Adventures in the Social Security Office OR How I almost got arrested today.

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TotalFusionOne

Visit your local Social Security office. No seriously, go do it. It's a hoot.

My card was shredded by my four year old right before I left Florida so I needed to get a replacement. After finding the aptly named SS Office I began the worst two hours of my recent history. Upon entering I was in a room with about 60 other people all holding numbers that they got from a computer screen on the FAR side of the room from the entrance. After making my way through the crowd, I navigated the menu and got my number: 364.

I found a good spot on the wall to lean, and heard the next number called almost immediately.

"325"

Oh boy, okay. This isn't so bad. I'll just whip out my internet abled phone and start browsing the interwebz. I was just about to when I noticed a large sign on the wall that read:

ABSOLUTELY NO CELL PHONES IN USE WHILE IN THIS GOVERNMENT BUILDING

"That's... Odd," I thought. But whatever, I can deal with long waits. Then the next number was called "H61." Wait, what? H? I don't have an H in my number... Before I could ask about it, another number was called "41?" And then it hit me: They had THREE separate number sequences running concurrently depending on what you wanted to do at the office. And, instead of doing something like colour coding or dividing digits they just ran three separate sets of numbers. Well this was going to be fun. I began to look for a place to wait out my time.

Two security guards were sitting at a desk and I edged my way over just so I could see/hear anything going on if shit went down. And then shit went down. You see, they had hand sanitizer stations set up all around the waiting room with signs saying if you had any of the following symptoms please leave immediately and use their helpful website or phone number. On the list of symptoms was "Dry cough" and, apparently, someone had to cough. And when they did one of the security guards walked over and escorted them out.

Wut.

This happened again while I was there, but the worst was yet to come. About 5 minutes after arriving someone who had not seen the cell phone sign got a call and started talking on their phone. This caused the smaller of the guards to yell "TURN OFF YOUR PHONES OR YOU WILL BE ESCORTED OUT." The woman left and that was that for about 30 minutes.

Then someone elses phone went off.

No one would cop to it. The phone got silenced and the guard yelled again. Then started walking around the room ASKING US TO PULL OUT OUR CELL PHONES TO SHOW THAT THEY WERE TURNED OFF. "What the hell?" I thought. He got mostly around the room and was all the way back to me.

"Sir, do you have a cell phone?"
"Yes, sir."
"Please show it to me, sir."
"No, sir. I don't consent to being searched. I've done nothing wrong.

I don't think the guard expected that, but I grew up in the hood. I knew my rights. I hadn't done anything wrong and, legalities of whether or not it was even right that they could compel me to not use my phone, I knew that I didn't need to show him it to prove my "Innocence."

"Sir, show me your phone now or I'm going to lead you out of here in handcuffs."
"I'm not going to show you my phone. I haven't done anything wrong"

And... That was that. He just moved on to the person next to me and asked to see their phone. And finished up the room. I really feel violated by what was happening, not to mention that so many people willfully just whipped out their cell phone because someone in a Uniform told them to. Now I've already talked about this with quite a few people and some of them say that I should have just done it because it didn't inconvenience me since I was following the rules. But I'm interested to get a few more perspectives on these events.
 
I am surprised that more people didn't protest to showing their cell phones. It's like when your at WalMart or Target or somewhere and they ask to see your receipt on the way out. So many people just go ahead and whip out their receipts. I am like why? I didn't make any agreement to let you do any type of search on me. And by law they have no authority to make you show your receipt unless you signed an agreement saying they could (Costco, Sams Club, etc) but so many people do it just to avoid a situation. But it is a violation of our rights that way too many people throw away to save a few seconds.
 
T

TotalFusionOne

1)I am know is odd to say it, but that was a anti-climax ending
2)"violated" really??
vi⋅o⋅late

 /ˈvaɪ
əˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [vahy-uh-leyt] Show IPA Use Violated in a Sentence

See web results for Violated

See images of Violated

–verb (used with object), -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing. 1. to break, infringe, or transgress (a law, rule, agreement, promise, instructions, etc.). 2. to break in upon or disturb rudely; interfere thoughtlessly with: to violate his privacy. 3. to break through or pass by force or without right: to violate a frontier. 4. to treat irreverently or disrespectfully; desecrate; profane: violate a human right. 5. to molest sexually, esp. to rape.
Okay, well I felt 1, 2, and 3. 4 would be a stretch and, had he been nicer, he was cute enough that 5 wouldn't have been an issue.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
I am surprised that more people didn't protest to showing their cell phones. It's like when your at WalMart or Target or somewhere and they ask to see your receipt on the way out. So many people just go ahead and whip out their receipts. I am like why? I didn't make any agreement to let you do any type of search on me. And by law they have no authority to make you show your receipt unless you signed an agreement saying they could (Costco, Sams Club, etc) but so many people do it just to avoid a situation. But it is a violation of our rights that way too many people throw away to save a few seconds.
Because it is so terrible to show a piece of paper to someone.

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

1)I am know is odd to say it, but that was a anti-climax ending
2)"violated" really??
vi⋅o⋅late

 /ˈvaɪ
əˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [vahy-uh-leyt] Show IPA Use Violated in a Sentence

See web results for Violated

See images of Violated

–verb (used with object), -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing. 1. to break, infringe, or transgress (a law, rule, agreement, promise, instructions, etc.). 2. to break in upon or disturb rudely; interfere thoughtlessly with: to violate his privacy. 3. to break through or pass by force or without right: to violate a frontier. 4. to treat irreverently or disrespectfully; desecrate; profane: violate a human right. 5. to molest sexually, esp. to rape.
Okay, well I felt 1, 2, and 3. 4 would be a stretch and, had he been nicer, he was cute enough that 5 wouldn't have been an issue.[/QUOTE]
See, now that is a story that would have a nice climax ;)
 
S

Steven Soderburgin

well, it could lead to some dangerous situations depending on what you're buying and the disposition of the person looking at your receipt, plus fuck them walmart dude ain't gotta know that i bought shakespeare in love on dvd, chips and salsa, and a case of shiner black
 
I am surprised that more people didn't protest to showing their cell phones. It's like when your at WalMart or Target or somewhere and they ask to see your receipt on the way out. So many people just go ahead and whip out their receipts. I am like why? I didn't make any agreement to let you do any type of search on me. And by law they have no authority to make you show your receipt unless you signed an agreement saying they could (Costco, Sams Club, etc) but so many people do it just to avoid a situation. But it is a violation of our rights that way too many people throw away to save a few seconds.
Because it is so terrible to show a piece of paper to someone.[/QUOTE]



No it's not terrible to show a piece of paper. What is terrible is the fact that they are practically accusing everyone of shoplifting. Now I know there are people who do steal and places want to keep it to a minimum but I sis not steal anything and yet they act like I did. It's bad enough when I go to a store and I get followed around like I am going to steal something. But when they actually make me show my receipt they are practically calling me a thief to my face.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
well, it could lead to some dangerous situations depending on what you're buying and the disposition of the person looking at your receipt, plus fuck them walmart dude ain't gotta know that i bought shakespeare in love on dvd, chips and salsa, and a case of shiner black
I understand that is a right to keep this kind of information private, I just don't gonna act like if they are trying to get my social security number or find out my most dark secrets (that is your case kiss).
 
S

Steven Soderburgin

oh yeah ain't like you're givin em your bank account info, but still

also what dark secret
 
I'm curious why they don't allow cellphones. They're already making people suffer through waiting in hellishly long lines.
 
T

TotalFusionOne

I am surprised that more people didn't protest to showing their cell phones. It's like when your at WalMart or Target or somewhere and they ask to see your receipt on the way out. So many people just go ahead and whip out their receipts. I am like why? I didn't make any agreement to let you do any type of search on me. And by law they have no authority to make you show your receipt unless you signed an agreement saying they could (Costco, Sams Club, etc) but so many people do it just to avoid a situation. But it is a violation of our rights that way too many people throw away to save a few seconds.
Because it is so terrible to show a piece of paper to someone.[/quote]



No it's not terrible to show a piece of paper. What is terrible is the fact that they are practically accusing everyone of shoplifting. Now I know there are people who do steal and places want to keep it to a minimum but I sis not steal anything and yet they act like I did. It's bad enough when I go to a store and I get followed around like I am going to steal something. But when they actually make me show my receipt they are practically calling me a thief to my face.[/QUOTE]

THIS. This is my issue with it. I don't stop at Home Depot anymore because they used to enforce this policy. Every time I do something where I need that kind of store I make sure it's ANYTHING but home depot, and immediately ask to speak to the manager and thank them for NOT making me show my receipt when I exit.

I also try to avoid wal mart when at all possible. I have been asked not to return to one because I kept walking after the buzzer went off and was confronted by the manager in the parking lot. I explained that he didn't have a policy about receipt checking hanging up on the way in, and that he had no right to treat me like a thief but I would have no problem not returning to that location.

Think about it: Would you invite people over to your house and ask them to turn out their pockets to make sure they didn't steal your silverware? It's just good customer service to treat your guests like guests. Not to mention that it's an illegal detention if they say you can't go.
 
M

makare

"please show it to me" is not a search. it was just a question from an authority figure.
 
S

Steven Soderburgin

I'd probably ask them to turn out their pockets if my silverware detection grid went off as they were walking out the door.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
I am surprised that more people didn't protest to showing their cell phones. It's like when your at WalMart or Target or somewhere and they ask to see your receipt on the way out. So many people just go ahead and whip out their receipts. I am like why? I didn't make any agreement to let you do any type of search on me. And by law they have no authority to make you show your receipt unless you signed an agreement saying they could (Costco, Sams Club, etc) but so many people do it just to avoid a situation. But it is a violation of our rights that way too many people throw away to save a few seconds.
Because it is so terrible to show a piece of paper to someone.[/quote]



No it's not terrible to show a piece of paper. What is terrible is the fact that they are practically accusing everyone of shoplifting. Now I know there are people who do steal and places want to keep it to a minimum but I sis not steal anything and yet they act like I did. It's bad enough when I go to a store and I get followed around like I am going to steal something. But when they actually make me show my receipt they are practically calling me a thief to my face.[/QUOTE]

THIS. This is my issue with it. I don't stop at Home Depot anymore because they used to enforce this policy. Every time I do something where I need that kind of store I make sure it's ANYTHING but home depot, and immediately ask to speak to the manager and thank them for NOT making me show my receipt when I exit.

I also try to avoid wal mart when at all possible. I have been asked not to return to one because I kept walking after the buzzer went off and was confronted by the manager in the parking lot. I explained that he didn't have a policy about receipt checking hanging up on the way in, and that he had no right to treat me like a thief but I would have no problem not returning to that location.

Think about it: Would you invite people over to your house and ask them to turn out their pockets to make sure they didn't steal your silverware? It's just good customer service to treat your guests like guests. Not to mention that it's an illegal detention if they say you can't go.[/QUOTE]

Good lord. And I was thinking that I over-sensitive.

So you are complaing that people that don't know you might consider possible that you are capable what thousands of teenages brats do everyday?
 
T

TotalFusionOne

Makare, I don't see where I said it was a search? I DID tell him that I didn't consent to being searched, but that was more of a tack on to the fact that I was refusing to show him the phone and if he physically restrained me and looked for it that I had made my non-consent audibly known... But I didn't call what he was attempting to do a search...
 
He asked you to show a receipt. Oh horrors! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! You can have my receipt when you pull it from my COLD, DEAD HANDS!

Having worked retail myself, I know that shoplifting isn't an uncommon occurrence. Checking a receipt is just like checking somebody's ID when they're making a credit card or check purchase. Or do you freak out when somebody asks for that too?
 
M

makare

I dont see what made you think he was going to search you. The poor guy just wanted people to turn their phones off which seems nigh impossible for people to do these days.

The fourth amendment is by far my favorite and the one i think the most important but seriously.
 

Shannow

Staff member
I guess i can understand the always checking receipt thing you do not like, though really, you are being over-sensative and assholish, since it is a private store, but meh, you can take your business elsewhere, which you do...fine.


But let me get this straight: in one occurance, you set off a theft detector, and they asked for a receipt because of it...and this also pissed you off? Wow.


Good to know, you are a dick. Congrats on that.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
He asked you to show a receipt. Oh horrors! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! You can have my receipt when you pull it from my COLD, DEAD HANDS!

Having worked retail myself, I know that shoplifting isn't an uncommon occurrence.
thanks

I really don't see, how "Can I see you receipt?" equals "YOU ARE FILTHY HONORLESS THIEFY GIVE ME BACK OUR STUFF!?!" that TF1 seems to implies it means.

Actually, it makes me suspicious of him...

...also, the silverware example is rather... stupid. If I am going to invite anyone to my house it will be a friend/family or someone that is friend/family of a friend/family, there is a level of conection, stores have to deal with complete strangers, at best, regular costumers and in a much larger scale than any house party, and do that as a way of earning money. I doubt that there will be that many "silverware thieves" in may parties to give me financial problems anyway.
 
Q

Qonas

After finding the aptly named SS Office... I really feel violated
I'm curious as to the reasoning why showing a security guard your cell phone is turned off warrants comparing them to genocidal political thugs and leaves you feeling dirty and violated. It's a non-issue.
 
C

Chibibar

well, I can see where totalfusionone is going with this one. I mean lots of people are getting complacent. It is not the act itself, but how people will just do "anything" to avoid trouble and when it will stop?

at Disney World, everyone with a bag is subject to search (the bag) refuse, and you don't go into the park.
 
Q

Qonas

It's SHOWING A TURNED OFF CELL PHONE.

It's not turning your head while Jews dig a mass grave then get shot in it.
 
T

TotalFusionOne

He asked you to show a receipt. Oh horrors! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! You can have my receipt when you pull it from my COLD, DEAD HANDS!

Having worked retail myself, I know that shoplifting isn't an uncommon occurrence. Checking a receipt is just like checking somebody's ID when they're making a credit card or check purchase. Or do you freak out when somebody asks for that too?
Actually, it's against VISA's licensing to ask for a photo ID if the card is signed. And, if the card ISN'T signed, you are required to reject it out of hand since the user agreement specifically states that the binding contract is the signature on the card itself. I worked at a restaurant near Disney which lost their free CC auth for VISA cards after a VISA employee used an unsigned card.

A check has no such restrictions, so no of course I wouldnt' have a problem with that. And having been a manager for CVS I know how prolific shoplifting really is, and how to stop it. Pretty much the bottom of the list is "Check receipts against the actual merch in the cart at the door."

I dont see what made you think he was going to search you. The poor guy just wanted people to turn their phones off which seems nigh impossible for people to do these days.

The fourth amendment is by far my favorite and the one i think the most important but seriously.
The "poor guy" had already refused to let two people apply/change/manage their SS card because of a cough. A government employee denied a citizen the right to manage a piece of information required for most employment opportunities (Not to mention housing, drivers license, medicare etc.. etc...) at the citizens convenience based on a coughs and a cell phone. The "poor guy" also signed up for this job, agreed to the duties entailed to the job, and knows exactly what he's getting into every morning he comes into work.

Furthermore I didn't get into the whole cell phone issue in my main post, but the fact of the matter is I was there almost two hours and had nothing to do except live in my own head. I don't mind that in the least, but I do acknowledge the fact that time would have passed a lot quicker for me if I had had something to do besides stare at everyone else and look like a creep. Plus, as was asked before, what was the reasoning for asking me to turn off the phone? So other people didn't have to hear it? Just ask me to put it on silent. Pleasantly.

Also, why do you think that I don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to my cell phone? You're implying that asking to see my phone wasn't asking for consent for a search, and yet they'd be looking at something that I should normally expect to keep private.
 

Shannow

Staff member
And, since disney is a private institution, they are well within their rights to do so

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

well, I can see where totalfusionone is going with this one. I mean lots of people are getting complacent. It is not the act itself, but how people will just do "anything" to avoid trouble and when it will stop?

at Disney World, everyone with a bag is subject to search (the bag) refuse, and you don't go into the park.
.
 
M

makare

The "poor guy" had already refused to let two people apply/change/manage their SS card because of a cough. A government employee denied a citizen the right to manage a piece of information required for most employment opportunities (Not to mention housing, drivers license, medicare etc.. etc...) at the citizens convenience based on a coughs and a cell phone. The "poor guy" also signed up for this job, agreed to the duties entailed to the job, and knows exactly what he's getting into every morning he comes into work.

Furthermore I didn't get into the whole cell phone issue in my main post, but the fact of the matter is I was there almost two hours and had nothing to do except live in my own head. I don't mind that in the least, but I do acknowledge the fact that time would have passed a lot quicker for me if I had had something to do besides stare at everyone else and look like a creep. Plus, as was asked before, what was the reasoning for asking me to turn off the phone? So other people didn't have to hear it? Just ask me to put it on silent. Pleasantly.

Also, why do you think that I don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to my cell phone? You're implying that asking to see my phone wasn't asking for consent for a search, and yet they'd be looking at something that I should normally expect to keep private.
He was responsible for protecting the public by keeping sick people out. I do not feel bad because they chose to come get their card on a day they were sick. His duties are not wrong so knowing his duties does not make him a bad person.

A search is a physical touching that involves patting someone down or opening property like purses or car trunks. At best what occurred was a stop MAYBE a seizure but since you had every right to leave and walk away, or refuse as you obviously did, there is no search.

if you know are you are going to be waiting in line somewhere bring a book. a cellphone is rarely a necessity and is certainly not in that situation. Unless you are a doctor on emergency call and I am sure they would have made exceptions for that situation.
 
C

Chibibar

And, since disney is a private institution, they are well within their rights to do so

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

well, I can see where totalfusionone is going with this one. I mean lots of people are getting complacent. It is not the act itself, but how people will just do "anything" to avoid trouble and when it will stop?

at Disney World, everyone with a bag is subject to search (the bag) refuse, and you don't go into the park.
.
I agree it is within their rights. I was trying to say that a lot of places does searches now.
 
T

TotalFusionOne

I really don't see, how "Can I see you receipt?" equals "YOU ARE FILTHY HONORLESS THIEFY GIVE ME BACK OUR STUFF!?!" that TF1 seems to implies it means.
My mistake, I didn't mean to imply that at all. But I DO believe that checking the receipt against your items implied that they believe you may have stolen something and they wish to see if you did. If the buzzer goes off when someone goes through the door do you instinctively believe that they are stealing? Or do you think that the buzzer is borked? I think you probably fall into the latter of the two, so why should the store treat you as the former?

...also, the silverware example is rather... stupid. If I am going to invite anyone to my house it will be a friend/family or someone that is friend/family of a friend/family, there is a level of conection, stores have to deal with complete strangers, at best, regular costumers and in a much larger scale than any house party, and do that as a way of earning money. I doubt that there will be that many "silverware thieves" in may parties to give me financial problems anyway.
That's why I said the whole good customer service is treating your customers like guests thing. I'm not saying it's a legal argument against it, I'm saying it's just good business to treat people respectfully. And if you want to treat them respectfully, you don't treat them like you're suspicious of them stealing.

at Disney World, everyone with a bag is subject to search (the bag) refuse, and you don't go into the park.
This I actually don't have a problem with. It's not like you're going to get groceries for your family, or toilet paper to wipe your ass. It's going to a privately owned theme park. And, again having worked there, you should see what people try to get into the parks.

Like I said, I just choose not to shop at the places that practice this. When I do, I just ignore it. If you're claiming that I shouldn't feel hassled by showing my receipt then why should they feel hassled by my NOT showing it?
 
If the buzzer goes off when someone goes through the door do you instinctively believe that they are stealing? Or do you think that the buzzer is borked? I think you probably fall into the latter of the two, so why should the store treat you as the former?
Because if their door checker or security guard doesn't react, that store runs the risk of losing merchandise. They might even lose a substantially valuable piece of merchandise. Depending on the state, a certain dollar amount qualifies as grand theft.

I have a friend who manages an Apple store. You wouldn't believe the number of dumbass teens who try to steal iPods.
 
He was responsible for protecting the public by keeping sick people out. I do not feel bad because they chose to come get their card on a day they were sick. His duties are not wrong so knowing his duties does not make him a bad person.
On this I have to disagree. He isn't a doctor. I cough due to asthma all the time. If I were to be ejected for that, I may never be able to navigate such a system.
 
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