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Story so far:

http://live.gizmodo.com/

might as well merge with the pvp comic thread.

I made a new thread to be more specific. That one was (supposedly) about the comic.

Way cheaper than I thought it would be. I love that they have a docking keyboard for it already. This will probably be my next computer.

How much?

MindDetective said:

Way cheaper than I thought it would be. I love that they have a docking keyboard for it already. This will probably be my next computer.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I did not expect that. It looks really damn nice. Love the prepaid 3G stuff through ATT. Cheap. Should be interesting to see how this works out. Isn't powerful enough for anything I do but I could see my wife using it.

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

Dave said:

How much?

Click to expand...

499 base for 16gigs. Extra 100 for 32 and another 100 for 64 gigs. Add 130 to that if you want built in 3g support.

$499 for the base model. more if you want 3G, more if you want more than 16GB of storage.

Honestly I don't think this is a first gen buy for me. I'll probably pick one up eventually for development purposes, but I'm really interested to see Lenovo's netbook/tablet combo.

MindDetective said:

Way cheaper than I thought it would be. I love that they have a docking keyboard for it already. This will probably be my next computer.

Click to expand...

It's not a computer

The Lovely Boner;334331][QUOTE=MindDetective said:

Way cheaper than I thought it would be. I love that they have a docking keyboard for it already. This will probably be my next computer.

Click to expand...

It's not a computer[/QUOTE]

I could see some people using this as their computer. You can buy music/movies directly from it, there's a word processor, it has email, web browser, and you can buy a keyboard for it. Space would be the only issue.

Shakey;334335][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;334331][QUOTE=MindDetective said:

Way cheaper than I thought it would be. I love that they have a docking keyboard for it already. This will probably be my next computer.

Click to expand...

It's not a computer[/QUOTE]

I could see some people using this as their computer. You can buy music/movies directly from it, there's a word processor, it has email, web browser, and you can buy a keyboard for it. Space would be the only issue.[/QUOTE]

Yup.

MindDetective;334338][QUOTE=Shakey;334335][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;334331][QUOTE=MindDetective said:

Way cheaper than I thought it would be. I love that they have a docking keyboard for it already. This will probably be my next computer.

Click to expand...

It's not a computer[/QUOTE]

I could see some people using this as their computer. You can buy music/movies directly from it, there's a word processor, it has email, web browser, and you can buy a keyboard for it. Space would be the only issue.[/QUOTE]

Yup.[/QUOTE]

So what, you can run Office on it?

Probably not Office right away but it seems to run iWork. I like the idea of using this for presentations.

The 64GB ipod touch costs $399, and the 64GB (no 3G) iPad $699 for a larger screen and beefier specs isn't a bad price jump, considering neither has phone capability.

zero said:

So what, you can run Office on it?

Click to expand...

iWork, which can open and save Office documents.

klew said:

The 64GB ipod touch costs $399, and the 64GB (no 3G) iPad $699 for a larger screen and beefier specs isn't a bad price jump, considering neither has phone capability.

Click to expand...

So you still have to carry a phone around with this? You would think a 3g device would only need a bluetooth headset to be a phone.

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.

I've had cellphones for so long, I don't remember what it costs to make a long distance call. I can't see how skype will make up for the price of a high speed internet connection.

sixpackshaker said:

I've had cellphones for so long, I don't remember what it costs to make a long distance call. I can't see how skype will make up for the price of a high speed internet connection.

Click to expand...

I do not understand what that sentence means.

Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?

Chazwozel;334375][QUOTE=Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?[/QUOTE]


This thing IS a netbook, basically.

Chazwozel;334375][QUOTE=Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?[/QUOTE]

Ummm... I think you are free to do whatever you want? I dunno what the argument is. Yes, it sucks it doesn't have a phone built in but it's not a phone, it's a big, rather powerful iPod Touch/Netbook.

MindDetective;334376][QUOTE=Chazwozel;334375][QUOTE=Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?[/QUOTE]


This thing IS a netbook, basically.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure about it...

My biggest doubt about it is... The damn thing is unlocked, right? I mean, I can run whatever application I want without going through any app store, right?

If true, then yeah, it's just a tablet netbook... the kind of thing HP (and others) has been doing for 5 years... If not, then it's just an iPhone without the phone functions (and too big to fit in your pocket).

Espy;334370][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:

I've had cellphones for so long, I don't remember what it costs to make a long distance call. I can't see how skype will make up for the price of a high speed internet connection.

Click to expand...

I do not understand what that sentence means.[/QUOTE]

well, skype is mostly free, but you are looking at $30 a month for a high speed connection. Or if you are me, $30 dsl and $30 for 3g.

Espy;334392][QUOTE=Chazwozel;334375][QUOTE=Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?[/QUOTE]

Ummm... I think you are free to do whatever you want? I dunno what the argument is. Yes, it sucks it doesn't have a phone built in but it's not a phone, it's a big, rather powerful iPod Touch/Netbook.[/QUOTE]


My argument is that this was hyped to be the next big thing and it's really just a big, as you say, iTouch. I really don't see a purpose to it if it's not a tablet PC.

zero;334394][QUOTE=MindDetective;334376][QUOTE=Chazwozel;334375][QUOTE=Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?[/QUOTE]


This thing IS a netbook, basically.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure about it...

My biggest doubt about it is... The damn thing is unlocked, right? I mean, I can run whatever application I want without going through any app store, right?

If true, then yeah, it's just a tablet netbook... the kind of thing HP (and others) has been doing for 5 years... If not, then it's just an iPhone without the phone functions (and too big to fit in your pocket).[/QUOTE]

No, it uses the App store just like the iPod Touch/iPhone. And as a user of those devices and with over a million apps in the store it's going to have TONS of things available for it. It's not a full computer but it's much more than a iPod touch. Think of it as an in between for people who want basic computer power with the amazing diversity of the app store.

Yeah, I'm an Apple apologist of the deepest sort, and I can't think of a single use for this thing.

Also it has a eBook store built in like the Kindle. I'm with you Fade, I got nothing for it right now but down the line I can see it becoming something huge. How much is a Kindle? How much is an iPod? 200 each? Give or take a hundred? For 500 bucks you can have both + a basic computer + the HUGE app store. Not a bad deal. I'd go for it over a Kindle any day if I was in the market for something like that.

Chazwozel;334396][QUOTE=Espy;334392][QUOTE=Chazwozel;334375][QUOTE=Espy;334362][QUOTE=Shakey said:

It does have bluetooth, so the question is if Skype will work with it.

Click to expand...

Which is what people wanted to know about the iPod Touch/iPhone in the beginning. It will do all this in time. Right now it's not doing multi-tasking, which it needs to do sooner than later. It has many limitations right now, although being able to use the ENTIRE iPhone app store makes them much more minimal.[/QUOTE]

The practicality of this thing flew out the window for me when it didn't have phone abilities. Why not just carry a netbook with a Blackberry?[/QUOTE]


Ummm... I think you are free to do whatever you want? I dunno what the argument is. Yes, it sucks it doesn't have a phone built in but it's not a phone, it's a big, rather powerful iPod Touch/Netbook.[/QUOTE]


My argument is that this was hyped to be the next big thing and it's really just a big, as you say, iTouch. I really don't see a purpose to it if it's not a tablet PC.[/QUOTE]

Everything Apple comes out with is overhyped.

Espy;334397][QUOTE=zero said:

I'm not sure about it...

My biggest doubt about it is... The damn thing is unlocked, right? I mean, I can run whatever application I want without going through any app store, right?

If true, then yeah, it's just a tablet netbook... the kind of thing HP (and others) has been doing for 5 years... If not, then it's just an iPhone without the phone functions (and too big to fit in your pocket).

Click to expand...

No, it uses the App store just like the iPod Touch/iPhone. And as a user of those devices and with over a million apps in the store it's going to have TONS of things available for it. It's not a full computer but it's much more than a iPod touch. Think of it as an in between for people who want basic computer power with the amazing diversity of the app store.[/QUOTE]

TONS of things available for it = Only the software Apple think I should run

Seriously, you can't even begin to compare the apple application store with the mass of software available on open platforms (Including Apple's own OSX!!). Give me an open platform (yes, even the crap that is Windows Mobile) over that vendor-locking bullshit any day.

About it being much more than an iPhone... well, let's see...no camera, no USB (it has at least bluetooth, I hope!)... well, it's a lot BIGGER, I give you that...

Here's a link to the video they have put out ( http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/) . A little cheesy but it shows the device off. The more I see of it the slicker it looks. If the eReader is actually really good then I might just have to pick up one of these down the line when the memory goes up.

No multitasking and no Flash are major disappointments for me.

Still can see myself wanting one down the line though.

Espy said:

Also it has a eBook store built in like the Kindle. I'm with you Fade, I got nothing for it right now but down the line I can see it becoming something huge.

Click to expand...

It would be great if it was an all-in-one device: phone, camera, netbook, Kindle, but as is, it's just a fancy pants netbook with a touchscreen. Folks will still need to carry along their iPhones with this thing and it won't have computer features like Office2010 (which netbooks do).

I was excited for this thing because it looked like it was going to be an all-in-one device so traveling folk like me don't have to carry 3 gadgets at once. Right now, I might as well stick to my Blackberry and netbook.

zero said:

TONS of things available for it = Only the software Apple think I should run

Click to expand...

Fair enough, I guess when I see that it has over 140,000 apps from the app store ready to run at day one I don't see that as terribly limited. Again, it's not a "computer". It's designed to be something more than a iPhone and less than a full fledged computer. Think Super Kindle I suppose. And really, I'm not trying to sway anyone here, for all I know the thing sucks balls but it's always fun to watch people froth when apple dares to release a product.

Chazwozel said:

I was excited for this thing because it looked like it was going to be an all-in-one device so traveling folk like me don't have to carry 3 gadgets at once. Right now, I might as well stick to my Blackberry and netbook.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. I have no use for this until I decide to get an eBook reader, then I won't need my laptop for teaching anymore and can just use this (or something like it) as my main on the go device.

Why would you want this as a phone? It's huge. You seriously want to have to carry this thing around as your phone?

Shakey said:

Why would you want this as a phone? It's huge. You seriously want to have to carry this thing around as your phone?

Click to expand...

I think he meant using a blue tooth headset. Which would be cool, obviously it wouldn't work when driving or anything but it could work in other settings.

Espy;334409][QUOTE=zero said:

TONS of things available for it = Only the software Apple think I should run

Click to expand...

Fair enough, I guess when I see that it has over 140,000 apps from the app store ready to run at day one I don't see that as terribly limited. Again, it's not a "computer". It's designed to be something more than a iPhone and less than a full fledged computer. Think Super Kindle I suppose. And really, I'm not trying to sway anyone here, for all I know the thing sucks balls but it's always fun to watch people froth when apple dares to release a product.[/QUOTE]

What I (and I assume I speak for the majority of traveling workers) want IS a full fledged computer combined with a smart phone and Kindle. I want the ultimate traveling companion for business and leisure, which I thought, was the whole point of this thing.

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

Shakey said:

Why would you want this as a phone? It's huge. You seriously want to have to carry this thing around as your phone?

Click to expand...

Use a bluetooth headset when you have the tablet out (say on the train). Have an additional iPhone port, docked inside it (like a laptop card). That way you can dock you iPhone right inside the tablet to charge and take it out when you just want the phone around. I don't think it's that crazy a concept.

Chazwozel;334412][QUOTE=Espy;334409][QUOTE=zero said:

TONS of things available for it = Only the software Apple think I should run

Click to expand...

Fair enough, I guess when I see that it has over 140,000 apps from the app store ready to run at day one I don't see that as terribly limited. Again, it's not a "computer". It's designed to be something more than a iPhone and less than a full fledged computer. Think Super Kindle I suppose. And really, I'm not trying to sway anyone here, for all I know the thing sucks balls but it's always fun to watch people froth when apple dares to release a product.[/QUOTE]

What I (and I assume I speak for the majority of traveling workers) want IS a full fledged computer combined with a smart phone and Kindle. I want the ultimate traveling companion for business and leisure, which I thought, was the whole point of this thing.[/QUOTE]

Yup, I get that, but I never got the impression anyone (in the tech blog world anyway) leading up to this thought it was going to be a full fledged computer. It's, like I said, a super kindle/iPod + some computer basics. At least for now. Remember the iPhone was SUPER limited when it first came out... now it has over a million apps. It could change. I mean with the ability to use 3G networks via ATT and bluetooth... well it "could" do many other things.

Chazwozel said:

What I (and I assume I speak for the majority of traveling workers) want IS a full fledged computer combined with a smart phone and Kindle. I want the ultimate traveling companion for business and leisure, which I thought, was the whole point of this thing.

Click to expand...

Well, there are a few 3g-enabled netbooks around that CAN make and receive phone calls. In fact, it seems to me Nokia is about to release one.

Chazwozel said:

Use a bluetooth headset when you have the tablet out (say on the train). Have an additional iPhone port, docked inside it (like a laptop card). That way you can dock you iPhone right inside the tablet to charge and take it out when you just want the phone around. I don't think it's that crazy a concept.

Click to expand...

So you'd still have to have your iPhone with you...

fade said:

I can't think of a single use for this thing.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking as well, I can only see this as competition for a netbook, but even then it's iffy. I can't imagine typing for a while on that thing. It looks nice, but it's basically just a beefed up Iphone. I guess I was just expecting more of it.

It'll be interesting to see how the new processor holds it's own vs Intel. I'm assuming it won't be all that great, but more cost effective for Apple.

Heh:

http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/22/apples-tim-cook-why-dont-we-make-netbooks-because-they-suck/

"“For us, it’s about doing great products,” Cook said during today’s call discussing Apple’s (surprisingly strong) second quarter earnings. “When I look at netbooks, I see cramped keyboards, terrible software, junky hardware, very small screens. It’s just not a good consumer experience and not something we would put the Mac brand on. It’s a segment we would not choose to play in.”"

So their solution is no keyboard, small screen and junky hardware. Software we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.

And from a picture of a previous Apple presentation:

Espy said:

Remember the iPhone was SUPER limited when it first came out... now it has over a million apps.

Click to expand...

And you can only run one at a time.

I will say I was disappointed with the iPad however, I recognize that it will drive costs down for the iPod Touch and hopefully some features as well. I just want an iPod Touch with a video/still camera and a stronger processor. I need something I can carry around in my pocket. The iPad may have found a niche market to fill, but so did AppleTV. Sometimes a niche is empty for a reason.

Adammon said:

I will say I was disappointed with the iPad however, I recognize that it will drive costs down for the iPod Touch and hopefully some features as well. I just want an iPod Touch with a video/still camera and a stronger processor. I need something I can carry around in my pocket. The iPad may have found a niche market to fill, but so did AppleTV. Sometimes a niche is empty for a reason.

Click to expand...

Yeah, honestly, with my iPod touch I have little use for this right now. The eBook reader is the most appealing thing to me, if I had to choose between this and a kindle well... not a hard choice.

Chaz, what's gained by pulling out a tablet on the train over just whipping out my 15" MacBook Pro? Sure it's more expensive, but I can do anything on/with it. If I want 3G, I plug in a 3G stick.

Also 16Gb? WTF? The iTampon is making me sad


URGHHGH.

NO MULTITASKING!? That's rifuckingdiculous. Windows 3.1 had multi-fucking-tasking!

How about the Android knockoffs down the road? I can see people want more out of a device like this and that might happen eventually...

Chazwozel said:

I was excited for this thing because it looked like it was going to be an all-in-one device so traveling folk like me don't have to carry 3 gadgets at once. Right now, I might as well stick to my Blackberry and netbook.

Click to expand...

This is basically where I am with this. I still want one, but it doesn't have near the functionality that I had hoped it would.

Remember this is first gen.

I am guessing that they will eventually add a camera.
now if they ever decide to add SD card slot (allow your own content) then we will have a winner IMO (and built in 3G system without the extra 130$ but option to activate or not)

Chibibar said:

Remember this is first gen.

I am guessing that they will eventually add a camera.
now if they ever decide to add SD card slot (allow your own content) then we will have a winner IMO (and built in 3G system without the extra 130$ but option to activate or not)

Click to expand...

AND add an USB port
AND ditch the "application-store only" restriction.

THEN it would be as good as any other Tablet PC...

Ok, that thing IS thin, I grant you that...

They don't want to be like other tablet PC's. Nobody wants the other tablets that are out. Apple is banking on the idea that people just want to be able to watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and easily get games and fun little apps. If you want to do more, this isn't for you. Time will tell if they are right.

It is an internet/media device, really. It will have some other functionality, which makes it a very versatile media device. Still, I could see this spawning a serious remake on the tablet market.

Shakey said:

They don't want to be like other tablet PC's. Nobody wants the other tablets that are out. Apple is banking on the idea that people just want to be able to watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and easily get games and fun little apps. If you want to do more, this isn't for you. Time will tell if they are right.

Click to expand...

Just not more than one thing at a time.

Adammon;334491][QUOTE=Shakey said:

They don't want to be like other tablet PC's. Nobody wants the other tablets that are out. Apple is banking on the idea that people just want to be able to watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and easily get games and fun little apps. If you want to do more, this isn't for you. Time will tell if they are right.

Click to expand...

Just not more than one thing at a time.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, no multitasking is bad.

Adammon;334491][QUOTE=Shakey said:

They don't want to be like other tablet PC's. Nobody wants the other tablets that are out. Apple is banking on the idea that people just want to be able to watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and easily get games and fun little apps. If you want to do more, this isn't for you. Time will tell if they are right.

Click to expand...

Just not more than one thing at a time.[/QUOTE]

That's a valid criticism, and something that should be fixed. I just don't get why people are upset it's not a tablet that they can get from some other company.

People just expect better from Apple, not less from Apple.

Shakey said:

They don't want to be like other tablet PC's. Nobody wants the other tablets that are out. Apple is banking on the idea that people just want to be able to watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and easily get games and fun little apps. If you want to do more, this isn't for you. Time will tell if they are right.

Click to expand...

Well, sure, but you can do all those things on any other tablet. You can't argue the iPad is better because it does LESS. It must have real advantages over regular tablets. Let's see them...

- It IS cheaper. The base model with 3G and 16 Gb is $630... The basic tablet PC starts at around $950. Of course, 16 GB is really limited, but even the 64Gb model still has a price advantage at $830. It is a bit unusual for apple to go for the price appeal, but I must admit they have the edge there.

- It is VERY thin. Most tablets are the "convertible" model, a regular notebook with a screen that can be folded over the keyboard and remain visible. Nowhere near the 13mm of the iPad. It is a lot lighter too.

Now, I didn't perform a through research, but if you're willing to pay $120 more, and carry 3.2 lbs more (Weight is really one of the iPad's strengths), you can have a full tablet from hp that can do every single thing the iPad can, and in addition, has a full keyboard, USB, SD card, webcam, 160 Gb of storage and the most important: absolutely NO vendor lock-in.

sixpackshaker said:

People just expect better from Apple, not less from Apple.

Click to expand...

Precisely. I could not have stated it better myself. It is not a BAD device. It's just that this time it seems Apple is behind the competition.

Take the iPhone for instance. It was arguably one of the most advanced smartphones at the time it was released.
The iPad? Not so much.

I want this thing, if only for next Halloween's Wesley Crusher costume.

Shakey said:

That's a valid criticism, and something that should be fixed. I just don't get why people are upset it's not a tablet that they can get from some other company.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it upset, but disappointed. I was actually hoping that this would be a tablet netbook, with some Apple nifties brought in.

All in all it's not a revolutionary product, nor does it seem to hit a market segment like all other Apple products do. I just can't imagine that there are a lot of people that were waiting for exactly this.

Look at the Nokia N900 if you want an all in one device.

Apple products usually are behind, but they give what people really want and make it easy to use. Remember when the iPhone first came out? No 3g, a lack of flash, and tied to ATT was supposed to be it's demise.

Seraphyn said:

nor does it seem to hit a market segment like all other Apple products do.

Click to expand...

They stated very clearly in the presentation they are not trying to hit ANY market. They are creating a market. They have Laptops small and big, they have desktops and they have iPods and phones. If you want one of those get one. This is meant to be something different. Whether it will create a new market is another story, but they are taking a chance, and for us tech geeks thats always a good thing, it means sometimes we get duds and sometimes we get awesome stuff.

That's why it is probably not appropriate to really compare it to a netbook. It really should be a "mediapad" or something like that. Even then, I think the mediapad can be done better than this.

MindDetective said:

That's why it is probably not appropriate to really compare it to a netbook. It really should be a "mediapad" or something like that. Even then, I think the mediapad can be done better than this.

Click to expand...

Yeah, "mediapad" sounds about right. Like I said before, it's kind of a Kindle on a bajillion steroids. Netbooks are small laptops. This is not.

MindDetective said:

That's why it is probably not appropriate to really compare it to a netbook. It really should be a "mediapad" or something like that. Even then, I think the mediapad can be done better than this.

Click to expand...

I think it's more of a MaxiPad than a MediaPad.

Shakey said:

Look at the Nokia N900 if you want an all in one device.

Apple products usually are behind, but they give what people really want and make it easy to use. Remember when the iPhone first came out? No 3g, a lack of flash, and tied to ATT was supposed to be it's demise.

Click to expand...

It is as if Apple knows what they wanted to put in it, but held back for the next iteration, so it could be seen as a significant improvement. I just read that typing on it with two hands is challenging, due to the cramped virtual keyboard and the rounded back (think iphone 3G/S), so the whole thing tends to rock if it is laid on a tabletop. Perhaps the second gen will have a flat back to make it easier to type, and they could make it sound like "we're giving you what you asked for even though we could have done it the first time."

fade said:

Chaz, what's gained by pulling out a tablet on the train over just whipping out my 15" MacBook Pro? Sure it's more expensive, but I can do anything on/with it. If I want 3G, I plug in a 3G stick.

Click to expand...

Well that's my point. The iPad is kinda worthless.

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

klew;334523][QUOTE=Shakey said:

Look at the Nokia N900 if you want an all in one device.

Apple products usually are behind, but they give what people really want and make it easy to use. Remember when the iPhone first came out? No 3g, a lack of flash, and tied to ATT was supposed to be it's demise.

Click to expand...

It is as if Apple knows what they wanted to put in it, but held back for the next iteration, so it could be seen as a significant improvement. I just read that typing on it with two hands is challenging, due to the cramped virtual keyboard and the rounded back (think iphone 3G/S), so the whole thing tends to rock if it is laid on a tabletop. Perhaps the second gen will have a flat back to make it easier to type, and they could make it sound like "we're giving you what you asked for even though we could have done it the first time."[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure this is their gimmick. There are sure enough stupid Apple fanboys to blindly buy this thing in first gen and then rush to get the second gen a year later.

zero said:

My biggest doubt about it is... The damn thing is unlocked, right? I mean, I can run whatever application I want without going through any app store, right?

Click to expand...

No, it's the carrier that's unlocked. You can use whatever carrier you want for the data plan, so long as they support GSM Micro-SIM.

The iPhone/iPod Touch can already function as a remote for Keynote. If the iPad version of Keynote works the same way, I can see the iPad/iPod Touch being a decent presentation combo, especially since the iPad can output to VGA or composite/component (with appropriate adapter).

The specs page says that the 3G will be 'data only.'

--Patrick

Espy said:

They stated very clearly in the presentation they are not trying to hit ANY market. They are creating a market.

Click to expand...

Which really just makes me think that they don't know who their customer is (or who they want it to be anyway). That's a really bad sign.

They are acting as tastemakers now...

I get to play with the development kit for this on monday.

:wub:

Meh, I'm not impressed. Call me back when it has some (or all) of the following:

* HD resolution screen. 1024x768 is NOT "high resolution".
* HDMI output with support for HD resolutions (iPad currently only does 1024x768 via VGA, or 576p/480p via component)
* One of the upcoming screen technologies that aim to combine the best of LCDs and eInk. Something that's easier on the eyes for reading than a back-lit screen, and preferably with better battery life as well.
* SD card slot built-in
* TV-tuner or support for one (there's supposed to be a new mobile digital broadcast standard coming)

If I'm going to get excited about a new wave of portable media devices, I want them to excel at something besides form factor.

I can see this thing being great for research.

figmentPez said:

Meh, I'm not impressed. Call me back when it has some (or all) of the following:

* HD resolution screen. 1024x768 is NOT "high resolution".
* HDMI output with support for HD resolutions (iPad currently only does 1024x768 via VGA, or 576p/480p via component)
* One of the upcoming screen technologies that aim to combine the best of LCDs and eInk. Something that's easier on the eyes for reading than a back-lit screen, and preferably with better battery life as well.
* SD card slot built-in
* TV-tuner or support for one (there's supposed to be a new mobile digital broadcast standard coming)

If I'm going to get excited about a new wave of portable media devices, I want them to excel at something besides form factor.

Click to expand...

1. With such a small screen, that should be fine.
2. I agree. HD output is needed.
3. Again, agreed. I would not want to read a book on a backlit screen, it will cause a lot of eyestrain.
4. Again, I agree, but apple doesn't like SD cards. They take away from the fancy look, so it is something you will always deal with.
5. I don't think it's really needed. Why watch broadcast TV when you have an unlimited data plan or WiFi?

From Ars Technia:

All of the above being said, I'll buy an iPad anyway because it's my job to be up on this kind of thing. It'll probably also be the first time that I \"jailbreak\" a device. That's because Apple's closed ecosystem is feeling less and less like an exclusive resort and more like Big Love's Juniper Creek compound.

If the company doesn't figure out this whole Internet thing, soon, they're ultimately destined to go the way of the once-mighty AOL. And if you're itching to retort that Apple really does \"get\" the cloud, as is clearly evidenced by the amazing MobileMe service, then congratulations—you're now ready to buy yourself some prairie garb and take that second wife you've been eyeing.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this.

Dusty668 said:

Pretty much this.

Click to expand...

Nice, always wanted more then one wife as long as she doesn't get to talk back...

You'd have to get the first one before thinking about the second.

chakz said:

I can see this thing being great for research.

Click to expand...

How so? Research is what I do, and when I look at all the computing tasks involved in my research, I can't see ANY of those even remotely possible on the iPad (yes, not even writing, unless apple releases some neat LaTeX editor for it).

chakz said:

I can see this thing being great for research.

Click to expand...

Aside from reading pdf files, how is this good for research? Is it going to give me blowjobs while I run the HPLC?

Chazwozel;334659][QUOTE=chakz said:

I can see this thing being great for research.

Click to expand...

Aside from reading pdf files, how is this good for research? Is it going to give me blowjobs while I run the HPLC?[/QUOTE]

I could use it in a psychology lab, especially if I was dealing with children or the elderly. An app with big, user friendly buttons on it would make for a great tool for my research. I'm not sure if the trade-offs in processing time or storage limitations would be worth it, though.

Shadazz said:

I get to play with the development kit for this on monday.

:wub:

Click to expand...

I'll be right there downloading it with you. Hopefully the simulator will be enough to get a better feel for the device. Part of me wants to pick one up just to see what can be done with it.

zero;334657][QUOTE=chakz said:

I can see this thing being great for research.

Click to expand...

How so? Research is what I do, and when I look at all the computing tasks involved in my research, I can't see ANY of those even remotely possible on the iPad (yes, not even writing, unless apple releases some neat LaTeX editor for it).[/QUOTE]


Ha, I was thinking as a student, for taking notes, and exploring the web while your at a library or basically on the go. Just because it would be easier to get around with this thing than a laptop. I suppose if you were doing something more serious than that you would need a laptop. There would probably need to be a few apps to flesh it out for note taking, but ultimately a note book only costs 89 cents.

So I guess basally I'm thinking of it as a note book with an internet connection? Which would be awesome, but not worth 500 bucks- or maybe it would be. If I were rich I'd give it a try, I'm not so I won't.

Chazwozel;334659][QUOTE=chakz said:

I can see this thing being great for research.

Click to expand...

Aside from reading pdf files, how is this good for research? Is it going to give me blowjobs while I run the HPLC?[/QUOTE]

Well if the latest pvp is any clue your going to have to wait a while for that one.

As far as taking notes in it/comparing it to an actual notebook, I didn't think you could "write" in it. I thought you had to input via some detachable keyboard?

On-screen keyboard.

Shakey said:

On-screen keyboard.

Click to expand...

I'm a little dubious at being able to touch-type with any sort of speed/accuracy and keep up with a college lecture. But I guess I'd have to see it in action/try for myself to see how hard/easy that would be.

Seems to work for the iPhone. I've never used it though, so I can't say how well it works either.

Yes, but it's only a matter of time before someone develops an app that lets you write in it.

Shakey said:

Seems to work for the iPhone. I've never used it though, so I can't say how well it works either.

Click to expand...

Ohh, touch keyboards, I remember that... (shudder)



Again, it's a trade-off. Tablets with folding keyboards are much larger (and heavier). But you can't compare the typing on a real keyboard with a touch-sensitive one. On this matter, I think I'll side with Apple (although I hate touch keyboards)... portability is king.

I'll wait for the price to drop and when they come out with several differnt versions of the same product. I'm quite happy with my itouch thank you very much

The Lovely Boner;334696][QUOTE=Shakey said:

On-screen keyboard.

Click to expand...

I'm a little dubious at being able to touch-type with any sort of speed/accuracy and keep up with a college lecture. But I guess I'd have to see it in action/try for myself to see how hard/easy that would be.[/QUOTE]

For a college lecture, nothing will ever beat a little pen recorder.

I got by great in grad school with my toshiba notebook and it's little flip face tablet screen. I would download the powerpoint lecture and be able to scribble my notes on the slides, instead of printing out 30 some odd pages like everyone else did. When studying for exams I'd sync up the recorder to the slide lectures and be able to essentially do the whole lecture over again.

Chazwozel;334726][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;334696][QUOTE=Shakey said:

On-screen keyboard.

Click to expand...

I'm a little dubious at being able to touch-type with any sort of speed/accuracy and keep up with a college lecture. But I guess I'd have to see it in action/try for myself to see how hard/easy that would be.[/QUOTE]

For a college lecture, nothing will ever beat a little pen recorder.

I got by great in grad school with my toshiba notebook and it's little flip face tablet screen. I would download the powerpoint lecture and be able to scribble my notes on the slides, instead of printing out 30 some odd pages like everyone else did. When studying for exams I'd sync up the recorder to the slide lectures and be able to essentially do the whole lecture over again.[/QUOTE]

Sounds awesome, like a real time zotero.



You know I'm just honestly curious to see where this thing goes.

Remember the "1984" commercial that introduced the Mac? Well now Apple is the Big Brother in that scenario. You only get to run what Apple says you can run. Developers only get to develop what Apple will let them develop.

And the fanbois will continue to suckle at Steve Jobs' cock.

Yeah, um, except pretty much every Apple "fanboi" site I've been to in the hours since the release has said exactly that.

chakz;334765][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

For a college lecture, nothing will ever beat a little pen recorder.

I got by great in grad school with my toshiba notebook and it's little flip face tablet screen. I would download the powerpoint lecture and be able to scribble my notes on the slides, instead of printing out 30 some odd pages like everyone else did. When studying for exams I'd sync up the recorder to the slide lectures and be able to essentially do the whole lecture over again.

Click to expand...

Sounds awesome, like a real time zotero.



You know I'm just honestly curious to see where this thing goes.[/QUOTE]

I can't imagine that taking long to come out via the app store.

I think I'm the only one who thinks this is a true gimmicky thing if ever.

The cheaper model, wifi, is like $400. Now, portability aside, you can get a nice Netbook laptop for less than $400 that has more power specs, can easily handle Adobe Flash, and has your generic connection ports like USB, that the iPad lacks. It's great for just checking email or reading websites but it doesnt seem like its built for serious text inputing, i.e. replying to an email or forum post. I'm sure it'll be great for Quicktime type movies, but Youtube, and other flash based media? No go. If it was like $200 and supported Flash, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as just a cheap way to browse websites on the go but my cell phone (which isnt a Blackberry or iPhone) can view the internet at 3G speed, use Flash, Java, and HTML, etc.

Mav said:

I think I'm the only one who thinks this is a true gimmicky thing if ever.

The cheaper model, wifi, is like $400. Now, portability aside, you can get a nice Netbook laptop for less than $400 that has more power specs, can easily handle Adobe Flash, and has your generic connection ports like USB, that the iPad lacks. It's great for just checking email or reading websites but it doesnt seem like its built for serious text inputing, i.e. replying to an email or forum post. I'm sure it'll be great for Quicktime type movies, but Youtube, and other flash based media? No go. If it was like $200 and supported Flash, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as just a cheap way to browse websites on the go but my cell phone (which isnt a Blackberry or iPhone) can view the internet at 3G speed, use Flash, Java, and HTML, etc.

Click to expand...

Mav ol buddy, you are 100% correct.

Mav said:

I think I'm the only one who thinks this is a true gimmicky thing if ever.

Click to expand...

Not that you're necessarily wrong, but this is basically what a lot of people have been saying.

The only advantages I can see over a netbook are the 10 hours of battery when viewing video (but no user-replaceable battery = no thanks) and the instant-on (vs boot up wait time). Those two things are not worth the extra money.

For those that want more, keep an eye out for the MSI tablet coming out this year. It runs Android, but details are sparse right now. Not sure how open it will be either.

Mav said:

I think I'm the only one who thinks this is a true gimmicky thing if ever.

The cheaper model, wifi, is like $400. Now, portability aside, you can get a nice Netbook laptop for less than $400 that has more power specs, can easily handle Adobe Flash, and has your generic connection ports like USB, that the iPad lacks. It's great for just checking email or reading websites but it doesnt seem like its built for serious text inputing, i.e. replying to an email or forum post. I'm sure it'll be great for Quicktime type movies, but Youtube, and other flash based media? No go. If it was like $200 and supported Flash, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as just a cheap way to browse websites on the go but my cell phone (which isnt a Blackberry or iPhone) can view the internet at 3G speed, use Flash, Java, and HTML, etc.

Click to expand...

Kind of reminds you of the wii launch eh?

chakz said:

Kind of reminds you of the wii launch eh?

Click to expand...

No DVD player???????

The Wii had a niche and served it well.

Do you remember when the iphone first came out?

It was a music and video player with a phone.

That was it. You could barely use it for anything else. The data rate was too slow to be usable for browsing or maps. You couldn't load programs on it. The high end model had some 8GB of space.

While there were other smartphones out there, the iphone didn't even compete with them at ANYTHING.

It literally cracked open its own market.

Now it's only 3 years later, and the iPhone, with all its warts, is THE smartphone to beat. And NO ONE comes even close to giving as good a user experience as it. It wasn't until last year that they finally got me (the higher speed connection, compass, better GPS, and promise of tethering...) but people are going to it in droves.

Android, frankly, pales in comparison. Because Apple very, very tightly controls the hardware, environment (what's running), and even the software that people are allowed to download the job of developing an app is almost trivial compared to developing for the Android where you have to account for 10 different platforms, and the possibility that the user may be running so much stuff in the background that your app can't work flawlessly. The user has to understand and _think_ about their phone instead of simply using it.

I can totally see myself using the ipad all day, every day. Yes, I have two monitors, but I'd love a third display showing a datasheet, book, or just keeping an eye on a wootoff. I'd love to be able to take not just all my music and movies, but books with me wherever I am. The iphone is still lightyears beyond windows mobile and android in terms of browsing the internet, but it still can't compete with a computer. The iPad should be significantly better for browsing. I'd love having it in my car for both music and GPS navigation.

I can see myself leaving my laptop behind on vacation, and using just the ipad.

It is, for all intents and purposes, the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy for $30/month.

That being said, I doubt I'm getting one yet. Apple is seriously holding out in additional features. And I expect that skype and other voip apps will still only work on a wifi network.

But like the iphone, it's either going to die, or create its own market.

I'm guessing the latter.

.

Also, Steiny, I think you and I both code a lot, and though users complain about Apple's ties to specific hardware, and now controlled software, that's a developer's dream! Too much openness makes it hard to code. I used to dev for linux, but I stopped, partly because it's hard when there's so much looseness. Compare to the number of third party devs for the iPhone ( a bit unfair, because software development is fairly simple on the iPhone). People know what the hardware can do. They know what the software can do. To a developer, that kind of tight control can actually be freeing.

i'd rather go for Verizon's Droid than the ipad right now.

Chazwozel said:

The Wii had a niche and served it well.

Click to expand...

There were those who believed that there was no niche for the Wii to fill. We now know better. The Wii either filled a niche that few saw, or it carved one out. I suspect that either of those outcomes is what apple is hoping for in the iPad.

stienman said:

Do you remember when the iphone first came out?

It was a music and video player with a phone.

That was it. You could barely use it for anything else. The data rate was too slow to be usable for browsing or maps. You couldn't load programs on it. The high end model had some 8GB of space.

While there were other smartphones out there, the iphone didn't even compete with them at ANYTHING.

It literally cracked open its own market.

Now it's only 3 years later, and the iPhone, with all its warts, is THE smartphone to beat. And NO ONE comes even close to giving as good a user experience as it. It wasn't until last year that they finally got me (the higher speed connection, compass, better GPS, and promise of tethering...) but people are going to it in droves.

Android, frankly, pales in comparison. Because Apple very, very tightly controls the hardware, environment (what's running), and even the software that people are allowed to download the job of developing an app is almost trivial compared to developing for the Android where you have to account for 10 different platforms, and the possibility that the user may be running so much stuff in the background that your app can't work flawlessly. The user has to understand and _think_ about their phone instead of simply using it.

I can totally see myself using the ipad all day, every day. Yes, I have two monitors, but I'd love a third display showing a datasheet, book, or just keeping an eye on a wootoff. I'd love to be able to take not just all my music and movies, but books with me wherever I am. The iphone is still lightyears beyond windows mobile and android in terms of browsing the internet, but it still can't compete with a computer. The iPad should be significantly better for browsing. I'd love having it in my car for both music and GPS navigation.

I can see myself leaving my laptop behind on vacation, and using just the ipad.

It is, for all intents and purposes, the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy for $30/month.

That being said, I doubt I'm getting one yet. Apple is seriously holding out in additional features. And I expect that skype and other voip apps will still only work on a wifi network.

But like the iphone, it's either going to die, or create its own market.

I'm guessing the latter.

Click to expand...

Pretty much everything this wicked genius here said.

I can almost expect to see a hospital buying a couple gross of the low-cost Wi-Fi models and then using them:
-At the check-in to take your info, even to tapping a 'paper doll' on the screen to go through the whole "What hurts?" scenario.
-At the bedside to enter and manipulate 'chart' data. They can even be made smart enough to know which room you're in/which bed you're standing next to in order to display the proper data.
-View X-Rays, patient history, whatever is stored in the hospital's database (or whatever it can pull down from Wi-Fi), essentially becoming a portable window into the records system.
-Hell, with the right peripherals, you could just sit one right next to the patient's bed as the monitor, recording data over time and storing it, then having someone come in every 8 hours to change your iPad and load a fresh one on the dock.

Create its own market, indeed!

--Patrick

The iPad: Best invention ever. Period.

EHEHEHEHEH

Oh, there are also a lot of executives that still carry around Franklin Covey planners - this is their brain. I expect the iPad to become the replacement.

Also, this may be the gateway into the ultimate day planner - buy two, and put them inside the planner binder. One with 3G, the other with wifi, and special apps on both that allow them to work together as a 2 page planner.

Hrm. I obviously need to start up my mac and get developing....

---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------

Shadazz said:

The iPad: Best invention ever. Period.

EHEHEHEHEH

Click to expand...

Spot on. It'll catch all your creative juices.

stienman said:

Spot on. It'll catch all your creative juices.

Click to expand...

CLASSY!

Rob King;335026][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

The Wii had a niche and served it well.

Click to expand...

There were those who believed that there was no niche for the Wii to fill. We now know better. The Wii either filled a niche that few saw, or it carved one out. I suspect that either of those outcomes is what apple is hoping for in the iPad.[/QUOTE]

I just meant that the wii was a console with limitless possibilities, its just that no body could figure out what they are- Maybe that is too harsh. When I first saw it, I thought that the wii was going to add a new dimension to gameplay that would make up for its lack of power. Don't get me wrong some games managed to use it quite creatively, but more often than not it wound up as a gimmick, which I suppose you have to expect with things like these.

The ipad doesn't necessarily compare to the wii in this area but certainly seems to have the same zipcode: Its an interesting idea, but is it really necessary? Will people be able to do anything with it? If it doesn't add a new dimension to the use of personal computers will it at least carve out a niche for itself like the wii did?

stienman said:

Oh, there are also a lot of executives that still carry around Franklin Covey planners - this is their brain. I expect the iPad to become the replacement.

Also, this may be the gateway into the ultimate day planner - buy two, and put them inside the planner binder. One with 3G, the other with wifi, and special apps on both that allow them to work together as a 2 page planner.

Hrm. I obviously need to start up my mac and get developing....

---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------

Shadazz said:

The iPad: Best invention ever. Period.

EHEHEHEHEH

Click to expand...

Spot on. It'll catch all your creative juices.

Click to expand...

You sir, are win.

So according to the latest rumors that new A4 chip is actually a low voltage chip with either 2 or 4 cores and a gpu. If that ends up being true, then aside from being dicks, I can't think of any reason not to have multitasking. But maybe that'll be enabled for the revolutionary 2.0 version..

And yeah, this thing will either sink or swim. Given the loyalty of Apple customers I can only assume it'll do well enough. Hell everytime they update their macbooks thousands get replaced that very day and given the low price it's really a minor purchase for hardware enthusiasts/people interested in the tablet idea/fanboys.

This is without any doubt going to succeed. If it were from any other brand, I wouldn't be sure, but c'mon, it's apple.

tegid said:

This is without any doubt going to succeed. If it were from any other brand, I wouldn't be sure, but c'mon, it's apple.

Click to expand...

I agree. worst case scenario it winds up like the apple tv. Not hugely successful, but with a small, extremely loyal fan base.

Seraphyn said:

So according to the latest rumors that new A4 chip is actually a low voltage chip with either 2 or 4 cores and a gpu. If that ends up being true, then aside from being dicks, I can't think of any reason not to have multitasking. But maybe that'll be enabled for the revolutionary 2.0 version..

Click to expand...

It could be they don't want people to experience a performance hit that comes with it.:noidea: I'm not real familiar with the iPhone hardware, but isn't that the same deal?

stienman said:

Oh, there are also a lot of executives that still carry around Franklin Covey planners - this is their brain. I expect the iPad to become the replacement.

Click to expand...

A daily planner app would probably be a huge seller on this.

Seraphyn said:

So according to the latest rumors that new A4 chip is actually a low voltage chip with either 2 or 4 cores and a gpu. If that ends up being true, then aside from being dicks, I can't think of any reason not to have multitasking. But maybe that'll be enabled for the revolutionary 2.0 version...

Click to expand...

I don't believe too much on those multicore rummors for the A4 cpu (although the presence of a GPU is almost certain). It wouldn't be wise to add multicore to such a consumption-sensitive device. Of course, multiple cores aren't a requirement for multitasking.

Then again (please, notice from my previous posts on the thread I am far from being an apple fanboy), there are more reasons for not allowing multitasking than just "being dicks". Multitasking adds considerable uncertainty to an application behaviour as, the instant you allow multiple applications to run in parallel, you can no longer be sure of the resources available to each. "Well, of course" - you may say - "but that's how we've been coding for PC´s since ever". True, but that new generation of iPhone developers know nothing (or don't want to know) of those things, and enjoy their application to be the thing running on the device.

In fact, that's one of the major cultural shocks faced by an iPhone developer who tries to switch to Android (who has full multiask).

Oh yeah, and ditto on whoever mentioned the N900. That's the only portable device I want to own right now.

I reiterate again to the people citing "flocking Apple fanboys": go check out an Apple site. Most Apple "fanboys" are saying the same things that most people in this thread are. Like what niche does this fill, etc.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/

*shrug* I've always been an Apple-critic - the iMac was a laptop, the iPod an MP3 player, the iPhone a smartphone. Good design, easy interface and a big hype, to me, never justified the high prices and the amount of gushing and hype and buzz.
This is a glorified eReader. It's an iPod Touch with a larger screen. It'll be a huge success and it'll be the mediapad to beat in the coming years, simply because it's the Apple thing.
At least the others brought something interesting to their respective markets, though...I haven't found how this beats a blackberry/kindle or netbook/iPhone or half a dozen other combinations yet.

Fade: locked software may be great for developers; it may help make it easier to develop, and as such, I'm not saying it's necessarily evil - but it certainly doesn't make for a better actual device. Otherwise, an Xbox 360 is superior to a computer. Which, to my knowledge, it isn't, for most things.

Bubble181 said:

*shrug* I've always been an Apple-critic - the iMac was a laptop, the iPod an MP3 player, the iPhone a smartphone. Good design, easy interface and a big hype, to me, never justified the high prices and the amount of gushing and hype and buzz.
This is a glorified eReader. It's an iPod Touch with a larger screen. It'll be a huge success and it'll be the mediapad to beat in the coming years, simply because it's the Apple thing.
At least the others brought something interesting to their respective markets, though...I haven't found how this beats a blackberry/kindle or netbook/iPhone or half a dozen other combinations yet.

Fade: locked software may be great for developers; it may help make it easier to develop, and as such, I'm not saying it's necessarily evil - but it certainly doesn't make for a better actual device. Otherwise, an Xbox 360 is superior to a computer. Which, to my knowledge, it isn't, for most things.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's better, just that it surprisingly leads to more third party developers.

Also, I have to call you on the "just because it's Apple" thing. That certainly is not true of the iPod. Apple was waning heavily. For all analysts knew, it was going under. The iPod took off not because it was an MP3 player, but because it was a good MP3 player. It was different. It's extremely functional (and gets right to the point) compared to most of the competitors. In fact, I'd say that's true of a lot of Apple products, and it's been the thing that converts the wary Mac-hater who gives in and tries it. I don't care about Apple. I care about my laptop and my computational server. I could configure something cheaper from parts as a PC (which I've done, many times) but the usability and the practicality won this former hard-core mac-hater over.

I'll admit the iPod didn't yet have the current version Apple storm going for it... It was partially made because of the hype, though. It was good, yes, but I remember the first iPods...They were bigger than most competitors, heavy, and horribly expensive. And the first generation wasn't nearly shock-absorbant enough.

That said - I know Apple products tend to "just work". I understand its appeal, I can see why people would choose it. The "it just works" bit only holds true because there are so many other limitations in place, though, which irks me, personally.
That aside, I'm not a hardcore hater, and I might get an iPhone, if I thought they were worth having, in Belgium.

All I got to say is:

Samsung N110-12PBK 10.1-Inch Black Netbook - 6 Cell Battery (9.5 Hours)

AND



Far better than iPad

Bubble181 said:

I'll admit the iPod didn't yet have the current version Apple storm going for it... It was partially made because of the hype, though. It was good, yes, but I remember the first iPods...They were bigger than most competitors, heavy, and horribly expensive. And the first generation wasn't nearly shock-absorbant enough.

That said - I know Apple products tend to "just work". I understand its appeal, I can see why people would choose it. The "it just works" bit only holds true because there are so many other limitations in place, though, which irks me, personally.
That aside, I'm not a hardcore hater, and I might get an iPhone, if I thought they were worth having, in Belgium.

Click to expand...

There are some limitations on, say, my MacBook or my MacPro, but not many. If anything, the software side is less limiting, since I can run Mac, Windows, and can compile and run POSIX compliant *nix software. I can upgrade the ram, the video (within limits of course, but they're good limits), etc. To me, the just works part is more about the well-thought-out UI and a thin, aluminum clad macbook that doesn't creak and groan with plastic noises when I pick it up, like every Dell or IBM laptop I've had. Yet it still runs quickly. I use it for numerical simulations when I'm away from the desktop. Granted, there's a premium price, and I don't expect everyone would want to pay for it, but I think a computer is more than the sum of its parts.

Bubble181 said:

The "it just works" bit only holds true because there are so many other limitations in place, though, which irks me, personally.

Click to expand...

Not to get to sidestracked but since you are being reasonable and not the typical "omg applefanbois sucking steve jobs off" we get around here I'll ask you the question: What limitations are you talking about? My Mac Pro and Macbook Pro run Windows and OSX and it COULD run Linux if I cared. I can do more with those computers than any normal PC user. I'm a little limited by my video card choices but I've yet to meet a game that my video cards can't handle but I can see that as a fair criticism I suppose. My iPod Touch might have a "locked system" but it has almost a MILLION and a HALF applications in the app store. Sure Apple has to approve them and sure they have done some wonky rejections, but in the end I have more choices then I will ever be able to actually sift through let alone run. My iPod works with iTunes, okay, maybe thats a big deal to some, I really don't give a damn as long as it works well and it does, quite well in fact (granted the PC version is slow as poop, but again, on my mac I can use windows or OSX so I have MORE options!). I can only run one app at a time, and yes, that sucks BUT with my first gen iPod Touch if I ran more than one it would be so damn slow it's not even funny. Once the speeds get high enough expect to see more power and more apps running at once.
I'm not saying there aren't some limitations, clearly there are, but there are always limitations with any software or hardware whether they come from price or compatibility. So in all seriousness (and absolutely no flaming, I totally respect Mr. Bubbles opinion here ) what do you see as the limitations that I as a Mac and iPod user face?

One button mouse.

Sorry, after 4 pages it had to be said.

Shakey said:

One button mouse.

Sorry, after 4 pages it had to be said.

Click to expand...

Well at least it's out of the way.

Bubble181 said:

I haven't found how this beats a blackberry/kindle or netbook/iPhone or half a dozen other combinations yet.

Click to expand...

Well, one might say that it beats those combination by not being a combination. It might not do everything a blackberry/kindle combo would allow you to do, but at least it's only one device. Whether or not the execution is flawless, the attempt is virtuous.

Rob King;335307][QUOTE=Bubble181 said:

I haven't found how this beats a blackberry/kindle or netbook/iPhone or half a dozen other combinations yet.

Click to expand...

Well, one might say that it beats those combination by not being a combination. It might not do everything a blackberry/kindle combo would allow you to do, but at least it's only one device. Whether or not the execution is flawless, the attempt is virtuous.[/QUOTE]

You need an iPhone to go with your iPad. I still think a solid netbook is better.

Mandatory:

I'm a bit late to it, but the 1st-gen iphone comparison isn't really apt. When the iphone launched, they specifically marketed it as a smartphone to people who weren't business/power-users but still wanted internet on the go, had multiple email addresses, and wanted a variety of smartphone-like applications. iPod users who were dissatisfied by their current phones, but weren't convinced by BBerries/HTC, etc.

They knew exactly who they were marketing to. They didn't "create their own market", they already did that, and found a way to jump back into their wallets (Apple has a particular talent for that, in fact). And this was before the app-store juggernaut.

This time, going by the various press releases and investor calls, they genuinely don't seem to know who their market is, and it kind of shows with the way they talk up the product. I haven't seen a single thing telling me, as an iPhone/Macbook user, why I would want something like this. I haven't seen a single thing telling users of other smartphones/e-readers/tablets why they should want this instead.

All I've seen is a bunch of presentations showing how it's a bunch of different things slapped onto a giant iPod Touch. Which may be fine, as a product. All-in-one devices are big business. But they're really not making the case for why any of those bits, put together, make for a larger, enticing whole, and as both a consumer and a marketer, I think that's telling.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------

Those videos have ruined that movie for me...and yet, it is glorious! :laugh:

Let the mockery begin!

Supposedly Apple is now the company setting the low price on a device. :wtf:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...hinking-things-in-wake-of-ipads-low-price.ars

Shakey said:

One button mouse.

Sorry, after 4 pages it had to be said.

Click to expand...

It should've been said on page 1. Within 4 posts. By me. I've failed, Halforums. I've failed Halforums

Thanks for picking up the slack, Shakey.

Espy;335278][QUOTE=Bubble181 said:

The "it just works" bit only holds true because there are so many other limitations in place, though, which irks me, personally.

Click to expand...

Not to get to sidestracked but since you are being reasonable and not the typical "omg applefanbois sucking steve jobs off" we get around here I'll ask you the question: What limitations are you talking about? My Mac Pro and Macbook Pro run Windows and OSX and it COULD run Linux if I cared. I can do more with those computers than any normal PC user. I'm a little limited by my video card choices but I've yet to meet a game that my video cards can't handle but I can see that as a fair criticism I suppose. My iPod Touch might have a "locked system" but it has almost a MILLION and a HALF applications in the app store. Sure Apple has to approve them and sure they have done some wonky rejections, but in the end I have more choices then I will ever be able to actually sift through let alone run. My iPod works with iTunes, okay, maybe thats a big deal to some, I really don't give a damn as long as it works well and it does, quite well in fact (granted the PC version is slow as poop, but again, on my mac I can use windows or OSX so I have MORE options!). I can only run one app at a time, and yes, that sucks BUT with my first gen iPod Touch if I ran more than one it would be so damn slow it's not even funny. Once the speeds get high enough expect to see more power and more apps running at once.
I'm not saying there aren't some limitations, clearly there are, but there are always limitations with any software or hardware whether they come from price or compatibility. So in all seriousness (and absolutely no flaming, I totally respect Mr. Bubbles opinion here ) what do you see as the limitations that I as a Mac and iPod user face?[/QUOTE]

RAWR APPLE SUCKS JOBS IS A...errr, I mean, never mind. Anyway, in large part, you have answered your own question - it's an old rhetoric trick, that, naming some of your opponent's possible points to refute them in advance. :-P
Now, first off: you can, of course, run Windows or Linux on your macs. These days, even legally, so, hurray for that. On the one hand, that's eliminated a lot of what I personally didn't like about Apple. Being able to dual-boot Windows (or Linux) and OSX really does give you an advantage over most regular PCs. However, if you're running it in Windows, it's no better than any other laptop out there - and overpriced for its specs.
To me, some of the limitations would be:
a) pre-judged apps - just look at the XBLA selection compared to some other media to see the difference. The Apple review sometimes takes months, means there're (normally) no free apps, and so on. In return, of course, it guarantees all apps work and there are some standards and such.
b) iTunes may work fine for you, but, well, there are a lot more iPods etc than mac computers out there, so quite a few people are using that slower, badly-coded, horrible piece of software called iTunes for Windows. It may work flawlessly on a mac, I wouldn't know, but the Windows version really is quite terrible. Not being able to use another mp3 manager program is a big problem to me.
c) hardware-wise, you're quite limited. Once again, done to ensure that everything "works", yes, fine, but it also limits choices to what they like. Is there really any sense to the iPad not having a couple of USB ports? The ability to hook up a (foldable, for example) keyboard, or a DVD drive, or a webcam, or for all I care heated typing gloves (yes, they exist, USB-powered heated gloves...I've seen them), would make it much more versatile.
d) As previously said somewhere, the no multi-tasking thing. Once again, design choice to improve on other things, fine, but to me it's a limitation.

Most things I consider limitations are basic design choices to simplify and streamline things, I'm well aware. It's perfectly OK that Apple chooses to offer this; not everyone wants to jump through hoops to get everything running properly. I can really see the benefits of having a Mac for work and surfing, and a console for more serious gaming. I personally prefer to do both on my PC which is set up exactly the way I like it, with the bells and whistles I want, no more and no less, but obviously that's not for everyone.

What does annoy me, though, is how Apple seems to get away with a lot of things Microsoft gets taken to task for. Imagine if Microsoft didn't make software for IBM compatibles, but just for IBMs. All pcs in the world made by the same manufacturer. All hardware only usable under license by Microsoft. All software needs a Microsoft security check and certificate to run. And so forth. They'd be...Well, pretty much Big Brother by now. I know it probably wouldn't have come out the same way and some other "free" platform would've taken the place of Windows, but still - it's basically what Apple does, and because they're smaller and there's still competition out there, people seem to be OK with it.

Rob King;335307][QUOTE=Bubble181 said:

I haven't found how this beats a blackberry/kindle or netbook/iPhone or half a dozen other combinations yet.

Click to expand...

Well, one might say that it beats those combination by not being a combination. It might not do everything a blackberry/kindle combo would allow you to do, but at least it's only one device. Whether or not the execution is flawless, the attempt is virtuous.[/QUOTE]

As said - it doesn't replace those combo's. To be a true all-in-one, it'd need to be
a) a phone
b) an eReader
c) a PDA
d) be able to go on line
e) able to use iPhone apps
f) have a good enough screen to watch movies on
g) an mp3 player
h) a laptop-replacement (okay, not a full-fledged game monster, obviously)
i) a gaming device (iPhone can sort-of-but-not-quite compete with the PSP or DS, but games are cheaper. A bigger version ought to be able to do at least as good or better)
j) a portable DVD/DivX player
k) have the battery power to manage all of that for a full day (Where's that portable nuclear reactor when you need it?)


Anyway, my point is, you'll still need, at the very, very least, a phone to go along with it. If you're still carrying 2 (at least) devices, what makes this one an indispensable part of my combo? For example, the smartphone (as epitomized by the iPhone) pretty much destroyed the PDA as a seperate device. It makes sense to carry an iPhone or Blackberry instead of a phone and a Palm or whatever. Heck, they even eliminate the need for a separate GPS if you wish. I find smartphones too expensive, but I can understand what they're for. The iPad doesn't seem to help bundle things together.


/Wall of Text crits you for 214 damage. Roll will save 24 or become dazed for 1d4 minutes :-P

zero said:

Mandatory:

Click to expand...

Bloons is awesome, even when not compared to the iPad.

TeKeo said:

This time, going by the various press releases and investor calls, they genuinely don't seem to know who their market is, and it kind of shows with the way they talk up the product. I haven't seen a single thing telling me, as an iPhone/Macbook user, why I would want something like this. I haven't seen a single thing telling users of other smartphones/e-readers/tablets why they should want this instead.

Click to expand...

Because it's simple and pretty. Believe it or not, there's many people who buy apple's products mostly for the aesthetics (and because is, apparently, the devil in a suit)

tegid;335621][QUOTE=TeKeo said:

This time, going by the various press releases and investor calls, they genuinely don't seem to know who their market is, and it kind of shows with the way they talk up the product. I haven't seen a single thing telling me, as an iPhone/Macbook user, why I would want something like this. I haven't seen a single thing telling users of other smartphones/e-readers/tablets why they should want this instead.

Click to expand...

Because it's simple and pretty. Believe it or not, there's many people who buy apple's products mostly for the aesthetics (and because is, apparently, the devil in a suit)[/QUOTE]

People say that all the time, but I bet that market is relatively tiny. Even Apple doesn't believe they can sell solely on that basis, otherwise they wouldn't fill their ads with claims of functionality, capability, etc. Apple's whole schtick recently has been "we have this machine that does all this stuff that addresses all these needs AND it's also pretty". Even when they released the Macbook Air, and spent all that money talking about how thin and awesome looking it was, they spent just as much time talking about the benefits for travelers, and business people, and how the laptop remained a high-performance machine.

TeKeo;335732][QUOTE=tegid;335621][QUOTE=TeKeo said:

This time, going by the various press releases and investor calls, they genuinely don't seem to know who their market is, and it kind of shows with the way they talk up the product. I haven't seen a single thing telling me, as an iPhone/Macbook user, why I would want something like this. I haven't seen a single thing telling users of other smartphones/e-readers/tablets why they should want this instead.

Click to expand...

Because it's simple and pretty. Believe it or not, there's many people who buy apple's products mostly for the aesthetics (and because is, apparently, the devil in a suit)[/QUOTE]

People say that all the time, but I bet that market is relatively tiny. Even Apple doesn't believe they can sell solely on that basis, otherwise they wouldn't fill their ads with claims of functionality, capability, etc. Apple's whole schtick recently has been "we have this machine that does all this stuff that addresses all these needs AND it's also pretty". Even when they released the Macbook Air, and spent all that money talking about how thin and awesome looking it was, they spent just as much time talking about the benefits for travelers, and business people, and how the laptop remained a high-performance machine.[/QUOTE]

Removable battery

Shakey said:

Removable battery

Click to expand...

You know, even before I got my Macbook Pro with an 8 hour battery life, I had a Powebook with a 3 hour battery life and I traveled about 2 or 3 weeks out of the month and I almost NEVER had to use my backup battery. It was only on the odd overseas flight that didn't have a plug in that I had to use it. Almost everywhere you go there are plug-ins. I don't really get this complaint unless people are using super crappy batteries in their laptops (which I suppose could be the case with many of the mainstream laptops) in which case... well, you get what you pay for.

The iPad has, I believe a 10 hour battery life which is plenty for almost anyone.

It's super under-whelming. With all the secrecy I would have though it would have been revolutionary. I'm with Chaz on this one. I'd rather have a netbook and a smart phone.

I just got an HP netbook as a gift, and it's great. Totally light and it's a fully functional computer, and probably a 1/5 of the cost of the iPad.

Espy;335743][QUOTE=Shakey said:

Removable battery

Click to expand...

You know, even before I got my Macbook Pro with an 8 hour battery life, I had a Powebook with a 3 hour battery life and I traveled about 2 or 3 weeks out of the month and I almost NEVER had to use my backup battery. It was only on the odd overseas flight that didn't have a plug in that I had to use it. Almost everywhere you go there are plug-ins. I don't really get this complaint unless people are using super crappy batteries in their laptops (which I suppose could be the case with many of the mainstream laptops) in which case... well, you get what you pay for.

The iPad has, I believe a 10 hour battery life which is plenty for almost anyone.[/QUOTE]

It's more about being able to replace it when it no longer holds a charge than having to replace it during a trip. It's a difference of being able to keep your laptop until a new battery arrives, or going without your laptop while Apple finds to time to do it for you.

I'm not anti-Apple, but that's one thing that just bugs me.

Shakey;335752][QUOTE=Espy;335743][QUOTE=Shakey said:

Removable battery

Click to expand...

You know, even before I got my Macbook Pro with an 8 hour battery life, I had a Powebook with a 3 hour battery life and I traveled about 2 or 3 weeks out of the month and I almost NEVER had to use my backup battery. It was only on the odd overseas flight that didn't have a plug in that I had to use it. Almost everywhere you go there are plug-ins. I don't really get this complaint unless people are using super crappy batteries in their laptops (which I suppose could be the case with many of the mainstream laptops) in which case... well, you get what you pay for.

The iPad has, I believe a 10 hour battery life which is plenty for almost anyone.[/QUOTE]

It's more about being able to replace it when it no longer holds a charge than having to replace it during a trip. It's a difference of being able to keep your laptop until a new battery arrives, or going without your laptop while Apple finds to time to do it for you.

I'm not anti-Apple, but that's one thing that just bugs me.[/QUOTE]

I can walk into my local apple store and have them replace the battery on the spot... I just don't see the inconvenience of it, especially if it means they are giving me a highly superior battery.

Espy;335754][QUOTE=Shakey;335752][QUOTE=Espy;335743][QUOTE=Shakey said:

Removable battery

Click to expand...

You know, even before I got my Macbook Pro with an 8 hour battery life, I had a Powebook with a 3 hour battery life and I traveled about 2 or 3 weeks out of the month and I almost NEVER had to use my backup battery. It was only on the odd overseas flight that didn't have a plug in that I had to use it. Almost everywhere you go there are plug-ins. I don't really get this complaint unless people are using super crappy batteries in their laptops (which I suppose could be the case with many of the mainstream laptops) in which case... well, you get what you pay for.

The iPad has, I believe a 10 hour battery life which is plenty for almost anyone.[/QUOTE]

It's more about being able to replace it when it no longer holds a charge than having to replace it during a trip. It's a difference of being able to keep your laptop until a new battery arrives, or going without your laptop while Apple finds to time to do it for you.

I'm not anti-Apple, but that's one thing that just bugs me.[/QUOTE]

I can walk into my local apple store and have them replace the battery on the spot... I just don't see the inconvenience of it, especially if it means they are giving me a highly superior battery.[/QUOTE]

Even with the Air? Everything I've heard is that they need to be sent in to have the battery replaced. You can drop it off at the mac store, but they don't replace it there. If not, well, I'm wrong.

Not sure, I can't see why it would be any different. According to this article http://www.appleinsider.com/article...r_battery_replacements_take_only_minutes.html if you have a battery and a screwdriver it takes about 3 minutes to do.

Shakey;335752][QUOTE=Espy;335743][QUOTE=Shakey said:

Removable battery

Click to expand...

You know, even before I got my Macbook Pro with an 8 hour battery life, I had a Powebook with a 3 hour battery life and I traveled about 2 or 3 weeks out of the month and I almost NEVER had to use my backup battery. It was only on the odd overseas flight that didn't have a plug in that I had to use it. Almost everywhere you go there are plug-ins. I don't really get this complaint unless people are using super crappy batteries in their laptops (which I suppose could be the case with many of the mainstream laptops) in which case... well, you get what you pay for.

The iPad has, I believe a 10 hour battery life which is plenty for almost anyone.[/QUOTE]

It's more about being able to replace it when it no longer holds a charge than having to replace it during a trip. It's a difference of being able to keep your laptop until a new battery arrives, or going without your laptop while Apple finds to time to do it for you.

I'm not anti-Apple, but that's one thing that just bugs me.[/QUOTE]

It's the same argument as why Mac's are not upgradable. By the time that happens most users will be willing and just go ahead and buy the new mac. My iMac was bought in 2006 and is one of the first gen intel macs. Over four years I've upgraded the ram from 512MB to 2GB, upgraded from Tiger to Leopard to Snow Leopard, and have been completely happy with its performance. I'm probably about 2 years away before I can seriously justify the need to purchase a new mac.