Poor Kurty-wurty wants comics and he wants them now now now on his iPad instead of buying floppies or trades like any regular comic fan. If you read his entire rant, you see he lumps "fans" as collectors who don't read comics..Kurt said:That Marvel app should allow me to subscribe to my favorite CURRENT title and deliver it to me the day it hits shelves. How about charging me a premium to get it before it hits physical shelves? How about TRYING ANYTHING you luddite assholes! Hey guess what comic book industry? The iPad is not going to be a game changer. No technology is. YOU are the game changer. You have to DO something with the techology that is presented to you. Think. Be innovative. Try something bold. Don’t give me Captain Amaerica from 2004. Even a noble failure would be better than playing it safe at this point. Don’t you think?
So as a "fan" I'm automatically the collector who never reads comic books.. My extensive knowledge of the DCU just happens to be from second hand discussion? lol Kurt, you clever minx!Kurt said:Retailers want it to fail because they want to keep selling physical floppy comics. Diamond wants it to fail because they want to keep being a monopoly for physical floppy comics. Fans want it to fail because for them, comics is about collecting, bagging and boarding, not reading.
Uh, he's 100% correct.So I happened to check the pvp site, cause its funny to see how far he's fallen sometimes. And I see a large "review" of the iPad typed up on his site, I was with him until the great tastemaker himself decided to lump all comic companies (not newspapers or webcomics but comic books) into one large collective luddite asshole gallery as he calls it and proceeds to flame away..
Poor Kurty-wurty wants comics and he wants them now now now on his iPad instead of buying floppies or trades like any regular comic fan. If you read his entire rant, you see he lumps "fans" as collectors who don't read comics..Kurt said:That Marvel app should allow me to subscribe to my favorite CURRENT title and deliver it to me the day it hits shelves. How about charging me a premium to get it before it hits physical shelves? How about TRYING ANYTHING you luddite assholes! Hey guess what comic book industry? The iPad is not going to be a game changer. No technology is. YOU are the game changer. You have to DO something with the techology that is presented to you. Think. Be innovative. Try something bold. Don’t give me Captain Amaerica from 2004. Even a noble failure would be better than playing it safe at this point. Don’t you think?
So as a "fan" I'm automatically the collector who never reads comic books.. My extensive knowledge of the DCU just happens to be from second hand discussion? lol Kurt, you clever minx!Kurt said:Retailers want it to fail because they want to keep selling physical floppy comics. Diamond wants it to fail because they want to keep being a monopoly for physical floppy comics. Fans want it to fail because for them, comics is about collecting, bagging and boarding, not reading.
Honestly is there anything left for the tastemaker to rag on? He already hates newspapers, he hates honest feedback (see forum exodus), now he's going after the very medium that inspired him to become a cartoonist and comic maker? Wow.. how the mighty have truly fallen.
Kurt? who the fuck is that?
He's right. The comic industry is retarded if they don't get on the wagon with this.And that’s why it’ll be so dissapointing when the comic book industry does absolutely NOTHING revolutionary with this device. God damn it. I don’t know why I’m so cynical about this, but everything I read from my industry about devices like the iPad make me want to start punching people in the crotch. Everything I read online points to an entire industry either adamatly denying that the iPad will change things for comics or actively praying it doesn’t. Then there’s the truly astounding group of idiots just sitting there waiting to see if it does anything.
Retailers want it to fail because they want to keep selling physical floppy comics. Diamond wants it to fail because they want to keep being a monopoly for physical floppy comics. Fans want it to fail because for them, comics is about collecting, bagging and boarding, not reading. Creators want it to fail because they’re artists, and they don’t understand new business models or how to make money, nor do they want to worry about it.
What about the big four publishers? I don’t know. I suspect they fear selling digital copies of comics will cut into their existing business. That’s why the Marvel app is pushing Avengers comics from 1998 on me. Guess what I don’t give a shit about? The Avengers from 1998. What’s happening to the Avengers now? And how would it be bad for business to offer me those comics for $1.99 a piece?
That Marvel app should allow me to subscribe to my favorite CURRENT title and deliver it to me the day it hits shelves. How about charging me a premium to get it before it hits physical shelves? How about TRYING ANYTHING you luddite assholes! Hey guess what comic book industry? The iPad is not going to be a game changer. No technology is. YOU are the game changer. You have to DO something with the techology that is presented to you. Think. Be innovative. Try something bold. Don’t give me Captain Amaerica from 2004. Even a noble failure would be better than playing it safe at this point. Don’t you think?
A Netbook Replacement:
I don’t think the iPad could ever replace a laptop, but it sure as hell is better than any netbook I’ve ever sat down with. I’m not really that impressed by netbooks. The keyboards are impossibly small to deal with, I’m not excited about Windows or Linux and the resolution on them usually sucks. So I might as well surf and email on my phone.
The iPad, however is great at surfing the net and reading email and tweeting and chatting on Instant Messenger. I didn’t think an oversized iPod Touch would be but honestly, it’s a really elegant device for that kind of casual computing.
Safari doesn’t feel like a mobile browser at all. Surfing by touch is very intuative and immersive. I actually like it quite a bit. I woke up this morning, sat up in bed and checked my email, twitter and surfed the net for about 20 minutes. I even posted comments on a couple sites and I never felt limited in my experience.
Is the iPad a laptop replacement? No. But a netbook replacement sure. Absolutely. In fact, I think that unless I know I have to make comics on the road, I would leave my laptop at home and just carry the iPad with me on trips. If I’m just surfing and emailing, I don’t need anything else.
Yes and no. I agree the comics industry needs to move forward in ways to promote itself and get readers, putting 100% digital copies of current comics is a BAD idea.. Regular comics are already pirated enough online with scans and torrents of full issues / runs. If they make official online versions for sale, A) it'll drive fans away from the actual reading of regular comics and B) it opens pirating of them even more, which helps A a lot more.Uh, he's 100% correct.
Yes and no. I agree the comics industry needs to move forward in ways to promote itself and get readers, putting 100% digital copies of current comics is a BAD idea.. Regular comics are already pirated enough online with scans and torrents of full issues / runs. If they make official online versions for sale, A) it'll drive fans away from the actual reading of regular comics and B) it opens pirating of them even more, which helps A a lot more.Uh, he's 100% correct.
Yes and no. I agree the comics industry needs to move forward in ways to promote itself and get readers, putting 100% digital copies of current comics is a BAD idea.. Regular comics are already pirated enough online with scans and torrents of full issues / runs. If they make official online versions for sale, A) it'll drive fans away from the actual reading of regular comics and B) it opens pirating of them even more, which helps A a lot more.Uh, he's 100% correct.
Yes, obviously e-readers haven't destroyed the book format. But that doesn't mean given time they can't replace books, as more and more devices are made to render information in an easy way. I just don't think it's a good idea.What? Read what you wrote and ask yourself, havve novels and books vanished since the advent of digital readers like Kindle? The answer is no. As for talking to the staff... my cousin is part-owner of a comic book shop and assholes like you drive him and his partners nuts!
Yes, obviously e-readers haven't destroyed the book format. But that doesn't mean given time they can't replace books, as more and more devices are made to render information in an easy way. I just don't think it's a good idea.What? Read what you wrote and ask yourself, havve novels and books vanished since the advent of digital readers like Kindle? The answer is no. As for talking to the staff... my cousin is part-owner of a comic book shop and assholes like you drive him and his partners nuts!
I tend to agree. I think he's using a fair bit of hyperbole, but he's making some very good points. It is unfair to paint all fans as caring only about collecting, but I really can't sympathize with "fans" who don't want digital versions of current comics.Uh, he's 100% correct.
We will just agree to disagree, I'm not going to be drawn into a bickering contest after you destroyed my last thread. Back to games and media subforums for me.He loves comics and pop culture. He hates drooling, mouthbreathing basement dwellers that come in everyday, stink up the place, never buy anything, and bug him while he's trying to help customers. These people consider themselves 'customers' as well. There's a limit to how much a clerk will tolerate 'hanging out' with the customers before they get in the way and annoying ( but you wouldn't know anything about work, now would ya?) ;-)
We will just agree to disagree, I'm not going to be drawn into a bickering contest after you destroyed my last thread. Back to games and media subforums for me.[/QUOTE]He loves comics and pop culture. He hates drooling, mouthbreathing basement dwellers that come in everyday, stink up the place, never buy anything, and bug him while he's trying to help customers. These people consider themselves 'customers' as well. There's a limit to how much a clerk will tolerate 'hanging out' with the customers before they get in the way and annoying ( but you wouldn't know anything about work, now would ya?) ;-)
Yes, obviously e-readers haven't destroyed the book format. But that doesn't mean given time they can't replace books, as more and more devices are made to render information in an easy way. I just don't think it's a good idea.What? Read what you wrote and ask yourself, havve novels and books vanished since the advent of digital readers like Kindle? The answer is no. As for talking to the staff... my cousin is part-owner of a comic book shop and assholes like you drive him and his partners nuts!
I think the iPad has potential. With advances in the technology, I can see it a pioneer in things like restaurant menus, hospital and hotel room media centers etc...He probably does have that opinion, he just doesn't share it because he wants your business.
And I agree with kurtz, its simply stupid for any serious comics seller to not get into this. Especially when you consider how many people already pirate comics on the interenet. Clearly computers are a perfectly acceptable place to read comics.
Moreover the whole netbook to iPad comparison is made of fail. The iPad is a thing in and of itself. Its not a netbook, its not a tablet PC, and its mostly not an iPhone. I guess the reason people can't figure this out is that its impossible for them to see a new product and not see it as another iteration of an old idea. The iPad isn't like this.
If you do want to make a comparison compare it to tablet PCs. Tablet PCs have never been even remotely succesful. Possibly this is because people would slap a normal OS on it, which doesn't make sense. Maybe the iPad is the appropriate replacement to the failed tablet PC. Honestly what I would like to see is something like the iPad but its designed to wire into your home network and treat your PC as a server. Basically a portable IO device.
k, guess I'm completely off topic now.
Yes, obviously e-readers haven't destroyed the book format. But that doesn't mean given time they can't replace books, as more and more devices are made to render information in an easy way. I just don't think it's a good idea.What? Read what you wrote and ask yourself, havve novels and books vanished since the advent of digital readers like Kindle? The answer is no. As for talking to the staff... my cousin is part-owner of a comic book shop and assholes like you drive him and his partners nuts!
Yes, obviously e-readers haven't destroyed the book format. But that doesn't mean given time they can't replace books, as more and more devices are made to render information in an easy way. I just don't think it's a good idea.What? Read what you wrote and ask yourself, havve novels and books vanished since the advent of digital readers like Kindle? The answer is no. As for talking to the staff... my cousin is part-owner of a comic book shop and assholes like you drive him and his partners nuts!
I bet it does. See, Mav, the thing is, Hobbiests SPEND MONEY.
I don't really try to dump on Mav, he just seems to do it to himself. From his rants about employers requiring MLK day off to unionizing a telemarketing center and now this thread, where discussions about revamping and modernizing the comic industry - to him - are a horrible idea because he doesn't like change. Frankly, I don't know how someone can get so worked up over such a non-issue.Yeah, not to jump on the Mav-pounding dogpile here, but I agree with Scott pretty much entirely (at least up until the netbook thing). With digital distribution as the obvious future and clear path for cost-saving, combined with the print industry and comic industry current troubles, Marvel/DC/etc should be jumping into this with both hands and all 4 feet swinging. There is no better time to experiment with better models, re-capture old customers, and grab new customers, and they're really not putting in any effort right now.
I'm not sold on the iPad yet, but purely as a question of overall functionality. I think the 2nd/3rd-gen versions are going to be really sweet, and that's probably when I might be inclined to get one.
without regard to the rising cost of paper and ink? or is the whole dwindling resources thing a nonissue for you?i don't like the ipad comic model for the same reason i don't like the itunes music model. however, i understand i'm in the minority with this feeling. so long as comics continue to have hard copies printed i don't care what happens in the digital market but when the last floppy or tpb rolls off the line that will be the last dollar i will spend on comics.
I would be more than willing to pay 10-15 for a digital version of a tpb that I could carry around. And as Crone mentions, the rising cost and long-term resources issues are, well, issues.So long as comics continue to have hard copies printed I don't care what happens in the digital market but when the last floppy or tpb rolls off the line that will be the last dollar I will spend on comics.
Because a pad carved from a solid block of aluminum is so environmentally friendly...
But seriously, I've heard, and I'll fully admit I've not done the research to verify this claim, that reading a page on the internet is just as damaging as reading a page printed on a modern press.
that's great, look up methods for refining aluminum ore into something usable.Aluminum is the third most abundant element on Earth. It makes up like 10% of the weight of all the solids on Earth.
a) not me, i was focused on costs due to supply and b) your response to Chazwozel indicates you're not really willing to address the point he raises, but choose to go off in a different direction that doesn't actually touch on your initial assertion that hard copy is better. Gasbandit 2.0 tactics, that. whatever.wait, who brought up the environmental aspect of this discussion? sure wasn't me.
lets run through it shall we?a) not me, i was focused on costs due to supply and b) your response to Chazwozel indicates you're not really willing to address the point he raises, but choose to go off in a different direction that doesn't actually touch on your initial assertion that hard copy is better. Gasbandit 2.0 tactics, that. whatever.
I dont think it will be gone in our lifetime, just quite a bit more expensive. Back on topic though, your chain comment kinda touches on a part of the problem. Mega chains react slower, and creative efforts suffer for it.I only know where my local comic book store is because it recently set up shop and it's part of a chain.
As for books, I will not get a Kindle because of DRM meaning I can get locked out of books, and because I like books as books. I like holding a chunk of dead tree in my hand and turning pages. If the actual book format is ever gone, I hope it's after I'm gone.
I really doubt that is going to be an issue anytime soon, if ever. As I said before, I buy print editions of webcomics. I absolutely love Applegeeks Volumes 1 & 2, and I'm so glad I bought them. I could read every single comic in them online if I wanted to, but print is so much better. I'd love to have every webcomic I love in print form, but I don't have the money.I don't like the ipad comic model for the same reason I don't like the itunes music model. However, I understand I'm in the minority with this feeling. So long as comics continue to have hard copies printed I don't care what happens in the digital market but when the last floppy or tpb rolls off the line that will be the last dollar I will spend on comics.
Suppose that's possible, yeah. I guess it'd end up as some kind of monthly deal, or they wouldn't give you as many comics per trade set as they do now.but that business model means the costs get shifted, not disappeared, right? Higher costs don't go away
I think Trades would have been a smarter way to go for Marvel, than old issues sold slightly less than cover price. I'm a big fan of my local comic book store and think that undercutting retailers would be a huge mistake for Marvel or DC. As a technology lover I see the potential for the iPad with digital comics, but as a comic fan I hate the idea of loosing my local store.I'd rather spend 20-25 bucks for a trade I can browse on my comp (online or a download, whatevs) as opposed to spending 30+ just to get a 6-book collection. I mean, I can't see Marvel/DC/etc ever fully abandoning paper, as even the occasional GIANT LOOK AT ME I'M ONLY 60 BUCKS AND I'M MADE OF SILVER editions of the first 800 issues of X-Men will sell like hotcakes to collectors.
Well, it's a little more complicated than that. At this point, Marvel/DC and the rest won't be reducing their print production because they don't have a current reason to (unsold inventory issues, aside, which is hard to determine since they don't sell directly to the consumer). So production costs of the material stay the same.but that business model means the costs get shifted, not disappeared, right? Higher costs don't go away
I like it too!I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.
AMEN BROTHER BOWIELEE. PREACH IT.If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.
I like it too![/QUOTE]I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.
I like it too![/QUOTE]I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.
I like it too![/QUOTE]I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.
AMEN BROTHER BOWIELEE. PREACH IT.If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.
AMEN BROTHER BOWIELEE. PREACH IT.If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.
So, sell digital subscriptions through local stores with bonuses. Those Green Lantern rings that came with issues of Blackest Night? Don't offer them direct from DC, but only if you buy through a comic shop. Allows for both digital distribution, and for comic shops to get better exposure.A delay would be for the same reason they are delayed to Bookstores, to continue support of the small business that are your local comic retailers.
I actually think that's a bad business model, because it stifles impulse purchases, which is particularly bad for comics.A delay would be for the same reason they are delayed to Bookstores, to continue support of the small business that are your local comic retailers.
This works out well, actually. Most comic stores make a much higher margin on the gimimcks than they do the comics.As much as I like having gimmicks, I solely read comics to read them, not to get a ring or any of the other fancy crap they throw with it at times. That's more for collectors who would still go to comic stores anyway.
You'd think that would be true, but the reduced cost of CDs over cassettes didn't keep music companies from charging the same prices.digital copies are easier to create than physical ones. Costs will adjust accordingly, or that sector will struggle to profit.
That's like, the most insulting version of the No True Scotsman fallacy I've ever seen.Let me rephrase.
Who didn't like my forum union that isn't a douchebag?
You'd think that would be true, but the reduced cost of CDs over cassettes didn't keep music companies from charging the same prices.digital copies are easier to create than physical ones. Costs will adjust accordingly, or that sector will struggle to profit.
That's like, the most insulting version of the No True Scotsman fallacy I've ever seen.[/QUOTE]Let me rephrase.
Who didn't like my forum union that isn't a douchebag?
Butthurt hipster commentates on the butthurt nerd wars. :sneaky:ITT: Butthurt nerd whines about other butthurt nerd
Butthurt hipster commentates on the butthurt nerd wars. :sneaky:[/QUOTE]ITT: Butthurt nerd whines about other butthurt nerd
that seems... broken as a biz model. Also? Welcome to the club. May I recommend having an extra towel when using it in the tub?Downloaded the Marvel app last night. Read three free comics. It's a cool app, and as someone who doesn't buy comics (I get trades from the library), I was almost tempted to continue to one I was reading, but two bucks seems a little steep to me. If the $50 a year subscription gave me access, then I think would be on board, but apparently even with the subscription you pay $2 a book. Seems silly to me.
Wait, so what does the subscription get you?Downloaded the Marvel app last night. Read three free comics. It's a cool app, and as someone who doesn't buy comics (I get trades from the library), I was almost tempted to continue to one I was reading, but two bucks seems a little steep to me. If the $50 a year subscription gave me access, then I think would be on board, but apparently even with the subscription you pay $2 a book. Seems silly to me.
But those 2 hours between when the comic comes out and the pirates buy it, scan it and post it online make all the difference...Why would there need to be a delay? To stop 'pirating' and make sure people still read the paper copies? That would have an adverse affect and people would still be downloading torrents of the (new, up to date) scanned comics.
I'm guessing in about 10 to 15 years plugs for handheld electronics will be obsolete.I've missed this entire argument, due to being away for the last week, so...
...you know what I love?
I don't have to plug in or recharge my comics & books. And their batteries don't run out.
That's good enough for me.
It's just one of those things that is going to be harder for some to transition over to, but eventually when you do it more and more it will become normal, etc. I've played with the iPad and Kindle and I'd be happy reading on either of them, but for comics the iPad will be amazing. If the comic companies get their heads out of their stinkeroos.Honestly, I'd give it less than that. Already, we've got that those pads you plug in and let your handhelds (whatever they are) recharge just by laying on it. Just a matter of moving that even more forward.
Still, my point still stands. I find I can't do much comprehensive digital reading. And it's not the same as holding a book in your hands. Sure, digitall will become more and more common. Heck, I'm already seeing it more and more common among Toronto transiters.