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Battle.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

Jul 6, 2010#1

ScytheRexx

Not sure if anyone has been keeping up with one of the new features for Battle.net 2.0 (and by extension, WoW), but the new RealID social networking system has been a mixed bag in the Blizzard community.

If you don't know the system, here is a little breakdown. It allows you to speak with a "RealID" friend on any game, server, or faction that uses Battle.net 2.0. It does this by linking you up by your battle.net name, AKA, your REAL name.

You have those that don't mind the system, as it allows better communication with friends, and then you have those that hate the system, and refuse to use it even with friends or family, because of the issues of privacy. It was already a hot button topic since the latest patch.

Well, Blizzard decided to kick this up a notch and really get some hate rolling. They just announced phase two of the RealID system.

The first and most significant change is that in the near future, anyone posting or replying to a post on official Blizzard forums will be doing so using their Real ID -- that is, their real-life first and last name -- with the option to also display the name of their primary in-game character alongside it.

All I can say is, good or bad, this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers. Personally I don't use the forums enough for it to effect me on much of a level, so the whole thing has become a mixed bag in my eyes.

On the one hand, having everyone forced to reveal first and last names is a bit much and opens the door to some heavy privacy concerns. Piss off that guy during your ten page rant about why warlocks suck, and suddenly he could be trying to google your name. That is a scary notion to have someone gain personal knowledge about you.

On the other hand, this will cut down on trolling. And I mean, A LOT. No more can you post on a level 1 alt just to piss people off. This has the chance of making it so only those that are intelligent enough to talk constructively will stick around and help make the game better, rather then a bunch of random guy pissing and moaning about their class/spec/faction not being the best in all situations, while under the veil of anonymity.

Right now, I am leaning more on the side of unnecessary invasion of privacy, and that this system should be tweaked to become more option. There are many other ways Blizzard can remove trolls from the forum, like having a vote system or even just policing themselves a bit more vigorously. Promoting every players real name to the internet every time they post is almost asking for disaster.

Jul 6, 2010#2

Dave

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

As someone who is not that anonymous anyway, this wouldn't affect me. However, if my 16 year daughter wanted to post there I'd tell her it's a bad idea.

I see from where they are coming, but disagree that this is the way to do it. Privacy would be a big, big deal.

Jul 6, 2010#3

sixpackshaker

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

Now would be a good time to link the video of the walrus threatening violence upon her former guild-mates. Those same angry people go to those forums. Actually the WoW forums are quite dead. I looked in on them a couple of weeks ago. I could only find 3-6 threads that had replies in the last 3 months.

Jul 6, 2010#4

Papillon

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

The system was probably designed by a John Smith or Matthew Jones.

As someone with a rare first + last name combination with enough information online to lead back to me very quickly, I would be nervous posting on a game forum with my real name.

Jul 6, 2010#5

Rob King

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

I have, in the past, wished for the death of widespread anonymity on the internet. There are situations in which it is prudent to remain anonymous, but when it comes to screaming teenagers on messageboards I think if their words were connected to their physical bodies even only as far as a legal name, the internet would be a much better place.

Jul 6, 2010#6

Dave

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

In theory I agree with you. But we also have people on the internet who are just plain evil. And do you want them knowing who you are?

Jul 6, 2010#7

Rob King

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

Dave said:
In theory I agree with you. But we also have people on the internet who are just plain evil. And do you want them knowing who you are?

Jul 6, 2010#8

sixpackshaker

Batte.net 2.0 "RealID" Controversy

Rob King;410462][QUOTE=Dave said:
In theory I agree with you. But we also have people on the internet who are just plain evil. And do you want them knowing who you are?

There are people in the world who are just plain evil. What protects me is that I know who they are.

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

All the same, I do see your point.[/QUOTE]

Knowing who has the beef against you does not do you any good, until AFTER they do something. Then how would you or law enforcement know which individual you pissed off?

Jul 7, 2010#9

ScytheRexx

Well the controversy has hit a critical burn. One of the CMs posted his information in a thread defending the system, as an example that giving out your real name was not a big deal. The "Anon" community proceeded to search the internet to find anything they could about him, posting his address, facebook, photobucket, the name of his parents, his car, his phone number, and countless other personal details.

The thing I find most sad about it, is that 99% of the time no one would go through the effort to do what the anon community did to the CM. This was all an effort of retaliation towards the change, using large amount of people to spite the CM. More then anything it shows the one biggest limit to the system, and why Blizzard should reconsider going through with it...

People are assholes.

Jul 7, 2010#10

Soliloquy

May I add that there have numerous instances of people killing others around the world for online happenings?

Jul 7, 2010#11

Telephius

ScytheRexx said:
Well the controversy has hit a critical burn. One of the CMs posted his information in a thread defending the system, as an example that giving out your real name was not a big deal. The "Anon" community proceeded to search the internet to find anything they could about him, posting his address, facebook, photobucket, the name of his parents, his car, his phone number, and countless other personal details.

The thing I find most sad about it, is that 99% of the time no one would go through the effort to do what the anon community did to the CM. This was all an effort of retaliation towards the change, using large amount of people to spite the CM. More then anything it shows the one biggest limit to the system, and why Blizzard should reconsider going through with it...

People are assholes.

Yeah that last line is ultimatly the problem. While the RealID thing will stop the level 1 alt trolls from hiding behind their lowbie toons those level 1 alt trolls are like the amataur trolls who can be normal people venting in a trollish manner and will hate to face criticism in the game server world. The pro trolls will probably still post if they can until they get banned from the forums. Also any creative trolls will just use RealID to annoy people outside the game. Because as you said peole are assholes.

It is sad that the CM got trolled hard but at the same time I have a hard time feeling too sorry for the CM when they(Blizzard) seem to have a willful ignorance about some issues they like to implement. I feel sorry for the CM more so because he probably did not have much decision on the RealID system and is paying the usualy customer face price.

EDIT: I also feel bad if some of the CM's info is someone who as similar info and is being hassled because of this.

Jul 7, 2010#12

Papillon

ScytheRexx said:
The thing I find most sad about it, is that 99% of the time no one would go through the effort to do what the anon community did to the CM.

Effort? My contact info at the lab I was working at for my Master's is on the first page of search results for my full name on Google. There are about 10 households with my last name listed in the phonebook for my city. Google, a telephone and 10 minutes would give you more than you want to know about me. And I have a minimal web presence (not on any social networking websites).

Jul 7, 2010#13

figmentPez

ScytheRexx said:
The thing I find most sad about it, is that 99% of the time no one would go through the effort to do what the anon community did to the CM.

But what happens that other 1% of the time when someone does go all stalker? When someone does have motivation to seek out all that information, what do they do with it? Some fat nerd pissing off some other fat nerd is just the tip of the iceburg. I've known girls who have been stalking victims, and it's not pretty. I really don't like the idea of some young lady getting stalked because some obsessed creep decided "OMG she's a girl who plays Starcraft and she's totally my soulmate because she shares my strategy for countering a Zerg rush!"

---------- Post added at 12:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

Papillon said:
Effort? My contact info at the lab I was working at for my Master's is on the first page of search results for my full name on Google. There are about 10 households with my last name listed in the phonebook for my city. Google, a telephone and 10 minutes would give you more than you want to know about me. And I have a minimal web presence (not on any social networking websites).

It's surprisingly easy. Especially if you've got a unique name. I doubt there are more than a dozen people in the entire country who have the same name as I do. A Google search mostly turns up results for a lawyer who is higher profile, but if you know my state you can find out my age and my entire immediate family (with a misspelling or two). Presumably with a little money you could find out a whole lot more.

Jul 7, 2010#14

Jay

Or they can hire mods.

This system is weak. In my case, if you goggle my name, the entire first page are hits on my shit. Privacy is a huge concern for me. How will I troll anymore?

Jul 7, 2010#15

AshburnerX

Basically, all that is going to happen is that most people will post in forums on a non-official website that allows them to keep their anonymity and then only use the official forums for bug reports and tech support. Blizzard will lack the feedback they need to refine their game and will lose direction in their future updates. Then, they will change the forum system to something that's not stupid.

Jul 7, 2010#16

Dave

Want to know who had a great take on the whole thing? Tim Buckley. This is his blog post from today. Ctrl+Alt+Del - Ctrl+Alt+Del - A troll by any other name... (2010-07-07)

So Blizzard has been setting up their new Battle.net, the umbrella under which all current and future Blizzard games will operate and be played. All of your Blizzard games are tied to your Battle.net account.

A couple of weeks ago, Blizzard implemented a neat feature in the new Battle.net, the Real ID system. The Real ID system is a friends list for your close friends and family whereby no matter what Blizzard game you're in (WoW, Starcraft 2, etc) your friends see you online (listed by your real name), and what game you're in. You can chat cross-game, cross-server and faction (in WoW), and once you add a friend, you can see them no matter what alt they're on or may make any time in the future.

It's a really handy and useful feature, though it took some getting used to. However, yesterday, Blizzard comes along and drops the bomb that the upcoming Starcraft 2 forums, as well as new WoW forums to be implemented before the next expansion, will use the same Real ID system. Meaning that from that point on, all forum posts will be made under your real first and last name.

The reason given, aside from Blizzard's goal to push gaming into a more social experience a la Facebook, was to combat the nuclear levels of trolling and flaming that the WoW forums are known for. If you've spent any time there, you know what I'm talking about. I've commented on it before. Blizzard's theory is that by removing a layer of anonymity, these trolls will be less likely to take their venom and vitriol to such extremes.

Now, let me start with the disclaimer that by and large I am unaffected by this change, and therefore the following opinions are those of an outsider looking in. Not only do I not use the WoW forums, but I don't employ anonymity to any great degree. My name is attached to this website, the comics and the news posts, and I post under my name on forums. Any opinions or thoughts I voice here, insightful or erroneous as they may be, are attached to my name. I don't say anything online that I wouldn't say in person. So the idea of posting on a forum under my real name doesn't phase me in the slightest.
With that said, from a speculative and curiosity standpoint, I'm torn on what to think about this RealID forum system.

On the one hand, I love it. I think it's a riot (it's a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine... I get a kick out of things that make people rage). While deep down I have suspicions that, given the response this has received, Blizzard will rescind its decision, I wish so incredibly much that they follow through with it. I am absolutely dying to see what would happen. Like a bit of a social experiment, I'm interested to see if people leave the forums in a mass exodus. If it promotes a friendlier and more social forum environment. If it spawns stalkers to the degree that everyone is predicting.

I want it to happen, not because I necessarily think it's a good idea (though I'm open to the possibility that it may turn out to be), but more because I think it would be fantastic to see the results.

And I certainly don't mean to belittle anyone's concerns about their full name being revealed. It may not affect me, but I'm positive there are players with incredibly valid reasons to keep their real identity separate from their WoW identity. While some of the posts I've seen are clearly fueled by rage, ignorance and fear-mongering (like the people who think they're the only ones on the planet with their name, or who think that knowing someone's full name immediately leads to having their IP address and social security number), I do believe that people have a right to determine, as much as they can control, who knows their real name online. I think that's a fair expectation.

I don't think people are going to be stalked to the degree they're suggesting, I don't think employers are going to be Googling names to see who has a WoW addiction on the level that they're suggesting. However there are legitimate concerns amongst the uproar. Female gamers, for instance, may face increased harassment or over-the-top "white knighting" as a result of being forced to disclose their gender on the forums.
To be fair, I absolutely do believe that accountability is a step in the right direction for the internet, but this Real ID system takes it a step too far I think. It's needlessly upsetting a great deal of people to achieve something that could be done with a happy middle-ground.

The current WoW forums system has to go, that much is clear. Currently you can choose to post as any of the characters on your WoW account. So people make level one alts to post as, so they can say whatever they want, troll and flame however they want, all without risking their reputation or the reputation of their main characters, the ones they've actually invested time into and play.

If they've got the Battle.net account system in place, why not allow us to choose a single nickname associated with the Battle.net account. Any time you want to post on a Blizzard forum, this is the name that is going to show up. This is the name that you are known by in the Blizzard community, no matter which game, until you decide you've fucked up enough that you need to buy a new account to get a clean slate. And if you're really nasty, Blizzard removes forum permissions for that Bnet account.

Take it one step further, even. Have this Battle.net nickname appear attached to all your in-game WoW characters as well. Keep the Real ID for real friends and families, use this other ID name for everyone else.

It seems to me that would accomplish the same ultimate goal, which is essentially to stop giving people easily removable, easily changeable masks from behind which to act like asshats, yet without using real names which is clearly a hot button for a lot of people (even if their fears may be blown a little out of proportion).

Because frankly, some people are going to troll no matter what, real identity or not. Some of the more cowardly ones will be deterred by the idea of being held accountable for what they say, but you don't necessarily need real names to do that. You just need a system with a constant ID that functions like our names do in real life. Always with you.

Jul 7, 2010#17

sixpackshaker

I can just see some one that is pissed at Blizz cruising the support forums and harassing the people that post there.

I've seen trolls track down message board members to a company, and report their online activity to their boss. And the woman lost her job. I don't think that the member even had a beef with the troll. He/She just wanted to prove how cute/smart they were.

Jul 7, 2010#18

Jay

That makes perfect sense. *stares at his coffee*

Jul 7, 2010#19

Piotyr

I really want to see Blizzard go through with this. Mostly because I'd like to see what actually happens in a forum when anonymity is completely gone. I'm pretty confident that at the least it'd remove 80-90% of the trolling and general dickishness of forum posts, at least at first.

Of course, it could just be replaced by passive-aggressive dickishness, anything a person can hide behind.

Jul 7, 2010#20

ScytheRexx

I agree with Buckley on this, and I really think Blizzard needs to have a "Battle.net ID" that is not tied to ones real name. I know a lot of people that would love to be more liberal with the RealID system, but refuse to do it because it gives out ones real name to everyone. It would also fix many of the issues on the boards without going to the extreme of giving out names for all the trolls to harass.

Come on Blizzard, I know you guys are smarter then this. You are on the line between making an improved, possibly rich community, and destroying what faith you have left with many players by giving out information they don't want to give. It should not be that hard to allow us to pick one single screen-name to be our battle.net persona, it really shouldn't.

Jul 7, 2010#21

sixpackshaker

Hell, I think more people know me by my screen names than know me in real-life.

Jul 7, 2010#22

ElJuski

I hate to say it but I think Buckley has the right idea. There's no way I'd want my real name to be hanging out in the WoW world. All of you boners here that know it is already too much.

Jul 7, 2010#23

AshburnerX

Actually... now that I think about this, it's entirely possibly they are doing this as a means to hinder Gold Selling. Tying a name to an account = Someone to sue if they are found to be selling gold/items/whatever.

Jul 7, 2010#24

Piotyr

While they're at it, they should just show a picture ID for their avatar, remove all transparency.

Jul 7, 2010#25

ScytheRexx

AshburnerX said:
Actually... now that I think about this, it's entirely possibly they are doing this as a means to hinder Gold Selling. Tying a name to an account = Someone to sue if they are found to be selling gold/items/whatever.

This is already possible. Blizzard can already see our name no matter what character we use to play or post. Ever since the change to Battle.net 2.0 all our information for all Blizzard games are tied together under our e-mail and real name. All this change does, is show our real name to the public on the curtain rather then only Blizzard able to see it behind the curtain.

Even so, this change will do nothing to hamper Gold Sellers, since they don't actually play the game using any real information. If they buy an account, they pay with pre-paid cards and give a random name like John Doe, making a new battle.net e-mail each time. That is only if they buy it, which is rare now because most Gold Sellers make the gold they get through hacking other peoples accounts, using them for farming, promotion, etc... using bot addons. That guy you ran a dungeon with yesterday could be naked, teleporting through zones mining ore from under the ground the next day.

Jul 7, 2010#26

Chazwozel

This is probably the best way for Blizzard to tone down their forums to constructive only posts.

Jul 7, 2010#27

Oddbot

A great disturbance in the Forums. It was like a million anonymous trolls qq'ing out in unison, then suddenly silenced.

As someone who hasn't played WoW in years, and who remembers the festering cesspool that was the official forums, I find this change hilarious. The epic levels of nerd rage I've been seeing over this is really entertaining.
The ironic part is that if people didn't treat Blizz's forums as their own personal haven to anonymously troll and be complete asshats, Blizzard probably would have never done this. Many of the people that are crying the loudest are probably the ones that are most responsible for this whole mess in the first place.

Seriously though, I don't understand why Blizz just doesn't limit each account to be able to post on ONE character only, or just have a single s/n for your forum account like most other official MMO forums do.

Jul 7, 2010#28

Chazwozel

Oddbot said:
A great disturbance in the Forums. It was like a million anonymous trolls qq'ing out in unison, then suddenly silenced.

As someone who hasn't played WoW in years, and who remembers the festering cesspool that was the official forums, I find this change hilarious. The epic levels of nerd rage I've been seeing over this is really entertaining.
The ironic part is that if people didn't treat Blizz's forums as their own personal haven to anonymously troll and be complete asshats, Blizzard probably would have never done this. Many of the people that are crying the loudest are probably the ones that are most responsible for this whole mess in the first place.

Seriously though, I don't understand why Blizz just doesn't limit each account to be able to post on ONE character only, or just have a single s/n for your forum account like most other official MMO forums do.

Jul 7, 2010#29

Shegokigo

As many of you can imagine, I'm 100% behind this change.

It has it's downsides (people begin RL stalking those they are "interested" in or "hate") but for the most part, puts a serious damper on the idiocy that caused the WoW forums to be such a joke in the first place.

Jul 7, 2010#30

Rob King

Shegokigo said:
As many of you can imagine, I'm 100% behind this change.

Honestly, seeing as you have always been notable (at least, in my eye) as one of the forumites here who makes serious effort to keep their real life segregated from the forum (alternatively "Try to keep the forum away from your real life"), I would have expected you to fall on the other side of this.

Jul 7, 2010#31

Shegokigo

I'd only be in trouble if I posted. :slywink:

Jul 7, 2010#32

Rob King

Aah. And now it seems obvious ...

Jul 7, 2010#33

Element 117

http://hellmode.com/2010/07/06/why-real-id-is-a-really-bad-idea/#more-390

Why Real ID is a Really Bad Idea
Written by Ashelia | July 6th, 2010 |

Back in the start of World of Warcraft, several years ago, I knew a guy who knew a guy. He was a forum warrior of sorts. He posted inflammatory stuff all day and night. One day, a group of people decided to reign him in and right the wrongs he’d besieged the community with. Long hours spent with search engines occurred and eventually a real life name was found. A few weeks later, a bouquet of roses and a dildo was sent to his door in care of his mother.
With the tables turned, the forum warrior was discovered to be just a helpless boy. He didn’t have an actual shield or sword like the name forum warrior implied. And his mother wasn’t very happy about the whole situation. The troll became trolled–and the realm of the internet carried over somewhat viciously into the real world.
Blizzard wrote today that with their new Real ID system, they hope to “connect the Blizzard community in ways they haven’t been connected before.” They plan on doing this by tying real life names to all forum posts from here on out.
I, however, posit that the community has been connecting in these ways for years–Blizzard is just naively unaware. And this is a very bad thing.
I remember when World of Warcraft’s mandatory merger with Battle.net was announced nearly a year ago. It was just an e-mail address, a universal login of sorts; it didn’t seem too threatening. There were whispers of big brother, but they sounded dramatic and paranoid. We even got a free in-game vanity pet out of it as a reward–it was hard not to agree with it. It seemed like such an inconsequential thing and the penguin was really cute.

But I suppose that’s how these things start. Not with a bang, but with a whimper–a gradual step here and there until suddenly you look back to realize everything’s changed. In that case, Blizzard certainly has been busy. Months after release, Battle.net IDs have become Real ID and Real ID has become linked not only as an optional feature in games like World of Warcraft or Starcraft 2 but to less optional methods of communication, like the official Blizzard forums where Blizzard takes feedback, lets players mingle, and even answers support tickets.
When Real ID came out a few weeks ago, I threw caution to the wind. Although my name is fairly uncommon, I immediately added everyone in my guild. I did this mostly because I like my guildmates, I trust them, and I’m an officer of our guild; it would be strange for me to not use this service. We killed heroic Lich King together, we make all kinds of obscene jokes, and although I’m one of two females in the entire guild of forty or so people, harassment is never an issue. I’m an equal. I’ve been here for over a year, and as such, giving these players my real life name wasn’t an issue.
This is a privilege I fully recognize. I haven’t always been that lucky and others definitely aren’t. But even in my privilege, there was a smaller problem. The guildmates I’d friended had friends who could see me as well because of this. For some reason, Real ID came with the feature that everyone can view other people’s friends–that is to say if I friend Joe, I can then see Joe’s friends and Joe’s friends can see me. It seemed wholly unnecessary and it was the first step in the Battle.net merger I would disagree with. The problem is, it wasn’t the last. It was, instead, the start of the proverbial slippery slope.
As I’ve alluded to, Blizzard announced today that all posts on their forums will be now using Real ID. This is mandatory–if you want to post, you have to post this way. Luckily it isn’t retroactive, but in the distant future for all Blizzard titles, real life names will be next to those who post. This will affect everyone, even Blizzard employees. They are also adding a karma feature that will be a lot like Reddit or Digg.
This is a horrible idea. Forcing people to sign real life name to a forum post is problematic on a basic level. The internet is largely what it is because of its anonymity–for better and for worse. Many great discussions have been had solely because someone could submit their words without worry of being judged. While it’s unavoidable that some people use anonymity to grief others, they aren’t as large factor on forums as heavily moderated as Blizzard’s. When Blizzard offers that requiring the inclusion of real life names will make gamers more civil and promote polite discussion, I must wonder if they’ve seen most gamers. The ones who played by the rules–who will sign at the dotted x on every forum post–were never the ones who were meant to be civilized. In fact, they are the ones being punished by this new system.

All Blizzard is effectively doing is giving those who fall between the cracks and margins more fodder to mess with people who do continue to use their services. A lot more fodder. Real life names, addresses, and downright terrifying fodder.
Additionally, by using a full name, players are tied to their real life persona and unable to separate themselves from their online one. In this system, it becomes linked forever in search engines. This means potential employers could find out if a player was a World of Warcraft fan and even the characters they have with a simple search. As cool of a story as it would make to be fired because your boss is staunch Horde and you’re Alliance (or more likely, because you play video games and your employer frowns upon MMORPGs in general), realistically there are aspects of one’s private life that don’t look good during an interview process. My boss doesn’t need to necessarily know if I have three level 80s, or if my arena team is about to get Gladiator using a cheap team composition.
There’s other issues, too. Women might find it harsher with new avenues of harassment opened. Transgendered people could be inadvertently outted when someone sees Sally, the friendly Paladin chick, posting under the name Steve. Someone could have a distinctive name and be disregarded solely because their name sounded like a person of a certain background, race, religion, or otherwise. And if someone’s a minor–or even major–celebrity, having their name exposed could be damaging. From Felicia Day to Mila Kunis, I doubt they’d like their alternative identity exposed simply because they decided to post a suggestion on the WoW forums or report a bug to support.
At the time of writing this, I have a friend who works for Blizzard and even she is upset about her name being tied to her video game identity–just a quick Google search with her real life name and you can find her LinkedIn where she mentions her affiliated companies, one of which is Blizzard. She says she simply will stop posting on the forums to avoid any mishaps, but she shouldn’t have to. To some degree, she knows and admits this, but what can she do? It’s her lifeblood. She’s not able to just quit her job because of a bad policy, so instead she’ll just opt out of posting on forums she enjoys.
That’s largely the point. People shouldn’t have to stop posting or stop using a product because of a larger marketing scheme. This should have never been a decision. There should have been another option; I can think of several off the top of my head. Blizzard could have adopted a Steam-like policy of usernames and then nicknames so users can define exactly how personal they would like their encounter to be. Another solution would have been to use a first name and last initial instead. Or maybe unique ID codes could be linked to real life names, but the code could be shown in the public so people don’t know their real life details.
And as for the ability to like posts and promote them to the top, maybe I’m negative, but I can see it quickly getting out of hand. Imagine an entire guild down voting your suggestion to a developer for no reason other than your guild is their rival guild or because you used to know them until you had a falling out of sorts. Of course, by even posting your suggestion out there, you’ve just given hundreds of people who may or may not loathe your existence your full name–let alone the trade chat trolls who will find it.
I mean, you better hope they are mostly all bark and not a lot of bite. And you really better hope they aren’t remotely connected to 4chan or other internet groups. Or at least not good with a phonebook.

When Blizzard first unveiled the Real ID system, I was excited against my better judgment. It brought my WoW guildmates together. We did things like make fun of each other’s names, put updates that were laughing at inside jokes, and enjoy the novelty of seeing formal names instead of character whispers in-game. But the novelty has since worn off with this announcement and now I’m disappointed. Extremely disappointed, actually.
Like I said, there were options. Unfortunately it seems Blizzard executives chose not to look into them and then turned a blind eye. It’s just a shame that this lack of foresight will probably at the very least result in the harassment of many thousands of individuals–if it doesn’t end up causing something worse for a select few.
As for me, I haven’t forgotten about the person from France who spent over six months to track down and attempt murder on a guy who fragged him in Counter-strike (NY Daily News). Call me pessimistic all you want, but I have to wonder if Blizzard’s marketing department even thought about it.
Or if they’ll even listen to us now.

Jul 7, 2010#34

Telephius

Chazwozel;411206][QUOTE=Oddbot said:
A great disturbance in the Forums. It was like a million anonymous trolls qq'ing out in unison, then suddenly silenced.

As someone who hasn't played WoW in years, and who remembers the festering cesspool that was the official forums, I find this change hilarious. The epic levels of nerd rage I've been seeing over this is really entertaining.
The ironic part is that if people didn't treat Blizz's forums as their own personal haven to anonymously troll and be complete asshats, Blizzard probably would have never done this. Many of the people that are crying the loudest are probably the ones that are most responsible for this whole mess in the first place.

Seriously though, I don't understand why Blizz just doesn't limit each account to be able to post on ONE character only, or just have a single s/n for your forum account like most other official MMO forums do.

Match point.

You guys realize that 99% of the Blizzard trolls are kids to begin with. Giving out real names and allowing parents to turn off little Johnny's forum access will probably kill off a good majority of the trolls.[/QUOTE]

It may get rid of some trolls but I doubt all while also probably scaring off helpful posters who are weary of the change. Also its not like all forums trolls are children, I mean on this forum where trolling severity is not that bad and sometimes accidental, I recall people being accused of following other posters thread history so they can post in those threads to make snarky comments and I am fairly confident most posters hear are adults. I mean if 18+ people acted like mature grown ups all the time I am sure downtown Toronto would not have been vandalized during the G20.

Jul 7, 2010#35

tegid

Here's what a see: overall, they are trying to create a social network a la facebook, but they don't see that in facebook you can protect your info as much as you want. Not only is privacy an important issue, but you can use false names.

Jul 7, 2010#36

Soliloquy

I see this being disastrous in S. Korea.

Jul 7, 2010#37

sixpackshaker

It would be like seeing your name in the phone book for the first time, nothing bad could happen...

Jul 7, 2010#38

Soliloquy

sixpackshaker said:
It would be like seeing your name in the phone book for the first time, nothing bad could happen...

EVERYDAY RANDOM SON OF A BITCH! TAKE THAT YOU RUN-OF-THE-MILL BASTARD!

Jul 7, 2010#39

Rubicon

I canceled my WoW account. I wasn't picking up SC2 already but Blizzard, excuse me, Bobby Kotick, won't be getting more of my money.

Jul 7, 2010#40

Shegokigo

Jul 7, 2010#41

Jay

Mav said:
I canceled my WoW account. I wasn't picking up SC2 already but Blizzard, excuse me, Bobby Kotick, won't be getting more of my money.

Jul 7, 2010#42

Dave

Mav said:
I canceled my WoW account. I wasn't picking up SC2 already but Blizzard, excuse me, Bobby Kotick, won't be getting more of my money.

Who is Bobby Kotock? Is that George Harrison's real name?

Jul 7, 2010#43

Iaculus

Dave;411501][QUOTE=Mav said:
I canceled my WoW account. I wasn't picking up SC2 already but Blizzard, excuse me, Bobby Kotick, won't be getting more of my money.

Who is Bobby Kotock? Is that George Harrison's real name?[/QUOTE]

CEO of Activision Blizzard.

Jul 7, 2010#44

Dave

Iaculus;411505][QUOTE=Dave;411501][QUOTE=Mav said:
I canceled my WoW account. I wasn't picking up SC2 already but Blizzard, excuse me, Bobby Kotick, won't be getting more of my money.

Who is Bobby Kotock? Is that George Harrison's real name?[/QUOTE]

CEO of Activision Blizzard.[/QUOTE]

I know. I was playing off the whole thing with nobody knowing Ringo's real name from earlier. Ah well. I thought it was funny.

Jul 8, 2010#45

Chazwozel

Mav said:
I canceled my WoW account. I wasn't picking up SC2 already but Blizzard, excuse me, Bobby Kotick, won't be getting more of my money.

Who the fuck on Earth would give two shits about your identity? You have absolutely no career that could be ruined. No assets to be taken advantage of. No family to be concerned over the well-being of. Mav, my friend, I think stealing a 13 year old's identity would make more sense than finding out yours.

I don't mean to sound conceited, but I'll use myself as an example: I'm a college professor . If I post on the StarCraft forums I run the risk of a student looking up my identity and using it against me etc...

I'm still going to play the game!

Jul 8, 2010#46

Dave

You are not a teenage girl. Hell, ANY age girl for that matter! This is very bad for privacy reasons.

Jul 8, 2010#47

HCGLNS

Luckily this won't affect me. Not because I don't play WOW anymore, but because the judicial system in this province has already nuked net anonymity from orbit

Jul 8, 2010#48

Chazwozel

Dave said:
You are not a teenage girl. Hell, ANY age girl for that matter! This is very bad for privacy reasons.

Yeah, but I still fully support the use of real names on those forums. The parental controls and such should be enough to control that problem. Not to mention that stalking is still going to be illegal. Considering that the stalkers lose the same amount of privacy over those forums as the teenage girls do, it'll make it for Chris Hanson to pay them a visit.

Jul 8, 2010#49

Shakey

I wonder how many parents pay attention to the release notes of the game. Will they even be notified that this change is taking place, and they can now stop their child from posting on the forums? The kids sure aren't going to tell the parents.

I think it's a stupid idea, but I really don't care. I never post on their forums anyway. All they're going to do is kill what little useful feedback they used to get through the forums. People are also going to think twice before posting on the support forums, so it will be interesting to see if their call center starts getting all those calls.

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

Hmmm, I wonder how many kids have their accounts under their parents name. That could make for interesting situations.

Jul 8, 2010#50

Chazwozel

Shakey said:
I wonder how many parents pay attention to the release notes of the game. Will they even be notified that this change is taking place, and they can now stop their child from posting on the forums? The kids sure aren't going to tell the parents.

I think it's a stupid idea, but I really don't care. I never post on their forums anyway. All they're going to do is kill what little useful feedback they used to get through the forums. People are also going to think twice before posting on the support forums, so it will be interesting to see if their call center starts getting all those calls.

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

Hmmm, I wonder how many kids have their accounts under their parents name. That could make for interesting situations.

I think that the significant posters are going to still post (the one's that the WoW mods sticky their posts). If I had enough time to post constructive feedback on those games, I sure would still post.

Jul 8, 2010#51

Shegokigo

Chazwozel said:
Considering that the stalkers lose the same amount of privacy over those forums as the teenage girls do, it'll make it for Chris Hanson to pay them a visit.

No they won't. As long as the stalker doesn't post, his/her RL name will not be known.

Jul 8, 2010#52

Shakey

Chazwozel said:
I think that the significant posters are going to still post (the one's that the WoW mods sticky their posts). If I had enough time to post constructive feedback on those games, I sure would still post.

I'm sure they will, but they aren't the ones posting in the support forums or asking for advice on something. People will think twice about posting, and I don't think it will be just the trolls that do it. People with legitimate issues and questions will go elsewhere, and that's not a good thing to have happen. At least they could address those concerns on their own forum.

Jul 8, 2010#53

Chazwozel

Shegokigo;411846][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Considering that the stalkers lose the same amount of privacy over those forums as the teenage girls do, it'll make it for Chris Hanson to pay them a visit.

No they won't. As long as the stalker doesn't post, his/her RL name will not be known.[/QUOTE]

Then a parent should tell his stupid fucking teenager not to be an idiot and post on a forum full of creeps. (I realize the irony of posting this on Halforums ;-D) I've already had a chat about internet safety with the 6 year old, and monitor his online time. It's not that hard to keep your kids internet smart.

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

Amorous Eyes;411848][QUOTE=Dave said:
You are not a teenage girl. Hell, ANY age girl for that matter! This is very bad for privacy reasons.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned yet but there's at least one (female) Blizzard employee who was an active poster who decided to quit the forums altogether.

Also, it had to be pointed out to me that this is also a bad thing for the transgendered as there are many who are stealth or simply don't want to be scrutinized and trolled, stalked, or worse because of their (current) RL names not matching their gender. I know of several who actively play WoW. Some may not post on the forums, but they cannot accept any friends requests from guildmates and such either now.[/QUOTE]

How is a transgendered person going to be affected by this specifically? If you're name is Charline Johnson, how is a person going to know if you're really a man or woman?

Jul 8, 2010#54

GasBandit

This type of thing won't get rid of the Gas Bandits of the internet, but it will sure drive the wimminz back into hiding.

Jul 8, 2010#55

Dave

GasBandit said:
This type of thing won't get rid of the Gas Bandits of the internet, but it will sure drive the wimminz back into hiding.

Really? It won't?

What's your REAL NAME?

Jul 8, 2010#56

Seraphyn

Overall, this change seems pretty useless. If I'd troll under a lvl 1 alt, I'd just continue trolling under a fake name. So as an anti trolling tool it has 0 effectiveness.
Unless Blizzard want's to link the RealID to a verified bank account name I don't see this stopping anything.

And as far as anonymity on the internet: As a guy who doesn't really ruffle anyones feathers I couldn't give 2 shits about remaining anonymous or having to put my real name out there. I can imagine that as a somewhat attractive female this change could negatively affect your forum experience, so I'd suggest going with the fake name thing.

Jul 8, 2010#57

GasBandit

Dave;411904][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
This type of thing won't get rid of the Gas Bandits of the internet, but it will sure drive the wimminz back into hiding.

Jul 8, 2010#58

Dave

GasBandit;411922][QUOTE=Dave;411904][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
This type of thing won't get rid of the Gas Bandits of the internet, but it will sure drive the wimminz back into hiding.

Jul 8, 2010#59

GasBandit

Dave;411943][QUOTE=GasBandit;411922][QUOTE=Dave;411904][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
This type of thing won't get rid of the Gas Bandits of the internet, but it will sure drive the wimminz back into hiding.

Jul 8, 2010#60

Dave

GasBandit;411948][QUOTE=Dave;411943][QUOTE=GasBandit;411922][QUOTE=Dave;411904][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
This type of thing won't get rid of the Gas Bandits of the internet, but it will sure drive the wimminz back into hiding.

Really? It won't?

What's your REAL NAME?[/QUOTE]

David Nihsen.

But seriously, you're missing the point. If suddenly everybody's real name started being attached to their posts, it probably wouldn't change my posting habits at all, though I might be a bit miffed at first. But I bet you there are a number of females around here who might disappear.[/QUOTE]

Would YOU post there knowing your real name would be attached? If not, then it will have an effect.[/QUOTE]

I quit playing Warcraft a couple years ago, so it's moot. But no, were I still playing, this would not prevent me from posting on the blizzard forums.[/QUOTE]

No offense, Gas, but I think you are not being truthful. What would you do if I implemented this on this very forum? Would you leave or continue to post? I think we'd automatically lose you, Amy, Shego and possibly even Ame.

People have a right to at least some privacy. If Blizzard was smart they'd simply tie the accounts together so that if a 1st level alt got banned so would the primary account. And depending on the level of the trolling they could have their account locked for X time for it. All they need to say is that in-game and forum etiquette is the same. Boom. Problem solved.

Jul 8, 2010#61

GasBandit

Dave said:
No offense, Gas, but I think you are not being truthful. What would you do if I implemented this on this very forum? Would you leave or continue to post? I think we'd automatically lose you, Amy, Shego and possibly even Ame.

People have a right to at least some privacy. If Blizzard was smart they'd simply tie the accounts together so that if a 1st level alt got banned so would the primary account. And depending on the level of the trolling they could have their account locked for X time for it. All they need to say is that in-game and forum etiquette is the same. Boom. Problem solved.

I don't know, I don't actually think I'd stop posting (any more than I already have but that has nothing to do with privacy). But I think you're right about the other people who'd disappear. Privacy is a good thing, and I agree with you that what this REALLY is about is blizzard being too lazy to administrate their own forums.

Jul 8, 2010#62

Chazwozel

Amorous Eyes;411967][QUOTE=Chazwozel;411864][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes said:
Also, it had to be pointed out to me that this is also a bad thing for the transgendered as there are many who are stealth or simply don't want to be scrutinized and trolled, stalked, or worse because of their (current) RL names not matching their gender. I know of several who actively play WoW. Some may not post on the forums, but they cannot accept any friends requests from guildmates and such either now.

How is a transgendered person going to be affected by this specifically? If you're name is Charline Johnson, how is a person going to know if you're really a man or woman?[/QUOTE]

I don't think there are a lot of genetic girls called "Richard" or "Michael". Maybe you missed the fact this RealID thing isn't limited to the forums.

Many guilds will want to make use of this feature, and virtually all TGs will have to refuse to participate. If you suddenly have to tell the people who have been your friends & guild mates for years that your name is "James" or "Robert" when they have only known you as "Linda" or "Jennifer" that is too big an obstacle for many TGs to overcome. Though I am sure you can't imagine the amount of ridicule those people would be faced with if they were forced to reveal that bit of information. Most TGs don't go around "Hi, I'm a transsexual! 'sup?". ESPECIALLY online.

Like I said, many TGs and TS are stealth. Laws vary per country, many cannot change their names (and gender) that easily (or ever, even). Being forced to reveal that information can be very damaging to their self-esteem, confidence, etc..

Not only that, there are many more that only have their online life to be free in. To be free in their correct gender. They can be "Barbara" online with friends who accept her completely because her real life would never accept Mr. James McAllistar, CEO of an important company, married with 3 kids for over 40 years, captain of the bowling team changing his gender.

They should, but they don't.

..I hate my current RL name with a passion, always have.[/QUOTE]

Soooo is Blizzard going to require a copy of your birth certificate to make sure you're using your legal name now?

Jul 8, 2010#63

Element 117

Presumably they'd use the name on the credit card, right?

Jul 8, 2010#64

Shegokigo

"Forum of Creeps" is exactly what Blizzard is trying to do away with Chaz.

Warn your kids against posting on a forum where your favorite game developers and community managers post? That's the dangerous place? Seriously you have to be able to look at it from that point of view as well.

Jul 8, 2010#65

ElJuski

Strangely enough, I agree with Chaz on the Mav thing (so happy that guy is still around). I know I wouldn't be posting here if my forum name was attached to my real name. Once again, enough of you people know it already.

Jul 8, 2010#66

Chazwozel

.Amy. said:
Presumably they'd use the name on the credit card, right?

Game cards

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

Shegokigo said:
"Forum of Creeps" is exactly what Blizzard is trying to do away with Chaz.

Warn your kids against posting on a forum where your favorite game developers and community managers post? That's the dangerous place? Seriously you have to be able to look at it from that point of view as well.

I suppose the whole issue is solved if they just buck up and link a "master" nickname to all subsequent accounts.

Jul 8, 2010#67

Element 117

Dont accounts require a name and address from a CC regardless of GCs?

Jul 8, 2010#68

ElJuski

I don't care if Blizzard or Netflix or T-shirtsRAwesome.com knows my name or address. I care that Joe Shmo knows it.

---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 AM ----------

Unless Joe Shmo works for Netflix.

Jul 8, 2010#69

Shegokigo

Chazwozel said:
I suppose the whole issue is solved if they just buck up and link a "master" nickname to all subsequent accounts.

That's the point Buckley was making on his reply. It's probably the best course of action and what will end up happening when Blizzard pulls the plug on the RL name thing.

Jul 9, 2010#70

Rubicon

Chazwozel said:
I'm a college professor .

Jul 9, 2010#71

Cobra Star

Um... he actually is though Mav.... :hm:

Jul 9, 2010#72

David

...I wonder if I can figure out which forums my professors post in? >.>

Jul 9, 2010#73

Math242

mav, you're such a douche. Why don't you just shut up, he's going to internet beat you up again and you'll just cry...again.

Jul 9, 2010#74

Chazwozel

Mav;412245][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
I'm a college professor .

haha..hahaha.. BWWWAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA hahahaa..ha..

lol thats great

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

hahhahahaha.. you really had me there, oh man thats rich

If you're really a college professor, we're all fucked. Thank god none of the professors I had going through college weren't a giant gapping asshole this side of the planet such as you, good sir.

But hey, flex that internet muscle, internet tough at work here folks, stand back he may hurt someone!

lol.. college professor.. thats fuckin great hahaha[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that whole Ph.D. thing I have in Cell and Molecular Biology... You usually post-doc or get a professorship with it if you want to stay in academics. But alas, I don't need to explain myself to you.

I'd rather be - what seems to you - an asshole a thousand times over than a pussy-boy 40 year old virgin living with his momma, and pining over some lady who took advantage of him over the internet while he was polishing his collectibles muttering over and over again how he should start a fucking union at his telemarketing deadend job.

Jul 9, 2010#75

R

Raemon777

This post was pretty eye opening for me. I thought it was a bad idea before, for hypothetical reasons. Now I am absolutely convinced this is a terrible idea.

Jul 9, 2010#76

Chazwozel

Raemon777 said:
This post was pretty eye opening for me. I thought it was a bad idea before, for hypothetical reasons. Now I am absolutely convinced this is a terrible idea.

She posts convincing arguments for women gamers and minorities. Ok. I'm convinced, there are too many loopholes that can be exploited that puts people's safety in jeopardy. Regardless, I still personally wouldn't feel too scared.

Jul 9, 2010#77

Dave

Kind of hard to read it so I'm reposting it here. I don't know who Nattie is, but she's very, very right. Spoilered because it's a wall of text.

I don't play WoW at the moment. I played off and on (mostly on) for the first five years of the game, and I'll play again for a while once the expansion comes out, then probably quit again, etc. Anyway, especially a few years ago when I had the time and inclination to play more, I was fairly active on the forums. My husband still plays, and so do a ton of my friends. So I'm really familiar with how the forums work and what people are like there.

This is a terrible, terrible idea. Especially if the intent is to discourage trolling, there are much more effective solutions available. Some of the reasons why it's terrible have already been brought up, but a bunch of people who are obviously not familiar with the WoW forums have muddied things by making arguments based on incorrect assumptions, so for the sake of having an omnibus "this is why it's bad" post, here we go.

Incorrect Assumption #1: It's already easy to link WoW characters to their real life players.

That's just completely wrong. It's pretty difficult. It's impossible, in fact, unless someone outright tells you their real life name or e-mail address, none of which are available to fellow players. You have to ask someone for those things, and they have to willingly tell you. There are people I played with for years, even had their phone numbers, and I had no idea what their first names were, let alone their last names. For a while we had a guild leader who would delight in not telling us what his real first name was. I've also met nearly a dozen people from WoW in real life. People have different comfort levels about that sort of thing, but the point is it should be their choice.

When you see a character, either in-game or on the forums, you literally do not know anything related to real-life about that character, not even an IP address, unless they willingly supply that information. You don't even know what other characters are on the same account, much less what character belongs to what player. You'd have to work for Blizzard on the forums to see any of that information, and they're not allowed to disclose it. While it's true that an employee could just do it anyway, I think it's reasonable that people have some expectation of privacy in that regard. I'm not sure that I've ever heard of someone having their real life identity discovered without their willingly giving away obvious information, either their name or they're linked to their website and someone did a whois.

Keep in mind that few forums exist that display your full real-life name with your posts. You usually have some kind of username. Metafilter is like this. Maybe you can link that to an e-mail address and someone knows it's you that way -- and lots of forums will even keep that private if you want. But plenty of people -- for good reason -- keep their work and private e-mails separate. A lot of us cringe to think what others could dig up about us just using our e-mail address -- but let's be honest, it's because we either don't care that much or we've been sloppy. Both of those things are under our control.

The change Blizzard is making on the WoW forums isn't like that; it doesn't give you a choice except to stop using the WoW forums, or else lie about your name which isn't a great idea if you ever have a billing conflict or need to verify that you own the account. The latter happens whenever someone gets hacked, and people get hacked a lot, even smart computer-savvy people I'd think would never get hacked; once a few people I knew got hacked because someone inserted malicious code into a banner ad on a popular WoW website. The website fixed the problem, but still, everyone thought it was safe and it even took a while for anyone to figure out what had caused it. Point is: hacking is common and getting more sophisticated, you need your account info to be accurate.

So, right, the privacy-conscious people will stop using the forums. I just think it's ridiculous to force people's hand that way when it's not necessary.

Incorrect Assumption #2: People won't actually harass other people outside the game, come on.

This is just wrong. I don't know how else to put it. It's a lovely thought, but people go to great lengths simply to harass others in-game, and just handing the real name to them without their even having to do any work for it makes it easier to harass them outside the game. If you really, truly think it won't lead to harassment, you are underestimating both teenagers and angry, socially ill-adjusted people -- a ton of whom play WoW, alongside all the normal people. People already go to crazy lengths to e-stalk people and some of it already culminates in real life confrontations. I have trouble believing that anyone who says this has actually ever played an MMO, so if you haven't, please consider that you might not know what you're talking about and people aren't just paranoid and complaining about nothing.

And, more on this in a moment, but one really needs experience in the gaming community to comment on it. Particularly those in doubt of women being SEVERELY harassed in-game and, yes, on the forums. The gaming world is way more hostile to women than you think. I wish it weren't, I really, really do, and I know you mean well, but please do not say you doubt those things when I and other women have been through a lot in that regard. The WoW forums is not Metafilter by ANY stretch of the imagination. I would not mind my real name being on Metafilter and I've posted things here I wouldn't tell my mother, but I would probably cry if my real name was next to my WoW posts. It's not because I make a fool of myself on the WoW forums, either, but-- well, you'll see in a moment.

Incorrect Assumption #3: There's no good reason to keep your identity separate from the gaming community. If you're worried about someone from WoW finding you on Facebook, then why are you even on Facebook?

The answer to this is so long you'll just have to read my list of reasons why this is bad. The short version is: because the gaming community has a different culture than society in general, and it actually does make a big difference whether they know things that you don't try to keep hidden in real life. It's absolutely rational and sane to have 500 Facebook friends and not want anyone from WoW to know anything about you.

Reasons Why This Is Bad, Even If You're Not a Troll:
1. Girls are going to get harassed more than they already do. Just like in real life, while plenty of gamer guys are decent people -- gamer guys are the majority of my closest friends -- there are a ton of asshole gamer guys who make life hell for players who are openly female. Really, the gamer community is a much more hostile place for women than society in general. I never tried to hide my gender, so I have a ton of anecdotes I could tell you.

Here's the shit a female gamer has to deal with:
* People assume that you're not actually a girl, and you're just playing a girl character so you get "free stuff" from guys. This is actually the least bothersome thing. (For the record, I never got "free stuff." I think to get free stuff you actually have to cyber someone, or at least make them think you might, and I had no interest in any of those things.)

* constant requests -- some anonymous and some not, some crass and some just creepy -- asking for pictures, and these will not let up, EVER. In my case, the requests did not let up after five years.

* If you do post a picture (I never did) people either go nuts over how hot you are and won't leave you alone -- and the guys that perv on you treat you in a condescending way because hot=stupid; having to hear that shit addressed to other girls on Vent was really infuriating and uncomfortable -- OR they make a point of constantly telling you how ugly you are and won't leave you alone. There is no middle ground. They either want to fuck you or deride you. And it actually doesn't matter how hot or how ugly you are, either; the hottest girls will get called ugly (and FAT, ALWAYS FAT), and the ugliest girls still have to deal with lonely guys who aren't superficial. Any time the girl posts something thereafter, people will comment on her appearance, even though it has nothing to do with whatever is being discussed.

* if you don't post a picture they all sit around and speculate, and some people inevitably decide that you're not posting a picture because you're ugly, and therefore they don't like you. It does not occur to a great many people that a girl might not want guys bothering them for any reason. If you try to defend yourself, you're an attention whore.

Similar to pseudonymph, whenever someone asked me what I looked like I'd say something like, "I'm 350 pounds, all woman." Which always irritated me a bit: I said it because it was effective -- it made them less interested in asking, plus they usually thought it was funny and I didn't come across as prissy so it defused two concerns they'd have about female gamers -- but I didn't like perpetrating the idea that fat people are disgusting or something to be laughed at. I just never came up with another response that worked as well. :-/

* I got daily messages from people I didn't know because they liked my forum posts. This was bothersome for a few reasons. Some of whom were just normal people being nice and it was only bothersome as a distraction, but a fraction of them were lonely guys excited to be talking to a girl. The latter would bother me constantly. Other women I played with also dealt with these kinds of guys.

* If you ask someone to leave you alone, you're a stuck up bitch. That means you always have to be nice to everyone. This was both unfair and character-building, because now I'm really good at talking to and disengaging from socially ill-adjusted people without hurting their feelings.

* You are automatically a therapist and guys come to you for advice. This isn't so bad when friends do it, but you also have to patiently listen to a lot of emotionally-fragile guys you don't know very well. If this were infrequent it wouldn't be so bad. When it's constant and it's using up leisure time that you wanted to spend actually playing the game, it's really draining.

* People assume that you're bad at the game; they assume that any gear you got was given to you because you're a girl, and that your entire guild just started carrying you through raid instances because they were driven senseless by your siren song. It doesn't matter if you're in one of the top guilds in the US and doing content where you really can't carry bad players through. They can believe you're a good healer, sometimes. If you're a damage-dealing class they can't believe you could possibly be as good as a guy until they see raid reports. They will never believe you can tank.

* Some people think anything you do or say is attention-whoring, even if you never wanted the attention. If a guy makes a joke in a forum post, he's a funny guy. If a girl makes a joke in a forum post, she's an attention whore. If a guy makes a good argument in a forum post, he's a smart guy. If a girl makes a good argument in a forum post, she's doing it for attention. She's ESPECIALLY an attention whore if people like her or agree with her.

* Similarly, people assume that the only reason anyone likes you is because they're one of your fanboys. So people don't genuinely think women or funny or make good arguments, they're just fanboys. If other girls like you, then it's because women form cliques -- even if in the previous breath they were saying that women are all catty and hate each other.

* Even if people tend to assume you're male from your writing style, once they know your gender, some people tend to read everything in the shrillest way possible. You could literally copy and paste a guy's post and get an entirely different reaction.

* All of this applies to underage girls. I've played alongside 14, 15, 16 year old girls who would deal with all this horrible stuff every day. Often worse stuff really, since they didn't yet have the best handle on how to deal with it.

Want to hear some scary shit? One 14 year old girl whose father also played had to change her character's name and transfer her to another server because some guy was e-stalking her. If her real life name (or her father's name) were next to her character's name in forum posts she wouldn't be very safe right now, would she?

* For all of the above, it doesn't really matter much if you're married or in a long-term relationship. It doesn't stop anyone. The only real difference is that if you're married, people assume you're old and unattractive and probably controlling. (I stopped playing WoW when I was 24, and I'm about to turn 26.) Within my guild there was pretty much no fear that I was going to try to woo my way to anything at least, but outside the guild people keep thinking whatever they want.

I was really lucky to be in a guild with guys that AREN'T assholes, so I had a reason to keep playing even if random forum people would be assholes sometimes. For whatever reason, our guild was full of mostly rational, unprejudiced people; we would reject applicants that weren't those things. We were in a position where we could be that picky, but most guilds don't do well enough to get enough apps that they can afford to reject people for character flaws. Once our GM actually got on an app's case for creeping out the girls in the guild -- just basically warning him that he was not making us feel flattered -- and then he kicked him out of the guild a few days later when nothing changed; that GM had a pretty good understanding of what was skeezy and why we shouldn't have to put up with it. We were lucky for that, because the guy in question wasn't being crass or lewd, he was just kind of a stereotypical dorky guy who thought women liked to be treated like Renaissance maidens instead of people; he couldn't seem to understand we didn't want him to flirt with us even in a "harmless" complimentary way, that we just wanted to be left the fuck alone. One of the women in question wasn't even afraid to be really mean and condescending to him about it, and he STILL kept it up because he was too awkward to know how to do anything else. This is the sort of stuff we had to deal with.

Ours was an extraordinary guild, though; we've gone to great lengths to see each other IRL even since most of us quit WoW, and most guilds don't have that kind of protection and camaraderie. In most guilds no one would think there was anything wrong with that guy's behavior and we'd be too "sensitive" if we complained about it. For many girls, the solution is either to grit their teeth through it and say very little -- which isn't feasible if you want to raid, because any decent raiding guild requires you use a voice client. But if you don't want to raid, you can have male characters and just never disclose your gender. My primary character was female, but after seeing how that went, I made all my alts male just to get a goddamn break when I needed it. Several times when I quit the game it was because it had become too draining to deal with anymore; guys can just log in and have fun and log off, but girls have to log in and deal with everyone who wants to talk to them. After a while logging in meant I would spend all night typing while flying aimlessly around Shattrath instead of actually doing anything fun. I'm an introvert so I was especially worn down. You can't just not respond to people because they keep trying, or they think you're stuck-up, or they're seriously emotionally fragile and you really don't want to hurt their feelings, and they can always ask someone else in your guild to make sure you're not AFK. It sucks. I mean, you can do all that anyway, if you want to get harassed.

The only way to play it if you're not going to lay low is to have a pristine rep, and it's constant work. I accepted that as a sacrifice for not hiding my gender and wanting to actually be able to talk to my friends on the forums like guys get to do. I never thought it was fair but I was able to weigh the consequences and make a choice. But if you attach real life names to characters, a woman pretty much can't post on the forums anymore unless they're willing to deal with all of the above -- plus more, since everyone can look up her name on Facebook and pick apart her appearance! All the women that lie low for their own sanity aren't going to have that choice anymore, even if all they want to do is help someone out on the forums, or make a post looking for or selling something, or what-have-you.

2. Minorities will get harassed.

A sizable portion of gamers are racist. (Sexism, racism, and homophobia are what make me most uncomfortable about the gaming community; in a serious way I feel more connection to gamers than any other group, so this pains me. Plenty of gamers are none of these things and I love them to death, but I think those same gamers realize what a huge problem it is in the community in general.) An even bigger portion of gamers are just not very racially sensitive -- they'll use "******" or "Jew" a lot, for example, even if they don't think they actively feel anything against those groups, because they think it's funny. In the same way that saying stuff is "gay" is especially pronounced in the gamer community, even the people that say slurs ironically or by force of habit inadvertently make actual bigots in the gaming community feel empowered because they don't realize other people don't mean those things like they do. It is much more common and acceptable to express racist opinions in the gaming community than society at large.

Plus -- I hate to say this -- I've found that a lot of people in that latter category who don't feel like they're actively prejudiced against minorities actually do think black and Mexican people in particular are stupid. I've realized that about some gamers I'm friends with and it's not a great feeling; you have to hang around them a while before something comes up that makes you notice it, like how they interpret a comment they overheard from a black person, that sort of thing. It's usually people that grew up around only other white people; gamers that grew up around minorities tend to use the slurs because they're using to trading friendly jabs with minority friends, and they aren't actually racist and know when not to use the slurs. Unfortunately, the obliviously racist gamers especially tend not to understand why you wouldn't want to say those things even jokingly to a minority you don't know; they don't think they're racist, so their reasoning is that people shouldn't take offense. But it can get really uncomfortable when it's clear to everyone else that they actually are a little racist and don't realize it, and it's just as hurtful as a real racist remark when they're trying to be funny and the assumption shines through anyway.

Putting people's real life name on their posts just encourages people to drag their race into the discussion, whether they're being hateful or just think they're being funny. I've seen Black and Hispanic gamers in particular get a whole lot of crap already and they're often not forthcoming about their ethnicity. It doesn't even necessarily come through on voice clients so it's easier than hiding gender. Just like I don't blame women who chose to lay low so they can have fun playing the game instead of being drained by dealing with people, I don't blame minorities who do the same thing. They shouldn't have to deal with people's bullshit because their last name is Rodriguez or Goldstein.

And if anyone wants to say, "Well real life is like that," fantastic. WoW is a game. It's not supposed to be serious business. People play games as long as they're fun, and being harassed isn't fun. It's no one's moral obligation to be the banner-carrier for justice 24/7. If someone wants to make their gender or race (or sexual orientation) known in WoW so they can chip away at the problems in the gaming community, that's certainly praiseworthy. My guild was great so I and the other women and minorities and gays in the guild could feel a little more comfortable being open about that stuff. But it shouldn't be thrust on anyone.

3. You don't have to be a troll to not want your name attached to your posts. There is still a bit of a gaming stigma, and there is an especially strong WoW stigma.

I have friends that keep their WoW-playing secret. A lot of friends, actually. I think it's kind of silly but I understand the impetus because just like the gaming community has a different culture, they spend their real lives in cultures that stigmatize gaming. Some people deal with constant bullshit in MMOs because they're female or a minority or gay; some people deal with constant bullshit IRL because everyone they know thinks only losers or people with mental problems play MMOs. Several people in our guild were in the armed services and kept WoW a secret because the attitude toward MMOs was so negative there. Other people have relatives who literally think things like WoW are demonic.

Hell, even within WoW there is a stigma against playing it too much. I was in the top raiding guild on our server and we were constantly having to deal with people saying, "You're only doing so well because you play so much!" We were constantly struggling to finish everything for the week in two evenings just so we could say, "NUH UH, we play less than you do, you're just bad!" And then guildies would gossip about the few people in the guild that really did play constantly -- there were always a couple. If someone had some awesome item on their alt that you wanted for your main, well: at least you weren't a loser that played everyday like they did -- I mean you get laid at least, goddamn, you're too busy being cool IRL to have a good alt. Playing WoW is considered waaaay less cool than playing anything else.

Outside of WoW it's worse: for non-gamers, WoW may as well be the only MMO anyone has ever heard of, and they haven't heard good things; finding out someone plays WoW isn't like finding out they played Uncharted. Employers who don't know any better might feel apprehensive about hiring someone who plays WoW since the stereotype is that WoW players are irresponsible and end up losing their jobs. Sure, every now and then it might work in someone's favor -- I've had bosses who play WoW, and some of my husband's NASA colleagues do too -- but it should be someone's choice whether they reveal that sort of thing.

Again, I'm all for being open about things in order to change attitudes, but it shouldn't be forced on anyone. You don't have to actually feel shame for playing WoW to want to avoid dealing with bullshit from judgmental people; I'd argue that anyone who doesn't feel shame would be making a rational decision to avoid engaging with small-minded people on the topic. I mean, how many of us avoid talking about politics or religion? Most of us aren't ashamed, we just know it would be a contentious waste of time if our granny knew we we didn't hate gay people. And for the smaller subset that actually do feel shame -- and yes, I know some of those too -- "you shouldn't be such a wuss" doesn't outweigh privacy anyway. People should be able to be wusses if they want.

4. A lot of parents are going to have their teenager's posts linked to their name because their name is on the account.

Best case scenario is that the teenager is a perfect angel on the WoW forums, and everyone still sees a ton of WoW posts attached to the parent's name in Google searches. Bad for all the reasons above.

Less-than-best case scenario is the teenager engages in some colorful gamer humor, which, even if it isn't racist, is probably mildly sexual and insulting. Not really something you want appearing in an employer's Google search, or that you want your friends and family finding.

Worst case scenario is the child says some crazy shit and the parent looks crazy.

5. People who don't play WoW will get harassed or have WoW associated with them if someone else with the same name posts on the WoW forums.

6. If you're able to easily lie about your name in the forums to get out of privacy concerns, that just opens another can of worms.

7. It probably won't do that much to stop trolling.

If you're able to change what name is displayed, it won't stop trolling at all. But even if you can't change what name shows up, plenty of people already get a second account to post from and will keep doing that; this, of course, is also an option for privacy-conscious people, but they shouldn't have to pay more money when they're not doing anything wrong.

Plus there are people who don't care if you know their real name as long as you don't know what character they play; they're worried about in-game ramifications if people don't like them -- i.e. people won't let them into their group, or their guild, or they won't be able to sell anything. So while real life privacy is important to a lot of people, in-game privacy is just as important to others. (I think someone already noted upthread that some people prefer to keep all their forum activity separate from their main character, even when they're not trolling.)

Some people happily troll from their main already and just don't care that other people don't like them. When people troll on their main they're usually pretty polarizing and end up with as many friends as enemies, and some people are comfortable with that. My server had a guy that would be a troll on his main and I actually thought he was pretty funny, in a guilty pleasure sort of way; he would mostly bait people that were already raging about something stupid so it was hard to feel bad for them.

Will it stop some trolling, though? Probably. So would better moderation. So would a lot of things. Speaking of which...

8. There is a better solution.

Just let people see what characters are on the same account as the character that's posting. It doesn't violate their privacy nearly as much as the current solution and it would be enough to deter most people from trolling because they don't want their trolling associated with their main. All that'd be left is people trolling from dummy accounts, which it sounds like they can do under the new system anyway, so Blizzard would just make some extra money off crazy cowards.

Why in this world they thought this would be more appropriate is beyond me. I can't think of a single forum that I use that requires you to display you first and last name with your posts, and WoW sure as hell isn't important enough to warrant that.

posted by Nattie at 8:15 PM on July 6 [301 favorites]

Jul 9, 2010#78

R

Raemon777

She posts convincing arguments for women gamers and minorities. Ok. I'm convinced, there are too many loopholes that can be exploited that puts people's safety in jeopardy. Regardless, I still personally wouldn't feel too scared.

Oh I was never (and still am not) afraid for my OWN personal safety. I don't post a lot on the forums and I don't PvP or even raid all that much. But this is absolutely the sort of thing where there NEEDS to be loud, unanimous dissent so that the people who are threatened don't have to suffer.

Jul 9, 2010#79

Dave

By the way, Raemon, GREAT find! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for posting that here.

Jul 9, 2010#80

Chazwozel

Raemon777 said:
She posts convincing arguments for women gamers and minorities. Ok. I'm convinced, there are too many loopholes that can be exploited that puts people's safety in jeopardy. Regardless, I still personally wouldn't feel too scared.

Click to expand...

Oh I was never (and still am not) afraid for my OWN personal safety. I don't post a lot on the forums and I don't PvP or even raid all that much. But this is absolutely the sort of thing where there NEEDS to be loud, unanimous dissent so that the people who are threatened don't have to suffer.

The only thing I'm ever concerned about in regards to internet safety are my family and my career. This is why I'm really reluctant to post family photos on Halforums, and I won't talk about were I specifically work etc...

But if someone, say Mav, were to show up at my door one day, I'd be happy to have the police escort him off my property (after a nice frank discussion with my ol' left and right hook of course).

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Dave said:
By the way, Raemon, GREAT find! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for posting that here.

Honestly, I had no idea that women were harassed so much in online video games. The ones I've always interacted with - in WoW for example - got along just fine within the guild. Then again I had a pretty nice guild.

Jul 9, 2010#81

ElJuski

That's Our Mav!!!!!!!!!

Jul 9, 2010#82

GasBandit

Mav said:
If you're really a college professor, we're all fucked. Thank god none of the professors I had going through college weren't a giant gapping asshole this side of the planet

Jul 9, 2010#83

R

Raemon777

Honestly, I had no idea that women were harassed so much in online video games. The ones I've always interacted with - in WoW for example - got along just fine within the guild. Then again I had a pretty nice guild.

It's possible that you're looking at the "get along nice" thing from the wrong angle. Consider that the woman writing the post was also in what she describes as a "nice" guild, but she was still constantly bombarded with people trying to talk to her. And she HAS to respond in a friendly manner because if she says "sorry, I really just wanna play right now, don't have time to talk" then she gets characterized as a shrill bitch. So bear in mind that the women you see acting all friendly with the guys all the time may be doing that specifically because they HAVE to.

Privilege and discrimination is something very hard to see when you're in the group that reaps the benefits.

Jul 9, 2010#84

Chazwozel

GasBandit;412364][QUOTE=Mav said:
If you're really a college professor, we're all fucked. Thank god none of the professors I had going through college weren't a giant gapping asshole this side of the planet

Man, what school did YOU go to? I'd say half my professors were the hugest assholes I've ever met in my life. Few people are as mean as a "research" prof who's forced to teach a class when he'd rather be "doing science."[/QUOTE]

Yeah, fortunately for my students, teaching is my primary focus. I'm actually a little pissed, I'm spending the summer taking some Education courses on teaching methods for secondary and college education and I'm learning all these 'nice' methods to deal with students. I wish I could just yell at them and flunk em, but that'll have to wait till tenure. muahahahhhahhaha

---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------

Raemon777 said:
Honestly, I had no idea that women were harassed so much in online video games. The ones I've always interacted with - in WoW for example - got along just fine within the guild. Then again I had a pretty nice guild.

Click to expand...

It's possible that you're looking at the "get along nice" thing from the wrong angle. Consider that the woman writing the post was also in what she describes as a "nice" guild, but she was still constantly bombarded with people trying to talk to her. And she HAS to respond in a friendly manner because if she says "sorry, I really just wanna play right now, don't have time to talk" then she gets characterized as a shrill bitch. So bear in mind that the women you see acting all friendly with the guys all the time may be doing that specifically because they HAVE to.

Privilege and discrimination is something very hard to see when you're in the group that reaps the benefits.

I suppose that makes sense. I never really played WoW to pick up chicks or hit on them to begin with...

Jul 9, 2010#85

ElJuski

I don't get why he doesn't believe you are accredited as you say you are. Just because you like Family Guy doesn't mean you can't perform science. Unless my theory that watching Family Guy makes you retarded is valid.

In which case you can't perform science.

Jul 9, 2010#86

Chazwozel

Gilman Chatsworth said:
I don't get why he doesn't believe you are accredited as you say you are. Just because you like Family Guy doesn't mean you can't perform science. Unless my theory that watching Family Guy makes you retarded is valid.

In which case you can't perform science.

Mav figures that everyone's a big fat loser like himself. But I digress, let us go back to the topic at hand shall we?

Jul 9, 2010#87

GasBandit

Chazwozel;412367][QUOTE=Raemon777 said:
Honestly, I had no idea that women were harassed so much in online video games. The ones I've always interacted with - in WoW for example - got along just fine within the guild. Then again I had a pretty nice guild.

Click to expand...

It's possible that you're looking at the "get along nice" thing from the wrong angle. Consider that the woman writing the post was also in what she describes as a "nice" guild, but she was still constantly bombarded with people trying to talk to her. And she HAS to respond in a friendly manner because if she says "sorry, I really just wanna play right now, don't have time to talk" then she gets characterized as a shrill bitch. So bear in mind that the women you see acting all friendly with the guys all the time may be doing that specifically because they HAVE to.

Privilege and discrimination is something very hard to see when you're in the group that reaps the benefits.

I suppose that makes sense. I never really played WoW to pick up chicks or hit on them to begin with...[/QUOTE]

You should have seen this "chat window collage" posted about 10 years ago by somebody who played a female toon PK on EQ1 (though I don't think the actual player was female, but since this was before voice chat hit mainstream even a female toon would do, no matter who was driving). Because this char killed people and looted them, a common and hardly noteworthy event today but back then it was a big deal, several nasty private /tells were sent their way... and because the toon was female, some of them were very graphic and sexually aggressive. I didn't keep a copy because a lot of it was really, really vile.

Never forget that the REAL reason you make a guild is not just so that you have people you like handy, but so that you can use them as a refuge to shelter your gaming experience from the other 99% of the game's population.

Jul 9, 2010#88

Piotyr

I suppose anonymity contributes to people being assholes on the internet. However, you can be a stalker/creep in the RealID system without making a forum post or actually making your presence known to the victim. That, I would guess, is the scary part for women and minorities. And fat people, maybe.

Jul 9, 2010#89

Chazwozel

Jul 9, 2010#90

Dave

Chazwozel said:

I don't have the Mav hate some of you do, but that's funny!

Jul 9, 2010#91

Shakey

And... Real names will no longer be required on the forums.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Regarding real names in forums

Jul 9, 2010#92

Dave

I'd like to think that that single post went a long way to helping them make up their minds.

Jul 9, 2010#93

Math242

Chazwozel said:

bwahahhahaahah

first half of my prediction: check

i'm the freaking Oracle, bitches

Jul 9, 2010#94

Shakey

Until Real ID no longer requires your real name to be disclosed, it's going to be an issue. It'll be interesting to see what their in-game plans are for it.

Jul 9, 2010#95

Chazwozel

Math242;412489][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

bwahahhahaahah

first half of my prediction: check

i'm the freaking Oracle, bitches[/QUOTE]

That dar is a $750,000 dollar (when it was brand new in 2006) Thermo LTQ. The inner part of that outside contraption (known as the source) costs $250,000 bucks. I occasionally have to remove it to give it a methanol bath. Essentially, I'm holding two CL-Class Mercedes-Benz's in my hand. This is why I love science. Expensive shit that I can play with.

Jul 9, 2010#96

Element 117

Chazwozel said:
The only thing I'm ever concerned about in regards to internet safety are my family and my career. This is why I'm really reluctant to post family photos on Halforums, and I won't talk about were I specifically work etc...

Honestly, I had no idea that women were harassed so much in online video games. The ones I've always interacted with - in WoW for example - got along just fine within the guild. Then again I had a pretty nice guild.

And this is Chaz.

Jul 9, 2010#97

Chazwozel

.Amy.;412531][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
The only thing I'm ever concerned about in regards to internet safety are my family and my career. This is why I'm really reluctant to post family photos on Halforums, and I won't talk about were I specifically work etc...

Honestly, I had no idea that women were harassed so much in online video games. The ones I've always interacted with - in WoW for example - got along just fine within the guild. Then again I had a pretty nice guild.

And this is Chaz.[/QUOTE]

What?

Jul 9, 2010#98

R

Raemon777

Well that's good news. Big question: can add-ons still reference and post your Real ID? 'Cause that was another huge issue (posted on the same thread as the one I linked to, I think in a different post).

Jul 9, 2010#99

LordRendar

Chazwozel said:

That is clearly photoshopped.I can tell.I have years of experience dealing with this kind of stuff.Its all pixelated and the shadows are off.

Jul 9, 2010#100

figmentPez

Chazwozel said:
That dar is a $750,000 dollar (when it was brand new in 2006) Thermo LTQ. The inner part of that outside contraption (known as the source) costs $250,000 bucks. I occasionally have to remove it to give it a methanol bath. Essentially, I'm holding two CL-Class Mercedes-Benz's in my hand. This is why I love science. Expensive shit that I can play with.

So, you're doing very expensive janitorial work?

I kid! Keep up the important work. For science!

Jul 9, 2010#101

Shegokigo

Wait they're rescinding the RL name thing?

Jul 9, 2010#102

Element 117

Dammit! Now I've got that damn cat's laugh in my head!

Jul 9, 2010#103

Hailey Knight

Damn, Mav is a reject.

Jul 9, 2010#104

Element 117

escushion said:
Damn, Mav is a reject.

this forum accepts him. And you. And me. We are all one. Just like the fucking autobot matrix promised, man.

Jul 9, 2010#105

Shegokigo

I accept Mav.

I like him, Neon Grue and all the other people that seem to get run out of here for their opinions and unfortunate lack of tact in certain situations. Sad we've lost so many due to attack after attack.

Most of the time I'm willing to bet that something they post, that gets attacked, was due to something happening to them on the other side of the keyboard and carried over to the forums in the wrong way.

Jul 9, 2010#106

Hailey Knight

.Amy.;412797][QUOTE=escushion said:
Damn, Mav is a reject.

this forum accepts him. And you. And me. We are all one. Just like the fucking autobot matrix promised, man.[/QUOTE]

If by the forum, you mean the actual computer coding accepts his user ID and password to allow him to log-in, then yeah.

I see a number of people taking pity on him, but scrolling through the Hall of Shame--or really, just his posting history--and reviewing his over-emotional, outlandish, stupid, whiny, misogynist, or disgusting posts, it's no wonder to see Chaz chomp after him so much. Chaz is an asshole, sometimes annoying. Mav comes off as the guy at some nowhere small-town gas station who tells the pretty lady who's just walking in for a soda and to pay for gas that he's going to make her dreams come true, if she'll just let him lock her away in his paradise shack. And then when she runs, wonders why she doesn't understand how nice he is.

Jul 9, 2010#107

Dave

Enough Mav-bashing. Like who you like, hate who you hate.

But he's accepted here, too.

Jul 9, 2010#108

Hailey Knight

That's fine; I've just typed what I wanted to type and then deleted it so many times over the past few years; I decided to just hit the button for a change.

Jul 9, 2010#109

Chazwozel

I want to set the record straight with the whole asshole issue on my part. I'm sorry. Some of you don't get my humor. That's ok. Some people I tear into when they act like idiots. We all at Halforums do though. That's just the way Halforums is. I've had my share of "boners" myself, but you guys know straight up, that if you throw down a convincing argument I will back up and admit I was wrong.

My language is harsh, my tone is blunt, but for the most part I do like and respect a lot of you guys. I just think it's a little unfair that I get called out as an asshole when the reality is that there are far worse people out there than me. Honestly, I don't type things out by pounding on the keyboard, nor am I an angry person. On the contrary, I'm probably the definition of Type B personality. So the next time you read one of my posts, please realize that 90% of the time it's pure deadpan or sarcasm. Don't take it to heart. The only posts from me you should take to heart are the sincere ones.

But I still think Mav is a 13 year old boy trapped in a man's body...

Jul 9, 2010#110

Hailey Knight

Chazwozel said:
I want to set the record straight with the whole asshole issue on my part. I'm sorry. Some of you don't get my humor. That's ok. Some people I tear into when they act like idiots. We all at Halforums do though. That's just the way Halforums is. I've had my share of "boners" myself, but you guys know straight up, that if you throw down a convincing argument I will back up and admit I was wrong.

My language is harsh, my tone is blunt, but for the most part I do like and respect a lot of you guys. I just think it's a little unfair that I get called out as an asshole when the reality is that there are far worse people out there than me. Honestly, I don't type things out by pounding on the keyboard, nor am I an angry person. On the contrary, I'm probably the definition of Type B personality. So the next time you read one of my posts, please realize that 90% of the time it's pure deadpan or sarcasm. Don't take it to heart. The only posts from me you should take to heart are the sincere ones.

But I still think Mav is a 13 year old boy trapped in a man's body...

No one gets you but your woman.

Jul 9, 2010#111

Shegokigo

Pffft, I get Chaz just fine. Our Troll Halforum Army will forever live in the hearts of all we laid waste upon!

Jul 9, 2010#112

Chazwozel

escushion;412835][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
I want to set the record straight with the whole asshole issue on my part. I'm sorry. Some of you don't get my humor. That's ok. Some people I tear into when they act like idiots. We all at Halforums do though. That's just the way Halforums is. I've had my share of "boners" myself, but you guys know straight up, that if you throw down a convincing argument I will back up and admit I was wrong.

My language is harsh, my tone is blunt, but for the most part I do like and respect a lot of you guys. I just think it's a little unfair that I get called out as an asshole when the reality is that there are far worse people out there than me. Honestly, I don't type things out by pounding on the keyboard, nor am I an angry person. On the contrary, I'm probably the definition of Type B personality. So the next time you read one of my posts, please realize that 90% of the time it's pure deadpan or sarcasm. Don't take it to heart. The only posts from me you should take to heart are the sincere ones.

But I still think Mav is a 13 year old boy trapped in a man's body...

No one gets you but your woman.[/QUOTE]

Jul 10, 2010#113

Krisken

Shegokigo said:
I accept Mav.

I like him, Neon Grue and all the other people that seem to get run out of here for their opinions and unfortunate lack of tact in certain situations. Sad we've lost so many due to attack after attack.

Most of the time I'm willing to bet that something they post, that gets attacked, was due to something happening to them on the other side of the keyboard and carried over to the forums in the wrong way.

This is probably the truest thing you've ever said.

Jul 10, 2010#114

Rubicon

stuff

Jul 10, 2010#115

Vrii

Hey Mav? When Dave comes into a thread telling people to lay off of you, following him in with that kind of shit probably isn't your brightest move.

Just a thought.

Jul 10, 2010#116

Rubicon

Yea I didn't see that, I was still reading Page 3 when I hit reply ;o

Jul 10, 2010#117

Chazwozel

Dave said:
Enough Mav-bashing. Like who you like, hate who you hate.

But he's accepted here, too.

Funny, cause he's explicitly one of the people that consistently proclaimed that "Chaz isn't one of us," Chaz is an outsider," "Various other Revenge of the Nerds mantras".

This is what I mean by 13 year old boy. There are no artificial stereotypes in the adult world like that. That kind of bullshit logic stems from years of watching too many movies instead of - you know - interacting with people.

That and his pity me, passive aggressive nature. Read Mav's profile page. I had to wade through a river of tears to complete on sentence. I fucking despise it when people wallow in self-pity.

I'm sorry this turned into a fuck you Mav thread, I really am. I didn't mean for my original response to him to lead in this direction, but my message remains the same: grow up. I know high school kids doing summer research in my lab that have a handle on reality better than Mav does.

I'm not trying to be a dick to you. I'm trying to help you grow a set.

Jul 10, 2010#118

Element 117

escushion said:
That's fine; I've just typed what I wanted to type and then deleted it so many times over the past few years; I decided to just hit the button for a change.

I type my sincere replies to posts like some in this thread, and then copy paste the most heartfelt ones to Dave in a pm. Or just navigate away.

Jul 10, 2010#119

ElJuski

Oh Chaz, you're all right.

Jul 12, 2010#120

David

I think this thread needs a group hug. Followed by cookies.

...and an orgy.

Jul 12, 2010#121

Jiarn

You can keep your hugs.... keep your orgies.... but give me your cookies

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