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Court: Christian group can't bar gays, get funding

Jun 28, 2010#1

Element 117

The U.S. Supreme Court today upheld a refusal by UC Hastings law school to grant official recognition and funding to a Christian club that excludes gays and nonbelievers, saying a public university is not required to subsidize groups it considers discriminatory.

The San Francisco school's policy, which requires student organizations to be open to everyone to qualify for official status, "ensures that no Hastings student is forced to fund a group that would reject her as a member," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in the 5-4 ruling.

Ginsburg, writing the majority opinion, stressed that the school is not requiring the Christian Legal Society to change its beliefs or its membership policies to remain on campus, but only to comply with non-discrimination rules set forth in California law if it wants school funding.

But dissenting justices said Hastings is punishing the Christian organization because of its views.

The ruling means "no freedom for expression that offends prevailing standards of political correctness in our country's institutions of higher learning," said Justice Samuel Alito, joined by Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas and Chief Justice John Roberts.

Gregory Baylor, a lawyer for the Christian Legal Society, said the ruling would require the organization "to allow atheists to lead its Bible studies" to be eligible for university recognition.

Hastings' acting dean, Leo Martinez, said the ruling "validates our policy, which is rooted in equity and fairness." The school was backed by educational and civil rights groups, while religious and conservative organizations filed arguments in support of the Christian Legal Society.

While the court upheld Hastings' policy, it did not rule on the Christian group's claim that the school enforced its rules selectively, and instead returned that issue to an appeals court in San Francisco.

The Christian organization, based in Virginia, says it has chapters in 165 law schools, consisting of evangelical Christians who meet for Bible study and discussions about applying their faith to the practice of law.

Hastings recognized the campus chapter, making it eligible for office space, inclusion in school publications and bulletin boards, and travel funded by student fees until 2004, when the chapter changed its rules, apparently in response to a new policy by its national parent.

The revision required members to endorse a "statement of faith" and barred anyone who engaged in "unrepentant homosexual conduct." After Hastings withdrew recognition, the 30-member campus chapter sued, claiming violation of free speech.

Today's ruling, on the last day of the court's 2009-10 term, upheld decisions by a federal judge and the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In a similar case, a federal appeals court in Chicago had ruled in favor of the Christian club.

The Christian Legal Society's appeal cited a 1995 Supreme Court ruling that found the University of Virginia had violated free speech by denying funding to a student-run Christian newspaper.

In today's ruling, however, the court said Hastings did not discriminate against the organization because of its viewpoint, but instead required those seeking school funds to admit all comers.

A school "may reasonably draw a line in the sand permitting all organizations to express what they wish but no group to discriminate in membership," said Ginsburg in the majority opinion.

Justices John Paul Stevens, Anthony Kennedy, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor endorsed Ginsburg's opinion. Kennedy, typically the deciding vote in close cases, wrote a separate opinion saying inclusiveness and diversity are especially valuable in a law school, where students of varying backgrounds and beliefs learn through open discussion.

"The era of loyalty oaths is behind us," Kennedy said.

The case is Christian Legal Society vs. Martinez, 08-1371.

E-mail Bob Egelko at begelko@sfchronicle.com.

Jun 28, 2010#2

Dave

Good.

Jun 28, 2010#3

Chibibar

I am glad the rule is upheld. If you want public funding (in this case a school) then you have to be open to all. They can still operate, they just don't get access to the school facilities for free unless they allow anyone who attend the school to join.

Jun 28, 2010#4

sixpackshaker

Just shut down every organization on campus. Nearly all of them discriminate.

Jun 28, 2010#5

Dave

sixpackshaker said:
Just shut down every organization on campus. Nearly all of them discriminate.

If they do then they should.

Jun 28, 2010#6

SpecialKO

I'm unclear as to what's "politically-correct" about requiring an organization to be non-discriminatory to receive public money.

Jun 28, 2010#7

sixpackshaker

So the honor societies will have to take all students.
The "traditionally black fraternities" will have to take everyone that wants to pledge.
Sororities will have to let boys join and live in the house.
Students Older than Average would have to let Doogie Houser join.
History students will join the Art Club......

Jun 28, 2010#8

SpecialKO

If any of them take funding directly from the school, then yes, they should allow whoever in the student body wants in.

There's a reason why most frats, sororities, etc., are funded internally by the members or externally from a 3rd-party (like the national organization).

Jun 28, 2010#9

Chibibar

sixpackshaker said:
So the honor societies will have to take all students.
The "traditionally black fraternities" will have to take everyone that wants to pledge.
Sororities will have to let boys join and live in the house.
Students Older than Average would have to let Doogie Houser join.
History students will join the Art Club......

well. I think there is a base rule of can't discriminate base on sexual preference, creed, color and race.

GPA can be a requirement (like admitting to the school)
sex is a tricky one, but if the dorm is all female, introducing a male member to that sorority would present a danger to them (at least the possibility)
same thing if it is reverse.

Jun 28, 2010#10

General Specific

I wonder what those dissenting christian groups would think if this was switched and it was an atheist group trying to get funding. I bet they'd be hailing this decision as the will of GAWD.

Jun 28, 2010#11

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
Just shut down every organization on campus. Nearly all of them discriminate.

Sounds good to me.

Jun 28, 2010#12

Null

If they want funding from the school, they cannot discriminate based on religious beliefs, sexual orientation, age, race, disability, or gender. They can still have the club. They can keep it exclusive. But that just means they don't get money from the school.

Honor societies do not discriminate against students being of a certain type, but rather allow membership based on performance. Since any student theoretically has the potential to achieve a high GPA, there is no discrimination.

Jun 28, 2010#13

Gusto

SpecialKO said:
If any of them take funding directly from the school, then yes, they should allow whoever in the student body wants in.

There's a reason why most frats, sororities, etc., are funded internally by the members or externally from a 3rd-party (like the national organization).

This is the rule that gave the world the Sorority Fundraiser Carwash!

/salute

Jun 28, 2010#14

Denbrought

Good, by which I mean derp-obvious.

Jun 28, 2010#15

Papillon

My university had a similar rule. Everyone being allowed to join didn't kill any of the multiple Christian clubs we had on campus (or the Pagan club, or the New Age club, or the Muslim club or the Chinese social clubs, for that matter).

Jun 28, 2010#16

Krisken

My anarchist club would have been a great success if we weren't so bad at setting up meeting times.

Jun 28, 2010#17

Officer_Charon

Krisken said:
My anarchist club would have been a great success if we weren't so bad at setting up meeting times.

Or, y'know, torching stuff.

Jun 28, 2010#18

Krisken

Officer_Charon;406662][QUOTE=Krisken said:
My anarchist club would have been a great success if we weren't so bad at setting up meeting times.

Or, y'know, torching stuff.[/QUOTE]
Pfft. You would act like that is a bad thing. Try looking at it from my view!

Jun 28, 2010#19

Disconnected

Jun 28, 2010#20

Troll

sixpackshaker said:
So the honor societies will have to take all students.
The "traditionally black fraternities" will have to take everyone that wants to pledge.
Sororities will have to let boys join and live in the house.
Students Older than Average would have to let Doogie Houser join.
History students will join the Art Club......

Quit whining. You know there's a difference between any of that this court ruling.

Jun 28, 2010#21

Hailey Knight

Troll;406738][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:
So the honor societies will have to take all students.
The "traditionally black fraternities" will have to take everyone that wants to pledge.
Sororities will have to let boys join and live in the house.
Students Older than Average would have to let Doogie Houser join.
History students will join the Art Club......

Quit whining. You know there's a difference between any of that this court ruling.[/QUOTE]

But what if he doesn't?

Jun 28, 2010#22

Rob King

I'm surprised the Christian groups were barring gays to begin with. Or ... maybe I'm not surprised, because it always seems like there are issues of intolerance down there.

But it's never been a problem here, so I find it a little difficult to wrap my head around. When my gay friend from home moved here in my second year of University, he came with me to a christian society meeting, and in the subsequent months became more a part of the group than *I* was. And that particular society is one of the less welcoming Christian groups on campus. In the other Christian group that I have ties to, numerous atheists, muslims, and hindus are part of the voting membership.

Jun 28, 2010#23

LittleSin

Rob King said:
I'm surprised the Christian groups were barring gays to begin with. Or ... maybe I'm not surprised, because it always seems like there are issues of intolerance down there.

But it's never been a problem here, so I find it a little difficult to wrap my head around. When my gay friend from home moved here in my second year of University, he came with me to a christian society meeting, and in the subsequent months became more a part of the group than *I* was. And that particular society is one of the less welcoming Christian groups on campus. In the other Christian group that I have ties to, numerous atheists, muslims, and hindus are part of the voting membership.

Are we talking about the club in MUN thats right next door to LBGT?

Jun 29, 2010#24

sixpackshaker

Troll;406738][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:
So the honor societies will have to take all students.
The "traditionally black fraternities" will have to take everyone that wants to pledge.
Sororities will have to let boys join and live in the house.
Students Older than Average would have to let Doogie Houser join.
History students will join the Art Club......

Jun 29, 2010#25

Rob King

LittleSin said:
Are we talking about the club in MUN thats right next door to LBGT?

Not next door, but both of the clubs I was talking about (MUN Christian Fellowship - MUNCF, and the Salvation Army Student Fellowship - SASF) are just down the hall from the LGBT, as well as a third which I didn't mention (Chi-Alpha - XA)

Jun 29, 2010#26

Chibibar

sixpackshaker;406877][QUOTE=Troll;406738][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:
So the honor societies will have to take all students.
The "traditionally black fraternities" will have to take everyone that wants to pledge.
Sororities will have to let boys join and live in the house.
Students Older than Average would have to let Doogie Houser join.
History students will join the Art Club......

Quit whining. You know there's a difference between any of that this court ruling.[/QUOTE]

I'm using hyperbole, but nearly all organizations have requirements that block entry of certain people. All these organizations use campus funds. At least in the form of meeting space.

I was surprised by how much money the University was giving to the religious club article though.[/QUOTE]

but the barring usually base on performance not the skin or your sexual preference. Now the exception is the Sorority/Fraternity which reserve to female and male only respectively.

The honor society is base upon your performance in school. If you work hard regardless of your race, creed, sexual preference and gender, you can probably make it in.

now as for fraternity exclude certain skin color, I'm sure that is not allow since it would be discrimination, but I don't know all the club's rule in that college but it would be interesting if anyone has info on that.

Jun 29, 2010#27

Cog

Most people can change their performance in school as much as they can change their sexual preference.

Jun 29, 2010#28

drawn_inward

I didn't realize being a Christian was an exclusive club. I guess these folks haven't read the Bible.

Jun 29, 2010#29

Element 117

drawn_inward said:
I guess these folks haven't read the Bible.

I have, but Lord Of The Rings was better.

Jesus didn't have hobbits.

Jun 29, 2010#30

Dave

Cog said:
Most people can change their performance in school as much as they can change their sexual preference.

Bullshit. You can't become straight by putting down the bong and studying. I've known people who buckled down and improved their grades and people who burned out & had their grades slip.

Jun 29, 2010#31

SpecialKO

Dave said:
Bullshit. You can't become straight by putting down the bong and studying.

No, but you may be able to brainwash him into faking it if he studies enough paintings by Georgia O'Keefe.

Jun 29, 2010#32

Chibibar

Dave;407015][QUOTE=Cog said:
Most people can change their performance in school as much as they can change their sexual preference.

Jun 29, 2010#33

drawn_inward

B.T.;407009][QUOTE=drawn_inward said:
I guess these folks haven't read the Bible.

I have, but Lord Of The Rings was better.

Jesus didn't have hobbits.[/QUOTE]

Jesus had twelve disciples. Bilbo had thirteen dwarfs. Almost there.

Jun 29, 2010#34

GasBandit

Chibibar;407057][QUOTE=Dave;407015][QUOTE=Cog said:
Most people can change their performance in school as much as they can change their sexual preference.

Bullshit. You can't become straight by putting down the bong and studying. I've known people who buckled down and improved their grades and people who burned out & had their grades slip.[/QUOTE]
There are many way to study. Many school will accommodate students with different learning disabilities. Heck, You be surprise how much a person can learn if they just turn away all the distraction. I use to have radio going, TV going and all other stuff while reading a book. I'm sure if I buckle down and actually truly study, I would have a better grade.[/QUOTE]

You probably were keenly motivated, though...

Jun 29, 2010#35

Officer_Charon

drawn_inward;407067][QUOTE=B.T.;407009][QUOTE=drawn_inward said:
I guess these folks haven't read the Bible.

I have, but Lord Of The Rings was better.

Jesus didn't have hobbits.[/QUOTE]

Jesus had twelve disciples. Bilbo had thirteen dwarfs. Almost there.

[/QUOTE]

Thought I couldn't have laughed harder at Amy's comment.

Thank you, @drawn_inward *grins*

Jun 29, 2010#36

Chibibar

GasBandit;407070][QUOTE=Chibibar;407057][QUOTE=Dave;407015][QUOTE=Cog said:
Most people can change their performance in school as much as they can change their sexual preference.

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