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Bullying to Death. What's the deal?

Oct 9, 2010#1

Shawn

It seems like there is this reported increase in teen suicides related to school bullying.
1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead by own hand - Yahoo! News
As sad and unfortunate as this is, It's interesting to me because I can't imagine that bullying in the 21st century has gotten "worse" than what I had to deal with.
I was bullied quite a bit. Sure I contimplated suicide, but I don't remember EVER getting even close to actually doing it. And knowing for a fact I wasn't the only one getting bullied at the time I ask... what's different?

Technology seems the most likely culprit. Cyber bullying seems like it could be a much more intense form of bullying because it's litterally the one you can't seem to run from. But is this form of high tech bullying any worse than what we had to deal with in person? I mean even profile sites like Facebook give you complete control over what appears on your page. And if that becomes a problem you can always stay anonymous.

I think another issue is that this technology has given kids the illusion of clean slates. They think that the internet has no negative opinion of them. And they find themselves shocked to find out they can't escape reality even for a little bit.

And, the most sad reason of them all, they simply may believe themselves to be some kind of Martyrs. Able to leave video journals and blogs that the world can bare witness to and somehow feel their pain along with them and mourn their loss. Perhaps in some way they feel this is a victory against the bullies.

But in the end, it's bullying. Kids do it. Schools can't stop it. It's going to happen and regardless of where technology goes it's going to follow. Eventually people grow up and the majority of these bullies realize that even they were acting like assholes. Heck. I've already gotten a couple of honest apologies from folks via facebook for how they treated me in highschool. My reply to them? "All is forgiven. We all have regrets on how we acted when we weren't mature enough to act any different. Let's grab a beer some day and laugh about it."

Oct 9, 2010#2

Hailey Knight

There's bullying and then there's sadism. You can't tell the difference at that age unless you're paying attention, which we adults never seem to do, but the difference later is that the typical bullies do as you said, grow up and feel bad about it, and the sadistic ones don't.

I'm not saying each of these kids was the victim of some other kid consciously attempting to destroy them, but I've seen the sadistic ones. Typical bully punches the kid, the other kind tries to light him on fire. I knew a kid who tried to bomb another kid's house. Most bullies are just troubled themselves, but every now and then, there's a psychopath in the making.

Oct 9, 2010#3

Shawn

But I don't think that these kids are the targets of the sadistic bullies. Most of them were targets for having an accent or wearing pink in school. One of the primary things I was teased for in school was my ears sticking out. Kids find any reason at all to bully someone. Some may seem harsher than others.
I don't see any evidence that these kids in particular were any different.

Oct 9, 2010#4

Hailey Knight

If there's some prejudice at work, I don't think a person without such is going to understand what that experience is like.

Obviously I don't think suicide is the answer, but I can't pretend to know what it's like going through school being gay.

Oct 9, 2010#5

Shawn

True enough. I'm sure going through school, being openly gay, must be one of the most difficult trials a kid would have to go through. He's either accepted or he's not. And if he's not then he is a target with a spotlight on him.

Oct 9, 2010#6

D

Dubyamn

I honestly don't believe that schools can't stop the bullying. They don't bother because the fight is a hard and long but if they took a hard line against the bullying they could stomp it out. But no they continue to take a zero tolerance approach to problems such as drill "guns" in a car parked off school grounds while kids continue to kill themselves.

I hope these deaths will lead to an approach to the bullying problem that isn't slapping kids on the wrist and then not protecting the victims.

Oct 9, 2010#7

Shawn

I think that schools can, to some degree, discourage bullying. But they will never be able to stop it completely. It's a human trait to want to feel superior to someone. While many bullies may have troubled homes, or aspects of their lives that have lead them to down the path, this is not the case for all of them. I knew several bullies who came from good homes, and were nothing more than slaves of social peer pressure and the thrill of getting a laugh at the expense of another. And as many child psychologists will tell you, you can't use the same technique on every child.
I took bullies into the principals' office all the time. Sometimes the bully received detention. In rare cased he was expelled. What was the result? A more intense hatred of me and desire to gain the upper hand.
The only way to fight a bully is to not let it show that they bother you. It's the only way. Bullies NEED that reaction out of you to justify what they do. Even if that reaction is for you to tell someone. They want to know they are hurting you. And guaranteed, somewhere out there, a bully is nodding his head in silent satisfaction over his target's suicide.

Oct 9, 2010#8

Krisken

That first story made me seriously angry. The school had been informed of the problem, promised to get involved, and did nothing. Pure negligence. The girls who went up to the casket and laughed about it are monstrous.

Oct 9, 2010#9

AshburnerX

Shawnacy said:
The only way to fight a bully is to not let it show that they bother you. It's the only way. Bullies NEED that reaction out of you to justify what they do. Even if that reaction is for you to tell someone. They want to know they are hurting you. And guaranteed, somewhere out there, a bully is nodding his head in silent satisfaction over his target's suicide.

Oct 9, 2010#10

Ravenpoe

Some of the comments to that news story are absolutely horrible.

Boys should not like to wear pink, therefore, begging to get teased. Their parents should have learned the word, "NO". Anyone who takes their own life is always a selfish dud. Stop trying to find blame. Gays and outcasts should feel the pressure to change for the positive. Peer pressure is what helps us to conform to a standard of living. Americans are wound so tight, make sure everyone plays nice. I say, survival of the fittest. These 4 were not the fittest. People die everyday, get over it.

Oct 9, 2010#11

phil

One thing parents need to teach their kids is that they should always be open about how they feel about these things. There's only so much blame that can be put on others when the kids themselves don't let people know the full extent of their feelings on these things. It seems like in the first girl's case she was vocal about it but in some others, not so much.

It's easy to think that things don't get better when you're 15. High school seemed like the worst 4 years of my life. The only thing that kept me going was the thought that "if this is the worst thing that happens to me I'm doing alright". I was lucky that I wasn't bullied too much. I don't know if I would have been able to take massive amounts of it.

I think the Internet does have something to do with it. It's easier to feel that annonimity even with something like Facebook because you're not physically there. Add to that, most of these kids probably have half the school on their friends list. So if someone were to write something on their wall, everyone who they have in common would see it on their news. Even if you delete it, enough people probably saw it. So what can you do? Block them and give them the satisfaction of getting to you? How many times here have people talked about blocking a forum member is the cowards way out? It's a shit situation honestly. Imagine having to physically deal with some of our online personalities.

Still though, I wish these kids would talk to college students more. I don't think I'd have felt so shitty in high school if I had just -known- that college was a blast. It's part of what is helping me through my current slump. I know that life sucks now because I'm living at home and can't find a job. I know that things will get better though.

Oct 9, 2010#12

North_Ranger

AshburnerX;443560][QUOTE=Shawnacy said:
The only way to fight a bully is to not let it show that they bother you. It's the only way. Bullies NEED that reaction out of you to justify what they do. Even if that reaction is for you to tell someone. They want to know they are hurting you. And guaranteed, somewhere out there, a bully is nodding his head in silent satisfaction over his target's suicide.

This is actually one of the worst things you can do. By letting them run rough shod over you, you are showing them that you ARE a victim and you WILL take it for as long as they please. It's essentially making you a walking target, because they will only see that messing with you doesn't get them in trouble. They may not get attention from you, but they still get stress relief and your life is still miserable. It's better to fight back and LOSE than it is to do nothing, and this is coming from personal experience. [/QUOTE]

Seconded and supported as a person who went through systematic bullying all the way to graduation. For me it got to the point where on an orienteering class in PE one of the guys wrestled me down and tried to choke me with a foot lock á la Golden Eye. I swear, I feared he was going to kill me, he just sat there as I choked for breath, staring at me with blank eyes. For me that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I told, and the teacher called all the boys together, telling them he would not tolerate this. I was on seventh grade back then, and it was the first time a teacher actually stood up for me instead of just sending a note home and the principal trying to make the whole thing disappear. It was then I learned a terrifying truth: as we had moved to a bigger school in the town center after the sixth grade, some of the guys in my class had made friends with other boys by telling them I was free game. That no one would defend me if they decided to have a go at me: a chubby, artistic kid with glasses who got good grades.

I tell you, that's a terrifying thing to hear: that people you trusted, people you had known since kindergarten were so willing to sell you out to get to the 'in' crowd. Just because they're small and don't shave, doesn't mean that they can't be as cruel and vicious as any sadist.

Oct 10, 2010#13

sixpackshaker

I would like to see the removal of Zero Tolerance to Violence in our schools. The bullied kid can not fight back, and if they do they will be in JAIL with the kid that is picking on him. Or a kid like my self would have had a rap-sheet a mile long. When ever I saw a bully pushing around a smaller kid, I would go push the bully around. So if my "White Knight Ass" was in school today I would face JAIL for defending a weaker kid.

Oct 10, 2010#14

Tress

It's hard for teachers. We can't catch everything. So much of the bullying takes place outside of the classroom (at least in my experience thus far). Students are reluctant to talk about it. Sometimes, students are doing it right under our noses by disguising their bullying as lighthearted teasing or something, which can be hard for an outsider to pick up.

The one time I thought I had a student being bullied and felt certain enough to say something, the student asked me not to intervene. He swore to me that they were just playing around, that they didn't mean any of it, I didn't need to get involved, etc. I felt terrible (and still do) because I felt powerless; I couldn't be sure one way or the other. If I was wrong I could make it worse. All I could do was keep an eye out, and nothing every came of it again.

I wish I could do more. It's one of my big concerns in the classroom, but so often I feel handcuffed. Sometimes even the students themselves are the ones putting the handcuffs on me.

Oct 10, 2010#15

Hailey Knight

If you go to the kid to be the adult defender, you're singling the kid out to be hated. That's why they're reluctant to tell you or other teachers about it, and always insist they're just playing.

Oct 11, 2010#16

Tress

escushion said:
If you go to the kid to be the adult defender, you're singling the kid out to be hated. That's why they're reluctant to tell you or other teachers about it, and always insist they're just playing.

I know. So what's the solution? What should teachers do instead?

Oct 11, 2010#17

Chazwozel

I delt with bullies pretty easily from gradeschool through high school. Bullies are pussies. They find weaker kids to pick on. Pop them a good one in the nose and see if they ever bother you again? Damn the consequences. My one ear sticks out, and I was teased mercilessly by a couple of bullies in 5th grade. My dad had enough and told me to stand up for myself. I did. I punched one of the fuckers square in the gums. I got 3 days suspension for it, but it was goddamn worth it. If I bully learns you won't put up with his shit and you can expose his weakness, they head for the hills.

Sadly, with bullies it always has to resort to violence. They can't be reasoned with or rationalized. The only way to have it stop is to humiliate them right back.

---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 AM ----------

sixpackshaker said:
I would like to see the removal of Zero Tolerance to Violence in our schools. The bullied kid can not fight back, and if they do they will be in JAIL with the kid that is picking on him. Or a kid like my self would have had a rap-sheet a mile long. When ever I saw a bully pushing around a smaller kid, I would go push the bully around. So if my "White Knight Ass" was in school today I would face JAIL for defending a weaker kid.

The fines and suspensions are worth it. My friend in high school was constantly bullied by this one goomba, motherfucker. One day in shop the bully burned my friend's arm with liquid bronze. That's all it took. Geoff snapped. He leaped onto the goomba and wailed on him with a wrench. He was suspended for like a week, but that bully never fucked with him again. Same guy tried to fuck with me once. By this point I assumed people knew not to fuck with me, but I belted him in the gut once to get the point across. I don't think he ever spoke to me again.

Oct 11, 2010#18

Hailey Knight

One day in shop the bully burned my friend's arm with liquid bronze.

There's one of the sick ones I mentioned.

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 AM ----------

Tress;443751][QUOTE=escushion said:
If you go to the kid to be the adult defender, you're singling the kid out to be hated. That's why they're reluctant to tell you or other teachers about it, and always insist they're just playing.

I know. So what's the solution? What should teachers do instead?[/QUOTE]

I don't know. You can't coddle the bully so he gets shit from the other students, because he'll just take it out on his chosen victim. Really, Chaz has the point. The kid has to show that they themselves won't put up with it, damn the consequences.

Although now that some of the harassment has moved to cyber-bullying, my advice to a kid would be to get off Facebook and go outside.

Oct 16, 2010#19

Chazwozel

North_Ranger;443617][QUOTE=AshburnerX;443560][QUOTE=Shawnacy said:
The only way to fight a bully is to not let it show that they bother you. It's the only way. Bullies NEED that reaction out of you to justify what they do. Even if that reaction is for you to tell someone. They want to know they are hurting you. And guaranteed, somewhere out there, a bully is nodding his head in silent satisfaction over his target's suicide.

Oct 16, 2010#20

North_Ranger

Chazwozel said:
I bet you would have saved yourself a whole shit ton of mental scarring if you learned to stand up for yourself and pop a few black eyes. After being choked like that, the attacker is the free game, not you! You know what you do, kick him square in the fucking teeth.

Hindsight's always 20/20, ain't it?

Oct 16, 2010#21

SpecialKO

Pretty much agreed with Chaz. Bullies don't stop until you fight back. Kid used to bully me in middle school, lots of trash talk, lots of shoving, ignored it, didn't work.

One day, he stole my stuff. So this time I ran after, tripped him, and slammed him into the wall hard enough to rattle his teeth. He never picked on me again.

Now, I do think you have to differentiate between the kids who "tease" and the kids who "bully". The teasers are you ones who say things when you walk by, but never persist, and you really should just ignore them, because they don't have any actual interest in you, they're just doing the high school thing of trash-talking easy targets in aggro radius, and enjoying the reactions.

The bullies are the ones who persist, and get in your face. They're the ones who often get physical, and like it's been said, you can't ignore the bullies, because it's not just the reactions they want, it's the feeling they get when they do that act.

Oct 16, 2010#22

Jay

Got bullied some early in high school. At first I didn't react and then one day in gym class I lost it and jumped the bully and punch him in the face a few times. As he lay on the ground in the fetal position and I towered over him, I begged him to get up and try to give me a hard time again and that this was going to happen again. He ran to the teacher and I got suspended for 2 days. When I came back, the roles were reversed and I made damn sure he and all his "laughing" buddies knew of it.

For the next 4 years no one fucken bothered me. Also the fact I went from being the shortest boy in school at 5'2 to the tallest 6'4 within the same school year possibly helped my cause.

If you don't stand up for yourself, you'll always be the bitch. And if you worry about losing the fight, don't. Just be a lunatic about it, THAT is what sets the mark. Because you don't want people to simply THINK of messing around with you.

PS: I tried to shove the butt of my hockey stick up that bully's ass once while screaming "he shoots he scores" simply because he decided to give a good friend of mine a hard time after I thought him a lesson. Guess what? He learned not to tell the teachers at that point and he sure as hell left my friend alone. I bet that's the exact thought that comes into his mind when he watches hockey.

Oct 16, 2010#23

Norris

sixpackshaker said:
I would like to see the removal of Zero Tolerance to Violence in our schools. The bullied kid can not fight back, and if they do they will be in JAIL with the kid that is picking on him. Or a kid like my self would have had a rap-sheet a mile long. When ever I saw a bully pushing around a smaller kid, I would go push the bully around. So if my "White Knight Ass" was in school today I would face JAIL for defending a weaker kid.

One of my high school teachers once explained the teacher view on zero tolerance policies to me (when I was bitching about them, of course): Without them, you pretty much have to have a teacher witness what happened to give accurate punishment. Anything besides that is choosing who to believe. You can not know what was said to whom before it got physical, you can not know who threw the first punch, and chances are at least one side will get their friends to lie on their behalf. So if the picked on kid throws a punch, the bully can just grab his buddies, go to his favorite teacher, and report it in a way that makes him the victim. It becomes a game who can report it first, because the no chance in hell the faculty will vocally contradict each other in front of students. Zero tolerance policies (like the one my school had) where ANYONE involved in fisticuffs gets suspended for minimum a day, whether they were seen to throw a punch or not, is the only way to prevent gaming of the system. Speaking from experience, bullies (the same ones who brand their victim a tattle tale if they go to a teacher) are MORE than willing to report the slightest infraction on the part of their victim. It is just another way to fuck them over.

Oct 16, 2010#24

North_Ranger

In all honesty I'm a tad disgusted that people are proposing violence as the only way to stop the bullying. I don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but here we were always told to try and settle our differences in other ways than knocking someone in the face. Hell, not even the bullies would go as low as punching someone in the face. In the gut, maybe, nut not the face. Here, it's considered "stooping to his level" to punch someone - and I can tell you, it would have landed yours truly in trouble if I had. It was the only way to hold a moral high ground to those assholes.

Oct 16, 2010#25

Jay

I did it the Canadian way.

Oct 16, 2010#26

SpecialKO

North_Ranger said:
I don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but here we were always told to try and settle our differences in other ways than knocking someone in the face.

Hey, I'm all for alternate solutions (verbally shaming tends to work if you can pull it off), but if they don't work, sometimes you have to be able to take a physical stand.

Hell, not even the bullies would go as low as punching someone in the face.

I think your breed of bullies is just different.

Oct 16, 2010#27

sixpackshaker

North_Ranger said:
In all honesty I'm a tad disgusted that people are proposing violence as the only way to stop the bullying. I don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but here we were always told to try and settle our differences in other ways than knocking someone in the face. Hell, not even the bullies would go as low as punching someone in the face. In the gut, maybe, nut not the face. Here, it's considered "stooping to his level" to punch someone - and I can tell you, it would have landed yours truly in trouble if I had. It was the only way to hold a moral high ground to those assholes.

The moral high ground is not getting pushed around for the rest of your days. If you go all Gandhi on a bully's ass... he will just beat and ridicule you more.

Oct 16, 2010#28

North_Ranger

SpecialKO said:
Hell, not even the bullies would go as low as punching someone in the face.

Click to expand...

I think your breed of bullies is just different.

Perhaps... But then again, my experience is dated by some 15-20 years.

Oct 16, 2010#29

Hailey Knight

North_Ranger said:
In all honesty I'm a tad disgusted that people are proposing violence as the only way to stop the bullying. I don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but here we were always told to try and settle our differences in other ways than knocking someone in the face. Hell, not even the bullies would go as low as punching someone in the face. In the gut, maybe, nut not the face. Here, it's considered "stooping to his level" to punch someone - and I can tell you, it would have landed yours truly in trouble if I had. It was the only way to hold a moral high ground to those assholes.

Didn't sound like that worked out too well for you.

Oct 17, 2010#30

Norris

sixpackshaker said:
The moral high ground is not getting pushed around for the rest of your days. If you go all Gandhi on a bully's ass... he will just beat and ridicule you more.

The rest of your days? I don't know where you live, but where I'm from petty grade school bullying went out of style by senior year. It just wasn't worth anyone's time. And in college? Hells no, why would you even begin to bother? It gets better. I'd be more worried about an incident where I went "lunatic" on someone and continued beating them even after they were effectively harmless to me. That demonstrates a lack of self control that could back at some point.

escushion said:
Didn't sound like that worked out too well for you.

Oct 17, 2010#31

AshburnerX

Norris said:
So is basically becoming the bully via losing self control the definition of "working out well"?

Stopping someone from bullying you is NOT becoming the bully, it's standing up for yourself. It's about not being a victim and letting those who make you miserable know that you are not interested in their games. You only become the bully if you continue to exert your power over them for any reason other than self defense. In other words, you only become a bully if you keep doing it after they stop.

Norris said:
Peacefully maintaining who you are as a person, remaining in control, and ultimately being the person with less maturing required is the better long run victory.

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Oct 17, 2010#32

North_Ranger

AshburnerX said:
Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...

Oct 17, 2010#33

AshburnerX

North_Ranger;445061][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Oct 17, 2010#34

Hailey Knight

Norris;445051][QUOTE=escushion said:
Didn't sound like that worked out too well for you.

I'd be more worried about an incident where I went "lunatic" on someone and continued beating them even after they were effectively harmless to me. That demonstrates a lack of self control that could back at some point.

Sounds like a personal problem you might wanna look into.

Defending yourself is a conscious choice to stop the bullying, not going apeshit when you can't take it anymore a la Ralphie from A Christmas Story, or Columbine massacre. You make a choice to stop the bullshit and if it stops, you don't continue pushing for dominance. As has been said, bullies are typically cowards. If you're no longer an easy target, they'll go find someone who is.

Oct 17, 2010#35

Chazwozel

North_Ranger said:
In all honesty I'm a tad disgusted that people are proposing violence as the only way to stop the bullying. I don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but here we were always told to try and settle our differences in other ways than knocking someone in the face. Hell, not even the bullies would go as low as punching someone in the face. In the gut, maybe, nut not the face. Here, it's considered "stooping to his level" to punch someone - and I can tell you, it would have landed yours truly in trouble if I had. It was the only way to hold a moral high ground to those assholes.

What other way is there when you're dealing with a bully? How'd settling your differences work out for you (other then being someone's bitch and getting choked)? You said that this continued through high school? Sounds like you should have put your money where your mouth is and knocked a few heads. You're always bragging about your hulking size and intimidating appearance. Why didn't you ever put it to use? Don't give me that "stooping to their level," bullshit. Yeah, you took the moral high ground...

Here you are 15-20 years later and I bet you still remember all the shit you got in high school as if it happened yesterday. I bet your tormentors barely register your face or name on the radar.

---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

Norris;445051][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:
The moral high ground is not getting pushed around for the rest of your days. If you go all Gandhi on a bully's ass... he will just beat and ridicule you more.

escushion said:
Didn't sound like that worked out too well for you.

So is basically becoming the bully via losing self control the definition of "working out well"? Peacefully maintaining who you are as a person, remaining in control, and ultimately being the person with less maturing required is the better long run victory.[/QUOTE]

No, you're not looking for self-satisfaction through someone's misery - like a bully. You're defending yourself and your right to live your life without being harassed. I don't think anyone 'snapping' and shooting up an entire school ala Columbine is the answer we're suggesting.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

North_Ranger;445061][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...[/QUOTE]

I only blame the victim if they continue to play the part of the victim. Stand up for yourself and stop being someone's bitch.

Oct 17, 2010#36

Norris

escushion said:
Sounds like a personal problem you might wanna look into.

Defending yourself is a conscious choice to stop the bullying, not going apeshit when you can't take it anymore a la Ralphie from A Christmas Story, or Columbine massacre. You make a choice to stop the bullshit and if it stops, you don't continue pushing for dominance. As has been said, bullies are typically cowards. If you're no longer an easy target, they'll go find someone who is.

Or maybe I was just going by stories posted earlier in this thread, as examples of positive behavior, where the person reacting to the was not exactly behaving that well:

Jay said:
Got bullied some early in high school. At first I didn't react and then one day in gym class I lost it and jumped the bully and punch him in the face a few times. As he lay on the ground in the fetal position and I towered over him, I begged him to get up and try to give me a hard time again and that this was going to happen again. He ran to the teacher and I got suspended for 2 days. When I came back, the roles were reversed and I made damn sure he and all his "laughing" buddies knew of it.
If you don't stand up for yourself, you'll always be the bitch. And if you worry about losing the fight, don't. Just be a lunatic about it, THAT is what sets the mark. Because you don't want people to simply THINK of messing around with you.
...
PS: I tried to shove the butt of my hockey stick up that bully's ass once while screaming "he shoots he scores" simply because he decided to give a good friend of mine a hard time after I thought him a lesson. Guess what? He learned not to tell the teachers at that point and he sure as hell left my friend alone. I bet that's the exact thought that comes into his mind when he watches hockey.

Chazwozel said:
The fines and suspensions are worth it. My friend in high school was constantly bullied by this one goomba, motherfucker. One day in shop the bully burned my friend's arm with liquid bronze. That's all it took. Geoff snapped. He leaped onto the goomba and wailed on him with a wrench. He was suspended for like a week, but that bully never fucked with him again. Same guy tried to fuck with me once. By this point I assumed people knew not to fuck with me, but I belted him in the gut once to get the point across. I don't think he ever spoke to me again.

Leaping a dude Ralphie-style, attempted sodomy (which he hopes the guy remembers painfully to this day), explicitly stating that the bully-victim roles were reversed, and Chaz's friend assaulting a dude with a deadly weapon. These don't sound like dudes taken measured action to get the bully to stop. These sound like people losing control. Between the options of just letting it roll off my back and going psycho on someone with a wrench, I'd rather go the route that will never land me an attempted murder charge.

Also, this whole "use force" idea assumes there is one or two central tormentors. When the vast majority of a student body knows you better as "Rudolph" (because your acne is centered on your nose) and utter strangers will serenade you with a jolly Christmas tune as you walk past, who do you punch to make the problem go away? Or when your entire class in elementary school plays a sick game of tag called "Walker Germs" in which you are always it and therefore no one wants to be near you, not even in class, who do you go lunatic on? The answers is - no one. You do your best to ignore it and pay attention to your friends. If you are depressed enough over high school bullshit (because bullying is bullshit and it does end) to end it all, seek help. I don't mean that in the condescending way. I mean seriously find someone you can talk to, because it does get better. You just need to find your way to cope.

Oct 17, 2010#37

Cajungal

Six is right when he says "the rest of your days." Bullying is different later in life, but it still exists. And if you don't set a precedent early for standing up for yourself, there's a good chance of being a victim and a doormat in every stage of your life. I don't like violence; I don't welcome the opportunity to harm someone. But if I had thought at one time, after exhausting all other options, that violence would be the only way to get someone to leave me alone, you can be sure I'd have tried it. You have to think of others, but you have to take care of yourself as well.

I can certainly not understand wanting to "stoop to their level," but the goal of violence is different when you're defending yourself. You don't want to be merciless; you just want to deliver a message in a way that they'll understand: "I'm not weak; you can't do this to me." Jake had moments like that as a kid--being tormented by a kid and school. Jake doesn't have a temper, but he knows he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. He fought the kid to defend himself and won. None of the teachers wanted to punish him, because he was simply drawing a line for the other kid. He didn't belabor it; he just made his statement and then walked away.

Oct 17, 2010#38

Hailey Knight

Cajungal said:
Jake doesn't have a temper, but he knows he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.

This is the disturbing precedent a person can set for themselves: that they deserve to be treated as the bully treats them, and it often can follow through life.

Norris still sounds like a man with some deep-rooted issues.

I don't have an answer for the cyber-bullying or group prejudice of these gay kids. I'd say get off Facebook and do something else with your time, but I have no answer for a kid who's being treated like shit by many students for his/her sexuality.

Oct 17, 2010#39

Norris

escushion said:
Norris still sounds like a man with some deep-rooted issues.

Really? How so?

EDIT: I will say that if the bully has gotten physical with you, you have the right to defend yourself. Defend, not escalate. But the vast majority of bullying in my experience has been verbal. Throwing a punch because someone said something mean is, to me, a bigger sign of weakness than just ignoring it. It is you standing up and saying "I can't handle words, and solve problems with my fists" and THAT is a mindset that will lead to you getting into bard fights, getting assault charges, and just generally being a violent prick later in life. You don't punch people over words. Ever.

Oct 17, 2010#40

Cajungal

^I agree with you, Es. I don't like to automatically blame technology for things like this, but targeting insecure people online is like shooting fish in a barrel. And the people who didn't have the guts to attack people in real life can lash out online because, let's face it, plenty of people say things online that they'd never say to someone's face. With or without technology, there will always be bullying. But I remember when home was my sanctuary. I knew that, for about 12 hours, I would be safe and the people who hated me for some reason couldn't touch me. If I'd have had internet when I was a kid, I wouldn't have plastered my life all over it, knowing there were people waiting to tear me down.

Oct 17, 2010#41

Chazwozel

Norris;445085][QUOTE=escushion said:
Norris still sounds like a man with some deep-rooted issues.

Really? How so?[/QUOTE]

I dunno...

When the vast majority of a student body knows you better as "Rudolph" (because your acne is centered on your nose) and utter strangers will serenade you with a jolly Christmas tune as you walk past, who do you punch to make the problem go away? Or when your entire class in elementary school plays a sick game of tag called "Walker Germs" in which you are always it and therefore no one wants to be near you, not even in class, who do you go lunatic on? The answers is - no one. You do your best to ignore it and pay attention to your friends. If you are depressed enough over high school bullshit (because bullying is bullshit and it does end) to end it all, seek help. I don't mean that in the condescending way. I mean seriously find someone you can talk to, because it does get better. You just need to find your way to cope.

Sounds like a fucked up childhood to me.

Oct 17, 2010#42

Norris

Chazwozel said:
Sounds like a fucked up childhood to me.

Yeah, the bullying was pretty fucked up. It sucked. Which is why I prefer to look back and remember the block parties with my friends, the folks I met through choir class, the times I had hanging out with my buddy Nick's family, and meeting all the people I'm still friends with to this day. It was fucked up, and I admit to having a minor phobia of facing crowds alone. But you know what? It doesn't stop me from going out into the world and doing what I need to do. And no insult I've received in years had measured up to that bullshit from so long ago. So yeah, third through eighth grade was kind of fucked up. Everything since then has been kind of great.

Oct 17, 2010#43

Cajungal

I'm glad you were able to come back from it.

I know a couple of people who haven't completely, and I feel for them.

Oct 17, 2010#44

SpecialKO

There's a strange confusion on one side of this argument, it sounds, that thinks that physically standing up to bullies means going all "Death Wish" on their asses. No one is saying that you need to start taking out bullies preemptively, or bringing an assault rifle to school.

Being able to sort out the problem without resorting to violence is always preferable. I don't think anyone sane would disagree with that. But when someone is kicking the crap out of you and stealing your stuff, you need to fight back and stop them.

Or it really will continue, and the best you'll be able to hope for is that at some point in the future, the good parts of your life will help you forget. Screw that noise.

Oct 17, 2010#45

North_Ranger

Chazwozel said:
What other way is there when you're dealing with a bully? How'd settling your differences work out for you (other then being someone's bitch and getting choked)? You said that this continued through high school? Sounds like you should have put your money where your mouth is and knocked a few heads. You're always bragging about your hulking size and intimidating appearance. Why didn't you ever put it to use? Don't give me that "stooping to their level," bullshit. Yeah, you took the moral high ground...

Here you are 15-20 years later and I bet you still remember all the shit you got in high school as if it happened yesterday. I bet your tormentors barely register your face or name on the radar.

(1.) The choking was the tip of the iceberg, the one moment of intense violence I remember clearly. Not only because it was the only time I feared I was going to fie, but also because of the revelation that followed.
(2.) I was 13. How many hulking 13-year-olds do you happen to know?
(3.) The situation turned better for me. The guy who choked me was transferred to another school, the bullying dropped down to levels that barely registered on my radar, and a few years ago I met this bully again. We were both adults about the situation, he apologised and explained himself (he had issues, and no, I won't go into detail about that), and we moved on with our respective lives.
(4.) Oh, and how to deal with bullies other than through violence? I learned that one of the assholes who kept at me had a spinal issue, one that he tried to hide. I let him know that if he keeps pushing me, everyone will learn how he really is a spineless bastard. How's that being a bitch, huh?

Chazwozel said:
North_Ranger;445061][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Click to expand...

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...

I only blame the victim if they continue to play the part of the victim. Stand up for yourself and stop being someone's bitch.[/QUOTE]

Oh get over yourself...

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

AshburnerX;445062][QUOTE=North_Ranger;445061][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean it as in "they are weak and deserved this". That would be cruel and undeserving for these kids, and I'm actually a bit hurt you thought I suggested it. I'm merely advocating against the current school culture that treats acts of self defense the same as acts of oppression. Things like Zero Tolerance promote an image that it's not OK to defend yourself (if your try to push away the guy who took a swing at you, you get the same punishment) and I personally feel like this is raising a generation of people just waiting to be victimized later in life... and it's all being done to make things easier on the administration.

I know there's no easy way to promote this and I know it doesn't always happen in places where people can help them, but without a way for children to work this kind of thing out on their own, we're just going to see more tragedies.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry if I misconstrued you, Ash. As you may have noticed, this is something of a personal topic for me, and part of my childhood that I have since used to be a better person. Part of the reason why I chose to become a teacher was that I hoped to make a difference: if, as a teacher, I can help even a single pupil avoid the shit I had to go through, I know I've made this world even a tad better place. But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

Oct 17, 2010#46

SpecialKO

North_Ranger said:
But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

Oct 17, 2010#47

North_Ranger

SpecialKO said:
North_Ranger said:

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

Click to expand...

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

...

Man, that's just fucked up beyond all reason.

Oct 17, 2010#48

SpecialKO

North_Ranger;445122][QUOTE=SpecialKO said:
North_Ranger said:

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

Click to expand...

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

...

Man, that's just fucked up beyond all reason.[/QUOTE]

It's not that bad everywhere, obviously. It's just that when you combine bullying with a school admin that is actively disinterested in getting involved, which is a fairly frequent American school phenom, it can be real bad for the kids who don't know how to defend themselves and aren't Veronica Mars.

Oct 17, 2010#49

Disconnected

SpecialKO said:
It's not that bad everywhere, obviously. It's just that when you combine bullying with a school admin that is actively disinterested in getting involved, which is a fairly frequent American school phenom, it can be real bad for the kids who don't know how to defend themselves and aren't Veronica Mars.

so Chaz is veronica mars? finally the truth.

Oct 17, 2010#50

Chazwozel

Disconnected;445135][QUOTE=SpecialKO said:
It's not that bad everywhere, obviously. It's just that when you combine bullying with a school admin that is actively disinterested in getting involved, which is a fairly frequent American school phenom, it can be real bad for the kids who don't know how to defend themselves and aren't Veronica Mars.

so Chaz is veronica mars? finally the truth.[/QUOTE]

Vera De Milo

Oct 17, 2010#51

Tress

SpecialKO said:
If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

I've never had this problem, and never heard a single colleague complain of anything like that. Do you have an article or source I can read?

Oct 17, 2010#52

Chazwozel

North_Ranger;445108][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
What other way is there when you're dealing with a bully? How'd settling your differences work out for you (other then being someone's bitch and getting choked)? You said that this continued through high school? Sounds like you should have put your money where your mouth is and knocked a few heads. You're always bragging about your hulking size and intimidating appearance. Why didn't you ever put it to use? Don't give me that "stooping to their level," bullshit. Yeah, you took the moral high ground...

Here you are 15-20 years later and I bet you still remember all the shit you got in high school as if it happened yesterday. I bet your tormentors barely register your face or name on the radar.

Chazwozel said:
North_Ranger;445061][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Click to expand...

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...

AshburnerX;445062][QUOTE=North_Ranger;445061][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Oct 17, 2010#53

Jay

Seems like this forum had a lot of bitches Chaz.

Oct 17, 2010#54

Norris

Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you're being intentionally obtuse. At least I think you are.

Oct 17, 2010#55

SpecialKO

Tress;445156][QUOTE=SpecialKO said:
If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

I've never had this problem, and never heard a single colleague complain of anything like that. Do you have an article or source I can read?[/QUOTE]

Purely anecdotal, I admit, from friends in the NYC public school system. One of them was actually told straight out to not get involved because the administration would handle it (they didn't).

Oct 17, 2010#56

Tress

Ah, the infamously incompetent NYC public school system. That makes sense.

Oct 17, 2010#57

sixpackshaker

I've likely mentioned this before, I was the guy that took up for the small kids in school, so I had a reputation. One day a new kid transferred in and he thought he would gain a reputation by sucker punching the tough guy on the recess yard (me). I went to greet the new guy, he said something about my rep and hit me in the gut as hard as he could, while I had my hand out to shake his. I doubled over of a second, stood up to fight, and saw that kid on the ground with 3 of the small kids on him and a dozen more coming to help. Those kids never had a problem after that. They had an alliance...

of course that is also how street gangs start...

---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------

SpecialKO said:
North_Ranger said:

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

Click to expand...

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

Bullying rarely happens where there is direct supervision. It happens at the bus stop before school, in the hallways between class, in overcrowded phys ed classes... and when a teacher sees bullying behavior it will look like an isolated incident, not a prolonged issue. A teacher will see those kids for 3 hours a week, compared to the 40-50 hours a kid is in school for that week.

Oct 18, 2010#58

North_Ranger

Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

You know what? I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Come back when you're willing to discuss like a human being, not like a troll.

Oct 18, 2010#59

Chazwozel

Norris;445172][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

North_Ranger;445219][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Jay said:
Seems like this forum had a lot of bitches Chaz.

It certainly looks like you can punch them in the nose, watch them sniffle a bit and then walk away. But, hark, they're morally superior (in their mind).

Oct 18, 2010#60

North_Ranger

Chazwozel;445227] [QUOTE=Norris;445172][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you're being intentionally obtuse. At least I think you are.[/QUOTE]

I am with NR because whatever he writes is about 10lbs of shit in a 5lbs sack.[/QUOTE]

And trying to have a reasonable argument with you is like trying to take a bath and finding out that the tub is full of shit. Now, it is my fault for slipping into that tub, but at least I have the good sense to get out.

Chazwozel;445227][QUOTE=North_Ranger;445219][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

You know what? I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Come back when you're willing to discuss like a human being, not like a troll.[/QUOTE]

Because that's what you're going to do, right? How much are you going to pursue without enough evidence? Are you going to follow bullied students to their bus-stop? Are you going to be biased towards your grading of bullies in your classroom? How do you know they're bullies? It's all well and good to say you're going to stop it; it's another thing to put it into practice. You're so full of shit. [/QUOTE]

You know, I might have answered that if you hadn't added that highlighted sentence in the end. It tells me you're not really interested in hearing how I put my training as a teacher to practice; you're just interested in finding a topic that you know nothing about, pull claims out of your ass and get a hard-on from thinking you're oh so much more clever than people who actually know what they're doing. So me trying to argue with you is a practice in futility and wanking your John Thomas, and neither of those activities is of any interest to me.

Have fun in your tub-o'-shit, Shak Alum.

Oct 18, 2010#61

Chazwozel

North_Ranger;445233][QUOTE=Chazwozel;445227] [QUOTE=Norris;445172][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Chazwozel;445227][QUOTE=North_Ranger;445219][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Oct 18, 2010#62

makare

I was never bullied but I had guy friends who were. They generally did the ignore them and they'll go away method and it worked. I think bullying is a pretty personal thing and how you should handle it depends on the situation.

Also, some kids are just assholes. I learned that teaching FIVE YEAR OLDS. I can't imagine it changes as they get older.

Oct 18, 2010#63

Krisken

Yeah, cause if anyone knows about bullying, it's Chaz.

Oct 18, 2010#64

Adammon

Getting back to the topic of discussion, bullying has and always will be a significant problem in schools, just by virtue of kids being kids. Look how Lord of the Flies ended up for crying out loud!

I do, however, get the sense that some parents have not given their kids the tools to cope with adversity such as bullying, whether that's standing up to it and popping the bully in the nose, redirecting that frustration into other worthwhile pursuits such as hobbies, sports, technology, etc. When Little Johnny Snowflake first gets the sense that he isn't the center of the universe, that can be a cold splash of water on one's face.

That said, there are sadist bullies out there, lord knows I encountered enough of them at school being a year younger and a foot shorter than everyone else throughout high school. While it's satisfying to me now that most are in jail or dead, that doesn't really help at the time. I think the best thing for kids is to build strong relationships with peers; friends will support you when parents/administrators cannot - I know I would have spent much more time stuffed in lockers had it not been for the timely intervention of some friends.

Oct 18, 2010#65

MindDetective

This entire thread is facepalm worthy. The truth of the matter is that bullying is a complex issue that involves hormones, innate dominance behaviors, social pressuring, modeling for adults and peers, and stimulus-response learning, among other things. Punishment will rarely fix bullying, I'm pretty sure. Fighting back might sometimes, but it could also make things worse, especially if you fail when fighting back. I think there CAN be a non-violent solution, but it requires an understanding of the important factors involved, such as the social network, physical development, etc. What we need is an evidence-based approach that figures the problem out, not wildly punishing or encouraging violence as people see fit. Until then, it will be like it always is, with bullies and victims playing their respective roles as they have since our tribal ancestors.

Oct 18, 2010#66

North_Ranger

Chazwozel said:
I know plenty about teaching, it's my job. And I know it's not so cut and dry to get involved with student affairs. You think you're the only teacher in the world who wants to stop bullying? You're either really naive or really dumb.

You could have fooled me...

The point still stands, I will not argue this with you since you're clearly more interested in ad hominems than the actual topic.

Oct 18, 2010#67

GasBandit

The problem is the systematic, agregate wussification of the youth of our nation. Do you remember when playground equipment was metal and wood? When scholastic aptitude was more important to grades than self esteem? When you could catch a bad bounce to the face on a grounder and NOT have lawyers get involved? When your personality dysfunctions were YOUR fault, your responsibility to correct, and not summarized by an acronym for which there was a pill to treat? When it was not abnormal to be expected to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery? When a doctor could tell you you needed to lose weight without fearing litigation? .... When people DIDN'T kill themselves because of bullying?

Kids have always been mean, vindictive little backstabbers. What's changed is the softness of the targets.

Oct 18, 2010#68

phil

Every generation thinks the younger one is a bunch of pussies and punks. It's probably not all that much different.

Oct 18, 2010#69

ScytheRexx

I find this thread kind of humorous, in a disturbing way. Not the OP obviously, as that is sad and tragic, just the replies for it.

I used to be bullied a lot as a kid. I actually let it get to me up till 6th grade or so, and that was more because of other issues I was having at home making me not feel very safe anywhere. My nerves were not the best.

As I started going into 7th grade, I just started not caring as much. If someone tried to bully me I would just stare directly at them for awhile to "read" them, never say a word, and if they came off as a coward bully I just leaned my head over, got a little closer, then walked away. They usually would never mess with me again as long as I showed them I was not afraid or really affected by the taunts.

If they came off as a violent bully I would try the same tactic, but if they threw a kick I would block any attacks showing them I was not helpless, as I knew martial arts, but I never hit them back. When I went into 8th grade I even started my "goth" phase, where I wore mostly black shirts, slick hair, and sunglasses everywhere at school.

I never was bullied again.

Sometimes you just have to be a stone rather then a fist, but the worst thing you can be is a wall made of sticks.

Oct 18, 2010#70

GasBandit

phil said:
Every generation thinks the younger one is a bunch of pussies and punks.

Pretty much every generation at least as far back as the 40s has been right.

Oct 18, 2010#71

makare

GasBandit said:
The problem is the systematic, agregate wussification of the youth of our nation. Do you remember when playground equipment was metal and wood? When scholastic aptitude was more important to grades than self esteem? When you could catch a bad bounce to the face on a grounder and NOT have lawyers get involved? When your personality dysfunctions were YOUR fault, your responsibility to correct, and not summarized by an acronym for which there was a pill to treat? When it was not abnormal to be expected to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery? When a doctor could tell you you needed to lose weight without fearing litigation? .... When people DIDN'T kill themselves because of bullying?

Kids have always been mean, vindictive little backstabbers. What's changed is the softness of the targets.

Yeah that's nice, but now that that rant is over let's talk about how to deal with the bullying problem and not the inability of some people to accept that times have changed.

Oct 18, 2010#72

GasBandit

makare;445334][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
The problem is the systematic, agregate wussification of the youth of our nation. Do you remember when playground equipment was metal and wood? When scholastic aptitude was more important to grades than self esteem? When you could catch a bad bounce to the face on a grounder and NOT have lawyers get involved? When your personality dysfunctions were YOUR fault, your responsibility to correct, and not summarized by an acronym for which there was a pill to treat? When it was not abnormal to be expected to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery? When a doctor could tell you you needed to lose weight without fearing litigation? .... When people DIDN'T kill themselves because of bullying?

Kids have always been mean, vindictive little backstabbers. What's changed is the softness of the targets.

Yeah that's nice, but now that that rant is over let's talk about how to deal with the bullying problem and not the inability of some people to accept that times have changed.[/QUOTE]

Why is a shrugged "times have changed" an acceptable rebuttal to my statement, but somehow fails to be acceptable as an explanation for the original question? Yes, times have changed. It was asked why X is happening. Because X is happening because Y is happening. Why is Y happening? Because "times have changed." Here's a flash: Times can change in the other direction, too. How times change is a collective societal decision.

Oct 18, 2010#73

makare

GasBandit;445335][QUOTE=makare;445334][QUOTE=GasBandit said:
The problem is the systematic, agregate wussification of the youth of our nation. Do you remember when playground equipment was metal and wood? When scholastic aptitude was more important to grades than self esteem? When you could catch a bad bounce to the face on a grounder and NOT have lawyers get involved? When your personality dysfunctions were YOUR fault, your responsibility to correct, and not summarized by an acronym for which there was a pill to treat? When it was not abnormal to be expected to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery? When a doctor could tell you you needed to lose weight without fearing litigation? .... When people DIDN'T kill themselves because of bullying?

Kids have always been mean, vindictive little backstabbers. What's changed is the softness of the targets.

Oct 18, 2010#74

Tress

Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oct 18, 2010#75

GasBandit

Tress said:
Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.

So your only solution to this problem is to change the fundamental nature of society? Helpful.

I reject that coddling is fundamental. Systemic, yes. But not intrinsic.

Oct 18, 2010#76

Tress

GasBandit;445340][QUOTE=Tress said:
Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oct 18, 2010#77

makare

GasBandit;445340][QUOTE=Tress said:
Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.

So your only solution to this problem is to change the fundamental nature of society? Helpful.

I reject that coddling is fundamental. Systemic, yes. But not intrinsic.[/QUOTE]

Chaz is bullying NR in an attempt to help us visualize how serious the problem of bullying is.

Also, we should pick sides. I pick NR because he is so sweet and cuddly.

Oct 18, 2010#78

GasBandit

Tress;445342][QUOTE=GasBandit;445340][QUOTE=Tress said:
Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.[/quote]

I'll take that over an old man shaking his cane and telling kids to get off his lawn.[/QUOTE]

I'd be more worried about which you'd choose if you weren't so wussified, you whippersnapper.

Oct 18, 2010#79

Necronic

GasBandit said:
The problem is the systematic, agregate wussification of the youth of our nation. Do you remember when playground equipment was metal and wood? When scholastic aptitude was more important to grades than self esteem? When you could catch a bad bounce to the face on a grounder and NOT have lawyers get involved? When your personality dysfunctions were YOUR fault, your responsibility to correct, and not summarized by an acronym for which there was a pill to treat? When it was not abnormal to be expected to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery? When a doctor could tell you you needed to lose weight without fearing litigation? .... When people DIDN'T kill themselves because of bullying?

Kids have always been mean, vindictive little backstabbers. What's changed is the softness of the targets.

I actually agree with you, with two exceptions (which are bolded).

First, an expansion on your subject and the parts I agree with. I work with my hands. In many ways I am effectively a plumber (that does more exotic plumbing.) Its somewhat hard manual work, but its not as difficult as something like construction work. I think part of the problem is that too few people these days do hard manual labor, and fewer kids do it. Building something with your hands is one of the most truly humanizing things you can do. To take an assortment of items that alone have little purpose, and to create something of value that wouldn't exist without your interference is a great feeling. I think the death of woodshop/autoshop/*shop in high-schools is sad, and I think too many of the kids in this generation (which somewhat includes me) get away with spending all their time creating ephemeral objects through computers, or just experiencing things others have made (gaming for example).

Growing up and never creating anything of value will lead you to believe that you have no value, which, sadly, is kind of true. Boy Scouts did a hell of a lot for me as a kid, knowing that there were things I could do that no one else could. It still pissed me off when people gave me a hard time, but having a core self-esteem to fall back on was critical.

Maybe this is enough for many cases of bullying. From the story linked, some of the bullying that occurred went well beyond this into the realm of wholly unnacceptable. The school should have done something to stop some of this. If the bullying had been a bunch of white kids using racism against a black kid, that would have been incredibly innapropriate right? In the case of that girl there are similarities. Basically if you are raised in an intense enough level of bullying it is almost identical to systematic racism, and it will have the same effects on the psyche of a person in the long run.

Now, on to the parts I disagree with. First, the bullying to death. Well, I guess what I said above covers that. I think that there are instances where it isn't just a matter of 'suck it up' or 'its all just a part of growing up', where it is tantamount to a crime. I don't know where you draw that line. The girls making jokes at the girl's funeral may be an example, but to be totally honest, me and some friends made jokes about a classmate that died (to be fair he wasn't a victim of bullying, he was driving a little recklessly.) Kids can be messed up.

The other part I disagree with (somewhat) is the personality disorder. It depends on what you are talking about, but there are things that really do need to be treated at a young age, and for a long time people didn't understand these illnesses and treated the affected individual incredibly poorly. Examples would be BAP (Broader Autism Phenotype), Dyslexia, and certain types of depression to name a few. Guess you weren't talking about those, but back in the day they would have been considered a personality disorder, so maybe some of the stuff you are talking about will one day be understood to be a much more serious condition.

Oct 18, 2010#80

Chazwozel

makare;445343][QUOTE=GasBandit;445340][QUOTE=Tress said:
Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.

So your only solution to this problem is to change the fundamental nature of society? Helpful.

Oct 18, 2010#81

makare

Or NR recognizes futility when he sees it. I respect that.

Oct 18, 2010#82

GasBandit

Necronic said:
Examples would be BAP (Broader Autism Phenotype), Dyslexia, and certain types of depression to name a few. Guess you weren't talking about those, but back in the day they would have been considered a personality disorder, so maybe some of the stuff you are talking about will one day be understood to be a much more serious condition.

No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.

Oct 18, 2010#83

North_Ranger

makare said:
Or NR recognizes futility when he sees it. I respect that.

Thank you. You were right on the money with that analysis of the situation.

Oct 18, 2010#84

Tress

GasBandit;445345][QUOTE=Tress;445342][QUOTE=GasBandit;445340][QUOTE=Tress said:
Gas, it kinda feels like you're trying to hijack this thread to discuss your continuing disdain for society in general. I think people here want to stay focused on bullying and not get into yet another discussion about whatever social ills you've identified as your latest irritant.

Oct 18, 2010#85

Norris

GasBandit;445371][QUOTE=Necronic said:
Examples would be BAP (Broader Autism Phenotype), Dyslexia, and certain types of depression to name a few. Guess you weren't talking about those, but back in the day they would have been considered a personality disorder, so maybe some of the stuff you are talking about will one day be understood to be a much more serious condition.

No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.[/QUOTE]

I find it funny that you happened to make these comments on a day where a good friend of mine forgot her ADD meds and she suffered a notable loss of focus in class. Just because something is somewhat over diagnosed, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also - every playground I've ever been to in my life has been made primarily from metal or wood. And how does the introduction of faster shipping options as technology and competition streamline the delivery process represent a wussification of our society? Is it not better to receive your packages within ten to twenty business days? The rest of your examples strike me as the kind of thing someone who gets most of their understanding about modern parenting from news articles. The vast majority of parents aren't that much more cautious than those of the previous generation.

Though I have noted that there seems to be an inverse relationship between the actual safety of a child's environment and the parental perception of that safety. IE, a parent in a poorer and somewhat more dangerous neighborhood seems to be more willing to allow their children the run of the neighborhood than a parent in a highly secure upscale suburb.

Chazwozel said:
Yeah, and notice how NR backs off instead of standing his fucking ground...

I know. It is so vital that our children learn to keep every single argument they ever get into going until it ends in fisticuffs or mutual resentment. Especially the case for the most meaningful arguments of all - those on internet message boards.

Oct 18, 2010#86

Tress

GasBandit;445371][QUOTE=Necronic said:
Examples would be BAP (Broader Autism Phenotype), Dyslexia, and certain types of depression to name a few. Guess you weren't talking about those, but back in the day they would have been considered a personality disorder, so maybe some of the stuff you are talking about will one day be understood to be a much more serious condition.

Oct 18, 2010#87

Dave

To Gas and Chaz, not all people are secure enough to take a poke at a bully. Specifically, they are the individuals which are targeted the most frequently by the bullies. And if they attempted to take a stand and they were not successful, it would only make things worse. As someone who was picked on at a very early age I can tell you that taking a stand is not always necessarily the answer. Sometimes it causes things to be worse and worse until finally one day you do something radical which shall be unmentioned at this time. Suffice it to say that it shaped who I am and it's one of the least nice things I've ever done. Standing up to the bully made it so much worse it was not to be believed. I'm a former Marine who is not afraid of anyone yet my time being bullied shaped who I am today and not necessarily in a good way.

The problem is the blaming of the victim and the societal system is not a healthy answer and is, in fact, the absolute worse thing you could say. Telling a kid that he's weak and needs to stand up for himself reinforces the weakness and fear - this time by an adult and authority figure. Like my dad and his friends.

Again, each person's experiences are different and I'm glad yours was positive. But in most cases that's not the case.

Oct 18, 2010#88

Norris

Tress;445385][QUOTE=GasBandit;445371][QUOTE=Necronic said:
Examples would be BAP (Broader Autism Phenotype), Dyslexia, and certain types of depression to name a few. Guess you weren't talking about those, but back in the day they would have been considered a personality disorder, so maybe some of the stuff you are talking about will one day be understood to be a much more serious condition.

No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.[/QUOTE]

You are 100% right about this. Recently I had a student with honest-to-god ADHD. Now that I know what it looks like when you have the real thing, all these others kids who claim to have it because they don't want to pay attention or do homework can fuck off. I'm not putting up with that shit in my class anymore.[/QUOTE]

What if they can bring in proof from a doctor in the proper field? Just because their symptoms do not fit your definition of "the real thing" doesn't mean they aren't afflicted.

EDIT: Dave speaks truth. Also - every bully I ever encountered (admittedly, none in high school) had friends. Lots of friends. Friends who either didn't see their antics as bullying or just didn't care. The one time I tried to stand up to a bully (I knocked his hat off of his head at recess when he was up in my face - this dude never hit me, but damn did his teasing make me hate school for a while). Cue me being mobbed by a dozen of his friends (mixed gender, it wasn't a posse of ass kicking) demanding to know what my problem was and why don't I take him to "Peer Mediation"? This is the same damn kid whose behavior was so bad towards me that the teacher, upon hearing me tell him off once, told my mom she was proud of me. So yeah. Standing up for yourself only goes so damn far.

Oct 18, 2010#89

Tress

No, if they aren't showing real symptoms and hiding behind a doctor's note, then that does mean they aren't afflicted. That's my whole point, actually. So when they talk to their friends during class and play around on their cell phones, or don't do homework and just shrug their shoulders when I ask about it, I don't want to hear "you can't do or say anything because he/she has ADHD." Having actually seen what it's like for some kids I'm not going to accept that excuse from students who are obviously hiding behind a label to get out of doing work.

But all this is off topic. If someone else wants to make an ADHD thread we could take it over there.

Oct 18, 2010#90

Chazwozel

Norris said:
I know. It is so vital that our children learn to keep every single argument they ever get into going until it ends in fisticuffs or mutual resentment. Especially the case for the most meaningful arguments of all - those on internet message boards.

Did somebody say fisticuffs?

Oct 18, 2010#91

AshburnerX

mr_thehun said:
When I was a baby my left eye and left eye never pointed in the same direction...

You have two left eyes?!?

Oct 18, 2010#92

Hailey Knight

AshburnerX;445440][QUOTE=mr_thehun said:
When I was a baby my left eye and left eye never pointed in the same direction...

You have two left eyes?!?[/QUOTE]

Something about that forces me to victimize him.

Oct 18, 2010#93

Chazwozel

mr_thehun said:
I was bullied in school because I have weird eyes. I developed early in life just about every problem that can happen to your eyes without going blind. When I was a baby my left eye and right eye never pointed in the same direction, I had cateracts, I couldn't stop my eyes from moving etc etc... (I had more than ten eye operations by the time I was fourteen)

I looked rather crazy? This has left me with eyesight that makes me rather disabled when it comes to physical activities like ball sports (thankfully to do most martial arts, you don't need the best of eyesight. While I wasn't any good at it, I still loved my karate and jujutsu classes)

anyway

These three guys who were easily a foot taller than me would always push me around and take my stuff. They had failed a grade each and so were 18 years old in grade 11.

The inevitable happened and I told them off and tried to stand up for myself so the three of them beat me down (after I put up a fight) they started walking away as I was in a bloody mess on the ground, and so I got up because I didn't want to give up, they would turn around and start the fight again. this happened four times and at the end of it: my nose was broken, my wrist was broken and still has a number of scars, I had two broken ribs, my face was covered in bruises and cuts, a dislocated shoulder and I had a twisted ankle (not sure about internal damage but I was kept in the hospital for some time). (in return, I think I bruised them a little bit, I wasn't just taking a beating but three on one is bad odds for bruce lee (unless they line up))

I hobbled to my math class and apparently my math teacher failed to realize I was in this state so I did the test I had been preparing for and then asked to be taken to the hospital because the pain finally hit me.

The next day the pressure in my eyes built up to the point I couldn't see through my corneas, I was a new member of the glaucoma club! (Until the end of university, I had to take five different types of steroidal eyedrops to keep the pressure down. After ten years I no longer have to take any medication.)

But hey, I got an A on my math test and those three guys never bothered me again... because they went to prison for raping a girl shortly afterward. However, I'm sure

Would I do it again? I don't know... I'm 24 and my wrist makes really loud popping noises whenever I move it (so, almost all the time) but other than that I have a few scars on my body.

You stood your ground. You sir are A-Ok in my book.

Oct 19, 2010#94

North_Ranger

...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Oct 19, 2010#95

Chazwozel

North_Ranger said:
...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.

Oct 19, 2010#96

LordRendar

When I was in the 6 grade I was regularly bullied by this sadistic fuck. he would put thumbtacks into my shoes during PE or empty his juicebox into my backpack and made my schoollife a living hell..
One day after I overtook him on the stairs,which he took as an affront,pulled me around and punched me in the eye.I proceded to tumble down the stairs. After picking myself up I entered the classroom picked up a chair and went apeshit on him. Broke his arms and jaw and gave him a concussion.
I visited him in the hospital to tell him what I did was wrong,but if he ever was gonna bother me again,I would kill him.A couple of months later he came to talk to me and to apologize.Told me his parents got divorced and he needed to vent his anger and i seemed like a viable target. We became good friends soon after. ( and no,we didnt become a bullying team.We started playing soccer.)

Oct 19, 2010#97

Dave

Chazwozel;445477][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:
...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.[/QUOTE]

So was Ghandi then. Quit being a prick.

Oct 19, 2010#98

Krisken

Oct 19, 2010#99

Norris

Dave;445481][QUOTE=Chazwozel;445477][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:
...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Oct 19, 2010#100

Chazwozel

Norris;445505][QUOTE=Dave;445481][QUOTE=Chazwozel;445477][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:
...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.[/QUOTE]

So was Ghandi then. Quit being a prick.[/QUOTE]

I dunno, while I'd not call NR a coward, I must note that he basically walked up to his bully, tapped him on the shoulder to get his attention, and then told him that he's ignoring the bully. The 'Wozel is right, NR did nothing but poke the badger with that post.[/QUOTE]

I'm not a bully, so fuck off with that nonsense. I'll tell someone how full of shit they are, and if they throw garbage at me, I'll throw it right back. That's not being a bully, that's called holding your own.

I wouldn't even mind NR at all if he wasn't a big defensive whino half the time. Guess that's what happens when you've never stood up for yourself.

Oct 19, 2010#101

phil

I lol'd

Oct 19, 2010#102

Krisken

1. A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.
2. To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation

Oct 19, 2010#103

SpecialKO

Chaz, you're being a bit of an ass, don't you think?

Obviously, a substantial percentage of those of us in this thread have had bullying experiences ranging from bad to really bad that have "helped" define us over the years.

Kicking people in the ass to "wake them up" over something very intensely personal like this subject doesn't seem particularly productive, and might actually be emotional distressful to the point of being harmful. You really should lay off.

Oct 19, 2010#104

Chazwozel

Scud said:
1. A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.
2. To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation

1. NR is not smaller than me.

2. What way am I exactly forcing here? I called out NR on his crap and he got all hissy. Am I threatening to come over to his house and beat him up? The only person I'll admit to "bullying" on this forum was Mav. And I wasn't the only one. But alas, please let's turn this into yet another douchebag's vs. Chaz thread. I love those, especially when it makes you feel like you're getting back at all those folks who done you wrong in the past.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

SpecialKO said:
Chaz, you're being a bit of an ass, don't you think?

Obviously, a substantial percentage of those of us in this thread have had bullying experiences ranging from bad to really bad that have "helped" define us over the years.

Kicking people in the ass to "wake them up" over something very intensely personal like this subject doesn't seem particularly productive, and might actually be emotional distressful to the point of being harmful. You really should lay off.

I'm not the one who brought it up, and if you look back, I'm really not the one who started it. NR got overly defensive, as usual.

Oct 19, 2010#105

Krisken

Man, if you don't see it by now, you never will. But you're right. The rest of us who disagree with you and refrain from the constant name calling are douche bags.

Oct 19, 2010#106

makare

Classic chaz.

Oct 19, 2010#107

Chazwozel

makare said:
Classic chaz.

Perhaps I should go to the mall and giggle to myself over buying a thong used to specifically bully a classmate of mine that has differing views on morals?

Oct 19, 2010#108

makare

Nice try. No one is going to be distracted by that though.

Oct 19, 2010#109

SpecialKO

Given the intense level of personal involvement in this topic, a lighter touch would not be a bad thing. Calling someone out, even if they're wrong, is much more confrontational than this conversation wararnts, and in this case is best reserved for close RL friends and/or a therapist, not internet peeps you hang out with.

Ease up, man.

Oct 19, 2010#110

Espy

Chazwozel;445508][QUOTE=Norris;445505][QUOTE=Dave;445481][QUOTE=Chazwozel;445477][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:
...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Oct 19, 2010#111

Chazwozel

SpecialKO said:
Given the intense level of personal involvement in this topic, a lighter touch would not be a bad thing. Calling someone out, even if they're wrong, is much more confrontational than this conversation wararnts, and in this case is best reserved for close RL friends and/or a therapist, not internet peeps you hang out with.

Ease up, man.

Fine.

This was my first response to NR:

I bet you would have saved yourself a whole shit ton of mental scarring if you learned to stand up for yourself and pop a few black eyes. After being choked like that, the attacker is the free game, not you! You know what you do, kick him square in the fucking teeth.

It's not mean. It tells it how it is.

Oct 19, 2010#112

Dave

But see that's not a good response because it doesn't always work! Getting up and kicking someone in the teeth frequently makes shit worse. As it did in my case. And many others. Yes, if it's only 1 bully it might work and I'm glad it did in your case, dude. But in several case it's a fucking pack of bad guys who if you get up they delight in knocking you down again and again and again.

Oct 19, 2010#113

Disconnected

Norris;445505][QUOTE=Dave;445481][QUOTE=Chazwozel;445477][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:
...

No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.

*walks outside and facepalms*

Oct 19, 2010#114

makare

This thread needs less badger and more mushroom MUSHROOM.

Oct 19, 2010#115

Chazwozel

No please, more, I love being the Halforums pinata of misplaced physiological transference. That's right, mmm mob mentality tastes so good.

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

Dave said:
But see that's not a good response because it doesn't always work! Getting up and kicking someone in the teeth frequently makes shit worse. As it did in my case. And many others. Yes, if it's only 1 bully it might work and I'm glad it did in your case, dude. But in several case it's a fucking pack of bad guys who if you get up they delight in knocking you down again and again and again.

It's not a bad one either, and he didn't have to get all butthurt over it.

Oct 19, 2010#116

Norris

Chazwozel said:
No please, more, I love being the Halforums pinata of misplaced physiological transference. That's right, mmm mob mentality tastes so good.

It's not a bad one either, and he didn't have to get all butthurt over it.

Oct 19, 2010#117

phil

You should rember that Chaz is a scared man child crying for attention, and that should give you a clue about the fat joke.

Oct 19, 2010#118

Chazwozel

Norris;445548][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
No please, more, I love being the Halforums pinata of misplaced physiological transference. That's right, mmm mob mentality tastes so good.

It's not a bad one either, and he didn't have to get all butthurt over it.

1) We have a thread about bullying. A person comes in and says that anyone who doesn't punch the problem in the mouth is a weakling who is just asking for more bullying. He is the victim because people think he's being a dick. Makes sense to me!

2) If it makes the situation worse, that is definition of a bad response.

Also, did you respond to the definition of bullying with an attempt at a fat joke, or am I reading too much asshole into "not smaller"?[/QUOTE]

It wasn't a fat joke. HE'S LITERALLY BIGGER THAN I AM! Why does transfer into fat joke? Jesus, would it have been better if I said his mass was greater than my own?

I hate to say it but GasBandit is 100%.

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

phil said:
You should rember that Chaz is a scared man child crying for attention, and that should give you a clue about the fat joke.

And here comes the armchair psycho-analysis. Thanks, doc.

Oct 19, 2010#119

makare

Some psychological issues are so obvious and well known that anyone can spot them... except of course the person who has it.

Oct 19, 2010#120

Chazwozel

makare said:
Some psychological issues are so obvious and well known that anyone can spot them... except of course the person who has it.

Yes. You have obsessive compulsive personality disorder in conjunction with an eating disorder. Am I close?

Oct 19, 2010#121

phil

Chazwozel;445553][QUOTE=Norris;445548][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
No please, more, I love being the Halforums pinata of misplaced physiological transference. That's right, mmm mob mentality tastes so good.

It's not a bad one either, and he didn't have to get all butthurt over it.

phil said:
You should rember that Chaz is a scared man child crying for attention, and that should give you a clue about the fat joke.

And here comes the armchair psycho-analysis. Thanks, doc.[/QUOTE]

I'm just telling it like it is etc. Etc. People need to be called out on their bullshit and so forth.

Oct 19, 2010#122

makare

Close. I do have ocd/anxiety but I take meds for it so that is controlled. I don't have an eating disorder though.

Now do yourself. What exactly is YOUR problem chaz?

Oct 19, 2010#123

MindDetective

makare said:
Some psychological issues are so obvious and well known that anyone can spot them... except of course the person who has it.

Ugh.

Oct 19, 2010#124

Dave

Bullying sucks.

So does this thread.

:lock:

Forums