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Brookfield Square Shooting

#1

jwhouk

jwhouk

At about 11 AM local time this morning, a man apparently walked into Azana Spa, located across from Brookfield Square Mall in Waukesha, Wisconsin, and started shooting.

Details, as I type this, are rather sketchy, but apparently the man was part of a messy divorce with one of the employees at the spa. Reports state that there are at least four people wounded, and there may be more headed for the nearest hospital - Froedert Medical Center, located a few miles East in Milwaukee County.

The Mall was locked down, and many of the stores have closed for the day. Law enforcement have shut down the eastern part of the mall parking lot, which faces the spa (and the McDonald's located just to the north, on Moorland Road).


#2

jwhouk

jwhouk

Additional information: The SWAT team and ATF agents doing a sweep through the salon apparently found an IED in the building where the spa is located.

The suspect is still at large. His home in Brown Deer (which is north and east of the Mall) has been surrounded and his neighbors have been told to remain out of the area.


#3

jwhouk

jwhouk

Latest update says seven people were shot. Four people are at Froedert. Other three... deceased.


#4

jwhouk

jwhouk

Latest update - shooter (Radcliffe Franklin Haughton) found dead inside the spa.


#5

jwhouk

jwhouk

So. Did I put this thing in the wrong forum subsection or something?


#6

Espy

Espy

Nah, slow day around here I think. I just saw this on our local news website. Good lord, it sounds just awful. I haven't heard all the details but... man. Not good :(


#7

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

jwhouk said:
So. Did I put this thing in the wrong forum subsection or something?
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No, I appreciate the updates, I just have no words. It's tragic.


#8

Hylian

Hylian

I was going to respond with the standard "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" but I think this picture works better



#9

jwhouk

jwhouk

Latest is that he apparently (stop me if you were expecting this) shot and killed his wife, who was working in the salon.

His step-daughter also worked in the salon, and apparently was the one who ran screaming out onto Moorland Road asking for assistance.

They haven't released the identities of the two other women who were found dead on the scene, but I suspect they were co-workers.

Nothing on the four at Froedert, other than one has non-life-threatening injuries.


#10

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Mass shootings in America aren't really shocking, and any national conversation (or conversation here for that matter) on gun control isn't really going to go anywhere.


#11

Gared

Gared

Latest update (from FoxNews.com) is that the identities of the dead have been released, and one of the four victims hospitalized has been released, while the other three are in satisfactory condition. And, while I agree with Charlie that any national conversation on gun control isn't going to go anywhere; perhaps nationally we should discuss and/or actually do something about how long it takes for records of orders for people to turn their existing guns in to the courts are input into the various databases, since this guy was able to buy a new handgun 2 days after being ordered to surrender his existing firearms under the terms of a restraining order.

We really need, as a nation, to update all of our public records to the digital domain, with paper backups in secure vaults. I know it's expensive. I know we're in a recession. I know that government spending is evil. But if the handgun that this guy used was bought legally, at a store licensed to sell guns, then if everything was actually available electronically, that store would have been able to see that this guy wasn't allowed to own guns. As it is, I wouldn't be surprised if the records weren't still in limbo somewhere, and the guy weren't still able to walk into a shop and buy a gun today (aside from that whole being dead issue).


#12

jwhouk

jwhouk

I'll be honest, I don't know who screwed up here. It was a perfect storm of things happening. What made it surreal was that no one knew where the guy was, and they found that CNG tank in the spa and believed it to be an IED.

For those of you not familiar with the area, Brookfield is a very affluent suburb of Waukesha and Milwaukee. Lot of high price homes, and a lot of businesses and corporate HQ in the area.


#13

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Tragic, just tragic. When a mind snaps, it snaps hard.


#14

Gared

Gared

Yeah, my comment may have come across a little too blamey for what I was really intending. This really was a perfect storm lining up against the first responders; and I really doubt that the store that sold the guy the handgun had any way of knowing that he wasn't allowed to own one. Sometimes, no matter what you do to try to make a system leak-proof, something's going to come up that you hadn't envisioned and is going to leak through the cracks, and there's just little to nothing you can do about it.


#15

@Li3n

@Li3n

Ah, but i see no one is asking the real question... how many parents was he raised by? :hide:


#16

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

If he got the gun 2 days after a restraining order, he likely passed the background check at least a week before the restraining order. He just likely played the system.


#17

jwhouk

jwhouk

The timeline that's been drawn up seems to indicate that he never surrendered his guns in the first place.


#18

Bubble181

Bubble181

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Mass shootings in America aren't really shocking, and any national conversation (or conversation here for that matter) on gun control isn't really going to go anywhere.
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This, though. It's obviously still incredibly tragic and everything, but a mass shooting only gets my attention these days if it's a) abnormally large, b) in an unsuspected region (What? A mass shooting in Finland?!), c) involves a specific target demographic (A few years ago we had a guy in Belgium shooting up two daycare centers, what did those toddlers ever do to you?) or d) specific other reason to hype it up.

I'm sorry to say that a shooting with "just" 7 dead, in a clearly non-terrorist attack, in a regular bussiness, hardly qualifies as news anymore. Like a car crash with 1 or 2 dead, it's become too mundane and happens too often to still be as amazed/shocked/appalled at this as I used to be. No offense meant to anyone and it's obviously still horrible for anyone involved or affected.

I'm currently following other news from closer by...Ford just announced closing a factory costing 10,000 people (minimum) their jobs, after agreeing to keep the plant open for 4 more years last month, pretty close by here.


#19

strawman

strawman

The gun used in the shooting was purchased from private citizen the day before the shooting. No database or law would have prevented him from obtaining the weapon:

But he bought the .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun used in the attack from a private owner on Saturday, according to police in Brown Deer, the Milwaukee suburb where Haughton lived. The seller did nothing illegal, however, because Wisconsin law only requires background checks and a 48-hour waiting period from gun dealers, not from private individuals.(source)
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#20

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

stienman said:
No database or law :
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No database or law currently on the books, that is.


#21

Covar

Covar

Charlie Don't Surf said:
No database or law currently on the books, that is.
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We need more blanket laws!


#22

GasBandit

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
No database or law currently on the books, that is.
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Or conceivable one that didn't involve a repeal of the 2nd amendment.


#23

strawman

strawman

Meh. We'll just require that all guns be internet connected with two cameras and a GPS. Every shot fired takes a picture of the shooter and the target, the GPS location, and sends it all to a federal database. The information is also laser etched on the bullet as it passes down the barrel, and stored onboard the gun's permanent memory.


#24

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

or make bullets worth $5,000.


#25

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

sixpackshaker said:
or make bullets worth $5,000.
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Thus creating an giant black market for home made ammunition... ;)


#26

@Li3n

@Li3n

Azurephoenix said:
Thus creating an giant black market for home made ammunition... ;)
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Why do you think sixpackshaker bought all that lead for?


#27

Espy

Espy

Charlie Don't Surf said:
No database or law currently on the books, that is.
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What law on earth could have stopped someone from selling their gun to another person in private???:confused:


#28

Gared

Gared

Y'know, I was gonna put a snarky comment here; but I just don't have the energy today. So instead; blah blah DUI blah blah drunk driving blah blah.


#29

Tress

Tress

Should we have a law that prohibits a private citizen selling a gun to another private citizen? Should they be required to go through a broker who can run a background check? Would those suggestions infringe on 2nd amendment rights?


#30

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Tress said:
Should we have a law that prohibits a private citizen selling a gun to another private citizen? Should they be required to go through a broker who can run a background check? Would those suggestions infringe on 2nd amendment rights?
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let me tell you how much I give a fuck about anyone's second amendment rights


#31

GasBandit

GasBandit

Tress said:
Should we have a law that prohibits a private citizen selling a gun to another private citizen? Should they be required to go through a broker who can run a background check? Would those suggestions infringe on 2nd amendment rights?
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My personal opinion is that it would do so, but I believe there are some states that already prohibit firearm sales between citizens unless one of them has a dealer's permit.

Edit - ok, I'm not quite right. A licensed dealer only has to become involved if the buyer and seller are in two different states.[DOUBLEPOST=1351115359][/DOUBLEPOST]
Charlie Don't Surf said:
let me tell you how much I give a fuck about anyone's second amendment rights the Constitution
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Ladies and gentlemen, the modern left.


#32

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

GasBandit said:
Ladies and gentlemen, the modern left.
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not really, I'm an actual extremist. The "extreme Left" in America would still probably never touch the 2nd amendment.


#33

Gared

Gared

Charlie Don't Surf said:
let me tell you how much I give a fuck about anyone's second amendment rights
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Just so long as someone doesn't denigrate women while they're stripping those rights, amirite?


#34

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Gared said:
Just so long as someone doesn't denigrate women while they're stripping those rights, amirite?
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I have no idea what this means, but yes, I support the equality for all people way way above the right to kill people really fast.


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