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Today I had a pretty interesting talk with some members of the family and it seemed a consensus among them that spanking is the best way to educate a kid. However, I grew up with the silent treatment, where my mother would ignore me to the level of me grovelling and asking her to beat me instead, and my siblings grew up with the punishment/reward system (something like a new Nintendo DS/PSP if you get first in school, no tv/computer if you fail a subject) but it seems among my family, we're the only ones that dont beat the kids.

Anyway, its one thing to help out with educating the siblings, another for me to educate my own kid, so Im curious to know, how were you educated?

And how do you educate your kids?

Heh. Education? Wrong word to describe spanking.

My parents used spankings as punishment. It was a bit subjective, though. If we broke something and lied about it, we'd get spanked. If we told the truth and apologized, we did not. Stuff like that.

Mostly my parents saved spanking for when we really fucked up, except when they were arguing with each other, and then anything might set it off.

With my cousins, it was basically last resort, if they keep misbehaving despite losing toys, dessert, timeouts... and then it was mainly to make a point, NOT to harm.

It's not educational; it's punishment. Using it often loses its impact. At some point, it stopped affecting me. My mom whipped out the wooden spoon (big salad serving thing) and whacked me with it, and I didn't react, cry, anything. She never spanked me again, because it just didn't work at that point.

My kids knew if I said they would get a spanking they would. I would NEVER say they were going to and then not. Their mom did that and they ran roughshod over her.

Here's how I did it.

I would have them come over to me and stand why I told them why they were getting the swat. Then they had to lay across my lap and not struggle. If they struggled they got 2. (This was because when Zach was little he struggled and instead of making the loud *pop* noise on his diaper I ended up swatting his back. I felt very, very guilty and vowed never to do that again.)

You can ask my son or daughter how often I had to resort to the swat. It was very seldom. They are both extremely polite and well mannered and if they weren't they'd hear about it.

I grew up in a stronghanded Catholic home, so yeah, we were all spanked.

With me growing up, punishments were more creative and usually pretty effective, though I was a pretty good kid anyway so it never came up that often. Usually misbehavior was met with the loss of privilege such as watching tv, playing games, earlier bed times and so on. Usually the punishment would try to fit the crime too, in a manner of speaking that is. If we had failing grades, we would lose some set of privileges until an official report from the school said otherwise. If I didn't clean my room for long enough, some of my things would just get tossed out.

I don't think I'd ever spank my kids. I admit it would probably be a good deterrent but only for so long and would probably do more harm than good. The way I see it, is that kids are going to mess up no matter how you treat them, so threatening them with physical violence just means that when they do mess up they're going to do everything in their power to make sure they aren't caught or at least aren't blamed.

I'd say the 2nd reason I wouldn't spank my kids is because there's such a fine line between punishment and child abuse. Is one hard swat ok, but 3 medium ones too much? How many is breaking the lamp worth, vs say, making an F? They say not to spank your kids while you're angry to avoid going overboard, but doesn't that defeat the purpose? If my kids did something wrong, and I sent them to their room for 10 minutes while I cooled down about the fact THEN came in and beat them it would seem like so much after the fact that I wouldn't see the point really. So honestly I'd say just avoid whole thing and find some other form of punishment.


also, in before the lock. I'm guessing 3 pages tops.

I was never spanked growing up.

And I turned out horrible.

I wasn't spanked, and I believe the same applied to my siblings (can't really say; I was the family evenstar/runt of the litter, 10-14 years younger than everybody else). I guess I was born with a hyperactive conscience, since I usually went to great lengths to hide if I had done something wrong or apologize immediately because it felt so bad. You know, little stuff like breaking glasses and such... If anything, I was too kind a child, since I basically ended up being the collective doormat in elementary school and was actually told to toughen up. If I did do something wrong and got caught without apologizing first, it usually meant losing certain privileges for the night... like no computer and such.

The only form of physical punishment I've witnessed in my family circle have been what in Finnish are called "bone button" and "hairing", used by my sister to her children. The first is giving a sharp flick with your index finger to the temple (the name comes from it being lesser than a "bone fiver", aka a knuckle sandwich), which smarts nicely but doesn't actually hurt. The latter is getting a firm hold of the child's hair, right down to the scalp. No pulling or twisting, just holding her (more likely since boys' hair is usually short-cropped) still to listen. Once given, usually a threat thereof has been sufficient. "Stop running around or Momma's gonna hair ya!", that kinda thing.

If I was spanked ten times my entire time growing up, I would think that's a lot. That said, spanking was on the table as a punishment. I feel like it is a tactic which I would employ, if needed.

That said, when I was spanked, it was only ever by my mother. If I was bad, got spanked, and kept on misbehaving, the warning was "Wait until your father gets home." I honestly thought my dad was a motherfucking god when I was a kid, sort of on the same level as Thor. Needless to say, it never became necessary for my father to spank.

Physical punishment can work as an extreme deterrent and last resort, but I think it's much more effective to show a kid how they messed up practically as their punishment. IE, taking away their allowance if they get an F because, boy, you better learn to be poor if yer not gonna try in school, and so forth.

If you just hit your kid when they do something wrong(or just when they piss you off) it doesn't teach them anything but to endeavor to lie to you when they do the wrong thing so they don't get hit. It also shows them that violence is always a valid solution if you're too damn stupid to think of anything else. Resentment and deceit is all I learned from frequent physical punishment, anyway.

Dave's description is basically how I was 'educated.' (which makes sense since he's in his mid 70s...ha ha) Minus the whole two parents thing.

My mom spanked me all of three times. I remember all three. When she said "Do 'X' or you'll get a spanking" she meant it. It was rare though because she made it abundantly clear what the rules are.

Also I was never punished for getting an F in a class since that wasn't an option.

Generally just loss of privileges. I was never really "spanked" but I was hit from time to time until my mom felt bad and stopped. I can't say I blame her for having done it though, I was a little shit.

While I shan't be so presumptuous as to say what will ultimately transpire should I ever become a parent (perish the thought), I've always hoped to avoid spanking. It just seems as though there are other options.

Personally, I was sent to my room a lot when I got mad as a kid. I could stomp around and let off steam, think about things until I was ready to come back out and act rationally.

My parents did employ spanking, though. I remember my little sister getting whacked. I don't think it accomplished shit. She was crazy when she was little; she just needed to outgrow that shit. Smacking her ass didn't accomplish that. Of course, my parents did far worse things regarding my sister's 'education' than they ever did to her physically.

Spanking worked on me, happened maybe twice.

My brother got spanked once. He started laughing so my parents had to come up with something new.

If your kid laughs when you hit them, you're not really hitting them.

Well, when I was a toddler, I wandered out in the garage. To teach me that the garage was dangrous, my father fired up the ol' soldering iron and stuck it to the bridge of my nose. To this day, I have no actual bones in my nose, but instead, it's all cartilage. Oftentimes, it's a little off-kilter, and when someone asks me if I've had my nose broken before, I just say 'yeah'.

I'm pretty sure I won't be doing that to my son.

...Um.

...

Um.

If I got in trouble. It was usually spanking or some other form of punishment.
Like one of my favorite toys would be taken away as a kid, or grounded from video games for a week or t.v.
Something along those lines.

But yeah if the kid is out of control I say give him a good swat or two. A little physical pain for the kid is good for him.

The only thing spanking taught me is that one shouldn't get caught (my grandfather did it when i too stuff from his tool cabinet, never stopped me from doing it again)... not a bad lesson though.

Best thing i heard was from a girl in high school, her parents didn't even punish her much, they just made her feel bad about doing whatever it was.

Of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't use spanking at all, sometimes a little physical punishment can drive the point home, just save it for the more serious stuff, certainly not F's in school or any crap like that, i know plenty of people that either learned to hide it or once the threat of beatings was gone stopped caring.


Oh, and don't go overboard with arguments about who's right like you do here, especially when you're not so much right as annoyed by the kids behaviour, or you risk him/her loosing respect for you.

Shegokigo said:

I grew up in a stronghanded Catholic home, so yeah, we were all spanked.

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SPANKING MAKES YOU GAY, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST.

i got spanked a few dozen times while growing up. However, looking back i see how it was always deserved and there were warnings before it.

It must have been difficult for them to keep their composure as much as they did.

My father would always say : STOP and do as you're told after arguments or me acting retarded... Right there, if i didn't stop, i was going to get one across the face. Yeah, i learned. And to this day, my father is easily the person i love the most and have utmost respect for.

I didn't get spanked often as a child. It was reserved for extremely bad behavior, usually when I did not show remorse or was displaying some other type of bad behavior.

I remember the last time I got spanked, too. I was four or five, and at my grandparents' house. My grandmother gave me some new markers, and then a few hours later my brother got some too. I said "those are just like mine!" in an excited voice, but my parents misheard me. They thought I said "and where the hell are mine?" or some nonsense. Whatever it was, they demanded I apologize right away. I refused, because I knew I didn't do anything wrong. My dad kept threatening me, then he took me to the back and said he would spank me until I went out and apologized. At this point I was totally confused, but I stuck to my guns and said I wouldn't apologize for something I didn't do. He began hitting me on the behind, harder and harder until I agreed to apologize. I never did, and he finally gave up. I was left alone in the room, crying, refusing to talk to him. A few minutes later he returned, and he had talked to my brother. My brother confirmed my side of the story, and my dad apologized. Still, I was *pissed*.

So the moral of the story is that you must absolutely make sure that you have all the facts straight before punishing your child. Spanking, or any form of punishment for that matter, will fail if the kid doesn't understand why it's happening.

I don't think I'll spank my kids. I would rather find alternative forms of punishment.

My mom spanked me/whapped me in the back of the head. Sometimes I deserved it, more often I didn't, and I still hold a bit of a grudge against her for that.

My dad spanked/hit me a grand total of three times when I was a kid, and once when I was in middle school. Every time I deserved it; and when it was in middle school--when I was flunking out of my classes because I was simply lazy, and I'd lied that I was doing perfectly well for the past eight months--he grabbed me by the throat, slammed me into the roof of the truck, and explained very slowly that I wouldn't need to worry about my future if I didn't do better in school.

The difference between my parents was that, whenever my dad thought I deserved physical punishment, I KNEW I did.

RealBigNuke said:

Physical punishment can work as an extreme deterrent and last resort, but I think it's much more effective to show a kid how they messed up practically as their punishment. IE, taking away their allowance if they get an F because, boy, you better learn to be poor if yer not gonna try in school, and so forth.

If you just hit your kid when they do something wrong(or just when they piss you off) it doesn't teach them anything but to endeavor to lie to you when they do the wrong thing so they don't get hit. It also shows them that violence is always a valid solution if you're too damn stupid to think of anything else. Resentment and deceit is all I learned from frequent physical punishment, anyway.

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Couldn't have said it any better than that.

@Li3n said:

Best thing i heard was from a girl in high school, her parents didn't even punish her much, they just made her feel bad about doing whatever it was.

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It was mainly like this for me too.

They are still doing it, actually.

Education by spanking? What, do you tap out trigonometric theory on their backside via Morse code?

I wasn't spanked, nor was my sis - as far as I can remember anyway, maybe we were when we were under four years old. My mom was very strict but not overly so, and we were generally submissive kids. We got a stern talking to when we did something wrong and that usually just made us feel so guilty we didn't do it again.

I'll quote my mum, "Not the head! Not the head!".

Not to say my dad beat me all the time but I remember him picking up my brother and throwing him into a book case when we were a bit slow cleaning our room. I was kicked down stairs a couple of times.

I have once slapped my daughter's hand, the guilt I felt has prevented me from repeating this. I find calm talking, time outs and removal of priveliges works for me.

I think JCM meant learning and behavioral modification rather than formal education. I doubt spanking screws anybody up at all but whether it works to actually modify behavior as desired, I would say that most of the time it doesn't. The times where it does work, it would need to be applied right away and it would need to produce the desired behavior as a direct result of the spanking (and not just as an abstract punishment).

What RealBigNuke said.

I used to get spanked quite often as a kid, because I too was a little shit. In time, I just started to lie about stuff to ensure I didn't get a spanking. When they found out the lie I made, I'd get a harder spanking, so after that I made sure my lies were fabricated better. So while it can work as a deterrent, it can also have some very unwanted side effects.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/01/is_spanking_children_ok_calvin.html

a Calvin College psychology professor says her research shows corporal punishment forms more well-adjusted people later in life.

Marjorie Gunnoe says the study finds children who remember being spanked on the backside with an open hand do better in school, perform more volunteer work and are more optimistic than others who were not physically disciplined.

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I got spanked because I deserve it. My parents set the rules and abide by it. They don't ever violate the rule (we all follow it) which helps a lot for us. We were "educated" in a sense that if you do something really bad, you could get spanked. (of course no one spanked my parents but you get the idea) Spanking is usually left as a last resort, there are many other type of punishment before we reach spanking. The only exception is lying. I lied once to my parents about grades and well.... I don't ever lie to my parents again. Omission, yes, but not a straight out lie (even at 37 I still get scare mentally. physically my parents doesn't have prowess to spank me, but it is the ideal behind it I guess)

Purely anecdotal:

There are six kids in my family, grouped in threes (my parents took a break). The older were spanked and generally treated more harshly. Status: Older sister completed an AS degree, has successful home business, I have Ph.D., younger sister has a decent NCO rank in the Navy. Younger siblings? Unemployed (until recently), underemployed (has a BS with a 4.0 GPA, but refuses to take entry level work), unemployed. I suspect it has to do with the permissiveness overall, but spanking was definitely a big part of it.

Yes, it was never so bad that it didn't stop hurting after a few minutes and we knew we had REALLY been bad if we got spanked and it was always accompanied with time outs/loss of privileges. It was a last resort and never done in anger by my parents. I got no problem with that.

I also have no problem with spanking (since I didn't say it in my previous post). Used properly I'm sure it's an effective punishment. If I ever have kids I'm not sure whether I will or not, but I'm not outright against it.

My mom was badly beaten as a child for her wrongdoings, so she never hit us and never let my dad do so either. For Fade's example, I can offer my mom's family as a counter-example: my mom's parents took a break after their third child before having their final two, and the youngest two girls in the family were never hit. None of the older three finished college, two are currently unemployed, and my uncle (the oldest in the family) makes his living as a truck driver. My younger two aunts, however, both finished college and made over 100k a year in their careers. So I think there's a lot more to it than whether or not they were spanked.

Spanks didn't really phase me, despite the discomfort.

At some point my dad told me that spanks didn't cut it anymore and will now use his belt to whip me. He did it once. I never forgot the pain. He also learned how to make the belt crack in his hands. That sound terrorized me and put me in my place and made me behave.

When I have kids, despite not wanting to harm them, I think I could use such a tactic but I'd also want to employ a reward system for good behaviour and doing great in school.

HowDroll said:

My mom was badly beaten as a child for her wrongdoings, so she never hit us and never let my dad do so either. For Fade's example, I can offer my mom's family as a counter-example: my mom's parents took a break after their third child before having their final two, and the youngest two girls in the family were never hit. None of the older three finished college, two are currently unemployed, and my uncle (the oldest in the family) makes his living as a truck driver. My younger two aunts, however, both finished college and made over 100k a year in their careers. So I think there's a lot more to it than whether or not they were spanked.

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I agree, and I said so in my own post. I'm just making the point that there's a correlation there, and I even pointed out that it was probably more to do with permissiveness in general.

I don't like spanking, but I do dislike when people call it "hitting". Yeah, you could drop some oxford english dictionary definitions here to show me they're synonyms, but there's a load of connotation carried by the word "hit".

For the record, my parents were both physically abused, and had generally terrible childhoods. I hated get spanked, but I never once thought I was being hit. Even with school teachers drilling physical abuse counseling into our heads constantly.

I was spanked often as a kid. My mom was pretty creative she used shoes, belts, wooden spoons, sticks, and the worst, the very very worst, was the metal end of the flyswatter. I once got a flyswatter spanking that left so many welts on my ass I literally couldn't sit down. I don't really have a problem with spanking, I just don't think it is very useful. It wasn't for me obviously because knowing I would get spanked did nothing to deter me. If I have kids I don't think I will spank them because it isn't really a natural consequence. I think consequences for kids should be in relation to the wrong doing. Spanking is painful but it doesn't really relate to the behavior.

I just laughed at my mom when she was spanking me. She would come out of it with a black and blue hand and it didn't even phase me. She really hated when I did that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with spanking. It's the misuse of it that can cause problems.

For some it might work, others, no.

As a kid, I got spanked, a lot. Usually for acting up in school or getting detention. Mainly with just a hand to the ass, and once in a while with a belt to the ass when I really misbehaved.

Did it work? Nope. Kids will be kids. They do stuff like that. Spanking me did nothing but make me really dislike the idea of spanking. If I ever have kids, which I'd like to one day..., I'd never lay a hand on them to dish out discipline. These days kids are so ingrained with technology and entertainment, it'd be more punishment to take away their video games or cell phones (depending on age). I am NOT a supporter of causing physical pain in order to instill obedience in children. People have a right to raise their kids how they want but I find it a draconian barbaric way to get a child to do what you want them to.

There were levels of punishment--mostly I was spoken sternly to or made to do more chores--especially if I had a bad attitude. They'd say something like, "You need to do something constructive for a while. Go sweep the walk." Funny thing is, accomplishing something usually did put me in a better mood, even if I wouldn't admit it. I was spanked only once or twice, mostly just to stop me from talking back--to shock me into listening. My parents didn't think it was evil, just a last resort. They didn't want me to think that violence should be an immediate solution, but they saw that sometimes it was necessary to get our attention.

I'm not anti-spanking, I just think there's a right way and a wrong way. I have a little cousin whose father (not living with them anymore) was a very angry man and encouraged him to be a "boy" and wrestle and be tough and everything. The problem is that this kid's "boyishness" goes beyond the normal, rough-and-tumble stuff. He hurts people all the time, and that's usually his goal. My cousin returns this with more hitting. She takes off his pants and slaps him hard on the leg and stuff like that, and it just makes him angrier. Sometimes he hits back. I think that, in that situation, it's just teaching him that it's ok to hit. I'm not trying to talk crap about HER, I don't know what I would be doing if I was stuck with that kid. He's kind of a nightmare. I think she's going for the "See how that feels? That's what you're making others feel like" route.

Honestly the most painful discipline I ever received were REALLY long lectures about how my actions would affect myself and others. I'm grateful they taught me how far-reaching decisions can be, but it also made me a teensy bit obsessive. My dad must have broken the record several times over for using the " in other words" the most time in a single lecture. Jesus. I was ready to do anything they told me if it meant stopping their talking.

Shakey said:

I just laughed at my mom when she was spanking me. She would come out of it with a black and blue hand and it didn't even phase me. She really hated when I did that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with spanking. It's the misuse of it that can cause problems.

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My grandma broke 2 wooden spoons in 3 days on my arse... i win. (ok, the first was old, but still sturdy, and the 2nd one was new but crap, still, that's something)

Honestly the most painful discipline I ever received were REALLY long lectures about how my actions would affect myself and others.

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Man, those things where a fucking pain... boring as hell.

I hesitated on wanting to write in this thread. Wasnt sure what to say really. I have known people who needed to be spanked to set them right. Then I have also known people when no matter how bad they were beat up by family, never turned out okay. The whole subject is a bit gloomy because sometimes you do have to discipline a child. A whack on the hand or the rear can be good because most children are more afraid of the implications then the act. They know they did something wrong and getting into big trouble was the worst feeling in the world.

I grew up in Brooklyn during the 80's. You couldnt call anyone if your parents beat you. My parents were young when they had me. I was the first born out all the children and cousins. I know at this point in my life, my mom had a hard time with life. She took it out on me and my sisters for a long time. The only two things she did right in treating me the way was I grew tougher and that I would never treat any child like I was treated.

I think the best answer is there is no answer. It really comes down to understanding and love. I do like it when you see good kids trying to understand where parents or adults are coming from. But there will be people out there who simply dont know any better or get some sick pleasure of hurting other people, even their own kids. I have seen kids grow up well because their parents loved them, gave them time and understanding. Thats some of the best stuff anyone and hope for.

And that is all I have to say on that subject.

As far as reward systems go, my aunts came up with a good one:

My cousins get little tags with their names on them. When the system started, they got them for any good stuff, and lost them for any bad stuff. As time went on, they'd lose more for the bad stuff (fighting, lying, grades), and have to do good more consistently (or do even better, as in chores without asking, grades, being polite) increasingly to get the name tags.

These tags they'd used to "cash in" for stuff, such as getting dessert on a no-dessert night, staying up a half-hour later, getting to pick where the family ate out, and if they got a LOT (like 50) they could get a new toy.
It not only encouraged good behavior, but also taught them about money before even getting any real money. One of them was saving his, while the other spent them whenever she could get anything like staying up later. So then he saved up 50 to get a new toy, while she only had another night of staying up a little later. Then she started learning to save them up for better stuff. (She also had to learn to stop lying, because she'd lose 10 stickers for that, and they DID go negative.)

A few spankings, usually just the threat of the wooden spoon was enough to end rotten behavior. Which is funny because being slapped with a wooden spoon doesn't actually hurt, it's knowing that an instrument would be involved somehow made a difference.

I spank my no goodnicks. But I don't go nuts either. In all honesty, the time-out after the spank is what they hate the most. I like to use spanking to reinforce the severity of the punishment if need be. I don't go nuts and use a belt like my ol' man did on me though. I keenly remember how much that hurt, and think it's a little over the top....

...of course I did always do shit like take apart the VCR, blow up the water main, and make baking soda grenades. My kids are angels compared to the little shit I was as a kid.

My dad's an alright guy though. He wasn't abusive or anything, and it was really rare when he did actually spank me, but just thinking about those whoopings makes my ass feel sore.

This may just be speculation, but I believe spanking is a necessary form of discipline. Spanking, and other physical punishments.

I am one of four children. I was the only one spanked or hit as a child when I did something bad. The next two are also boys. Neither were spanked or punished physically. Neither have any respect or any semblance of responsibility. We are all separated by 3 years. Youngest is 13.

Zumbo, allow me to offer a rebuttal. I think it is quite simplistic to say that children turn no good if they are not spanked. Are you certain that in the case of your siblings it is not the lack of punishment, instead of specifically the lack of spanking, that had them grow up sour? Cause and effect, and generally teaching children that what they do and say have consequences is something that parents need to teach; how they go about it, is a different matter entirely. Case in point, yours truly. I was never spanked and I believe myself a well-behaved individual. But my parents did teach me to be respectful and kind.

LordRavage said:

I think the best answer is there is no answer.

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I sure as hell hope there is, otherwise me and my colleagues are wasting our damn time.

MindDetective;326490][QUOTE=LordRavage said:

I think the best answer is there is no answer.

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I sure as hell hope there is, otherwise me and my colleagues are wasting our damn time.[/QUOTE]

Well, we didn't want to say anything...

MindDetective;326490][QUOTE=LordRavage said:

I think the best answer is there is no answer.

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I sure as hell hope there is, otherwise me and my colleagues are wasting our damn time.[/QUOTE]

You have a point. I think I meant there was no one answer. Some problems can have multiple solutions. I was coming from a stance of, you cannot find the one answer for such acts of discipline.

MindDetective, Keep fighting the good fight. I believe the world needs more of that.

RealBigNuke said:

If you just hit your kid when they do something wrong(or just when they piss you off) it doesn't teach them anything but to endeavor to lie to you when they do the wrong thing so they don't get hit. It also shows them that violence is always a valid solution if you're too damn stupid to think of anything else. Resentment and deceit is all I learned from frequent physical punishment, anyway.

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Recent psychological studies actually showed this is not true. It's they same hype that surrounds the "violent video games teach kids that it's okay to be violent."

There are three ways to educate: Positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and punishment.

Positive reinforcement is the reward system. Someone does good you give them a gold star.
Negative reinforcement is often times confused with punishment. However a good way to think of negative reinforcement is by a vulture around the neck that can only be removed after preforming a task. Christianity is a good example of negative reinforcement. I.E. You're born in sin, and if you want to be forgiven you must get baptized.
Punishment, however, is designed to dissuade behavior. It was believed that any kind of physical punishment was completely bad, but the reality is that emotional trauma is much worse to children as they are growing up.

Like all things it takes balance. It's okay to spank as long as it's only enough to show them that what they did was wrong. In other words, don't beat your kids. However, if you want to teach them not to lie, you can start by not lying to them.

Lying Bastard said:

A few spankings, usually just the threat of the wooden spoon was enough to end rotten behavior. Which is funny because being slapped with a wooden spoon doesn't actually hurt, it's knowing that an instrument would be involved somehow made a difference.

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Agreed. That is what my folks did as well. Wooden spoon. It stung like a mofo for a few seconds then it just hurt that I had done something bad enough to push my folks so far they would do that.

One thing I find strange with some parents is how they only think of their kids as kids. I've noticed people on another board who seem to view their kids only as they are--and then we have people here like Chaz, who's already got in mind how he's going to handle things as his get older.

One thing with those who don't think ahead is, some of them raise the kids to ONLY be kids, rather than to be growing into adults, so they do whatever they can to make sure they're 100% obedient, never questioning, never taking risks, etc. They make easy kids and crappy adults who don't know how to take care of themselves.

The other thing that can go on is that even with that mindset, they still raise the kids to become decent adults, but didn't actually take into account what it'd be like with them as adults, as if they'd vanish when they moved out. My sister and I come back for visits multiple times a year, or my mom and everyone converge on my aunt's house, but either way, sometimes we repeat stuff that happened when we were kids involving punishments, both the ones we deserved and the ones we didn't. No one's traumatized--I've known abused kids, we were certainly not abused--but it is kinda funny teasing my mom about this stuff, and it just never occurred to her that we'd remember anything of our childhoods when we grew up. I still get on her about when I was 4 and was looking at these lizard toys in Toys-R-Us. She walked away with my brother and sister. Then she came barreling back a minute later "how dare you walk away from me?!!" and I can't remember if I was punished, but I got yelled at for a bit. Totally her fault .

escushion said:

it just never occurred to her that we'd remember anything of our childhoods when we grew up.

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I think there was something in the water back in their days that made them all forget how it was to be a kid or something. Either that or humanity went extinct long ago and we're the first generation after the aliens came and cloned us back into existence.

Shegokigo said:

I grew up in a stronghanded Catholic home, so yeah, we were all spanked.

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^ This

The best way?

No.

I don't believe that there's a universally best way to raise children, but if pressed I would answer the best way to educate them is with love.

For some children, physical punishments are the most loving way to help them want to change their behavior.

I was spanked infrequently as a child (spatula! woo!).

My wife and I aren't spanking our children as a form of discipline, as taking away privileges, having time-outs on the stairs, and so forth are working for us. Our oldest is 9 years old, so he's already near the age where spanking wouldn't be useful anyway. In general we subscribe to the consequence should relate to the action, so the hardest part for us is making sure we understand the issue, and coming up with a suitable punishment.

Here's an interesting resource for this sort of discussion:

http://moms4mom.com/search?q=punishment

I was hit fairly frequently as a child, enough for me to vow never to use any form of corporal punishment on my own children. Open hand spankings, metal end of a flyswatter, wire coat hanger, etc. I actually have a scar on my ass, fifteen years later, from a hanger.

The problem, now, is that I don't know any other form of child-rearing. To me, the only way of discouraging certain behaviors is to inflict pain. I have two younger sisters, I hit them pretty often while growing up. I have a nephew now I sometimes babysit, and when he acts up my first instinct is to want to smack him. (He's 3 years old)

Therefore, I don't want to have any children. My own personal view is that parental corporal punishment is a form of attack, and I don't want to ever be in a situation where I might physically attack my kids.

You could read this thread for some suggestions .

But I know what you mean. Fortunately for you it sounds like only a lack of knowledge of what else to do, but I have known a couple adults who were abused as kids who emotionally can't control that side of them, even though they know alternatives, ways they should handle situations.

bhamv3 said:

I have a nephew now I sometimes babysit, and when he acts up my first instinct is to want to smack him. (He's 3 years old)

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Finding a way to get over it is a good idea even if you don't have kids...

@Li3n;326838][QUOTE=bhamv3 said:

I have a nephew now I sometimes babysit, and when he acts up my first instinct is to want to smack him. (He's 3 years old)

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Finding a way to get over it is a good idea even if you don't have kids...[/QUOTE]

If your first instinct is to smack a kid when he/she acts up, I think it's a good thing you're not a parent.

I'll go through at least 3 or 4 modes of discipline before resorting to spanking. I don't know if it's just my kids, but to tell you the truth, the best thing that works for me is to ask them to stop. For example: my 2 year old daughter is twirling around her dolls by the hair. "Liv, can you put the dolls down and play with them on the floor?" 9/10 she'll do just that, no fuss no muss.

My nephew is a little harder to control; asking him nicely rarely works the first time around, but he has had to deal with a lot more than your typical 5 year old. He's really well behaved for the most part and I rarely have to resort to spanking.

I really, really hate spanking to be honest. And I feel bad doing it, but sometimes it's your last resort option. It's not like it works forever either. After all, you can't go around spanking a teenager if they fuck up... but you can embarrass the shit out of them.

Chazwozel said:

I really, really hate spanking to be honest. And I feel bad doing it, but sometimes it's your last resort option. It's not like it works forever either. After all, you can't go around spanking a teenager if they fuck up... but you can embarrass the shit out of them.

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Yeah, see, this is what I mean by planning ahead. I totally get behind your "daughter screws up, you drive her to school and hang out in your bathrobe around her friends, introducing yourself as her dad" idea.

I was spanked when I did something really bad, like lying to them. I think my parents stopped using spanking once I got in middle school (5th - 6th grade) because the punishments they could dole out then were worse. Taking my stereo out of my room or taking my phone privileges away was like cutting out my heart. My family was big on intimidation. My mom would get right in my face while yelling at me until I was shrinking away from her. I have yelled at my son, unfortunately, but nothing like what my mom would do to me.

I do spank my son, but use it as the last resort. I give him a chance to correct himself by telling him I don't like when he (insert behavior here). If that doesn't work, he gets a time out. Our pediatrician suggested 1 minute for every year of age, so I stick with that. If he continues, then he will get another time out and a spanking. If it's something where he acts out, then straightens up and acts out again a few hours later, I start the process over from step one. Young children don't remember things the same way that we do which is why you find yourself repeating things a lot before it starts to stick. It's really important to be consistent no matter how you decide to discipline your child. If you don't like a certain behavior, don't laugh it off the first 10 times your child does it then suddenly punish him for doing it the 11th time. You've already taught him that it's ok. It's also a good thing to remember that your children are always watching and listening to you. Be an example of what you want them to do and they will generally follow. My son is a very polite and well-spoken 4-year-old. I have always made sure I say please, thank you, excuse me, etc. so that he would pick it up, too.

^That's pretty much exactly what I've been taught, Wildsoul. I've heard a lot of parents tell a confused kid who's just been punished, "He knows what he did!" when really they don't. Sure, they definitely play dumb sometimes to get out of trouble and get sympathy from someone who's not with them 24/7. But with a really young kid you need to be specific about what you expect from them and, like you said, consistent in your reactions. I'm not a parent, but all that seems pretty smart to me.

Catholic kid here. I was spanked 'till 2nd grade.
But my mom got a big talent of hurting with words. When I was 12, I was with her and my brother in a store, checking the games. I asked her if she could get us a Genesis, and she went on a verbal tirade for about 20 minutes basically saying "Do you want me to become a whore to get you a play thingy?" in the middle of the store. Since that moment, I stopped asking her for anything.

bhamv3 said:

I was hit fairly frequently as a child, enough for me to vow never to use any form of corporal punishment on my own children. Open hand spankings, metal end of a flyswatter, wire coat hanger, etc. I actually have a scar on my ass, fifteen years later, from a hanger.

The problem, now, is that I don't know any other form of child-rearing. To me, the only way of discouraging certain behaviors is to inflict pain. I have two younger sisters, I hit them pretty often while growing up. I have a nephew now I sometimes babysit, and when he acts up my first instinct is to want to smack him. (He's 3 years old)

Therefore, I don't want to have any children. My own personal view is that parental corporal punishment is a form of attack, and I don't want to ever be in a situation where I might physically attack my kids.

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There are soooo many different things you can do, but it is a learning process. You can check out books and stuff (from libraries) on tips.

KenjiFinster said:

Catholic kid here. I was spanked 'till 2nd grade.
But my mom got a big talent of hurting with words. When I was 12, I was with her and my brother in a store, checking the games. I asked her if she could get us a Genesis, and she went on a verbal tirade for about 20 minutes basically saying "Do you want me to become a whore to get you a play thingy?" in the middle of the store. Since that moment, I stopped asking her for anything.

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That's pretty rough. :\

North_Ranger said:

Zumbo, allow me to offer a rebuttal. I think it is quite simplistic to say that children turn no good if they are not spanked. Are you certain that in the case of your siblings it is not the lack of punishment, instead of specifically the lack of spanking, that had them grow up sour? Cause and effect, and generally teaching children that what they do and say have consequences is something that parents need to teach; how they go about it, is a different matter entirely. Case in point, yours truly. I was never spanked and I believe myself a well-behaved individual. But my parents did teach me to be respectful and kind.

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I don't mean it honestly cannot believe that only spanking would have changed the end results. There is essentially no discipline whatsoever, and not much in the way of positive influences. Initially, physical punishment seems to be an effective tool, however, other means are necessary past a certain age. In response to your second point, how were you brought up? Was there any positive influence from your family? From your friends? From the media? How much effort did your parents spend teaching you to be a civilized human being?

My dad was hit with a large board with holes drilled into it at school, at home his dad would beat him with fists or belt or whatever he could find. Kind of a douche bag.
When I was a kid my dad started with his hand but then went up to the belt or spoon, my sister was of course exempt due to being female. She's a no good layabout and I like to think I'm doing well so there's a plus side if it's connected.

Oh yeah, and the tree branch. That blew.