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The longer I follow politics and all the arguments around it the more I have come to believe that there is an inverse relationship between being passionate about politics and having any effect on it whatsoever.

I know...crazy right? From what I have seen the more passionate people get about politics the less they care about figuring out what is right than they care about being right. Of course this isn't universally true, but I think looking around this forum it's pretty obvious that it applies to many people. Now, how does this make you ineffectual? First, I want you to assume for a second that people aren't idiots. I know, it's crazy. You are almost entirely sure that most people who disagree with you are mentally deficient. But, you know, go out on a limb here and just pretend people aren't stupid.

Now, since you aren't stupid, put yourself in their shoes. You walk into a store to buy a laptop. You know a bit about laptops, but not a ton, and start talking to a salesman. He steers you over to a laptop that seems ok, has some interesting features, but you're just not sure. You want to hear about how it compares to other laptops. The salesman sneeringly replies 'oh no, all those other laptops are crap, here I'll tell you why.' As time goes on you notice him having an almost dogmatic love of this laptop, and realize that he isn't trying to sell you the laptop that is best for you. He's just trying to sell you the laptop that he thinks is best, and isn't interested in hearing any opinions of why other laptops might be better. In fact, he starts to get angry if you suggest you might buy a different computer.

Would you trust this dude to really help you? Maybe, I mean, he knows his stuff. What if you went to a computer shop next door and the salesman pointed you to a different laptop and maintained the exact same dogmatic attitude? Would you start to question whether or not to trust either of them?

The point is, when people get passionate about politics they get dogmatic, and it's not hard to tell when someone is getting dogmatic. Actually it's incredibly simple. See, politics is complicated. Anyone who thinks they know all the right answers is dogmatic. Period. Because it's complicated enough that only someone who has tricked themselves into believing they know it all can be that single minded. And anyone who has done that....isn't worth listening to.

This matters because elections aren't about galvanizing your base. Sorry, but the base will always vote the way it will. Very little you say can/will stop someone from voting dem if they've done it for the last 20 years. Same goes with changing someone's mind on abortion rights. SURPRISE! Your coathanger rally didn't convert any pro-lifers. So you're fighting for the middle, and the middle isn't stupid. We may be lazy...I'll admit that, but we aren't stupid.

And when you want that middle, coming off as a dogmatic preacher just makes us sigh and walk away. A toaster oven can't be sold with a hard sale. What makes people think that a political viewpoint can? Ironically the fastest way for me to realize that someone's political views are crap is when they don't concede a point.

Anyways. Now I am thinking of Gil from the Simpson's. 'Old Gil's got to make a sale.....'

Having a real discussion on the issues is hard, Necronic. I tried for years and found most people aren't interested in having a substantive discussion on political issues- they are more interested in being 'right'. Eventually I gave up. I certainly wish you luck in your search, though.

I care more about issues than which party is right.

Nah, I mean...there's no search, I've found it. I've had a more significant impact on the political views of others in the last 2 years than in the rest of my life combined. I have fundamentally changed other people's views of politics and the world, something I had never done before. However, I have also had my own views changed more in the last 2 years than in all the years before.

I'm never trying to convince someone of anything when I argue politics anymore. That is an almost guaranteed way to make yourself fail. To really change someone you have to open yourself up as well. I'm not talking active listening or any of that crap, I mean...you really have to open yourself up. You have to risk having someone convince you that your deepest beliefs are wrong. If you really think that you're viewpoints are more correct, then this shouldn't be a problem, it's a matter of pot odds, and if you're wrong...you still win, because you are more right.

I honestly think that the dogmatism people have with politics comes from an insecurity in their own beliefs. Insecurity is a tricky word here though, as the goal is to be loose, to have your ideology flow like water slowly sliding towards a better truth. Dogmatism is about creating a false security around ideas that can never really be secure, and the insecurity dogmatism causes is the rational part of your brain telling you that there are cracks in your bunker. And there will always be cracks. Generally dogma is partitioned into a political group, which allows mortar for us to seal those cracks. The more of us there are, the less wrong we can be right?

I have been proven wrong on many occasion on this board. I am more interested in the issue.

The Lovely Boner said:

I care more about issues than which party is right.

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Heh.

Well, as I usually vote Libertarian, you might have a point.