Export thread

Why, oh, why did they ever replace Thomas Jane as the Punisher?

Bowielee said:

Why, oh, why did they ever replace Thomas Jane as the Punisher?

Click to expand...

They blamed him for the first movie not doing well, rather than a weak script and terrible marketing.

He was the bright spot of the first one. Really, I'd blame Travolta more than Jane for the failure of the first film.

Unfortunately, though, at this point it would be insane to even try to make another Punisher film unless they tied it into the main Marvel movie universe (has Marvel designated a reality for the movies yet?).

I agree, I really liked Jane in the first one.

Oh, and the rights to the Punisher just reverted back to Marvel... so it could happen.

Fourth time's the charm?

Even though it wasn't the better of the two, I did dig Punisher: War Zone. I thought whatshisname felt more like Frank Castle because he had that grizzled, fought-in-a-war look to him. If the rest of the movie could have been less cartoonish, it might've worked.

But yeah, this?

Dear Marvel,

Let these guys make a Punisher movie. NOW. Just...give them the ball, a small but respectable budget ($30 mil, I say; the first Thomas Jane one was only $33), and let them run with it. Guaranteed that Thomas Jane is a big enough fan to do it right.

Also, I don't care how bad a movie is, I will always love Ron Perlman in it. Season of the Witch comes to mind.

As far as establishing Punisher within the Marvel U, maybe they could tie it in with a Marvel Knights line of movies, mostly separate from Avengers? The more street-level characters? They'd have to get the rights for Daredevil back, as well, though.

I heard a rumor that Marvel wants to do a TV property with the Punisher. Take out most of the blood, and it could work in a grittier Burn Notice kind of way.

Honestly, as much as I do like The Punisher in general (he's probably not even in my top 20 or even 50 favourite comic characters), he's kind of a one-note character. It's almost always the same story with him every time. Find criminals, hunt criminals, kill criminals. He's a very basic, archetypal character akin to an 80's action or revenge movie character.

Basically, because of that, I don't really see a TV series really working. I see how it would play out:
-Pilot/first episode shows happy life, then family gets gunned down at the end.
-Each episode, he hunts down a different part of the mafia family responsible for his family's murder.
-Eventually gets to the top of the order and kills them.

And...then what? See, that's my problem with Punisher. He doesn't ever really change as a character. He just murders bad dudes. I wouldn't even say his mythos has been changed or upgraded like other comic book characters have. He's basically the same as he was from his creation, only with a much more limited amount of stories to tell.

Batman has the same issues and he's going strong after 70 years...

But Frank branched out and took on other criminals and masked vigilantes. Just street level doing the rightish thing.

Yeah, but see, Batman's mythos is much richer and has been expanded upon since his creation. He's not the same gun-toting, purple glove-wearing vigilante that he started as. Plus, he has a much, much, much wider array of villains and supporting characters.

Punisher...does not. He's got, what? Jigsaw and The Russian? His villains are always mob-related. Anyone else he fights, it's heroes like Spidey or Daredevil. He's a bigger loner than Batman, too, so he's rarely had anything in the way of a supporting cast. If he did, it didn't last.

What I'm saying is that Punisher is still a very limited character compared to many other comic characters.

There is also the fact that any way you slice it, even if he's killing criminals, Frank Castle is a mass murderer that rivals most villains in the Marvel universe in sheer lives taken.

It's kind of hard to write him as a relatable character after a while because, frankly, killing that many people means you enjoy it on some level.

Heh. "Frankly."

All the time I was thinking, "Why cant this be Clive Owen?" and at the end..."oh,it's a Punisher movie".

Slightly NSFW - a boob is shown.

ThatNickGuy said:

Yeah, but see, Batman's mythos is much richer and has been expanded upon since his creation. He's not the same gun-toting, purple glove-wearing vigilante that he started as. Plus, he has a much, much, much wider array of villains and supporting characters.

Punisher...does not. He's got, what? Jigsaw and The Russian? His villains are always mob-related. Anyone else he fights, it's heroes like Spidey or Daredevil. He's a bigger loner than Batman, too, so he's rarely had anything in the way of a supporting cast. If he did, it didn't last.

What I'm saying is that Punisher is still a very limited character compared to many other comic characters.

Click to expand...

Almost certainly agree, throw in the fact that most Punisher fans are in it for the murderporn and you get interesting takes on the character (See Greg Rucka's current run) selling poorly to the point that what could be a very interesting character just winds up a poor mans Dexter.[DOUBLEPOST=1342799299][/DOUBLEPOST]Forgot to talk about #dirtylaundry. If the Thomas Jane movie had been like that it would have been awesome, and I agree with everyone else, that movies problems weren't Thomas Jane, who was easily the highlight. Movie was a little rediculous in the action (shatters bones with ease using the indestructible Jack bottle ), but for a 10 minute fan film (pretty sure it's not a viral marketing thing) it's excellent. Certainly better than the 3 actual Punisher movies.

Actually that was the most realistic use of a bottle in a fight scene, ever. Granted arms don't fly apart with a gentle stroke, but a whiskey bottle is not going to shatter on a much softer skull.

sixpackshaker said:

Actually that was the most realistic use of a bottle in a fight scene, ever. Granted arms don't fly apart with a gentle stroke, but a whiskey bottle is not going to shatter on a much softer skull.

Click to expand...

I know, but it was so inconsistent with the rest of the fight, it came across as unrealistic and out of place. It goes back to being willing to believe one thing. If with one small stroke the bone can be broken to the point of exposure, the bottle should shatter. If they kept the rest of the fight more grounded the bottle not breaking wouldn't have been a major issue, despite the fact that Hollywood tells us that glass bottles easily shatter at will.

GasBandit said:

Slightly NSFW - a boob is shown.

Click to expand...

Hey, Oglaf was slightly amusing in the past. I'd forgotten about that.

I think it would be hard to write a Punisher story without him, on some level, being the real villain. Which could make one hell of a show. Just look at Breaking Bad.

That was fantastic. As stated previously this is better than the first three movies. While it is true the Punisher is a one note character you can still create a great movie. Look at Man on Fire.

Espy said:

I think it would be hard to write a Punisher story without him, on some level, being the real villain. Which could make one hell of a show. Just look at Breaking Bad.

Click to expand...

You should check out the trades of Rucka's run. Frank isn't quite the villian but he certainly isn't a hero. Rucka manages to find people worse than Frank for him to hunt, and really writes him a bit like a horror movie slasher out to stop criminals. Largely emotionless and dead inside.

Which sounds cool. It makes you wonder how he can exist in the marvel universe with 1 superhero for every 5 people though. You would think at some point at least 1 or 2 of the real Super Hero's might hunt down this mass murderer.

I remember a (fuck you Covar! ) story during Civil War where Captain America reluctantly let Punisher in on their side before kicking him out again after Frank executed two of the Hood's men they had prisoner or something like that.

It seems like he's not really tolerated by most of Marvel's guys.

No, as I recall, he's pretty much hated by most of the mainstream heroes. The few who actually try to catch him always lose or find some reason to let him go.

Espy said:

Which sounds cool. It makes you wonder how he can exist in the marvel universe with 1 superhero for every 5 people though. You would think at some point at least 1 or 2 of the real Super Hero's might hunt down this mass murderer.

Click to expand...

Catch him and then what? Send him to jail? Where he'll be locked up along side all those irredeemable criminals? You'd might as well ground a kid by taking them to Dairy Queen.

I didn't think the Thomas Jane Punisher movie was half as bad as the rep it earned. I'd love for Marvel to take another crack at it, and I'm not even a big Punisher fan.

All that said, does Jack have a high enough alcohol content to light up like that? Whiskeys are generally only around 40% alcohol, I'd think you'd need upwards of 50% before it's flammable.

You know, a Punisher movie would be predictable as all heck, but it'd be different from other ones.

Huh. Suppose they give Thomas Jane control over the movie, let him do the right kind of Punisher movie...and have it end with Frank wololo getting arrested.

Then the sequel is a Punisher-in-prison movie, which would pretty much write itself.

Covar said:

Catch him and then what? Send him to jail? Where he'll be locked up along side all those irredeemable criminals? You'd might as well ground a kid by taking them to Dairy Queen.

Click to expand...

So they tolerate a mass murderer because sending him to prison would make him happy? Some real moral and upright hero's you guys got in the Marvel universe.

Seriously though, I think there could be a really good HBO/AMC show based on the Punisher.

honestly despite their best efforts to make it all one universe, I still have trouble imagining the MArvel universe that way. As Espy has pointed out, for example, I can't fathom how Frank Castle gets to continue operating in a city populated by the Avengers, Daredevil, and Spider-Man. For that matter, I've always felt like the X-Men are severely out of place as well, every so often the universes cross over and it works okay, but otherwise, you don't really get a sense of the whole mutant hunt, or even a whiff of the sentinels, in most of the marvel books unless they are leading up to a crossover. I think they've probably gotten better at this though. Ultimate Spider-Man did an excellent job of making it all seem like one universe

I can see the punisher working in the ultimate universe. He just would have to be really good at staying off the grid and always on the run.
Again, a pretty cool show.

Espy said:

Seriously though, I think there could be a really good HBO/AMC show based on the Punisher.

Click to expand...

The pilot obviously being the death of his family, rest of the first season being Frank building his reputation as the Punisher with various (in universe) theories about who's killing all these criminals and why. Secondary focus on the cops assigned to find out what's going on with all these deaths since as said above he doesn't have much of a supporting cast. End the first season with Frank Castle and his mission being publically known and the official formation of "The Punisher Task Force".

Second season have Frank go after the main organised crime family in the area (Mafia or whoever). End with him effectively wiping them out.

Third season have a gang war with new crime groups moving in on the territory, remains of the group from the second season trying to keep a grip on it, Frank just killing everyone he can, and the cops trying to keep a lid on everything AND catch the Punisher.

Maybe have a mini-arc during one season with the Punisher in prison.

Done well that could have real potential.

Plus if it's on HBO he could bang a lot of naked chicks.

Espy said:

Plus if it's on HBO he could bang a lot of naked chicks.

Click to expand...

You gotta make it really gratuitous, though. Have him monologue about something completely unrelated to sex while lecturing two prostitutes on how to properly get in on, for example.

Nah, that would be just stupid.

I actually think AMC would be a far more likely home for it. They're really targetting the comic book demo with Walking Dead/ Comic book Men.

checkeredhat said:

I actually think AMC would be a far more likely home for it. They're really targetting the comic book demo with Walking Dead/ Comic book Men.

Click to expand...

I fully support this.

I really wish I still got AMC.

Fuck you, Dish.

Yeah, that Viacom thing is pretty stupid.

Espy said:

So they tolerate a mass murderer because sending him to prison would make him happy? Some real moral and upright hero's you guys got in the Marvel universe.

Seriously though, I think there could be a really good HBO/AMC show based on the Punisher.

Click to expand...

Weak excuse, but Punisher sells books.