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Bombbombbomb BombBombIran
#1
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090927/world/iran_defence_military_missile
So...I'm starting to feel a little concered about the situation. Iran seems more viable a threat than Korea to fire off legitimate missles. Admittedly, the article mentions that the missles are short-range, in distance within "Israel, most Arab states, parts of Europe (including Turkey)".
So...I'm starting to feel a little concered about the situation. Iran seems more viable a threat than Korea to fire off legitimate missles. Admittedly, the article mentions that the missles are short-range, in distance within "Israel, most Arab states, parts of Europe (including Turkey)".
#2
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
I seriously don't get the logic behind "I threaten you America, I will use a big missle!" when they MUST realize that if they even sneeze hard, we'd drop thousands soldiers in their country for the next 10 years.
#3
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
They're doing it because they know we are stretched thin at the moment and that public opinion of us in the Middle East isn't great (to say the least). It's mainly about pacifying the hardliners in their own and other countries by looking like they could actually DO something to Israel in a fight... never mind that Israel fought off like 3-4 countries combined armies and WON the last time they had a large scale conflict.I seriously don't get the logic behind "I threaten you America, I will use a big missle!" when they MUST realize that if they even sneeze hard, we'd drop thousands soldiers in their country for the next 10 years.
#4
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
They realize that if America were in any real danger, we'd be all over them don't they? Stretched thin or not?
Then again, I am inclined to believe they're all hot air and talking out their ass about doing any real action.
Then again, I am inclined to believe they're all hot air and talking out their ass about doing any real action.
#5
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
I somehow doubt that other countries in the region are all "friendly" with this. Lebanon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia in particular can't be happy, and given Qatar's relationship with the US Military, they're probably not too thrilled either.
#6
Iaculus
Iaculus
So, think the Israeli Air Force's back from bombing the site into dust yet?
#7
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Basically this. Israel is the only Airforce in the area that could possibly fight us and we're their closet ally. No one else has anything close to threatening us or anyone.So, think the Israeli Air Force's back from bombing the site into dust yet?
#8
Iaculus
Hey, who says it's anything to do with the States?
Israel gets... antsy about having nukes pointed at it.
Iaculus
Basically this. Israel is the only Airforce in the area that could possibly fight us and we're their closet ally. No one else has anything close to threatening us or anyone.[/QUOTE]So, think the Israeli Air Force's back from bombing the site into dust yet?
Hey, who says it's anything to do with the States?
Israel gets... antsy about having nukes pointed at it.
#9
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
To quote Robin Williams, "We'll bomb you back to the Stone Age" and Iran will think, "Ooh! Upgrade!"
#10
Rob King
Rob King
And also pay no attention to the fact that a few 'incidents' before that they fought three foreign nations and won in only six days....never mind that Israel fought off like 3-4 countries combined armies and WON the last time they had a large scale conflict.
#11
Covar
Covar
I really don't get where people are getting these "stretched thin" comments.
#12
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
We're stretched thin because we don't want to pull anyone else away from other important assignments, like protecting Japan, South Korea, and Israel. We pull people from those places and we'll have some real serious problems.I really don't get where people are getting these "stretched thin" comments.
#13
Rob King
But I'm not from the area, so I don't know. I do know that the Japanese don't have a full army, just a "Japan Defense Force," but I figured that would be up to the task of Defending Japan. You know, just based on the nomenclature.
Rob King
Is Japan really still at risk? I mean, I can buy it being a great location to have some troops, just in case shit goes down in the region. I mean, China is right there, and it's a little farther from the North Korean reach than South Korea. But I can't imagine anyone gunning for Japan right now.We're stretched thin because we don't want to pull anyone else away from other important assignments, like protecting Japan, South Korea, and Israel. We pull people from those places and we'll have some real serious problems.
But I'm not from the area, so I don't know. I do know that the Japanese don't have a full army, just a "Japan Defense Force," but I figured that would be up to the task of Defending Japan. You know, just based on the nomenclature.
#14
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
Man, everyone always forgets about Godzilla.Is Japan really still at risk?
#15
Dave
There are a lot of places in the south of the United States that are more backwards than Iran.
---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------
Add in the fact that when we were threatened we rose up. Look at the numbers of people who enlisted after 9/11. We'd still be seeing those numbers had we kept the war on the terrorists and not Bush's private Iraqi vendetta.
Dave
You have no idea about what modern day Iran is like, do you? Granted, their government is wacky, but the people and industry are more like us than you realize.To quote Robin Williams, "We'll bomb you back to the Stone Age" and Iran will think, "Ooh! Upgrade!"
There are a lot of places in the south of the United States that are more backwards than Iran.
---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------
Add in the fact that when we were threatened we rose up. Look at the numbers of people who enlisted after 9/11. We'd still be seeing those numbers had we kept the war on the terrorists and not Bush's private Iraqi vendetta.
#16
fade
fade
I loved when The Daily Show did a "Jaywalking" bit in Tehran (supposedly), and everyone there knew more US politics than most of the people in your average healthcare Town Hall, and knew more pop culture than I did. Yet Joe Sixpack thinks of Iran as some backwater camel town. (Of course, they handpicked just like Leno does. But it was clear it was an average city)
#17
Covar
There are a lot of places in the south of the United States that are more backwards than Iran.
---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------
Add in the fact that when we were threatened we rose up. Look at the numbers of people who enlisted after 9/11. We'd still be seeing those numbers had we kept the war on the terrorists and not Bush's private Iraqi vendetta.[/QUOTE]
Recruiting numbers have actually Spiked this past year. We've been told that the Army has actually been meeting their quota and turning people away. Not sure what the levels are as I don't keep up with that stuff, but it's certainly not the "PLEASE JOIN THE MILITARY" situation that it was a couple of years ago.
/me hopes those numbers drop back down in a couple of years so he can be offered a large resigning bonus.
Covar
You have no idea about what modern day Iran is like, do you? Granted, their government is wacky, but the people and industry are more like us than you realize.To quote Robin Williams, "We'll bomb you back to the Stone Age" and Iran will think, "Ooh! Upgrade!"
There are a lot of places in the south of the United States that are more backwards than Iran.
---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------
Add in the fact that when we were threatened we rose up. Look at the numbers of people who enlisted after 9/11. We'd still be seeing those numbers had we kept the war on the terrorists and not Bush's private Iraqi vendetta.[/QUOTE]
Recruiting numbers have actually Spiked this past year. We've been told that the Army has actually been meeting their quota and turning people away. Not sure what the levels are as I don't keep up with that stuff, but it's certainly not the "PLEASE JOIN THE MILITARY" situation that it was a couple of years ago.
/me hopes those numbers drop back down in a couple of years so he can be offered a large resigning bonus.
#18
AshburnerX
But I'm not from the area, so I don't know. I do know that the Japanese don't have a full army, just a "Japan Defense Force," but I figured that would be up to the task of Defending Japan. You know, just based on the nomenclature.[/QUOTE]
North Korea has been routinely launching test missiles into the Sea of Japan. They are very close to having enough range to hit Japan and their relationship with North Korea is anything BUT friendly (Even South Korea and Japan barely get along). As for the Japanese Self Defense Force... it's mainly a joke. They have excellent hand to hand programs, but their modern military training and equipment leaves a lot to be desired. They also have a fairly antiquated Air Force and Navy. If China or North Korea actually tried something, they would have a serious problem without US or South Korean intervention.
AshburnerX
Is Japan really still at risk? I mean, I can buy it being a great location to have some troops, just in case shit goes down in the region. I mean, China is right there, and it's a little farther from the North Korean reach than South Korea. But I can't imagine anyone gunning for Japan right now.We're stretched thin because we don't want to pull anyone else away from other important assignments, like protecting Japan, South Korea, and Israel. We pull people from those places and we'll have some real serious problems.
But I'm not from the area, so I don't know. I do know that the Japanese don't have a full army, just a "Japan Defense Force," but I figured that would be up to the task of Defending Japan. You know, just based on the nomenclature.[/QUOTE]
North Korea has been routinely launching test missiles into the Sea of Japan. They are very close to having enough range to hit Japan and their relationship with North Korea is anything BUT friendly (Even South Korea and Japan barely get along). As for the Japanese Self Defense Force... it's mainly a joke. They have excellent hand to hand programs, but their modern military training and equipment leaves a lot to be desired. They also have a fairly antiquated Air Force and Navy. If China or North Korea actually tried something, they would have a serious problem without US or South Korean intervention.
Recruiting always goes up during Recessions, as people who would formerly take low tier service jobs instead are forced into military service to find work. However, I'm sure the recent surge in Patriotism is probably helping too.Recruiting numbers have actually Spiked this past year. We've been told that the Army has actually been meeting their quota and turning people away. Not sure what the levels are as I don't keep up with that stuff, but it's certainly not the "PLEASE JOIN THE MILITARY" situation that it was a couple of years ago.
/me hopes those numbers drop back down in a couple of years so he can be offered a large resigning bonus.
#19
strawman
Second, it's no different than the tit-for-tat that USA and China have been doing for years. They knock down a satellite with ground based missiles? Guess what we did a month or so later. Every country has to 'keep up with the jones' militarily and very publicly, or risk getting attacked.
I think the part Iran is playing at right now is the "nervously crazy people that might explode a nuke in an important country if someone tries to hurt us" and for the most part it's working. They haven't been attacked by their enemies yet.
They don't have the military to follow up on a nuclear assault, though, so the only reason they are gearing up the way they are is to prevent others from thinking they are easy prey.
-Adam
strawman
First, it's a completely different culture, so unless you have studied and lived with them for years you probably are not going to get their logic.I seriously don't get the logic behind "I threaten you America, I will use a big missle!" when they MUST realize that if they even sneeze hard, we'd drop thousands soldiers in their country for the next 10 years.
Second, it's no different than the tit-for-tat that USA and China have been doing for years. They knock down a satellite with ground based missiles? Guess what we did a month or so later. Every country has to 'keep up with the jones' militarily and very publicly, or risk getting attacked.
I think the part Iran is playing at right now is the "nervously crazy people that might explode a nuke in an important country if someone tries to hurt us" and for the most part it's working. They haven't been attacked by their enemies yet.
They don't have the military to follow up on a nuclear assault, though, so the only reason they are gearing up the way they are is to prevent others from thinking they are easy prey.
-Adam
#20
Rob King
For most, that's enough. Nobody is going to risk a nuclear attack. Not from Iran, or Fraggle Rock.
Rob King
Pretty much this. It's less about convincing the world that they could win a fight, and more about letting everyone know that even if you bested them in war, you won't come out unscathed.I think the part Iran is playing at right now is the "nervously crazy people that might explode a nuke in an important country if someone tries to hurt us" and for the most part it's working. They haven't been attacked by their enemies yet.
They don't have the military to follow up on a nuclear assault, though, so the only reason they are gearing up the way they are is to prevent others from thinking they are easy prey.
-Adam
For most, that's enough. Nobody is going to risk a nuclear attack. Not from Iran, or Fraggle Rock.
#21
rabbitgod
For most, that's enough. Nobody is going to risk a nuclear attack. Not from Iran, or Fraggle Rock.[/QUOTE]
Well, only if we stop that fundamentalist Doozer agenda.
rabbitgod
Pretty much this. It's less about convincing the world that they could win a fight, and more about letting everyone know that even if you bested them in war, you won't come out unscathed.I think the part Iran is playing at right now is the "nervously crazy people that might explode a nuke in an important country if someone tries to hurt us" and for the most part it's working. They haven't been attacked by their enemies yet.
They don't have the military to follow up on a nuclear assault, though, so the only reason they are gearing up the way they are is to prevent others from thinking they are easy prey.
-Adam
For most, that's enough. Nobody is going to risk a nuclear attack. Not from Iran, or Fraggle Rock.[/QUOTE]
Well, only if we stop that fundamentalist Doozer agenda.
#22
Mutiny
Mutiny
Did someone call for my avatar?Not from Iran, or Fraggle Rock.
#23
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
Haha, that's exactly what happened with North Korea. They did there little missile tests, meanwhile the U.S. launches ballistic missiles in a 'test' to within a couple of yards of accuracy. I actually laughed when that happened, it's a nice reminder to these fuckwit dictators.I seriously don't get the logic behind "I threaten you America, I will use a big missle!" when they MUST realize that if they even sneeze hard, we'd drop thousands soldiers in their country for the next 10 years.
#24
Iaculus
The issue, though, is that with enough nukes, accuracy becomes irrelevant. It's like a country-sized dead-man switch; "fuck with us and we end the world". It doesn't matter if other countries can do it as well, just so long as one crazy with the proper motivation has his hand on the button.
Now, I'm not saying most of these countries are there or anywhere near, but that's the threat we should be genuinely scared of - someone who doesn't care that they get blown up/martyred so long as they take their foes with them. Luckily, most leaders so far have had a sense of self-preservation, but again, it only takes one.
Iaculus
Haha, that's exactly what happened with North Korea. They did there little missile tests, meanwhile the U.S. launches ballistic missiles in a 'test' to within a couple of yards of accuracy. I actually laughed when that happened, it's a nice reminder to these fuckwit dictators.[/QUOTE]I seriously don't get the logic behind "I threaten you America, I will use a big missle!" when they MUST realize that if they even sneeze hard, we'd drop thousands soldiers in their country for the next 10 years.
The issue, though, is that with enough nukes, accuracy becomes irrelevant. It's like a country-sized dead-man switch; "fuck with us and we end the world". It doesn't matter if other countries can do it as well, just so long as one crazy with the proper motivation has his hand on the button.
Now, I'm not saying most of these countries are there or anywhere near, but that's the threat we should be genuinely scared of - someone who doesn't care that they get blown up/martyred so long as they take their foes with them. Luckily, most leaders so far have had a sense of self-preservation, but again, it only takes one.
#25
fade
fade
A couple of yards? I'm surprised. They may have actually nerfed the accuracy for the demonstration. I'd expect a few centimeters or less. Even against a target acquired after launch. I can't say much, but suffice it to say you'd be surprised how oxymoronically accurate a statistically fuzzy targeting algorithm is.
#26
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Th old saying was "With the V-2 was first introduced, you could generally pick which city block they would hit. These days, you can pick which window of the building you want to hit." That was 5-10 years ago... I imagine it's even better now.A couple of yards? I'm surprised. They may have actually nerfed the accuracy for the demonstration. I'd expect a few centimeters or less. Even against a target acquired after launch. I can't say much, but suffice it to say you'd be surprised how oxymoronically accurate a statistically fuzzy targeting algorithm is.
#27
Iaculus
Well yes. I mean, there's all those stories from folks in Iraq about Tomahawks slowing down to turn round street corners, and that's just cool.
Iaculus
Th old saying was "With the V-2 was first introduced, you could generally pick which city block they would hit. These days, you can pick which window of the building you want to hit." That was 5-10 years ago... I imagine it's even better now.[/QUOTE]A couple of yards? I'm surprised. They may have actually nerfed the accuracy for the demonstration. I'd expect a few centimeters or less. Even against a target acquired after launch. I can't say much, but suffice it to say you'd be surprised how oxymoronically accurate a statistically fuzzy targeting algorithm is.
Well yes. I mean, there's all those stories from folks in Iraq about Tomahawks slowing down to turn round street corners, and that's just cool.
#28
Rob King
Well yes. I mean, there's all those stories from folks in Iraq about Tomahawks slowing down to turn round street corners, and that's just cool.[/QUOTE]
Because missiles always hit their targets horizontally, you know.
Rob King
Th old saying was "With the V-2 was first introduced, you could generally pick which city block they would hit. These days, you can pick which window of the building you want to hit." That was 5-10 years ago... I imagine it's even better now.[/QUOTE]A couple of yards? I'm surprised. They may have actually nerfed the accuracy for the demonstration. I'd expect a few centimeters or less. Even against a target acquired after launch. I can't say much, but suffice it to say you'd be surprised how oxymoronically accurate a statistically fuzzy targeting algorithm is.
Well yes. I mean, there's all those stories from folks in Iraq about Tomahawks slowing down to turn round street corners, and that's just cool.[/QUOTE]
Because missiles always hit their targets horizontally, you know.
#29
Iaculus
Well yes. I mean, there's all those stories from folks in Iraq about Tomahawks slowing down to turn round street corners, and that's just cool.[/QUOTE]
Because missiles always hit their targets horizontally, you know.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I know guided missiles exist, but there's a difference between wiggling a little to get to your target and following a freakin' road map at supersonic speeds. Especially in your average Iraqi town.
Iaculus
Th old saying was "With the V-2 was first introduced, you could generally pick which city block they would hit. These days, you can pick which window of the building you want to hit." That was 5-10 years ago... I imagine it's even better now.[/QUOTE]A couple of yards? I'm surprised. They may have actually nerfed the accuracy for the demonstration. I'd expect a few centimeters or less. Even against a target acquired after launch. I can't say much, but suffice it to say you'd be surprised how oxymoronically accurate a statistically fuzzy targeting algorithm is.
Well yes. I mean, there's all those stories from folks in Iraq about Tomahawks slowing down to turn round street corners, and that's just cool.[/QUOTE]
Because missiles always hit their targets horizontally, you know.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I know guided missiles exist, but there's a difference between wiggling a little to get to your target and following a freakin' road map at supersonic speeds. Especially in your average Iraqi town.
#30
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
You'd be surprised at what you can do with a Nikita.
#31
Rob King
Rob King
I suppose. But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility that they are freaky accurate. I'd bet on it, actually.Hey, I know guided missiles exist, but there's a difference between wiggling a little to get to your target and following a freakin' road map at supersonic speeds. Especially in your average Iraqi town.
#32
Hylian
Hylian
#33
Iaculus
Dude, I know they are. That's why I mentioned the Tomahawk example - because those things are awesome.
Iaculus
I suppose. But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility that they are freaky accurate. I'd bet on it, actually.[/QUOTE]Hey, I know guided missiles exist, but there's a difference between wiggling a little to get to your target and following a freakin' road map at supersonic speeds. Especially in your average Iraqi town.
Dude, I know they are. That's why I mentioned the Tomahawk example - because those things are awesome.
#34
strawman
strawman
Keep in mind that cruise missiles don't need to hit their target - they just need to get within 50 feet and explode. The explosives do the rest.
-Adam
-Adam
#35
Rob King
Dude, I know they are. That's why I mentioned the Tomahawk example - because those things are awesome.[/QUOTE]
I see I see. Sorry about that. It sounded like your position was that they are inaccurate.
Carry on then.
Rob King
I suppose. But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility that they are freaky accurate. I'd bet on it, actually.[/QUOTE]Hey, I know guided missiles exist, but there's a difference between wiggling a little to get to your target and following a freakin' road map at supersonic speeds. Especially in your average Iraqi town.
Dude, I know they are. That's why I mentioned the Tomahawk example - because those things are awesome.[/QUOTE]
I see I see. Sorry about that. It sounded like your position was that they are inaccurate.
Carry on then.
#36
Deschain
Deschain
I think Iran would be deluded if they thought we were stretched thin. In the event of a stand-up war, not the kind we are currently holding Afghanistan and Iraq, we would definitely have forces to bring into position. I think other nations would deploy troops as well if Iran did something really stupid, like set off a nuclear missile.