a Trump vs Clinton United States Presidential Election in 2016
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
Hillary Clinton has been fighting ISIS since October 26, 1947.
On the one hand, clearly her strategies are shit. OTOH you have to admire the foresight and dedication that drives a newborn into six decades of war-planning.
On the one hand, clearly her strategies are shit. OTOH you have to admire the foresight and dedication that drives a newborn into six decades of war-planning.
Clinton brings human stories, Trump has properties in every talking point town. It's like they speak different languages.
Also repeating "law & order" over and over when AfAms are brought up is sort of dogwhistly, and he probably knows that.
Great, Trump and Clinton agree on taking more rights away from people on no-fly lists. Ah, I wonder if they'll have sweaty authoritarian sex on stage next.
Also repeating "law & order" over and over when AfAms are brought up is sort of dogwhistly, and he probably knows that.
Great, Trump and Clinton agree on taking more rights away from people on no-fly lists. Ah, I wonder if they'll have sweaty authoritarian sex on stage next.
Necronic
Staff member
Clinton's missing a lot of easy hits here. Early on Trump was hammering her about spending 30 years and not achieving anything. Later on she talked about how he hadn't paid federal income taxes in years, something he actually admitted to. That right there should have been synthesized and brought together.
I don't see her coming out on top with this one. His freeform style works well with his base. If she got off the leash a bit, if she can go off the leash and still stay on point, I think she would destroy him.
My fear walking into this debate was that we would see something similar to poker. Seasoned poker players often think that rookies can be the most dangerous because they play recklessly. They play in a way that can set fire to a table, burning themselves in the process sure, but also burning everyone else. Trump's the same way. He doesn't follow any of the rules and, while in the long run (like in a presidency ffs) it will cause serious problems. But in one round of poker he can run riot.
She's going to have to pivot in the next debates and take him out in the long game.
I don't see her coming out on top with this one. His freeform style works well with his base. If she got off the leash a bit, if she can go off the leash and still stay on point, I think she would destroy him.
My fear walking into this debate was that we would see something similar to poker. Seasoned poker players often think that rookies can be the most dangerous because they play recklessly. They play in a way that can set fire to a table, burning themselves in the process sure, but also burning everyone else. Trump's the same way. He doesn't follow any of the rules and, while in the long run (like in a presidency ffs) it will cause serious problems. But in one round of poker he can run riot.
She's going to have to pivot in the next debates and take him out in the long game.
Zappit
Staff member
Anyone else notice how twitchy Trump is tonight? How often he's going to the water glass? What's wrong with his health? Is it neurological? Release the medical records, Donald!
I really hope he gets hammered on his "fighting ISIS your entire adult life" comment tomorrow. That was just profoundly stupid.
I really hope he gets hammered on his "fighting ISIS your entire adult life" comment tomorrow. That was just profoundly stupid.
Charitably, ISIS is just the latest in a string of opposing organizations spurred by a game of Uncle between the West and the Middle East. Isolationism might actually serve to cut the U.S.' losses.
Probably just being an idiot that can't make nuanced talking points, though.
Necronic
Staff member
In fairness to him he would be a complete idiot to not be nervous. This is her arena, 100%. The problem is that she's not dominating like she should, and he's not slipping up as much as he should. She's coming across too stilted.
Necronic
Staff member
I will say this, Trump should stop nodding constantly, especially when she attacks him on something. Like doing business with Gadaffi. He shouldn't nod to that ffs. This man is a political walking abortion.[DOUBLEPOST=1474942754,1474942710][/DOUBLEPOST]
It's not as exciting as I expected tbh. I'm still waiting for a shitstorm and it hasn't happened yet.[DOUBLEPOST=1474942931][/DOUBLEPOST]ok now he's just being fucking incoherent about his record on the iraq war.[DOUBLEPOST=1474943000][/DOUBLEPOST]That was some funny shit. I take back my shitstorm comment. He's shitting himself publicly right now.
guys I'm gonna live tweet this shit.
It's not as exciting as I expected tbh. I'm still waiting for a shitstorm and it hasn't happened yet.[DOUBLEPOST=1474942931][/DOUBLEPOST]ok now he's just being fucking incoherent about his record on the iraq war.[DOUBLEPOST=1474943000][/DOUBLEPOST]That was some funny shit. I take back my shitstorm comment. He's shitting himself publicly right now.
guys I'm gonna live tweet this shit.
Necronic
Staff member
"my strongest asset by far, is my temperment"
Wow, that whole string was...pretty bad. But to end on that?[DOUBLEPOST=1474943410,1474943057][/DOUBLEPOST]Trump just commented on the absurdity of our aged B52 fleet.
Uhhh those have been retired for 30 years.
Commander in Chief?[DOUBLEPOST=1474943571][/DOUBLEPOST]Ok, she's found her stride now. He brought all his heavy hitters to the board and now he doesn't have much more. Him saying he would potentially walk away from our defense of our east asian partners was not smart. And she pounced on that quite well.
Wow, that whole string was...pretty bad. But to end on that?[DOUBLEPOST=1474943410,1474943057][/DOUBLEPOST]Trump just commented on the absurdity of our aged B52 fleet.
Uhhh those have been retired for 30 years.
Commander in Chief?[DOUBLEPOST=1474943571][/DOUBLEPOST]Ok, she's found her stride now. He brought all his heavy hitters to the board and now he doesn't have much more. Him saying he would potentially walk away from our defense of our east asian partners was not smart. And she pounced on that quite well.
He walked right into the stamina line , henh.
Necronic
Staff member
I will say that I don't think this will change the mind of any hardcore trump supporters. But for moderates this does not look well for him. He's on the ropes right now, hard.[DOUBLEPOST=1474943781,1474943737][/DOUBLEPOST]
ah ok, my bad there. Quick fact checking, poorly done on my part. Thankfully I have a day job.
Necronic
Staff member
Actually instead of defending my mistatement of B-52s, I should follow Trump's lead and just say
"Wrong"
"I didn't say that"
"Lies"
Frankly there's no record of my comments on the B52 fleet. Maybe you should call Sean Hannity, why doesn't anyone call him[DOUBLEPOST=1474943918,1474943871][/DOUBLEPOST]He started strong but he ended quite weakly tonight.[DOUBLEPOST=1474944026][/DOUBLEPOST]"The vice presidential debate follows on...."
Dude seriously no one gives a flying fuck
"Wrong"
"I didn't say that"
"Lies"
Frankly there's no record of my comments on the B52 fleet. Maybe you should call Sean Hannity, why doesn't anyone call him[DOUBLEPOST=1474943918,1474943871][/DOUBLEPOST]He started strong but he ended quite weakly tonight.[DOUBLEPOST=1474944026][/DOUBLEPOST]"The vice presidential debate follows on...."
Dude seriously no one gives a flying fuck
He's talking about himself and she's talking about him. I think this debate got away from her, and she will do better in later debate formats that allow less direct interaction between the two.
I'm really surprised he didn't bring up the insecure private email server during the cyber security portion, would have been an easy toss.
He's driving the debate (interrupting, redirecting the discussion, hogging the time) and talking a lot more than she is.
Having not paid any attention to the two speaking prior to tonight, it really does appear that while his content is severely lacking, his charisma is very strong. Her content is strong, but her charisma is low. Of course that has roots in sexism, though. She cannot be the bulldog without lowering her charisma due to her sex and our society's sexism.
The moderator wasn't able to rein in trump, particularly right at the end.
Still can't stand either, but at least I understand why the polling has them so even despite trumps obvious failings.
I'm really surprised he didn't bring up the insecure private email server during the cyber security portion, would have been an easy toss.
He's driving the debate (interrupting, redirecting the discussion, hogging the time) and talking a lot more than she is.
Having not paid any attention to the two speaking prior to tonight, it really does appear that while his content is severely lacking, his charisma is very strong. Her content is strong, but her charisma is low. Of course that has roots in sexism, though. She cannot be the bulldog without lowering her charisma due to her sex and our society's sexism.
The moderator wasn't able to rein in trump, particularly right at the end.
Still can't stand either, but at least I understand why the polling has them so even despite trumps obvious failings.
Necronic
Staff member
Yeah, I won't disagree with Steinman. This should have been an absolute slam dunk. I honestly think Sanders could have filetted him on stage. Clinton held her ground, but I don't think she gained too much ground. He had some worst moments that were far beyond anything she had. His frankly strange rambling about the Iraq war. Her slamming him to the ground for preparation. His comments (and hers) about not backing our east asian partners. The final moments where they talked about his repeated disrespect of women.
But I don't think it matters. He didn't poop the sheets as hard as he could have been, and she didn't gut him as hard as she needed. By any standard measure over the last hundred years she smoked him like a kipper (and would have called him in the morning). But this election is so....sadly different. She can't just win. She has to eviscreate him and leave blood on the mat.
But I don't think it matters. He didn't poop the sheets as hard as he could have been, and she didn't gut him as hard as she needed. By any standard measure over the last hundred years she smoked him like a kipper (and would have called him in the morning). But this election is so....sadly different. She can't just win. She has to eviscreate him and leave blood on the mat.
that debate didn't depress me as much as I was fearing
I am shocked that she did not hammer him for being incoherent.
Necronic
Staff member
Who you gonna call?
Sean Hannity![DOUBLEPOST=1474944658,1474944603][/DOUBLEPOST]
Sean Hannity![DOUBLEPOST=1474944658,1474944603][/DOUBLEPOST]
She didn't have to. He handed her that. She just got to sit there and watch him implode. She did follow with something though I thought?
I think Hillary did well. She couldn't go after Trump too much because it would come across as "naggy" (not saying its right, but thats how it is). I thought the moderator did a pretty lousy job. He didn't speak up to take control when either of the candidates kept going over. Trump looked awful. I honestly expected him to stay more composed than that, but while I thought he started ok enough, he really unravelled. It probably won't sway many peoples' votes but Hillary pretty clearly "won" that.
Necronic
Staff member
You know this is a really good point. Really good. blotsfan has the best points.
No but for real. It's not actually possible to judge Hillary by the same standard that we would have held other candidates to, and it's because she's a woman. I think that was a very difficult line to walk, and I didn't think about it at all. Good observation.
Just some random political quotes I just found elsewhere.
I didn't think I'd miss Bush, but man, I do. Come back, Bush, you weren't as bad as I thought, I've seen how bad it can be.
Necronic
Staff member
Just like your claims about my B52 comments?[DOUBLEPOST=1474946067,1474946031][/DOUBLEPOST]
Give republicans enough time and they'll make you wish for Trump
So does cyber terrorism involve a robe and wizard hat?
Here's NPR's annotated debate transcript if anyone wants to read it.