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America or the US

Mar 20, 2014#1

Naiwen

What's your thoughts about America? Some think of the US as a hero that saves the day, some the World's police and some as a big bully. I think the US's bullied enough countries (China, Afghanistan, Syria, Russia, Egypt and countless others), and it should stop it's imperialism and I think it's an Empire of sort.

Mar 20, 2014#2

Tress

I can buy the argument that we have bullied some of those countries, but I don't see how we bully either Russia or China. To be a bully we would have to be in a position of power to leverage on them, and both are powerful enough to defy the US whenever they feel like it. Could you elaborate on how you see other large powers such as China and Russia as being bullied?

Mar 20, 2014#3

Naiwen

Tress said:
I can buy the argument that we have bullied some of those countries, but I don't see how we bully either Russia or China. To be a bully we would have to be in a position of power to leverage on them, and both are powerful enough to defy the US whenever they feel like it. Could you elaborate on how you see other large powers such as China and Russia as being bullied?

On the Tibet and Taiwan issues, as well as the Ukraine issue, the US constantly uses sanctions to bully them (Russia and China) into listening to America's orders, which is to let them independent and democratic countries (listening to the US's only).

Mar 20, 2014#4

Tress

...and yet Tibet is still under Chinese control, while Taiwan is under constant threat and cannot be recognized properly. In what way has China listened to America's order on those two issues? And how has the US bullied Russia in any way?

Not agreeing with what they do is not the same as bullying them.

Mar 20, 2014#5

Naiwen

Tress said:
...and yet Tibet is still under Chinese control, while Taiwan is under constant threat and cannot be recognized properly. In what way has China listened to America's order on those two issues? And how has the US bullied Russia in any way? Like it didn't fund the anti-Russia government into power in Ukraine?

Not agreeing with what they do is not the same as bullying them.

Oh yes, like the US didn't issue ultimatums in the Ukraine-Russia issue to pressurize Russia?

Mar 20, 2014#6

Tress

You and I have a very different view on what the word "bully" means.

Mar 20, 2014#7

Chad Sexington

What ultimatum was issued in the Ukraine-Russia conflict?

"Hey, don't annex Crimea."
"Or what?"
"Orrrrr you'll see sanctions."

Putin annexes Crimea.

Obama unfriends Putin on Facebook.

Mar 20, 2014#8

Naiwen

Tress said:
You and I have a very different view on what the word "bully" means.

For me, the US is the world' biggest bully, nothing else. Why can the US use sanctions against other countries then? Or why is it America's right to punish other countries? And the US never gets sanctions for invading others and bullying and oppressing others into democracy and submission?

Mar 20, 2014#9

Tress

Well I'm glad we can have such an interesting, open-minded discussion! How could I ever disagree with your "I don't care, they just are!" argument?

EDIT: (just to be clear, this is sarcasm)

Mar 20, 2014#10

Naiwen

Tress said:
Well I'm glad we can have such an interesting, open-minded discussion! How could I ever disagree with your "I don't care, they just are!" argument?

EDIT: (just to be clear, this is sarcasm)

And what right does the US have to bully other nations into submission and to invade other countries (like Afghanistan, Iraq) without ever getting any punishment for their crimes in the world? And why can the US have the whole world's resources and some other countries have nothing? I'm thinking about the poorer countries like Syria, Libya, Egypt... Pakistan, India...How is it any fair to others?

Mar 20, 2014#11

Tress

Wow. I thought this might have been a reasonable discussion. In retrospect, that was naive of me.

Mar 20, 2014#12

Chad Sexington

America isn't like some kind of single-faceted entity that reaches into the world and does stuff to further its agenda for its own glorification. How much easier would it be not to talk to Libya, or Crimea, or Russia, or China, or Taiwan, or Tibet? To wash their hands of the problems of other nations?

America is also its people: 'Oh, I don't mean I think Americans are bullies.' Just the people they vote for, right? My mother is an American, as is my whole family on that side. They're lovely. Of course there are some real asshole Americans, too. But that sentiment is not true because of America, it is true because some people are lovely and some people are assholes, and no people are exclusively lovely or exclusively assholes.

America is a phenomenal trading partner to Canada. Our relationship with them has been very beneficial to us both.

Why isn't Russia a bully for annexing two Georgian provinces in 2008? For forcing a revolt in Crimea when his puppet-ruler failed in Ukraine? Why is the US a bully for saying that Putin ought not to interfere in a sovereign nation's affairs, while Putin marches in with the army and shrugs off the deaths and evictions of citizens who aren't ethnically Russian?

Mar 20, 2014#13

Naiwen

And no, don't lock the thread just because we disagree on something. I intend to speak fully my mind about the US's taking up others' resources, like the Mid-East's oil and etc...

Oh, other countries (like Russia) cannot protect their own interests can they? Only America can? Lol.

No, America needs to stop meddling in other countries' internal affairs.

Mar 20, 2014#14

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
And what right does the US have to bully other nations into submission and to invade other countries (like Afghanistan, Iraq) without ever getting any punishment for their crimes in the world? And why can the US have the whole world's resources and some other countries have nothing? I'm thinking about the poorer countries like Syria, Libya, Egypt... Pakistan, India...How is it any fair to others?

I'm curious what your understanding of punishment by/to the US is. How does the US have all the world's resources while others have none? How is this true of the US and not Canada, or England, or France, or Germany, or Russia, or China, or Japan, or Brazil?

Mar 20, 2014#15

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
I'm curious what your understanding of punishment by/to the US is. How does the US have all the world's resources while others have none? How is this true of the US and not Canada, or England, or France, or Germany, or Russia, or China, or Japan, or Brazil?

US is the one the world's richest country and one that wastes the most on important resources like water, gas and oil. And a country that steals from other countries' resources (here I'n referring to the Mid-East oil reserve).

Mar 20, 2014#16

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
And no, don't lock the thread just because we disagree on something. I intend to speak fully my mind about the US's taking up others' resources, like the Mid-East's oil and etc...

Oh, other countries (like Russia) cannot protect their own interests can they? Only America can? Lol.

I guess I'm saying that Russia is not protecting its own interests when it invades a sovereign country.

Your argument seems to be that because the US has done bad things in the past, it cannot point out bad things that others do. If I were married, and cheated, I would still be correct in saying "It is wrong to cheat on your wife," to my friend. Being guilty does not make you blind.[DOUBLEPOST=1395355267,1395355166][/DOUBLEPOST]

Naiwen said:
US is the one the world's richest country and one that wastes the most on important resources like water, gas and oil. And a country that steals from other countries' resources (here I'n referring to the Mid-East oil reserve).

How is it stolen? Do you mean they don't pay for the oil they get from the middle east?

Mar 20, 2014#17

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
I guess I'm saying that Russia is not protecting its own interests when it invades a sovereign country.

Your argument seems to be that because the US has done bad things in the past, it cannot point out bad things that others do. If I were married, and cheated, I would still be correct in saying "It is wrong to cheat on your wife," to my friend. Being guilty does not make you blind.

Well, you and I don't agree. The US has no right to tell what other people or countries should do, and to be on a high horse, while having committed the same crimes than some other countries did (Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Iran-Iraq, North-Korea, Japan).

Mar 20, 2014#18

GasBandit

The US is the last global superpower on the side of liberty and western civilization, slowly sliding out of that superpower status. China, Russia and such are despotic, dystopian, totalitarian states where life is cheap and corruption and decay reign both politically and physically. As others have pointed out, America "bullies" Russia and China the same way a security guard "bullies" vandals and shoplifters. Your next question is, "so who made the US the world's security guard?" The world did. Whenever there's a crisis or natural disaster anywhere in the world, what's the first thing a local screams into the first TV camera they can find? Is it "Where is Russia?" Is it "Where is China?" No, it's "Where is America? Save us!"

And like it or not, America was not the lone country to go into Iraq, either time.

Mar 20, 2014#19

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
The US is the last global superpower on the side of liberty and western civilization, slowly sliding out of that superpower status. China, Russia and such are despotic, dystopian, totalitarian states where life is cheap and corruption and decay reign both politically and physically. As others have pointed out, America "bullies" Russia and China the same way a security guard "bullies" vandals and shoplifters. Your next question is, "so who made the US the world's security guard?" The world did. Whenever there's a crisis or natural disaster anywhere in the world, what's the first thing a local screams into the first TV camera they can find? Is it "Where is Russia?" Is it "Where is China?" No, it's "Where is America? Save us!"

Lol, dream on, the world hates the US's meddling. Here's exactly why the Muslisms have attacked the US (I'm referring to the (9/11 attacks), because they got fed up with
the US's interfering with their internal affairs and bullying their countries (the Mid-East). So they stood up to the US.

Mar 20, 2014#20

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
Lol, dream on, the world hates the US's meddling. Here's exactly why the Muslisms have attacked the US (I'm referring to the (9/11 attacks), because they got fed up with
the US's meddling and bullying their countries (the Mid-East).

I'm pretty surprised you think it's at all that simple. I don't disagree that the US's economic reach was a factor, and is resented in many places, but it's not one or the other. And what is "The US"? How long has "The US" been doing this? Because it is run by people, and people who change jobs over decades.

Mar 20, 2014#21

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
I'm pretty surprised you think it's at all that simple. I don't disagree that the US's economic reach was a factor, and is resented in many places, but it's not one or the other. And what is "The US"? How long has "The US" been doing this? Because it is run by people, and people who change jobs over decades.

Because it's run by presidents who want to be World Leaders and who are on a high horse, that's why it's such a bully to other smaller nations. But who gave the US the right to bully other smaller or poorer countries into democracy? And who gave the US the right to tell people what to do when it has it's own problems?

Mar 20, 2014#22

Chad Sexington

Okay, but Russia is not a small or poor nation, and Russia is telling Ukraine what to do with Crimea. Why is that acceptable? What nations are allowed to say that it is wrong?

Mar 20, 2014#23

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
Okay, but Russia is not a small or poor nation, and Russia is telling Ukraine what to do with Crimea. Why is that acceptable? What nations are allowed to say that it is wrong?

Yes, because Crimea once belonged to Russia, so it's protecting it's own interests, just like America is. I love the hypocrisy in this thread. And because Russia is only protecting what's theirs. And America isn't.

So America alone is right and can tell others what to do, yes? And has the right to meddle in others' affairs? And when it's America that does it, it's called protecting it's own interests, but when other countries are only protecting what's theirs it's called "telling others what to do?", right?

Mar 20, 2014#24

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
Lol, dream on, the world hates the US's meddling.

Of course they do. Right up until they want us to meddle again. This crimean crisis is the latest perfect example. Everybody's eyes turned immediately to the US to see what we were going to do about Russia invading another sovereign nation on the flimsiest of pretexts.

Here's exactly why the Muslisms have attacked the US (I'm referring to the (9/11 attacks), because they got fed up with
the US's interfering with their internal affairs and bullying their countries (the Mid-East). So they stood up to the US.

No, they attack the US because the US supports Israel and has been the muslim world's scapegoat for why their lives are horrible and they're destined to live their short life in either turmoil or staring at livestock until they wander onto a (usually Russian) landmine one day. Demonizing the west, and particularly the United States, is just part and parcel of their never-ending recruitment drive for ununiformed combatants in their never-ending medieval religious war. And frankly, the organizers of the 9/11 attacks were perfectly willing to accept American help when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan.

Mar 20, 2014#25

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
Of course they do. Right up until they want us to meddle again. This crimean crisis is the latest perfect example. Everybody's eyes turned immediately to the US to see what we were going to do about Russia invading another sovereign nation on the flimsiest of pretexts.

No, they attack the US because the US supports Israel and has been the muslim world's scapegoat for why their lives are horrible and they're destined to live their short life in either turmoil or staring at livestock until they wander onto a (usually Russian) landmine one day. Demonizing the west, and particularly the United States, is just part and parcel of their never-ending recruitment drive for ununiformed combatants in their never-ending medieval religious war. And frankly, the organizers of the 9/11 attacks were perfectly willing to accept American help when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan.

Dream on, you America worshipper. No one likes America's meddling nor wants it. In fact, they got sick of America's interfering in the Middle-East, that's why they decided to bomb the US.

Mar 20, 2014#26

Reverent-one

Speaking of hypocrisy....

Naiwen said:
Well, you and I don't agree. The US has no right to tell what other people or countries should do, and to be on a high horse, while having committed the same crimes than some other countries did (Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Iran-Iraq, North-Korea, Japan).

So how do you justify getting on a high horse about how rich America is? The fact that you can get on the internet and post about it means I'm willing to bet you're pretty high up there is wealth as far as the entire world's population is concerned. Ever heard the (admittedly unsourced) saying "If you have food in your fridge, clothes on your back, a roof over your head and a place to sleep you are richer than 75% of the world". Check out this site and see how you rate before complaining about how rich others are.

Mar 20, 2014#27

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
Yes, because Crimea once belonged to Russia, so it's protecting it's own interests, just like America is. I love the hypocrisy in this thread. And because Russia is only protecting what's theirs. And America isn't.

So America alone is right and can tell others what to do, yes? And has the right to meddle in others' affairs? And when it's America that does it, it's called protecting it's own interests, but when other countries are only protecting what's theirs it's called "telling others what to do?", right?

It's been over 100 years since crimea belonged to russia, and they were the ones to cede as part of Ukraine in the first place (as an underhanded trick to get another UN vote, incidentally, since Ukraine was a puppet nation until relatively recently). By your logic, it would be acceptable for Mexico to invade the US and claim everything from Texas to Oregon.[DOUBLEPOST=1395356420,1395356390][/DOUBLEPOST]

Naiwen said:
Dream on, you America worshipper. No one likes America's meddling nor wants it. In fact, they got sick of America's interfering in the Middle-East, that's why they decided to bomb the US.

Ok, NOW we can lock the thread. This preadolescent needs to go.

Mar 20, 2014#28

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
It's been over 100 years since crimea belonged to russia, and they were the ones to cede as part of Ukraine in the first place (as an underhanded trick to get another UN vote, incidentally, since Ukraine was a puppet nation until relatively recently). By your logic, it would be acceptable for Mexico to invade the US and claim everything from Texas to Oregon.

Yes, since it originally belonged to the Natives. And Texas is a stolen land from the Native Americans. And they have more right to be on that land, than White American, and it is rightfully theirs. And no, you can't lock it because we disagree. You're more childish than me.

And in fact, the whole of the US is a stolen land from the Natives? Why don't the American White get any punishment for having stolen lands from the Natives?

Mar 20, 2014#29

Dei

http://onion.com/1r1l8TV So this is The Onion, but it still kind of makes the point of why it is silly to call the US a bully as far as Crimea goes.

Mar 20, 2014#30

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
Yes, because Crimea once belonged to Russia, so it's protecting it's own interests, just like America is. I love the hypocrisy in this thread. And because Russia is only protecting what's theirs. And America isn't.

So America alone is right and can tell others what to do, yes? And has the right to meddle in others' affairs? And when it's America that does it, it's called protecting it's own interests, but when other countries are only protecting what's theirs it's called "telling others what to do?", right?

I have never said that America is right, or is alone in being right. In fact, I asked what other countries can be right. America makes mistakes, and will make more. America has intentionally committed acts against popular will, and even against international law. I would not say otherwise. This does not mean that America is only a country which makes mistakes and commits actions that are selfish or harmful.

And this is not an issue of simple right-or-wrong, good-and-evil, either; I don't think America's foreign policy is "right" per se, but better than Russia's, certainly.

Mar 20, 2014#31

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
Yes, since it originally belonged to the Natives. And Texas is a stolen land from the Native Americans. And they have more right to be on that land, than White American, and it is rightfully theirs. And no, you can't lock it, because we disagree. You're more childish than me.

You're the one who started namecalling and making fallacious ad-hominem attacks. You want to stick to debating ideas, then do it.

Furthermore, Texas was a soveriegn nation before being (voluntarily) annexed by the US. I think you need to spend more time with your nose in your history books.

Mar 20, 2014#32

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
You're the one who started namecalling and making fallacious ad-hominem attacks. You want to stick to debating ideas, then do it.

that's not name-calling, that's describing you as who you are: a US worshipper.

Mar 20, 2014#33

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
Yes, since it originally belonged to the Natives. And Texas is a stolen land from the Native Americans. And they have more right to be on that land, than White American, and it is rightfully theirs. And no, you can't lock it because we disagree. You're more childish than me.

And in fact, the whole of the US is a stolen land from the Natives? Why don't the American White get any punishment for having stolen lands from the Natives?

How reductionist do you go, then? Should we all just head on back to Africa, where we think homo sapiens originated? We cannot have any other space, because we were only in one place first.

Mar 20, 2014#34

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
that's not name-calling, that's describing you as who you are: a US worshipper.

That is the very definition of name calling. You are calling me a name without actually addressing my point.

Mar 20, 2014#35

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
How reductionist do you go, then? Should we all just head on back to Africa, where we think homo sapiens originated? We cannot have any other space, because we were only in one place first.

Yeah, what I hate about the US is that it acts as if it hasn't committed any crimes against humanity, when it almost wiped out an entire race and always targets China, Russia or the Mid-East and other countries for the killing of innocent native.

Mar 20, 2014#36

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
Yeah, what I hate about the US is that it acts as if it hasn't committed any crimes against humanity, when it almost wiped out an entire race and always targets China, Russia or the Mid-East and other countries for the killing of innocent native.

The difference is that China, Russia and the Middle East are still doing it. We haven't for hundreds of years.

Mar 20, 2014#37

Dave

Naiwen said:
And no, don't lock the thread just because we disagree on something.

We usually don't lock threads unless name calling gets involved. Disagreeing is perfectly fine.

And I do disagree with your basic premise. I do think that we have been heavy handed in a number of situations and can totally see where someone would think we're a bully. But at the same time, everyone looks to us to do stuff. How many times have we heard criticism that we didn't act to prevent X or Y when the only way we possibly could would be some sort of military intervention. With Ukraine, Russia has invaded a sovereign nation. What are our choices? Military intervention, sanctions, or do nothing. We've already ruled out - for the time being - military involvement, and doing nothing violates our pacts with the Ukraine and Baltic states. So what are we left with? Sanctions.

Love it or hate it, the world expects us to do something. We're really damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I do like hearing a totally different point of view, though. Too many times people talk about the US in terms of rainbows and puppy farts.

Mar 20, 2014#38

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
The difference is that China, Russia and the Middle East are still doing it. We haven't for hundreds of years.

Lol, haha... you're delusional if you believe that Whites aren't doing it to any other people now... and never deported mass human population. So it makes it all right for the US to criticize others for their crimes while having having committed them themselves and having never paid for them?

And that's exactly why the world hates or resents America, because it thinks it never did any wrong to others, and it thinks it's not dictating others' thoughts and actions while in fact, it actually is doing it at this very moment.

Oh, and the exploiting of girls from other races in America is still an issue yes?

What I totally hate in this kinda discussion is when people think America is a Saint when it has committed sins and crimes against humanity itself and when these people are not able to recognize why people hate America so much.

Mar 20, 2014#39

Tress

Naiwen said:
Oh, and the exploiting of girls from other races in America is still an issue yes?

Yup. We're the only country in the world with that problem. Our bad.

Mar 20, 2014#40

Dave

America isn't just "the Whites", though. I'll admit it's high - 74% as of 2010 - but we are rather diverse.

Mar 20, 2014#41

Hailey Knight

This is the funniest thread we've had in a long time. I love it. Everyone, please keep posting in it and trying to have a discussion and asking questions. This is amazing.

This needs Charlie. Where's Charlie? Someone get him! I don't know how to get people's user numbers to tag them properly.

Mar 20, 2014#42

Naiwen

Dave said:
America isn't just "the Whites", though. I'll admit it's high - 74% as of 2010 - but we are rather diverse.

Only 26% of people from other races than White. So it's a society made by Whites for Whites only in America.

And I think America is actually the number 1 dictator, since it wants everyone to think the same way as America does, and it spreads the same kind of political propaganda: that freedom is the best thing ever and that democracy is the best political system ever in human history.

Mar 20, 2014#43

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
Lol, haha... you're delusional

Ad hominem.

if you believe that Whites aren't doing it to any other people now

"Whites" or Americans? Most Russians are white too. As are most Europeans, Canadians.. so on and so forth. Also, racism much?

. and never deported mass human population. So it makes it all right for the US to criticize others for their crimes while having having committed them themselves and having never paid for them?

The first step would be to stop doing it. That's kind of an important distinction.

And that's exactly why the world hates or resents America, because it thinks it never did any wrong to others, and it thinks it's not dictating others' thoughts and actions while in fact, it actually is doing it at this very moment.

No. To put it in simple terms you can understand, they hate America because of wealth envy, predominately.

Oh, and the exploiting of girls from other races in America is still an issue yes?

Mostly by those other races. Yes, we have problems with Asians kidnapping/tricking girls in their native country to America and then holding them in virtual slave prostitution. That is not an American institution, however. It's not policy, it's crime - crime largely committed by foreign nationals.

Also, I've got a three word phrase for you to look up on wikipedia - "Chinese female infanticide."

Mar 20, 2014#44

Dave

Naiwen said:
Only 26% of people from other races than White. So it's a society made by Whites for Whites only in America.

So you live in Canada, yes? A Western country. 76.7% white. Do you hate Canada?

Mar 20, 2014#45

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
Lol, haha... you're delusional if you believe that Whites aren't doing it to any other people now... and never deported mass human population. So it makes it all right for the US to criticize others for their crimes while having having committed them themselves and having never paid for them?

And that's exactly why the world hates or resents America, because it thinks it never did any wrong to others, and it thinks it's not dictating others' thoughts and actions while in fact, it actually is doing it at this very moment.

Oh, and the exploiting of girls from other races in America is still an issue yes?

What I totally hate in this kinda discussion is when people think America is a Saint when it has committed sins and crimes against humanity itself and when these people are not able to recognize why people hate America so much.

It's weird that you think only people or nations who haven't done a certain action can criticise those who do it. You and I are from Canada, which does not have the best track record with its own Native peoples. Why are you allowed to criticise America for its maltreatment of Natives while Canada still has a long way to go?

The answer, of course, is that it is okay to note wrongs even while you yourself are working on similar problems - or are ignorant of those problems! Stating something is a bad activity is not stating you are innocent.

Mar 20, 2014#46

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
Only 26% of people from other races than White. So it's a society made by Whites for Whites only in America.

And I think America is actually the number 1 dictator, since it wants everyone to think the same way as America does, and it spreads the same kind of political propaganda: that freedom is the best thing ever and that democracy is the best political system ever in human history.

Wow, nobody told us we were by whites for whites! Now we're in trouble, we've got a black president!

I can't believe I'm even engaging this person.

Mar 20, 2014#47

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
Ad hominem.

"Whites" or Americans? Most Russians are white too. As are most Europeans, Canadians.. so on and so forth. Also, racism much?

The first step would be to stop doing it. That's kind of an important distinction.

No. To put it in simple terms you can understand, they hate America because of wealth envy, predominately.

Mostly by those other races. Yes, we have problems with Asians kidnapping/tricking girls in their native country to America and then holding them in virtual slave

prostitution. That is not an American institution, however. It's not policy, it's crime - crime largely committed by foreign nationals.

Also, I've got a three word phrase for you to look up on wikipedia - "Chinese female infanticide."

And isn't it happening in America too? If you think America is a holyland clean of such crimes, then you really worship America way too much or you have fallen for American propaganda where it's all good in America, and other countries need saving.

Mar 20, 2014#48

Reverent-one

Zero Esc said:
This is the funniest thread we've had in a long time. I love it. Everyone, please keep posting in it and trying to have a discussion and asking questions. This is amazing.

This needs Charlie. Where's Charlie? Someone get him! I don't know how to get people's user numbers to tag them properly.

I'm waiting for @Gilgamesh to show up.

Mar 20, 2014#49

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
And it's not happening in America too? If you think America is a holyland clean of such crimes, then you really worship America way too much or you have fallen for American propaganda where it's all good in America, and other countries need saving.

Uh, no. By and large, Americans are not drowning their newborn females in droves. That'd kind of be murder, and I doubt all the doctors and nurses in our hospitals would cover it up.

"Chinese female infanticide" gets 5 pages of google hits. "American female infanticide" gets one false positive.

There's someone here who's been brainwashed by propaganda, but it isn't me.

Mar 20, 2014#50

Hailey Knight

GasBandit said:
Also, I've got a three word phrase for you to look up on wikipedia - "Chinese female infanticide."

For more China human rights violations against women fun, let's throw in the one-child policy enforced by the family planning with forced abortions.

Mar 20, 2014#51

Naiwen

Dave said:
So you live in Canada, yes? A Western country. 76.7% white. Do you hate Canada?

I am not White Canadian myself, I'm Chinese-Canadian. And yes, I hate the Whites who have done the Natives wrong and who never paid for their crimes.

China has every right to regulate its population.

Mar 20, 2014#52

Tress

Naiwen said:
And I think America is actually the number 1 dictator, since it wants everyone to think the same way as America does, and it spreads the same kind of political propaganda: that freedom is the best thing ever and that democracy is the best political system ever in human history.

I agree, freedom is just awful. We should tell people that being oppressed is the best way to be.

Mar 20, 2014#53

Naiwen

Zero Esc said:
For more China human rights violations against women fun, let's throw in the one-child policy enforced by the family planning with forced abortions.

Like America hasn't violated any "human rights" or "people's rights to freedom"?XD

I'm really surprised that there are so many who have fallen for the American propaganda.

Mar 20, 2014#54

Hailey Knight

Naiwen said:
Like America hasn't violated any "human rights" or "people's rights to freedom"?XD

I'm really surprised that there are so many who have fallen for the American propaganda.

But we're allowed to. We're America.

Mar 20, 2014#55

Naiwen

All I'm saying here is: America isn't a Saint nor anything Holy and doesn't have a clean record of crimes committed against humanity.

Mar 20, 2014#56

GasBandit

Look, the point is not that "America is so great." We've got our problems. We've got a LOT of problems, and we're trying to fix them.

Russia and China see their only problems as being that more of the world doesn't belong to Russia and China.

Mar 20, 2014#57

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
Look, the point is not that "America is so great." We've got our problems. We've got a LOT of problems, and we're trying to fix them.

Russia and China see their only problems as being that more of the world doesn't belong to Russia and China.

And the world doesn't belong to America either, and America is trying to annex it to their Empire. And people are getting tired of being told what to do by America.

Mar 20, 2014#58

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
And yes, I hate the Whites

[DOUBLEPOST=1395359293,1395359153][/DOUBLEPOST]

Naiwen said:
And the world doesn't belong to America either, and America is trying to annex it to their Empire.

[Citation Needed]

China has every right to regulate its population.

Yes, when you've got a billion hungry mouths to feed, things like ethics and morality are luxuries a nation can ill afford.

Mar 20, 2014#59

Hailey Knight

Naiwen said:
All I'm saying here is: America isn't a Saint nor anything Holy and doesn't have a clean record of crimes committed against humanity.

Yes, that is all you're saying. When people ask you questions or try to discuss a point, you laugh at them, label them, and ignore what they said. You're not interesting in discussion, you're interested in belittling those who took the time to reply to you, especially when most of them cared to be polite.

Mar 20, 2014#60

Naiwen

Zero Esc said:
Yes, that is all you're saying. When people ask you questions or try to discuss a point, you laugh at them, label them, and ignore what they said. You're not interesting in discussion, you're interested in belittling those who took the time to reply to you, especially when most of them cared to be polite.

Because we disagree, and that's perfectly fine by me, not because I'm not listening to your point. I'm interested in speaking frankly without having to be polite or to please anyone.

Mar 20, 2014#61

GasBandit

Zero Esc said:
Yes, that is all you're saying. When people ask you questions or try to discuss a point, you laugh at them, label them, and ignore what they said. You're not interesting in discussion, you're interested in belittling those who took the time to reply to you, especially when most of them cared to be polite.

The funny thing was, when I came in, I thought this was going to be another Calleja nomenclature debate... IE "America is a continent, not a country".

Oi.[DOUBLEPOST=1395359538,1395359478][/DOUBLEPOST]

Naiwen said:
Because we disagree, and that's perfectly fine by me. I'm interested in speaking frankly without having to be polite or to please anyone.

No, if you were perfectly fine with disagreement, you probably wouldn't have started this thread in the first place, much less attempted to ridicule everyone who has responded to you.

Grow up.

Mar 20, 2014#62

drifter

This thread is hilarious in context of the boyfriend thread.

Mar 20, 2014#63

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
The funny thing was, when I came in, I thought this was going to be another Calleja nomenclature debate... IE "America is a continent, not a country".

Oi.[DOUBLEPOST=1395359538,1395359478][/DOUBLEPOST]
No, if you were perfectly fine with disagreement, you probably wouldn't have started this thread in the first place, much less attempted to ridicule everyone who has responded to you.

Grow up.

Lol, you think you're being ridiculed because you disagree with my viewpoints, it's the other way around, it's you who can't take a disagreement with me.

And nothing you ever say is going to make me change my mind about America.

Mar 20, 2014#64

GasBandit

drifter said:
This thread is hilarious in context of the boyfriend thread.

Isn't it though? Hates the whites, only attracted to white boys, worried her oh-so-enlightened chinese parents won't put their racism aside and let her love who she wants, because the Chinese are so much better than the Whites.[DOUBLEPOST=1395359745,1395359670][/DOUBLEPOST]

Naiwen said:
Lol, you think you're being ridiculed because you disagree with my viewpoints, it's the other way around, it's you who can't take a disagreement with me.

"No U." Wow, hello internet of 10 years ago, I missed you.

And nothing you ever say is going to make me change my mind about America.

So why are you here? Why did you start this thread if you weren't interested in dissenting opinions?

Mar 20, 2014#65

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
Isn't it though? Hates the whites, only attracted to white boys, worried her oh-so-enlightened chinese parents won't put their racism aside and let her love who she wants, because the Chinese are so much better than the Whites.

And if you were mature enough to disagree with me, you wouldn't have attacked me back, you'd just ignore me eh?

Just to test if how people here are going to take my opinions against America. And an interesting point to note, is even non-Americans will jump to America's defines, when they feel America's being attacked, that's fragile these people's beliefs are.

Mar 20, 2014#66

Dave

It's also interesting to me how you gloss over the atrocities by your own country and those of Russia. Every established country has things in their past of which they are not proud. America is no different. What matters, though, is attempting to make things better. And just because our government still does things which we disagree with, doesn't mean that this is the will of the people. Hell, look at the current NSA & Snowden stuff to get a glimpse of how normal Americans feel about things.[DOUBLEPOST=1395360053,1395359912][/DOUBLEPOST]

Naiwen said:
And an interesting point to note, is even non-Americans will jump to America's defines, when they feel America's being attacked, that's fragile these people's beliefs are.

This has not as much to do with how good/bad American actions are, but of your failure to present your issues in an objective and logical manner. You really did come in guns-a-blazing. Kinda like...oh, I don't know...an American might do if they feel like they have the moral high ground.

Bottom line is, we're all human and have to deal with it.

Mar 20, 2014#67

Hailey Knight

Naiwen said:
Because we disagree, and that's perfectly fine by me, not because I'm not listening to your point. I'm interested in speaking frankly without having to be polite or to please anyone.

But you're not listening to them. Here, I've made you a master post that you can paste in reply to each other post:

For me, the US is the world' biggest bully, nothing else. America worshipper. And when it's America that does it, it's called protecting it's own interests, but when other countries are only protecting what's theirs it's called "telling others what to do?", right? Lol, dream on, America worshipper. Political propaganda. Tyranny. Imperialism. World domination. Oppression. America worshipper.

And let's not forget!

It's a society made by Whites for Whites only in America.

And you can't keep your hands off them:

they don't want me dating White guys, but I'm attracted to them and not to Asian guys.

Mar 20, 2014#68

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
And if you were mature enough to disagree with me, you wouldn't have attacked me back, you'd just ignore me eh?

Just to test if how people here are going to take my opinions against America. And an interesting point to note, is even non-Americans will jump to America's defines, when they feel America's being attacked, that's fragile these people's beliefs are.

I gave you several chances. Yes, a few posts ago I stopped being civil and just started ridiculing you. I refuse to expend the effort to engage you intellectually when there obviously isn't an intellect to be engaged... just another little chicom drone. Albeit one with WHITE FEVER!

Mar 20, 2014#69

Reverent-one

Naiwen said:
Just to test if how people here are going to take my opinions against America. And an interesting point to note, is even non-Americans will jump to America's defines, when they feel America's being attacked, that's fragile these people's beliefs are.

It's also interesting to note how you'll ignore other people's points and do nothing but make ad hominems against everyone who disagrees with you (then complain when someone else does it to you), that's how fragile your beliefs are.

Mar 20, 2014#70

Cajungal

Woo...

Mar 20, 2014#71

Charlie Don't Surf

I like this one. I don't agree with it all, but I like alternative viewpoints.

also, this entire thread is american exceptionalism dot text.

Mar 20, 2014#72

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I like this one. I don't agree with it all, but I like alternative viewpoints.

also, this entire thread is american exceptionalism dot text.

Nah, be fair, it's pretty much my posts that are that. Most others are at least partially in white guilt dot ar tee eff.

Mar 20, 2014#73

Dave

You gotta admit, she really kicked the ant hill. :drunk:

Mar 20, 2014#74

Hailey Knight

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I like this one. I don't agree with it all, but I like alternative viewpoints.

also, this entire thread is american exceptionalism dot text.

We all are ones!

Mar 20, 2014#75

GasBandit

Dave said:
You gotta admit, she really kicked the ant hill.

She fooled us all into thinking she was actually looking for a discussion. Shame on us. She can share the ridicule drawer with the other Charlie going forward.

Mar 20, 2014#76

Hailey Knight

Dave said:
You gotta admit, she really kicked the ant hill.

But now she's not posting.

Mar 20, 2014#77

Celt Z

... did anyone else read this thread and think we may have found Charlie his perfect woman?

Quick! Find out how she feels about cops and Oscar nominated films before she's gone!

Mar 20, 2014#78

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
... did anyone else read this thread and think we may have found Charlie his perfect woman?

She seemed a little young ...

Mar 20, 2014#79

Gilgamesh

Zero Esc said:
But now she's not posting.

I was purposely staying out of this because of how hilariously Charlie 2.0 it was. And now it's over.

Mar 20, 2014#80

Cajungal

Celt Z said:
... did anyone else read this thread and think we may have found Charlie his perfect woman?

Yes. I heard romantic comedy music in my head.

THIS WILL BE!...AN EVERLASTING LOVE!

Mar 20, 2014#81

Celt Z

I admit, when I clicked on this thread, I thought it was something like her other threads, like "Do you prefer to call it 'The US' or "America'?" Did not see this one coming.

Mar 20, 2014#82

GasBandit

Celt Z said:
I admit, when I clicked on this thread, I thought it was something like her other threads, like "Do you prefer to call it 'The US' or "America'?" Did not see this one coming.

Mah sister by another mister.

Mar 20, 2014#83

AshburnerX

Celt Z said:
I admit, when I clicked on this thread, I thought it was something like her other threads, like "Do you prefer to call it 'The US' or "America'?" Did not see this one coming.

At least that would have been interesting. I'm told a lot of South and Central Americans get a little riled up whenever anyone uses the term "American" to refer solely to people from the USA, as they feel it demeans them as people or something.

Mar 20, 2014#84

Naiwen

GasBandit said:
I gave you several chances. Yes, a few posts ago I stopped being civil and just started ridiculing you. I refuse to expend the effort to engage you intellectually when there obviously isn't an intellect to be engaged... just another little chicom drone. Albeit one with WHITE FEVER!

And why should I respect your opinions when we just won't agree with each other? And I ignore people's points because I don't agree with them and because there would be no point in addressing them since I don't agree with their points anyways?

Mar 20, 2014#85

Dave

Naiwen said:
And why should I respect your opinions when we just won't agree with each other?

So you're saying he doesn't have to respect yours, either?

Mar 20, 2014#86

Terrik

Naiwen said:
And why should I respect your opinions when we just won't agree with each other? And I ignore people's points because I don't agree with them and because there would be no point in addressing them since I don't agree with their points anyways?

Mar 20, 2014#87

Naiwen

Dave said:
So you're saying he doesn't have to respect yours, either?

Yeah. Since we're never going to agree with each other anyway, there's no point in discussing with each other either.

Mar 20, 2014#88

HCGLNS

Naiwen said:
What's your thoughts about America?

I quite like NASA.
I am not entirely sure their system of two party democracy is healthy over an extended period of time.
The population of Arizona concerns me, I am some what wary of so many people living in a place so unsuitable to habitation.
I like their constitution, I should give it another read to see how my aging has altered my views upon it.
I think that they are being very stubborn in not adopting a dollar coin.
Disney World is fantastic.

Mar 20, 2014#89

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
And why should I respect your opinions when we just won't agree with each other? And I ignore people's points because I don't agree with them and because there would be no point in addressing them since I don't agree with their points anyways?

Mar 20, 2014#90

Dave

Took way longer than I thought it would.

Mar 20, 2014#91

GasBandit

Mar 20, 2014#92

AshburnerX

HCGLNS said:
I think that they are being very stubborn in not adopting a dollar coin.

We have SEVERAL dollar coins. The issue with them is that it's just much less convenient to carry a pocket full of coins than it is to have a billfold, ESPECIALLY when you are going to need a billfold for anything larger than a dollar anyway. Personally, I think we just need to make vending machines than accept debit cards more common but the vending machine industry has been fighting that almost as hard as they have new dollar coins...

Don't even get me started on the two party system. Or Gas. ESPECIALLY Gas.

Mar 20, 2014#93

mikerc

Naiwen said:
And in fact, the whole of Crimea is a stolen land from the Tatars? Why don't the Russians get any punishment for having stolen lands from the Tatars?

Mar 20, 2014#94

Gilgamesh

Naiwen said:
Yeah. Since we're never going to agree with each other anyway, there's no point in discussing with each other either.

I already know the answer to this but let's see anyway:

So if you were never going to change your mind about the US, why discuss it at all? Why not just say -This is my unwavering opinion and will not change- from the get-go and not bother with the rest of the posts?

Mar 20, 2014#95

HCGLNS

AshburnerX said:
We have SEVERAL dollar coins. The issue with them is that it's just much less convenient to carry a pocket full of coins than it is to have a billfold, ESPECIALLY when you are going to need a billfold for anything larger than a dollar anyway. Personally, I think we just need to make vending machines than accept debit cards more common but the vending machine industry has been fighting that almost as hard as they have new dollar coins...

Don't even get me started on the two party system. Or Gas. ESPECIALLY Gas.

The greatest thing since bread was sliced is the ability to wave your wallet over a thing to pay for something while dealing with children who just love to hit those fancy buttons on the debit machine.

Mar 20, 2014#96

Naiwen

Gilgamesh said:
I already know the answer to this but let's see anyway:

So if you were never going to change your mind about the US, why discuss it at all? Why not just say -This is my unwavering opinion and will not change- from the get-go and not bother with the rest of the posts?

Because it's fun to see how people were going to take opinions that are anti-America.

Mar 20, 2014#97

Gilgamesh

Naiwen said:
Because it's fun to see how people were going to take my anti-Americanism.

So..... you were trolling?

That was pretty much how Charlie responded the day he admitted to enjoying watching posts in response to his feminism and anti-police posts.

I think @Cajungal was right, you're marrying the wrong person.

Mar 20, 2014#98

Naiwen

Gilgamesh said:
So..... you were trolling?

No, just getting opinions from a totally opposite direction. It's fun to argue with people who don't share your opinions. And just to see how close-minded people really are about their opinions.

Mar 20, 2014#99

Dei

HCGLNS said:
The population of Arizona concerns me, I am some what wary of so many people living in a place so unsuitable to habitation.
.

Doesn't that statement apply to most of Canada?

Mar 20, 2014#100

Gilgamesh

Naiwen said:
Just getting opinions from a totally opposite direction. It's fun to argue with people who don't share your opinions. And just to see how close-minded people really are about their opinions.

That's completely the opposite of what you first wrote.

Mar 20, 2014#101

Naiwen

Gilgamesh said:
That's completely the opposite of what you first wrote.

And I never thought people were this close-minded about their political opinions.

Mar 20, 2014#102

Dave

Naiwen said:
And I never thought people were this close-minded about their political opinions.

You've obviously never argued with Gas before.

Mar 20, 2014#103

Ravenpoe

Here's what I've taken away from this thread: @Naiwen is an 18-20something that just got to college.

Mar 20, 2014#104

Gilgamesh

Naiwen said:
And I never thought people were this close-minded about their political opinions.

Wait, you're saying people are close minded right?

Naiwen said:
And nothing you ever say is going to make me change my mind about America.

Explaination?

Mar 20, 2014#105

Hailey Knight

Naiwen said:
Because it's fun to see how people were going to take opinions that are anti-America.

It is pretty funny.

The unfortunate thing is that America will rule the world and there's nothing you can do about it. You'll watch videos of us on Youtube as we invade one country after another, so long as they have natural resources for us to plunder and people to oppress, and all you can do is watch. You will never get out there and do anything about it. Making this post is the most activism you're ever going to do, because to do any more would mean getting off the internet, going outside into the frozen wasteland of Canada, and doing something.

And you know what's the saddest thing about that? Even if you did, it wouldn't matter. America is bigger than you will ever be and there is nothing you can do about it. You will be a lowly serf in the American Empire and you can't stop it. It cannot be stopped. The rest of the world doesn't like it--they don't have to like it, because we win. We always win. It's just a matter of time.

Mar 20, 2014#106

Dave

Gilgamesh said:
Wait, you're saying people are close minded right?

Explaination?

Oooh!

[DOUBLEPOST=1395363280,1395363262][/DOUBLEPOST]Jesus that picture is huge.

Mar 20, 2014#107

GasBandit

Dave said:
You've obviously never argued with ANYONE before.

FTFY.

Also, the picture parade continues :

Mar 20, 2014#108

Gilgamesh

Dave said:
Oooh!

I'm not expecting a response.

Mar 20, 2014#109

HCGLNS

Dei said:
Doesn't that statement apply to most of Canada?

Not really, the majority of the population lives very close to large bodies of water, needed both for travel and consumption. I do worry about how much fresh water is being diverted into areas of the Mid West (is that Arizona?) and how that affects the environment.[DOUBLEPOST=1395363503,1395363438][/DOUBLEPOST]

GasBandit said:
FTFY.

Also, the picture parade continues :

BS, cottage country is not Northern Ontario.

Mar 20, 2014#110

GasBandit

HCGLNS said:
Not really, the majority of the population lives very close to large bodies of water, needed both for travel and consumption. I do worry about how much fresh water is being diverted into areas of the Mid West (is that Arizona?)

No, the Mid-West is Ohio. I know it makes no sense.

Arizona is the South-west.

Mar 20, 2014#111

Hailey Knight

Gilgamesh said:
I'm not expecting a response.

Let me guess:

"You say it is me who is close-minded, but it is actually you who is the close-minded one."

It's like a bad anime dub from the late 80s/early 90s.

Mar 20, 2014#112

HCGLNS

GasBandit said:
No, the Mid-West is Ohio. I know it makes no sense.

Arizona is the South-west.

This is the only way I can keep your geography straight

Mar 20, 2014#113

Hailey Knight

Dave said:
Jesus that picture is huge.

Of course it is.

It's American.

Mar 20, 2014#114

Dream Goddess

Darling Naiwen,

You are right. These bastards are all just mindless slaves to the American propaganda machine and think their shit don't stink. Even the Canadians! Come, come away, my love and we shall fly into the night to declare the virtues and perfections of communism and (more importantly) China! Long live China's inherent lack of racism, poverty, crime, corruption, oppression, and tyrannical white men!

All of these white men, handsome and attractive though they might be, are full of democracy, narcissism, and horrible disregard for human life other than their own. Fuck the racist white bastards! They're sexist too! Screw America! Bomb America!

Let's move back to China where things are equal and better and fair and loving and honest! Let's state our opinions as loudly as we want at the top of our lungs in China, even if it makes the Maoists angry JUST TO SEE HOW THEY'LL REACT. Let's go do it! COme oN, NaiwEN.

Let's start some shit in China and prove how much better we'd have it off there where the government oppresses NO ONE. Make out with me in the streets, darling. In front of the world. Let's show America who's boss.

Mar 20, 2014#115

GasBandit

Oh dear god, don't try to learn our capitals. Even we can't do that.

Mar 20, 2014#116

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
No, the Mid-West is Ohio. I know it makes no sense.

Arizona is the South-west.

What he said. The Mid-West is basically everything between the Rocky and Appalachian mountain ranges, north of Arizona and Oklahoma, but excluding Missouri and Kentucky. Those last two are considered part of the South for cultural reasons.

Mar 20, 2014#117

Ravenpoe

Dream Goddess said:
Darling Naiwen,

You are right. These bastards are all just mindless slaves to the American propaganda machine and think their shit don't stink. Even the Canadians! Come, come away, my love and we shall fly into the night to declare the virtues and perfections of communism and (more importantly) China! Long live China's inherent lack of racism, poverty, crime, corruption, oppression, and tyrannical white men!

All of these white men, handsome and attractive though they might be, are full of democracy, narcissism, and horrible disregard for human life other than their own. Fuck the racist white bastards! They're sexist too! Screw America! Bomb America!

Let's move back to China where things are equal and better and fair and loving and honest! Let's state our opinions as loudly as we want at the top of our lungs in China, even if it makes the Maoists angry JUST TO SEE HOW THEY'LL REACT. Let's go do it! COme oN, NaiwEN.

Let's start some shit in China and prove how much better we'd have it off there where the government oppresses NO ONE. Make out with me in the streets, darling. In front of the world. Let's show America who's boss.

We need a 'strangely aroused' rating...

Mar 20, 2014#118

HCGLNS

I used to think that New England was a state.

I had to sit in a box for you know two minutes and you feel shame you know.

Mar 20, 2014#119

GasBandit

Ravenpoe said:
We need a 'strangely aroused' rating...

It'd be difficult to make one of those small icons for "I have the wierdest boner right now," but heck, if I could do the brofist one, I might could try this.[DOUBLEPOST=1395364556,1395364456][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, more fun pictures for this waste of a thread.

Mar 20, 2014#120

Celt Z

doesn't mean "strangely aroused"?

...I think I've been doing it wrong.

Mar 20, 2014#121

Ravenpoe

Well these will be in my nightmares now...

Mar 20, 2014#122

Gilgamesh

GasBandit said:
It'd be difficult to make one of those small icons for "I have the wierdest boner right now," but heck, if I could do the brofist one, I might could try this.[DOUBLEPOST=1395364556,1395364456][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, more fun pictures for this waste of a thread.

Mar 20, 2014#123

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
Just to test if how people here are going to take my opinions against America. And an interesting point to note, is even non-Americans will jump to America's defines, when they feel America's being attacked, that's fragile these people's beliefs are.

But, perhaps their beliefs are not fragile; you seem to be saying that your opinion about America is correct and unchangeable - the people who think differently about America probably believe their opinion is correct. To say your opinion is unchangeable seems to me to be fairly closed-minded: isn't an open mind about considering and respecting other opinions, alert that new information might change your mind, not that your mind MUST be changed?

Naiwen said:
No, just getting opinions from a totally opposite direction. It's fun to argue with people who don't share your opinions. And just to see how close-minded people really are about their opinions.

You don't seem to be arguing with people who don't share your opinions, though: you're stating that you do not like America because of various reasons, but do not respond to the questions asked about those reasons, you simply laugh it off, as though no one knows that America has its share of blame in the world. No one here has called America a saint or holier-than, but you presume that people here feel that way. We all know it isn't; that doesn't give the right to other nations to behave however they want, does it?

Naiwen said:
And I never thought people were this close-minded about their political opinions.

Again, many people have tried to engage you, only to be laughed at. Do you mean that after being told your opinion, we don't agree? That isn't closed-mindedness. I agree that America has it share of wrongdoing and atrocities in its history. I disagree that it is an international bully.

You wrote that you don't need to respect opinions that disagree with yours: to me that is confusing. I respect your opinion about America, though I disagree; in fact, in asking questions, and challenging your words, I plan on learning more. In lieu of insight, you tend to respond with, "Well, like America hasn't done that!" But that's never the question asked; no one wants to know why America is bad, what we're curious about is why other nations don't have to be held responsible for bad actions, just because America has also done bad things.

If one child behaves badly, and a second behaves less badly, or behaves badly less often, are not both children still responsible? I am confused by your reasoning, and trying to understand.

Mar 20, 2014#124

GasBandit

Mar 20, 2014#125

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
But, perhaps their beliefs are not fragile; you seem to be saying that your opinion about America is correct and unchangeable - the people who think differently about America probably believe their opinion is correct. To say your opinion is unchangeable seems to me to be fairly closed-minded: isn't an open mind about considering and respecting other opinions, alert that new information might change your mind, not that your mind MUST be changed?

You don't seem to be arguing with people who don't share your opinions, though: you're stating that you do not like America because of various reasons, but do not respond to the questions asked about those reasons, you simply laugh it off, as though no one knows that America has its share of blame in the world. No one here has called

America a saint or holier-than, but you presume that people here feel that way. We all know it isn't; that doesn't give the right to other nations to behave however they want, does it?

Again, many people have tried to engage you, only to be laughed at. Do you mean that after being told your opinion, we don't agree? That isn't closed-mindedness. I agree that America has it share of wrongdoing and atrocities in its history. I disagree that it is an international bully.

You wrote that you don't need to respect opinions that disagree with yours: to me that is confusing. I respect your opinion about America, though I disagree; in fact, in asking questions, and challenging your words, I plan on learning more. In lieu of insight, you tend to respond with, "Well, like America hasn't done that!" But that's never the question asked; no one wants to know why America is bad, what we're curious about is why other nations don't have to be held responsible for bad actions, just because America has also done bad things.

If one child behaves badly, and a second behaves less badly, or behaves badly less often, are not both children still responsible? I am confused by your reasoning, and trying to understand.

Because more often than not, America criticizes other countries and acts like it never did anyone wrong and that's what I do not like about America. And it acts like it's the only one in the right and all others are wrong.

Mar 20, 2014#126

Hailey Knight

Naiwen said:
Because more often than not, America criticizes other countries and acts like it never did anyone wrong and that's what I do not like about America. And it acts like it's the only one in the right and all others are wrong.

Because America is right.

Mar 20, 2014#127

Naiwen

And who gave the US the right to say what's fair and what's not? And to define for others what's wrong and what's right?

Mar 20, 2014#128

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
And who gave the US the right to say what's fair and what's not? And to define for others what's wrong and what's right?

Who gave anyone else that right?

Mar 20, 2014#129

Naiwen

Chad Sexington said:
Who gave anyone else that right?

And just because America says it's wrong, it doesn't mean it's wrong then, because it doesn't have the right to decide for others.

Mar 20, 2014#130

GasBandit

Naiwen said:
And who gave the US the right to say what's fair and what's not? And to define for others what's wrong and what's right?

You just mad cuz you wrong all the time.

Mar 20, 2014#131

Hailey Knight

Naiwen said:
And who gave the US the right to say what's fair and what's not? And to define for others what's wrong and what's right?

We did. America gave itself the right.

Why do you ask questions to which you already know the answer?

Mar 20, 2014#132

GasBandit

Mar 20, 2014#133

Dave

Naiwen said:
And who gave the US the right to say what's fair and what's not? And to define for others what's wrong and what's right?

You know he was fucking with you, right? We've all pretty much stated that our country isn't perfect, but that wasn't enough. And since you're not going to get outright condemnation of America, you're not satisfied.

So now it's devolved inot poking at you with verbal sticks. With the exception of maybe Chad, who seems to have a Quixote complex. (Which is perfectly fine, I've tilted a windmill or two myself.)

Mar 20, 2014#134

Chad Sexington

Naiwen said:
And just because America says it's wrong, it doesn't mean it's wrong then, because it doesn't have the right to decide for others.

That doesn't answer the question though. Who should have the right? If no one has the right, then no one has the right to say that America is wrong, either.

Mar 20, 2014#135

Hailey Knight

Remember when America went to Germany and oppressed the Nazis?

Good times.

Mar 20, 2014#136

Krisken

Wait, what the hell did I miss?

Mar 20, 2014#137

GasBandit

Dave said:
You know he was fucking with you, right? We've all pretty much stated that our country isn't perfect, but that wasn't enough. And since you're not going to get outright condemnation of America, you're not satisfied.

I've just been waiting for the right moment to bust out with "So if America is so bad, and China is so good, why did your family move to Diet America?"

So now it's devolved inot poking at you with verbal sticks. With the exception of maybe Chad, who seems to have a Quixote complex. (Which is perfectly fine, I've tilted a windmill or two myself.)

Would a teenaged chinese expatriate anglophobe anglophile know a Man of La Mancha reference, I wonder?

Mar 20, 2014#138

Tiger Tsang

Is it just me, or does it seem like Naiwen is Charlie dressing up his White Knighting for various causes in Yellow face, or something similar? Or Gilgamesh parodying Charlie? Heheh, who knows?

Mar 20, 2014#139

Gilgamesh

Tiger Tsang said:
Is it just me, or does it seem like Naiwen is Charlie dressing up his White Knighting for various causes in Yellow face, or something similar? Or Gilgamesh parodying Charlie? Heheh, who knows?

Oh gods no, I could never write comedy like Charliwen.

Mar 21, 2014#140

WasabiPoptart

I thought this was another "It's not America, it's the United States" argument. Four pages later and...why did I read this?

Mar 21, 2014#141

grub

I was wondering the same thing. We don't need this kind of drama.

Mar 21, 2014#142

Ravenpoe

grub said:
I was wondering the same thing. We don't need this kind of drama.

You shut your mouth. This thread has been glorious.

Mar 21, 2014#143

Frank

I was listening to this song while reading this thread. It worked so well.

Interesting (in no way), I have a butt ton of female asian friends, but I've never slept with any. I'm such a white racist.

THE CHANCES ARE THINNING.
I DODGE BULLETS WHEN I'M SPINNING!

DON'T SHOOT ME, I'M DANCING.
DON'T SHOOT ME WHEN I'M DANCING.
CAN'T STOP THE TOP!

Mar 21, 2014#144

Covar

I think for official context you should use United States, but in general America is perfectly fine. For those who get all butthurt about it it's short for United States of America, just like how Soccer is short of Association Football.

... oh

...OH

You know what I like fellow white guys? People wanting to punish you for something that took place generations before your family even came to this country.

Mar 21, 2014#145

Terrik

Covar said:
I think for official context you should use United States, but in general America is perfectly fine. For those who get all butthurt about it it's short for United States of America, just like how Soccer is short of Association Football.

... oh

...OH

You know what I like fellow white guys? People wanting to punish you for something that took place generations before your family even came to this country.

And then being indignant when you bring up their own sordid history.

Mar 21, 2014#146

blotsfan

America. Great country? Or the greatest country?

Mar 21, 2014#147

Chad Sexington

Dave said:
You know he was fucking with you, right? We've all pretty much stated that our country isn't perfect, but that wasn't enough. And since you're not going to get outright condemnation of America, you're not satisfied.

So now it's devolved inot poking at you with verbal sticks. With the exception of maybe Chad, who seems to have a Quixote complex. (Which is perfectly fine, I've tilted a windmill or two myself.)

Good metaphor. I should reference Quixote more often in my life.

Mar 21, 2014#148

Krisken

I guess I don't understand what was hoped to be achieved here by the OP.

Mar 21, 2014#149

GasBandit

Frank said:
CAN'T STOP THE TOP!

I love me some Megas. That one and Don't Mess With Magnet Man are my two favorites.

Mar 21, 2014#150

Tinwhistler

Here's what I get out of this thread:

Naiwen: "The americans are bullies because they sanction China over Taiwan and Tibet!"

China Vows Sanctions Over U.S. Defense Sales to Taiwan
China sanctions lawyers who offered help to Tibetans
China threatens 'consequences' for Dalai Lama meetings

Oh wait, let me try again...

"They sanction Russia over Crimea!"

EU imposes new sanctions against Russia after Putin signs bill annexing Crimea
Japan Imposes Sanctions on Russia Over Crimea
Canada imposes sanctions against Crimean and Russian officials
Australia imposes sanctions on Russia after it 'steals' Crimea from Ukraine

Yup. This appears to be a completely black and white issue...

Mar 21, 2014#151

GasBandit

Tinwhistler said:
Here's what I get out of this thread:

Naiwen: "The americans are bullies because they sanction China over Taiwan and Tibet!"

China Vows Sanctions Over U.S. Defense Sales to Taiwan
China sanctions lawyers who offered help to Tibetans
China threatens 'consequences' for Dalai Lama meetings

Oh wait, let me try again...

"They sanction Russia over Crimea!"

EU imposes new sanctions against Russia after Putin signs bill annexing Crimea
Japan Imposes Sanctions on Russia Over Crimea
Canada imposes sanctions against Crimean and Russian officials
Australia imposes sanctions on Russia after it 'steals' Crimea from Ukraine

Yup. This appears to be a completely black and white issue...

Mar 21, 2014#152

Chad Sexington

GasBandit said:

That's the weirdest gloryhole I've ever seen.

Mar 21, 2014#153

Terrik

America *is* a bully--but so is every other great power.

Mar 21, 2014#154

GasBandit

Slaves would by Tyrants had they but the chance. - Victor Hugo

Mar 21, 2014#155

Terrik

GasBandit said:
Slaves would by Tyrants had they but the chance. - Victor Hugo

Welcome to the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

Mar 21, 2014#156

Tinwhistler

GasBandit said:

壁觀

Mar 21, 2014#157

Terrik

0_o

Mar 21, 2014#158

GasBandit

鬼佬

Mar 21, 2014#159

Dei

Guys, I'm American, I don't speak these weird foreign languages, stop it! Speak English or gtfo!

Mar 21, 2014#160

Dave

Dei said:
Guys, I'm American, I don't speak these weird foreign languages, stop it! Speak English or gtfo!

Non.

Mar 21, 2014#161

Tinwhistler

Dei said:
Guys, I'm American, I don't speak these weird foreign languages, stop it! Speak English or gtfo!

I gazed at the wall, and came away enlightened

Mar 21, 2014#162

Hailey Knight

I'm sure this thread's glory will continue, once OP gets home from middle school.

Mar 21, 2014#163

Frank

You guys are being super mean to Naiwen.

She only hates America, I think, cut her some slack.

Mar 21, 2014#164

GasBandit

You all know quite well I haven't even started being mean yet.

Mar 21, 2014#165

Covar

Frank said:
You guys are being super mean to Naiwen.

She only hates America, I think, cut her some slack.

You only say that because you're a white Canadian.

Mar 21, 2014#166

Frank

Covar said:
You only say that because you're a white Canadian.

I'll have you know I'm technically mixed race. I have the card to prove it!

Mar 21, 2014#167

GasBandit

Frank said:
I'll have you know I'm technically mixed race. I have the card to prove it!

A Mahalo Rewards card?

Mar 21, 2014#168

Frank

Metis card, but basically the same thing.

Mar 21, 2014#169

blotsfan

GasBandit said:
A Mahalo Rewards card?

Mar 21, 2014#170

Hailey Knight

Dammit, still no Naiwen. Well, guess I'll have to pick up the slack.

I know you are, but what am I?

There, that was appropriately juvenile.

Mar 21, 2014#171

ThatNickGuy

I think it's astonishing just how many times we pointed out that Naiwen was not only insulting/attacking us but blatantly ignoring our perfectly well-thought out counter-arguments. Which they then ignored because they disagreed? I don't buy that argument. I don't think they know HOW to respond in a respectful, tactful manner.

I mean, what's the point of starting the thread in the first place, masking it with the idea of a civil debate over American foreign policies, only to ignore any counter-arguments? Me, I don't get involved in these sorts of debates because 1) I can't debate for crap and 2) I'm not well-educated on politics, foreign or otherwise, or know where to find links to support said arguments.

Mar 21, 2014#172

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
I think it's astonishing just how many times we pointed out that Naiwen was not only insulting/attacking us but blatantly ignoring our perfectly well-thought out counter-arguments. Which they then ignored because they disagreed? I don't buy that argument. I don't think they know HOW to respond in a respectful, tactful manner.

I mean, what's the point of starting the thread in the first place, masking it with the idea of a civil debate over American foreign policies, only to ignore any counter-arguments? Me, I don't get involved in these sorts of debates because 1) I can't debate for crap and 2) I'm not well-educated on politics, foreign or otherwise, or know where to find links to support said arguments.

I am rubber and you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

Mar 21, 2014#173

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
I am rubber and you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

Yeah well, so's your face.

Mar 21, 2014#174

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
Yeah well, so's your face.

Nuh-uh.

Mar 21, 2014#175

Krisken

ThatNickGuy said:
Yeah well, so's your face.

See, you're as good at it as the rest of us!

Mar 21, 2014#176

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
Nuh-uh.

Yuh huh! You're a butt face! You have a face that is like a butt!

Mar 22, 2014#177

GasBandit

How appropriate, you fight like a cow.

Mar 22, 2014#178

ScytheRexx

I came to this thread hoping to get an answer to the timeless question, and I think at long last I have!

Mar 22, 2014#179

Bowielee

Mar 22, 2014#180

ThatNickGuy

Show of hands. Who's disappointed she didn't come back for another round?

Mar 22, 2014#181

Krisken

I didn't expect the person who was stuck in their preconceived national biases to end up being the one who took the high road, if that's what you mean.

Mar 22, 2014#182

Hailey Knight

If by high road, you mean the person who created the thread bailed on it when asked to explain their accusations of close-mindedness after demonstrating close-mindedness?

'Cause that's exactly what I expected.

Mar 22, 2014#183

Krisken

No, I mean when things got nasty they decided not to keep playing. Only one person tried to combat their ignorance with discussion. Everyone else did what we always do.

Mar 22, 2014#184

Gilgamesh

Krisken said:
No, I mean when things got nasty they decided not to keep playing. Only one person tried to combat their ignorance with discussion. Everyone else did what we always do.

Several people tried to discuss multiple times first, after they refused outright and said they weren't going to bother changing their mind, then we did what we always do. Nice attempt at berating though.

Mar 22, 2014#185

Krisken

Gilgamesh said:
Several people tried to discuss multiple times first, after they refused outright and said they weren't going to bother changing their mind, then we did what we always do. Nice attempt at berating though.

I guess since it went 6 pages and some felt it wasn't enough, I wasn't impressed by the initial attempts.

Nice attempt yourself

Mar 22, 2014#186

Hailey Knight

Krisken said:
No, I mean when things got nasty they decided not to keep playing. Only one person tried to combat their ignorance with discussion. Everyone else did what we always do.

Tress
Chad Sexington
Dei posted an article
GasBandit started peaceful
Reverent-one wasn't being nasty
Dave

Come to think of it, I was the first one to open my posts with other shit--those before me started with discussion and some of them then shifted. You can't give a bunch of others credit for my not having a discussion.[DOUBLEPOST=1395549681,1395549589][/DOUBLEPOST]

Krisken said:
I guess since it went 6 pages and some felt it wasn't enough, I wasn't impressed by the initial attempts.

Yes, how dare people react with anything but the utmost respect to the person who treats their polite posts like shit.

Mar 22, 2014#187

Gilgamesh

Zero Esc said:
Tress
Chad Sexington
Dei posted an article
GasBandit started peaceful
Reverent-one wasn't being nasty
Dave

Come to think of it, I was the first one to open my posts with other shit--those before me started with discussion and some of them then shifted. You can't give a bunch of others credit for my not having a discussion.

I also attempt a civil question before.

So yeah @Krisken , I think it's proven that you saying only one of us tried and the rest of us are shit flinging monkeys falls short.

Mar 22, 2014#188

Krisken

Zero Esc said:
Tress
Chad Sexington
Dei posted an article
GasBandit started peaceful
Reverent-one wasn't being nasty
Dave

Come to think of it, I was the first one to open my posts with other shit--those before me started with discussion and some of them then shifted. You can't give a bunch of others credit for my not having a discussion.

And perhaps it's because I came to the party late or still see people trying to troll the OP into responding.

Oh, and everyone knows I ignore Gas

[DOUBLEPOST=1395549762,1395549703][/DOUBLEPOST]

Gilgamesh said:
I also attempt a civil question before.

So yeah @Krisken , I think it's proven that you saying only one of us tried and the rest of us are shit flinging monkeys falls short.

Fine, a bunch of you tried before I showed up, then you all became shit flinging monkeys. Happy?

Mar 22, 2014#189

Hailey Knight

Krisken said:
And perhaps it's because I came to the party late or still see people trying to troll the OP into responding.

Oh, and everyone knows I ignore Gas

I think you should go back to earlier pages and look over them before making the assumption that only one person was trying.

I didn't know you ignore Gas, but that only makes it all the more important not to assume--you have no idea what he's posting under there. There could be hidden kittens.[DOUBLEPOST=1395549896,1395549825][/DOUBLEPOST]

Krisken said:
Fine, a bunch of you tried before I showed up, then you all became shit flinging monkeys. Happy?

I think that's a conclusion we can all accept: Everyone was engaged in civil discourse before Krisken showed up, and his presence transformed us into shit flinging monkeys.

It's all your fault!

Mar 22, 2014#190

Gilgamesh

Krisken said:
Fine, a bunch of you tried before I showed up, then you all became shit flinging monkeys. Happy?

Yep.

Mar 22, 2014#191

Krisken

Zero Esc said:
I think you should go back to earlier pages and look over them before making the assumption that only one person was trying.

I didn't know you ignore Gas, but that only makes it all the more important not to assume--you have no idea what he's posting under there. There could be hidden kittens.[DOUBLEPOST=1395549896,1395549825][/DOUBLEPOST]

I think that's a conclusion we can all accept: Everyone was engaged in civil discourse before Krisken showed up, and his presence transformed us into shit flinging monkeys.

It's all your fault!

I should have known! Damn this curse!

Mar 23, 2014#192

SpecialKO

ThatNickGuy said:
Who's disappointed she didn't come back for another round?

*ahem*

*breath spray*

*inhales deeply*

JUST LIKE YOUR PROM NIGHT!

Mar 23, 2014#193

Ravenpoe

So, this might help bring some insight into our newest vocal member. Her blog from socially uncensored. Seems our @Naiwen found us after being banned from there.

http://www.sociallyuncensored.eu/forums/xfa-blogs/mscerez.10307/

We're much more willing to listen to ramblings than ban, though. So let the fun continue.

Mar 23, 2014#194

LordRendar

For what it is worth, I like americans. your secret services not so much.
Am greatfull that you kicked our butt in the second world war but maybe stop pressing your ear
against our door and try listening in on our conversations with our friends.
We arent plotting at getting back at you, we just were ordering some pizza and inviting people over,
we would invite you, but then it would get all weird.

Mar 23, 2014#195

Krisken

Is that a song lyric? It feels like song lyrics.

Mar 23, 2014#196

LordRendar

Im tired drunk. And no,just ramblings.
You know, Germany, EU, NSA scandals...
It is like a metaphor,man...

Mar 23, 2014#197

GasBandit

LordRendar said:
For what it is worth, I like americans. your secret services not so much.
Am greatfull that you kicked our butt in the second world war but maybe stop pressing your ear
against our door and try listening in on our conversations with our friends.
We arent plotting at getting back at you, we just were ordering some pizza and inviting people over,
we would invite you, but then it would get all weird.

Yeah, we Americans don't like that part either.

Mar 23, 2014#198

Krisken

Well, weird government's and all, I'd drink with ya. Whether it got weird or not would be up to whoever showed up, really.

Deep down we're just people. And people are people.

Mar 24, 2014#199

Just Me

Krisken said:
Well, weird government's and all, I'd drink with ya. Whether it got weird or not would be up to whoever showed up, really.

Deep down we're just people. And people are people.

Please, please invite me too. Luckily enough we don't have to send out invites to all the government agencies by ourselves...

Mar 24, 2014#200

Krisken

Just Me said:
Please, please invite me too. Luckily enough we don't have to send out invites to all the government agencies by ourselves...

That's because they already know about the party.

Mar 24, 2014#201

Just Me

Krisken said:
That's because they already know about the party.

In Soviet Russia party finds you, but everwhere else intelligence agencies don't need party invites.

Sorry for very bad punning, can't think much more (or waste more time) while at work.

Also waving a friendly 'Hi!" to whoever is listening in, please don't tell my boss!

Mar 24, 2014#202

ScytheRexx

Deep down we're just people. And people are people.

Mar 24, 2014#203

Necronic

Man, can't believe I missed this thread. Too bad her government found out about her posting in an American forum and sent her to a re-education camp.

Mar 24, 2014#204

Ravenpoe

Necronic said:
Man, can't believe I missed this thread. Too bad her government found out about her posting in an American forum and sent her to a re-education camp.

Well, Canada -is- socialist, and any white imperialist american can tell you how evil socialists are.

Mar 27, 2014#205

Dei

Mar 28, 2014#206

GasBandit

I just had to bump this thread one more time.

Mar 28, 2014#207

Ravenpoe

I'm sad now that @Naiwen still checks the board every day but no longer posts. Oh well.

Mar 28, 2014#208

Necronic

Ravenpoe said:
Well, Canada -is- socialist, and any white imperialist american can tell you how evil socialists are.

Ah, I assumed she was Chinese based on some of the Tibet comments I saw from her.

Mar 28, 2014#209

grub

Chinese-Canadian, commu-socialist?

Mar 28, 2014#210

GasBandit

Necronic said:
Ah, I assumed she was Chinese based on some of the Tibet comments I saw from her.

She is, or claims to be. Her family moved from China to Canada, apparently.

Apr 2, 2014#211

Officer_Charon

Sweet Jesus... how did I miss the deliciousness that is this thread?!

Apr 2, 2014#212

Tress

Apr 2, 2014#213

GasBandit

'MERICA!

Apr 3, 2014#214

sixpackshaker

Man, that reminds me about the time I got to light a fire to burn off a 10 acre oil spill. The East Texas Air Quality Board said that we could burn it for 30 minutes.... heh. I guess they never saw that much oil burn at one time. Once it got cooking, the flames alone were a good 50 feet into the air.

Apr 3, 2014#215

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
Man, that reminds me about the time I got to light a fire to burn off a 10 acre oil spill. The East Texas Air Quality Board said that we could burn it for 30 minutes.... heh. I guess they never saw that much oil burn at one time. Once it got cooking, the flames alone were a good 50 feet into the air.

Ha ha ha ha.. what'd they expect you to do to put it out? Drown Texas?

Apr 3, 2014#216

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
Ha ha ha ha.. what'd they expect you to do to put it out? Drown Texas?

I asked our pusher how we were going to put it out after 30 minutes, "We're not." Then he handed me some rags, a coat hanger and gasoline.

Apr 3, 2014#217

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
I asked our pusher how we were going to put it out after 30 minutes, "We're not." Then he handed me some rags, a coat hanger and gasoline.

I LOVE THIS STATE.

Apr 3, 2014#218

Chad Sexington

sixpackshaker said:
I asked our pusher how we were going to put it out after 30 minutes, "We're not." Then he handed me some rags, a coat hanger and gasoline.

GasBandit said:
I LOVE THIS STATE.

I am in the wrong place

Apr 3, 2014#219

sixpackshaker

I miss the oilfield sometimes. Our "gang" had a "pusher," "joints" were 20 feet long, and "dope" came in 5 gallon buckets.

Apr 3, 2014#220

Necronic

I really despise how our industry deals with spills. Either burn it or hit it with a surfactant and dissolve it into the ocean. Both of which are horrendous for the environment.

Apr 3, 2014#221

drifter