Mormons apologise for baptising Simon Wiesenthal's parents.
There's little they could do that could be more offensive.
There's little they could do that could be more offensive.
[Rant] WTF, Mormons? Seriously?
- Thread starter DarkAudit
- Start date
- Status
The Mormon Church has a history of doing this. I frankly don't see the harm in it, as if you don't share the same beliefs, then it shouldn't matter what a group of people does in your name. And if you're dead, your odds of caring are even less. I view it as getting mad at someone for praying for you. If you think it's bullshit, then it doesn't matter what they do.
*edited to draw distinction between The Mormon Church as an organization, and all mormons as a group of people.
*edited to draw distinction between The Mormon Church as an organization, and all mormons as a group of people.
They have baptized EVERYBODY.
The Mormon Church is a horrible organization.
Dave
Staff member
Charlie and I agree on this. Their stances and activism against same-sex marriage, their infiltration of organizations to alter the direction (Boy Scouts are a great example) and other examples show that the church is very active in trying to steer our culture.
Not that they're any different from other religions. Most large religious organizations are far more evil than their individual parts. I know some wonderful Catholic priests but think the church itself is a study in evil wearing the costume of good.
Not that they're any different from other religions. Most large religious organizations are far more evil than their individual parts. I know some wonderful Catholic priests but think the church itself is a study in evil wearing the costume of good.
Sure is nice to pop in here and feel like I'm being assaulted for my beliefs.
Stay classy Halforums.
Stay classy Halforums.
Dave
Staff member
As I stated, the individuals are great, but the entity which runs it is not necessarily the most beneficial to society.
Added at: 08:14
I was attacking neither the beliefs of the church, nor it's individual members, but instead attacking the evil organization which has grown up behind (and frequently in contradiction with) these beliefs.
Added at: 08:14
I was attacking neither the beliefs of the church, nor it's individual members, but instead attacking the evil organization which has grown up behind (and frequently in contradiction with) these beliefs.
Necronic
Staff member
If you actually read the story I think it's sort of a neat idea, and something no other religion would do. Here's the premise: You choose a religion in life and only in death do you find out if you picked correctly, making it the nastiest shell game in existence. What the mormon's are doing is saying "Hey, if it turns out we were right and this is the religion you should be in when you get to heaven, we'll give you another shot to choose again." An important point is that the soul isn't forcibly babptised, it is offered the choice of babtism.
This is like compelte anathema to a lot of evangelical religions as it removes a lot of the reason for joining it because "hey, don't worry about joining us right now. You do what feels right and if you change your mind we'll give you another shot later on"
All that said, it's still pretty insensitive. I also wonder what the Morman interpretation of Jews being the children of god already thing that all of the other christian religions have (you don't have to evangelise to them because they are already saved.)
Also someone should link a picture of Mormon heaven from South Park
This is like compelte anathema to a lot of evangelical religions as it removes a lot of the reason for joining it because "hey, don't worry about joining us right now. You do what feels right and if you change your mind we'll give you another shot later on"
All that said, it's still pretty insensitive. I also wonder what the Morman interpretation of Jews being the children of god already thing that all of the other christian religions have (you don't have to evangelise to them because they are already saved.)
Also someone should link a picture of Mormon heaven from South Park
When people ask, "If there is one true church, then what kind of a just God would allow billions of people to be born, live, and die without ever knowing it?" our answer is that those ordinances necessary to live with God again are available to everyone, and that through proxy baptism and other ordinances those that die without knowledge of the church will be able to choose to accept or reject it after this life.
They do not become members of the church unless they accept the ordinance. So this only provides a choice, it doesn't force them into into the church.
We allow members to submit names of their ancestors to the church to have this ordinance performed for them. We do not allow them to submit names for people to whom they are not related, and we do not permit them to submit names of Holocaust Victims. There are many, many (many!) other restrictions on submissions as well, but those two pertain to this case in particular.
Of course the system is not perfect, and some misguided members of the church submit names inappropriately or in opposition to church policy. As technology improves, and as genealogical databases become more complete they build tools to make it more difficult to do this. Of course when this sort of abuse is discovered the names of those baptized improperly are removed from the records, which is essentially the same thing as having never had the ordinance performed.
They do not become members of the church unless they accept the ordinance. So this only provides a choice, it doesn't force them into into the church.
We allow members to submit names of their ancestors to the church to have this ordinance performed for them. We do not allow them to submit names for people to whom they are not related, and we do not permit them to submit names of Holocaust Victims. There are many, many (many!) other restrictions on submissions as well, but those two pertain to this case in particular.
Of course the system is not perfect, and some misguided members of the church submit names inappropriately or in opposition to church policy. As technology improves, and as genealogical databases become more complete they build tools to make it more difficult to do this. Of course when this sort of abuse is discovered the names of those baptized improperly are removed from the records, which is essentially the same thing as having never had the ordinance performed.
I think the catholic church, as huge as it is, is pretty damn corrupt. That doesn't mean I think catholics are, nor do I find fault in what they believe in (albeit I'm an atheist myself).
It's why I edited my original post. I don't like the Mormon Church at all, or their attempts to change or influence local and national laws to fit their viewpoints. But I have nothing against Mormons. Like I said before, I'm not religious, and aside from the criticisms I have against all religions, the mormon religion seems pretty harmless. Groups of people coming together with a focus on family and community certainly isn't a bad thing, and the mormons I've known personally have all been pretty great people.
Also, Donny Osmond is pretty cool.
Keep in mind that if one chooses not to live according the the principles of the gospel in life, they aren't likely to want to live them after death. So yes, while everyone will have the choice, it's very likely they'll make the same choice then that they do now. The time we spend on the earth is a blip in the perspective of eternity - if it's hard for one to live it for a handful of dozens of years, I can't imagine them wanting to live it for the rest of eternity.
It's worth letting the missionaries in the door for at least one visit - the first thing they'll talk to you about is God's nature and your relationship to Him. You can always tell them no for future visits.
You know who you should go talk to about this? Homosexuals in California who had their right to get married denied due to a massive influx of negative campaign money. I'm sure they enjoyed seeing bumper stickers and tv ads that assault them for their sexual preference. Want to guess where that money came from?
I've known a lot of Mormons in my life, and they are good people. As individuals. The church as an entity has done some bad things around here, though, and I'm not going to just give it a pass because some of its members are nice folks.
Hey I'm all for a religion that says I get to be the God of my own planet after death, filled with celestial wives to do my bidding.
Oh wait, that's only if you're a straight guy.
I sure hope you never tithe.
M
makare
The mormon missionaries that live next door haven't knocked on my door since I opened it without pants.I see this as a major win.
But the mailman has knocked every day.
There`s not a person alive that isn`t a hypocrite in some ways.
Youngling.
Added at: 19:38
Is there some requirement on their part that they have to get a certain number of people talked to? Because otherwise I don't see the point. Like wasting each other's time if the visited person has zero interest at all.
M
makare
I guess I am just kind of offended by the whole thing. i already have a relationship with God. I don't need a bunch of, well basically, spiritual homewreckers trying to tell me that my relationship with God isn't good enough. Frankly it pisses me off.
I like people, I dislike their organized religions. I prefer to be an athesist, and a godless monster(according to all my friends who let Jesus into their hearts)I was raised in a liberal Roman Catholic household, my folks are good people and I appreciate their beliefs, but the reality is years of catholic school and being dragged to church, being immersed in the Teachings of the J man just did nothing for me. My parents taught me to think, to rationalize my existance, and the idea of some cosmic jew watching my every action, to be told that thinking bad things is just as much of a sin as doing them is hilarious to me. It just doesnt do it for me, I dont feel any deep connection with god. You know what filled "the void" for me? Learning, understanding the universe through greater knowledge. Everytime a little more of reality's inner workings becomes clear to me the more I feel a kinship with the universe. I am not unhappy, but anytime anyone has the gaul to try to preach to me I feel less and less kinship with humanity. are we not all children of this planet no matter what we think? I guess I just dont get it and I never will. I think I am ok with that.
Try some lube.
I would have, but I'm pretty sure the church disapproves.
S
Soliloquy
Honestly, there are radical followers of any belief (religious, political, moral, environmental, etc.) that organize into crazy groups and do stupid stuff like that. It's not exclusive to religion.
- Status