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'Sugarbabe' favors negotiated infidelity - CNN.com

Is it just me or is this the dumbest article ever written?

It's a fairly long article that says basically that all men are going to cheat so you should probably get used to the idea and just let them, but make rules. Her rule is that her man can sleep with any woman he wants but he can't spend the night with them.

Again, the book is written by a "former mistress" who "posted an ad online announcing her search for a sugar daddy, someone who would pay her $1,000 a week in exchange for her company, cooking, conversation, massages and, when they desired it, sex."

Guys, do you think this would wash with the wife?

Ladies, how full of crap is this woman?

Someone needs to find the clip from Arrested Development where Lindsay and Tobias discuss having an open marriage.

The term is "Companion."

Seriously though, the lady has a skewed perspective (like almost anyone, for that matter). Men are not always going to cheat - nor are women, for that matter. Saying that they are is a blanket generality that I find more than a little offensive.

And as for having it go over with the wife? This is would about as well as inviting Hitler to a Bar Mitzvah

I call shenanigans. I had to stop at this line:

People who are higher in narcissim -- whether they are male or female -- are more likely to cheat.

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I'm hugely narcissistic - which I accept as a natural consequence of being as pretty as I am - and there's no way I would ever have an affair.

Even better idea! Have sex with your husband!

Piotyr said:

Even better idea! Have sex with your husband!

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So I'm guessing you're not married then...

Ehhh.

I'd go for an open relationship....IF i get to join in.

So I guess I'd go for a threesome, is what I'm saying. Except, while I would go for sleeping with another woman, I know my husband would never go for sleeping with another man...which has always been something I wanted. We can't reach a compromise on this so we're stuck with each.

I'm perfectly fine with that to.

Fun Size;423574][QUOTE=Piotyr said:

Even better idea! Have sex with your husband!

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So I'm guessing you're not married then...[/QUOTE]

Indeed, for six years. I'm trying to suggest an alternative method that many wives don't realize would help.

It was a joke.

Prrrrrt. So full of crap, I kind of feel sorry for her.

"Ideally the woman will want to stray as well," says Hill. "Some won't want to because they're at home taking care of toddlers. But the woman definitely needs to negotiate infidelity as well, especially because that will generate her man's competitive nature. The more lovers the woman has, the more attraction the man will have for his partner."

HA!
...yeah.

Would I go for it in my marriage? No. That's not my idea of what marriage is about. If it works for them, though, then more power to 'em. I also don't understand swingers, but for some people it's a good thing.

I am pretty lenient compared to most wives from the stories I get told. I can't believe how many of the guys Mr. Wasabi works with who have to ask for permission to go out with the guys. Permission! Like they are children! It blows my mind that anyone would treat their spouse (husband or wife) like that. Wanna go play poker? Have fun! Going to go to a titty bar? Enjoy and I hope the strippers aren't gross! The only thing I ask is that he lets me know ahead of time that he's going (don't spring it on me an hour before you're leaving) and that he calls if he's going to be home later than he thought so I don't worry that something bad has happened. That's it. I have shocked and amazed plenty of his co-workers and their wives because I don't keep my husband on a leash.

Fun Size said:

It was a joke.

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Oh, I know. I've been married for six years.

Wasabi Poptart said:

Would I go for it in my marriage? No. That's not my idea of what marriage is about. If it works for them, though, then more power to 'em. I also don't understand swingers, but for some people it's a good thing.

I am pretty lenient compared to most wives from the stories I get told. I can't believe how many of the guys Mr. Wasabi works with who have to ask for permission to go out with the guys. Permission! Like they are children! It blows my mind that anyone would treat their spouse (husband or wife) like that. Wanna go play poker? Have fun! Going to go to a titty bar? Enjoy and I hope the strippers aren't gross! The only thing I ask is that he lets me know ahead of time that he's going (don't spring it on me an hour before you're leaving) and that he calls if he's going to be home later than he thought so I don't worry that something bad has happened. That's it. I have shocked and amazed plenty of his co-workers and their wives because I don't keep my husband on a leash.

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I do this as well. Blue doesn't have to ask to go out. He hardly ever does take off for a night of fun with 'the guys' but he has the chance he doesn't have to ask me first.

The only thing I have asked him to ask my permission for is buying things. He gets bit of spare cash and burns through it...so I told him to call me before he purchases anything so I can help him evaluate if we really need the special addition BioShock 2 box or if Jet needs a mini roller coater that can be set up in the living room.

The answer is usually 'no'.

The author of that article is a moron... plain and simple.

Dave said:

'Sugarbabe' favors negotiated infidelity - CNN.com

Is it just me or is this the dumbest article ever written?

It's a fairly long article that says basically that all men are going to cheat so you should probably get used to the idea and just let them, but make rules. Her rule is that her man can sleep with any woman he wants but he can't spend the night with them.

Again, the book is written by a "former mistress" who "posted an ad online announcing her search for a sugar daddy, someone who would pay her $1,000 a week in exchange for her company, cooking, conversation, massages and, when they desired it, sex."

Guys, do you think this would wash with the wife?

Ladies, how full of crap is this woman?

Click to expand...

Negotiated "cheating" is just another name for "swinging" or "open relationship". There's a fairly large population of people who engage in this kind of thing, though it's definitely non-mainstream.

Some people think the world works for everyone like it works for them. I'm not a believer in one-size-fits-all solutions. I don't want a preacher, a housewife, a baseball star or a prostitute telling me what a 'normal' sex life is. I think I am smart enough to figure out on my own what works for me.

I knew a couple that their open marriage worked, at least for the 3 years that I knew them. It normally centered on the husband bringing home new "friends" from a nearby gay bar. Or the wife picking up a guy at the bar and seeing how he reacts in the morning when the husband wakes him up with a "favor." I damned near fell into that trap. I did not go through with it because she was married.

I know 2 guys that they flipped out that way.

Tinwhistler;423589][QUOTE=Dave said:

'Sugarbabe' favors negotiated infidelity - CNN.com

Is it just me or is this the dumbest article ever written?

It's a fairly long article that says basically that all men are going to cheat so you should probably get used to the idea and just let them, but make rules. Her rule is that her man can sleep with any woman he wants but he can't spend the night with them.

Again, the book is written by a "former mistress" who "posted an ad online announcing her search for a sugar daddy, someone who would pay her $1,000 a week in exchange for her company, cooking, conversation, massages and, when they desired it, sex."

Guys, do you think this would wash with the wife?

Ladies, how full of crap is this woman?

Click to expand...

Negotiated "cheating" is just another name for "swinging" or "open relationship". There's a fairly large population of people who engage in this kind of thing, though it's definitely non-mainstream.

Some people think the world works for everyone like it works for them. I'm not a believer in one-size-fits-all solutions. I don't want a preacher, a housewife, a baseball star or a prostitute telling me what a 'normal' sex life is. I think I am smart enough to figure out on my own what works for me.[/QUOTE]

Tin wins!

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have read in ages

I think the article is a bit skewed. The problem is not that "men always cheat" (which not all men do nor women, it is kinda like say all Asian are smart which is not true. I'm Asian, and I'm not that smart)

The main issue is to see WHY people cheat? my personal thinking is that people seek certain things in a relationship. When their partner doesn't provide certain things (remember it is mutual) people tend to seek out somewhere else if they can't find a compromise within the relationship.

It is not always about sex. It could be companionship, having a date night, enjoying time together. It can be anything really. I think people should focus more on why people cheat instead of ignoring and "negotiate" crap like the article. If the person really want an open relationship, there are many pitfalls in that and a very rocky road.

Hylian said:

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have read in ages

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What? Tin wins?

sixpackshaker;423598][QUOTE=Hylian said:

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have read in ages

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What? Tin wins?[/QUOTE]
:'(

Tinwhistler said:

I'm not a believer in one-size-fits-all solutions. I don't want a preacher, a housewife, a baseball star or a prostitute telling me what a 'normal' sex life is. I think I am smart enough to figure out on my own what works for me.

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I totally agree. And it extends beyond sex, too. I have a friend who is married. She and her husband have decided they do not want children. She has many people telling her that she will change her mind, her husband will want kids, this is a mistake for their marriage, etc. This is their marriage. This is what they have decided, together, and it works for both of them. No one should tell them it's wrong when they both agree it's what they want.

If I let people tell me how my marriage should go I either wouldn't have gotten married or I'd have been divorced after the first year or two.

Come on Dave, according to that author you're going to cheat anyways... might as well negotiate some rules and go on out there and start banging!

Dave said:

If I let people tell me how my marriage should go I either wouldn't have gotten married or I'd have been divorced after the first year or two.

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heh... that is a ditto for me.

I'm a firm believer that the #1 most important thing to keep a marriage going is a commitment to your spouse. I wouldn't recommend doing anything that even subconsciously betrays that commitment.

Note: That does not mean sticking with him while he beats you. In this case, he betrayed that commitment the first time he laid a violent hand on you.

Truthfully, I could bang other girls if I wanted. All I'd have to do is print this article out & give it to my wife.


I'm sure I'd have all the free time in the world to do it not too long after that.

but would you have the girls?

Dave said:

Truthfully, I could bang other girls if I wanted. All I'd have to do is print this article out & give it to my wife.


I'm sure I'd have all the free time in the world to do it not too long after that.

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Touché...

What the article describes is not my cup of tea, and the all-inclusiveness of it is stupid, but I know a few couples who have rules about outside the marriage sex, though not the "sugarbaby" type thing being described. For most of them, it's more about setting up threesomes, and swinging with other couples.

makare said:

but would you have the girls?

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No. I have no game and have even less so since I turned 40.

Oh come on. "Hey baby, you ever heard of Halforums? I own that shit." Dude, it's like an unlimited use free booty coupon.

Officer_Charon said:

The term is "Companion."

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I lol'd coffee out my nose. Thanks alot, asshole

So are you saying your wife is like Hitler?

Dave;423615][QUOTE=makare said:

but would you have the girls?

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No. I have no game and have even less so since I turned 40.[/QUOTE]

aw you can do it! or you could do it if need be.

LittleSin said:

Tin wins!

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You know, as often as people say this, you'd think my rep would be higher

"I think that cheating men are normal," says Hill. "Monogamous men are heroes. Monogamy does have a place in relationships, but not on the long-term. Men are hard-wired to betray women on the long-term."

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I understand that most people feel attraction for others even when they're in a monogamous relationship. I have no problem admitting that even the temptation of cheating is normal. But if I were a guy I'd find this highly insulting.

Funny, I read about this a few days ago and almost posted something. If people in a committed relationship do the whole open marriage thing, it doesn't effect me. I couldn't see myself being ok with it, and I think that in the end it can amount to nothing more than rationalization and insecurity. Maybe it works for some, but I've seen cases of people just doing whatever they can to keep someone around, no matter how much it hurts them. I don't care how tough or open-minded you are, I have a hard time believing most people wouldn't feel horrible with the thought it their head that they're not enough.

Tinwhistler;423625][QUOTE=LittleSin said:

Tin wins!

Click to expand...

You know, as often as people say this, you'd think my rep would be higher [/QUOTE]

It's inverse to how much people like you, I've found. But still #FishForRepBitches! (I'm just as guilty.)

Cajungal said:

"I think that cheating men are normal," says Hill. "Monogamous men are heroes. Monogamy does have a place in relationships, but not on the long-term. Men are hard-wired to betray women on the long-term."

Click to expand...

I understand that most people feel attraction for others even when they're in a monogamous relationship. I have no problem admitting that even the temptation of cheating is normal. But if I were a guy I'd find this highly insulting.

Funny, I read about this a few days ago and almost posted something. If people in a committed relationship do the whole open marriage thing, it doesn't effect me. I couldn't see myself being ok with it, and I think that in the end it can amount to nothing more than rationalization and insecurity. Maybe it works for some, but I've seen cases of people just doing whatever they can to keep someone around, no matter how much it hurts them. I don't care how tough or open-minded you are, I have a hard time believing most people wouldn't feel horrible with the thought it their head that they're not enough.

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I think you hit it on the head.

Back in the "old" days, multiple wives is ok, but in our current time and in most countries, people believe in monogamy. You (the general you) took a vow under law, god, gods, whatever you believe in, to cherish this one person you want to be for the rest of your life (at least that is the idea) so, once that promise is made, why cheat with another person? I do believe it is part of insecurity, but I believe some of the Forumites agree that is all boils down to communication.

Personally, marriage is a serious thing. If you think you want to cheat, why even be married?

Things like this frustrate me. We have free will. Yes, of course I am still attracted to other people when I'm in a relationship. But I decide whether or not to act on it, I'm not hardwired to do so!

Chibibar said:

Cajungal said:

I understand that most people feel attraction for others even when they're in a monogamous relationship. I have no problem admitting that even the temptation of cheating is normal. But if I were a guy I'd find this highly insulting.

Funny, I read about this a few days ago and almost posted something. If people in a committed relationship do the whole open marriage thing, it doesn't effect me. I couldn't see myself being ok with it, and I think that in the end it can amount to nothing more than rationalization and insecurity. Maybe it works for some, but I've seen cases of people just doing whatever they can to keep someone around, no matter how much it hurts them. I don't care how tough or open-minded you are, I have a hard time believing most people wouldn't feel horrible with the thought it their head that they're not enough.

Click to expand...

I think you hit it on the head.

Back in the "old" days, multiple wives is ok, but in our current time and in most countries, people believe in monogamy. You (the general you) took a vow under law, god, gods, whatever you believe in, to cherish this one person you want to be for the rest of your life (at least that is the idea) so, once that promise is made, why cheat with another person? I do believe it is part of insecurity, but I believe some of the Forumites agree that is all boils down to communication.

Personally, marriage is a serious thing. If you think you want to cheat, why even be married?

Click to expand...

Let me hit a few points in both CG's and Chibi's posts. I've known and been friends with a lot of alternative livestyles folks from cross-dressers to homosexuals, to BDSM aficionados to swingers. So, perhaps I have a unique point of view to share (though I can guess at that there are at least a couple other posters who could chime in if they chose).

From CG's post: I agree, most people might have a hard time with an open lifestyle. On the other hand, some people seem to handle it just fine. Those people tend to not fell into the mindset of equating sex with "being enough". I've known a number of swingers in my time, and I've never really known known any of them who thought their partners were 'inadequate' in any way. It's a different mindset when it comes to sexual relations, and people who equate sex, love, fidelity, desire and self worth all in one package tend to have a hard time wrapping their minds around it. There are a lot more kids today willing to do the whole "friends with benefits" thing than when I was a kid, but that mindset is closer to the mindset of someone with an open relationship--having a FWB really doesn't have much to do with love and romantic feelings. It's more about spontaneous fun with someone you like.

Are there folks who have relationship problems in open relationships? Naturally...same as there are folks who have relationship problems in all kinds of relationships. Do some people find that open relationships are not for them and cause them emotional upheavals? Undoubtedly. But there undeniably some people whose relationships thrive in that environment as well, though admittedly a small number.

From Chibi's post: Not everyone takes those Christian vows. And not everyone equates sex with love. If two people agree to be more sexually open than is considered mainstream, and it's something both people agree on, how is this "cheating? Both people are working within the rules of the relationship as they have defined it. To them, the marriage is more about loving and supporting each other and less about jealously standing guard over their partner's genitalia.

I know a couple that got married a couple of months before we did, and they swing. From all indications they're a very loving and devoted couple. They just happen to have a bit of open morality when it comes to sex. I could not imagine her leaving her husband, or him leaving her. They've supported each other emotionally through some pretty rough times, and except for this one aspect of their lives, they're seem to be a pretty normal family, they have some great kids, and seem to be getting along just fine in their lives.

This is why I take a pretty tolerant view on alternative sex practices...if what you're doing doesn't harm me or anyone else, who the hell am I to tell you that you're doing it wrong? I don't care if you're gay, wear women's underwear under your $3000 suit to board meetings, or buy big rubber dildos in the shape of animal penises (and yes, they exist). I don't care if you like to wear diapers and have a 'mommy' clean you up and put you in a giant crib. I don't care if you wear bunny costumes with a flap in the crotch for erotic access. I don't care if you dress in latex and your wife enjoys kneeling down to kiss your high leather boots. I simply just don't care.

I am uninterested and turned off by a great many things people do in the various alternate lifestyles categories, but you know what? I just don't do those things. If they make you happy, more power to ya. I'll be the last guy to bring down moral judgment on you for it.

(and to be clear, I originally started off replying to some points in CG's and Chibi's posts, but my soapboxing is in no way directed at them)

^ I agree with you there. Like I said, someone's sex life doesn't have to affect me (unless I'm in the mix somewhere ). If someone considers their open relationship to be healthy and they are truly happy, then that is great for them. For the people who aren't rationalizing or making a really unrealistic compromise, I'm sure it feels like a very deep form of trust. You have to trust every day that this person to whom you are committed is still going to go home with you, no matter how many other people are involved. That ain't for me... at least not at this point in my life. Who knows what the future will bring. But for now... noo thank you. You seem to have a lot more positive examples of this lifestyle. I'd be interested in meeting a couple that is happy in that kind of relationship. Maybe then the thought of it would make me less uncomfortable.

Bottom line: Like you or someone else said earlier--everyone has a slightly different idea of a typical relationship, and that's generally fine.

(And I figured )

And you can trust your partner to bring home the clap instead of the bacon.

Cajungal said:

I'm sure it feels like a very deep form of trust. You have to trust every day that this person to whom you are committed is still going to go home with you, no matter how many other people are involved.

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The couples I know in open relationships, their relationships are built on love, trust, and compromises (and that includes compromises on how they interpret 'open'), much like any other relationship. But I don't know any of them who are afraid that they're going to lose their partner to a hotter piece of ass...here's what I mean about a different mindset. For people in an open relationship, I don't think this is even a consideration. If the only thing holding a relationship together is the knowledge that you've got the 'best' vagina that your lover/husband/whatever has access to, that's not much to build a relationship on. Because there's always going to be a hotter piece of ass out there.



Think of it this way: A lot of couples, in fun, make "celebrity allowances"...like, say, a wife would say "Yeah, you can sleep with Scarlett Johonsson, and I'll take Johnny Depp, if you please", and it's all in fun. But let's say you actually DID have an opportunity to boink Depp and took it. Would you leave your beau afterward? Not likely. And if your beau was cool with it (as opposed to being insecure and threatened by it), you'd probably talk about and both share in the excitement of it all.

Now, replace "Johnny Depp" with "someone I've met that I'm attracted to physically". The only way that someone is going to steal you away emotionally is if you already are having emotional issues at home to begin with. And if you're already having emotional issues at home, swinging is probably not a great idea

I think my wife would stare at that ass too.

Krisken said:

I think my wife would stare at that ass too.

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Now, it is a basketball game. If a player walks past them... can she look? Or is she only to look at her husband when the men are running past?

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------

sixpackshaker said:

And you can trust your partner to bring home the clap instead of the bacon.

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And to the person that said I was trollish in the rep, what do you think will happen? People that take part in risky behaviors do not think about the consequences. I was being polite when I said the clap instead of all the other varieties of STD's these guys will likely bring home.

In support of what Cajun's saying, I just wanted to point out also (now that I'm not posting in haste) there are certainly situations where people make unhealthy compromises just to try to continue to cling to a relationship long after it is clear that their partner has strayed emotionally and physically. But I think I can say with a fair amount of confidence that all of the lifestyle people I know personally would frown deeply on that kind of one-sided emotional blackmail. Most people who choose a long-term swinging lifestyle tend to be very considerate of each others' feelings. They pretty much have to be when you're dealing with something as potentially emotionally charged as sex.

---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------

sixpackshaker said:

[/COLOR]

sixpackshaker said:

And you can trust your partner to bring home the clap instead of the bacon.

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And to the person that said I was trollish in the rep, what do you think will happen? People that take part in risky behaviors do not think about the consequences. I was being polite when I said the clap instead of all the other varieties of STD's these guys will likely bring home.

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that was me. I repped you as trollish because it was trollish

This follow up message has the logical fallacy of a hasty generalization (ie: swingers don't think about consequences), and also the implied stereotype that swingers are just slinging their cocks out there at every opportunity.
Swingers have high STD rate - UPI.com
That said, in the Netherlands, at least, swingers do have a higher STD rate. 10.4% as opposed to 10.0% in the straight population. That's quite the huge difference there.
Gay men had the highest rate (14%), but if one were to say "yeah, that gay life style--you can trust you're going to get the clap because them queers don't care about the consequences of their risky behavior" it'd clearly be recognized as a troll.

If you're going to troll, take your reps like a man

I don't understand how someone saying "engaging in risky behavior is going to lead to more consequences"is trolling. Sounds like reality. I'm not in much danger of being in eaten by a shark if I'm not swimming in shark infested waters.

Fifty-five percent of all diagnoses in the those age 45 and older were in swingers, compared with 31 percent in homosexual men.

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That is a big uptick.

If you are going to give rep, give it like a man.

I am also not aware that there is a Swingers check box on the Census forms. So most of the article is BS.

If you're going to have differing opinions on other peoples lifestyles, give your opinion like a man.


Amidoingitrite?

Also married men coming down with STD's pretty much means that some one in the relation ship "swung."

No glove no love.

Profit margin. No one wants a dirty ho.

Espy said:

I don't understand how someone saying "engaging in risky behavior is going to lead to more consequences"is trolling. Sounds like reality. I'm not in much danger of being in eaten by a shark if I'm not swimming in shark infested waters.

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Ah, but that's not what he said. What he said was you're pretty much guaranteed to get the clap because swingers don't care about consequences. That is both untrue and trollish.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

sixpackshaker said:

Fifty-five percent of all diagnoses in the those age 45 and older were in swingers, compared with 31 percent in homosexual men.

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That is a big uptick.

If you are going to give rep, give it like a man.

I am also not aware that there is a Swingers check box on the Census forms. So most of the article is BS.

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Yup, among men who were born in the early 60's. How much of that can you attribute to swinging and how much can you attribute to the era they were coming from?

Among the general population studied (and if you read the article, they'd been asking for sexual behavior at the clinic since 2007), the difference between straight and swinger's incidence of STD is only .4%

I had assumed he was referring more to the OP rather than your discussion on real swingers. Either way though, swingers are still taking a greater risk by having multiple partners so in some respects he's right. The real difference is if it's truly a community that understands the consequences and protects against them then, yes, they would be safer than the average bar hopper skank banger.

Bar hopper skank banger.

Sounds like a Dane Cook movie.

Observation: People who claim the other sex always cheats/are assholes/bitches are the exact same people who continually make poor relationship decisions. Always jumping into a relationship with the person they just met, not the least bit interested in the person they've known for a while who they know is a good person because they "don't want to spoil the friendship." They keep dating the same jerks over and over, never learning a lesson from it, or taking the wrong lesson out of it such as "The last white guy I dated was an asshole, I'm not going to to date any more white guys."

To me, married swinger or a person who date a lot then later married is no different in terms of risk.

If you date multiple partner (married or not) there is a chance that you could contract STD if you are not careful. To say that swingers gets it and married couple don't, doesn't really stick in my book. I mean a guy could have slept with 20 girls before settling down to one and still have STD from the past but didn't know it. STDs are strange stuff. They are little time bombs.

I mean if a guy (yea I pick on guys cause I'm a guy) dated 20 guys/girls before marry vs
a guy dated 1 girl and later SWING 19 more later has the same chance of STD in my book.

so to me, saying that swing has a high chance of STD is still. Now a true statement for me would be if you have multiple partners there is a chance since you don't know your partner's history.

The Dependent | Vancouver Blog » Welcome to The Lifestyle
Here's link to a good article on the club swinging scene, which I'm not really familiar with from a personal basis. However, I have two friends who are club swingers, and the story sounds pretty spot on.

Chibibar said:

To me, married swinger or a person who date a lot then later married is no different in terms of risk.

If you date multiple partner (married or not) there is a chance that you could contract STD if you are not careful. To say that swingers gets it and married couple don't, doesn't really stick in my book. I mean a guy could have slept with 20 girls before settling down to one and still have STD from the past but didn't know it. STDs are strange stuff. They are little time bombs.

I mean if a guy (yea I pick on guys cause I'm a guy) dated 20 guys/girls before marry vs
a guy dated 1 girl and later SWING 19 more later has the same chance of STD in my book.

so to me, saying that swing has a high chance of STD is still. Now a true statement for me would be if you have multiple partners there is a chance since you don't know your partner's history.

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And it is especially true with disease like HIV/AIDS that might not show up for quite a few years. There are other diseases you can have an never know it, like HPV. So if you slept around in your 20's then became monogamous in your 30's, you are still at risk of spreading or contracting an STD.

Tinwhistler;423736][QUOTE=Espy said:

I don't understand how someone saying "engaging in risky behavior is going to lead to more consequences"is trolling. Sounds like reality. I'm not in much danger of being in eaten by a shark if I'm not swimming in shark infested waters.

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Ah, but that's not what he said. What he said was you're pretty much guaranteed to get the clap because swingers don't care about consequences. That is both untrue and trollish.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

sixpackshaker said:

Fifty-five percent of all diagnoses in the those age 45 and older were in swingers, compared with 31 percent in homosexual men.

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That is a big uptick.

If you are going to give rep, give it like a man.

I am also not aware that there is a Swingers check box on the Census forms. So most of the article is BS.

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Yup, among men who were born in the early 60's. How much of that can you attribute to swinging and how much can you attribute to the era they were coming from?

Among the general population studied (and if you read the article, they'd been asking for sexual behavior at the clinic since 2007), the difference between straight and swinger's incidence of STD is only .4%[/QUOTE]

Diagnosis implies a new case. Also how many of these people that answered "hetero" to the doctor's questions just to stave off defending their life style to a doctor.

But be careful of sugar coating such a complex activity as swinging. You guys are pro-swinging I'll not trample on all of your good times any further.

That's me...pushing the Pro-Swinger Agenda™!

In truth, I just happen to have some personal, "seen it with my own eyes" information to share about a subject where only a small minority of people have personal knowledge. I've already admitted that, as with any relationship (which are all complex) there are pitfalls and problems--some especially unique to the lifestyle, and I'm happy to discuss what I know and what I've seen with my own eyes.

What I really wasn't interested in doing, personally, was getting into a tit-for-tat argument against knee-jerk inflammatory one-liners that really don't add anything to the dialog other than to polarize the discussion. And I certainly wasn't interested in getting into a "pro swinger" versus "anti swinger" debate, since it certainly isn't a lifestyle that is for everyone, or even the vast majority of people. I didn't neg rep you because of your viewpoint, but rather because of the inflammatory way you brought it to the discussion. I didn't even have that much emotional investment in the rep, which I had hoped my smiley face made obvious. But it seems like something in this discussion touched a nerve with you, which is unfortunate.

Honestly, I'd rather it be an open dialog and not some kind of pro swinger/anti swinger debate, because I certainly don't want to get stuck defending a lifestyle that I don't think works for very many people.

But hey, that's just me. I don't control the forum. If people wanna sling it out, I'm not going to be the one to stop them

3 Examples from my experience with friends.

1. Couple gets married at 18. At 20 the husband decides that he is gay/bi and wants an open marriage. I put gay first because that is his main preference, I don't think he slept with his wife much. He had other issues too. He had an affair with his wife's best friend (who was to be off limits,) who I dated later. And he was a predatory homosexual that went after the strait men his wife brought home, verified by one of the guys, and rumored by my then GF and another friend. I felt that the wife stuck with the marriage for reasons of insecurity and financial stability. And took part in her affairs in an attempt to make the husband jealous.

2. Was a case where I was dating a newly divorced woman that left her husband over a variety of reasons. One of the big ones was that he was constantly pressuring her to have a 3 way. She just felt that he was looking for permission to screw around on her. Which he eventually did, but sans-permission. We had a conversation about sex fantasies left unfulfilled, I basically said I had done just about everything that I wanted to do, so I had no real fantasies. She kept pushing, so I sarcastically joked about the "stereotypical 3 way." She became angry with me (or still angry at the Ex in my direction.) I then explain that I passed on those opportunities on 3 occasions, because I did not swing that way. But she held one flippant remark against me for the rest of the relationship.

3. I hung out with a friend of a friend, who came down to visit from the New York area. She was around 50 and married for 20+ years. She and her husband was involved in "The Lifestyle." He was even an inventor of sex toys. She said the first 5 or so years was fun, but 15 years later, she wanted to leave that behind. She even quit going to the parties. And she was seriously thinking about leaving her husband because he was too wrapped up in his sex drive to be a decent parent to their kids.

That is my personal second hand knowledge on the subject. It is very complex.

The surveys that I can find on the topic are quite small, and involve small samples that are skewed towards males that are currently living that lifestyle for less than 5 years. Males are quite happy to have sex with multiple partners, with few strings attached. People also get defensive or down right jingoistic when you ask them probing questions about their sexual habits.

The STD study listed was for only one STD clinic in one nation that has universal health care, over the span of 2 years, with only self defined sex roles listed.

The studies against the swinging lifestyle tend to be more along the lines of "One day I took Jesus to my heart, and I saw what I was doing was wrong." In other words, not to be believed either.

In the long run, I like to tell one line jokes. I've done it for years here. Troll posts are normally much more involved and polarizing than a Henny Youngman bit.

The first two examples are unfortunate, and sadly, not that uncommon in my experience. But they both really are more about some inconsiderate douche who just wants to fuck around, and not really about open relationships as an agreed upon lifestyle. Trust me, douchebag spouses and cheating are not the sole provenance of people who want open relationships. In the lifestyle circles, the stereotypical guy who wants an "open relationship" just as an excuse to act like a single guy and try to fuck anything that moves is pretty frowned upon. As with any relationship, an open relationship is about trust, rules, and compromise. If you don't have those things, you don't have a real relationship, much less an open one.

The third situation can happen to anyone, lifestyle or not...as couples get older, they can find that they end up growing apart. People and relationships grow, and if one person stays fixed while the other moves on, there will be problems in any relationship.

If you spend any time in the alternative lifestyle community, however, you'll tend to realize that the people are involved have the same kinds ups and downs and problems and successes as anyone else...just in a slightly different context.

In addition to the couple I mentioned prevoiusly, I know another couple that has been married since they were 18 (they're nearly 40 now), and are into BDSM and fairly open in their relationship. However, I don't think I've ever seen a more loving couple or one that works as well together as a team. I'm not trying to say that they haven't had to work through problems, because what couple doesn't? But they're as strong a couple as I've seen...stronger than any monogamous couple I've ever known.

My experience is:

"Hey, honey! You know what I'd like?"
"Give it up. Never happen."
"Okay."


I rule!

Dave said:

My experience is:

"Hey, honey! You know what I'd like?"
"Give it up. Never happen."
"Okay."


I rule!

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lol

I have been purposely a bit vague about my own experience...but i'm pretty sure i've posted this pic before.

For me, when I was single I had a couple of open relationships. All I asked was that I get the truth. You're seeing someone else on the side? I'm ok with that as long as she knows the deal. Hide it from me and sneak around like a douchebag, then I'm going to be pissed. Get jealous when I say I'm seeing someone else, then this is not for you anyway. Needless to say it didn't work out. I got lied to by two of the guys (as Tin put it, they were in it to fuck anything that moved) and the third turned out to have legal problems that I did not want to get mixed up in.
In a marriage, I can't see myself agreeing to an open relationship though. A drunken one time only three-some maybe, but not as a regular part of our relationship.

ive cheated with each and every one of you, you just dont know it. Like a ninja...especially with Dave, because of his flappy hooties.