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Ok, I just want to get this out because I am still on edge.

I was sitting in my apartment, watching my DvD of QI when I suddenly heard a woman screaming. Not the playful type of scream, but a scream of abject terror. It sounded like it was coming from the parking lot outside of my apartment. I looked out, but saw nothing immediately. I could still hear her, though. After a few seconds, I see a man dragging a woman across the parking lot. When I say "dragging" I mean it in the very real, her legs were scraping along the ground, DRAG. This man then proceeds to try and stuff the woman into the passenger side of a dark colored car. She struggled with him and got away briefly. He caught her again, though, and then picked her up and carried her off. They went through the walkway of the building behind mine and the screaming stopped.

I started getting dressed in order to go down and investigate or at least get the license plate number of the car. I was not fast enough, though, as when I looked out my window again, I saw him back at the car, this time succeeding in stuffing her into the passenger side. He was able to get to the drivers side and start the car. At that point, I saw my neighbors across the street start chasing after him. I joined. By the time we got out to the entrance to the complex, a police car was there and was directed towards the car. The cops were able to pull them over and got the woman out. Both of them had bruises and marks on them, but I can say with fairly good certainty that anything he had was from her trying to defend herself.

It turns out that these two are dating and have gone through this sort of thing before. Only last time, she dropped the charges. The cops separated them and eventually let the man go. We all wrote out statements for the police. She swears she won't drop the charges this time, but only time will tell on that.

The thing that gets me is, I didn't call the police. Thankfully, my neighbors did, but I reacted too slowly. That bothers me.

Also, another thing that bothers me (and I probably shouldn't even be mentioning) is that this woman stayed with this asshole after this went on once before already and I can't even get a girl to answer my emails.

at least you reacted instead of closing the window and turning up the music. You sir, are a hero.

And FYI? Email? Dude. Go outside, and talk to the wimminz. Well, not right now. That'd be a creepy thing this late. But you know the drill.

I hope everything is okay with her and that.

You investigated, tried to get a number, gave a statement to the police. That's exactly what you CAN do to help. This isn't a comic book. You participated to make sure the authorities got involved, instead of turning a blind eye. You can't control where it goes from here.

Also, A's exactly right - meet women face to face. Ironic coming from me, I know. But any decent relationship I've had, started in person.

Jesus Christo.

Ok, yes, I understand, meet girls face-to-face. Problem is; I hate bars, am a self-diagnosed agoraphobic (or maybe more accurately just a case of Social Anxiety), and am terribly shy in real life. I am working on that, but it is a slow process. That is not the point of this, though.

Yeah, but since the other point is already covered, let's work on the other one. I hate to admit it, but you're a nice guy with a good heart. Get to know a few people and that might take you places.

you two dudes should go road tripping together and co-help each other get over your shit. Maybe go to a comic nerd con.

Andromache said:

you two dudes should go road tripping together and co-help each other get over your shit. Maybe go to a comic nerd con.

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And if you happen to be going through Central Cali, pick me up too. I'll pitch in for gas and food.

Did I ever tell you guys about the dream I had where I camperized an old School bus and declared it the Halforums-mobile? I drove it from Newfoundland, through the US, Mexico ... down down down south. The goal was Argentina, and many a Halforumite journeyed with me.

Your road trip idea just reminded me.

DID YOU DRIVE TO ONTARIO

About once a month I have to call the cops on my next door apartment neighbors. Many a times I have saw her with bruising on her face yet she always stays with him and doesn't press charges. The last time it happened the guy and a "cousin" were fighting in the parking lot the "cousin" was in a car and the neighbor (guy) was not and they were yelling at each other. I'm thinking the guy in the car pulled a gun because I hear "This is how we do it in *the guys city here*, bitch!" they yell some more then the guy goes back inside and starts laying into his wife. Called the cops they came and knocked on the door and the neighbors house went quiet for like 5 minutes while the cops kept knocking eventually they opened the door. The guy got arrested because he had a warrant (which i knew about but could never get the cops there to arrest him because he would never answer the door for anyone). Long story short they're still together, I feel sorry for the neighbor and I hope I never have to defend her life (which would only happen if the above mention story happened).

On the one hand, a road trip with me, Gen, and Cheezy might be fun. On the other, we're already kind of the same person and that might cause a quantum paradox.

I'm game for it. I sense a buddy comedy movie as well.

Gusto said:

DID YOU DRIVE TO ONTARIO

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Only to drive through it, flipping it the bird the whole time! Amirite?


That was mean. I'm sure it's a lovely place.

phil;368768][QUOTE=Gusto said:

DID YOU DRIVE TO ONTARIO

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Only to drive through it, flipping it the bird the whole time! Amirite?


That was mean. I'm sure it's a lovely place.[/QUOTE]

A lovely place to drive through while flipping it the bird the whole time.

CrimsonSoul;368769][QUOTE=phil;368768][QUOTE=Gusto said:

DID YOU DRIVE TO ONTARIO

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Only to drive through it, flipping it the bird the whole time! Amirite?


That was mean. I'm sure it's a lovely place.[/QUOTE]

A lovely place to drive through while flipping it the bird the whole time.[/QUOTE]


.

I'm sure you wouldn't want a girl LIKE THAT writing you e-mails. It's all about quality, my friend.

You did the right thing by following them. The absolute worst thing to do is nothing. Sadly, it's not uncommon for battered women to go straight back to their abusive boyfriend or husband. Their logic is filled with so many twists and turns and cul de sacs that I can't keep up. Abused women tend to behave in the most irrational manner; just look at how The Psycho treated me.

One time I saw a domestic dispute and intervened. I got into one little fight but my Mom got scared and said, "You're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air."

Man, Gen, you sure get yourself into some legal/moral quandaries, don't you?

Anyways, don't doubt yourself. You tried to help, you did the right thing. If you have a cellphone, next time (not that I hope there's one) grab it on your way out the door, multitask! But you did good, man.

Morphine said:

I'm sure you wouldn't want a girl LIKE THAT writing you e-mails. It's all about quality, my friend.

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Well said. Most of the women who stay with the assholes are the ones who are so scared of being alone that they'll be with anyone... it doesn't matter who. Man I REALLY hope she doesn't drop those charges.

---------- Post added at 03:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 AM ----------

And GP, that's freakin scary. I probably wouldn't have reacted that quickly either, just because of the shock. You never think you're actually going to be around to witness something like that.

I think you did the right thing.

The only thing I would add to it is if you're not a cop of some kind and don't have an omniscient certainty the guy doesn't have a weapon, you should stay up high, call the police, and make sure you can give them as much info as you can, like which way the guy goes, his description, what's happening, etc.

I know that sounds cowardly, but you never know if a guy is carrying a weapon and stupid enough to use it, and the best hand-to-hand in the world never stopped a guy with a gun and 10 feet to aim it with.

If my experiences have taught me anything is that after today, she will not cooperate and she will not leave him. They never fucking do.

IronBrig4 said:

You did the right thing by following them. The absolute worst thing to do is nothing. Sadly, it's not uncommon for battered women to go straight back to their abusive boyfriend or husband. Their logic is filled with so many twists and turns and cul de sacs that I can't keep up. Abused women tend to behave in the most irrational manner; just look at how The Psycho treated me.

One time I saw a domestic dispute and intervened. I got into one little fight but my Mom got scared and said, "You're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air."

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It's too bad General Specific is shy/anxious/agoraphobic or he could stalk the girl and bother her constantly until she got over her abusive boyfriend and told him to go away.

Frankie said:

If my experiences have taught me anything is that after today, she will not cooperate and she will not leave him. They never fucking do.

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Yeah, I'm hoping my daughter never gets involved with someone like that. I'd sure hate to go to jail for murder.

Chazwozel;368809][QUOTE=Frankie said:

If my experiences have taught me anything is that after today, she will not cooperate and she will not leave him. They never fucking do.

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Yeah, I'm hoping my daughter never gets involved with someone like that. I'd sure hate to go to jail for murder.[/QUOTE]

I have a friend who's father spent some time in prison. He used to deal drugs or something, and long story short he got arrested, went to jail for a few years, and then got deported, or something. I don't know the whole story.

The point of the story is that he warns all of her potential suitors that he is not afraid to go to jail again. And when you can say 'again' you demand to be taken seriously.

escushion said:

It's too bad General Specific is shy/anxious/agoraphobic or he could stalk the girl and bother her constantly until she got over her abusive boyfriend and told him to go away.

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He could carve her initials into his leg. That will show his commitment.

Embrace who you must become:

Shegokigo said:

Embrace who you must become:

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I must become an image hosted by tripod?

Seriously, that joke is so old.

Hosting via tripod is old school.

*shrug* I just find the images, if I wanted to self-host I'd put them on an old defunct "Homestead" account.

Become the tripod you were meant to be?

Andromache said:

Become the tripod you were meant to be?

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:eyebrows:

not with 14 year old girls, man!!

Frankie said:

If my experiences have taught me anything is that after today, she will not cooperate and she will not leave him. They never fucking do.

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This. *sigh*

In all seriousness, as previously stated here, you did about the best that you could. The only other thing you could have done would be to call the cops and stay on the phone with the dispatcher. However, it's easy for someone to say what they would do in a given situation, when the reality of that situation ISN'T hitting them between the eyes like a 2x4. You did great by providing a statement: we NEVER get those from outside witnesses.

Also, shit like this is why the STATE presses charges down here. Because the victims don't like getting away from a familiar situation; even if their partner is abusive, it's still somehow more comforting to them than being out there on their own.

Officer_Charon;368863][QUOTE=Frankie said:

If my experiences have taught me anything is that after today, she will not cooperate and she will not leave him. They never fucking do.

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This. *sigh*

In all seriousness, as previously stated here, you did about the best that you could. The only other thing you could have done would be to call the cops and stay on the phone with the dispatcher. However, it's easy for someone to say what they would do in a given situation, when the reality of that situation ISN'T hitting them between the eyes like a 2x4. You did great by providing a statement: we NEVER get those from outside witnesses.

Also, shit like this is why the STATE presses charges down here. Because the victims don't like getting away from a familiar situation; even if their partner is abusive, it's still somehow more comforting to them than being out there on their own.[/QUOTE]

Got a question for you, Char. In the OP's post from reading it I would assume that the male was trying to kidnap the female and as a reasonable person I would assume the responsibility to stop this possible kidnapping. Besides being on the phone with the police I would also have my firearm and approach the suspect (I am not LEO) and order him to stop and if he did not I would more than likely fire at him hurting/killing the possible kidnapper (in my mind he's kidnapping her, from the description given). What would I expect from the officers responding? Arrest and a trip downtown, to be let go and my firearm confiscated (I know it would be confiscated either way) for a possible case, the case forwarded to a grand jury for consideration? How do you think that officers would react in that situation?

edit: Assume I'm on the phone with 911 before/during/after the whole situation

@CrimsonSoul: In that situation, if you told the dispatcher all that, we'd get it as:

D: "45C1, be advised that the complainant states he has a firearm and will be attempting to confront the suspect until police arrive."
D: "The complainant has made contact with the suspect, white male, approximately 6 foot 180 pounds, brown hair, blue shirt."
D: "Complainant advises that the suspect is now fleeing on foot, last seen going down [his street]. Complainant is out with the victim."

While motivated by a noble heart, armed confrontations between Samaritans and suspects don't always work. Remember: "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Chances are the guy will take flight, leaving you to either stay with the sobbing victim (who will cuss you out for butting in to a "private discussion" [I wish I was kidding]) or to chase him. You're going to be running to keep him in sight. He's running for his freedom. Guess who tends to win those deals?

This is assuming he runs. Otherwise, he's going to fight, which will either make you pull the trigger (a decision I don't envy) or get physical with him. Then the situation has escalated before police get there, which we never like.

tl;dr - observing and staying in contact with dispatch to provide current intel is always your best bet. If he attempts to drive off, get in your car and FOLLOW (don't INTERCEPT), staying on the phone and providing tag, descriptions, actions, locations - all of this can be relayed in real-time to police. Then we can take the scene from where it ends up.

It's brave of you to offer that up, but if you're not a LEO, he's either not going to respect you attempting to halt the situation, or he's going to bolt, and the suspect is gone.

Officer_Charon said:

(a decision I don't envy)

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I agree 100% here, and I've made the decision long ago that I would use deadly force if and when necessary to defend myself or a 3rd person and is the reason I carry 24/7 anywhere I go (when legally able to do so).

As to the rest, I would still confront the suspect if he runs he runs I would rather that than the suspect get away with the victim. and yes I know she would likely try to turn things around on me when the police arrived. I would not chase the suspect after he has fled and would stay with the victim.

And now, with that decision, the suspect gets away instead of being detained by the police. Bravo.

As I said, white-knighting is an admirable ambition, but it really only works in this kind of situation if justice can be applied to the miscreant in question. Honestly, police could do our jobs a LOT more efficiently (ie locking up bad guys) if we had more input from the populace (intel, suspect descriptions, DIRECTIONS OF &$*(@ travel!!!!! etc)

Dude, the victim lived with the guy, didn't she? He wouldn't be able to stay away long, they'd have his name, address, phone number, description, credit cards... Unless he had a fake passport and IDs and lots of cash already on him when the hypothetical running occurred, he'd be SOL.

The Mex said:

Dude, the victim lived with the guy, didn't she? He wouldn't be able to stay away long, they'd have his name, address, phone number, description, credit cards... Unless he had a fake passport and IDs and lots of cash already on him when the hypothetical running occurred, he'd be SOL.

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You'd think so, wouldn't you...

Most folks have several people that they can get in contact with to let them crash somewhere for a while. Even give them a key to go to his place and pick up some stuff.

I don't really see it as white-knighting as I do see it as stopping a possible rape/kidnapping/murder

One of the reasons why a lot of Northern Jersey townships with bad neighborhoods stay bad despite all the money pouring in from NYC is because there's still a big culture, leftover from the last 20 years, of either not reporting immediately when something is happening or getting involved and making things worse.

Even vets don't necessarily have the training appropriate for those kinds of situations. Strictly law enforcement only.

EDIT: Not saying that the desire is bad, CS, but the impression I've always got (and Char so far has backed it up) is that the best chance to actually stop and arrest the guy is by staying out of the way and making sure that the police have the best info possible.

Treating murder/rape/kidnapping as the same level of event here may be a bad way to look at things, horrific as all three are. I dunno, what do you say, Char?

In my situation, I was told afterwords that they do not live together. The guy lives in my complex and she apparently lives in another one nearby.

Also, I found out later on that this was the first time that woman had been out with friends since the last time he did something like this. I really hope that she does follow through on this and doesn't wind back up with him again.

General Specific said:

In my situation, I was told afterwords that they do not live together. The guy lives in my complex and she apparently lives in another one nearby.

Also, I found out later on that this was the first time that woman had been out with friends since the last time he did something like this. I really hope that she does follow through on this and doesn't wind back up with him again.

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Don't take it too hard when she does. That's her call.

I probably won't even know it if she does. I'd just hate to see someone get hurt or possibly even killed over their own stubbornness and/or stupidity.

very few people enjoy that sort of thing, and they probably should be avoided. just sayin.

This is why I like living in the country. The scariest thing that ever happened around here was some guy broke into a car and stole a Blockbuster DVD of Planes, Trains & Automobiles. And there was a giant fireball in the sky once.

I lived upstairs from a woman who was regularly physically and verbally abused by her boyfriend. I called the cops so often that the officers knew me like an old friend. There really isn't much more that you could have done to help.

Officer_Charon said:

@CrimsonSoul: In that situation, if you told the dispatcher all that, we'd get it as:

D: "45C1, be advised that the complainant states he has a firearm and will be attempting to confront the suspect until police arrive."
D: "The complainant has made contact with the suspect, white male, approximately 6 foot 180 pounds, brown hair, blue shirt."
D: "Complainant advises that the suspect is now fleeing on foot, last seen going down [his street]. Complainant is out with the victim."

While motivated by a noble heart, armed confrontations between Samaritans and suspects don't always work. Remember: "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Chances are the guy will take flight, leaving you to either stay with the sobbing victim (who will cuss you out for butting in to a "private discussion" [I wish I was kidding]) or to chase him. You're going to be running to keep him in sight. He's running for his freedom. Guess who tends to win those deals?

This is assuming he runs. Otherwise, he's going to fight, which will either make you pull the trigger (a decision I don't envy) or get physical with him. Then the situation has escalated before police get there, which we never like.

tl;dr - observing and staying in contact with dispatch to provide current intel is always your best bet. If he attempts to drive off, get in your car and FOLLOW (don't INTERCEPT), staying on the phone and providing tag, descriptions, actions, locations - all of this can be relayed in real-time to police. Then we can take the scene from where it ends up.

It's brave of you to offer that up, but if you're not a LEO, he's either not going to respect you attempting to halt the situation, or he's going to bolt, and the suspect is gone.

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I see this whole thing as really dangerous to everyone. I've heard that some of the most dangerous calls are the domestic violence calls. The victim ends up getting upset at someone getting in the middle of a private matter, and you may end up having her come at you. Or maybe he has a gun in the car and you are in a shoot out.

You know, I can't honestly say if I'd have done the same as GenSpec here. I'd like to think so. But I have to admit, I might look away like people so often do. I think it's admirable that Gen did do what he could.

And Crimmy, you're a nutjob, I'm just saying. Pulling a heater in a situation like that is like waving a sparkler in a gas-filled room.

Lying Bastard said:

You know, I can't honestly say if I'd have done the same as GenSpec here. I'd like to think so. But I have to admit, I might look away like people so often do. I think it's admirable that Gen did do what he could.

And Crimmy, you're a nutjob, I'm just saying. Pulling a heater in a situation like that is like waving a sparkler in a gas-filled room.

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I feel you, lots of us have a 'I would have done X in Y situation" but when it really comes down to it.... Easier to avoid a possible confrontation and/or situation than to get involved.

Yeh...I've seen this before with my dad. The woman hurt my siter and I and him yet he always went back to her. Over and over.

It took a particularly violent incident for him to finally say "Fuck this" and get out.