Export thread

Recently, the Texas school board approved changes to the curriculum. Some of the stranger changes included:

20 years ago, when I was in school, the US government was described as a "Constitutional republic" and not "democratic". I think it's a more accurate description

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

A constitutional republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens.

In a constitutional republic, executive, legislative, and judicial powers are separated into distinct branches and the will of the majority of the population is tempered by protections for individual rights so that no individual or group has absolute power.

Click to expand...

Those other changes? Fucked up.

Woah, forget revisionist history.. Texas is going for revisionist reality.

Tinwhistler said:

20 years ago, when I was in school, the US government was described as a "Constitutional republic" and not "democratic". I think it's a more accurate description

Click to expand...

That's what the CIA factbook calls the US: "Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition"

For comparison it calls Canada "a parliamentary democracy, a federation, and a Commonwealth realm."

I guess the thing to take from that would be a single term is not enough to accurately describe our countries.

I suppose that is a minor thing, really. It's not like most people know what those terms mean, anyways.

That sounds like you're advocating dumbing dumb education. "no one knows what Constitutional Republic means so lets not bother telling our students either."

Not really what I meant. I'm saying people are so misinformed on what these terms mean you could say it's just about anything. Hell, the world laughs at Americans for thinking Obama is a Socialist.

Texas, how I love thee, let me count the ways...... um..... yeah. Zero?

I cant believe the constitutional republic thing is what people are focusing on in this thread. The other things are pretty horrible.

makare1 said:

I cant believe the constitutional republic thing is what people are focusing on in this thread. The other things are pretty horrible.

Click to expand...

I agree. Thomas Jefferson is pretty horrible. Worse even than his neighbour, Archie Bunker.

Gruebeard;354042][QUOTE=makare1 said:

I cant believe the constitutional republic thing is what people are focusing on in this thread. The other things are pretty horrible.

Click to expand...

I agree. Thomas Jefferson is pretty horrible. Worse even than his neighbour, Archie Bunker.[/QUOTE]

....funny.


The gender issue is what pisses me off. That kind of misguided thinking just leads to hate and mistrust. The country takes two steps forward and Texas takes three steps back. Excellent.

What worries me is that they replaced him with John Calvin and removed reference to the Establishment clause. That's worrying more than anything else.

Then again, Texas has Cynthia Dunbar as the possible head of the BoE, the woman who stated every public official needs to pass a biblical litmus test

WolfOfOdin said:

a biblical litmus test

Click to expand...

The bible turns red when dipped in your blood? Pretty damn easy test to pass, I'd say.

Gruebeard;354047][QUOTE=WolfOfOdin said:

a biblical litmus test

Click to expand...

The bible turns red when dipped in your blood? Pretty damn easy test to pass, I'd say.[/QUOTE]

Didn't you know those heathen lib'rals bleed blue?

What are the odds of these school board changes being challenged in court, and what are the odds of such a challenge succeeding?

Oh those crazy Texans, what will they do next.

Their sister

Krisken said:

Recently, the Texas school board approved changes to the curriculum. Some of the stranger changes included:

– To avoid exposing students to “transvestites, transsexuals and who knows what else,” the Board struck the curriculum’s reference to “sex and gender as social constructs.”
– The Board removed Thomas Jefferson from the Texas curriculum, “replacing him with religious right icon John Calvin.”
– The Board refused to require that “students learn that the Constitution prevents the U.S. government from promoting one religion over all others.”
– The Board struck the word “democratic” from the description of the U.S. government, instead terming it a “constitutional republic.”


​

So bizarre.
​

​

Click to expand...

Don't forget the part where they are required to teach that McCarthy was right because of the Verona Papers, or complaining that "The topic of sociology tends to blame society for everything" (hint to Texas: yes that is kind of the point of sociology), or saying that "This critical-thinking stuff is gobbledygook", or removing the word "capitalism" from Economics courses because they think it is a negative term,

Honestly though, high school history is fucked up in general (even in AP courses). The only way any student can get a proper education in history in America is by either having a really good teacher (this means "a history teacher who will chuck out the textbook and completely write their own curriculum without letting in biases but while still covering important topics not normally covered such as how social class affects history, or problems with the actions of American heroes, etc, etc, etc").

I consider myself open minded and well educated, so it was a pretty damn big shock to me when I took a history of medicine class last semester and found out about something that I've hardly heard of called the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment (I had heard the name and knew that it was a study of syphilis in blacks where they weren't given proper treatment, but I never knew the extent of it or for how long it lasted), or pretty much the entirety of the American Eugenics movement.

Every student should really read "Lies My Teacher Told Me". It's a great book that sums up a lot of the problems with high school level American history textbooks (mainly, that they lie by omission, outright lie, sugarcoat the truth, and are really freaking boring).

EDIT

To preempt GasBandit's next "experts say" post that actually turns out to be a shoddily written opinion piece from an incredibly right-wing biased source: Here's what Fox News has to say on the matter

JONJONAUG said:

To preempt GasBandit's next \\"experts say\\" post that actually turns out to be a shoddily written opinion piece from an incredibly right-wing biased source: Here's what Fox News has to say on the matter

Click to expand...

Again, that’s part of why the liberals attack. They don’t like the concept of American exceptionalism, both by those who were born here and by the other great high-skilled men and women who are so attracted to the United States that they moved here from other countries.

Click to expand...

Yes, Einstein was so attracted to the U.S. he just HAD to move. Nothing to do with Hitler...

I don't know why I clicked that link. I can't tell the bullshit from the ignorance.

JONJONAUG said:

I consider myself open minded and well educated, so it was a pretty damn big shock to me when I took a history of medicine class last semester and found out about something that I've hardly heard of called the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment (I had heard the name and knew that it was a study of syphilis in blacks where they weren't given proper treatment, but I never knew the extent of it or for how long it lasted), or pretty much the entirety of the American Eugenics movement.

Click to expand...

Have you read the book Mad in America? If you haven't, you definitely should. I had to put it down a few times while reading, because it made me so sick. It's basically a history of mental illness, and how it was dealt with throughout history in America.

That book is solely responsible for my love of Quakers, incidentally.

JONJONAUG said:

or removing the word "capitalism" from Economics courses because they think it is a negative term,

Click to expand...

Well considering who first used it* one could see why (hint - he also invented communism).

But learning history from school will leave you with BS idea in most places... especially the history of the country you're in.


*ok, it's more like popularised it, but whatever

But..but! If they learn about OTHER systems, they might see the flaws in their own!

faux news said:

Again, that’s part of why the liberals attack. They don’t like the concept of American exceptionalism as the state religion

Click to expand...

Fixed that for them.

For so-called free market champions, they don't seem to be realize that superiority isn't a god-given right, it's something you have to constantly work at to maintain.

Hey, hae we mentioned that the amendments also attempt to rehabilitate McCarthyism, among other things? Because they totally do.

You mean, you guys kept seeing the stupidly liberal bias of textbooks getting worse and worse every year, and were smug in your assessment that the pendulum would never swing equally far in the other direction one day?

makare1;354044][QUOTE=Gruebeard;354042][QUOTE=makare1 said:

I cant believe the constitutional republic thing is what people are focusing on in this thread. The other things are pretty horrible.

Click to expand...

I agree. Thomas Jefferson is pretty horrible. Worse even than his neighbour, Archie Bunker.[/QUOTE]

....funny.


The gender issue is what pisses me off. That kind of misguided thinking just leads to hate and mistrust. The country takes two steps forward and Texas takes three steps back. Excellent.[/QUOTE]

The sad thing is, for most of its history Texas has been one of the more progressive states. I'd give my left nut, to have another Governor Hogg.

GasBandit said:

You mean, you guys kept seeing the stupidly liberal bias of textbooks getting worse and worse every year, and were smug in your assessment that the pendulum would never swing equally far in the other direction one day?

Click to expand...

I apologize for the fact that reality has a liberal bias.

A Troll;355262][QUOTE=GasBandit said:

You mean, you guys kept seeing the stupidly liberal bias of textbooks getting worse and worse every year, and were smug in your assessment that the pendulum would never swing equally far in the other direction one day?

Click to expand...

I apologize for the fact that reality has a liberal bias.[/QUOTE]

Got there before I could. Jesus Christ, gas.

Meh, he's just trying to divert from the stupidity of the decision by trying to make something else the topic. Pretty typical, really.

A Troll;355262][QUOTE=GasBandit said:

You mean, you guys kept seeing the stupidly liberal bias of textbooks getting worse and worse every year, and were smug in your assessment that the pendulum would never swing equally far in the other direction one day?

Click to expand...

I apologize for the fact that reality has a liberal bias.[/QUOTE]
Might want to ask Greece about that. Or the state governments of california and new york. There's your "reality with a liberal bias."

Krisken said:

Meh, he's just trying to divert from the stupidity of the decision by trying to make something else the topic. Pretty typical, really.

Click to expand...

Oh, Texans I weep for the future of their children.

GasBandit;355570][QUOTE=A Troll;355262][QUOTE=GasBandit said:

You mean, you guys kept seeing the stupidly liberal bias of textbooks getting worse and worse every year, and were smug in your assessment that the pendulum would never swing equally far in the other direction one day?

Click to expand...

I apologize for the fact that reality has a liberal bias.[/QUOTE]
Might want to ask Greece about that. Or the state governments of california and new york. There's your "reality with a liberal bias."[/QUOTE]


Really Gas? Because the majority party and president of Greece, Karolos Papoulias,belong to the Panhellenic Socialist Movement. In fact, Greece formed their socialist government in the 1980's, after the final fall of the firecely arch-conservative and near facist military junta that ruled the country till around the late 60's, was a near charter member of the EU (oh god big government!) and has an icnredibly high Human Development Index.

Furthermore, New Democracy, the center-right opposition party to the Panhellenic Socialist Movement, was butchered in the 2009 elections, recording their lowest voter turnout ever.


But back to the matter at hand;

Kids in schools should learn the full truth of their country, the vile and the saintly. You can't really love your nation unless you realize it has flaws and that by loving it, you're helping to fix them.

WolfOfOdin;356254][QUOTE=GasBandit;355570][QUOTE=A Troll;355262][QUOTE=GasBandit said:

You mean, you guys kept seeing the stupidly liberal bias of textbooks getting worse and worse every year, and were smug in your assessment that the pendulum would never swing equally far in the other direction one day?

Click to expand...

I apologize for the fact that reality has a liberal bias.[/QUOTE]
Might want to ask Greece about that. Or the state governments of california and new york. There's your "reality with a liberal bias."[/QUOTE]


Really Gas? Because the majority party and president of Greece, Karolos Papoulias,belong to the Panhellenic Socialist Movement. In fact, Greece formed their socialist government in the 1980's, after the final fall of the firecely arch-conservative and near facist military junta that ruled the country till around the late 60's, was a near charter member of the EU (oh god big government!) and has an icnredibly high Human Development Index.

Furthermore, New Democracy, the center-right opposition party to the Panhellenic Socialist Movement, was butchered in the 2009 elections, recording their lowest voter turnout ever.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, that was kind of my point. Greece is uber leftist. And now it's spiraling down the economic crapper, and the people are demonstrating in the streets that they have a right to their entitlements.

Or all those foreclosed neighborhoods. Or hyperpolluted city areas. Or zero mobility working classes. Or pretty much the whole robber baron era. That's your reality with a conservative bias.

Welcome to the New Gilded Age...

fade said:

Or all those foreclosed neighborhoods. Or hyperpolluted city areas. Or zero mobility working classes. Or pretty much the whole robber baron era. That's your reality with a conservative bias.

Click to expand...

Except the foreclosures were caused by liberal federal social engineering, hyperpollution wasn't exclusive to conservative areas or eras, income mobility has been highest during periods of conservative policy, and I'll see your robber barons and raise you communist bread lines.

Regardless of when foreclosed neighborhoods were an issue, Republicans were trying there damnest to regulate mortgages and were getting shut down.

Dei said:

Regardless of when foreclosed neighborhoods were an issue, Republicans were trying there damnest to regulate mortgages and were getting shut down.

Click to expand...

I thought it was Republican deregulation that caused the Housing crisis.

Covar;356384][QUOTE=Dei said:

Regardless of when foreclosed neighborhoods were an issue, Republicans were trying there damnest to regulate mortgages and were getting shut down.

Click to expand...

I thought it was Republican deregulation that caused the Housing crisis.[/QUOTE]

The truth is probably not quite so cut and dried
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...crisis-republican-deregulation-ignores-overwh

Yes, this [The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999] was introduced by three Republicans. However, what Maddow conveniently ignored is that it passed the Senate by a vote of 90-8 with 38 Democrats saying "Yea"; it passed in the House 362-57 with 153 Democrats saying "Yea".

Click to expand...

GasBandit;356311][QUOTE=fade said:

Or all those foreclosed neighborhoods. Or hyperpolluted city areas. Or zero mobility working classes. Or pretty much the whole robber baron era. That's your reality with a conservative bias.

Click to expand...

Except the foreclosures were caused by liberal federal social engineering, hyperpollution wasn't exclusive to conservative areas or eras, income mobility has been highest during periods of conservative policy, and I'll see your robber barons and raise you communist bread lines.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that you at least had a chance to get bread from the line. The Baron would give you nothing, unless you were using his funny money (which only worked at the mining camp and at the stores of his close friends) to buy it... and you had to buy it from him, at HIS price.

AshburnerX;356417][QUOTE=GasBandit;356311][QUOTE=fade said:

Or all those foreclosed neighborhoods. Or hyperpolluted city areas. Or zero mobility working classes. Or pretty much the whole robber baron era. That's your reality with a conservative bias.

Click to expand...

Except the foreclosures were caused by liberal federal social engineering, hyperpollution wasn't exclusive to conservative areas or eras, income mobility has been highest during periods of conservative policy, and I'll see your robber barons and raise you communist bread lines.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that you at least had a chance to get bread from the line. The Baron would give you nothing, unless you were using his funny money (which only worked at the mining camp and at the stores of his close friends) to buy it... and you had to buy it from him, at HIS price.[/QUOTE]

Except there were a lot more people suffering soviet shortages than working for robber barons.

GasBandit;356478][QUOTE=AshburnerX;356417][QUOTE=GasBandit;356311][QUOTE=fade said:

Or all those foreclosed neighborhoods. Or hyperpolluted city areas. Or zero mobility working classes. Or pretty much the whole robber baron era. That's your reality with a conservative bias.

Click to expand...

Except the foreclosures were caused by liberal federal social engineering, hyperpollution wasn't exclusive to conservative areas or eras, income mobility has been highest during periods of conservative policy, and I'll see your robber barons and raise you communist bread lines.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that you at least had a chance to get bread from the line. The Baron would give you nothing, unless you were using his funny money (which only worked at the mining camp and at the stores of his close friends) to buy it... and you had to buy it from him, at HIS price.[/QUOTE]

Except there were a lot more people suffering soviet shortages than working for robber barons.[/QUOTE]

If it were not for the cruel hand of the Robber Barons the Communists would have never had the clout to take over any nation.

Basically anyone with a Factory Job from 1845 to 1930 worked for the Robber Barons. I mean anywhere in the world. So I'll assume your assumptions are a bit off.

sixpackshaker;356482][QUOTE=GasBandit;356478][QUOTE=AshburnerX;356417][QUOTE=GasBandit;356311][QUOTE=fade said:

Or all those foreclosed neighborhoods. Or hyperpolluted city areas. Or zero mobility working classes. Or pretty much the whole robber baron era. That's your reality with a conservative bias.

Click to expand...

Except the foreclosures were caused by liberal federal social engineering, hyperpollution wasn't exclusive to conservative areas or eras, income mobility has been highest during periods of conservative policy, and I'll see your robber barons and raise you communist bread lines.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that you at least had a chance to get bread from the line. The Baron would give you nothing, unless you were using his funny money (which only worked at the mining camp and at the stores of his close friends) to buy it... and you had to buy it from him, at HIS price.[/QUOTE]

Except there were a lot more people suffering soviet shortages than working for robber barons.[/QUOTE]

If it were not for the cruel hand of the Robber Barons the Communists would have never had the clout to take over any nation.

Basically anyone with a Factory Job from 1845 to 1930 worked for the Robber Barons. I mean anywhere in the world. So I'll assume your assumptions are a bit off.[/QUOTE]

And I'll assume that your assumptions about my assumptions make an ASS of U and ME

Population of Soviet union - 293 million. Number of distinct factory jobs in 1930 = ?

Well, Gas got what he wanted and derailed this into a debate over how 'da librulz' are evil and incompetent.

Let's bring this back to the real matter at hand please? Rewriting history this way, from the left or the right, is horrific and damn near Orwellian. I don't want to live in a world where students are force-fed idiocy from either wing because it helps them look better.

Honestly? Make Lies my Teacher Told me and The People's History of the United States mandatory reading for high school students. They should learn the horribly ugly side of our nation (institutionalized cultural genocide, crushing poverty during the gilded age and the disgusting result of the Jim Crow laws which permeate parts of our system even to this day) and the absolute wonder that our nation is, a place where dreams can actually come true for some folk.

I'm honestly unsure of how other people are educated in social studies classes. In high school I took some crappy college courses during the summer to make room for other classes during the normal school year, so I have no idea how good/bad classes were at my high school. Now that I'm a teacher, I always make a point of covering everything, good or bad. Is it really that rare for high school teachers to give a complete history of the US?

A Troll said:

I'm honestly unsure of how other people are educated in social studies classes. In high school I took some crappy college courses during the summer to make room for other classes during the normal school year, so I have no idea how good/bad classes were at my high school. Now that I'm a teacher, I always make a point of covering everything, good or bad. Is it really that rare for high school teachers to give a complete history of the US?

Click to expand...

I took honors courses in High School, Troll, so I got the kind of experience you're giving to your students, the good and bad our nation's done. However I perused a friend in normal US History's textbook one day and it was....well the nice way to say it is a fluff-job. Nothing bad happened, just white people founding a nation and everyone being happy.

Of course, only the erm...'remedial' kids took regular history, my HS was insanely proud of how smart its kids were. I do think, however, it's disingenuous to only tell the true history of a nation to the 'smart' kids.

WolfOfOdin;356584][QUOTE=A Troll said:

I'm honestly unsure of how other people are educated in social studies classes. In high school I took some crappy college courses during the summer to make room for other classes during the normal school year, so I have no idea how good/bad classes were at my high school. Now that I'm a teacher, I always make a point of covering everything, good or bad. Is it really that rare for high school teachers to give a complete history of the US?

Click to expand...

I took honors courses in High School, Troll, so I got the kind of experience you're giving to your students, the good and bad our nation's done. However I perused a friend in normal US History's textbook one day and it was....well the nice way to say it is a fluff-job. Nothing bad happened, just white people founding a nation and everyone being happy.

Of course, only the erm...'remedial' kids took regular history, my HS was insanely proud of how smart its kids were. I do think, however, it's disingenuous to only tell the true history of a nation to the 'smart' kids.[/QUOTE]

I think I've been lucky due to my job. I landed a position at a school with some very smart, excellent teachers who insist on making the curriculum as complete as possible, no fluff allowed. I've borrowed quite a few lessons from them on Jim Crow, the Trail of Tears, occupation of the Phillipines, etc. And of course these go right next to lessons on more positive lessons, such as making the Constitution and World War II. We always strive to keep it balanced.

I didn't realize it was that bad most places. Blech.

Oh man, last night i saw Wednesday's Daily Show.... it showed some old lady actually arguing that some guy shouldn't be in a history book because people didn't already know about him like they did about Ghandi or MLKjr.

Of course your education system is screwed up if those are the people in charge...

income mobility has been highest during periods of conservative policy

Click to expand...

Income mobility was at it's highest when you could just kill someone and take everything they had... fortunes where made and lost almost daily. Then someone invented civilisation, and now you're trapped by all sort of liberal agendas... woe is you.

But there's still hope:

WolfOfOdin said:

Make Lies my Teacher Told me and The People's History of the United States mandatory reading

Click to expand...

I haven't read The People's History, but Lies My Teacher Told Me is great reading.

I read that for one of my Education classes. It's great! I gave it as a gift to two of my teacher friends, and they love it too!

GasBandit;356799][QUOTE=WolfOfOdin said:

Make Lies my Teacher Told me and The People's History of the United States mandatory reading

Click to expand...

I haven't read The People's History, but Lies My Teacher Told Me is great reading.[/QUOTE]

It's by Howard Zinn, which shows an American History through the lens of the poor and working class, a bottom-up view instead of a top-down one like we usually get from textbooks.

To quote Zinn,

"I want young people to understand that ours is a beautiful country, but it has been taken over by men who have no respect for human rights or constitutional liberties. Our people are basically decent and caring, and our highest ideals are expressed in the Declaration of Independence, which says that all of us have an equal right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” The history of our country, I point out in my book, is a striving, against corporate robber barons and war makers, to make those ideals a reality — and all of us, of whatever age, can find immense satisfaction in becoming part of that."

Keep in mind I absolutely agree with his views of how wonderful our country can be, and how shamefully it has failed at times.