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BioShock - Soon to become a reality!

Aug 16, 2011#1

Chibibar

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html

an artificial island - interesting idea. The only thing I can see if possible attack from anyone since they are not "protected" by any other country.

Aug 16, 2011#2

GasBandit

... I....

... it kills me to say it, but I don't think a small, manmade island can actually be self sustaining. I mean... you get tired of fish and seaweed pretty damn quick. Unless they build it over one of those vast undersea rare earth metal deposits I read about a few weeks ago, and have some kind of future-mining tech I've not heard of, or something.

Aug 16, 2011#3

strawman

Heh. The seasteading Institute has been around for a long time, trying to get rich people to invest in them. I believe they even launched some barges with offices in them to see if office workers would enjoy near-shoring.

1.5 billion might be enough to build something small, but the question is will they have a large enough revenue to continue operation.

Aug 16, 2011#4

SpecialKO

Maybe it's just the way that the article is written, but did anyone else think that the billionaire giving most of the quotes sounds like he thinks people will miss him?

Aug 16, 2011#5

Chibibar

GasBandit said:
... I....

... it kills me to say it, but I don't think a small, manmade island can actually be self sustaining. I mean... you get tired of fish and seaweed pretty damn quick. Unless they build it over one of those vast undersea rare earth metal deposits I read about a few weeks ago, and have some kind of future-mining tech I've not heard of, or something.

I did think about that, but I think it is a good experiment in terms of self sustaining if this were in space (i.e. can you grow food within the confine/technology) Granted this platform has access to air and water, but everything have to be either import/made locally (or recycle in case of space travel)

Aug 16, 2011#6

strawman

GasBandit said:
... I....

... it kills me to say it, but I don't think a small, manmade island can actually be self sustaining. I mean... you get tired of fish and seaweed pretty damn quick. Unless they build it over one of those vast undersea rare earth metal deposits I read about a few weeks ago, and have some kind of future-mining tech I've not heard of, or something.

I did a lot of investigation years ago into the institute. The plan is to give the wealthy a place to do things they can't legally do in the US, and to provide space for foreign workers to work in the same time zone as california, be close enough for the fat internet pipe, but far enough that they don't require a visa.

I don't think it'll be sustainable - at least for the first two or three generations of designs and political structures. But the idea is sound, and the cost of california land may make it financially viable even if it wouldn't normally work in most other environments.

Aug 16, 2011#7

Chad Sexington

I am Andrew Ryan and I am here to ask you a question: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the man in Washington; it belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican; it belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow; it belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...

Rapture.

Aug 16, 2011#8

GasBandit

stienman said:
I did a lot of investigation years ago into the institute. The plan is to give the wealthy a place to do things they can't legally do in the US, and to provide space for foreign workers to work in the same time zone as california, be close enough for the fat internet pipe, but far enough that they don't require a visa.

I don't think it'll be sustainable - at least for the first two or three generations of designs and political structures. But the idea is sound, and the cost of california land may make it financially viable even if it wouldn't normally work in most other environments.

Ah, so the people who "live" on the island will really have land-based holdings and will pay to "base" themselves on an independent seastedding "nation" with libertarian laws. Gotcha. That's cheating.

Aug 16, 2011#9

strawman

GasBandit said:
That's cheating.

Seems to work very well for a number of smaller nations who have inscrutible banks and small buildings that happen to house thousands of shell companies.

Aug 16, 2011#10

GasBandit

stienman said:
Seems to work very well for a number of smaller nations who have inscrutible banks and small buildings that happen to house thousands of shell companies.

By "that's cheating," I meant it isn't really a true experiment in libertarianism. It's just anarcho-capitalism.

Aug 16, 2011#11

HCGLNS

stienman said:
Heh. The seasteading Institute has been around for a long time, trying to get rich people to invest in them. I believe they even launched some barges with offices in them to see if office workers would enjoy near-shoring.

1.5 billion might be enough to build something small, but the question is will they have a large enough revenue to continue operation.

A small offshore oil rig costs about $500M US to build, but has operating costs in the range of $0.1M to 2M/day.

Aug 16, 2011#12

Shegokigo

A pirate's life for me! Yo Ho Yo Ho!
/

Aug 16, 2011#13

GasBandit

Much as I like boobie pictures, I can think of a lot less complicated fun and questionably legal activity to accomplish on 2 mil a day.

Aug 16, 2011#14

strawman

GasBandit said:
Much as I like boobie pictures, I can think of a lot less complicated fun and questionably legal activity to accomplish on 2 mil a day.

I suspect she's implying that she would be attacking such an island and pillaging *ahem* all its various treasures.

Aug 16, 2011#15

Shegokigo

stienman said:
I suspect she's implying that she would be attacking such an island and pillaging *ahem* all its various treasures.

I mean cmon. Billionaires all on an island, with lax gun control policies? I'd be stupid not to be interested.

Aug 16, 2011#16

HCGLNS

Shegokigo said:
A pirate's life for me! Yo Ho Yo Ho!

The Captain had a daughter,
Who fell in deep sea water,
And by her squeals,
We knew that eels,
Had found her sexual quarters!

Aug 16, 2011#17

GasBandit

Shegokigo said:
I mean cmon. Billionaires all on an island, with lax gun control policies? I'd be stupid not to be interested.

That's just silly. Any half-intelligent pirate would know better than to attack the island itself - you'd have a better chance of sacking Norfolk naval yards.

You might be able to snag some interesting stuff off the container ships they think they'll be seeing come to/from the island, though.

Aug 16, 2011#18

HCGLNS

The real money as a pirate for this "island" would be in smuggling items to the rich who forgot to pack enough blow for the month.

Aug 16, 2011#19

strawman

You'd only need to "smuggle" it if it was illegal on the island.

Aug 16, 2011#20

Shegokigo

GasBandit said:
That's just silly. Any half-intelligent pirate would know better than to attack the island itself - you'd have a better chance of sacking Norfolk naval yards.

You might be able to snag some interesting stuff off the container ships they think they'll be seeing come to/from the island, though.

Your basing this assumption that it's just money I'd be interested in. A billionaire enviroment with lax laws of any kind were the things I thought were only fantasy.

Aug 16, 2011#21

GasBandit

stienman said:
You'd only need to "smuggle" it if it was illegal on the island.

On an island where money is the only law, vices are going to really have to kick it up a notch, or have to involve breaking laws back on the mainland. Off the top of my head, I'd say human trafficking. Drugs not so much... what's to stop them from growing their own, after all?

Although, if one of the inhabitants of the island takes the long view and starts breeding their own humans, that trade goes away too. It'd need a hell of a lot of space, though, I think... so maybe not.

Aug 16, 2011#22

Shegokigo

It's such a paradise it's ridiculous what the possibilities are. I'm salivating.

Aug 16, 2011#23

GasBandit

Shegokigo said:
Your basing this assumption that it's just money I'd be interested in. A billionaire enviroment with lax laws of any kind were the things I thought were only fantasy.

Soooo... you WERE thinking about using it to base a pirate enterprise after all, and use the money there to leverage goods and services unavailable anywhere else without the exorbitant costs that come from moral censure, yes?
Added at: 18:07

Shegokigo said:
It's such a paradise it's ridiculous what the possibilities are. I'm salivating.

Welp, now all you need is the cash to pay your pirate rent, and your life of unrestrained hedonism awaits.

Aug 16, 2011#24

fade

Somehow I think the concept of a bunch of rich people with the same goals competing for the same resources will necessarily become anything but Libertarian. They'd either go full anarchy, or strictly controlled. You could argue that the control was in the hands of themselves, but since the residents and investors are the government, the government is controlling and "large".

Aug 16, 2011#25

HCGLNS

Aug 17, 2011#26

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
I mean... you get tired of fish and seaweed pretty damn quick.

If that's the only problem i think it would already count as having worked...

Aug 17, 2011#27

AshburnerX

fade said:
Somehow I think the concept of a bunch of rich people with the same goals competing for the same resources will necessarily become anything but Libertarian. They'd either go full anarchy, or strictly controlled. You could argue that the control was in the hands of themselves, but since the residents and investors are the government, the government is controlling and "large".

It'd probably end up as a democracy still, mainly because each party would have enough money to cut their loses and just leave if they wanted to. It's hard to oppress someone (or feel oppressed) when they have millions of dollars and the ability to make more, no matter what you do to them.

Aug 17, 2011#28

fade

I was thinking more of mutual infighting than oppression.

Aug 17, 2011#29

AshburnerX

fade said:
I was thinking more of mutual infighting than oppression.

Again, it's easy to get into a pissing match with your neighbors when you have the resources to just up and leave (possibly fucking them over BY leaving as well). A polite a society is one that has a mutually assured destruction when someone leaves.

Aug 17, 2011#30

fade

People who feel invested in something, regardless of their ability to leave, will fight to stay.

Aug 17, 2011#31

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
If that's the only problem i think it would already count as having worked...

Well, sure, if you call mercury poisoning and vitamin deficiency "working."

Aug 17, 2011#32

Null

GasBandit said:
Well, sure, if you call mercury poisoning and vitamin deficiency "working."

You could make good money importing orange juice to rich people with scurvy.

Aug 17, 2011#33

Zappit

So the ludicrously rich and selfish want a tax haven AND a place to have screw anything and two - four legs. Yeah - doesn't sound like any kind of social experiment or noble freedom-seeking project. I honestly CAN'T WAIT for this to FAIL miserably.

Aug 17, 2011#34

Null

Zappit said:
So the ludicrously rich and selfish want a tax haven AND a place to have screw anything and two - four legs. Yeah - doesn't sound like any kind of social experiment or noble freedom-seeking project. I honestly CAN'T WAIT for this to FAIL miserably.

Indeed. Like most self-selected elitists, they won't necessarily play well with others and the infighting will be fierce. After all, you have to consider that most of these people made their fortunes by screwing other people out of what they had. Figure they'll start hiring mercenaries within months, and after that, we just wait for the flames.

Aug 17, 2011#35

Shegokigo

Aug 17, 2011#36

GasBandit

For some reason, I'm reminded of the premise of Black Lagoon (the manga/anime, not "creature from").

(NSFW AUDIO)

Aug 17, 2011#37

Shegokigo

GasBandit said:
For some reason, I'm reminded of the premise of Black Lagoon (the manga/anime, not "creature from").

Aug 18, 2011#38

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
Well, sure, if you call mercury poisoning and vitamin deficiency "working."

Dying younger just means less of a burden on the healthcare system...

Aug 18, 2011#39

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Dying younger just means less of a burden on the healthcare system...

I don't think multibillionaires are exactly so much a health care "burden" as they are a health care "gravy train."

Aug 18, 2011#40

@Li3n

Hey, every billion saved adds up...

Aug 18, 2011#41

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Hey, every billion saved adds up...

But it's like saying that the weight of all that fuel in your gas tank is making your car not able to travel as far.

Aug 18, 2011#42

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
But it's like saying that the weight of all that fuel in your gas tank is making your car not able to travel as far.

Am i being too subtle or are you just bored?

Aug 18, 2011#43

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Am i being too subtle or are you just bored?

You're being subtly wrong

And you can always assume that if I'm posting, it's because I'm bored at work.

Aug 19, 2011#44

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
You're being subtly wrong

Pretty sure that's what made the joke work...

Aug 19, 2011#45

Null

@Li3n said:
Pretty sure that's what made the joke work...

Just ask Kerri DeLong.

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