More interested in hearing from them when they practice what they preach.
You know... I hear that a lot. And you know what I have concluded? I know very few people, religious or not, who "practice what they preach" perfectly. And whenever someone doesn't do it perfectly someone is always there to say "
Ah-HA! Got you! You didn't do it all right so we don't have to listen to you or take you seriously!" Which is, I suppose, ones prerogative, however, I have a nagging feeling that if people applied that line of thinking to themselves and anyone else around them, religious or not, no one would ever have to listen to or take anyone seriously again.
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Who said anything about perfectly? I get the feeling this is a personal issue for you, and that's fine. However, don't be surprised when I say I expect religious leaders to follow their own tenets. I'm certainly not going to apologize for treating the hypocrites different than the people who are true to their calling. Maybe I expect more out of our religious leaders than the local idiot.
There's a shit load of stuff that goes beyond average, everyday contrary nature. "Practice what you preach" is a pretty basic facet of trust.[/QUOTE]
lol, It's not personal at all and I really hope you didn't think I was attacking you or anything, that wasn't my intent.
I just find it silly when people use an argument that essentially allows them to discount anyone for any reason (again, I'm NOT saying YOU were doing that, I'm just commenting on that phrase and it's use around here). It's just to broad. It's one thing to say, "Wow that guy doesn't help the poor but he keeps telling me too", which is fine and right I would argue, but your statement is so broad that it just makes it impossible for anyone to every say anything.
Does that make sense? To me it seems like a cheap way to not engage in discussion. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it either, lord knows I am but to be honest I was trying to make more of a general point about how I see that phrase used than trying to accuse you of anything in particular (sorry if it came out that way).
As far as your other comments, you know from our past discussion I agree with you, in fact I would venture to say I probably hold religious leaders to a hell of a lot higher standard than you or most people on this board, but even I have to temper that with the fact that I know they aren't perfect and they have to have room to be stupid people sometimes. Thats also a pretty big thing in most religions, that people will make mistakes and we need to have grace for them when they do, because hell, we want them to have grace for us when we inevitably screw up, otherwise everyone would be tossed out.
I like what C.S. Lewis said at the beginning of his book, "The Problem of Pain" (I think that was the one...), he said that he wanted to write the book under a pseudonym, because he knew that after his wife's death he had failed to live up to the words he was writing in this book, he knew he was a total hypocrite. Yet he felt that what he was saying in the book was important enough that even if he struggled to live up to it he had to put it out there and hope people could look past his own failings.
