[Rant] Villains whom you always wanted to win.

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Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

In any given fiction, we are supposed to root for the protagonist. They are the ones that we are supposed to relate to, the ones we are supposed to root for, and the ones we are supposed to like the most. But sometimes the antagonist is more interesting than the actual protagonist themselves. Sometimes you wonder if the writers got confused and mixed the protagonist with the antagonist. And that is why this topic is here, for all the lovable quirky and relatable villains that you just want to win once in a while. I'll begin.

Jesse and James: Ignoring their awesome entrance, they were the funnest part of the Pokemon cartoon especially in later seasons. While they work for the main bad-guy, ultimately they just working stiffs who just wanted respect. They were two schmucks who just wanted to get a leg up in the world and were distracted by a ten year old and his mutant rat(who becomes less powerful as the series went on). Also unlike the main protagonist, they had an actual realistic goal. They tried to capture Pokemon to be used by their terrorist organization. Ash on the other hand is wasting his life trying to be a Pokemon Master when in the entire series run he's only caught a little bit more than 50 pokemon. Keep in mind there are over 400 Pokemon. 14 seasons and he isn't any closer to being a Pokemon master than he was when he started. Hell, Jesse and James work payed off in the current season! They're legitimate villains now! They also stopped caring about capturing Pikachu and got on with their lives. Ash however is still obsessed with a goal he will never succeed in. Between the annoying ten year old who never changes, and the funny villains who've actually developed I'll go with Team Rocket's Jesse and James.

These are two characters who will always make me prepare for trouble, and make it double.
 
Cheesy1

Cheesy1

The Trix Rabbit.

He's always trying to steal other people's cereal, which I say makes him the villain of those commercials. And I know he did eventually get some Trix on a couple of occasions. But come on, the poor guy just wanted some damn fruit-flavored sugar spheres drowned in milk!

 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

PatrThom said:
Similar, but less...tidy. Yes, I think "tidy" is the word I want to use, there.

--Patrick
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...tidy? As in...less clean? As in...incredibly messed up? OKAY-I am definitely buying this when I get money again!

Another villain I wanted to win would be Doctor Doom. Now I could talk about how cool he is, talk about his back-story but I won't. But I WILL talk about how douchey Mr. Fantasic is. Mr. Fantastic actually hijacked a space-ship to experiment his bull-shit cosmic rays with 2 civilians who are neither trained in space travel or with cosmic rays. And after they all mutated(including his best friend) what does he call himself? Mr. Fantastic. Yeah, you are so fantastic. You are so special. And what's even worse is that he never goes to jail for his crimes! Spiderman had to deal with so much crap for his superhero antics and Mr. Fantastic never had to deal with the logical legal problems that someone in his situation would have. It would be one thing if he had a secret identity but he doesn't so it makes less sense. At least Dr. Doom was trying to ressurect his wife in his origin, what was Reed's excuse?
 
WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

I want Magneto to win. I can't speak for the comic book version of Magneto because I never really read them. I think the movie version of Magneto is more likable than the rest of the mutants or X-Men. It feels like he gets so close to having it all, but the rug is pulled out from under him when his fingertips brush victory. Poor Magneto. :(
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

I remember watching, when I was a wee lad, a really low-budget Chinese or Japanese film. It was about a group of monsters ravaging Earth, and how a team of heroes had to take them down one by one. I remember thinking the monsters were the coolest part of the movie, and every time one of them was defeated I went "Nooooo!"

And then I got all confused because I grew up on a steady diet of television cartoons, where the good guys are always supposed to win. I think this was my first experience of what it feels like to be confused about my black-and-white morality.

As for modern villains, I think someone as devilishly clever as Hans Landa deserved better than what he got at the end of Inglourious Basterds.
 
Wahad

Wahad

WasabiPoptart said:
I want Magneto to win. I can't speak for the comic book version of Magneto because I never really read them. I think the movie version of Magneto is more likable than the rest of the mutants or X-Men. It feels like he gets so close to having it all, but the rug is pulled out from under him when his fingertips brush victory. Poor Magneto. :(
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Also, he's Gandalf. Who doesn't want Gandalf to win?
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

WasabiPoptart said:
I want Magneto to win. I can't speak for the comic book version of Magneto because I never really read them. I think the movie version of Magneto is more likable than the rest of the mutants or X-Men. It feels like he gets so close to having it all, but the rug is pulled out from under him when his fingertips brush victory. Poor Magneto. :(
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It's even worse in the comics. At one point in time he was regressed to a child by Nanny and the Orphan Maker and Moira McTaggert messed with his mind. She essentially messed with him with some super science stuff to make him not evil. The problem being, he's not necessarily evil, just extreme in his methods and convictions. It didn't end well.

This is what led to the infamous scene where he sucks the adamantium out of Wolverine's skeleton.
 
WasabiPoptart

WasabiPoptart

Bowielee said:
he's not necessarily evil, just extreme in his methods and convictions.
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That is exactly how I feel about him, but I didn't want to say it in my OP because I only know the character from the movies and I figured he might be portrayed differently in the comic book stories. He does what he deems necessary to reach his goal while upholding high personal standards of what is wrong and right - and I don't see that as evil. But it isn't what most people necessarily perceive as good either.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

He's perceived as evil because he doesn't necessarily care if there are human casualties so long as mutant kind succeeds and thrives. He's taken a mutant vs human stance, mostly because humans have tried to kill him and his people.

If you're an ordinary human, he appears as a terrorist. But if you're a mutant that's been hunted simply due to your genetics, he seems like a savior.

Of course, I think "Fuck you, I can blast lasers from my eyes!" is a pretty reasonable attitude.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

I've always wanted Magneto to win just on the off chance he'd beat the crap out of Cyclops! You know you have to a big ass-wipe when a guy who runs a club called the brotherhood of evil mutants is more likable than you.

Another guy I've always wanted to win is Lex Luthor. Not because I hate the man of steel, I love the guy. I just always wanted Lex to win because beating Superman should be easy as hell for him! I mean come on, how can anyone with a genius intellect like him NOT figure out who Superman is in this century! For christ's sake, facial recognition software! Hack into a main-frame and find the closest match! And even so, if he were to use Kryptonite radiation in more creative ways he'd be easy to deal away with. Some kryptonite flesh renderers or maybe entire feilds of radiation! He has probably the most exploitable weakness ever and Lex Still hasn't found a way to kill him. I know the real reason is because the good is supposed to win, but from a writing stand-point it just stops making sense after a while.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Every Care Bears villain ever. Mostly because I fully support whoever wants to kill these evil little bears and the evil black magic. They can seriously MAKE you care about something! That's freaking brain-washing right there!
 
Chad Sexington

Chad Sexington

Lex Luthor is basically Batman. He's an obsessive, reclusive billionaire with connections and gadgets out the wazoo fighting an alien invader so that he can provide for humanity with the Kryptonian technology that Superman selfishly keeps hidden in the Arctic fucking circle. So, yes, maybe he wants to turn a profit, but that's only evil if you view Superman as a Communist. That's the real lesson of Superman: you're all a bunch of commies.

For real, though: Voldemort. Fuck Harry. Just... just fuck that guy.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Chad Sexington said:
Lex Luthor is basically Batman. He's an obsessive, reclusive billionaire with connections and gadgets out the wazoo fighting an alien invader so that he can provide for humanity with the Kryptonian technology that Superman selfishly keeps hidden in the Arctic fucking circle. So, yes, maybe he wants to turn a profit, but that's only evil if you view Superman as a Communist. That's the real lesson of Superman: you're all a bunch of commies.

For real, though: Voldemort. Fuck Harry. Just... just fuck that guy.
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It is kind-of weird how a guy who is basically wizard Hitler is more interesting than the main character. Still love the books but if ol' Riddle won I could see it.

And yeah why does Supes keep his tech in the fortress of solitude? Doesn't he think that would help man-kind at all? Christ Superman, get it together.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Dr. Impossible from Soon I Will Be Invincible. It's hard not to sympathize with the man after you spend the entire book hearing his side of the story (especially considering he's legitimately mentally ill). I swear, you will root for this man the entire time he's battling in the finale, if only because this time... maybe this time... he will get what he deserves. It's especially thrilling because his arch nemesis is an unrepentant douche bag who deserves all the hate Dr. Impossible gives him.

The reveal at the end (that the guy he'd been hunting his entire life has NO IDEA who he is) and that he actually HAD had a relationship with the girl he'd been pinning for all these years (though she never told him it was her) just makes the entire thing tragic. So when he breaks out at the end, you can't help but hope that this time he turns his life around.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Neat, sounds like a serious Doctor Horrible. Whom I also rooted for.

At times Venom, because Spiderman can be really hard to sympathize with a guy so damned annoying at times. Especially since even when Venom is actually doing good Spiderman still messed with him when he moved to San Fran. He is posessed by a crazy alien symbiote! Cut him some damned slack!
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Yoshimickster said:
Neat, sounds like a serious Doctor Horrible. Whom I also rooted for.

At times Venom, because Spiderman can be really hard to sympathize with a guy so damned annoying at times. Especially since even when Venom is actually doing good Spiderman still messed with him when he moved to San Fran. He is posessed by a crazy alien symbiote! Cut him some damned slack!
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I actually came in to say Dr. Horrible...even though he technically won. And I wouldn't want Venom to win because like the Joker, he would be unpredictably evil. I don't mind when a villain wins every once in a while, but some of them would just be bad, bad, bad.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

I never needed to want him to win:

[DOUBLEPOST=1346770426][/DOUBLEPOST]
twitchmoss said:
also this guy.

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Sorry, but i cant root for a guy that's always way enough in front to be able to stop to lay idiotic traps more then once per race and yet it never occurs to him to just keep his lead and win the race that way...
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Dave I can respect that. I still want him to win at times but if he did he'd just turn straight up evil rather than having the moral dilemma of being right in the middle of the spectrum. Though it would make a neat what-if story.

Another one I've always wanted to win, Jason. Now I can understand them reopening a summer camp with a crazy past ONCE but doing it again? Wh-why? And who would be actually stupid enough to accept a job where almost all of the previous work staff were murdered? These dumb kids DESERVE to be killed by Jason. I'd also like to think in some horribly messed up way that Jason is an example of good karma working. He was a disfigured probably retarded kid who drowned to death because of negligent horny teenagers. And how does the universe repay him? By making him an awesome super powered zombie that's how! As dumb as some of the movies could be, Jason is probably one of the coolest franchise villains that have ever existed and I always root for him. I don't care how sick I sound rooting for a serial killing zombie, Jason is just that cool.
 
Norris

Norris

Morris Day. Not the actual musician, the character he played in Purple Rain and its sequel Graffiti Bridge that shared his name. In Purple Rain, he really isn't much more of a dick than The Kid (Prince's character) is and his big villainous plot, start an all girl's singing group to take The Revolution's place at the First Avenue club, isn't all that villainous. The Kid doesn't show up for meetings with the owner, works out his personal issues on stage in a way that loses him audience, plays one song before splitting at one point,and generally deserves to lose his spot at the club through most of the film. Morris just offers the owner an alternative, the most dickish part of it being that he hires The Kid's girlfriend to headline his group. The most "evil" things Morris does in the film are 1) Dumping a girl by having his sidekick Jerome toss her into a dumpster and 2) teasing The Kid about his father's suicide attempt (which he immediately regrets). Arguably, he is trying to steal/seduce Apollonia but I think The Kid pretty effectively killed that relationship when he backhanded her across the face for daring a join a band that would compete with his.

In Graffiti Bridge, Prince (who wrote and directed this time around) did a much better job of making Morris a villain. He basically runs The Time as a combination musical group/organized crime syndicate and he spends most of the movie trying to strong arm his business partners (he's co-owner of the four nightclubs in the Seven Corners neighborhood) into signing over full ownership of their bars to him. There's also a rather date rapey seen where he gets the film's love interest (Aura) drunk, takes her home with him, and kind of maybe casts a spell on her to fall in love with the first person she sees when awaking. After that, during a bit where the lights in his living room are cut off momentarily, he and Jerome try to feel her up but only succeed in fondling each other. This happens because The Kid followed them, broke into Morris' house, kidnapped Aura, took her back to his place, and...came within literal inches of feeling up her chest. So yeah. I end up rooting against Morris Day and The Time when they're trying to strong arm Melody Cool (played by Mavis Staples) and George (played by George Clinton) out their club. When he's battling The Kid, who is portrayed as driving away customers with inaccessible music (so...Prince in the 90's) and owning his club 50/50 with Morris despite treating Morris like a meddling outsider, I kind of root for him. Especially since his outright criminal acts against The Kid, attempting to bomb the club and later wrecking up the New Power Generation's instruments, do fuck all to actually disrupt business or the band's ability to play.
 
Eriol

Eriol

Dr. Claw. Gadget was just such and idiot, I never liked him. His niece and DOG are the ones that actually "Get it together" well enough to actually thwart Claw's plans, but I was always kinda rooting for him to win for once.

And ya, Xanatos was cool.
 
Zappit

Zappit

Staff member
The Monarch. Funniest villain in years, with such a pathetic origin story. Rusty Venture is such a dick that he pretty much deserves the shit The Monarch gives him, even if we'll never know why he's doing it in the first place.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Johnny the Homicidal maniac. Now I know he's technically an anti-hero but to just about everyone in his universe he's a villain. Now if you read the series you'd think the ending was a good note for old C? Well...its debatable. The series didn't really end on a good or bad note it just ended. It really just ends with him saying he's going on a trip in order to find himself and I guess thats okay but it leaves me and most likely other readers with a feeling of wonder as to what his new adventures would be? AND WE'LL NEVER KNOW- because Jhonen Vasquez has yet to make a sequel to the original series! Hell, its not so much I want to see him win but more or less see him have a true ultimate out-come because that is life! His freaking spin-off character has a true ending, why the hell doesn't he?
 
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