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I searched for a bit but didnt see anything recent on the topic so I figured I would ask. I am looking for a decent set of general use headphones, their use will be media and games, and I'd like to spend under 300 bucks. I wear glasses so a set that doesnt make my head hurt after 20 minutes is a must.

an audiophile friend suggested the Sennheiser HD280PRO, but i figured it was worth checking with the forums before i take the plunge.

Open ear or closed? Do you want an integrated microphone?

Denbrought said:

Open ear or closed

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closed and no mic, I have a Yeti Pro for a mic and dont want sound leak when recording my podcast.

The gospel of Head-fi says the answer is always ATH-M50.

I have an Audio Technica ATH-a700 set, and I adore it. I think the ATH-M50 is the next step up. Listening to music on these things is awesome, years and years of computer speakers (even good ones) make you forget how good music can sound.

Bones said:

an audiophile friend suggested the Sennheiser HD280PRO, but i figured it was worth checking with the forums before i take the plunge.

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I'm quite fond of my Sennheiser HD280PRO. They've served me very well over the last 6+ years.

Can confirm that Audio Technica makes some really nice headphones.
Only things I can add off the cuff are to restrict yourself to fully enclosed ear cups (otherwise you will have sound bleed) and ones which have a generous depth to the ear cup (to make sure it fully seals). The glasses part, though? That's gonna be difficult, because unless you find a headset that is roomy enough to go fully around your ear without overlap, the ear cup is gonna mash the arm of your glasses between your ear and the side of your head. And even if you do find one with large enough drivers to go around your ears, they're still gonna press the arms of your glasses into the sides of your head.

GasBandit said:

I have an Audio Technica ATH-a700 set, and I adore it. I think the ATH-M50 is the next step up. Listening to music on these things is awesome, years and years of computer speakers (even good ones) make you forget how good music can sound.

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I have been using my pair of ATH-M40ƒs for almost 20 years now, and unless I want to spring for some LCD-XC's, I doubt I could significantly improve my situation.

--Patrick

out of curiosity what do i get by jumping from the ATH-50 to the ATH-70? I think either of whats been suggested would work awesome for what I want but i figure it is worth asking.

M50s are probably overrated at this point, but are fine. HD280s are also fine. Really hard to suggest something without knowing what kind of sound you like, but I might suggest the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 as they're supposed to be super comfy. Also Beyerdynamic DT770s. You can also always roll different pads on there, although they will affect sound (I have these pads on one pair of headphones, they are the most comfortable headphones I have, although there are other good pad options out there).

I dont know what sound i would want either. Im using them for media and games so basically just full sound stage low to high. Beyond that im not really that picky.

Bones said:

out of curiosity what do i get by jumping from the ATH-50 to the ATH-70? I think either of whats been suggested would work awesome for what I want but i figure it is worth asking.

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First of all I assume you mean the ATH-M50x and ATH-M70x (there used to be an ATH-M50, but it has been discontinued).
As to the difference, the 70's are 5 grams lighter, have a significantly wider frequency response (5Hz-40kHz vs 15Hz-28kHz for the M50x), and they have lower impedance (don't need as strong of an amplifier). But they are twice the price ($300 vs $150).

--Patrick

Bones said:

basically just full sound stage low to high. Beyond that im not really that picky.

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For sound stage open backs are generally better. Maybe Sennheiser Momentums or ATH MSR7. I've not tried either but heard good things.

drifter said:

For sound stage open backs are generally better.

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He said he wanted to use them while recording, so open backs probably won't be a good idea, since they'll bleed back into his mic.

--Patrick

Just setting expectations. The Momentums and MSR7 are both closed back.

Hey @Bones I'd guess you probably already got some headphones, but if not the M50x is the Deal of the Day at Amazon for $103

I have a pair of Sony MDR7506 that I bought to use at work. They sound good, and are pretty comfortable for my large ears, but make my ears hot like every other pair of over ear sets. They're good enough to block out the white noise in my office without needing active noise cancelling, and only $79.

Amazon product

This seemed like as good a place as any to put this:



Also the price on Audeze's website actually lists $399 so either the price dropped a lot or they're on sale right now?

--Patrick

sooo uhhhh, finally got a pair of ath-m50x and proceeded to upgrade them a bit >_>

ok so I have had my M50s for a few months and I love them, but im ready for something more, where do I go from here?

Depends on the sound signature you want/type of music you like, and how much you want to spend. Cost can ramp up pretty fast for incremental gains, and it's all pretty subjective. Without knowing what you're looking for, I'd suggest getting a pair of open backs, or maybe some planars, so you can get a taste of what other types of headphones can do. Or just go crazy and get some Stax.

Bones said:

where do I go from here?

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You don't go anywhere that isn't going to cost you at least $400-500. Or more. Just FYI. But your next step is either going to be something with ridiculously large cups/drivers, or else planars.

--Patrick

hell i dont even know what im looking for, but im chasing the dragon for a more immersive sound. I am mostly using headphones for watching stuff, as much as I love music, its not the focus of my tech. I am using VR to watch video and im just wanting more from what im getting. im not unhappy, I just wondered if I could easily get more bang for my buck by another step up the ladder, or maybe I was missing something. from what you two have said, looks like im priced out of the next step up the tech ladder.

Bones said:

I just wondered if I could easily get more bang for my buck by another step up the ladder, or maybe I was missing something.

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Really all you're missing is wider frequency response, dynamics, transients, and audio fidelity, but you will still be limited to 2ch audio. It is not really going to expand your VR soundfield because all the positional cues are still being funneled down to L and R, your audio will just sound better. Will you notice a difference? Most definitely. The M50's may be great at 15Hz-28kHz and 99dB sensitivity, but something like an Audeze LCD-4z can reproduce 5Hz-50kHz at over 130dB sensitivity (and with faster transient response), the question is mainly about whether that increased fidelity is worth spending US$4000 on a set of headphones, ...especially since if the audio hardware in your rig is some bare minimum 20-20k onboard sound chip, all the headphones would do would be to show you how lousy your onboard sound is. It'd be like using a 4K monitor to watch 720p content.

--Patrick

im not using onboard sound, but yeah i hear ya, ok i feel better, and ill no longer wonder if there a better solution(within my budget) I could upgrade too

Bones said:

im not using onboard sound, but yeah i hear ya, ok i feel better, and ill no longer wonder if there a better solution(within my budget) I could upgrade too

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Well, a complete 8.1 surround sound system

Bubble181 said:

Well, a complete 8.1 surround sound system

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I already have one of those, but i live with other human beings who like to sleep when I cannot, so yeah no, just being polite.

Bones said:

I already have one of those, but i live with other human beings who like to sleep when I cannot, so yeah no, just being polite.

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Psh, other human beings, see, that's where you're going wrong

Sennheiser sells its consumer audio business to hearing aid specialist Sonova

Will continue to operate under Sennheiser name, no idea yet what this will mean for the products in both companies' catalogs.

--Patrick

my god ive fallen down the rabbit hole!
I built a minor Schiit stack, and it has been amazing and life changing sound!
:3

Your first exposure to actual "good" audio (i.e., going beyond the usual 50Hz-20kHz) is always ear-opening, isn't it?

--Patrick

I am loving my current headset, I'll have to look up what it is later

I'm really questioning if I can live without the 4 point eq that can be inserted into the stack >_>

Bones said:

I'm really questioning if I can live without the 4 point eq that can be inserted into the stack >_>

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Could I interest you in a $3300 Digital Signal Processor with literally infinite point parametric EQ for up to 16 balanced inputs and 8 balanced outputs, with full USB support?

GasBandit said:

Could I interest you in a $3300 Digital Signal Processor with literally infinite point parametric EQ for up to 16 balanced inputs and 8 balanced outputs, with full USB support?

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Yes...but no...

I've been looking with no luck. Anyone have any leads on a primer or guide to a first time user of an equalizer? I understand it controls different frequencies but I'd love to learn how to tune them beyond the fiddle fiddle till you get it right.

As a listener, you will mainly use an equalizer for two things:
-To tailor the sound you are listening to more to your personal preferences.
-To compensate for any deficiencies of your listening equipment.

If it’s for the first reason, then no big deal. Just buy an EQ and tweak to your hearts desire.
But If it’s for the second reason, then you are going to need more equipment. Because you can’t compensate for deficiencies without first determining what those deficiencies are.

—Patrick

Bones said:

I've been looking with no luck. Anyone have any leads on a primer or guide to a first time user of an equalizer? I understand it controls different frequencies but I'd love to learn how to tune them beyond the fiddle fiddle till you get it right.

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Absolutely. I do this for a living.

Here's the basic idea -

Play pink noise (PINK not white) and then tune the frequency spectrum as flat as you can. That's it. Proper tuning of a speaker (or headphone) is to equalize the frequency response from as low as possible to as high as possible (though you don't need to worry about anything above 20khz).

I'm not sure how well this will work for headphones, but you can try - I use an app called "sound analyzer" on my phone to get a frequency spectrum analyzer. Using it will look something like this:



Your goal is to get the curve of these bars as flat as possible - doesn't matter how loud or soft, you want pink noise to be a straight line across all these bars. If your equalizer lets you select frequency and bandwidth, so much the better. That will let you hand pick the frequencies that are sticking up or down too high on the graph, and tune them up or down.

Gas’s instructions would be that second option I mention.

—Patrick

THE STACK GROWS!!!!

edit: thanks @Tinwhistler, and dont worry this is posted from imgur, so no forum drive space being used up

Bones said:

HOW I MAKE IMAGE SMALL!?

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After pasting in the body of the post, you can grab the handle at the lower right hand corner of the image and resize. This won't change the file size, but will change how it displays in the post body.

Alternately, you can do what I do for large images from my phone and such--paste them into Paint and resize them to something around 1024x768. Dave's mentioned in the past the shrinking drive space for the forum.

Tinwhistler said:

After pasting in the body of the post, you can grab the handle at the lower right hand corner of the image and resize. This won't change the file size, but will change how it displays in the post body.

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Shit, even *I* didn't know that!

Bones said:

THE STACK GROWS!!!!

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Ooo, a wild 4-band EQ appears!

Tinwhistler said:

paste them into Paint and resize them to something around 1024x768.

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The Imagemagick (or whatever) board plug-in is set to reduce all posted images so that their longest dimension cannot be more than 1000px in either direction. If you try to post a 1024x768 image, it will automatically be resized to 1000x750. So if you want to preserve an image’s quality, crop the important part to be <= 1000px in height/width/both.

—Patrick

PatrThom said:

Ooo, a wild 4-band EQ appears!

The Imagemagick (or whatever) board plug-in is set to reduce all posted images so that their longest dimension cannot be more than 1000px in either direction. If you try to post a 1024x768 image, it will automatically be resized to 1000x750. So if you want to preserve an image’s quality, crop the important part to be <= 1000px in height/width/both.

—Patrick

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I havent tested lately, but I do remember at one time, if I posted huge images, they'd scale down in the post body, but if you clicked them, they'd be original size in the lightbox.
Edit: test: 3024x4032 image

Well, I'll be damned...it works. I can now stop that one step.

Aaand resized to 1000x750.
I know why the board does it, but there are times I wish you could toggle it.

--Patrick

Tinwhistler said:

Dave's mentioned in the past the shrinking drive space for the forum.

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This is no longer an issue. Well, unless Gas does another image and video heavy Halforums House in the Sims, which is what caused the issue.

Dave said:

This is no longer an issue. Well, unless Gas does another image and video heavy Halforums House in the Sims, which is what caused the issue.

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Wellll more like took it from 80% to 90% capacity

But yeah, kinda a fair cop.

GasBandit said:

Wellll more like took it from 80% to 90% capacity

But yeah, kinda a fair cop.

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And another 20% is your birthday thread?

so kind of trying to decided on new cans, im torn between Sennheiser 800s or hifiman arya... both are highly recommended and I am at the "buy once, cry once" stage of upgrading my cans. I am currently debating the need for going to heavier duty gear on the desk just because of how hot these little guys run. I know nothing so I turn to you guys for advice on my plans in this new hobby.

Alas, I do not know anything about hifiman, and while I have heard of Sennheiser (and generally heard good things) I haven't experienced them for myself. I'm mostly an Audio-Technica guy.

shockingly pound for pound Gas the M50X is considered the overall best closed back headphone by multiple sites. there is talk of the M70X being technically better but being to "sterile".

Bones said:

shockingly pound for pound Gas the M50X is considered the overall best closed back headphone by multiple sites. there is talk of the M70X being technically better but being to "sterile".

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Right now I'm using a pair of A30X, which is fairly decent. But I really miss my ATH-A700. Those were the cans that reminded me that sound quality could make me weep and were really, really comfortable because they used spring-loaded headpads instead of a regular headband type arch. Pity they're long discontinued, so they can't be had for reasonable cost anymore.

While I can't speak for the hifiman, I have worn Sennheiser 800s before and they were great. I'm no real audiophile, but all Sennheiser headphones and sound systems I've used have been good to great.

Argh at work unable to type long headphone post

—Patrick

PatrThom said:

Argh at work unable to type long headphone post

—Patrick

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I'll be home eventually tonight if you have time to discuss with me pat. You all have been so kind and understanding with me as I learn more. Your and gas's advice on the eq has meant i keep getting closer and closer to the sound I want.

The real question is, which Moondrop waifu is your favorite?

But seriously, if you haven't made a decision yet, maybe check this out.

drifter said:

The real question is, which Moondrop waifu is your favorite?

But seriously, if you haven't made a decision yet, maybe check this out.

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got a set of HIFIMAN ARYA's super nice, super happy, no regrets!

and then Bones went off the deep end and bought a big boy head amp.....

they call it the Jotunheim 2

Just look at the size of that knob!

--Patrick

Please don't go as far down the audiophile road as this person,

If you listen your music with hearphones then DAC is irrelevant given audio quality is low.

I don't know what Apple marketing is telling (I'm a FreeBSD/Windows/linux user) but there can be no Hi-Fi quality in hearphones. It's physics.

Just as a 20cm x 20cm x 20cm cube cannot reproduce music as well a full stand speaker.

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That's from a comment on the Steam Deck subreddit, asking if the built-in audio on the Steam Deck will be decent, if it can drive high impedance headphones, and what Bluetooth codecs are supported.

"It's physics" says the guy listening to audio with an eardrum not even 5mm in diameter. The fool, the absolute fool! You can't truly appreciate audio until you've had your eardrums surgically removed and replaced with external macrophones.

And spare me the arguments about how headphones are "technically not stereo". Yeah, I get it, sound mixed for stereo speakers won't sound the same coming through headphones. This is talking about game audio though, and that can be mixed specifically for headphones, and I imagine that a lot of modern musicians mix their audio with the expectation of headphones anyway.

figmentPez said:

"It's physics" says the guy listening to audio with an eardrum not even 5mm in diameter.

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r/murderedbywords would love to have this, I'm sure.

Yes, some of the magic of a live performance is the physics of the sounds' action upon the listener's skeleton, sinuses, lungs, and organs, as well as the environment, but you're never going to reproduce that experience with hearphones [sic], no matter HOW much you spend.

Also, why the Apple callout, other than to immediately follow it with the "I'll use anything, so long as it isn't Apple <scoff>" brag? Apple changed the audio hardware to be able to supply more voltage. Higher-end headphones will no longer be so quiet when connected directly to the built-in audio as they were before. That's it. That's the big change. Woo.

--Patrick

jeeze, im just over here looking at new headphones and equipment lol....

You already have new headphones and equipment at home!

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

You already have new headphones and equipment at home!

--Patrick

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need a set of good In-Ear-Monitors and a new DAC...

I'm helping a buddy make computer build decisions (against my recommendations, I might add) and he sent me this, which I reproduce here:



I had never heard the term before.

--Patrick

I am offended that you would think I'm a slave to anything other than my unquenchable thirst for audio nirvana! :3

Bones said:

need a set of good In-Ear-Monitors and a new DAC...

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DAC is on order, and should arrive in 6-8 weeks but I cant get a straight answer on the IEMS lol

Bones said:

I cant get a straight answer on the IEMS lol

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One goes in your ear, one in your mouth, and the last one goes in your butt.

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

One goes in your ear, one in your mouth, and the last one goes in your butt.

--Patrick

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No, wait.. THIS one goes in your ear, and...

@Bones




—Patrick

ordered a fancy set of earbud/iems, I am a dumb sob lol. I will now be ordering cables and tips and waiting with baited breath lol

Bones said:

ordered a fancy set of earbud/iems, I am a dumb sob lol. I will now be ordering cables and tips and waiting with baited breath lol

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HI, this is future bones, and boy howdy, these things are a hell of a drug....

Why do they look like they're made out of ... steak?

--Patrick

Yeah Pat, I dont know what the story is with the paint job, I think they were going for a leather grain look, but yeah its kind of fugly.

It's what the inside of your hearing canal will look like with the SEARING HOT quality of the sound.

There's definitely a decent pun in there somewhere but my brain no work good so, ehhh.

These are rare finds. Or, maybe, medium rare

The better cable is lost in usps limbo atm and it makes me sad. Also don't love not being able to hear myself, but that's a fair trade off for the vacuum like seal these things have with the upgraded tips I bought. In other news I'm also considering upgrading my speaker set up for the computer but don't know how much better I'm going to go than a bose companion 5 system unless I go to an amp and unpowered speakers which is a slippery slope I don't much care to attack.

Once you start talking speakers, you also have to start caring about the acoustic properties of your room, and if you thought your money was flying out the window before, well…

—Patric

Just as an FYI, when you're standing there ready to throw out the $2000 speakers to replace them with a $3000 system, there are some of us who'll gladly take your leftovers :-P

having spent some time now with my new IEM's I can sum my thoughts up as, "The best 1000 dollar earbuds that no one will ever own." there is a 2 month wait on these, but I have yet to met another enthusiast rocking a set, being split between "MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE, but for specific genre" and "much less, BUT EH GOOD ENOUGH!" These are by far and away the best overall set I have ever used, having owned less expensive and tried more expensive units at the local shop.

The other defining factor seems to be tied to the equipment, I have not tried these without some serious muscle driving them, and at this point im almost to afraid to. IEM's in general do not require a kickass amp to drive them, but most IEM's dont pack as much into their casings as the the high end units do. I refuse to own a set for every specific thing I'm going to listen to, and I can see the appeal of ultra high-end tuned sets for users who only listen to x or for x purposes, thats not me, I want the best overall unit, that can handle whatever is thrown at it.

now I wait for my YGGY OG DAC to ship and then I rest on my laurels for awhile, having effectively climbed to the peak of audio nirvana and go forth to spread my wisdom with the neophytes starting their climb like I did all those months ago.

there would be no "bones, the audio enthusiast" without all of your kindness, but I have to give @PatrThom the big shoutout for being the guy who night after night nurtured my interest on discord, suggesting all kinds of cool music to listen to, and giving me advice and guiding me from the abyss of chasing "perfect sound".

Mistakes were made and now the earth shakes when I call on the blessing of the audio gods...

Bones said:

Mistakes were made and now the earth shakes when I call on the blessing of the audio gods...

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--Patrick

and nearing the summit, Bones found the world tree Yggdrasil, and he learn much as he slumbered peacefully under its boughs...

(Modi Multibit, their base entry to this line on top for scale and my previous DAC)

Bones wants to be this guy when he grows up.



Actually, I lie. Bones just wants live in this guy's house when he grows up. And he'll lock the door, sink into that chair, and see how long he can go before the dude's heirs finally finish breaking down the door and have him escorted from the premises.

--Patrick

Acquired the newest schiit, a Mjolnir 3 class A power amp. It's God damn black magic. I'll be back when I can peel myself away.

Its the nondescript guy on the top right. I am also now rocking so much endgame gear. Having completed my journey to the summit of the "mountain". Running the chain of PC to Schiit Yggdrasil OG+ DAC(bottom left) to Loki Max EQ(bottom right) splits balanced xlr to the Mjolnir 3 and rca to the Valhalla 2 tube amp. Running rare Russian icbm tubes for power and gold lion tubes for signal. It's been a hell of a ride. Thanks to everyone who took the time to advise me on my way here.

For the curious:

Yggdrasil+ OG ($2700)
Loki Max EQ ($1500)
Mjolnir 3 ($1200)
Valhalla 2 ($400)
Russian "National" 6L6B ($50ea...IF you can find them - $250ea at time of purchase because Ukraine)
Genalex "Gold Lion" 12AX7 ($70ea)
HiFiMan Arya Planar Magnetic Headphones ($1600 - just visible on L edge of image)

Not mentioned/pictured:
Yamaha HS8 Studio Monitor Speakers ($400ea)
Yamaha HS8S Subwoofer ($500)
Swagtastic custom-braided Headphone cables ($90)

--Patrick

pat outs me for having more money than sense, but im supremely happy.