Champions Online, thoughts?

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GoGamer has a sale on the pre-order $39.99 and my system meets the reqs, I'm wanting to try somethin different. I liked CoH well enough but was into other mmo's when it came out.

Is it worth it? I know the open beta starts soon but hey, if I can get it cheaper I'd rather get it cheaper.

Is the character customization as good as CoH? Is there any pvp? Grind/treadmill or fairly decent leveling speed? Just curious what some of the forumites who've had a chance to play it say
 
I've been playing it briefly on someone elses account. It's a lot more conventional than say City of Heroes, but the customization is both better and worse that CoH. It's better in that you can pick your character animation style, modify their shape greatly, and have more types of costume pieces than in City of Heroes... but I think the actual costume pieces look much better in City of Heroes and it has more of them.

PvP is in the game via the Hero Games (basically a televised arena battle, featuring heroes) and through some other options. It's kinda dominated by people using Power Armor at the moment though.

The actual gameplay is quite fun, but there is definitely something up with the system specs. I have stuff almost as good as the Recommended Specs (but still much higher than the minimum specs) but it still chugs for me, no matter how I adjust the settings. I don't know what's up with that.

I really don't know which I'd recommend more at this point... City of Heroes or Champions Online. Champions is much more action packed than CoH, but City of Heroes has a much better community and is getting a lot of the same stuff when Going Rogue comes out sometime after November.
 
Are you sure it's the same, Ash? I ask because I've always found City of Heroes to be kind of choppy as far as how it runs and the control scheme to be a bit clumsy. It honestly felt like I was playing Second Life. Is Champions like that or is it more polished a la WoW?
 
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Gkbur

Gah, there's sooooo much I want to say but can't due to the NDA. I will say that Champions is quite a bit different from Co* even with all that is being added to Co* in the upcoming issues. Less Reliance on instances, more interesting powers, body types, stance types, ability to mix and match powers, and more. Personally I like both, but Champions is newer, shinier, and has a distinct "you're a hero" feel right from the beginning, while Co* lacks that sometimes.

Everything I said is available in non NDA protected media, so I'm safe right?
 
Gkbur said:
Gah, there's sooooo much I want to say but can't due to the NDA. I will say that Champions is quite a bit different from Co* even with all that is being added to Co* in the upcoming issues. Less Reliance on instances, more interesting powers, body types, stance types, ability to mix and match powers, and more. Personally I like both, but Champions is newer, shinier, and has a distinct "you're a hero" feel right from the beginning, while Co* lacks that sometimes.

Everything I said is available in non NDA protected media, so I'm safe right?
Really, I found the opposite to be true. When I was low level in CoH, I could take on huge groups of thugs all at once, but once I got higher level, I couldn only take on small groups. Course it's been quite a while since I've played, so it may have changed.
 
Two words: Jack Emmert.

Which leads to three more words: No fucking way.

(a whole lot more words): If Jack, AKA Statesman, continues to hold players hostage to his "vision" like he did at CoX, new and shiny won't mean squat. It'll be the same crap in a different wrapper. His involvement killed any interest I might have had.
 
Again...

:google:

I don't have the time or inclination to explain that which has already been discussed to death in here. Go, or don't. Either way, it's not my problem. If Jack is involved with Champions, I don't want any part of it, and more than a few CoX veterans will agree.
 
But all you give is a name. I could come up with his damn biography. Give a one-sentence summary we could search for. You don't even give a hint, just "Damn, that's an evil motherfucker." For all I know, he's evil because he hands out puppies to homeless people, who then roast the puppies.
 
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escushion said:
But all you give is a name. I could come up with his damn biography. Give a one-sentence summary we could search for. You don't even give a hint, just "Damn, that's an evil mothersmurfer." For all I know, he's evil because he hands out puppies to homeless people, who then roast the puppies.
This. We could at least use a little more to go on if you want us to google, our google-fu may be strong but we do require at least a tidbit or two of info to go with
 
I think he's lying too. He totally has the time. He is, like any good storyteller, of the inclination to leave us wanting more. If we bother him about it enough, he will feel wanted and begin to tell his epic tale.

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:29 pm --

Know what? I bit the bullet, put Jack Emmert into Google, and I didn't find anything of note. I type in "Jack Emmert trouble City of Heroes" and I found an article about how Cryptic sold CoX a while ago and had made Champions.

Goddamn, that was all so informative!
 
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Gkbur

Jack Emmert was the lead dev on Co*, he is also the owner of Cryptic Studios, so he's lead on Champions and ST:O, many people don't like some of the decisions he made on the City Of games.

Was that so hard?
 
Back when I played COH, it didn't matter that we were having fun, it mattered more that we weren't playing the way Emmert wanted us to play.

Some of us would stack 6 'power lengthening' buffs on our pets..that'd let us have pets for minutes instead of seconds. Some of us would get three pets out before the first one expired. Granted, they weren't super powerful, but they were good for drawing aggro and the like.

I would stack 6 "damage increase" buffs on my sniper skill and my electric pet. The pet only lasted a few seconds, but he was so powerful that he really made a difference in boss fights. People would cheer when they saw my pet come out in a group. It was awesome.

That all changed, and I don't remember which chapter it was, because that's not the way Jack thought we should play. He put a level of diminishing returns on buffs that meant that specialists like me would be no more, and instead, we would all have to be generalists. That month, I canceled my subscription and started playing WoW.

I'm sure there have been other very big gameplay decisions that Jack's made that other people have had a big issue with. That was the breaking point for me, though. At the time, there was a huge hue and outcry about the move, and Jack's answer was pretty much "get over it. You'll like the change".
 
City of Heroes... choppy? It hasn't been choppy for years for me. If it's choppy for you, you need to get a different Video Card. I actually have more serious problems with Champions Online than I ever had with City. It's a much more hardware intense game.

As for Jack Emmert... the problem with Jack is that when he comes to any game he's currently running, it's his vision or nothing else. In City of Heroes, he started going off on the player base when they wanted things to change to make the game more fun. When NCSoft bought the rights to run the game, they wanted to add a lot of comfort changes to the game, as well as bring parity to the Hero/Villian dynamic. Jack's response was to leave the City of Heroes project (he took some of the old team with him) and start working on Champions Online. This is why we have the phrase "Statesmen is a jerk" whenever anybody talks about Jack's in-game personality. When NCSoft complained the he was making a competing game, some of the old team left the company and formed NCSoft North Carolina, which is now Paragon Studios, and Cryptic stopped being involved.

THAT is why we're afraid Jack will ruin Champions: He's shown a glaring stubbornness in the past to take into account what others want the game to be and he likes to throw tantrums.
 
AshburnerX said:
City of Heroes... choppy? It hasn't been choppy for years for me. If it's choppy for you, you need to get a different Video Card. I actually have more serious problems with Champions Online than I ever had with City. It's a much more hardware intense game.
That depends. if you have the physics all enabled without a video card that doesn't support it, it will cause framerate problems because the load is too much for most cards.

If you have an Nvidia card, the Physx is done through the card if you have the newer firmware.
 
AshburnerX said:
City of Heroes... choppy? It hasn't been choppy for years for me. If it's choppy for you, you need to get a different Video Card. I actually have more serious problems with Champions Online than I ever had with City. It's a much more hardware intense game.
I don't mean frame rate. I mean the actual physics and movement, the abilities... It feels patched together, rather than smooth. It feels like Second Life, is the best way I can describe it. I think it's a factor of all the customization you get.
 
Yeah, some of the animations need work, but Back Alley Brawler has been too focused making minor changes lately instead of DOING HIS GOD DAMN JOB.
 
I don't know about you guys buy MMORPGs with the name "online" on them tend to really suck a dick. JMMORPGs are all the same, while I'll admit that they have very nice graphics, the gameplay from the videos I saw really look like a whole lot of same-o same-o.
 
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Gkbur

I'm guessing that by JMMORPG you mean a Japanese MMO, and I don't know why you'd say that since Champions is being developed by a team in Austin Texas and is very different from the usual Asian developed MMOs.
 
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SeriousJay said:
I don't know about you guys buy MMORPGs with the name "online" on them tend to really suck a *. JMMORPGs are all the same, while I'll admit that they have very nice graphics, the gameplay from the videos I saw really look like a whole lot of same-o same-o.
Well, some do some dont. I mean, WWII Online still has a following to this day, and the granddaddy of mmo's, Ultima Online, rocked hardcore. So not every "Online" titled mmo sucks, just the majority. Man..I miss UO..good times..good times..
 
Mav said:
SeriousJay said:
I don't know about you guys buy MMORPGs with the name "online" on them tend to really suck a *. JMMORPGs are all the same, while I'll admit that they have very nice graphics, the gameplay from the videos I saw really look like a whole lot of same-o same-o.
Well, some do some dont. I mean, WWII Online still has a following to this day, and the granddaddy of mmo's, Ultima Online, rocked hardcore. So not every "Online" titled mmo sucks, just the majority. Man..I miss UO..good times..good times..
inb4omgmeridian59andrunescapecamefirst.

I was die hard UO all the way till they seperated the worlds into Care Bear land and Empty Town.
 
Shegokigo said:
I was die hard UO all the way till they seperated the worlds into Care Bear land and Empty Town.
YES.... YESSSSS!!! UO was awesome. I loved the skill system. And I hated the realm separation... they tried EVERYTHING before that though... stat loss.... skill loss.... man did I love to PK people in Covetous! I was on Great Lakes... you? Did you experience Siege Perilous?
 
I almost left after the Karma patch. Losing my Dread Lord title pissed me off.

I still played a good while into Paupa/Delucia world but after the split I couldn't take it anymore. Care Bears running around free and clear of my wrath. :devil:
 
I used to love training an small animal like a cat or dog and have it guard an object like a door and then hide. When someone opened the door, I used to kick their ass when their flag went neutral. Oh... the ways I fooled people. I miss the good old days.
 
Oh, I had my dread lord and all and I ran with a tight crew of trusted PVPers. Players, eventually, got wise and things started to be really hard and the devs scaled the balance of things against us. While players only lost "loot", they put it against us when you were a dreadlord you not only lost loot if you died but stats/skills as well. What the Fuck? I actually had a characters and I used to love to exploit the shit out of their system.

Did you know I once PKed Scott Kurtz? :clap: He had shit for regs though.
 
Same story as CoH. It's fun for a few months, but eventually, unless you make some kick-ass friends in game, you get bored and move on. The only reason I'm even considering CO is because my old SG is moving to it.

Customization is infinitely better than CoX. It's rough for now, but that's because it's still in beta. If you look at CoH, the first couple issues were pretty awful too.
 
SeriousJay said:
Shegokigo said:
I was die hard UO all the way till they seperated the worlds into Care Bear land and Empty Town.
YES.... YESSSSS!!! UO was awesome. I loved the skill system. And I hated the realm separation... they tried EVERYTHING before that though... stat loss.... skill loss.... man did I love to PK people in Covetous! I was on Great Lakes... you? Did you experience Siege Perilous?
I don't know about Shego, but I was forged and raised on Siege. We didn't have the realm seperation (until later on anyway) so we still had a community past Trammel/Felucca. I hear UO is still going on, and actually has races with different powers now.
 
Edit: Sorry about that, somehow the server issues causes a double post.

Already gave my opinion, but now that I have time again, I will put it all down here.

The graphics are okay, they look really good when you turn on all the special settings, but look more crap then normal if you have to play in low to medium. Everything just felt blocky and underwhelming on the lower settings, even my fire blasts felt more like I was throwing red water balloons. I think I am just spoiled by WoW. WoW does not have "high end" graphics, but they make up for it with a "consistency" that comes through no matter the graphic settings, CO didn't seem to have that.

The animations are clunky, I kept feeling like I was "sliding". This has the nasty habit of taking me out of a game, since I no longer feel like I am part of the world, but instead superimposed over it. The creatures you fight had the same issues, often sliding around at me.

The way they handle the mob sight distance is also annoying, at least at the graphic level I was playing. I noticed when I got close to a creature, but not close enough to fully see them, that they would just be a black shadow sliding in the distance. Mind you, the background wouldn't be black, just the creatures standing around. This looked silly to me every time I saw it, and really took me out of the game.

Combat itself felt clunky and unresponsive. I would sometimes hit my hotkey and nothing would happen, or I would click my auto-attack only for it to accidentally unclick so I would just stand around some more. Fighting enemies also felt "slower" then I am used to, with some of them taking like 20 strikes to the face with fireballs just to take down.

It is not all bad though.

The character customization is very detailed. I don't think it has as many "options" as CoH, but I do think it has more creative ability, to really adjust every little thing about your character. I was able to make some impressive looks. Other things I like is that certain items you add to your character actually are used based on your travel form, so if you give yourself wings, your wings will spread out and flap a bit when you fly. If you have rocket boots, they will have a little flame effect coming off from underneath them, etc.. I liked the customization.

The power sets are very detailed, allowing you to be anything from a ninja, to a hulk, to an iron man, all with unique powers that overlap at first but seem to get more detailed later. I had so many options I had trouble choosing what I wanted. I ended up making my first character a pyro.

Instances looked like they could be very interesting based on the few I tried, and I like that the game seems to throw in some cutscenes now and then. The way they get you into the story was also cool, since you just start out with alien invading, rather then just being a green hero going to beat up some thugs.

I love the fact you can customize powers, and the large amount of travel abilities that you get early in the game. I was flying around on fire when I started my character, and was even able to change the color of the flying flame from red, to blue, to pink, if I wanted to do it.

In the end I don't think it will hold my interest. I am very ugly when it comes to graphical consistency, and I feel the look of the game, while great, got a bit difficult to absorb at my graphic level. Maybe when I get a better computer, that will change, but not yet.
 
AshburnerX said:
City of Heroes... choppy? It hasn't been choppy for years for me. If it's choppy for you, you need to get a different Video Card. I actually have more serious problems with Champions Online than I ever had with City. It's a much more hardware intense game.

As for Jack Emmert... the problem with Jack is that when he comes to any game he's currently running, it's his vision or nothing else. In City of Heroes, he started going off on the player base when they wanted things to change to make the game more fun. When NCSoft bought the rights to run the game, they wanted to add a lot of comfort changes to the game, as well as bring parity to the Hero/Villian dynamic. Jack's response was to leave the City of Heroes project (he took some of the old team with him) and start working on Champions Online. This is why we have the phrase "Statesmen is a jerk" whenever anybody talks about Jack's in-game personality. When NCSoft complained the he was making a competing game, some of the old team left the company and formed NCSoft North Carolina, which is now Paragon Studios, and Cryptic stopped being involved.

THAT is why we're afraid Jack will ruin Champions: He's shown a glaring stubbornness in the past to take into account what others want the game to be and he likes to throw tantrums.
This, plus the fact that he tends to be fairly hypocritical in his views. His mantra was "risk equals reward for all classes!", then buffed tankers/scrappers to insane levels (look up the old videos of them taking out AV's single-handedly) while leaving the other classes out to dry.
 
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