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http://www.geeknative.com/25222/wotc-to-announce-dungeons-and-dragons-5/

Been hearing a lot about this lately but it's all be conjecture and rumor. Now it seems the rumors may be founded.

It looks like 5e will be almost like an open sourced game. Not sure how I feel about this, but I'm glad I got rid of all my 4e stuff.

Oh, and it specifically mentions how Pathfinder has been kicking ass due to 4e sucking.
Added at: 10:09
Another source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/a...s-dragons-remake-uses-players-input.html?_r=2

Crowdsourcing the rules of d&d sounds like a pretty bad idea.

I actually liked 4e until they started basing themselves more on "Essentials" in order to be "easier". Though I was playing Living Forgotten Realms, and basically stopped when they started fucking around with the rules for that as well.

People didn't really like our last set of new rules and seemed to flock to a system that basically used our old rules in droves. WHAT WE NEED IS NEW NEW RULES! NEWER THAN THE LAST! ONE THAT REQUIRES THE PURCHASE OF NEW BOOKS!

http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/?pref_tab=group

WotC Group for possibly getting into playtesting.

Reading the first three comments already shows what kind of mess asking the community for help with the rules is going to be.

One of them is probably mine.
Added at: 10:38
Nope. I'm on Page #2 already.

These guys are fucken dumb as fuck. It's like... their totally winging it while shoveling bags of money into their pockets.

Still feel 4th wasn't as bad as some people claim as it was and is great for new comers to the gendre... it's simply the shitty concepts they keep coming up with, releasing untested shit, adding more and more and more and amore classes/races with little to no testing just for the sake of selling "the new book".

Bastards.

I basically got out of D&D when 2nd edition pretty much became... HE WITH THE MOST MONEY TO BUY THE ESSENTIAL GUIDES WINS.

I just love the fact that the 5e was announced and they still don't have the electronic tools they promised BEFORE printing 4d...

Beta for the VT is apparently out and it sucks ass. That's what I hear at least.

VT?

Oh virtual table.

Ya I tested it.

It was very VERRRY alpha.

I haven't played 4e. I've played 2nd edition and 3.5, and I enjoyed both, though they are different experiences. I love Pathfinder, because it is a genuinely improved version of 3.5. I can't say that 4e is a bad system, and I think it can provide a fun gaming experience as long as no one's going in with expectations for something it's not meant to be.

I don't really have anything to say about 5e, except that it seems to be coming rather soon on the heels of 4e and a lot of players are probably going to feel burned at having to get a new set of rules.

And...signed up.

"Our mission is to ensure that D&D enters its next 40 years as a vibrant, growing, and exciting game."

... continues to be profitable for us...

stienman said:

"Our mission is to ensure that D&D enters its next 40 years as a vibrant, growing, and exciting game."

... continues to be profitable for us...

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And if it continues to be profitable, they'll keep producing it. Doing things for profit isn't necessarily bad, but doing short-sighted things for short term profit that trash the long-term market, that is bad. It's too early to say which this is going to be, since they haven't actually done anything for certain yet, other than make an announcement.

They know that 4e was a dismal failure in both sales and retention. The system was largely disliked and the promised electronic toolsets never materialized amid broken promises and half-assed releases.

The only problem I see with the new way they want to do 5e is too many bosses and not enough workers.

One thing that will never exist again is the open license like 3.5 had which allowed for the huge 3rd party support and is to thank for the very existence of Pathfinder.

Meh, i'll just wait 2 years for 6th edition...

Null said:

I haven't played 4e. I've played 2nd edition and 3.5, and I enjoyed both, though they are different experiences. I love Pathfinder, because it is a genuinely improved version of 3.5. I can't say that 4e is a bad system, and I think it can provide a fun gaming experience as long as no one's going in with expectations for something it's not meant to be.

I don't really have anything to say about 5e, except that it seems to be coming rather soon on the heels of 4e and a lot of players are probably going to feel burned at having to get a new set of rules.

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Well if Pathfinder was 4e and 4e was Pathfinder I strongly believe that both systems would be doing fine, though I doubt Pathfinder would be doing as well as it is currently.

I think the only reason I care about this news is because of the name. My gaming group uses Pathfinder when we play fantasy games now, and it's great. Still it's Dungeons & Dragons so I'll pay attention.

The idea of everyone getting at-will powers that scale with levels was pretty good, i hope they keep it...

I'm still waiting for a 4E PC RPG to have an actual opinion about the rest of it...

I played the board game based on those drow books (I admit, I can't spell his name). It was surprisingly fun and crazy difficult. We never one once, but it was still a blast, in that insane grind kind of way.

I'm ashamed to admit i can spell his name... two z's and all.

But imo the original trilogy was pretty entertaining... also, not focused solely on him...

Drizzt Do'Urden if I recall correctly, and yeah the first three books were great, the first I think 6 were overall decent but after awhile they went down hill when Slvatore had too many character shields on people.

Also, the whole Catti-brie thing was annoying, as it was obvious he realised he only hooked her up with Wulfgar because they where both humans and then tried to autocorrect too much while using another boring cliche in hooking her up with the now protagonist...

I for one like this announcement. They are hoping to generate customer support by outsourcing product testing to them. Love that idea.

I just hope it doesn't suck.

No version of D&D has ever sucked.

The "Revise, Reboot, Resell!" business model has always suckes.

This will most likely continue with D&D 4s

I'm going to disagree with your opinion that no version has sucked and leave it at that.

Revise, Reboot, Resell is the normal business model for most RPGs, so I'm fine with wotc doing it. Usually it leads to tighter rulesets. Compare Burning Wheel to Mouse Guard.

I'm still gonna invest in Pathfinder...

Allen who is Quiet said:

I'm going to disagree with your opinion that no version has sucked and leave it at that.

Revise, Reboot, Resell is the normal business model for most RPGs, so I'm fine with wotc doing it. Usually it leads to tighter rulesets. Compare Burning Wheel to Mouse Guard.

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How long until 5th edition is ditched?

1st - 1974-1989
2nd - 1989-2000
3rd - 2000-2008
4th - 2008-2012

Frankie Williamson said:

How long until 5th edition is ditched?

1st - 1974-1989
2nd - 1989-2000
3rd - 2000-2008
4th - 2008-2012

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For that answer, first I'm going to revise your timeline a bit. Editions start getting counted with AD&D first edition, splitting 3rd into 3.0 and 3.5, and since I have no clue when 5th edition is actually going to be released, leaving that one open-ended.

1st - 1978-1989
2nd- 1989-200
3.0- 2000-2003
3.5- 2003-2008
4- 2008-

Since they announced 5th edition in 2012, they're either going for a late 2012 release or a 2013 release. Either way, it means that 4th will have had about the same lifespan as 3.5, lasting 5 years before the next edition. So 5th edition is probably going to get ditched around 2017 or 2018.

Allen who is Quiet said:

3.0- 2000-2003
3.5- 2003-2008

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Oh c'mon, 3.5 was less change then D&D Essentials...

WOC- "Uh-oh everyone playing DnD has purchased all the essential books.... quick shift a few rules around and start releasing them all as 5th edition!"

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/02410000

First Edition Mother Fuckers!

That's first edition AD&D, not reprints of the original white box materials, just for clarification.

That's a lot of money for a 100 page reprinting of nearly unusable material.

What's going to matter for me is whether, regardless of what they say right now, they go to the fans for ideas or feedback.

Feedback is awesome. They should be doing that. Feedback can make crappy things good and good things better.

Ideas is a terrible plan. They will be bombarded by noise, most of it won't be remotely useable, and everyone who gets their idea ignored will be bitter while those whose ideas made it in will get pissed everytime WotC doesn't acknowledge them as the true designers of the game.

All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.

Okay, so I've had a chance to look at this stuff fairly in-depth. I like it. A lot. You know why? Because it's basically 3.5e with a few other things from 4e thrown in (advantage/disadvantage). Seriously.

My advice? If you have 3.5 books keep them. If you have Pathfinder keep them. They are pretty much compatible with the new 5e.

I'm not buying these books. I'll play Pathfinder instead.

PM me if you want a look at the 5e playtest docs. I have them stored in a shared Dropbox folder.[DOUBLEPOST=1400520605,1400520305][/DOUBLEPOST]Thanks, @Covar!

I hadn't noticed it was a locked thread.

I shall now undo your rating, and go back to reading the Inner Sea Gods book from Paizo.

Oh ho! I thought you guys were talking about this today!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...Product-Line-Release-Dates-and-Details-Update

I saw that, which is why I made my update post. I'm offering people the ability to look at the playtest source material to make up their minds about purchasing another $400 worth of books that are nothing more than reworkings of a game written 20 years ago.[DOUBLEPOST=1400531585,1400531489][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, they again want you to pay a subscription to DDi to get any of the tools like a character generator & stuff. No way in hell I'd ever do that again. Last time they promised the moon and didn't even give us a small asteroid.

Live tabletop my ass, you lying bait-n-switch pieces of shit.

Dave said:

Live tabletop my ass, you lying bait-n-switch pieces of shit.

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This.

I can't believe they haven't gotten around to making that a reality.

The good news is that there are some app/games doing this now, so online gameplay will be better than gametable used to be.

I won't buy the books but I'll try out some free PDFs and see what the game is all about.

They promise the world and didn't deliver shit other than new races/crap that no one needed instead of doing what was needed.

We'll see if they learnt their lesson.[DOUBLEPOST=1400535545,1400535500][/DOUBLEPOST]When is it being released officially?

Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set (July 15, 2014); Fantasy Roleplaying Fundamentals; $19.99; Will include six dice, a 64-page rulebook with adventure, rules for characters levels 1-5, and 5 pregenerated characters.

Player's Handbook (August 19, 2014); Core Rulebook; $49.95;

Monster Manual (September 17, 2014); Core Rulebook $49.95;

Dungeon Master's Guide (November 18, 2014); Core Rulebook $49.95

Pass.

DM's book is 3 months later? Holy shit. All 3 is $150

Jay said:

DM's book is 3 months later? Holy shit. All 3 is $150

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And this is why so many people choose to... 'acquire' instead.

I don't plan to buy this. I don't know if it's a good game or not, it might be. But the group I game with is fine with 2E, which they have all the books for, so that's what we play. I have Pathfinder, so if we wanna play that, we can. I just can't justify spending that much money on a game I'm unlikely to play.

Ravenpoe said:

And this is why so many people choose to... 'acquire' instead.

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Also, how exactly are AD&D games done? I mean the DM book comes a 3 whole months after the player's book.
So, how exactly will the DM know exactly what to do and have the tools needed to succeed in his game planning?

Ravenpoe said:

And this is why so many people choose to... 'acquire' instead.

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Man, as a player of Warhammer, 50 bucks for a large hardcover book feels like 10000% reasonable.

Frank said:

Man, as a player of Warhammer, 50 bucks for a large hardcover book feels like 10000% reasonable.

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Good point. 7th edition's gotta feel like a kick in the junk right now.

Jay said:

Also, how exactly are AD&D games done? I mean the DM book comes a 3 whole months after the player's book.
So, how exactly will the DM know exactly what to do and have the tools needed to succeed in his game planning?

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They expect you to buy the starter set, which probably has the bare bones rules you need to play.

Yeah, I'm "acquiring" these digitally. Books should be $25-30 each tops.

Honestly, you don't need the DMG to run games. It's useful if you want more background but you can get everything you need to know generally from the PHB and Monster Manual.

Dei said:

Honestly, you don't need the DMG to run games. It's useful if you want more background but you can get everything you need to know generally from the PHB and Monster Manual.

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The monster manual, which comes out a month after the player's guide?

Dei said:

Honestly, you don't need the DMG to run games. It's useful if you want more background but you can get everything you need to know generally from the PHB and Monster Manual.

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Unless you plan on using magical items, which are apparently only in the DMG.

Dave said:

The monster manual, which comes out a month after the player's guide?

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If you're right about it being compatible with 3.5, then either a 3.0 or 3.5 monster manual will cover you until the new one comes out. If you have an iPad, then you can get the uFisk PFR app and get each Pathfinder bestiary (3.5 compatible) for $1 and have it be totally legal, just minus the pictures, where are in abundance online.

That's a lot of work for players.

AshburnerX said:

They expect you to buy the starter set, which probably has the bare bones rules you need to play.

Yeah, I'm "acquiring" these digitally. Books should be $25-30 each tops.

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Crazy idea, instead of being a cancer on the community why don't you just not play the game? Or even better, go find another game you're willing to pay for.

Covar said:

Crazy idea, instead of being a cancer on the community why don't you just not play the game? Or even better, go find another game you're willing to pay for.

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Well that's rough. I'm not willing to pay for the hardcover until I know what I'm going to get, either. So I'd probably get them digitally as well to read them. If I then decided it would be something I wanted to buy and it was different than 3.5 or Pathfinder, then I'd pony up the dough...once all the books are out.

If he got them digitally and used them, there's a chance that either he'd buy the addon books or some of his players might purchase them. So just because he's getting them one way doesn't mean it'll necessarily cost the company.

Dave said:

Well that's rough. I'm not willing to pay for the hardcover until I know what I'm going to get, either. So I'd probably get them digitally as well to read them. If I then decided it would be something I wanted to buy and it was different than 3.5 or Pathfinder, then I'd pony up the dough...once all the books are out.

If he got them digitally and used them, there's a chance that either he'd buy the addon books or some of his players might purchase them. So just because he's getting them one way doesn't mean it'll necessarily cost the company.

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You rebel scum.

If a person feels the books are priced higher than they're willing to pay for it, (warning: radical idea) they don't have to have them. Not playing fifth edition, or waiting to look at a friend's copy, purchasing the starter box, listening/reading about the new system from people who have played it, or sticking to your current system is not going to result in your death. We're not talking about a life necessity, it's an entertainment product of which there plenty of other options out there for them to spend their time on.

Covar said:

If a person feels the books are priced higher than they're willing to pay for it, (warning: radical idea) they don't have to have them. Not playing fifth edition, or waiting to look at a friend's copy, purchasing the starter box, listening/reading about the new system from people who have played it, or sticking to your current system is not going to result in your death. We're not talking about a life necessity, it's an entertainment product of which there plenty of other options out there for them to spend their time on.

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True, but it's also not going to lessen your experience or weaken the role playing community if he does get it in the way he described. Not quite sure why this is upsetting you so much.

Krisken said:

True, but it's also not going to lessen your experience or weaken the role playing community if he does get it in the way he described. Not quite sure why this is upsetting you so much.

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And I would agree with him if this was some smallish company who relies on this money. Hasbro is a multi-national billion dollar company who could give a shit about the players. DDi taught me that. They broke their promises to me THAT I PAID FOR when 4e rolled out. I feel not the least bit sorry if people are skeptical of them this time. They earned this skepticism.

Yeah, I'm "acquiring" these digitally. Books should be $25-30 each tops.

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^ That attitude has nothing to do with the size of WotC and everything to do with worthless self-entitlement.

Dave said:

And I would agree with him if this was some smallish company who relies on this money. Hasbro is a multi-national billion dollar company who could give a shit about the players. DDi taught me that. They broke their promises to me THAT I PAID FOR when 4e rolled out. I feel not the least bit sorry if people are skeptical of them this time. They earned this skepticism.

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I tend toward the Neil Gaiman approach to digital piracy.



"Nobody who would have bought your book is not buying it because they can find it for free. What you're actually doing is advertising, you're reaching more people."

Covar said:

Crazy idea, instead of being a cancer on the community why don't you just not play the game? Or even better, go find another game you're willing to pay for.

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Go fuck yourself. Cancer on the community? I have books and materials stretching back to first edition that I've bought with cash, sitting along side OTHER games I've bought. I've been an avid collector of these games for 15 years and it's only NOW that I'm hesitant to buy a system that I may not need. Seriously, go fuck yourself and the high horse you rode in on because it's attitudes like yours that keep people from getting into our hobby.

Covar said:

^ That attitude has nothing to do with the size of WotC and everything to do with worthless self-entitlement.

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Shitty business practices (such as making the BASE REQUIREMENTS to a pen and paper product be $150) are not to be encouraged and I'd be more than willing to pay if they had set it at a more reasonable price. I'll be more than happy to buy the physical copies when the price drops in a few months but until then they'll have to settle for getting getting money from supplements instead.

I'm on your side in this, Ash. Still, please play nice. I totally get your response and think that the cancer comment was out of line as well.

I see what @Covar is saying, but I'm in almost complete agreement with you in this. Hasbro has wasted any trust or caring I had.

@AshburnerX I apologize for the harsh comment, Piracy is a pet peeve of mine (90% of it is pointless and just self-entitlement). Nerves get struck when I see people complain about something, then go announce that they're going to pirate it (see games, comics, sneaking into movies, etc.). Especially since there's so much good material out there.

Covar said:

@AshburnerX I apologize for the harsh comment, Piracy is a pet peeve of mine (90% of it is pointless and just self-entitlement). Nerves get struck when I see people complain about something, then go announce that they're going to pirate it (see games, comics, sneaking into movies, etc.). Especially since there's so much good material out there.

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I understand this and respect this. I just really didn't appreciate being called that after supporting D&D with my money since I was 14 years old. I'm just really tired of Hasbro's shit right now... it's like every maker in the industry is trying to fuck over their most loyal customers right now.

AshburnerX said:

I understand this and respect this. I just really didn't appreciate being called that after supporting D&D with my money since I was 14 years old. I'm just really tired of Hasbro's shit right now... it's like every maker in the industry is trying to fuck over their most loyal customers right now.

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Except Pathfinder, unless you know something I don't.

AshburnerX said:

I understand this and respect this. I just really didn't appreciate being called that after supporting D&D with my money since I was 14 years old. I'm just really tired of Hasbro's shit right now... it's like every maker in the industry is trying to fuck over their most loyal customers right now.

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coughgamescoughworkshopcough

I know @Covar has already apologized and said it's a pet peeve, but I so rarely get to post this

http://media.wizards.com/downloads/dnd/DnDBasicRules.pdf

Looks good thus far.