- Status
My mom was badly beaten as a child for her wrongdoings, so she never hit us and never let my dad do so either. For Fade's example, I can offer my mom's family as a counter-example: my mom's parents took a break after their third child before having their final two, and the youngest two girls in the family were never hit. None of the older three finished college, two are currently unemployed, and my uncle (the oldest in the family) makes his living as a truck driver. My younger two aunts, however, both finished college and made over 100k a year in their careers. So I think there's a lot more to it than whether or not they were spanked.
Spanks didn't really phase me, despite the discomfort.
At some point my dad told me that spanks didn't cut it anymore and will now use his belt to whip me. He did it once. I never forgot the pain. He also learned how to make the belt crack in his hands. That sound terrorized me and put me in my place and made me behave.
When I have kids, despite not wanting to harm them, I think I could use such a tactic but I'd also want to employ a reward system for good behaviour and doing great in school.
At some point my dad told me that spanks didn't cut it anymore and will now use his belt to whip me. He did it once. I never forgot the pain. He also learned how to make the belt crack in his hands. That sound terrorized me and put me in my place and made me behave.
When I have kids, despite not wanting to harm them, I think I could use such a tactic but I'd also want to employ a reward system for good behaviour and doing great in school.
fade
Staff member
I agree, and I said so in my own post. I'm just making the point that there's a correlation there, and I even pointed out that it was probably more to do with permissiveness in general.
I don't like spanking, but I do dislike when people call it "hitting". Yeah, you could drop some oxford english dictionary definitions here to show me they're synonyms, but there's a load of connotation carried by the word "hit".
For the record, my parents were both physically abused, and had generally terrible childhoods. I hated get spanked, but I never once thought I was being hit. Even with school teachers drilling physical abuse counseling into our heads constantly.
M
makare
I was spanked often as a kid. My mom was pretty creative she used shoes, belts, wooden spoons, sticks, and the worst, the very very worst, was the metal end of the flyswatter. I once got a flyswatter spanking that left so many welts on my ass I literally couldn't sit down. I don't really have a problem with spanking, I just don't think it is very useful. It wasn't for me obviously because knowing I would get spanked did nothing to deter me. If I have kids I don't think I will spank them because it isn't really a natural consequence. I think consequences for kids should be in relation to the wrong doing. Spanking is painful but it doesn't really relate to the behavior.
R
Rubicon
For some it might work, others, no.
As a kid, I got spanked, a lot. Usually for acting up in school or getting detention. Mainly with just a hand to the ass, and once in a while with a belt to the ass when I really misbehaved.
Did it work? Nope. Kids will be kids. They do stuff like that. Spanking me did nothing but make me really dislike the idea of spanking. If I ever have kids, which I'd like to one day..., I'd never lay a hand on them to dish out discipline. These days kids are so ingrained with technology and entertainment, it'd be more punishment to take away their video games or cell phones (depending on age). I am NOT a supporter of causing physical pain in order to instill obedience in children. People have a right to raise their kids how they want but I find it a draconian barbaric way to get a child to do what you want them to.
As a kid, I got spanked, a lot. Usually for acting up in school or getting detention. Mainly with just a hand to the ass, and once in a while with a belt to the ass when I really misbehaved.
Did it work? Nope. Kids will be kids. They do stuff like that. Spanking me did nothing but make me really dislike the idea of spanking. If I ever have kids, which I'd like to one day..., I'd never lay a hand on them to dish out discipline. These days kids are so ingrained with technology and entertainment, it'd be more punishment to take away their video games or cell phones (depending on age). I am NOT a supporter of causing physical pain in order to instill obedience in children. People have a right to raise their kids how they want but I find it a draconian barbaric way to get a child to do what you want them to.
Cajungal
Staff member
There were levels of punishment--mostly I was spoken sternly to or made to do more chores--especially if I had a bad attitude. They'd say something like, "You need to do something constructive for a while. Go sweep the walk." Funny thing is, accomplishing something usually did put me in a better mood, even if I wouldn't admit it. I was spanked only once or twice, mostly just to stop me from talking back--to shock me into listening. My parents didn't think it was evil, just a last resort. They didn't want me to think that violence should be an immediate solution, but they saw that sometimes it was necessary to get our attention.
I'm not anti-spanking, I just think there's a right way and a wrong way. I have a little cousin whose father (not living with them anymore) was a very angry man and encouraged him to be a "boy" and wrestle and be tough and everything. The problem is that this kid's "boyishness" goes beyond the normal, rough-and-tumble stuff. He hurts people all the time, and that's usually his goal. My cousin returns this with more hitting. She takes off his pants and slaps him hard on the leg and stuff like that, and it just makes him angrier. Sometimes he hits back. I think that, in that situation, it's just teaching him that it's ok to hit. I'm not trying to talk crap about HER, I don't know what I would be doing if I was stuck with that kid. He's kind of a nightmare. I think she's going for the "See how that feels? That's what you're making others feel like" route.
I'm not anti-spanking, I just think there's a right way and a wrong way. I have a little cousin whose father (not living with them anymore) was a very angry man and encouraged him to be a "boy" and wrestle and be tough and everything. The problem is that this kid's "boyishness" goes beyond the normal, rough-and-tumble stuff. He hurts people all the time, and that's usually his goal. My cousin returns this with more hitting. She takes off his pants and slaps him hard on the leg and stuff like that, and it just makes him angrier. Sometimes he hits back. I think that, in that situation, it's just teaching him that it's ok to hit. I'm not trying to talk crap about HER, I don't know what I would be doing if I was stuck with that kid. He's kind of a nightmare. I think she's going for the "See how that feels? That's what you're making others feel like" route.
Cajungal
Staff member
Honestly the most painful discipline I ever received were REALLY long lectures about how my actions would affect myself and others. I'm grateful they taught me how far-reaching decisions can be, but it also made me a teensy bit obsessive. My dad must have broken the record several times over for using the " in other words" the most time in a single lecture. Jesus. I was ready to do anything they told me if it meant stopping their talking.
My grandma broke 2 wooden spoons in 3 days on my arse... i win. (ok, the first was old, but still sturdy, and the 2nd one was new but crap, still, that's something)
Man, those things where a fucking pain... boring as hell.
L
LordRavage
I hesitated on wanting to write in this thread. Wasnt sure what to say really. I have known people who needed to be spanked to set them right. Then I have also known people when no matter how bad they were beat up by family, never turned out okay. The whole subject is a bit gloomy because sometimes you do have to discipline a child. A whack on the hand or the rear can be good because most children are more afraid of the implications then the act. They know they did something wrong and getting into big trouble was the worst feeling in the world.
I grew up in Brooklyn during the 80's. You couldnt call anyone if your parents beat you. My parents were young when they had me. I was the first born out all the children and cousins. I know at this point in my life, my mom had a hard time with life. She took it out on me and my sisters for a long time. The only two things she did right in treating me the way was I grew tougher and that I would never treat any child like I was treated.
I think the best answer is there is no answer. It really comes down to understanding and love. I do like it when you see good kids trying to understand where parents or adults are coming from. But there will be people out there who simply dont know any better or get some sick pleasure of hurting other people, even their own kids. I have seen kids grow up well because their parents loved them, gave them time and understanding. Thats some of the best stuff anyone and hope for.
And that is all I have to say on that subject.
I grew up in Brooklyn during the 80's. You couldnt call anyone if your parents beat you. My parents were young when they had me. I was the first born out all the children and cousins. I know at this point in my life, my mom had a hard time with life. She took it out on me and my sisters for a long time. The only two things she did right in treating me the way was I grew tougher and that I would never treat any child like I was treated.
I think the best answer is there is no answer. It really comes down to understanding and love. I do like it when you see good kids trying to understand where parents or adults are coming from. But there will be people out there who simply dont know any better or get some sick pleasure of hurting other people, even their own kids. I have seen kids grow up well because their parents loved them, gave them time and understanding. Thats some of the best stuff anyone and hope for.
And that is all I have to say on that subject.
As far as reward systems go, my aunts came up with a good one:
My cousins get little tags with their names on them. When the system started, they got them for any good stuff, and lost them for any bad stuff. As time went on, they'd lose more for the bad stuff (fighting, lying, grades), and have to do good more consistently (or do even better, as in chores without asking, grades, being polite) increasingly to get the name tags.
These tags they'd used to "cash in" for stuff, such as getting dessert on a no-dessert night, staying up a half-hour later, getting to pick where the family ate out, and if they got a LOT (like 50) they could get a new toy.
It not only encouraged good behavior, but also taught them about money before even getting any real money. One of them was saving his, while the other spent them whenever she could get anything like staying up later. So then he saved up 50 to get a new toy, while she only had another night of staying up a little later. Then she started learning to save them up for better stuff. (She also had to learn to stop lying, because she'd lose 10 stickers for that, and they DID go negative.)
My cousins get little tags with their names on them. When the system started, they got them for any good stuff, and lost them for any bad stuff. As time went on, they'd lose more for the bad stuff (fighting, lying, grades), and have to do good more consistently (or do even better, as in chores without asking, grades, being polite) increasingly to get the name tags.
These tags they'd used to "cash in" for stuff, such as getting dessert on a no-dessert night, staying up a half-hour later, getting to pick where the family ate out, and if they got a LOT (like 50) they could get a new toy.
It not only encouraged good behavior, but also taught them about money before even getting any real money. One of them was saving his, while the other spent them whenever she could get anything like staying up later. So then he saved up 50 to get a new toy, while she only had another night of staying up a little later. Then she started learning to save them up for better stuff. (She also had to learn to stop lying, because she'd lose 10 stickers for that, and they DID go negative.)
C
Chazwozel
I spank my no goodnicks. But I don't go nuts either. In all honesty, the time-out after the spank is what they hate the most. I like to use spanking to reinforce the severity of the punishment if need be. I don't go nuts and use a belt like my ol' man did on me though. I keenly remember how much that hurt, and think it's a little over the top....
...of course I did always do shit like take apart the VCR, blow up the water main, and make baking soda grenades. My kids are angels compared to the little shit I was as a kid.
My dad's an alright guy though. He wasn't abusive or anything, and it was really rare when he did actually spank me, but just thinking about those whoopings makes my ass feel sore.
...of course I did always do shit like take apart the VCR, blow up the water main, and make baking soda grenades. My kids are angels compared to the little shit I was as a kid.
My dad's an alright guy though. He wasn't abusive or anything, and it was really rare when he did actually spank me, but just thinking about those whoopings makes my ass feel sore.
Z
Zumbo Prime
This may just be speculation, but I believe spanking is a necessary form of discipline. Spanking, and other physical punishments.
I am one of four children. I was the only one spanked or hit as a child when I did something bad. The next two are also boys. Neither were spanked or punished physically. Neither have any respect or any semblance of responsibility. We are all separated by 3 years. Youngest is 13.
I am one of four children. I was the only one spanked or hit as a child when I did something bad. The next two are also boys. Neither were spanked or punished physically. Neither have any respect or any semblance of responsibility. We are all separated by 3 years. Youngest is 13.
North_Ranger
Staff member
Zumbo, allow me to offer a rebuttal. I think it is quite simplistic to say that children turn no good if they are not spanked. Are you certain that in the case of your siblings it is not the lack of punishment, instead of specifically the lack of spanking, that had them grow up sour? Cause and effect, and generally teaching children that what they do and say have consequences is something that parents need to teach; how they go about it, is a different matter entirely. Case in point, yours truly. I was never spanked and I believe myself a well-behaved individual. But my parents did teach me to be respectful and kind.
I sure as hell hope there is, otherwise me and my colleagues are wasting our damn time.
I sure as hell hope there is, otherwise me and my colleagues are wasting our damn time.[/QUOTE]
Well, we didn't want to say anything...
L
LordRavage
I sure as hell hope there is, otherwise me and my colleagues are wasting our damn time.[/QUOTE]
You have a point. I think I meant there was no one answer. Some problems can have multiple solutions. I was coming from a stance of, you cannot find the one answer for such acts of discipline.
MindDetective, Keep fighting the good fight. I believe the world needs more of that.
T
The Key of J
Recent psychological studies actually showed this is not true. It's they same hype that surrounds the "violent video games teach kids that it's okay to be violent."
There are three ways to educate: Positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and punishment.
Positive reinforcement is the reward system. Someone does good you give them a gold star.
Negative reinforcement is often times confused with punishment. However a good way to think of negative reinforcement is by a vulture around the neck that can only be removed after preforming a task. Christianity is a good example of negative reinforcement. I.E. You're born in sin, and if you want to be forgiven you must get baptized.
Punishment, however, is designed to dissuade behavior. It was believed that any kind of physical punishment was completely bad, but the reality is that emotional trauma is much worse to children as they are growing up.
Like all things it takes balance. It's okay to spank as long as it's only enough to show them that what they did was wrong. In other words, don't beat your kids. However, if you want to teach them not to lie, you can start by not lying to them.
Agreed. That is what my folks did as well. Wooden spoon. It stung like a mofo for a few seconds then it just hurt that I had done something bad enough to push my folks so far they would do that.
One thing I find strange with some parents is how they only think of their kids as kids. I've noticed people on another board who seem to view their kids only as they are--and then we have people here like Chaz, who's already got in mind how he's going to handle things as his get older.
One thing with those who don't think ahead is, some of them raise the kids to ONLY be kids, rather than to be growing into adults, so they do whatever they can to make sure they're 100% obedient, never questioning, never taking risks, etc. They make easy kids and crappy adults who don't know how to take care of themselves.
The other thing that can go on is that even with that mindset, they still raise the kids to become decent adults, but didn't actually take into account what it'd be like with them as adults, as if they'd vanish when they moved out. My sister and I come back for visits multiple times a year, or my mom and everyone converge on my aunt's house, but either way, sometimes we repeat stuff that happened when we were kids involving punishments, both the ones we deserved and the ones we didn't. No one's traumatized--I've known abused kids, we were certainly not abused--but it is kinda funny teasing my mom about this stuff, and it just never occurred to her that we'd remember anything of our childhoods when we grew up. I still get on her about when I was 4 and was looking at these lizard toys in Toys-R-Us. She walked away with my brother and sister. Then she came barreling back a minute later "how dare you walk away from me?!!" and I can't remember if I was punished, but I got yelled at for a bit. Totally her fault
.
One thing with those who don't think ahead is, some of them raise the kids to ONLY be kids, rather than to be growing into adults, so they do whatever they can to make sure they're 100% obedient, never questioning, never taking risks, etc. They make easy kids and crappy adults who don't know how to take care of themselves.
The other thing that can go on is that even with that mindset, they still raise the kids to become decent adults, but didn't actually take into account what it'd be like with them as adults, as if they'd vanish when they moved out. My sister and I come back for visits multiple times a year, or my mom and everyone converge on my aunt's house, but either way, sometimes we repeat stuff that happened when we were kids involving punishments, both the ones we deserved and the ones we didn't. No one's traumatized--I've known abused kids, we were certainly not abused--but it is kinda funny teasing my mom about this stuff, and it just never occurred to her that we'd remember anything of our childhoods when we grew up. I still get on her about when I was 4 and was looking at these lizard toys in Toys-R-Us. She walked away with my brother and sister. Then she came barreling back a minute later "how dare you walk away from me?!!" and I can't remember if I was punished, but I got yelled at for a bit. Totally her fault
.I think there was something in the water back in their days that made them all forget how it was to be a kid or something. Either that or humanity went extinct long ago and we're the first generation after the aliens came and cloned us back into existence.
^ This
The best way?
No.
I don't believe that there's a universally best way to raise children, but if pressed I would answer the best way to educate them is with love.
For some children, physical punishments are the most loving way to help them want to change their behavior.
I was spanked infrequently as a child (spatula! woo!).
My wife and I aren't spanking our children as a form of discipline, as taking away privileges, having time-outs on the stairs, and so forth are working for us. Our oldest is 9 years old, so he's already near the age where spanking wouldn't be useful anyway. In general we subscribe to the consequence should relate to the action, so the hardest part for us is making sure we understand the issue, and coming up with a suitable punishment.
Here's an interesting resource for this sort of discussion:
http://moms4mom.com/search?q=punishment
No.
I don't believe that there's a universally best way to raise children, but if pressed I would answer the best way to educate them is with love.
For some children, physical punishments are the most loving way to help them want to change their behavior.
I was spanked infrequently as a child (spatula! woo!).
My wife and I aren't spanking our children as a form of discipline, as taking away privileges, having time-outs on the stairs, and so forth are working for us. Our oldest is 9 years old, so he's already near the age where spanking wouldn't be useful anyway. In general we subscribe to the consequence should relate to the action, so the hardest part for us is making sure we understand the issue, and coming up with a suitable punishment.
Here's an interesting resource for this sort of discussion:
http://moms4mom.com/search?q=punishment
I was hit fairly frequently as a child, enough for me to vow never to use any form of corporal punishment on my own children. Open hand spankings, metal end of a flyswatter, wire coat hanger, etc. I actually have a scar on my ass, fifteen years later, from a hanger.
The problem, now, is that I don't know any other form of child-rearing. To me, the only way of discouraging certain behaviors is to inflict pain. I have two younger sisters, I hit them pretty often while growing up. I have a nephew now I sometimes babysit, and when he acts up my first instinct is to want to smack him. (He's 3 years old)
Therefore, I don't want to have any children. My own personal view is that parental corporal punishment is a form of attack, and I don't want to ever be in a situation where I might physically attack my kids.
The problem, now, is that I don't know any other form of child-rearing. To me, the only way of discouraging certain behaviors is to inflict pain. I have two younger sisters, I hit them pretty often while growing up. I have a nephew now I sometimes babysit, and when he acts up my first instinct is to want to smack him. (He's 3 years old)
Therefore, I don't want to have any children. My own personal view is that parental corporal punishment is a form of attack, and I don't want to ever be in a situation where I might physically attack my kids.
You could read this thread for some suggestions .
But I know what you mean. Fortunately for you it sounds like only a lack of knowledge of what else to do, but I have known a couple adults who were abused as kids who emotionally can't control that side of them, even though they know alternatives, ways they should handle situations.
.But I know what you mean. Fortunately for you it sounds like only a lack of knowledge of what else to do, but I have known a couple adults who were abused as kids who emotionally can't control that side of them, even though they know alternatives, ways they should handle situations.
Finding a way to get over it is a good idea even if you don't have kids...
C
Chazwozel
Finding a way to get over it is a good idea even if you don't have kids...[/QUOTE]
If your first instinct is to smack a kid when he/she acts up, I think it's a good thing you're not a parent.
I'll go through at least 3 or 4 modes of discipline before resorting to spanking. I don't know if it's just my kids, but to tell you the truth, the best thing that works for me is to ask them to stop. For example: my 2 year old daughter is twirling around her dolls by the hair. "Liv, can you put the dolls down and play with them on the floor?" 9/10 she'll do just that, no fuss no muss.
My nephew is a little harder to control; asking him nicely rarely works the first time around, but he has had to deal with a lot more than your typical 5 year old. He's really well behaved for the most part and I rarely have to resort to spanking.
I really, really hate spanking to be honest. And I feel bad doing it, but sometimes it's your last resort option. It's not like it works forever either. After all, you can't go around spanking a teenager if they fuck up... but you can embarrass the shit out of them.
Yeah, see, this is what I mean by planning ahead. I totally get behind your "daughter screws up, you drive her to school and hang out in your bathrobe around her friends, introducing yourself as her dad" idea.I really, really hate spanking to be honest. And I feel bad doing it, but sometimes it's your last resort option. It's not like it works forever either. After all, you can't go around spanking a teenager if they fuck up... but you can embarrass the shit out of them.
W
Wasabi Poptart
I was spanked when I did something really bad, like lying to them. I think my parents stopped using spanking once I got in middle school (5th - 6th grade) because the punishments they could dole out then were worse. Taking my stereo out of my room or taking my phone privileges away was like cutting out my heart. My family was big on intimidation. My mom would get right in my face while yelling at me until I was shrinking away from her. I have yelled at my son, unfortunately, but nothing like what my mom would do to me.
I do spank my son, but use it as the last resort. I give him a chance to correct himself by telling him I don't like when he (insert behavior here). If that doesn't work, he gets a time out. Our pediatrician suggested 1 minute for every year of age, so I stick with that. If he continues, then he will get another time out and a spanking. If it's something where he acts out, then straightens up and acts out again a few hours later, I start the process over from step one. Young children don't remember things the same way that we do which is why you find yourself repeating things a lot before it starts to stick. It's really important to be consistent no matter how you decide to discipline your child. If you don't like a certain behavior, don't laugh it off the first 10 times your child does it then suddenly punish him for doing it the 11th time. You've already taught him that it's ok. It's also a good thing to remember that your children are always watching and listening to you. Be an example of what you want them to do and they will generally follow. My son is a very polite and well-spoken 4-year-old. I have always made sure I say please, thank you, excuse me, etc. so that he would pick it up, too.
I do spank my son, but use it as the last resort. I give him a chance to correct himself by telling him I don't like when he (insert behavior here). If that doesn't work, he gets a time out. Our pediatrician suggested 1 minute for every year of age, so I stick with that. If he continues, then he will get another time out and a spanking. If it's something where he acts out, then straightens up and acts out again a few hours later, I start the process over from step one. Young children don't remember things the same way that we do which is why you find yourself repeating things a lot before it starts to stick. It's really important to be consistent no matter how you decide to discipline your child. If you don't like a certain behavior, don't laugh it off the first 10 times your child does it then suddenly punish him for doing it the 11th time. You've already taught him that it's ok. It's also a good thing to remember that your children are always watching and listening to you. Be an example of what you want them to do and they will generally follow. My son is a very polite and well-spoken 4-year-old. I have always made sure I say please, thank you, excuse me, etc. so that he would pick it up, too.
Cajungal
Staff member
^That's pretty much exactly what I've been taught, Wildsoul. I've heard a lot of parents tell a confused kid who's just been punished, "He knows what he did!" when really they don't. Sure, they definitely play dumb sometimes to get out of trouble and get sympathy from someone who's not with them 24/7. But with a really young kid you need to be specific about what you expect from them and, like you said, consistent in your reactions. I'm not a parent, but all that seems pretty smart to me.
K
KenjiFinster
Catholic kid here. I was spanked 'till 2nd grade.
But my mom got a big talent of hurting with words. When I was 12, I was with her and my brother in a store, checking the games. I asked her if she could get us a Genesis, and she went on a verbal tirade for about 20 minutes basically saying "Do you want me to become a whore to get you a play thingy?" in the middle of the store. Since that moment, I stopped asking her for anything.
But my mom got a big talent of hurting with words. When I was 12, I was with her and my brother in a store, checking the games. I asked her if she could get us a Genesis, and she went on a verbal tirade for about 20 minutes basically saying "Do you want me to become a whore to get you a play thingy?" in the middle of the store. Since that moment, I stopped asking her for anything.
C
Chibibar
There are soooo many different things you can do, but it is a learning process. You can check out books and stuff (from libraries) on tips.
Cajungal
Staff member
That's pretty rough. :\
- Status