[Movies] Avengers
- Thread starter evilmike
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Another spoilerific .gif
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The problem with the reviews that Charlie Don't Surf posted is that they miss something vital. The movie, if I can anthropomorphize it for a moment, knows these things. It embraces them. And rightfully so. They make them part of the story. That's what I meant when I said this movie was delightfully genre savvy. It knows it's telling a story that's been told a hundred times. It knows that you the viewer know the team is only being pulled apart to be pulled back together. It knows. It embraces these things. It internally jokes about them right there on the screen.
You know what bugs people about reviews like these? The reviewers seem to think they were the only ones who noticed. Guess what, NY Times reviewer: we ALL noticed those things. We ALL predicted the story. We ALL knew it before we bought our ticket. We ALL know it's a high budget film. The difference? We embraced it. So did Whedon and crew. They folded it right on in. It's your choice as a viewer. Stand outside in the rain and gripe that everyone at the party inside is a corporate shill, or realize they know exactly who's putting on the party, come in, and have the same old good time. You don't lose intelligence or your soul. And you certainly don't gain any indie points by standing outside griping.
You know what bugs people about reviews like these? The reviewers seem to think they were the only ones who noticed. Guess what, NY Times reviewer: we ALL noticed those things. We ALL predicted the story. We ALL knew it before we bought our ticket. We ALL know it's a high budget film. The difference? We embraced it. So did Whedon and crew. They folded it right on in. It's your choice as a viewer. Stand outside in the rain and gripe that everyone at the party inside is a corporate shill, or realize they know exactly who's putting on the party, come in, and have the same old good time. You don't lose intelligence or your soul. And you certainly don't gain any indie points by standing outside griping.
ElJuski
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Hell no. I have tons of indie points, and I don't get them by just being contrary.
Huh? There wasn't a meta bone in this movie's body.
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You were watching a completely different movie than the one I saw then. Almost every joke was a meta-joke. I would go so far as to say that Whedon has made a career out of the meta joke.
GasBandit
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The Hulk smashing Loki in mid villainous diatribe was definitely a lampooning of the "villain has to talk to the good guy and that's why he loses" trope. It is rarely so explicitly, unsubtly done.
Not after the Hulk was done with it!
Dang it, GB ninja'd me with words while I was searching for the gif link.
Ditto Coulson's experimental gun interaction with Loki.
I'm starting to wonder if Charlie is my film and culture teacher. He's a failed director who blames all the evil of the world on Hollywood. He's also the most pretentious prick I ever met.
He goes on and on about how Hollywood has brainwashed the public into thinking that everything has to have a happy ending. When I pointed out that literature has been doing this hundreds of years prior to film and mythology centuries before that, he just said "well of course things like twilight and harry potter are like that." Then refused to let me follow up on my point.
Had he let me continue, I would have cited Dickens, Shakespeare, greek mythology, etc...
God, that guy is a dick.
He goes on and on about how Hollywood has brainwashed the public into thinking that everything has to have a happy ending. When I pointed out that literature has been doing this hundreds of years prior to film and mythology centuries before that, he just said "well of course things like twilight and harry potter are like that." Then refused to let me follow up on my point.
Had he let me continue, I would have cited Dickens, Shakespeare, greek mythology, etc...
God, that guy is a dick.
don't put words in my mouth
As far as I could tell, he was putting words in his teacher's mouth.
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Pretty much everything that spilled out of Robert Downey Jr's mouth was a Genre Savvy joke.
Even if the movie itself wasn't meta, the audience certainly knew all of the same things that Mr. NY Times did. They just decided to embrace it. Critics like that think they're ringing the fire bell in desperation while everyone ignores it. But in truth, everyone else saw the fire for what it was and are busy making S'mores.
(I wonder how many of the analogies I can get out)
Even if the movie itself wasn't meta, the audience certainly knew all of the same things that Mr. NY Times did. They just decided to embrace it. Critics like that think they're ringing the fire bell in desperation while everyone ignores it. But in truth, everyone else saw the fire for what it was and are busy making S'mores.
(I wonder how many of the analogies I can get out)
Maybe Charlie is saying he IS my teacher? Thank god my final paper's already graded
Ugh. I had a film teacher just like that in my undergrad. I hated him so much I actually dropped the course. Is every film teacher like that? God, I hope not.
ElJuski
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Can we try not to completely shit on Charlie here?
On the meta-thing, there is so much meta in there. Comic-book convention meta, archetypal villainy meta (don't forget Scarlet Witch pulls that shit twice, too) and, just because they're not breaking the fourth wall and directly winking at the audience, Whedon always brings some sort of irreverence to the proceedings that gives it a hyper-aware pulp sensibility.
Again, the movie's not a masterpiece, but as a piece of "corporate" pop art, it does a smash-bang-good job.
On the meta-thing, there is so much meta in there. Comic-book convention meta, archetypal villainy meta (don't forget Scarlet Witch pulls that shit twice, too) and, just because they're not breaking the fourth wall and directly winking at the audience, Whedon always brings some sort of irreverence to the proceedings that gives it a hyper-aware pulp sensibility.
Again, the movie's not a masterpiece, but as a piece of "corporate" pop art, it does a smash-bang-good job.
You're doing fine. It's the same trouble Charlie has--a lack of understanding about how people feel and think.
I'll admit I posted those reviews from "those damned NEW YORK TIMES pretentious movie critics" just to rile y'all up, but my opinion is my opinion. I'm not secretly posting on google+ to my friends about how much I loved it. I'm having the same arguments with my closest friends about this dumb movie. tbh I can't wait until Anne Hathaway ODs and Dark Knight Rises is the new biggest movie blockbuster ever bla bla bla and we all talk about that.
Okay, first of all, what do you get out of riling us up? Because that's the kind of stuff that we've complained about you before: saying something just to get a reaction. It's kind of sad that you have to get entertainment from other people that way, honestly.
Which I assume is what you wanted from the Anne Hathaway OD'ing comment.
W
wana10
I think the issue charlie is you seem to have walked into the movie expecting to dislike it, and then surprise surprise you disliked it. When asked why you seem to say I dislike it because it's a blockbuster comic book film and the other people in the thread are saying, "no shit, avengers is a comic book movie? who woulda thunk it?"
It's not some deep artsy movie with layers upon layers of meaning and insight, but then again everyone knew that going in to it. And for what it was, a visual feel good extravaganza, it did its job admirably.
It's not some deep artsy movie with layers upon layers of meaning and insight, but then again everyone knew that going in to it. And for what it was, a visual feel good extravaganza, it did its job admirably.
I dunno. I'm a bad person, I guess.
The Anne Hathaway thing was just about how it seems like every couple months there's another "holy shit biggest movie ever" thing happening. Dark Knight Rises is the next contender for that, that was just a joke about Dark Knight being previous "biggest movie ever"
The Anne Hathaway thing was just about how it seems like every couple months there's another "holy shit biggest movie ever" thing happening. Dark Knight Rises is the next contender for that, that was just a joke about Dark Knight being previous "biggest movie ever"
I'd say mocking the death of a star and making jokes about another one dying points to you being the eensiest bit evil.
C'mon, just go whole hog and embrace it. It's definitely made shego happier.
ElJuski
Staff member
I don't always buy into hype and all that--hated Avatar, skipped Hunger Games for the forseeable future (until I break down and finally read the books my niece keeps harping about)--and I don't go watch movies in the theater often, so when a movie like Avengers or Dark Knight Rises is on the bubble, I genuinely get excited and want to go see the movie.
So sue me, I guess that makes me a drone, man.
So sue me, I guess that makes me a drone, man.
Here's the thing - I was excited to see The Avengers. I had heard the general buzz (yes, even I checked the RT score) and thought this was going to be the one that made the previous Marvel Films stuff worth it.
I'm a guy who generally hates the movie theater experience. People on their phones, little kids behind me talking or kicking my chair the whole time, asshole teenagers with laser pointers, etc. But this is one movie that I am more than willingly to put up with that crap to go see. Just waiting for my girl to get a day off soon so we can go see it. (I promised her I'd wait. Yes, I am whipped. )
)
figmentPez
Staff member
If you didn't consider the other Marvel flims "worth it" in and of themselves, I'm a little puzzled as to why you thought this one would change that. If you didn't get enough character development from each individual's movie, why did you think that they'd suddenly be able to flesh out more than a half-dozen heroes all at once?
Exactly what I was thinking.
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