I'm definitely not insisting that she call me dad. It's just something that she did all the time and that stopped when the new guy came in. I know the manipulations my ex uses. She used them on my step kids when I first became involved with her too. This is just rinse-and-repeat for my ex.First bit of advice: Remember that no matter what labels you give each other or which are given to you by others, you are still father and daughter and this can never be changed.
Next, in English, "Dad" does not always mean "Father." It is usually a term used to denote the male figure who positively influenced you the most while growing up. If she is calling someone else "Dad," then this may mainly be because you only spend 7hrs/week with her.
I hear a lot about how YOU are unhappy with the situation and how much it makes YOU uncomfortable when she does not refer to YOU as "Dad." Again, see advice #1, but it makes me concerned that I do not hear anything about how it makes HER feel when you insist that she call you "Dad." The priority here, I think, is that she should feel comfortable around you and look forward to seeing you & spending time with you, and not focus on which label she uses to describe you/ask for your attention. At this point in my writing, @Celt Z has snuck in a post, and she is giving the same advice I was about to here--support her, allow her to feel comfortable around you, allow her to trust you, and allow her to open up to you, and you will be doing all the things a dad does, title or no title. DO NOT set up a situation where she feels like you and her mother are playing tug-of-war for her affections, for her approval, or whatever. That will just make her feel like she is a sports trophy to be passed back and forth. Do not make her feel like a trophy.
If anything, I'm actually somewhat encouraged that it doesn't sound like she is taking advantage of the situation to milk you for favors and such ("a REAL Dad would buy me a pony!"), which I assume means she has a good head on her shoulders and a great chance to figure out how things stand for herself, later.
--Patrick
She expressed an interest in me watching the Twilight movies with her. I've never be interested and never owned the films preceding this conversation.I'm so sorry, especially that shitty behavior your ex is exhibiting. That's pretty much rule #1 of how NOT to act when you divorce and share kids. The best I can advise is 1) keep doing what your doing and make as much time with her as possible. As she gets older and more independent, she will be able to parse your dedication and your ex's manipulation. It's frustrating, but you need to play the long game. And 2) ask her about her interests. Let her talk about her favorite shows, activities, toys, books, etc. It will help you plan how to spend your time. I could never give a damn about cars and automotives, but the way it lights up my son, I've made a point to learn and give him as many resources as I can to nuture his interest. If there's anything she's always going to need, it's stability and someone she knows will support her and her interests.
Very encouraging.She [...] wanted to share Kiki's Delivery Service with me
This is the right attitude.I'm not pushing her to say it or even mentioning it. If she wants to say it she will say it.
That’s fantastic news!!!Somehow managed to negotiate an overnight with my daughter every other weekend. It's a strong step.
Your daughter is adorable.Another excellent day with Hailey. Played (and died a lot) Cuphead together, went for a walk around the neighborhood and watched some DuckTales.
I think my biggest issue is that most of it was just people singing while standing in a big blank space and you stare at it. When you go on things like The Little Mermaid, you are in the scene and going through it (Under the Sea), and it has way more immersion and fun. The Frozen ride feels like something that they were just trying to rush out ASAP before the hype died down.The ride did feel kinda short. I wouldn't say bad, but they really could have expanded into more of the movie. But Li'l Z and I liked it okay (only because we caught it when the line wasn't too long).
But we started watching the Youtube videos of rides from Disney and Universal a few months back, and it really is fun. I was excited someone had recorded Universal's Dueling Dragons, which doesn't exist anymore and was a great coaster. And the Jaws ride, because I never got to go on it!
I mean when you remodel a ride like they did with Frozen Ever After you have to work with what you got. MAELSTROM was a pretty short ride already.I think my biggest issue is that most of it was just people singing while standing in a big blank space and you stare at it. When you go on things like The Little Mermaid, you are in the scene and going through it (Under the Sea), and it has way more immersion and fun. The Frozen ride feels like something that they were just trying to rush out ASAP before the hype died down.
That one was a very impressive ride for it's time.And the Jaws ride, because I never got to go on it!
Maelstrom was far more detailed.I mean when you remodel a ride like they did with Frozen Ever After you have to work with what you got. MAELSTROM was a pretty short ride already.
That one was a very impressive ride for it's time.
I had heard. And I love Jaws. I read the book. I watch the movie every summer. I live near the river the actual event that the book is based on. Heck, I've been to Martha's Vineyard with sharks nearby! So when Mr. Z and I got to go to Universal in 2005 for my first time, I was so upset the ride was closed that day for repairs. It was what I was looking forward to more than anything. And by the time I finally got down there again, they has closed it permanently.That one was a very impressive ride for it's time.
Rides based on movies have a choice to make when they go into creation. 1) Is it just a ride with no interaction needed from the riders or 2) does it put the riders in as their own characters.I had heard. And I love Jaws. I read the book. I watch the movie every summer. I live near the river the actual event that the book is based on. Heck, I've been to Martha's Vineyard with sharks nearby! So when Mr. Z and I got to go to Universal in 2005 for my first time, I was so upset the ride was closed that day for repairs. It was what I was looking forward to more than anything. And by the time I finally got down there again, they has closed it permanently.
Honestly, looking at the videos online, it looks like it was so fun. Mr. Z told me how it freaked him out when he rode it in '93.
It's for control. Everything she does is for control.For some reason she has been delaying our divorce final judgment as well.
Does she understand that means she thinks Hailey is the one who is infected?Ugh. Now she's saying she wants Hailey to wear a mask whenever she's in my home.
I mean, doing that would definitely demonstrate your commitment to her safety, sooo...she will just insist that I be the one to wear the mask during the 32 hours she’s with me.
A commitment but to what end? The effectiveness of my mask would fade the longer I am in close contact with her anyway. Plus it seems like it would be just giving in to my ex’s need for control.I mean, doing that would definitely demonstrate your commitment to her safety, sooo...
--Patrick
No but its a good idea.Have you suggested to Sarah that she (Sarah) get tested?
--Patrick
I absolutely see it. In fact I saw it when Sarah and I were still together. We had issues with the kids. Sarah seemed to think the issues were worse than I thought they were. But yes, any issues we had seemed very clearly based (at least partially) on the fact that it was she and I taking care of 4 young kiddos and overextending ourselves. When we separated my ex immediately brought in the new boyfriend and within a few months had In Vitro Fertilization to get pregnant with her 5th child. So not only did the problems likely persist but they likely have gotten worse.Just saying this as an outside observer - it sounds like she's acting like an 8 year old that has probably less time with her mom with that many people in the household vs the time she gets to spend with you doing stuff in your much limited time together. If your ex is complaining about a "rebellious attitude" at 8, whatever is she going to do when your daughter becomes an actual teenager? (for some context of this post, my wife and I are still together, but our son is going to be 13 this year and is generally starting to be a teen in that type of attitude for a large portion of time)
Your ex uses children to control peopleWhen we separated my ex immediately brought in the new boyfriend and within a few months had In Vitro Fertilization to get pregnant with her 5th child
I have yet to hear of the child of Hailey and Li'l Z's age group that DIDN'T do this at some point. As diligent and responsible as he has been about online learning, there were a couple of times I caught Li'l Z switching over to the school-supplied math games or the virtual library when things got a little boring. The result was he lost tv in the afternoon on those days. There was one time he lost his weekend nightime Switch privileges because I caught him playing math games and doing the bare minimum on his creative writing. But he also doesn't have a full household, so I can see that how that can contribute to Hailey losing focus.She told me that Hailey wasn't physically leaving the computer but was switching to a browser to play games. When I asked if we had her on parent controls Sarah specified that the games were the educational games on the school site she uses for her classes. So I guess she could get bored and start playing one of the games, like a kid doodling in class or daydreaming.
Hell, 90% of my time spent in meetings is this. I have spent so much meeting time in Freecell or Hearts it's sad.Honestly, I'm pretty sure 95% of all adults on telework/remote work/home working have at some point read an article, played a game, checked Facebook ,or whatever during a meeting or a boring call. I know I most definitely do.
I mean, it's not behavior to be encouraged, I get that, but it's not like playing a school-supplied math game is terrible. During some of the quieter moments at my work I was playing Diablo III on my PC just keeping an eye on my work computer so it didn't go into idle mode
When she tells you fine, you can take her because I cancelled my plans, your reply should only be "Great, thanks."Spring break is coming up. I thought maybe I could ask for a second overnight (Sunday) this coming weekend, so asked a week in advance. Sarah replied and said she had plans Monday and Tuesday. I asked if it would be possible to drop Hailey off Monday morning in time for those plans. Was told she wants to leave early (7:30am) and didn't want to rush Hailey out the door. I asked if maybe, due to the special occasion of Spring Break, that I pick her up Friday after school. No reply until a few days later.
"You can take her on Monday. I just canceled my plans. I will tell you that this is very frustrating for me that you request short notice changes and then are basically requiring that I cancel plans that I made months ago to accommodate your wants. You were aware of this schedule and if this was something you were interested in you should have mentioned it in a timely manner. I am upset by this. Additionally I am requesting that Hailey not have any electronics time at your home this weekend. She is grounded from electronics as she went off and played during school. Since you are taking her this is now a request that you must follow up on. No electronics this Spring Break which includes your home."
I never asked her to cancel anything. I was hoping for some extra time as a curtesy and nothing more than that. I don't know if the two alternate options I asked were too much, but when she shot them down I never argued it.
When I referred to the "grounding" in a reply back she corrected me and said it was a "loss of privileges" and never a "grounding". Called the electronics free weekend a request but made it a demand in a single sentence "Since you are taking her this is now a request that you must follow up on". No say in it. Just what she says goes.
I mean two days without electronics isn't a big deal or anything. I don't have as much to do at my place but we'd manage for two days. I initially told Sarah we could make it happen. But then I started asking questions about why Hailey was losing privileges for an entire week when, personally, I think a week is a pretty long time for an 8 year old.
Sarah answered a few questions for me. She told me that Hailey wasn't physically leaving the computer but was switching to a browser to play games. When I asked if we had her on parent controls Sarah specified that the games were the educational games on the school site she uses for her classes. So I guess she could get bored and start playing one of the games, like a kid doodling in class or daydreaming. After those few questions Sarah shut me down and told me
" I have answered all required questions and what you do in your house is up to you. I requested that she be restricted in your home as you have her this weekend for extended time as this was requested last min and was my time and thus has impacted my family and my agreement already in place with Hailey. Now that is the only reason I requested this of you. No further communication is required on this topic as it was already resolved"
After speaking with Hailey's teacher today I got the impression that Hailey does well, has an infectious enthusiasm, loves to read and participate, and yeah can be found being distracted at times. He also mentioned that he felt one of the issues was that its such a busy house over there (3 adults, 4 kids, and a baby) that Hailey doesn't have privacy that provides the best suitable working environment. But, with a nice set of headphones that the school is about to donate to her, hopefully it makes a difference. Her teacher was also going to reach out to Sarah to make some recommendations.
So after this I thought about it, and I wrote the following back.
" Since we are in agreement that it is my home and my rules I will let you know that I have decided on allowing Hailey some electronics time within reason during her normal visiting time with me. I have spoken with Hailey's teacher and received some good information including links for Hailey's independent learning work. Per his recommendation we're going to spend 15 minutes or so on that per day. There will also be the reading time and extended screen free times that I initiated during her last visit. You had intended for Hailey to be electronic free upon returning home from my place originally so, if you still allow Hailey to stay until 10am on Monday, there will be no electronics for her beginning 6pm on Sunday evening to begin her electronic free week as you intended. "
Sarah is going to flip for sure. Probably accuse me of not co-parenting with her. Accuse me of undermining her authority in this situation.
Originally I was going to go along with the electronic free days but then I started worrying about a few things. Sarah didn't demand that I take away electronics until she begrudgingly gave me more time. She was clearly frustrated in her tone in that email. I started to wonder 1) would she had said anything about the "loss of privileges" if I didn't ask for anything? and 2) is it possible this punishment was more fueled by Sarah's hatred of me than off of anything that Hailey ever did?
It also doesn't help that this is yet another matter that Sarah has decided she is the "rule maker" and I am the "rule follower". She complains I don't co-parent but I barely get a say in anything that goes on with Hailey's life unless I really pester the hell out of her about it.
I think I could have worded my email a bit better but, with all of these worries about what this is really about I can't bring myself to punish Hailey with it.
She wants you two fighting. It gives her power. Your response should be not to care, because outside of what you have to deal with for your daughter you are free from that manipulator.I sent the boys some birthday cards last week. I wouldn't know if they reached them without asking. I didn't want to ask Sarah so I stupidly texted the boyfriend/basically husband.
He responded to my one sentence question with a long text calling me abusive to Sarah and the kids, telling me I belong in jail, and a long list of exaggerations and complete fabrications that I can only imagine Sarah has filled his mind with for the last two years. He demanded I do not text him directly again unless it's regarding Hailey.
I don't hate this guy. If anything he's just the next victim and I feel for him.
But it took all my willpower tonight to not text him back reminding him that he's the one choosing to be blissfully unaware of my side of things. I even wanted to text him back a nude that Sarah sent me a few months after our separation (just after the boyfriend had moved in), just as a reminder to him that Sarah is never going to be completely honest with him about everything.
I don't see such a response going well though. It will just cause more issues. I'll just send the kids' birthday and Christmas cards to their grandparents so I know they will reach them.
Just bothers me that I let someone have such a misguided opinion of me just for the sake of keeping the peace.
This is through the app that is also monitored right? I think you are building a pretty good case for renegotiating your custody arrangements through the court system if so.Me: "Hi Sarah. We're a little less than a month away from Hailey's summer schedule. I wanted to check with you again regarding possibly getting a temporary overnight schedule with her every other week during it. It doesn't have to be Sunday and Monday but those days work well for me. Just so long as its not Friday and Saturdays essentially. I was looking at and I noticed that if we started an overnight schedule on the 30th than my vacation week with Hailey would fall into the every other week schedule perfectly. Let me know."
Her: " I really don't like the inconsistency and adjustment of schedules every couple of months. It is taxing on my schedule (kids schedule) and disrupts my family. I am going to have to think about this a bit more because my schedule does not just involve her and the kids have mid week activities and there is not a good day where this wont impact the rest of the kids. This also will prevent me from including her in summer activities that she has requested and I am looking into. "
Me: " the point is to allow Hailey to have more time with me. That is also something you should be accommodating for too. We all have schedules and they all need to be considered. Hailey has said she is looking forward to overnights again. I'm willing to work with you but I'd like to know you are working with me too. "
Her: " Well considering that you are not hearing my concerns and are only looking at this through one side I will say that Sunday and Monday are my worst days. The only possibility that I have are Thursday pick up at 6am and return Friday at 4pm or Thursday at 5:30 PM to Friday at 7PM."
Me: " Asking for a compromise is not the same as not hearing you. We can look into the possibility of Thursday at 6am to Friday at 4pm. It will require me to get Wednesdays/Thursdays off but it is probably the best option. I will have this discussion with Daniel and get back to you shortly. Can you also please provide me with a list of Hailey's activities and schedule for this Summer. "
Her: " 1) The definition of compromise is as follows: "an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions." The conversation has been what you want on your schedule and if any concerns are expressed by me then I am met with defensiveness, threats, deflections, and poor communication. This is not compromise. 2) As of right now she has none. I have canceled those for the week that you are taking her and she will not be able to attend the others if she is taken mid week every other week. It would cause an issue as the other children will be in the same location. I will continue looking into options that may suit this back and forth schedule.
When Sarah does stuff like this to me I often question if I'm part of the problem. In her last message in this thread she tells me I'm defensive, I deflect, and I poorly communicated. She also mentions threats, which I know I didn't there. But everything else I am not a expert on arguments to know if I did those things or not. Can anyone give me your opinion on where this argument went wrong?
Also: "You are not hearing me" is a phrase she uses that triggers a lot of my anxiety. I heard it a lot during our marriage during her one sided arguments.
Yes. This is through the app.This is through the app that is also monitored right? I think you are building a pretty good case for renegotiating your custody arrangements through the court system if so.
When we were married she had a lot of issues with me that she brought up frequently. A lot of them were over things I didn't even have control over or where I didn't even do the thing she was accusing me of.I'm pretty sure "You are not hearing me"
is actually "You are not doing what I want".
To then being met with this response, immediately:Me: "Hi Sarah. We're a little less than a month away from Hailey's summer schedule. I wanted to check with you again regarding possibly getting a temporary overnight schedule with her every other week during it. It doesn't have to be Sunday and Monday but those days work well for me. Just so long as its not Friday and Saturdays essentially. I was looking at and I noticed that if we started an overnight schedule on the 30th than my vacation week with Hailey would fall into the every other week schedule perfectly. Let me know."
Her: " I really don't like the inconsistency and adjustment of schedules every couple of months. It is taxing on my schedule (kids schedule) and disrupts my family. I am going to have to think about this a bit more because my schedule does not just involve her and the kids have mid week activities and there is not a good day where this wont impact the rest of the kids. This also will prevent me from including her in summer activities that she has requested and I am looking into. "
Me: " the point is to allow Hailey to have more time with me. That is also something you should be accommodating for too. We all have schedules and they all need to be considered. Hailey has said she is looking forward to overnights again. I'm willing to work with you but I'd like to know you are working with me too. "
Her: " Well considering that you are not hearing my concerns and are only looking at this through one side I will say that Sunday and Monday are my worst days. The only possibility that I have are Thursday pick up at 6am and return Friday at 4pm or Thursday at 5:30 PM to Friday at 7PM."
After you literally compromised the times that would work for you barring that you'd be able to switch days at work, something out of your control, following being immediately shot down with 0 other options given other than what will work for her:Her: " 1) The definition of compromise is as follows: "an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions." The conversation has been what you want on your schedule and if any concerns are expressed by me then I am met with defensiveness, threats, deflections, and poor communication. This is not compromise.
is giving me fucking whiplash.Me: " Asking for a compromise is not the same as not hearing you. We can look into the possibility of Thursday at 6am to Friday at 4pm. It will require me to get Wednesdays/Thursdays off but it is probably the best option. I will have this discussion with Daniel and get back to you shortly. Can you also please provide me with a list of Hailey's activities and schedule for this Summer. "
No paraphrasing. All copy/paste.I dunno how much you're paraphrasing but this reasonable question trying to plan in advance:
To then being met with this response, immediately::
After you literally compromised the times that would work for you barring that you'd be able to switch days at work, something out of your control, following being immediately shot down with 0 other options given other than what will work for her:
is giving me fucking whiplash.
Yeah. She got passive aggressive about that a couple of times on other conversations.This feels like she cancelled your daughter's summer activities purposefully to blame it on you, and that's really obvious from the text.
I assumed based on your previous response but didn't want to just go off without the caveat that I'm aware we're only hearing one side of this in case that wasn't the case.No paraphrasing. All copy/paste.
I feel like I’ve heard this kind of lament somewhere before.I'm pretty sure "You are not hearing me"
is actually "You are not doing what I want".
Me: "This appears to be me asking for a compromise when you have already settled on not allowing for one. I also do not appreciate these passive aggressive statements you are making suggesting that Hailey is missing out on fun because she is spending time with me."Her: "I really don't like the inconsistency and adjustment of schedules every couple of months. It is taxing on my schedule (kids schedule) and disrupts my family. I am going to have to think about this a bit more because my schedule does not just involve her and the kids have mid week activities and there is not a good day where this wont impact the rest of the kids. This also will prevent me from including her in summer activities that she has requested and I am looking into. "
Me: " the point is to allow Hailey to have more time with me. That is also something you should be accommodating for too. We all have schedules and they all need to be considered. Hailey has said she is looking forward to overnights again. I'm willing to work with you but I'd like to know you are working with me too. "
The message very clearly gives you opportunities to provide feedback and even asks you to. It asks you if this week is still open for Hailey. It says I am requesting but have not cleared anything with work. The context of the message implying that there is time to change things if you need me to."Hi Sarah,
I'm working with the hotel and my parents on a plan for a vacation week with Hailey this summer and wanted to bring you in for feedback.
I'm putting in a request for Sunday the 25th of July through Saturday the 31st (dropping off Hailey on Sunday the 1st of August).
Let me know if this week is still open for Hailey. If so I will let you know if I am approved for it."
Unless it cost you money every time you interact with your lawyer, are you sending all of this to them as it happens or financially would you need to reach a tipping point to where it would be something you'd finally just go all in? Because, dude, the more time your daughter spends under her thumb, the more likely she's gonna be screwed up unless she's old/smart enough to see through mommy's BS.I am likely going to go with the following abridged reply instead of the one above.
Me: My request for the week of the 25th was written with clear invitations for you to provide feedback and let me know if the week worked for Hailey's schedule. If it did not you could have informed me of such, the reason why, and provided a suggestion for another week. The dates were only pending (as I stated) and could have been altered. As I had made the request 3 months in advance I felt assured that you would have already informed me of any conflicts that week.
I am confident that the judge will be able to look at all of our messages and identify you as the person being difficult and who is not co-parenting effectively.
But I still have hope that you and I will be able to work together in raising Hailey but that hope is quickly fading the more you resist compromising with me.
You can start making things better by informing me of every event/activity/class/vacation that you wish to schedule Hailey for. You are required to do so anyway, so I don't see why you have been failing to do so to this point.
This will be better than me having to guess your schedule with a request, being told no, and then having to guess again since you don't ever offer suggestions to help compromise.
Costs money every time I interact. I need to make it count.Unless it cost you money every time you interact with your lawyer, are you sending all of this to them as it happens or financially would you need to reach a tipping point to where it would be something you'd finally just go all in? Because, dude, the more time your daughter spends under her thumb, the more likely she's gonna be screwed up unless she's old/smart enough to see through mommy's BS.
That's a good start, but I wouldn't put it past her to pull out the rug, either, sadly.I've saved some money and am trying to make plans to take Hailey to Disneyland this summer while the park is on minimal operations.
My biggest fear was always asking Sarah this because well... Sarah. I would likely get a response along the lines of "It would not be okay to let Hailey go to Disneyland when her siblings can't go" or some other BS reason she uses as an excuse. Surprisingly when I asked her if this is something I could plan and maybe get some open availability on my visit hours she said "Ok".
It's not much and it still isn't a yes to a particular date, but it's something.
I don’t believe he is. When Sarah and I first got together she was going to court to get him limited visits, claiming he and his family were abusive. She got me to believe that about him too, despite any evidence other than her word (the kids were far too young at the time to add anything). For a while the most he got was monitored visits of two hours a week that he had to pay for since he couldnt pay child support.That's a good start, but I wouldn't put it past her to pull out the rug, either, sadly.
Just out of curiosity, aside from the youngest kids, are Hailey's siblings bio-dad/dads (?) in the picture? Do they at least get some special time with them?
It's possible. I'm being optimistic but cautious for now.I wouldn't be surprised if she attempts to sour the trip in some kind of manipulative way. Or announces a "change of plans" at the eleventh hour.
Both I and my parents are livid. Especially about items 1 and 4.Hello, I was going to send this on Monday but decided I needed to give it some time to sit prior to writing this. I will look at my schedule and let you know my response to your request either later today or tomorrow evening. 1) Hailey is 8 years old and should not be sharing a bed with a parent. It was expressed that she felt uncomfortable and could not sleep due to lack of clothing and scratching. l It seems like the request to move to the floor to sleep was rejected. 2) First right of refusal pertains to Vacations as well as visitations. 3) Requests to call during vacations or visitations should be granted. 4) It was expressed again, like last vacation, that a week is too long and that an overnight at the longest is preferred.
It's only a "right" if it's in the divorce decree. If it's not, tell her to pound sand.I checked on the "First right of refusal" comment and it's the right for a parent to say no to a babysitter and care for the child herself.
The context here is that I gave Hailey permission to stay overnight with her visiting grandparents at their hotel on 2 nights that week. Hailey had asked and I wanted her to bond more with them anyway.
Sarah's need for control means that even in that case I need to clear it with her ahead of time.
It’s in there so I was technically in violation. But that’s clearly not what that clause is meant to be used for.It's only a "right" if it's in the divorce decree. If it's not, tell her to pound sand.
Your ex sound so much like my first wife. Every time you tell stories, I feel a lot of sympathy for you. Good on you for stepping up to do the best parenting you can in spite of it.It’s in there so I was technically in violation. But that’s clearly not what that clause is meant to be used for.
Naw man, fuck that if you can avoid it. When you talk to Rosebowl, I'd definitely mention the travel distance. But if it turns out there's good reasons for Sat/Sun, at least you'll have stories to tease your kid when she's older and has her own kids.But am I selfish to feel that my Sundays with Hailey should not be disrupted by this class if there is another option?
What the fuck did I just read? She was brutally raped at work and went back to work. And did I read that right, did that happens multiple times before? Is that why I acted like that's just a normal thing?Been dealing with some court related stuff with Sarah and I've had to go through a bunch of texts from the last few years. I came across this one that I thought I'd share in its entirety and see what people thought of it. I don't know if anyone in this group is a therapist but I would love to see what they thought about it in particular.
This conversation occurred just a few months after our separation. I could go into context but I'd honestly just like to see what people think from just the conversation itself.
Me: What's up?
Her: Someone touched me again at work. In a way I didn't like.
Me: I'm sorry. That's awful.
Her: It happens. I feel gross and am deeply unhappy right now.
Me: I'm sorry that happened. I know you hate that such a thing happens to you frequently. I'm devastated for you. I know you don't like my advice as it's not relevant so I'm not going to give any. I'm here if you want to talk about it though. I'm sorry. I know John (her boyfriend) is being supportive.
Her: Yeah. He's actually being very sweet. Not accusing me of cheating. Just truly hearing me and understanding. I was terrified to talk to him based off your reactions. But all was okay and I cried for a good 30 min. My ass still hurts but at least I'm ok. And the guys a total fucktard.
Me: Did he rape you?
Her: Yup in the butt.
Me: Oh my God. I'm so sorry.
Her: Meh. Shit happens. It just was not nice. I don't feel good. I'm sad and will get over it shortly but feel crappy. Lmao. Too many ass puns for butt rape. (laughing emojis)
Me: I'm really sorry. Stuff like that shouldn't happen at all. I hope you're okay.
Her: And I talked it over with John. Don't want to go to her cause I start my new job in 2 weeks.
Me: I didn't understand that (Her message confused me. I didn't know who "her" was.)
Her: Yeah ppl were like right outside the door laughing, talking about work. No idea what was going on. HR.
Me: I hope you are okay. Let me know if you need anything.
Her: I feel sick and shut down.
Me: Don't forget you are a good person.
Her: I'll get over it I'm sure. This one was harder than any other though for some reason. Have to process why.
Me: It is awful regardless. Please be okay.
I mean I’m no therapist or anything but I could totally see someone’s reaction to downplay it for no other reason than to not have to think about it being a big terrible thing that happened to them.No actual rape victim would EVER respond "Meh shit happens" to being raped.
But that begs the question: Why bring it up in the first place, then?I mean I’m no therapist or anything but I could totally see someone’s reaction to downplay it for no other reason than to not have to think about it being a big terrible thing that happened to them.
Hi, as an abuse victim, let me assure you that trying to minimize and downplay can absolutely be a coping mechanism. That's not what's at play here, though, clearly.No actual rape victim would EVER respond "Meh shit happens" to being raped. Nor initially describes it as "somebody touched me inappropriately."
This woman is a full on bunny boiler.
I mean I’m no therapist or anything but I could totally see someone’s reaction to downplay it for no other reason than to not have to think about it being a big terrible thing that happened to them.
I'm not going to sit here and tell you how your brain works, that would be pretty shitty.Hi, as an abuse victim, let me assure you that trying to minimize and downplay can absolutely be a coping mechanism. That's not what's at play here, though, clearly.
This isn't minimizing or downplaying, if anything it's outright dismissal. This is "I'm telling you something that should make you treat me more favorably but I definitely don't want you to make a big deal about it and definitely we should not go to the cops about it, despite that being the obvious appropriate action."But that begs the question: Why bring it up in the first place, then?
Unfortunately my word against hers. Plus having serial affairs doesn't make her a bad mother. As far as I can tell Hailey is happy and healthy so I'm not afraid for her while she's in the care of her mother. I need a far better living/working situation before I can ask for more time. But if my ex does screw up and do something stupid that shows she's putting the kids in harm's way or is clearly abusing them, I will take her straight to court.I honestly can't grasp how she has custody and you just visitation rights.
Even if your accounts are exaggerated and only half is true, she needs in-patient treatment and a lot of therapy before being allowed to try and live in open society on her own.
Absolutely. Not quite what happened but it was brought up.While almost everyone will have some bagage, not everyone necessarily has still-active drama. While it absolutely sucks for you, I can understand someone noping out over it.
Also, of course, on a first date "I have a kid, and sometimes there are some issues with my ex" is pretty much more than enough. I wasn't there and don't know, so don't take this as an insult or judgement on you, but someone spending half their first date complaining/griping about their ex can also be a huge red flag.
My guess, just from what you've shared about your ex, is that she's learning this behavior from your ex wife, who probably punishes or otherwise negatively influences her if she doesn't act like everything is perfectI had a parent meeting with Hailey's therapist today. She has noticed that Hailey tends to be always in "happy mode" and doesn't seem to ever shift into other feelings. Hailey loves playing games which the therapist uses to set up a bond with her, but whenever questions about her feelings or about certain parts of her life come up she tends to re-route the conversation. This is exactly what I've seen. So it's not just me she's doing it for. She doesn't like to open up too much about things.
Therapist's advice was to just to remain being patient with her. I told her that one of my concerns is that I'm overcompensating as a parent: spending the entire day with Hailey. Doing what she wants to do. Playing dolls and legos with her. Taking her to movies. Disneyland twice last year. Universal with a year pass. Basically worrying that I'm being a Disney dad. The therapist actually made me feel good when she said "keep being a Disney dad. It's ok."
That's a very frightening thought because of how much sense it could make.My guess, just from what you've shared about your ex, is that she's learning this behavior from your ex wife, who probably punishes or otherwise negatively influences her if she doesn't act like everything is perfect
I'm not an expert, so you know, don't rely on me, but what you've described of your ex has been very controlling and narcissistic. She gaslights people into getting her way. I'm don't think she's grounding or formally punishing your daughter, but I'm sure she sends the clear message that she's not happy if you're upset, so a child's natural response to that is "if I get unhappy then Mommy gets mad at me."That's a very frightening thought because of how much sense it could make.
I need to do it react with the durr face more than once for this:Today has been quite a shock.
To lead up to things I have known that in the last month Sarah has made two trips to San Francisco. One with the whole family (her boyfriend John included) and one time with just Hailey. Hailey mentioned to me they were there to visit her friend "Erik". I've had my suspicions that she and this Erik have been spending some quality time together, but I figured that was between her and John. Today I was informed by Sarah that this Erik would be moving in within the next few weeks or months. When I asked what relationship this man would have with Hailey, she informed me that he will be Hailey's new step-father as they are getting married next week.
I'm not sure what status John is. She claims that he has moved out of the bedroom and into a spare room in the house. She also claims that she has been dating this guy for over 6.5 years and has been engaged for over a year. Since Sarah and I only separated 3.5 years ago I asked for clarification. So now that 6.5 years was them dating BEFORE she and I got together, and they have been back together for the last 9 months now. This is also concerning, because when we were together Sarah would claim that her boyfriend in Highschool Erik would violently cut her, and threaten to kill her family if she told anyone. She says that she ended up taking the blame for the cutting and that's what got her put into a mental health clinic by her parents. That same clinic is where she met the father of her first three kids. Personally I always thought that story was bull shit. The someone else cutting her part. I think she is more than capable of harming herself and blaming someone else.
But damn. She just gets crazier and crazier. I also have absolutely no idea how her (I guess ex boyfriend) john factors into all this? She always told me she was settling for him and was just using him for a second paycheck. But I saw the love letters that she sent him to initiate their relationship. She really hooked him and made him think it was true love. She even had him agree to having a baby with within a few months via in-vitro.
I honestly have no idea what to make of all this.
I've said it before, I'm say it a thousand times. Your ex is a narcissistic psycho who uses sex and relationship status to control people in order to validate her own feelings. She'll be be pregnant with this Erik person's kid soon if she isn't already, as having a child in her mind gives her leverage to control someone. She did it to you, she did it to John, she'll do it to the next guy once her current stock start to get wise, and she'll play the victim the entire timeToday has been quite a shock.
To lead up to things I have known that in the last month Sarah has made two trips to San Francisco. One with the whole family (her boyfriend John included) and one time with just Hailey. Hailey mentioned to me they were there to visit her friend "Erik". I've had my suspicions that she and this Erik have been spending some quality time together, but I figured that was between her and John. Today I was informed by Sarah that this Erik would be moving in within the next few weeks or months. When I asked what relationship this man would have with Hailey, she informed me that he will be Hailey's new step-father as they are getting married next week.
I'm not sure what status John is. She claims that he has moved out of the bedroom and into a spare room in the house. She also claims that she has been dating this guy for over 6.5 years and has been engaged for over a year. Since Sarah and I only separated 3.5 years ago I asked for clarification. So now that 6.5 years was them dating BEFORE she and I got together, and they have been back together for the last 9 months now. This is also concerning, because when we were together Sarah would claim that her boyfriend in Highschool Erik would violently cut her, and threaten to kill her family if she told anyone. She says that she ended up taking the blame for the cutting and that's what got her put into a mental health clinic by her parents. That same clinic is where she met the father of her first three kids. Personally I always thought that story was bull shit. The someone else cutting her part. I think she is more than capable of harming herself and blaming someone else.
But damn. She just gets crazier and crazier. I also have absolutely no idea how her (I guess ex boyfriend) john factors into all this? She always told me she was settling for him and was just using him for a second paycheck. But I saw the love letters that she sent him to initiate their relationship. She really hooked him and made him think it was true love. She even had him agree to having a baby with within a few months via in-vitro.
I honestly have no idea what to make of all this.
I have reached out to my lawyer with that exact question. If I can somehow win full custody and be able to take Hailey to Colorado that would be a dream come true.Is there any way you can get more custody of Hailey? Because none of this sounds like a healthy environment for her to be in full-time.
My mentality does factor in the abuse that I got from Sarah when we were together. I know what she's like. I know that these decisions she makes are not based on logic and careful planning. They are impulses that she acts on in an effort to fuel her need to be adored and loved. It's the same reason she coaxes John in with promises of being a happy couple and even sending the poor man love letters so mushy that you'd swear they were written by a middle schooler. But at the same time she cheats on him once with me and spends the next few months after that semi flirting with me by suggesting our physical relationship can continue on the side and even sends me several nudes of herself (I think John even took one of them). I don't know if he's aware of these things. I'd speak to him about them but he's already expressed no interest in talking to me. Plus I don't think he'd believe me anyway, even if I showed him the texts and pictures.While I doubt your ex has suddenly grown up and become as modern as all that - having a former partner and new partner together in one house can work in some modern family set-ups. Neither love nor parenting needs to be a two-person deal by default, even if our society is used to it.
Having said that, obviously, in this case that's not what's happening :-P I know the type of person (and without being sexist, this is usually women) who simply can't be alone and needs to be "in a relationship" at all times - which often leads to overlap and everything that entails. And they're usually not the most healthy of relationships, since "being part of one" is more important than being in one with the right other person.
Anyway, not very helpful. No idea how much rights you have as a co-parent to ask about a person who will be living with your child. Depending on your state such laws can vary wildly; if you're in conservative enough ground a "family" setup like that might be considered enough of an unhealthy influence on Hailey to change custody rules, though I doubt it.
There are just as many men like this as well, it's a pretty common traitI know the type of person (and without being sexist, this is usually women)
I never said they didn't exist, just that, in my personal, anecdotal and purely unscientific experience, the "can't be alone" mentality seems to be more common in women than men. Perhaps because - certainly around here- women were still taught more often that their self worth and value lies in their partner rather than in themselves. I'm not saying it's some inherent negative feminine trait or whatever. Also, not at all the point of this thread or my post.There are just as many men like this as well, it's a pretty common trait
My ex was adopted. Her adopted mother was a bit on the lack of loving side. It definitely factors in to her need to be loved and never alone.I never said they didn't exist, just that, in my personal, anecdotal and purely unscientific experience, the "can't be alone" mentality seems to be more common in women than men. Perhaps because - certainly around here- women were still taught more often that their self worth and value lies in their partner rather than in themselves. I'm not saying it's some inherent negative feminine trait or whatever. Also, not at all the point of this thread or my post.
She's manipulative. She'll poison his daughter against him, then use manipulated out-of-context data and conversations to get lawyers and judges to side with her. It's a really shitty situation. The sad fact of the matter is that aside from a few rare victories, fathers are at the mercy of the mothers for access to their kids, usually.I don't know anything about shared custody but is this not a violation of it? Keeping her from you and keeping you from speaking with her?
She's manipulative. She'll poison his daughter against him, then use manipulated out-of-context data and conversations to get lawyers and judges to side with her. It's a really shitty situation. The sad fact of the matter is that aside from a few rare victories, fathers are at the mercy of the mothers for access to their kids, usually.
This is a good approach.I have emailed Sarah the following.
Sarah, I am retiring the previous two threads to combine them here as they deal with the same matter. I am letting you know that I will be enforcing both my dinner visit tonight and an overnight Sunday visit on the 14th. These are due to me not receiving my regularly scheduled visits the previous week, which was a decision that you made without my input ahead of time. After this makeup dinner tonight, and the overnight on Sunday we will carry on the following week in our normal schedule. With a dinner on the 19th and a regular Sunday visit on the 21st. You wish Hailey to be able to have choices and I agree up to a point. Her visits with me are important and are non negotiable. However Hailey has many choices during the visits such as what we do, what we eat, etc. She is 9 years old and you should not be letting her decide if she wants to see me or not. This needs to be an established part of her routine, just like school, her therapist, sports, etc.
Link's not working. Although to be honest, I wouldn't recommend posting the audio of your daughter like that.Redacted
Good point. Removed just in case.Link's not working. Although to be honest, I wouldn't recommend posting the audio of your daughter like that.
It kinda felt scripted.What was the result of that voice text that Hailey was apparently going to send you? How did she sound?
That sucks. And I'm sure you don't need me to tell you to document it for the lawyers.Today is my usual Friday dinner with Hailey where we spend 2 and a half hours together. I am not seeing her on Sunday as we alternate Holidays each year. So I made plans for us to decorate gingerbread cookies today. I bought everything we needed, spending about $100 and took the time to make the cookies in advance yesterday. I wake up today and find an email from my ex saying she "forgot" about a family planned event tonight and that Hailey will not be making the dinner.
I appreciate that very much. Thank you. Everyone here has indeed been very supportive.I regret that I've not been a part of these discussions here - I might have been able to weigh in something, but as usual the rockstars here at Halforums appear to be steering you correctly.
Re: the most recent update, this appears to just be yet another in her long history of gaslighting you into doubting yourself and your actions. She can't bait you if you don't bite at it.
You've done amazingly under some pretty nasty circumstances. She appears, through what you've shared, to be the stereotypical divorceezilla. In spite of her worst efforts, your daughter still wants to be around you and visit you regularly. She talks - hell, she communicates better with you than my daughter does with me, and we're all together! - and she doesn't appear to be succumbing to the propaganda.
Keep on trucking, dude. You've got a solid support network, and you seem to be plodding a steady course. Don't let her try and get in your OODA loop - you're doing the right thing, and it's not "BAD MAN" behavior to want to stay in your daughter's life within the provisions that were given through the courts. Stay the course, hold the line. She'll love you all the more for it when she's old enough to fully comprehend just how hard you've fought for her.
I talked to the coach on Saturday and did get added to the app. Initially my ex told me only one person each family could have access to the information via a site, but not only was that false I found out that access to the app allows you to add other family members to have access.Is there not another source for this info? Coach? School website? Other parent? I wouldn't want rely on her for anything and give her any sort of power.
Just out of curiosity, are they using Teamsnap?I talked to the coach on Saturday and did get added to the app. Initially my ex told me only one person each family could have access to the information via a site, but not only was that false I found out that access to the app allows you to add other family members to have access.
Which is a good thing I did. This next weekend there is a tournament in San Diego (which requires a two hour drive) that apparently I was only going to be told about by Sarah no earlier than Thursday.
I’m sure you’re aware, but you should probably just assume that everything you’re ex tells you that makes your life harder is a lie.Initially my ex told me only one person each family could have access to the information via a site, but not only was that false I found out that access to the app allows you to add other family members to have access.
That's good news. Once you've made an account, you'll basically be able to follow her from now on. All of the organizations around here use it, and as long as they know your registered, you should get every update.Yes.
Hailey is also with the AYSO team this year. Sarah has yet to give me that info despite asking for it. I’m assuming the app only allows you access to other team info if you are invited to it?That's good news. Once you've made an account, you'll basically be able to follow her from now on. All of the organizations around here use it, and as long as they know your registered, you should get every update.
If you reach out to the coach, they can add you. Usually the coaches will add anyone on the registration. I don't know if your ex will include your info when she registers Hailey, but that's the best way.Hailey is also with the AYSO team this year. Sarah has yet to give me that info despite asking for it. I’m assuming the app only allows you access to other team info if you are invited to it?
I mean it’s great if that ends up happening.I feel like obviously bogus claims of sexual assault would be good for you in terms of showing a pattern of untrustworthiness.
You would have to prove definitively that she knew the accusations were fake, or that she disregarded obvious evidence that the accusation was not accurate. It would be very hard to win that case.Can you sue for libel? I don't know law at all, but I would lose my fucking shit if I was accused of that.
We’re using it.Wowwww.
I legitimately think this should be entered into evidence. I'm not even kidding. It speaks volumes.
Like, not only will they not be available for some unspecified reason, but she is specifically calling out that she doesn't consider you, the father, to be "family."
--Patrick
It’s good for showing alienation and parental substitution mostly, which is what we are using it for. She’s keeping me from seeing my kid and putting other father figures ahead of me. I’m never going to argue child support.I was thinking more for things like if she pursues child support:
"Why should I support a child you don't let me see?"
"Because you have to. It's your duty as a father."
"Oh, NOW I'm the father?"
--Patrick
As a child of a narcissist, I feel I want to weigh in on this while admittedly mapping Sarah's behavior to the way my mother would think.Sarah has made getting more time, and even keeping the time I already have a challenge. Her usual tactic is making plans for Hailey during my schedule, telling me last minute, and then make me either agree with no chance for a make-up visit “coparenting is letting your kid decide her schedule. Deal with it” or having me force the visit where she lets Hailey know that I’m not letting her participate in the thing that was planned in favor of being with me, making me the bad guy
Thank you. I appreciate that. I’m so sorry you had to (have to?) deal with that. I dealt with my narcissist as a major part of my life for 7 years. You’ve had to deal with yours your entire life. It is a little comforting however to be able to hope that Hailey will catch on just as you did.As a child of a narcissist, I feel I want to weigh in on this while admittedly mapping Sarah's behavior to the way my mother would think.
Here's my advice: Be the bad guy. "Oh, you made plans? How unfortunate that you'll have to break them, it seems you lost track of the dates I get Hailey." Her tactic isn't just targeted at you, it's as much maybe even more a carrot/stick for Hailey. She gets "rewarded" for choosing to stay home when it's presented as such, with the implication that she'll be deprived of those events and family bonding time if she expresses that she wants to spend time with you. Even if Sarah is successful for the time being at making Hailey think it's mean ol' dad stopping her from having fun, it's a short term victory. She's rapidly approaching the teenage years where she'll be able to pick up on adult bullshit. Hailey presumably knows what days she's supposed to be with you. She'll see the pattern that Sarah is scheduling things for those days on purpose. As she gets older, she'll remember which parent fought for every minute they could spend with her and which one made a sick game of preventing it. Be immovable and Sarah is forced to see you, not Hailey, at "fault" for not getting her way in order to maintain her internal logic. She wants to see herself as "winning" at being the favored parent, and she knows she can't do that if she keeps punishing Hailey for you enforcing your rights.
Even if she did I think the cost on something like that is minimum $10k. I’m hopeful my lawyer has a plan. We have a minor’s council for Hailey that was appointed and my lawyer knows her on a professional level and thinks it’s a good thing for us. In the end we need to at least get a recommendation from her that I should be part of Hailey’s life and that steps must be taken to repair our relationship.It sounds like you need a court-appointed psychologist to do an assessment. My guess is that your ex will not agree with that.
Tough read. A lot reminded me of this shit too. Glad things worked out for him. I’m hopeful. I don’t need full custody like he did. My ex isn’t a total parenting fuckup. She just doesn’t think I have any right to be part of Hailey’s life because she lost control of me.Saw this story on Reddit, made me think of your situation. Poor guy had to go through five years of bullshit, but it ended up being worth it. Hope things turn out better for you as well.
I would be very afraid of what she's filling Hailey's head with. Even if she isn't physically abusive, people like her don't stop gaslighting and emotionally manipulating just because they're a child, usually they do it more.Tough read. A lot reminded me of this shit too. Glad things worked out for him. I’m hopeful. I don’t need full custody like he did. My ex isn’t a total parenting fuckup. She just doesn’t think I have any right to be part of Hailey’s life because she lost control of me.
That is the part that’s the most frightening. We Will be arguing for full custody due to that reason. Unfortunately, alienation like that is hard to prove.I would be very afraid of what she's filling Hailey's head with. Even if she isn't physically abusive, people like her don't stop gaslighting and emotionally manipulating just because they're a child, usually they do it more.
I do feel like seeking damages is the only way to recover.This is almost sounding like SLAPP territory.
--Patrick