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http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/police-shoot-man-at-hotel-in-times-square/

Thank god the gun jammed on the 3rd round. The tourists' comments are pretty effin' funny, if also kind of full of fail.

A tourist from Australia, Suzanne Davis, 42, stopped to take images with a video recorder. “It’s my first day in New York, so it makes very real what you see in the movies,” she said.

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EDIT:Coverage summary from Gothamist

Nothing much new except that it says that the guy died on the way to the hospital, and confirms that only one of the cops shot him, but others ran in to help disarm him, because he was still resisting.

Also mentions that his brother (previsouly mentioned as selling CDs with him) was arrested for jumping on a cop's back while they were disarming him.

Good thing our gun laws stopped him from getting his hands on that gun.

Regardless of where he got it, the tourists just seem a bit...off in their reaction, no?

TeKeo said:

Regardless of where he got it, the tourists just seem a bit...off in their reaction, no?

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I wouldn't say so, every movie about New York has that happen so for that Australian who has never been here that makes the movies seem real.

Twitch;313936][quote=TeKeo said:

Regardless of where he got it, the tourists just seem a bit...off in their reaction, no?

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I wouldn't say so, every movie about New York has that happen so for that Australian who has never been here that makes the movies seem real.[/QUOTE]

Every? Really? :blue:

TeKeo;313999][quote=Twitch;313936][quote=TeKeo said:

Regardless of where he got it, the tourists just seem a bit...off in their reaction, no?

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I wouldn't say so, every movie about New York has that happen so for that Australian who has never been here that makes the movies seem real.[/quote]

Every? Really? :blue:[/QUOTE]
Your latching onto the phrasing there kind of indicates that there is no real discussion to be had here. Good day to you sir.

Oh please, you said it, not me. Then again, Sinatra was supposedly a bit ticked that Marlon Brando played the lead in Guys and Dolls, so you can be forgiven for ignoring it.

Doesn't it seem even remotely bizarre that after seeing a man gunned down, hopefully as a last resort (as it seems), that her thought is that it makes movies more real?

Perhaps she was in shock, but she was apparently taking picures just fine.

The tourist from Ireland is maybe mildly less freaky, but I wonder whether her comparing the excitement of the shooting to her losing her luggage and seeing Wicked is more the NYT blogger combining a much longer conversation together as if it were a single conversational element.

I'm gonna have to side with Twitch on this one.

Is her reaction something you think you would share, if the setting were different?

What's dumb as shit to me is that this guy died because he didn't wanna go to jail for pirating music.

escushion said:

What's dumb as shit to me is that this guy died because he didn't wanna go to jail for pirating music.

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I wouldn't either. Jail for pirating music? Nice to know your judicial system is still overly punitive.

BlackCrossCrusader;314069][quote=escushion said:

What's dumb as shit to me is that this guy died because he didn't wanna go to jail for pirating music.

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I wouldn't either. Jail for pirating music? Nice to know your judicial system is still overly punitive.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but would you attempt to shoot up Times Square over it? Didn't think so.

Considering he had a stolen weapon, it was going to be a lot more when the police arrested/frisked him.

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------

Although having the entire NY police force descend upon you is not a viable alternative either. Still, he could have done some damage had he killed the officer and decided to go on a murderous rampage with no one else to stop him...

Iaculus;314072][quote=BlackCrossCrusader;314069][quote=escushion said:

What's dumb as shit to me is that this guy died because he didn't wanna go to jail for pirating music.

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I wouldn't either. Jail for pirating music? Nice to know your judicial system is still overly punitive.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but would you attempt to shoot up Times Square over it? Didn't think so.[/QUOTE]

That's really what I meant. Was it worth dying over?

I think the guy had a deeper problem with the police than getting arrested for a minor charge, thus the note in his pocket.

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

And the lead roll in Guys and Dolls should have been mine god damn it.

No, it should have been mine.

Twitch said:

I think the guy had a deeper problem with the police than getting arrested for a minor charge, thus the note in his pocket

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I'm no NYPD procedural expert, but they probably wouldn't even have arrested him for the CD-selling thing, just fined him and sent him on his way for doing it without a tax stamp.

I'm guessing that he freaked out that they might see the gun, which was at least apparently stolen, if not necessarily illegal if it was a semi-automatic.

I'm not saying it's logical, obviously, but that was probably the thought-process.

And the lead roll in Guys and Dolls should have been mine god damn it.

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I didn't know until I looked it up that "you" were originally the lead in On the Waterfront but the producer preferred Brando.

---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

Coverage summary from Gothamist

Nothing much new except that it says that the guy died on the way to the hospital, and confirms that only one of the cops shot him, but others ran in to help disarm him, because he was still resisting.

Also mentions that his brother (previsouly mentioned as selling CDs with him) was arrested for jumping on a cop's back while they were disarming him.

Iaculus;314072][quote=BlackCrossCrusader;314069][quote=escushion said:

What's dumb as shit to me is that this guy died because he didn't wanna go to jail for pirating music.

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I wouldn't either. Jail for pirating music? Nice to know your judicial system is still overly punitive.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but would you attempt to shoot up Times Square over it? Didn't think so.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather be dead than in a jail in New York.

Also, this is why you don't trust an open-bolt SMG. He made a terrible choice of weapon.

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

Also it's NYC, I'm sure that cop would not have let him go.

Deschain said:

Also it's NYC, I'm sure that cop would not have let him go.

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If he was anywhere but Midtown, I would agree, but the impression I've always gotten in Times Square is that cops there are more interested in keeping the pedestrian foot traffic moving.

If he hadn't run when they asked him for his tax stamp, they really might have just written him up a fine and told him to fuck off.

TeKeo;314128][quote=Deschain said:

Also it's NYC, I'm sure that cop would not have let him go.

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If he was anywhere but Midtown, I would agree, but the impression I've always gotten in Times Square is that cops there are more interested in keeping the pedestrian foot traffic moving.

If he hadn't run when they asked him for his tax stamp, they really might have just written him up a fine and told him to fuck off.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't matter, that guy didn't care. It's evident that he was just waiting for a chance to murder a cop and he viewed this as the perfect time.

Twitch;314142][quote=TeKeo;314128][quote=Deschain said:

Also it's NYC, I'm sure that cop would not have let him go.

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If he was anywhere but Midtown, I would agree, but the impression I've always gotten in Times Square is that cops there are more interested in keeping the pedestrian foot traffic moving.

If he hadn't run when they asked him for his tax stamp, they really might have just written him up a fine and told him to fuck off.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't matter, that guy didn't care. It's evident that he was just waiting for a chance to murder a cop and he viewed this as the perfect time.[/QUOTE]



You know, if people thought that those CD scammers were intimidating before....

Hand-written on the back of the card, the police said, were these words: “I just finished watching ‘The Last Dragon.’ I feel sorry for a cop if he think I’m getting into his paddy wagon.”

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Good grief...

More updates.

Apparently, the gun was legally purchased in Virginia and is a semi-automatic knock-off of a genuine MAC-10, which jammed because he was shooting it sideways "gangsta-style".

TeKeo said:

More updates.

Apparently, the gun was legally purchased in Virginia and is a semi-automatic knock-off of a genuine MAC-10, which jammed because he was shooting it sideways \"gangsta-style\".

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Shhh.... we want these gansta knuckleheads to keep to their bad habits. It makes it easier to take them down if they can not shoot straight.

Apparently, the gun was legally purchased in Virginia and is a semi-automatic knock-off of a genuine MAC-10, which jammed because he was shooting it sideways "gangsta-style".

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This is something to test the next time at the range. I'll feel immensely stupid, but much safer.

Deschain said:

Apparently, the gun was legally purchased in Virginia and is a semi-automatic knock-off of a genuine MAC-10, which jammed because he was shooting it sideways "gangsta-style".

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This is something to test the next time at the range. I'll feel immensely stupid, but much safer.

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Isn't this something potentially a bit dangerous to test yourself in a gun range?

You're by far the expert here (at least compared to me), but all the same...

Meh.

TeKeo;315074][quote=Deschain said:

Apparently, the gun was legally purchased in Virginia and is a semi-automatic knock-off of a genuine MAC-10, which jammed because he was shooting it sideways "gangsta-style".

Click to expand...

This is something to test the next time at the range. I'll feel immensely stupid, but much safer.

Click to expand...

Isn't this something potentially a bit dangerous to test yourself in a gun range?

You're by far the expert here (at least compared to me), but all the same... [/QUOTE]
It's not like it blows up, I've done this test, it was a few weeks back, with my glock and sure enough it stovepiped.

Stovepipes can be common depending if you're holding the gun improperly, using ammo that doesn't quite fit, or your gun/extractor is dirty. A stovepipe is where the bullet fires properly, simply the casing does not eject all the way and gets caught when the slide moves forward again. The proper method for clearing it is tap the magazine into place, pull the slide back to free the shell and knock it out. It should rechamber a round afterwards.

Unless it's a glock. Then you're plumb out of luck because it will explode. That's why they're called glocknades or glocksplosions.

Don't y'all know? They fire it sideways, because that's the way it comes out of the box? *chuckles*

In all seriousness, as previously stated, NYPD has bigger fish to put in jail than a couple panhandlers/ petty cd scam-artists. They would have been handed a citation/summons and released. Buddy had the card because pretty much every single thuglet I deal with has something similar on them. I'd say it's about 90% have something on them to write on, and they scribble crappy rap lyrics (is there any other kind?) whenever they get the urge to write. I guess they're all aspiring rappers or somesuch

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Deschain said:

Unless it's a glock. Then you're plumb out of luck because it will explode. That's why they're called glocknades or glocksplosions.

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Check your intel, boyo. My department uses Glocks, in several different flavors. I've heard of many instances of stovepiping, for various reasons (usually due to poor maintenance, or utilizing too much CLP when cleaning) - never heard of one exploding.

http://www.wtov9.com/news/21866969/detail.html

I'm still on the lookout for an AKplosion.

Deschain said:

http://www.wtov9.com/news/21866969/detail.html

I'm still on the lookout for an AKplosion.

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Fair enough... one example, although there was nothing in the article that indicated it was a problem with the pistol itself.

Something like that... hrm... I could see it as being an issue with the extractor failing, but still feeding a round. During a course of fire, the firing pin would strike, fire the round, but the bullet would have nowhere to go.

Come to think of it, a badly fouled barrel might have a similar effect. Buildup of gas pressure in the chamber would cause the polymer to crack, venting waste gas as indicated.

So, not necessarily caused by the weapon, but the maintenance thereof.


Also...

Yea I'm not going to lie, I have an irrational hatred for glocks despite the fact they're probably one of the better handguns out there. The ammunition was probably loaded wrongly at the factory. The AK jam has left me to believe there is no God though.

All the Glock failures were do to improper loading of the round that goes in the chamber. If you use the same two rounds when arming your Glock, the round will seat further down the casing. This happens because the ramp that guides the round into the chamber has a notch between the ramp and chamber. A hollow point duty round hits that notch every time you load it. Over time that force will finally push the round too far back. Then when it gets fired for the first time after several dozen of these repeated chamberings, the round gets stuck in the case and the force of the powder gets forced out the back of the breach.

User error with guns is a little worse than user error with a PC.

---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

Technical personnel at Glock Inc. advise that repeated chambering of the same round may cause the bullet to move deeper in the casing, further compacting the prpellent. When a normal cartride is fired, the firing pin his the primer, igniting the propellant. When the propellant burns, the gas pressure drives the bullet out of the case and down the barrel. However, if the propellant has been compact, the pressure may increase beyond the gun's specifications, causing the weapon to break apart. Sigarms Inc's peronnel confirm that reloading the same round five or six times will cause the problems, noting that reloading the same round even once will void their warranty. Both manufacturers stress that the problem is not with the gun, but with chambering the same round repeatedly.

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more technical than I am.

Hmmm... I can believe that... I guess the tolerances on the frames aren't as tight as they could be, given the circumstances.

And thus my department's policy of recirculating ammo during yearly range quals makes more sense. We unload all magazines, and retain 20 rounds. These rounds are then fired. The rest go into a bucket, to be redistributed later (I presume. For all I know, our Sgt-armorer could wave his hands and perform some strange Pacific Islander magic over it. Actually, given what I know of the man, I could believe it... *chuckles*)

And Deschain - sorry if I came off as oppositional/confrontational. It's refreshing to have an argument with someone who is informed on the subject matter, rather than a fight that degenerates into whose howitzer is larger. *grins*

Officer_Charon said:

Hmmm... I can believe that... I guess the tolerances on the frames aren't as tight as they could be, given the circumstances.

And thus my department's policy of recirculating ammo during yearly range quals makes more sense. We unload all magazines, and retain 20 rounds. These rounds are then fired. The rest go into a bucket, to be redistributed later (I presume. For all I know, our Sgt-armorer could wave his hands and perform some strange Pacific Islander magic over it. Actually, given what I know of the man, I could believe it... *chuckles*)

And Deschain - sorry if I came off as oppositional/confrontational. It's refreshing to have an argument with someone who is informed on the subject matter, rather than a fight that degenerates into whose howitzer is larger. *grins*

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Man, don't apologize to that guy, his irrational hatred of the glock is only matched by his love for his Kel Tec sub 2000. He's less than human.

I don't know if I should be amazed or afraid of the technical knowledge on firearms represented in this thread...

:behindsofa:

Andi said:

I don't know if I should be amazed or afraid of the technical knowledge on firearms represented in this thread...

:behindsofa:

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It's the ones without the technical knowledge who still have firearms that you should probably be afraid of.

Like I told you Twitch, that gun is redeemed by 3 qualities: (1) it folds in half (2) it is still somewhat reliable (3) it takes Glock magazines.

After everyone's glocknades have exploded, I'll be able to use the magazines scavenged off their corpses.

Yea, I'm kidding.

I probably should have seen it coming Charon. The moment I saw you post I was thinking, "Hmm, he's an officer isn't he. And most police issue/offer glocks as a sidearm. I can see where this is going." I'm definitely not offended considering I'm the one filled with irrational hatred for the Glock and its square slide and invisible hammer.

I've pretty much seen all the gun arguments possible: 9mm vs. .45, AK vs. M16, 5.7x28mm vs. any, .22LR vs. any, M14 vs. M16, DEAGLES vs. any etc. etc. It never goes anywhere.

And Andi, I know where you live and I'll be right over. I'm the guy with guns draped all over my body with full camo, gas mask, helmet. I'll be driving a converted Hummer with sheet metal welded to the sides and rifles mounted on each of the doors. You'll see the bumper sticker on my hood that says, "Suffer not the Unarmed to live."