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Yes, yes, once again. Still, as some may have read in the Rants thread, both of our laptops are now out, my remaining pc doesn't have a network card, and all in all, I'm looking to buy a replacement right about now, give or take a week.
I suppose I could try to assemble it myself, but if sensible, I'll prefer buying a whole pc - unless someone can show me a deal where the price difference is THAT big that it'll be worth mucking about for hours. Also note that any suggestiosn have to be able to be delivered in Belgium. Mostly this doesn't pose a problem, but you never know.

Anyway, I'm still playing mostly the same games. For the new pc, Witcher 2, Heroes of Might and Magic VI, Total War: Rome II seem to be the titles I'll be looking at first to play.
Also note that I find it far more important to be able to play computer games on "medium" settings in 3 years' time, than I do being able to play them in SuperUltraPower mode right now; I'm not a huge fan of upgrading every bit one at a time but I'm perfectly ok with buying a new graphics card in a year or two.

My budget isn't technically fixed, though every build I make tends to come out high. Honestly, I'd like to spend about €850-€950 (excluding monitor), but they tend to come out somewhere around €1300-€1400.
One sticky point is that I'd really like an SSD as boot disc, as I know it's an immense difference, but that's still not very often an option for gaming pcs, except for the high-end systems. I have no clue why.

Anyway.

Option 1 - Alienware X51 - €1300 - Yes, I know it's a Dell.

Win 8 64b
Intel® Core™ i7-4770 processor (8MB Cache)
2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 670
8GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1600Mhz (or 16GB for €50 extra - is it worth it?)
2TB (64MB Cache) 7200 RPM SATA 3Gb/s (or 256GB SSD + 1TB 5400RPM SATA 3Gb/s for €300 extra - which is ridiculously overpriced imho)
Also, a DVD-burner, wireless network card and all that other stuff you put in a pc.


Option 2 - Alternate.be - €1415

1 x Scythe Mugen 3 SCMG-3100 Rev. B
2 x MSI N660 TF 2GD5/OC
1 x Microsoft Windows 8 64b
1 x Intel® Core™ i5-3570K
1 x be quiet! Straight Power E9 CM 680W
1 x Corsair Carbide 500R
1 x Sharkoon Media Reader CF
1 x LG GH-24NS (DVD-drive, nothing special)
1 x Crucial CT128M4SSD2
1 x ASRock Z77 Extreme4
1 x Seagate ST1000DM003 1 TB
1 x Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1866 Kit


Option 3 - Zercom.eu - €1003

Microsoft Win8 64bit
Samsung 840 series 120GB
LG GH24NS95 (against, just some DVD-drive)
Gigabyte Radeon HD7950 WindForce 3
Western Digital Blue WD5000AAKX, 500GB
Corsair CMV8GX3M2A1333C9
Asrock B75 Pro3-M
Intel Core i5 3570K Boxed
XFX Pro 550W
Cooler Master K380 | RC-K380-KWN1


Option 4 - gamepc.nl - €1299 - unfortunately not as reliable a site as those others, but who knows?

Intel Core i5-3570K 4.20 GHz
Corsair Hydro H60 (don't ask me why this one suddenly gets water cooling)
Corsair Force Series GT 120GB
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB
Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3-1600
Nvidia MSI GTX 660 TF 2GD5/OC
Motherboard MSI Z77A-G45
Power HX Series HX650
Windows 8 64bit NL
And once again, some random DVD drive - though this one's a burner, too.


Option 5 - anything else I haven't thought of. Feel free to give sugestions. Open to pretty much anything; I plan to buy a new monitor as well, probably 21" though I haven't decided yet.

I too am looking to get a new rig, so I shall be following this thread with interest.

I'm going to try to beat PatrThom to it and say try to get the new Haswell chip if you can. It's the I7 4770k. I don't see it listed on any of the systems you have. I know Cyberpower has systems you can build with it now, not sure if they do international or how good they are though. Here's alink to one I put together quick from their site. http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1F5UXR. It doesn't sound like it's a huge jump in desktop performance, but the socket is different so it will leave you open to the possibility of an upgrade later on without changing the motherboard.

Here's what I built from the link:
*_PRICE: (+1306)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-4770K 3.50 GHz 8MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1150 (All Venom OC Certified) Cooling Fan: * CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo Gaming Cooling Fan [+4]
Motherboard: * [CrossFireX] Gigabyte Z87-HD3 Intel Z87 Chipset DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ IRST, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16 (1 Gen3, 1 Gen2), 2 PCIe x1 & 2 PCI (Pro OC Certified) Intel Smart Response Technology for Z77: None
Memory: 16GB (8GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory [+89] (G.SKILL Ripjaws X [+29]) Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 1GB 16X PCIe 3.0
Power Supply Upgrade: * 1,000 Watts - LEPA G1000-MA 80 Plus Gold Certified Modular Power Supply [+94]
Hard Drive: 128GB Corsair Force GS Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 560MB/s Read & 535MB/s Write [+57] (Single Drive)
Data Hard Drive: 1TB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+85] (Single Drive)
Optical Drive: 24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: LG 14X Internal Blu-ray Burner, BD-RE, DVD+RW, 3D Playback Combo Drive [+99]
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
LCD Monitor: None
Speakers: None
Network: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
Keyboard: AZZA Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard [+5]
Mouse: AZZA Optical 1600dpi Gaming Mouse with Weight Adjustable Cartridge [+4]

Also, it looks like there's no OS installed by default, so that would be extra.

Shakey said:

I'm going to try to beat PatrThom to it and say try to get the new Haswell chip if you can. It's the I7 4770k. I don't see it listed on any of the systems you have. I know Cyberpower has systems you can build with it now, not sure if they do international or how good they are though. Here's alink to one I put together quick from their site. http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1F5UXR. It doesn't sound like it's a huge jump in desktop performance, but the socket is different so it will leave you open to the possibility of an upgrade later on without changing the motherboard.

Click to expand...

The first one (the Alienware) has a Haswell. The others don't, because those sites don't offer them yet I would prefer to geto ne, for the exact reason you said, though

Very nice system, btw, but they don't ship outside if the 50 states + APO/FPO.

Relocate to the US.

Bubble181 said:

The first one (the Alienware) has a Haswell. The others don't, because those sites don't offer them yet I would prefer to geto ne, for the exact reason you said, though

Very nice system, btw, but they don't ship outside if the 50 states + APO/FPO.

Click to expand...

Ship it to me. I'd totally send it on to you.

And as always, buy all the RAM that you can afford.

Shakey said:

Ship it to me. I'd totally send it on to you.

Click to expand...

I'd actually be okay with shipping it to...some forumites, but US has a different power supply than msot of Europe

Bubble181 said:

I'd actually be okay with shipping it to...some forumites, but US has a different power supply than msot of Europe

Click to expand...

Power supply is the same. You just need a different cord.

stienman said:

Power supply is the same. You just need a different cord.

Click to expand...

And don't forget to flip the little switch 0n the supply.

Shakey said:

I'm going to try to beat PatrThom to it and say try to get the new Haswell chip if you can.

Click to expand...

Nice try. I already bookmarked this thread to get back to later because I'm extreeemly short on free time right now, but if we're talking a system where price is an important factor, then my recommendation probably won't include the hottest new Haswell. In fact, if you're talking a Haswell system that you're definitely going to upgrade later, my recommendation would be for the i5-4570 processor. It's the best-performing, lowest foot-in-the-door price on a quad-core Haswell. True, it's not multiplier unlocked (no -K suffix), you have 2MB less cache, and there is no hyperthreading, but guess what? Games don't really benefit from hyperthreading, and it's going to be such a big step up from whatever you use now that you're not going to notice the 8% performance dip from the difference in cache size. Building a system for the long haul is always about getting the best motherboard (and possibly PSU and case) underneath all your swappable parts, and then choosing the remaining parts based on needs/budget. That means a board based on one of the Lynx Point chipsets (probably based on Z87), although right now I'm not 100% confident recommending anything based on Lynx Point due to that USB3.0 bug since I don't know when the new (fixed) chipset revision will start coming out. Hence why I say I might end up recommending an Ivy Bridge setup.

Shakey said:

And don't forget to flip the little switch 0n the supply.

Click to expand...

Some of 'em don't even have that little switch any more. Full range, baby!

--Patrick

Do we have any Swiss/Austrian forumites? Because their ALDI has a ridiculously good offer going atm....
http://www.aldi-suisse.ch/ch/html/offers/2867_36373_DEU_HTML.htm

For the non-German-or-French-speaking among us:
€999 for
Haswell i7-4770K
16GB 1600MHz RAM
Nvidia GTX 670 with 2GB DDR5
32GB SSD
2 TB HDD
DVD-burner

If I had the time, it'd literally be worth it for me to simply drive over there and get it (that's 700 miles or so). And in case you're wondering, while Medion is a relatively "cheap" brand of computer (and the cases tend to be a bit loud and plastic), their components are always fairly good - their motherboards are all MSI for example, the SSD is a Corsair.

Bubble181 said:

Do we have any Swiss/Austrian forumites? Because their ALDI has a ridiculously good offer going atm....
http://www.aldi-suisse.ch/ch/html/offers/2867_36373_DEU_HTML.htm

For the non-German-or-French-speaking among us:
€999 for
Haswell i7-4770K
16GB 1600MHz RAM
Nvidia GTX 670 with 2GB DDR5
32GB SSD
2 TB HDD
DVD-burner

If I had the time, it'd literally be worth it for me to simply drive over there and get it (that's 700 miles or so). And in case you're wondering, while Medion is a relatively "cheap" brand of computer (and the cases tend to be a bit loud and plastic), their components are always fairly good - their motherboards are all MSI for example, the SSD is a Corsair.

Click to expand...

That seems awfully cheap for the specs. What's the catch?

Ravenpoe said:

That seems awfully cheap for the specs. What's the catch?

Click to expand...

Well, Aldi's a hard discounter, so their prices tend to be very cheap - and, of course, they only put something like 4 or 5 of these pcs per shop. If you want to be sure to get one, you better be there the first day they go on sale half an hour before opening time.
A long long time ago, I can still remember, (how the music used to make me smile...And I knew that if I had a chance....), I actually went with my dad to pick up the then-awesome Pentium 3 666MHz, and the first two Aldi's we came to had lines so long that personnel was already telling people to go elsewhere - an hour before the shop opened.

That said, one "catch" is that they don't have any extra cooling besides just the case fans - so they tend to be quite loud. Other than that...None that I know of. Some of their pcs are better-built than others, but their customer service is, very surprisingly, pretty good.

If I were starting over with a new PC, I'd check the Tom's Hardware system builder marathon articles.

But my system is still quite viable even two years later, so I'm standing pat.

Though I ended up building something quite different, I used Tom's Hardware to get a gauge on good video cards, motherboards, and CPUs.

Different question, but related, of course.

On the one hand, there's this pc:

MEDION® AKOYA PC P5357 F

i5-4430
Windows 8
8GB DDR63-1600MHz
1 TB HDD
64GB SSD
Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 1.5GB
DVD-rewriter

All built and ready to go, for €849.

On the other hand, if I try and build things myself:

i5-4430
Windows 8
8GB DDR3-1600MHz
1 TB HDD
120GB SSD
Nvidia GeForce GTX 760 2GB Jetstream
DVD-rewiter
a case and power supply etc

All loose pieces I'd have to configure together myself, for about €850.

The second one has a larger SSD, a much better graphics card, a slightly lesser motherboard (1e has a H85, second a B85), which are benefits, but I have to completely build it myself and there's absolutely no extras anywhere on it, which are the obvious down sides.
Would you say it's worth building it myself - considering I'm really, really bad at fine motor skills and tend to be clumsy as well? I mean, I'll probably end up replacing the GFx card somewhere down the line anyway, probably later with the second one... But the first one comes with a 2 year warranty and such as well, of course....So, err, WWYD? Assuming you're not a tech specialist who eats chips for breakfast

If manual dexterity is a concern, it's OK to go for the first one...depending on its power supply.
Upgrading SSD/GPU later is a very easy process, upgrading the PSU is not.

--Patrick

I'll take this over...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883258020

Seems tempting, it has everything I want but BluRay (still too expensive for PC's)and USB 3.0.[DOUBLEPOST=1373915183][/DOUBLEPOST]also the power supply seems a bit light for this much PC.

Do you want this for gaming? A GT 640 is not a good card. I mean, it'll get the job done at low/medium, but otherwise you're gonna be disappointed.

I have a decent video card but it's old.

I could build, but I am so behind the times on my hardware knowledge it is pitiful.

I only have like a $700 budget for a tower.

All 4 of the systems you link have unsatisfactory gaming cards. I would not recommend less than a 660 (NVIDIA) or x8xx-series (AMD) card as a minimum.

Actually right now I think the best BFB cards are AMD's 7850 or NVIDIA's 660/760.

--Patrick

sixpackshaker said:

I have a decent video card but it's old.

I could build, but I am so behind the times on my hardware knowledge it is pitiful.

I only have like a $700 budget for a tower.

Click to expand...

A quick look around r/buildapc shows a $600 build sans optical drive, if you're inclined to build yourself. Looks pretty good, although I'll depend upon PatrThom to weigh in on it.

But that runs over my budget once I add win 8 oem $139

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202004

same chipset but cheaper. I don't know if I trust the company enough though.

sixpackshaker said:

But that runs over my budget once I add win 8 oem $139

Click to expand...

Is Windows 8 any good for gaming? I heard some games have trouble running on it.

I have a GTS 450, it does out perform the video card that is on the list.

similar to this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134119

trade the card to the computer that I'll give my Mom.

drifter said:

A quick look around r/buildapc shows a $600 build sans optical drive, if you're inclined to build yourself. Looks pretty good, although I'll depend upon PatrThom to weigh in on it.

Click to expand...

I had no idea that pcpartpicker tool existed. Nice!
This $675 build is designed to get the best foundation under you without compromising your ability to play too much at the absolute minimum price. You said you already had a video card of some sort, so I would expect you to stick with that until you can afford something newer (or suffer with the not-entirely-terrible integrated graphics for a couple months).
One caveat: The (budget) processor I really wanted to recommend is the i3-4330, but apparently it hasn't quite been released yet. However, once it is released, I expect its price to probably be lower than the $200 i5-4570 that is part of the above build, so you might want to hold off a couple months to see if you can knock an extra $50-$75 off the above price.

--Patrick

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883258021

Has at least 2 ports of usb3 and the video card is a bit more powerful than the one I use now. I'd just need to up the RAM to 16gb in the future (and likely faster RAM.)

A colleague who also has a pc store thingie (from the back of his van sort of deal) put together this pc:
i5-3500
8GB Ballistix memory
1TB HDD (Western Digital)
128 SSD
GTX 470 1GB
Win 7 pro
in a Sharkoon case, with a 700W OCZ power supply.

Compared to the Medion pc linked earlier, far worse graphics card and a bit weaker processor, but better power supply, bigger SSD, better cooling (Medion cases aren't exactly known for being anything more than a box to put parts in )

For the Medion, I checked and there's a Fortron 450W power supply in there, which is of course on the low side...
I can see the trade-offs, and in theory I'd say the graphics card, eh, I'll replace it in a year or so, but I'm not exactly convinced. Should I tell him to go stuff it since the Medion is better, or would you say it's something that can be built on?

I have now finally bought the parts. Expect lots of posts voicing my frustration and annoyance in the future, along with cries for help and annoying newbie questions.

@PatrThom: you didn't have anything planned next week, did you?

(I'll be watching videos and how to's first, don't worry )[DOUBLEPOST=1375888316,1375888071][/DOUBLEPOST]Parts bought:

i5 4570
ASRock B85M-HDS
MSI GeForce GTX 760 2GB Twin Frozr Gaming
Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST2000DM001, 2TB

Corsair Carbide 200R
LG IPS237L (monitor)
Gelid Solutions Tranquillo Rev.2
Corsair Vengeance LP CML8GX3M2A1600C9
LG GH24NS90 Zwart (DVD-drive)
Seasonic M12II 520W
Crucial 2.5" M500 120GB[DOUBLEPOST=1375888458][/DOUBLEPOST]Don't ask me about that lay-out. I tried copy-pasting without lay-out and it still comes out like ass.

Biggest thing to remember if your Processor is not already on the Motherboard - use thermal grease (if it's not already attached to the heatsink). You'll cook your processor without it.

Otherwise, take your time and make sure parts fit in together correctly and are plugged in all of the way.

i5 4570
-Probably not the best gaming CPU, but probably the best all-around CPU for the money.

ASRock B85M-HDS
-Odd. ASRock's site says that board has 2xPCI. But it doesn't. And the manual confirms no PCI. Must be a typo.
-With the B85 chipset, you give up built-in RAID and SSD caching, but this shouldn't matter if you use the SSD as your boot drive.
-Slightly limited for RAM expansion because it only has 2xRAM slots, but this is not at all that unusual for the Micro-ATX size.
-Intel has already said they're going to update CPU code to prohibit overclocking on non-xxxK CPUs, but again I don't think this'll be an issue.
-Make sure the BIOS has the SATA ports set to AHCI mode to get their maximum performance.

MSI GeForce GTX 760 2GB Twin Frozr Gaming
-Performance is either on par with or just below the previous generation GTX 670 but at slightly higher power consumption. The 760 is quieter, though.
-FWIW, the 760 overclocks well, which can gain you as much as 20% performance (to higher than the 670, but at higher power/noise, of course).
-I was actually surprised you spent part of your budget on a card rather than saving up for later.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST2000DM001, 2TB
-The 64MB cache will help offset the slow, mechanical access time.
-Plenty of storage for stuff that your computer doesn't need to access all the time. Music, documents, all that stuff. A great D:\.
-BUUUUT...keep external backups anyway.

Corsair Carbide 200R
-Handy interior, and good price, but the drive cage is a source of frustration for at least one reviewer.

LG IPS237L (monitor)
-It's a monitor. If you are OK staring at it for 3-8hrs/day, then great.

Gelid Solutions Tranquillo Rev.2
-This cooler looks like it can be oriented to throw air in whatever direction is best. Make sure to choose the one that directs air where it needs to go.

Corsair Vengeance LP CML8GX3M2A1600C9
-It's some decent RAM.

LG GH24NS90 Zwart (DVD-drive)
-It's a DVD drive.

Seasonic M12II 520W
-A little underpowered for the really big graphics cards or power-hungry CPUs, could limit your overclocking in the future. 520W is right about what your system specs require, the thing to remember is that any future upgrades will require your CPU be one that is 95W or less, or that your GPU is right around 175W or less.

Crucial 2.5" M500 120GB
-The Marvell controller is reasonably good at cleaning up after itself (less reliant on TRIM to stay fast).
-120GB should be enough to hold everything you have to do all the time. A good C:\.
-Make sure to set it to SATA-III (6Gb/s) speed for best performance.

--Patrick

It's posts like this that make me shudder in horror at the thought of building my own PC.

bhamv3 said:

It's posts like this that make me shudder in horror at the thought of building my own PC.

Click to expand...

I was absolutely terrified when I started assembling my first PC. So much money invested, and so much that could go wrong, so many things I could plug in backwards or similar plugs I could cross. On top of that, the endless selection of confusing, esoteric BIOS choices that could render my system unbootable or, worse yet, bricked. I checked and rechecked everything probably a half dozen times to make sure everything was right according to the half-assed assembly instructions I had cobbled together from the Internet (because no two builds are the same, of course) before powering it on for the first time.

...in the end, it turned out the only thing I had done wrong was to wire the drive LED backwards, so it didn't light up. Reversed those two wires and that was that. Everything else went fine. Well, except for installing Windows and drivers and suchlike, but that is an entirely different story.

--Patrick

bhamv3 said:

It's posts like this that make me shudder in horror at the thought of building my own PC.

Click to expand...

Breathe. It's not that hard. It's not like you're trying to build a laptop from scratch.

Two questions (before I've even received parts! wheee!), for which I don't seem to find a good answer:
a) is there thermal grease/cake/tape/whatever you call it/ included in the boxed i5s? In most videos they seem to *use* it, but they never, ever mention it in a list of things to buy or check beforehand.
b) Placing the cooling fan: As PatrThom said, it needs to go in a useful place...So how do I determine that? Do I first not install it, build the pc, track softawareside which parts get too hot, and try to direct air there? Do I need to work out a plan of attack for the stock fans and the extra one before I start mounting them? Something I've seen different opinions on: should there be more air going in than out, or vice versa? Etc.

Thing is, most parts you can't really put wrong - nobody's going to die if I put the HDD below the SSD or the other way around - if I use the wrong bay, well, so what, my computer' won't have the neatest-arranged interior. There's two sticks of RAM and two places to put them - I know how to do that. A cooler, though? Apparently they can go pretty much anywhere to cool pretty much everything, and you're supposed to smell where the effect will be best?

To a): Most stock coolers (the ones that come with a retail boxed CPU) come with a pad or a predetermined amount of thermal paste applied to the mating surface of the included fan. Its purpose is to make sure there are no trapped air pockets between the CPU and the HSF (HeatSink Fan assembly) which would slow the transfer of heat from the chip to the heatsink. Just about anyone who uses an aftermarket fan also tends to be the kind of person who turns up his nose at "ordinary" thermal paste and gets some of the aftermarket "good stuff." These premium pastes tend to use more conductive materials (carbon, copper, sliver) in suspension, and the suspension liquid used tends to be one which supposedly will not dry out as quickly (turning from paste to powder).
Surprisingly enough, one of the best materials to use for this purpose is J-B Weld epoxy, but you do run substantial risk of never being able to pull the two apart again, ever.

To b): Take a look at how your case is arranged, and where your components will end up. First of all, if the motherboard or the heatsink come with a mounting plate brace for the back of the motherboard CPU socket, use it. Those large heatsinks put a lot of stress on the CPU socket due to the combination of their weight and the leverage applied by their height, and the backing plate will relieve this stress and help keep your motherboard from warping over time (also, try to be gentle when moving your computer, or transport it on its side so the heatsink stands vertical so as not to magnify the effect of this weight). Second, the CPU/GPU are some of the hottest components in a computer case, but you should also give some consideration to either the RAM or (more likely) the VRM circuitry (the 4 flat black plastic squares near the supplementary 4-pin CPU power socket). Most likely, you are going to have a fan mounted in the back or top of the case that is near your CPU. That fan should probably be arranged so that it blows OUT of your case, and then the heatsink should be mounted in whatever orientation blows the hot air generated by your CPU most directly towards that exhaust fan (usually this will be blowing "up" or "towards the back").

As far as air going in and out, this is going to depend on the architecture of your case. Most cases are designed to pull cool air in from the front and exhaust hot air out of the back. You know the sort of location where the computer will be used, so you will know whether or not this will work, or whether it would be better to pull/push somewhere else.

--Patrick

I don't know what kind of cooling fan you have, but assuming it merely attaches to the case I prefer to put it in the back, blowing out. The power supply is doing the same thing. Without the additional cooling fan, though, you may end up with an open vent in the back which pulls air in due to the power supply fan, causing a loop from the power supply out the back, and then into the case again through this extra vent. Putting another fan in that vent, blowing outward, prevents this loop.

There are usually enough open vents in the front that you don't need additional fans, but if you do want to attach another one, then you have two good options. There's usually a vent on the side of the case over the processor where you can put a fan (and sometimes a duct), or you can put one in the front, usually near the hard drives.

If you expect to have hot hard drives, consider the front, if you expect to use your processor more than your hard drive, use the side.

Also consider location of the computer - sometimes a side vent will not have as much airflow as desired, and sometimes the front won't if you put your computer in a cabinet with a door. Which, btw, is death for a computer if you don't add a lot of venting to the cabinet.

If the computer is going to reside on the floor, I'd choose the side vent for air inflow, simply because it's higher off the floor, and will blow less dust into the computer than the front vent, which is usually closer to the bottom of the case.

Also, spend a little more and get quieter fans with decibal ratings but still high airflow, and if possible attach them to the motherboard and use a motherboard that can control them so you can get the computer to manage the airflow, and thus the noise level, based on actual heat output rather than simply blasting them full all the time.

stienman said:

if possible attach them to the motherboard and use a motherboard that can control them so you can get the computer to manage the airflow, and thus the noise level, based on actual heat output rather than simply blasting them full all the time.

Click to expand...

See, things like this? Noooo idea, which is why I ask input on a build before buying I *think* it should be ok, though.

All the motherboards you listed in the first post have 3 or more fan connectors, and they should be controllable using fan speed utilities.

An alternate scheme is to use a vent in the side of the case as your intake (either assisted with a fan or just as a passive mesh). Then the fans in the front and back are arranged to vent out.
This allows cool air to come in the side, wash over the GPU, then over the drives (and out the front) and CPU (and out the back).
Only you can effectively decide, since you know in what sort of environment it will be placed. There are many, many forum arguments over whether it is better to maintain positive pressure or vacuum, whether to have a blowhole, or any of a number of other options. Your main goal is essentially to route airflow in such a way that cool air goes into the case, touches as many components as possible, then hot air comes out somewhere else and does not get sucked back in. It sounds so simple, but trying to simultaneously cool your CPU and GPU is what often frustrates an otherwise orderly airflow, since the GPU card itself tends to physically divide the interior into upper and lower hot zones, and the snarl of cables running around inside the case will further choke your circulation.

Really, it's a lot like packing a dishwasher but still ensuring everything gets enough water to get clean.

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

Really, it's a lot like packing a dishwasher but still ensuring everything gets enough water to get clean.

--Patrick

Click to expand...

Now, this I'm good at.

PatrThom said:

Only you can effectively decide, since you know in what sort of environment it will be placed.

--Patrick

Click to expand...

A dusty, not-vacuumed-enough living room, with long-haired people and lots of dirty shoes passing by every day. Which is also the warmest room in the house, and has the least airflow. I'm *great* at picking desk locations

Bubble181 said:

Now, this I'm good at.



A dusty, not-vacuumed-enough living room, with long-haired people and lots of dirty shoes passing by every day. Which is also the warmest room in the house, and has the least airflow. I'm *great* at picking desk locations

Click to expand...

It's also next to a giant electromagnet.

Inside a volcano.

On Mars.

Ravenpoe said:

It's also next to a giant electromagnet.

Inside a volcano.

On Mars.

Click to expand...

And this British guy keeps coming by trying to shoot holes in it, yes. You've been here?

Patrick is an awesome person. Thanks for providing this advice over and over.

Jay said:

Patrick is an awesome person. Thanks for providing this advice over and over.

Click to expand...

Our local helpdesk IT guy computer nerd intelligent man with good information and helpful advice is the best in all of the internetlands.

I don't quite get how or why he still does it, though - off the typical places like tomshardware and such, most people knowledgeable about computers tend to give up on helping the people less in the know because it gets so tedious.

Tell us, @PatrThom, do you have some masochist tendencies you're not telling us about? Happy to oblige, mind

(also, I've now received all of the pieces (except for Windows). Onwards!)

Soooo...I've started building. Power supply's in. Motherboard's in. Whoops! I've already run into some problems. Drat.
My MB has a "power fan connector". Except that my PSU doesn't - it does have a fan, but I guess it takes its power directly? Or something? The only two connections between MB and PSU are the big 20 point connector and a 4 point ATX connector (at least I hope it is - there's two of them coming out and heaven knows where the other one should/could go).
My MB is Micro ATX, while the case is made for regular ATX. Oh well, still fits. However, my case has 2 fans, plus of course the extra cooler I bought....And the MB only has one "case fan" and one "CPU cooler fan" port. So I guess I either won't be using one of the on board fans, or the extra one I bought is useless? Can/should I connect one of the on board fans to the power fan port? Does my PSU DEFINITELY have a fan connector to the MB (it would seem logical - to control when it's spinning!) and I somehow missed it? Gah!

All in all, the PSU has 4 cables coming out (and a whole bunch of extra cables and ports to plug them in, leading to pretty much everything else). Since the others are all provided as loose cables and connectors, I assume these are four I'm supposed to be using. As mentioned, there's one big 20 pin connector -that one's easy. There's 2 4-pin connectors, one of which I assume has to go on the MB since iot has a 12V-4-pin connector slot...But they're put together in one sleeve, so those two heads aren't moving far from one another. The last one's an 8-pin connector. No idea where that one goes, but I haven't put anything in yet so I guess I'll find out.
Or, since it's listed as an "EPS 12V 8P/4P", is that the one that should go into the 4-pin connector on the MB? The manual for the power unit is a very literal 1 page.

So far, err, well, I managed to screw in the PSU and MB without breaking them? I think? HALP

The PSU likely doesn't have a fan connector, and powers its fan internally. You can use the extra fan connector for a case fan if you like, or not use it at all. It's not critical.[DOUBLEPOST=1376998539,1376998431][/DOUBLEPOST]Also the PSU may have more connectors than your motherboard needs, particularly since its a small motherboard. Plug in the ones that are available, then ignore the rest.

stienman said:

The PSU likely doesn't have a fan connector, and powers its fan internally. You can use the extra fan connector for a case fan if you like, or not use it at all. It's not critical.[DOUBLEPOST=1376998539,1376998431][/DOUBLEPOST]Also the PSU may have more connectors than your motherboard needs, particularly since its a small motherboard. Plug in the ones that are available, then ignore the rest.

Click to expand...

Than I did it pretty much right, I think Plugging all the bits into the case isn't hard (at all); making sure the power cables are connected properly seems to the biggest issue I'll have...which may have more to do with me being a scaredy cat not wanting to fry stuff than with actual problems
I've found Specialized High-output Internet Talkers (tm) on different forums saying you totally should never plug another fan in the PSU fan connecter, saying it's perfectly ok, saying it doesn't actually provide power but just some info about the fan to the MB, and half a dozen other things... But I prefer asking here because at least I'm pretty sure no-one here'll give me "advice" intent on blowing my pc up in the most spectacular way possible

"If the video card doesn't fit, just use a hacksaw and cut off the extra part of the video card..."

Like that?

The motherboard might treat the CPU fan specially, but the other open fan connectors are generic and placed for convenience for the intended fan, but the motherboard doesn't actually treat a power supply fan differently than any other case fan. They are just labelled this way to make fanatics buy expensive power supplies with a controllable fan.

Bubble181 said:

Tell us, @PatrThom, do you have some masochist tendencies you're not telling us about?

Click to expand...

The thrill of the hunt.

This is not a job (though from time to time I've considered monetizing it), but "merely" a hobby. The volume of requests for tech help is small enough that I feel like I'm Making a Difference rather than Making a Living, so it is still something that I enjoy. I truly believe my purpose on this planet in this Universe is one of collecting and disseminating info, and I get a charge out of researching which hardware meets a stated need. I really get off on learning new things, and the research that I do to most closely match requirements puts me in Hot Pursuit. We currently have a thread going on about how to lose one's self, and I can tell you that when I go from page to page, from review site to manufacturer website to retailer listings, all the while with lights flashing and sirens blaring, it really gives me a feeling of accomplishment when I find what I'm looking for, or conversely when I conclusively find that something is just not possible, not to mention all the knowledge I pick up along the way. I have even gotten better dealing with the people who don't take my advice or who pooh-pooh my efforts, since after all, it is just advice, and if I end up being the only one who benefits from the interaction, then so be it. At least I don't walk away empty-headed.

Bubble181 said:

My MB has a "power fan connector". Except that my PSU doesn't - it does have a fan, but I guess it takes its power directly? Or something? The only two connections between MB and PSU are the big 20 point connector and a 4 point ATX connector (at least I hope it is - there's two of them coming out and heaven knows where the other one should/could go).
My MB is Micro ATX, while the case is made for regular ATX. Oh well, still fits. However, my case has 2 fans, plus of course the extra cooler I bought....And the MB only has one "case fan" and one "CPU cooler fan" port. So I guess I either won't be using one of the on board fans, or the extra one I bought is useless? Can/should I connect one of the on board fans to the power fan port? Does my PSU DEFINITELY have a fan connector to the MB (it would seem logical - to control when it's spinning!) and I somehow missed it? Gah!

All in all, the PSU has 4 cables coming out (and a whole bunch of extra cables and ports to plug them in, leading to pretty much everything else). Since the others are all provided as loose cables and connectors, I assume these are four I'm supposed to be using. As mentioned, there's one big 20 pin connector -that one's easy. There's 2 4-pin connectors, one of which I assume has to go on the MB since iot has a 12V-4-pin connector slot...But they're put together in one sleeve, so those two heads aren't moving far from one another. The last one's an 8-pin connector. No idea where that one goes, but I haven't put anything in yet so I guess I'll find out.
Or, since it's listed as an "EPS 12V 8P/4P", is that the one that should go into the 4-pin connector on the MB? The manual for the power unit is a very literal 1 page.

So far, err, well, I managed to screw in the PSU and MB without breaking them? I think? HALP

Click to expand...

From the top:
The fan headers on the motherboard are there to power your fans. They usually have either 3 or 4 pins depending on how much control the motherboard gets over controlling their speed. It is also possible that you may have a header specifically designed to connect to the fan in your power supply (some PSUs do have a cord for this) so that the system can sense and/or control the speed of the fan in the power supply. Otherwise the PSU fan is just connected to the PSU itself, internally, and you don't worry about it. Some motherboards have an 8-pin connector for the CPU, so it is possible your PSU has 2 4-pin connectors which can be joined into a single 8-pin connector if needed. This would explain why they are so close together. Likewise, some PSUs have a 24-pin connector that can be split into a 20+4 connector in case your MLB doesn't need all 24. It is also possible that your solid 8-pin connector is a PCIe power connector for the GPU, if this is the case you will be able to tell because it may allow you to detach 2 of them in case your GPU only requires a 6-pin PCIe connector. Micro-ATX motherboards are designed to have their mounting holes in the same location as full-size ATX boards, which is why it still fits in the case. They are just smaller (square instead of longer rectangle). Depending on your fan/board, it may be possible to use that PSU fan header to connect your extra fan, you will just need to know that when the BIOS reports something about the PSU fan, it actually means fan #2. Otherwise, it is quite feasible and not at all unusual to connect a fan to one of the many drive cables. It will probably run at full blast all the time, but at least it will run. There are a number of aftermarket fan controllers out there to help you with this, if you so desire.

stienman said:

the motherboard doesn't actually treat a power supply fan differently than any other case fan. They are just labelled this way to make fanatics buy expensive power supplies with a controllable fan.

Click to expand...

You are mostly correct. Some motherboards treat the PSU fan as a "sense-only" and so only read the tach output rather than trying to run the fan. It should be immediately obvious whether this is the case, and having a non-working case fan will not cause the computer to die (not quick enough to matter, anyway). As far as the CPU fan goes, try to match the proper headers whenever possible. If the BIOS decides the CPU is overheating, for instance, it will turn up the speed of whichever fan is connected to the CPU header but this will be bad if the temperature doesn't come down.

--Patrick

In the category "questions I sort-of know the answer to already" - how sensitive is a memory stick? I may have sort of dropped one, that went table-cartwheel-chair-bounce-cupboard corner-cartwheel-floor-bounce-floor. A-hem.
There's no twisted, dented or broken pins, but the plastic casing's come a bit loose. I know, it's probably kaput. More sensible question: since I'm pretty sure the computer can run just fine with only one stick, should I try it out with two to see if it still works, or could lead to things going horribly wrong?

(and yes, I'm lucky it was just a memory stick - installing the processor went without a hitch. If that had decided to go for a tour of the room....)

Bubble181 said:

In the category "questions I sort-of know the answer to already" - how sensitive is a memory stick?

Click to expand...

Some sort of static electricity shock is more likely to damage solid state electronics like that than a short fall. If the heatsink has been knocked loose, it might not cool as well, but it may not need that cooling very badly anyway. I'm not very experienced in the area, but I'm betting there wasn't any serious damage done. That plastic casing may be mostly cosmetic, and, if it is, then it probably took most of the energy from the fall and kept it from knocking any chips loose (which is unlikely anyway.)

Get a second opinion before trying anything, but I'd say you lucked out if this is the only component you drop.

Not sure what you mean by the plastic casing. If you mean the packaging it came with, then I would not hesitate to try it out. If you mean some sort of heatsink covering, then I would be concerned. If you do a visual inspection of the memory stick, and you notice any chipping of chips/boards, loosening of solder points, or missing components, then I would replace it. In any case, checking the memory is one of the first things the computer does before it starts up, so if you install the memory and it is truly bad, you should be greeted with a computer which does not boot (and possibly makes noises to confirm this). Otherwise, once you have everything installed, try running a full pass (or two) of MemTest86 to stress and validate your memory.

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

Not sure what you mean by the plastic casing. If you mean the packaging it came with, then I would not hesitate to try it out. If you mean some sort of heatsink covering, then I would be concerned. If you do a visual inspection of the memory stick, and you notice any chipping of chips/boards, loosening of solder points, or missing components, then I would replace it. In any case, checking the memory is one of the first things the computer does before it starts up, so if you install the memory and it is truly bad, you should be greeted with a computer which does not boot (and possibly makes noises to confirm this). Otherwise, once you have everything installed, try running a full pass (or two) of MemTest86 to stress and validate your memory.

--Patrick

Click to expand...

No, I really mean the little bit of plastic on the memory card itself - the two sides with the logo embossed on it and stuff. I guess that's the heat sink, then?



The grey/blue/grey bit in this picture; the side (the short end, pointing this way) is maybe a millimeter further open on one side than it should be.

I'll definitely run some sort of memcheck before trusting it completely

If it's made of plastic, then it is definitely not a heatsink. A "shroud" maybe, but not a heatsink. The purpose of a heatsink (or heat spreader) is to pull extra heat away from the electronics, which means it absolutely must be made of some sort of conductive material (usually aluminum). If it has been knocked loose and is touching the board in places where it shouldn't, then you should get it replaced. Otherwise, carry on as normal. If the heatsink has been damaged such that it can't do its job, then at worst this would mean you would need to run the memory at a lower speed or lower voltage so that it does not generate enough heat to need the heatsink.

--Patrick

Too bad I just checked and found it's actually metal, huh?

If you can snap it back to where it goes, then all is well. If you can't, then do the physical inspection/test run.
If you are still concerned about the safety of your build, then it is of course safest to buy another one and return this one for whatever credit you can get.

--Patrick

Well, I turned it on (no drives yet, just everything else) and nothing explodes yet, all fans turn and all lights that should blink blink So far so good.

I'm sort of wondering: my graphics card has 4 connectors at the top. It obviously doesn't need another connection to the motherboard, and it doesn't seem to need external power (since the two fans on it are turning just fine). They look like a 6-pin and 8-pin power connectors, though. What the heck are they for? There's two other plastic-covered print plate connector thingies there as well, which I assume are for SLI purposes or something, but I honestly don't know.

Aside: is there a difference between using the HDMI port on the graphics card or on the motherboard? I mean, both'll work, but since I'm only plugging in one screen anyway, is there a good reason to prefer one to the other?

Another aside: my SSD has no cables with it, and the only video showing how to connect it just plugs it into a laptop. Well, that's handy. I mean, I assume I can guess what connectors go where, but...Hmm.[DOUBLEPOST=1378922580,1378922208][/DOUBLEPOST]And an even more aside: I'd like to express my annoyance and/or hatred at the modern trend to include just a "quick install guide" and refer to included CD or, worse, the website, for full installation instructions and manual. I know I shouldn't expect a 200 page manual with my cheap-ass bulk CD drive, but an expensive $300+ graphics card could have more than 5 lines of mangled Chinese/Taiwanese/Vietnamese/Japanese/Danish/German/Finnish/Lithuanian/nKosa/Russian/Polish/Incan/Lovecraftian/Klingon, no? I mean, yes, it includes Dutch - but half of it literally isn't Dutch. I think they copy-pasted part of the Danish or something. The English is....well, better than their Dutch, at least it's all actual English words. Not meaningful phrases, but getting there. Oh well.

Hmmm. Okay then. The power cables for HDD/SDD/DVD-drives are al lthe same, of course. I have three of them (one of each). I have two cables with fitting connectors, each cable has 3 heads on it - length-wise (so not "splitting" from one head or a central node, just running along. Like Christmas lights! Are they actually in serie instead of parallel, or do they just look that way? I don't know ,but I assume it'll do what it's supposed to do). I can hook up the HD and SDD with the same cable, but that won't reach to the DVD drive as well. No big deal, as I said, I have two such cables. Neat. Which begs the question, does it matter at all which of the three connectors I plug into a drive? Of course they'll all provide the same amount of power and such - that's plain. But is there more loss/more heat generation/more whatever for using a further head? If these were data cables, I'd choose the shortest ones by preference. Now, I don't know. I guess it doesn't matter, but...Hmm.

Also also, still not using anywhere near all the cables running "standard" from the PSU. And FFS, the guy who recommended this motherboard to me can go die in a fire. That €15 or so a full ATX version would've cost me more would've been worth it a hundred times for being able to see what I'm doing half the time.

Bubble181 said:

I'm sort of wondering: my graphics card has 4 connectors at the top. It obviously doesn't need another connection to the motherboard, and it doesn't seem to need external power (since the two fans on it are turning just fine). They look like a 6-pin and 8-pin power connectors, though. What the heck are they for? There's two other plastic-covered print plate connector thingies there as well, which I assume are for SLI purposes or something, but I honestly don't know.

Click to expand...

If you are talking about the 6- and 8-pin connections pictured above, they need to be connected to your PSU because your graphics card will require additional power in 3D mode (as opposed to 2D mode). The PCIe specs say the card is allowed to pull up to 75W from the PCIe slot itself, but the 6- and 8-pin connections allow the card to source an additional 75W and 100W respectively (for 175W additional total) directly from the PSU when needed.

If they look like this, the other two connectors are "edge connectors" and are there for Crossfire/SLI, yes. Keep them covered if you are not going to use them, this will keep them from touching things they shouldn't and it will also keep the contacts from tarnishing as quickly.

Bubble181 said:

Aside: is there a difference between using the HDMI port on the graphics card or on the motherboard? I mean, both'll work, but since I'm only plugging in one screen anyway, is there a good reason to prefer one to the other?

Click to expand...

Yep. The HDMI port on the motherboard is there for the integrated graphics inside the CPU (if present). The one on the card is there for the card. They don't talk to one another and the computer will treat them both like separate graphics cards if used simultaneously.

Bubble181 said:

Another aside: my SSD has no cables with it, and the only video showing how to connect it just plugs it into a laptop. Well, that's handy. I mean, I assume I can guess what connectors go where, but...Hmm.

Click to expand...

That's what you get when you buy an "OEM" drive. There should be two connections on the back. The wider one is for power, the other for data.

It is perfectly OK to use two separate cables for this connection. Laptops usually have all the connections bundled together into one cable, but desktops split the two into power from the PSU and data to the MLB. So long as your cables will physically fit the location, you will be fine.

--Patrick

The edge connectors are what I expected them to be, and I'll keep them covered.
The power and SATA thingies I managed to work out on my own, and they're all connected now and happily delivering data and/or power where they're needed.
Good to know that the two HDMI ports aren't connected at all....Does that also mean that, if you use the port on the card, it c an't/won't use those "smart" power-down functions, switching to the Intel on-board graphics card when you're not using much of anything? Not that I intend to use that, now I'm just being curious/annoying.

Since all pieces are now in and connected, I figured I'd hook up a monitor and try it. The first message on the screen was "please connect the PCIe power cables for this graphics card", so yeah I have 8 or 9 cables remaining, but none seem to fit the bill perfectly as to what ends up where. This is starting to be more like one of those logic puzzles than actual electronic tinkering
Let's see. I have a 6-pin PCIe to 6-pin PCIe cable. That one'll take care of the 6-pin connector, I suppose, as the PSU has 6-pin sockets as well. That seems easy.
The 8-pin is harder, though. Bundled with the GFX card came an 8-pin connector (well, 7 pins but I assume the 8th is just a ground that isn't hooked up) that ends in a 6-pin socket. It also came with a bit of cable with a 6-pin head on one end, two 4-pin sockets on the other (with, again, 3 pins and an empty space, again for grounding I guess). Does that mean I'm supposed to hook it up with two cables, too? Bundled with the PSU came (a whole bunch cables, most of which I know I don't need, and) a 6-pin to 6-pin cable... where, on one end, there's a 2-pin shoot-off socket. Seriosuly, I have no idea where they keep coming up with these cables.

I'm correct in thinking it's pretty much impossible to force too much power through anything, right? [DOUBLEPOST=1378927173,1378926978][/DOUBLEPOST]Ah, apparently, EB22, whatever the heck that is, isn't the same as a PCIe cable.

I just remembered I still have an 8-pin connector coming off the PSU that I didn't know what to do with. Ah-hah! Onwards!

I imagine that most of the power delivery cords in your package come with a 6-pin end which is supposed to be plugged into the PSU, and a specialized connector on the other end matching whatever component has a plug. So make sure you have the 6-to-6 connectors plugged in the right way 'round, otherwise you may have trouble. The rest should be no problem.

I would just like to say that your blow-by-blow, stream of consciousness descriptions make this whole process very entertaining.

--Patrick

Bubble181 said:

Good to know that the two HDMI ports aren't connected at all....Does that also mean that, if you use the port on the card, it c an't/won't use those "smart" power-down functions, switching to the Intel on-board graphics card when you're not using much of anything?

Click to expand...

Unless the motherboard explicity supports this option, it wasn't going to happen anyway. Motherboards which do support something like this make you plug the video output from the GPU back into the motherboard somehow so that it (the MLB) can control switching back and forth. Otherwise you would have to replug your monitor every time the computer tried to switch over.

Bubble181 said:

Bundled with the GFX card came an 8-pin connector (well, 7 pins but I assume the 8th is just a ground that isn't hooked up) that ends in a 6-pin socket. It also came with a bit of cable with a 6-pin head on one end, two 4-pin sockets on the other (with, again, 3 pins and an empty space, again for grounding I guess). Does that mean I'm supposed to hook it up with two cables, too?

Click to expand...

The 6->8 adapter is probably there for people who have a PSU that only has PCIe 6-pin connectors (before cards with the 8-pin connectors came out). The 4x4->6 adapter is there for people who have a PSU that doesn't have any 6pin connectors, and it lets you conver 2 of the 4-pin drive-style connectors into one 6-pin PCIe connector.

Bubble181 said:

I'm correct in thinking it's pretty much impossible to force too much power through anything, right?

Click to expand...

Most power delivery in computers is demand-based, so you're not really "pushing" power anywhere in the computer*. Instead, the components "pull" what they need. The trouble happens if they pull harder than what you have them connected to can supply.

--Patrick
*Unless you get voltages mixed up. Fortunately the cable shapes/keys are designed to prevent this.

It may not be the most elegant of solutions (read: it definitely isn't), but with the 8>6 converter and the 6>6 (turns out it is PCIe both sides, I just wasn't jamming it in there hard enough ) I got it all up and working. Reason I was gone is I only have the one working keyboard for both this one and my brand new pc, and it's working well as far as I can tell right now. Which, since Win8 is still in the mail, isn't all that far. Though I was surprised at how big BIOSs have gotten. Seriously, I think my first pc had a BIOS of 128 bytes. This is 64MB. That's...More than the HD on my first pc. Damn, I'm getting old

Anyway, all the diagnostics included to check the state of connected devices and stuff return the results they should - all drives are found, all memory is found, and so on.

I'm just sort-of wondering if I didn't put in the PSU the wrong way 'round. I put it in bottom-down, because, you know, duh, but that means the PSU fan is trying to suck air in through the bottom of the case.....We'll see.

Anyway, if I actually manage to get Windows installed and all drivers and things work, I think I may actually get to post in the Epic Win thread soon....And that's been a while. Knock on wood!

But for now, huzzah! Huzzah! [DOUBLEPOST=1378932208,1378931872][/DOUBLEPOST]By the way, you two, that doesn't mean this thread's going away soon. It just means you'll be getting annoying driver- and bug issues soon, instead of fun hardware newbie questions

Thanks both for the help/explanations so far

Hijacking your thread briefly, Bubbles, hope you don't mind.

My old rig is truly on the verge of dying, so this weekend I'm going to be heading down to the local computer market to look for a replacement. I'm either going to get a pre-built machine, or find a shop to build one for me. Are the specs posted in the first post of this thread still good, three months later? Or should I be looking out for something different now?

bhamv3 said:

Are the specs posted in the first post of this thread still good, three months later?

Click to expand...

For the most part, yes. Aside from some minor quibbles on GPU choice, I would recommend that you choose Win7 over Win8, and that your processor be of the 4xxx series rather than the 3xxx series (model-specific. Some 3's still beat some 4's). However, word is trickling out about how the next generation of Intel chips will probably be incompatible with current motherboards (i.e., no direct upgrading to next-gen Haswells with any board you might buy today), so if your plan is to build something that you can repeatedly improve over the course of a couple years, you may hit a wall sooner than you expect. But if you are currently using anything powered by a 2xxx-series processor or earlier, the jump in performance will probably be worth it.

--Patrick

I've found a build online, for approximately 47000 NTD, or 1600 USD.

Intel Core i7-4770K quad core processor
Asus Z87-A motherboard
Kingston 16GB DDR3-1600 (8G*2)
Asus GTX760-DC2OC-2GD5 video card
1000GB SATA3 hard disk
Kingston HyperX 3K 120G SSD
Asus 24x DVD burner
SAMA USB3.0 case
FSP Raider 550w 80PLUS Silver power supply
Windows 7 64bit Home Premium
If I'm not mistaken, that's not a very good price for this, but is it at least a decent price? Because if I can just buy online and not have to deal with negotiating prices with vendors, who would probably happily rip me off too, then I'm probably just going to go for it. Oh, also, it doesn't come with a screen, keyboard, or mouse.

Self-built might save you around 300 USD or more, assuming there are no embargoes on components in your area. Just make sure your case is up to your future plans.

--Patrick

In the end I took that build down to the builders and they gave me a roughly equivalent computer for more than $300 less.

E3-1230v3 processor
Asus GTX 760-2GD5 video cardH87-Pro motherboard
Toshiba 128G SSD
Seagate 1TB HDD
Kingston C10 8GB 1600 x 2
Same 550W power supply as before
Asus DVD-RW

Plus a 23 inch AOC monitor, and a Logitech mouse and keyboard set. All in all, I'm pretty happy with it.

Thanks again to @PatrThom for

bhamv3 said:

Thanks again to @PatrThom for

Click to expand...

For....?

I mean, you're welcome and all, but

--Patrick

for all the help.

Shit, still getting used to this new keyboard.

First post from the new pc. Yes, I know, I haven't done anything in a few weeks
Anyway, installing Windows has really changed. The longest part was literally typing in the key; I don't think the rest took more than 15 minutes of just waiting around and picking a color scheme.

Now to install the drivers for everything and see if it all still works. I wonder - install drivers first or install Win 8.1 first? Hmmm....

A-hah-ha. Befoire I can upgrade to 8.1, I need 54 critical security (blahblah) updates. Trying to download those results in a crash. Oh, good old Windows.

Different question...Since this motherboard, unfortunately, only has 2 audio outputs, I can't use my surround system. I'd buy a sound card, but they go from around €10 to well over €150 (in the "supports 5.1" category). What the...?
Can anyone tell me what I should look for and what I should try to avoid? I'm not much of an audiophile and I rarely-if-ever watch movies on my pc, it's mostly for games and occasionally some music.

Just get a cheap cheap surround sound one then. They often use the Realtek chipsets which are quite good, though not audiophile quality. It will be sufficient for your needs.

I agree with Stienman. I'd be surprised if you needed to spend more than $20 to get a sound card that gives you surround and performs well. And this is speaking from a standpoint of working with $1600 sound cards all day here.

Yeah. Don't get a hyper-expensive "isolated audio circuitry" or whatever sound card if you're just feeding the sound into a $100 speaker system.

--Patrick

it's a $500 surround system, technically, but I got it for free
And thanks; I just don't have the experience/knowledge if there was a huge difference. If you'd told me "get one from a good brand because everything under $50 is absolute crap and worse than the on-board audio" I'd have believed that too

Coming back to this thread, still haven't bought anything new because I'm....energy-conserving. Yes. Ahem.
Anyway, I wasl ooking around, and a lot - a lot - of sound cards that specify themselves as being 5.1 only seem to have 4 "outs". This is the Asus Xonar DGX, for example:

Now..;How the heck are you supposed to put 5 speakers and a subwoofer on that thing?! Seriously - is it a different type of connector, am I missing something blindingly obvious,...?

The Green/Black/Orange connectors carry 2 channels each, for a total of 6, giving you your 5.1 system.
The Pink connector is for sound in/mic.

Alternatively, you can use the optical out to hook up your receiver and let it do all the work.

--Patrick