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If you had to make a choice....

#1

Jay

Jay

Would you either :

- Be born rich and die at a young age of 40 (and still be rich).

- Have little in the means of money scraping by for all your life but live until you're 80.

Discuss.


#2

Dave

Dave

My choices in this experiment are somewhat limited.


#3

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

If I don't live until 80 now, I'm going to be pissed.


#4

Jay

Jay

Don't take in mind your current life but moreso things as they are written down.


#5

Jay

Jay

Yes, I'm in with the big guy.


#6

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

How rich? Make people disappear with no questions rich? Cause if so, then that's easy.

20-25 years of living out all my fantasies vs 60+ years of fruitless work? Ill take #1 please.


#7

Jay

Jay

Where is Mankirk's wife?


#8

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

80, easy. Being rich is boring.


#9

Gusto

Gusto

Live rich, die young.


#10



Chibibar

Shegokigo said:
How rich? Make people disappear with no questions rich? Cause if so, then that's easy.

20-25 years of living out all my fantasies vs 60+ years of fruitless work? Ill take #1 please.
Click to expand...
I am with Shego on this one. If I know that I will be rich and can do all what rich people can do (including above) then sure :) 40 it is.


#11

Gryfter

Gryfter

I'll choose being rich.... and then I will use my fabulous wealth to research ways to extend life!


#12

Gusto

Gusto

Gryfter said:
I'll choose being rich.... and then I will use my fabulous wealth to research ways to extend life!
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I think the idea is that you can't use your riches to extend your life, or your long life to amass wealth. And that you know it.

Barely surviving for eighty goddamned years sounds like a nightmare. This question isn't even fair.


#13

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Sure it is. It boils down to whether you'd rather spend a life of love, with family and friends you really care about for a long time or a short selfish life most likely filled with fake people and never knowing if someone truly loved you.


#14

Gusto

Gusto

Really? Because I didn't read anything in the question as presented about love.


#15

Gryfter

Gryfter

Gusto said:
Really? Because I didn't read anything in the question as presented about love.
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That's okay, I didn't read anything in the question that said I couldn't try and extend my life through my riches.:p


#16

GasBandit

GasBandit

Quality over quantity.


#17

Adam

Adammon

I'd rather live to 60 and be moderately successful.

Too much I want to see that requires being over 40. Grandkids, social security, Half Life 2: Episode 3...


#18

Jay

Jay

Gusto said:
Really? Because I didn't read anything in the question as presented about love.
Click to expand...
It's a womanly point of view but Shegs is pretty much right.

Didn't think people would have such a problem understanding such a question. No wonder our political forum sucks a dick to read.


#19

Gusto

Gusto

Maybe it's my accounting background that's giving me a cetirus paribus viewpoint on this.


#20



Chibibar

Jay said:
It's a womanly point of view but Shegs is pretty much right.

Didn't think people would have such a problem understanding such a question. No wonder our political forum sucks a dick to read.
Click to expand...
I did think about it. If I was that rich, then my love one (wife and kids and grand kids) will have access to my money and live comfortable :)

I hate for them to live in poor condition if I can help it.


#21



Philosopher B.

Who wants to be born rich? Then you just take shit for granted.

Besides, fuck the rich.

80 years, please. :)
Added at: 20:17
I mean - GIMME DEM FAT STACKS, YO.


#22

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Fuck being poor, as long as I died at 40 with nose full of blow and surrounded by a heap of hookers I'm good.

Happiness is bullshit anyway, no one can be happy forever.


#23

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Was going to comment to Gusto, but Jay nailed it.

It's a matter of looking deeper at what your life situation would be like given the circumstances based on the majority.


#24

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Just to through a wrench in the works, as Dave and others will confirm, the most mind blowing sex you will ever have occurs after you are forty.


#25

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'm going to step in here and say "Haha! No."


#26

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Oh my cute little fraggle, you don't know what you're in for north of 39!


#27

Cajungal

Cajungal

I'd rather have the opportunity to see my grandchildren, continue teaching until I can't anymore, and spend my free time at the public library while eating dried beans and clipping coupons (how dated does that sound?!). The human connections I experience in my work and family life make me want to live longer no matter what I can afford. Also, it would be interesting to see what happens in the future. I'd like to see more of it rather than less.


#28

TommiR

TommiR

If I was a selfish hedonist, I'd take the money and use it to fulfill my every desire.

If I was of the nobility among men and we were talking serious money here, I might take it and use it to do more good than I could possibly hope to accomplish otherwise. Build a new wing for the local hospital, donate money for the police to train additional narcotics dogs, buy vaccines to inoculate children in Africa against devastating but easily preventable diseases. Basically I would save lives, enjoy the time I have with those I care for, and just accept the fact that I'll keel over when the ticker strikes forty.

If I was of the common rung of mankind, concerned mostly about my own happiness and that of those around me, I might choose long life.

I'm no hedonist, so for me it's a choice between 2 and 3. While I'd like to think I am a generally good person, I don't know if I possess the kind of courage to sacrifice myself, with not even the slightest hope of survival, for the benefit of total strangers. It's never been tested before, so maybe I do have what it takes. But the most likely choice for me would be long life, even with full knowledge that hundreds or thousands of people, who might have gone on to live happy healthy and productive lives had I chosen differently, will have died to guarantee me a chance of personal happiness.


#29

Mathias

Mathias



#30

@Li3n

@Li3n

Jay said:
die at a young age of 40 (and still be rich).
Click to expand...
Wait, so i get to take the money with me? Do they use money in the afterlife, or would i need gold or something?


#31

TommiR

TommiR

Didn't you know? Bling bling makes you holier.



#32

Math242

Math242

Money doesn't matter when you're dead so 80 it is.

I don't give a fuck anyway, i have no interest in being filthy rich... I can stop working and live comfortably for 2years as it is. That's good enough for me.


#33

blotsfan

blotsfan

I think I'd go with the 80. I don't know what happens after I die. Its possible that this is really the only chance we all have to experience anything. I want my possible one chance at existing to be as long as possible. Even people who are struggling to make ends meet can have happy lives.


#34

@Li3n

@Li3n

TommiR said:
Didn't you know? Bling bling makes you holier.

Click to expand...
Not without the beard it doesn't...


#35

doomdragon6

doomdragon6

I'd have to go with 80 on this one. I'm not poor nor have I ever been, but if I'd never been well-off, I'd appreciate hard work more. Being "me", however, I know that I would eventually make my financial situation better. I understand the question is "being poor forever" but being poor generally means working hard to do what you do, and I just know I'd be able to make myself better.

My dad started off poor in a poor family and he moved away and made everything better for himself and his family, and I'm well provided for. I can't see not making my situation better after 80 years.

Either way, I'll take the longer life. I'm 23. That would give me only 17 more years. Shit sneaks up on you.


#36

GasBandit

GasBandit

I don't think we're all in agreement about what this question is really asking.


#37

Shannow

Shannow

See what you rick fuckers say at 39 years and 364 days!


#38

GasBandit

GasBandit

Shannow said:
See what you rick fuckers say at 39 years and 364 days!
Click to expand...
"Damn, I'm sure glad I spent the last 22 years banging a different supermodel every week and altering the destiny of humanity instead of being doomed to labor in obscure futility for the next 40 years with nothing to look forward to other than increasing infirmity. Now I can die fulfilled and my prodigious offspring can tear the world to shreds fighting over my legacy."

Let me put it another way... the activities I would plan to take part in under plan A would actually be very likely to cause my death before 40 anyway.


#39



Chibibar

GasBandit said:
I don't think we're all in agreement about what this question is really asking.
Click to expand...
I have to agree. Taken in the original context (as in no other info)
I am still going with 40 and rich.

I have live poor and trying to survive (I assuming that is the life I would live if that was the choice) I BARELY knew when my next meal was or other necessity. I was force to be poor but I had a roof over my head. I presume I would have to work 2 jobs when I get older to cover basic necessity or don't have the education advantage to escalate myself (again assuming from the question given) that means I have no chance of elevating myself above poverty no matter what I do and get to live to be 80. I had a taste of that life and vow never to go back.


#40

Jay

Jay

doomdragon6 said:
I'd have to go with 80 on this one. I'm not poor nor have I ever been, but if I'd never been well-off, I'd appreciate hard work more. Being "me", however, I know that I would eventually make my financial situation better. I understand the question is "being poor forever" but being poor generally means working hard to do what you do, and I just know I'd be able to make myself better.

My dad started off poor in a poor family and he moved away and made everything better for himself and his family, and I'm well provided for. I can't see not making my situation better after 80 years.

Either way, I'll take the longer life. I'm 23. That would give me only 17 more years. Shit sneaks up on you.
Click to expand...
An honest and well thought out answer.

As a HFer I will calmly state...



Kudos.


#41

@Li3n

@Li3n

doomdragon6 said:
I'd have to go with 80 on this one. I'm not poor nor have I ever been, but if I'd never been well-off, I'd appreciate hard work more. Being "me", however, I know that I would eventually make my financial situation better. I understand the question is "being poor forever" but being poor generally means working hard to do what you do, and I just know I'd be able to make myself better.

My dad started off poor in a poor family and he moved away and made everything better for himself and his family, and I'm well provided for. I can't see not making my situation better after 80 years.
Click to expand...
The rules say no matter how hard you work you always struggle... otherwise the question doesn't work.


#42

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Yeah, straight up in the beginning it was said live to 80, scrape by with very little your whole life. I've done my fair share of scraping, not knowing from one month to another whether I can afford the roof over my head. Fuck those days forever. Money may not buy happiness, but money removes the biggest stress causer in most peoples lives, lack of fucking money.


#43

Docseverin

Docseverin

Live fast, die young. That's my motto!


#44

@Li3n

@Li3n

Frankie Williamson said:
Money may not buy happiness, but money removes the biggest stress causer in most peoples lives, lack of fucking money.
Click to expand...
I think you stress too much about money... unless you're actually in danger of starving to death it's not that important...


#45



Chibibar

@Li3n said:
I think you stress too much about money... unless you're actually in danger of starving to death it's not that important...
Click to expand...
Luckily I have never gotten to THAT level. We were hungry (not enough to eat) but barely have enough to eat but not starving.

I may miss a meal a day or two, but always manage to find something to eat. Now there are people who don't have food for days that is worst.
I am personally glad those days are behind me and wouldn't go back ever again.
Would you either :

- Be born rich and die at a young age of 40 (and still be rich).

- Have little in the means of money scraping by for all your life but live until you're 80.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
when it comes to forums, I usually take the literal approach. I would assume from these two sentences that I can get to live to be 80 (no matter what happen) BUT I will be money scraping all my life. To me, that mean struggling just to survive day to day :( that is harsh.


#46

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

HUD, Food Stamps, and Unemployment for me...


#47



Chibibar

sixpackshaker said:
HUD, Food Stamps, and Unemployment for me...
Click to expand...
You only get unemployment if you were employed before ;) (naturally I would assume we are able to get a job, but not a good job)


#48

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Chibibar said:
You only get unemployment if you were employed before ;) (naturally I would assume we are able to get a job, but not a good job)
Click to expand...
Fox News tells me daily that I can live fat and happy on entitlements for ever... They would not lie to me, would they?


#49



Chibibar

sixpackshaker said:
Fox News tells me daily that I can live fat and happy on entitlements for ever... They would not lie to me, would they?
Click to expand...
Yea, if you play your cards right. I guess you could take advantage of welfare system (food stamps and aids)


#50

GasBandit

GasBandit

It's more of a "why should I bust my ass for $15,000 when I can stay home and get $8,000?" as I've read it. It's because the loss of time and gain of stress is just not worth the money to some.


#51



Chibibar

GasBandit said:
It's more of a "why should I bust my ass for $15,000 when I can stay home and get $8,000?" as I've read it. It's because the loss of time and gain of stress is just not worth the money to some.
Click to expand...
It can be stressful especially when you have a family and trying to do good with them :(


#52

GasBandit

GasBandit

Chibibar said:
It can be stressful especially when you have a family and trying to do good with them :(
Click to expand...
And to complicate matters, getting the job might not even add enough income to cover babysitting.

... what? I CAN CARE ABOUT POOR PEOPLE TOO YOU GUYS JEEZ


#53



Chibibar

GasBandit said:
And to complicate matters, getting the job might not even add enough income to cover babysitting.

... what? I CAN CARE ABOUT POOR PEOPLE TOO YOU GUYS JEEZ
Click to expand...
It can get expensive (unless you have stay at home relatives) even the cheapest is around 400-600 a month (5 days a week)


#54

Shannow

Shannow

GasBandit said:
"Damn, I'm sure glad I spent the last 22 years banging a different supermodel every week and altering the destiny of humanity instead of being doomed to labor in obscure futility for the next 40 years with nothing to look forward to other than increasing infirmity. Now I can die fulfilled and my prodigious offspring can tear the world to shreds fighting over my legacy."
Click to expand...
Doubtful.


#55

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
"Damn, I'm sure glad I spent the last 22 years banging a different supermodel every week and altering the destiny of humanity instead of being doomed to labor in obscure futility for the next 40 years with nothing to look forward to other than increasing infirmity. Now I can die fulfilled and my prodigious offspring can tear the world to shreds fighting over my legacy."

Let me put it another way... the activities I would plan to take part in under plan A would actually be very likely to cause my death before 40 anyway.
Click to expand...
Great, if you only had 19 years to spend you own money.... You would do evil instead of good. nice.


#56

GasBandit

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
Great, if you only had 19 years to spend you own money.... You would do evil instead of good. nice.
Click to expand...
Evil is a label the small minded place on those with the willingness to realize their dreams. :twisted:


#57

Bones

Bones

GasBandit said:
Evil is a label the small minded place on those with the willingness to realize their dreams. :twisted:
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this is why I am rapidly evolving into a mad scientist.


#58

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

GasBandit said:
Evil is a label the small minded place on those with the willingness to realize their dreams. :twisted:
Click to expand...
Pretty much my life motto right there.


#59

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
Evil is a label the small minded place on those with the willingness to realize their dreams. :twisted:
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It is what the broad minded label people that desire shallow ends, and desire to hurt those around them.


#60

GasBandit

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
It is what the broad minded label people that desire shallow ends, and desire to hurt those around them.
Click to expand...
It is what the mundane label the inspiring. It is what the pliant label the uncompromising. It is what the sheep label the wolf. It is what the bonded label the free.


#61

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
It is what the mundane label the inspiring. It is what the pliant label the uncompromising. It is what the sheep label the wolf. It is what the bonded label the free.
Click to expand...
That is what I label a load of horseshit.


#62

GasBandit

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
That is what I label a load of horseshit.
Click to expand...
Haters gonna hate.


#63

Bones

Bones

yo gas, I am happy for ya and im gonna let ya finish, but sixpackshaker had the best comment ever!


#64

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

For all you guys worried about being 80 one day...

I present Dad on his 80th Birthday.



That's right, he bought a bicycle on his Birthday. And then proceeded to out ride his tween granddaughter.


#65

Chippy

Chippy

Get rich, party hard, die.


#66

Mathias

Mathias

Quantity doesn't equal quality. Fuck it, who says you have to lead a hollow existence if you're rich? If I was born rich, and had all the money in the world, I could do what Bruce Wayne did in Batman and live like the poor for a few years to appreciate what I have. Screw scraping by with the bare minimum. Money doesn't buy you the important things in life, but it's sure nice to live stress-free without having to waste a solid 40 years of your life in a cubicle - ultimately making some asshole at the top rich with your blood, sweat, and tears.

You're going to die in the end anyway. What's the point of living 40 more years if you're scraping by? You're just mortar for the rest of humanity at that point.
Added at: 19:57
Shannow said:
See what you rick fuckers say at 39 years and 364 days!
Click to expand...
Well, 39 years 364 days have come and gone. One day left on this Earth and due to my vast fortune I've been able to travel the world, meet interesting people, laugh, live, love, have children, a legacy, made an impact on this Earth that will ensure the memory of my existence endures like that of J.D. Rockefeller. I'm pretty much the living embodiment of this guy:


Luckily, I have found peace with my mortality from my visits to numerous and wondrous religious pilgrimages. Now I get to check out before old age ravages my mind and body. Enjoy shitting your pants at the old folks home when you're 80, you dumbass, play-it-safe fucks.


#67



Biannoshufu

eighty.
because you are dead a lot longer than you'll be alive. I still have books to read, and even the poor can hhve library cards. And actually, fuck yes I will enjoy shitting my pants when I'm older and have an excuse.


#68



4li3n

Mathias said:
If I was born rich, and had all the money in the world, I could do what Bruce Wayne did in Batman and live like the poor for a few years to appreciate what I have. Screw scraping by with the bare minimum.
Click to expand...
RELEVANT:



#69



makare

Mathias said:
Quantity doesn't equal quality. Fuck it, who says you have to lead a hollow existence if you're rich? If I was born rich, and had all the money in the world, I could do what Bruce Wayne did in Batman and live like the poor for a few years to appreciate what I have. Screw scraping by with the bare minimum. Money doesn't buy you the important things in life, but it's sure nice to live stress-free without having to waste a solid 40 years of your life in a cubicle - ultimately making some asshole at the top rich with your blood, sweat, and tears.

You're going to die in the end anyway. What's the point of living 40 more years if you're scraping by? You're just mortar for the rest of humanity at that point.
Added at: 19:57

Well, 39 years 364 days have come and gone. One day left on this Earth and due to my vast fortune I've been able to travel the world, meet interesting people, laugh, live, love, have children, a legacy, made an impact on this Earth that will ensure the memory of my existence endures like that of J.D. Rockefeller. I'm pretty much the living embodiment of this guy:


Luckily, I have found peace with my mortality from my visits to numerous and wondrous religious pilgrimages. Now I get to check out before old age ravages my mind and body. Enjoy shitting your pants at the old folks home when you're 80, you dumbass, play-it-safe fucks.
Click to expand...
Who is that guy?


#70

Frank

Frankie Williamson

The most interesting man in the world.


#71

Shannow

Shannow

Mathias said:
Quantity doesn't equal quality. Fuck it, who says you have to lead a hollow existence if you're rich? If I was born rich, and had all the money in the world, I could do what Bruce Wayne did in Batman and live like the poor for a few years to appreciate what I have. Screw scraping by with the bare minimum. Money doesn't buy you the important things in life, but it's sure nice to live stress-free without having to waste a solid 40 years of your life in a cubicle - ultimately making some asshole at the top rich with your blood, sweat, and tears.

You're going to die in the end anyway. What's the point of living 40 more years if you're scraping by? You're just mortar for the rest of humanity at that point.
Added at: 19:57

Well, 39 years 364 days have come and gone. One day left on this Earth and due to my vast fortune I've been able to travel the world, meet interesting people, laugh, live, love, have children, a legacy, made an impact on this Earth that will ensure the memory of my existence endures like that of J.D. Rockefeller. I'm pretty much the living embodiment of this guy:


Luckily, I have found peace with my mortality from my visits to numerous and wondrous religious pilgrimages. Now I get to check out before old age ravages my mind and body. Enjoy shitting your pants at the old folks home when you're 80, you dumbass, play-it-safe fucks.
Click to expand...
Again, doubtful.


#72

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Are you really "doubting" what someone would do with their imaginary scenario?

Who took a dump in your Cheerios? Further, why'd you still eat them?


#73

Bones

Bones

i am more amazed that Shannow and Mathias are not on the same page.

Shake and bake and all the good stuff


#74



Chibibar

Heh, the more I look into this, the more I am going with 40.

Here is my reasoning (sadly using my current state) All my life, I have been trying to make ends meet. I find a better secure job, buy us a house, a car and living somewhat comfortably BUT still have to go to work each day (sometimes over 40+ a week) SO I CAN afford all this stuff which I consider basic (A home, food, car, and my gaming needs heheheehe)

Now, if I was rich from the start, I wouldn't be working my butt off to make this happen. I would be able to pursue all the other stuff I want to do. Travel, reading, playing games, meet people and enjoy life without having to worry about will I be able to pay for my next mortgage on time or what would happen if I lose my job.

Currently I am not "scraping" by per the scenario given. I am low-middle income give or take and do better than average person, but my wife and I HAVE to work in order to maintain it unless we want to live in harsher condition (section 8 housing, food stamps, less luxury entertainment like video games and eating out)

So using my current knowledge (which in theory cheating in the scenario) I would rather be rich and able to do all the things I wanted to which I MIGHT be able to do, but I have to save for (like taking my wife to see the rest of the worlds and world wonders)


#75

GasBandit

GasBandit

Shegokigo said:
Are you really "doubting" what someone would do with their imaginary scenario?

Who took a dump in your Cheerios? Further, why'd you still eat them?
Click to expand...
He's shannow. He goes looking for dumped-in-cheerios, specifically so he can act like somebody dumped in his cheerios.


#76

Morphine

Morphine

80 years knowing that no matter how hard I work I'll never be able to afford the adventures I like? no thanks.
If I'm going to live for 40 years I'm going to make them count and money will help me in that process.
Man, the places I'd visit...


#77



Chibibar

Morphine said:
80 years knowing that no matter how hard I work I'll never be able to afford the adventures I like? no thanks.
If I'm going to live for 40 years I'm going to make them count and money will help me in that process.
Man, the places I'd visit...
Click to expand...
Scraping by - trying to make ends meet. Rent, food, basic necessity = No movie nights, no eating out, no vacation to exotic places (or even out of state since gas prices are high)

That is my logic. That means pretty much no matter what I do in terms of education, contacts, network, or anything, I will always be scraping by. Of course if the original question was stated differently (i.e. I am guarantee long life to 80 and able to get to places vs 40 and start out rich, then I may pick 80.


#78

GasBandit

GasBandit

Yeah, if it was 80 years of self-determinism, I'd take that over 40 years of guaranteed wealth. But that's not what I understood the question to be.


#79



makare

I'd rather live the 80. Being with friends and family longer is more important to me than going places and having stuff.


#80



Chibibar

makare said:
I'd rather live the 80. Being with friends and family longer is more important to me than going places and having stuff.
Click to expand...
Ah but assuming you can SEE your friends and family (if you are scraping by, it might be hard to visit them depending on distant) also your work schedule might prohibit you from seeing them.

Of course scraping by is subjective, it could mean 80 hour work week to scrap by.


#81



makare

I know many people who are scraping by, in fact most of the people I know/are related to are scraping by and their lives are full and enjoyable. They may not go on vacations to exotic places but why is that such a big deal? I plan to make some good money as a lawyer someday and travel is still not something I want to do with my money anyway.
Also, when you don't have much you learn to enjoy the things you do have. And even when my family was at our poorest food stamps, commodities, housing assistance, church charity stage we still visited our family in other towns.


#82



Chibibar

makare said:
I know many people who are scraping by, in fact most of the people I know/are related to are scraping by and their lives are full and enjoyable. They may not go on vacations to exotic places but why is that such a big deal? I plan to make some good money as a lawyer someday and travel is still not something I want to do with my money anyway.
Also, when you don't have much you learn to enjoy the things you do have. And even when my family was at our poorest food stamps, commodities, housing assistance, church charity stage we still visited our family in other towns.
Click to expand...
I guess we view the question differently.

I was going by my experience where we don't have these charity to help out (being in Thailand) so scraping by is REALLY scraping by. I have eaten left over in garbage to survive. That is my definition of scraping by. I even stole food to survive. So I guess the question would be how much scraping are we talking about?

Do we have to live under a bridge (did that) or in the streets in shanty town? (my wife and I did that separately since her family use to live in tents. I use to live in cardboard boxes and gutter, but we both vow never happen again and work hard to elevate ourselves beyond that.)

Now when pose with questions like this I usually take the literal approach (the worst condition possible) and run with it.

Edit: now of course if this was in the States, then yea. I can see the advantages of scraping by with government help with food stamps and housing, but what if these options are not available?


#83



makare

I think of scraping by as pay check to pay check living with a big debt chasing you.


#84



Chibibar

makare said:
I think of scraping by as pay check to pay check living with a big debt chasing you.
Click to expand...
Ah :) that is where we differ in the terms. So going by your definition, I say 80 then cause that is what I'm doing now (well not THAT big of a debt but enough like school loans and mortgage and some CC)

my version of scraping by: I say 40 with tons of money.


#85

Frank

Frankie Williamson

makare said:
I think of scraping by as pay check to pay check living with a big debt chasing you.
Click to expand...
So 90% of North America is scraping by?


#86



makare

If you are one missed pay check from financial ruin then yeah you are scraping by.


#87



Chibibar

Frankie Williamson said:
So 90% of North America is scraping by?
Click to expand...
Hehe. Pretty much.


#88



makare

Yeah scraping by is really relative if you think about it. I know people with huge fancy houses and lots of stuff who are in so much insurmountable debt that their financial situation is so precarious that I would consider them scraping by, by the skin of their teeth. Saw a lot of people like that crash and burn when unemployment rose.


#89



Chibibar

makare said:
Yeah scraping by is really relative if you think about it. I know people with huge fancy houses and lots of stuff who are in so much insurmountable debt that their financial situation is so precarious that I would consider them scraping by, by the skin of their teeth. Saw a lot of people like that crash and burn when unemployment rose.
Click to expand...
Yea but to me, those people "scraping by" cause they are indulging beyond their means (heck I do that too with my CC bills)

I think some of us (at least me) think of it more than you just have basic necessities and nothing lavish. So I wouldn't have a big house (more like section 8 housing or something) with a job that pays minimum wages. No means of elevating myself which is part of the restriction (i.e. getting salary job to get out of the poor level). No opportunity of getting break essentially.

but, by your definition, we are scrapping by cause we are living from paycheck to paycheck with little means of backup plan (working on it we do have some savings) BUT we do own a home, we have TONS of entertainment (cable, iphones, ipads, PCs, laptops, books and huge DVD collection, PS3, Wii and PS2)


#90



makare

I guess I just think about the reality of the situation. You can have things but be so close to losing them that the only thing keeping it from happening is just plain luck. I don't see scraping by as just having nothing but being on the absolute brink of having nothing.


#91

Adam

Adammon

makare said:
If you are one missed pay check from financial ruin then yeah you are scraping by.
Click to expand...
That's more the rule than the exception for a large bulk of people now.


#92

Frank

Frankie Williamson

makare said:
I guess I just think about the reality of the situation. You can have things but be so close to losing them that the only thing keeping it from happening is just plain luck. I don't see scraping by as just having nothing but being on the absolute brink of having nothing.
Click to expand...
So you see scraping by as being able to live responsibly but choosing not to and living beyond your means to the edge of your own downfall?


#93



makare

Frankie Williamson said:
So you see scraping by as being able to live responsibly but choosing not to and living beyond your means to the edge of your own downfall?
Click to expand...
I don't think that is the only way of scraping by just the most common one.


#94



Chibibar

makare said:
I guess I just think about the reality of the situation. You can have things but be so close to losing them that the only thing keeping it from happening is just plain luck. I don't see scraping by as just having nothing but being on the absolute brink of having nothing.
Click to expand...
You know, you got me thinking.

How did we get to this place?
I use to remember in Thailand there isn't a credit card (well back in 80s- early 90s) at least with my family. We use cash only. The only exception is getting bank loan for a house or business, but no credit cards. Everything use cash.

Since I was very poor and came to the states. I discover credit card (which is a bad thing) and indulge in things I never have before. It is my own fault of where I am now. I use to remember the old days when you want something you SAVE for it. Now, you can get it NOW and pay for it later (or much later)


#95



makare

I borked myself with credit cards so thoroughly a few years ago that the minimum payment on ONE of my cards was 1000 dollars. I had to go to debt management and I have worked my ass off redeeming my credit. Now my credit is excellent. I just got my first credit card, a store card, in years. I am going to do my best to be responsible and NEVER EVER fuck myself as royally as I did back then.


#96

Frank

Frankie Williamson

makare said:
I don't think that is the only way of scraping by just the most common one.
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But that isn't really scraping by, that's just being fucking stupid and irresponsible.


#97



makare

Frankie Williamson said:
But that isn't really scraping by, that's just being fucking stupid and irresponsible.
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so the only way to scrape by is for the universe to shit on you at no fault of your own?


#98



Chibibar

makare said:
so the only way to scrape by is for the universe to shit on you at no fault of your own?
Click to expand...
Well, it all depends on the original scenario I guess.

By forces of nature/mysticism/controlled environment
You are guarantee to live up to 80 but scraping by. So I would assume, we won't die from natural causes until 80. No serious illness or something like that, but always be poor (again subjective)
Or live to 40 (again die automatically at 40) but having all the resources available to you to do what you will AND still have plenty left over when you die (note: and still be rich) this means your children and children children will be taken care of.


#99

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

tldr: people overthinking the question is like explaining a joke.


#100



makare

thinkings is fun


#101



Chibibar

Shegokigo said:
tldr: people overthinking the question is like explaining a joke.
Click to expand...
Heh. I guess I'm justifying why I chose the answer I did.

So in Makare's world - I choose 80 and struggle
in Chibibar's world - I chose 40 and be rich


#102

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Also, in Makare's world you could easily be upper/middle class and live to 80 as long as you are irresponsible.


#103

Mathias

Mathias

I still can't believe that people fall for the bullshit Titanic-like stereotype that rich people are somehow unfilled because they lead nothing but shallow lives. Being wealthy doesn't mean you lead a hollow existence full of phonies to pander to. That's what poor people tell themselves to feel better about being poor. "Yeehaw, we're poor as shit and get raped everyday by rich people and the government, but hey at least we've got each other. Boy, howdy, my life sure has more depth to it because I've been stuck in the same Shitwater town all my life and pick lint out of my bellybutton."

I'm not rich by any means, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that my life wouldn't be better if I was completely absolved of financial worries.


#104



makare

Frankie Williamson said:
Also, in makare's world you could easily be upper/middle class and live to 80 as long as you are average.
Click to expand...
ftfy

Mathias said:
I still can't believe that people fall for the bullshit Titanic-like stereotype that rich people are somehow unfilled because they lead nothing but shallow lives. Being wealthy doesn't mean you lead a hollow existence full of phonies to pander to. That's what poor people tell themselves to feel better about being poor. "Yeehaw, we're poor as shit and get raped everyday by rich people and the government, but hey at least we've got each other. Boy, howdy, my life sure has more depth to it because I've been stuck in the same Shitwater town all my life and pick lint out of my bellybutton."

I'm not rich by any means, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that my life wouldn't be better if I was completely absolved of financial worries.
Click to expand...
Maybe it would be "better" but that's really worth losing 40 years of life? Also, just because you are poor doesn't mean you are miserable and trodden upon. Some people are just poor. They work, they live, they die. Just like people always have.


#105

Mathias

Mathias

makare said:
ftfy

Maybe it would be "better" but that's really worth losing 40 years of life? Also, just because you are poor doesn't mean you are miserable and trodden upon. Some people are just poor. They work, they live, they die. Just like people always have.
Click to expand...
Quality of life > Quantity of life. Scraping by is not quality. In the end everyone dies. Why not enjoy the ride?


#106

Null

Null

I like the idea of a short and gloriously wealthy life, though I'd rather not die soon. But a long and fruitless life holds little charm, either. I don't really care about wealth for the sake of wealth, though I can't deny I like some of the things it can get you. I'd like to think I would choose the long and difficult life - but I probably wouldn't.


#107

Adam

Adammon

Mathias said:
Quality of life > Quantity of life. Scraping by is not quality. In the end everyone dies. Why not enjoy the ride?
Click to expand...
Because it stops just as it's getting good? 40 is young! Shit, you're almost there yourself. Think of things you'd miss out on if you were dead in 4 years.


#108



makare

I guess I don't know what your definition of scraping by is either. Having to work hard to make money doesn't mean your life sucks in my opinion.

With the 40 option probably wouldnt want to have kids you'd miss so much :(


#109

Mathias

Mathias

Adammon said:
Because it stops just as it's getting good? 40 is young! Shit, you're almost there yourself. Think of things you'd miss out on if you were dead in 4 years.
Click to expand...
Dude I'm only 30! I'd have a solid 10 years to get my affairs in order.


#110

GasBandit

GasBandit

ITT: the sourest of grapes.


#111

Adam

Adammon

Mathias said:
Dude I'm only 30! I'd have a solid 10 years to get my affairs in order.
Click to expand...
Shit, I could have sworn you were older than me.


#112

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Can I split the difference? 60 ain't all that bad, and then a little cash.


#113

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Young or old, you can't take that fortune with you.

I'd be happier to live on longer and be appreciative of what I do have, rather than what's next to buy.
Added at: 18:17
Also, by Jay's wording, "scraping by" doesn't mean destitude or homeless. It sounds like, while money might be tight, basic necessities would be met. Sometimes, that's good enough.


#114

GasBandit

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
Can I split the difference? 60 ain't all that bad, and then a little cash.
Click to expand...
That kinda defeats the entire purpose of the excercise. The point here is to force you to choose between extremes.

ThatNickGuy said:
Young or old, you can't take that fortune with you.

I'd be happier to live on longer and be appreciative of what I do have, rather than what's next to buy.
Click to expand...
"You can't take it with you" is only an argument against saving, not spending. It's an argument FOR spending. And to spend... you have to HAVE it.

The 80 option, as I see it, is having an additional 40 years to appreciate what you have - that which you have, of course, being ulcers, migraines, cancer, arthritis, pain, struggle, want, and financial near-ruin while you work every day just to barely keep body and soul together until the day you die, proving it was all futile in any case. The 40 option is half as long, but infinitely more enjoyable - and it doesn't have to be in a shallow manner, either. There is absolutely no worthwhile pursuit that can be made by a person that isn't accomplished a great deal easier with money.


#115

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Why would the money mean life would be infintely more enjoyable? As the adage goes, money doesn't buy happiness.


#116

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

ThatNickGuy said:
Why would the money mean life would be infintely more enjoyable? As the adage goes, money doesn't buy happiness.
Click to expand...
No, but Gas could buy a lot of whores with the proceeds, then die of AIDS art 40.


#117

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Because there's a pleasant way to die.


#118

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Why would the money mean life would be infintely more enjoyable? As the adage goes, money doesn't buy happiness.
Click to expand...
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it pays for rent/mortgage, car payments, insurance, medical bills, higher education, leisure activity, capital expenses... it doesn't buy happiness, it pays for your expenses while you find happiness. Unless you think happiness will just find you while you work unseen in a grease pit for 10 hours a day, coming home too tired to cook or clean or do anything else, watching your kids flunk out of community college and having to choose between fixing the car or buying medication.


#119

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

If you can't find happiness in a grease pit, you won't find it anywhere else.


#120

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I didn't realize a higher education or owning a car led to happiness. I've seen a lot of happy people who have neither. I've never owned a car. Does that make me unhappy by default?

Who's to say your kids would flunk out of community college just because you're scraping by? Depending on the kid, they might go on to have relatively successful lives, with or without you. That's a flawed argument right there, man.

I'll conscend to the medical expenses, though. Then again, I'm also Canadian, where a visit to the doctor doesn't cost you an arm and a leg (possibly literally), so I'm coming from a different manner of thinking, there.


#121

Chad Sexington

Chad Sexington

Aren't there studies showing that happiness levels are basically the same once the needs for food, shelter and sanitation are met? You'd definitely have it easier, but not necessarily find yourself any happier.


#122

Shannow

Shannow

Im not dumping on anything. I just think that the feeling of preservation of ones own life, on those last minutes of that last day, most would probably have given it up for just more time. That is all. To say the whole fulfillment and what not now is one thing, but it is a whole other thing at those last moments. Sorry, I thought my point was bvious there, but I guess it was not, and it just seemed like I was "dumping."

Also, Magic Man stole my wife. And my house.


#123

Mathias

Mathias

Shannow said:
Im not dumping on anything. I just think that the feeling of preservation of ones own life, on those last minutes of that last day, most would probably have given it up for just more time. That is all. To say the whole fulfillment and what not now is one thing, but it is a whole other thing at those last moments. Sorry, I thought my point was bvious there, but I guess it was not, and it just seemed like I was "dumping."

Also, Magic Man stole my wife. And my house.
Click to expand...
Hey, one more thing...

When you have the stereo on at the same time as the TV, how do you control the volume of the TV? I'm takin' care of your house good.


#124

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Hey Shannow, I want you to say.... "I love crepes"!


#125

Shannow

Shannow

Mathias said:
Hey, one more thing...

When you have the stereo on at the same time as the TV, how do you control the volume of the TV? I'm takin' care of your house good.
Click to expand...
Why would you want to have the stereo and the TV on at the same time?


#126

doomdragon6

doomdragon6

Let's assume for a moment that "scraping by" is minimum wage, which here, is $7.50/hour. If you work 40 hours a week every week for a year, which most people do, you're making $14,400 per year. Or, $1,200 a month.

That's what I live on right now. $1,200 per month. And I live well. I have a nice, comportable apartment, and this amount covers rent, water, electricity, internet, and MUCH MORE! I have enough money to do whatever or buy whatever I care to without "really" worrying about it. As a matter of fact, I've been too lazy to go grocery shopping this month and I've been eating almost nothing but fast food each day-- and I pay for my girlfriend every time. And I STILL have money at the end of the month. If I weren't that extravagant, I could probably pay car payments and insurance and all that, with just enough left over "just in case."

If scraping by is minimum wage, it would be doable to live like that your whole life. (In this magical realm where you somehow cannot progress to a better job. Again, I just cannot see not making my situation better.)

Chibibar's scraping by, however, sounds pretty bad.


#127

Mathias

Mathias

Shannow said:
Why would you want to have the stereo and the TV on at the same time?
Click to expand...
Because I like to party.



#128

Frank

Frankie Williamson

doomdragon6 said:
Let's assume for a moment that "scraping by" is minimum wage, which here, is $7.50/hour. If you work 40 hours a week every week for a year, which most people do, you're making $14,400 per year. Or, $1,200 a month.

That's what I live on right now. $1,200 per month. And I live well. I have a nice, comportable apartment, and this amount covers rent, water, electricity, internet, and MUCH MORE! I have enough money to do whatever or buy whatever I care to without "really" worrying about it. As a matter of fact, I've been too lazy to go grocery shopping this month and I've been eating almost nothing but fast food each day-- and I pay for my girlfriend every time. And I STILL have money at the end of the month. If I weren't that extravagant, I could probably pay car payments and insurance and all that, with just enough left over "just in case."

If scraping by is minimum wage, it would be doable to live like that your whole life. (In this magical realm where you somehow cannot progress to a better job. Again, I just cannot see not making my situation better.)

Chibibar's scraping by, however, sounds pretty bad.
Click to expand...
Have a kid.


#129



makare

Frankie Williamson said:
Have a kid.
Click to expand...
I think frankie is just looking for love


#130

Shannow

Shannow

Shegokigo said:
Hey Shannow, I want you to say.... "I love crepes"!
Click to expand...
Holding hands with a man makes me terribly uncomfortable.



#131

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Shannow said:
Holding hands with a man makes me terribly uncomfortable.
Click to expand...
I AM HANZ!

COME, SOLDIER! WE HOLD!



#132

Shannow

Shannow

ThatNickGuy said:
I AM HANZ!

COME, SOLDIER! WE HOLD!

Click to expand...
:facepalm:


#133

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

:D


#134

Chippy

Chippy

Mathias said:
Because I like to party.
Click to expand...


#135

Shannow

Shannow



#136

Chippy

Chippy

I'm aware, I was approving of the banter.


#137



Chibibar

doomdragon6 said:
Let's assume for a moment that "scraping by" is minimum wage, which here, is $7.50/hour. If you work 40 hours a week every week for a year, which most people do, you're making $14,400 per year. Or, $1,200 a month.

That's what I live on right now. $1,200 per month. And I live well. I have a nice, comportable apartment, and this amount covers rent, water, electricity, internet, and MUCH MORE! I have enough money to do whatever or buy whatever I care to without "really" worrying about it. As a matter of fact, I've been too lazy to go grocery shopping this month and I've been eating almost nothing but fast food each day-- and I pay for my girlfriend every time. And I STILL have money at the end of the month. If I weren't that extravagant, I could probably pay car payments and insurance and all that, with just enough left over "just in case."

If scraping by is minimum wage, it would be doable to live like that your whole life. (In this magical realm where you somehow cannot progress to a better job. Again, I just cannot see not making my situation better.)

Chibibar's scraping by, however, sounds pretty bad.
Click to expand...
Heck, if that is scraping by then yea I will take 80 in a heartbeat :)

I think the base question is valid. It makes us think what is consider important.

I am NOT saying that people can't find happiness without money (it is possible and personal outlook) but if a person is so busy "scraping by" (I will put into quotes since we don't have a set definition) sometimes people overlook the good thing in life. In America (that I notice) people are so busy trying to be the next Joneses or whatever. People consume beyond their means just to "keep up"

My wife and I makes over 5k a month, but with mortgage, bills and such 3.5k goes out and the rest goes into grocery (too lazy to cook after 40 minute commute each way and work out) gas (which is around 400$ a month) and little savings.

Being financially free can lead to some happiness (one less stress for sure)


#138

GasBandit

GasBandit

Money problems are the leading cause of stress and marital disharmony. Just taking out those two things alone does wonders for the existential search for true bliss.


#139



Chibibar

GasBandit said:
Money problems are the leading cause of stress and marital disharmony. Just taking out those two things alone does wonders for the existential search for true bliss.
Click to expand...
Agree. So far my wife and I promise each other never to argue about money (even when we are tight sometimes) so that is one less stress :)
I know couple of my friends are falling out due to money issue.


#140

Terrik

Terrik

Yeah....I had problems with my girlfriend not too long ago over money...mostly because she wanted to help me save it, but in the Chinese way, which meant handing it over to her for safe keeping, something I wasn't entirely comfortable with. A wife, I can see that, but a girlfriend is different. To more traditionally minded Chinese girls however, that is a very small distinction. In the end I trusted her enough not to run off with it and reasoned that If I didn't trust her then I had no business being with her. Under her *ahem* plan, I should be able to save a good bit and I'm going to try to put it towards getting another degree in the future and truth be told i might be impulsive enough to spend it if I had the opportunity so maybe it's best I keep my mouth shut.


#141

doomdragon6

doomdragon6

As for saving money here, I just have two accounts. One is the "I made this" account, and the other is the "x percent of 1st account goes in here" and I put the card to Account 2 somewhere so that it's not just "on" me. Thus I save money, and I don't feel compelled to touch it. It happens every month, so I don't feel like I'm getting less money than usual.


#142



Chibibar

you know. I was having a conversation with my wife on this topic. While the original scenario is extreme to extreme, we review on WHY we are in the current state.

What we have discover is that when Maron moved to Texas, she didn't have anything and I had little money. So we use credit card to get her going. Of course this became a habit even after she got a job and a place to live. We gotta have furniture ;) it is a vicious circle really.

We finally paid off some but still have a few more to go. We are hoping to clear them all out by 2-3 years or less ;)

The question is why do have to live like this? We broke down the numbers and see what is the minimum require to "live as is" without debts
* "Live as is" would be mortgage, insurance, life insurance, utilities (electric, water, gas, cable and internet+phones)
we break down the gas cost and food.

The question would be can we live with less and thus save more. Maybe we can "retire" early and reduce our budget to a minimum (house will be paid off in 12 years)
It is possible but it will take some work.


#143

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

GasBandit said:
Money problems are the leading cause of stress and marital disharmony. Just taking out those two things alone does wonders for the existential search for true bliss.
Click to expand...
So, you are going to take the wife out of the equation?


#144



Chibibar

sixpackshaker said:
So, you are going to take the wife out of the equation?
Click to expand...
You know what is interesting? sometimes when people are stressing over money on their own it is not too bad, but when you have people depend on you (spouse, kids, extended family, friends) then it can be stressful.


#145

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

My statement also plays to what a lot of the rich guys I know say about their wives... It don't matter how much money you make. If you are unlucky you can find a woman that can out spend you.


#146

GasBandit

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
My statement also plays to what a lot of the rich guys I know say about their wives... It don't matter how much money you make. If you are unlucky you can find a woman that can out spend you.
Click to expand...
I don't think you even have to be unlucky to find one. Fortunately, I have not. Although, if we take the rules of the question as binding, if you only can "scrape by" and never hope to increase your wealth... shouldn't the opposite be true and the 40 year option would be wealthy such that even no wife of any sort could possibly spend it all? Unthinkable as it may be.


#147



Chibibar

GasBandit said:
I don't think you even have to be unlucky to find one. Fortunately, I have not. Although, if we take the rules of the question as binding, if you only can "scrape by" and never hope to increase your wealth... shouldn't the opposite be true and the 40 year option would be wealthy such that even no wife of any sort could possibly spend it all? Unthinkable as it may be.
Click to expand...
that is what I'm thinking hence my initial answer of 40 :) go nuts. Can you imagine how much good I can do with that much wealth?


#148

Mathias

Mathias

doomdragon6 said:
Let's assume for a moment that "scraping by" is minimum wage, which here, is $7.50/hour. If you work 40 hours a week every week for a year, which most people do, you're making $14,400 per year. Or, $1,200 a month.

That's what I live on right now. $1,200 per month. And I live well. I have a nice, comportable apartment, and this amount covers rent, water, electricity, internet, and MUCH MORE! I have enough money to do whatever or buy whatever I care to without "really" worrying about it. As a matter of fact, I've been too lazy to go grocery shopping this month and I've been eating almost nothing but fast food each day-- and I pay for my girlfriend every time. And I STILL have money at the end of the month. If I weren't that extravagant, I could probably pay car payments and insurance and all that, with just enough left over "just in case."

If scraping by is minimum wage, it would be doable to live like that your whole life. (In this magical realm where you somehow cannot progress to a better job. Again, I just cannot see not making my situation better.)

Chibibar's scraping by, however, sounds pretty bad.
Click to expand...
$7.50 an hour @ 40 hours a week is $15,600 a year; you're also not taking out the solid 3 grand that the fed, medicare, and social security take a wet bite outta your ass for. I'd argue that's about $12600 a year or about 242 a weekly paycheck or about $969 a month.

Where in the hell do you live that you can get by nicely on 900-1000 bucks a month? I blow about 1200 a month on my mortgage alone, and I live a solid hour from any major city in a normal middle class neighborhood. Hell, apartments in the shitty ends of Philadelphia start at like 600 a month. If we're talking my version of scraping by with maintaining some sort of resemblance of the American Dream - one car garage, 1500 sq ft house with a white picket fence - then we're talking at least 3 grand a month combined income, after taxes.

That to me is scraping by - just able to keep your head above water without keeping up with the Jones'. Scraping by = about 36k a year for a family of four. Living the good life = 100k a year for a family of four. Yo is rich sucka = 250k + for a family of four that if they were taxed like the 30k-80k bracket, would be taking home only about 150k.
Added at: 19:05
GasBandit said:
I don't think you even have to be unlucky to find one. Fortunately, I have not. Although, if we take the rules of the question as binding, if you only can "scrape by" and never hope to increase your wealth... shouldn't the opposite be true and the 40 year option would be wealthy such that even no wife of any sort could possibly spend it all? Unthinkable as it may be.
Click to expand...
Well, that's what I assumed the OP implied. You die wealthy. I would die a happy man knowing that my kids and wife would be financial stable and secure long after I'm gone.


#149

phil

phil

Mathias said:
$7.50 an hour @ 40 hours a week is $15,600 a year; you're also not taking out the solid 3 grand that the fed, medicare, and social security take a wet bite outta your ass for. I'd argue that's about $12600 a year or about 242 a weekly paycheck or about $969 a month.

Where in the hell do you live that you can get by nicely on 900-1000 bucks a month? I blow about 1200 a month on my mortgage alone, and I live a solid hour from any major city in a normal middle class neighborhood. Hell, apartments in the shitty ends of Philadelphia start at like 600 a month. If we're talking my version of scraping by with maintaining some sort of resemblance of the American Dream - one car garage, 1500 sq ft house with a white picket fence - then we're talking at least 3 grand a month combined income, after taxes.
Click to expand...
That's also assuming the place you work at can afford to keep you around for 40 hours. My Dunkin Donuts has been going down in sales for a bit and now most people are looking at 20-30 hours a week.

Plus min. wage is only 7.25. Not THAT much of a difference but it comes out to a month's rent every year depending on where you live.

I'm able to get by, mostly due to not having any debt. Car is paid off, don't have any student loans, still on my folk's insurance etc. This allows me to save a bit and I haven't been hurt by cutting back on hours.

Still though, living to 80 like this? I don't think I'd want to do that.


#150

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Scraping by, still working past 60? What are you going to be a Wal-Mart greeter?

Again, to those who cherish family over everythingelse, they won't mind coming home every night after that.


#151

Terrik

Terrik

Well hey, my grandfather is 88 and still gets up to work every morning. Although I suppose it helps that his work is a tool company he started (Reed Tool and Die--for anyone that lives in Penn.), and it helps that he built has house on top of the shop.


#152

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Starting your own company and running it doesn't exactly = the "scraping by" part of the question.


#153



makare

Seriously people some of the comments in this thread in fact most of them are NOT actually referencing the original question. We are just having a general conversation about the issues the question raises.


#154

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Discussions die fast if you stick to the shallow topic at hand.


#155



Chibibar

makare said:
Seriously people some of the comments in this thread in fact most of them are NOT actually referencing the original question. We are just having a general conversation about the issues the question raises.
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Actually, I do believe that is the point of the questions. (if we were in a philosophy class) Generally you get people to start choosing one or the other (no middle ground) and then people talk about WHY they chose this way. It is a good way to learn about people and their thinking.

We can see already that many of us are family oriented people. We look after our own and want to cherish that as long as you can. Some of us look at the "bigger picture" (like me) and hoping that after I'm gone, my family is well off regardless of the economic downturn or dependence of my working. Heaven forbid they need to survive off my Social Security check! ugh.


#156

GasBandit

GasBandit

Shegokigo said:
Starting your own company and running it doesn't exactly = the "scraping by" part of the question.
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It does if the company doesn't do very well.


#157

TommiR

TommiR

Chibibar said:
We can see already that many of us are family oriented people. We look after our own and want to cherish that as long as you can. Some of us look at the "bigger picture" (like me) and hoping that after I'm gone, my family is well off regardless of the economic downturn or dependence of my working. Heaven forbid they need to survive off my Social Security check! ugh.
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This is a valid way of looking at it. Another take on a "bigger picture" view might be to think that your family needs a good husband and father / wife and mother beyond the age of 40 more than they need to be filthy rich. And believing that the best gift a parent can give to their children is providing them with the immaterial tools of succeeding in life, rather than a fat bank account.

Though if success in life is measured by the amount of property one has, then of course leaving your offspring with oodles of material goods means they will automatically be more successful than they'd likely be if you stuck around for 40 more years, no matter how good you were at raising children.


#158



Chibibar

TommiR said:
This is a valid way of looking at it. Another take on a "bigger picture" view might be to think that your family needs a good husband and father / wife and mother beyond the age of 40 more than they need to be filthy rich. And believing that the best gift a parent can give to their children is providing them with the immaterial tools of succeeding in life, rather than a fat bank account.

Though if success in life is measured by the amount of property one has, then of course leaving your offspring with oodles of material goods means they will automatically be more successful than they'd likely be if you stuck around for 40 more years, no matter how good you were at raising children.
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Agree.
The only counter would be if you are not busy "scraping by" the parent would actually have TIME to be with their children and raise them.
Note: The following is observation of my own sister and her son for I am not blessed with children of my own yet.

My sister and her husband work to keep a home. My nephew goes to daycare during the weekdays. Now the interaction does him good, but during the early years, the mind is still "moldable" I remember reading somewhere that after a certain age, it is hard to "change" their basic nature. So with the vast wealth, parent(s) can teach their kids at a good pace without worries and don't have the stress of paying child care.
Note: my sister currently paying around 600$ a month for daycare.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I am in NO WAY SAYING SHAPE OR FORM. That parents who are working and daycare doesn't raise good kids. (With this forum I have to make it clear since some people will imply that). Not all children are alike. Yes there are studies/report that even with parents being home all the time, some kids turn out bad, some turn out good. I don't have the answers to that, but that is part of my thinking.

What I do know that lack of money DOES cause some stress, now unlike other people (not on this forum) I realize I brought this upon myself and thus does not invoke the wrath on my spouse. Thus we don't have marital stress due to money (actually we don't have much really)


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