Kurt shits on the comics industry after iPad release?

[LittleSin]

I like the idea of digital distribution. I agree with Scott.

Though I would like to mention that the comic store that I frequent is bright, spacious and has a very friendly staff. I have witnessed loitering nerds that read issues and put them back...but Bob, the ownver, it pretty good about kicking those guys to the curb. There is one chick that take it a bit far though. I picked up a book once, read the back and put it down...she then started to talking loudly to Bob about how he should kick me out because I was reading the books.

Bob looked at me, then at her and said "She's one of my best customers and she buys most everythingshe touches. Keep your voice down."

I love Bob, even though he's a tad...odd.

 

[Andromache]

damn you. just got shark bit with science.


tk: i love my iphone. i dont have a netbook, and my laptop is now the kids bang bang toy (modem removed.) killer app for me is having s little device that has all my iphone apps on it with more screen space and process muscle. plus jesus the sketch app from autodesk is like a mini psd. but dont try to divine your usefulness from mine. as a handy platform device waiting for where ever developers will take the ipad, i love it but that doesn't mean anyone else will. i certainly cant say its more awesome than everything out there but i certainly do find myself using it and liking it the more i use it.

 

[wana10]

Aluminum is the third most abundant element on Earth. It makes up like 10% of the weight of all the solids on Earth.

that's great, look up methods for refining aluminum ore into something usable.

 

[Andromache]

right so basically wana is just trolling for argument. got it moving on...

 

[wana10]

wait, who brought up the environmental aspect of this discussion? sure wasn't me.

 

[Andromache]

wait, who brought up the environmental aspect of this discussion? sure wasn't me.

a) not me, i was focused on costs due to supply and b) your response to Chazwozel indicates you're not really willing to address the point he raises, but choose to go off in a different direction that doesn't actually touch on your initial assertion that hard copy is better. Gasbandit 2.0 tactics, that. whatever.

 

[wana10]

a) not me, i was focused on costs due to supply and b) your response to Chazwozel indicates you're not really willing to address the point he raises, but choose to go off in a different direction that doesn't actually touch on your initial assertion that hard copy is better. Gasbandit 2.0 tactics, that. whatever.

lets run through it shall we?
1) me saying i prefer hard copy
2) you asking if i've considered the ramifications of dwindling resources
3) my throw away comment about aluminum because of apple touting their unibody construction followed by a more serious comment where i ask if hard copies are really more damaging
4) chaz comments on the aluminum part saying aluminum is abundant
5) my statement that methods for refining aluminum is also damaging. is this off mav's original topic? sure. was it a follow up to a path that the conversation had taken? absolutely.

Never once did i say hard copy is better. i said that it was my preference. you want me to focus on my preference for hardcopy? sure, did that too. gave an example of the louvre which hasn't been commented on.

edit* i focused on the dwindling resource portion of your initial response instead of the cost of supplies.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I only know where my local comic book store is because it recently set up shop and it's part of a chain.

As for books, I will not get a Kindle because of DRM meaning I can get locked out of books, and because I like books as books. I like holding a chunk of dead tree in my hand and turning pages. If the actual book format is ever gone, I hope it's after I'm gone.

 

[Andromache]

I only know where my local comic book store is because it recently set up shop and it's part of a chain.

As for books, I will not get a Kindle because of DRM meaning I can get locked out of books, and because I like books as books. I like holding a chunk of dead tree in my hand and turning pages. If the actual book format is ever gone, I hope it's after I'm gone.

I dont think it will be gone in our lifetime, just quite a bit more expensive. Back on topic though, your chain comment kinda touches on a part of the problem. Mega chains react slower, and creative efforts suffer for it.

 

[figmentPez]

I don't like the ipad comic model for the same reason I don't like the itunes music model. However, I understand I'm in the minority with this feeling. So long as comics continue to have hard copies printed I don't care what happens in the digital market but when the last floppy or tpb rolls off the line that will be the last dollar I will spend on comics.

I really doubt that is going to be an issue anytime soon, if ever. As I said before, I buy print editions of webcomics. I absolutely love Applegeeks Volumes 1 & 2, and I'm so glad I bought them. I could read every single comic in them online if I wanted to, but print is so much better. I'd love to have every webcomic I love in print form, but I don't have the money.

If digital versions of comics cost as much as print, count me out. I'll come onboard with digital comics when they cost less than the print version, because they're worth less to me in digital form (especially if they have DRM and I'm just renting them).

 

[Andromache]

thats the money question. If digital comics add more value than analogue ( and i think the tech is there for creators) who wouldn't go that route?

 

[CynicismKills]

I'd rather spend 20-25 bucks for a trade I can browse on my comp (online or a download, whatevs) as opposed to spending 30+ just to get a 6-book collection. I mean, I can't see Marvel/DC/etc ever fully abandoning paper, as even the occasional GIANT LOOK AT ME I'M ONLY 60 BUCKS AND I'M MADE OF SILVER editions of the first 800 issues of X-Men will sell like hotcakes to collectors.

 

[Andromache]

but that business model means the costs get shifted, not disappeared, right? Higher costs don't go away

 

[CynicismKills]

but that business model means the costs get shifted, not disappeared, right? Higher costs don't go away

Suppose that's possible, yeah. I guess it'd end up as some kind of monthly deal, or they wouldn't give you as many comics per trade set as they do now.

 

[Andromache]

digital copies are easier to create than physical ones. Costs will adjust accordingly, or that sector will struggle to profit.

 

[Covar]

I'd rather spend 20-25 bucks for a trade I can browse on my comp (online or a download, whatevs) as opposed to spending 30+ just to get a 6-book collection. I mean, I can't see Marvel/DC/etc ever fully abandoning paper, as even the occasional GIANT LOOK AT ME I'M ONLY 60 BUCKS AND I'M MADE OF SILVER editions of the first 800 issues of X-Men will sell like hotcakes to collectors.

I think Trades would have been a smarter way to go for Marvel, than old issues sold slightly less than cover price. I'm a big fan of my local comic book store and think that undercutting retailers would be a huge mistake for Marvel or DC. As a technology lover I see the potential for the iPad with digital comics, but as a comic fan I hate the idea of loosing my local store.

As far as Kurtz's statement, he's so biased towards his business model He's hardly one to tell people how it should be done. If he had his way there would be no print media at all. He can make plenty of money, so obviously everyone else can.

 

[SpecialKO]

but that business model means the costs get shifted, not disappeared, right? Higher costs don't go away

Well, it's a little more complicated than that. At this point, Marvel/DC and the rest won't be reducing their print production because they don't have a current reason to (unsold inventory issues, aside, which is hard to determine since they don't sell directly to the consumer). So production costs of the material stay the same.

For digital sales, no additional materials are necessary. There's no further cost associated with producing a physical comic, just a labour cost for creating the digital file. So instead of spending $1 to produce an issue and charging $2.00 to a retailer to stock it, they're spending $0.10 in labor per issue or less and selling it for $2.50 directly to a consumer who is used to spending $3 per issue.

So it's more that they're generating additional sales revenue from the same already-produced material, so their overall cost of goods sold per inventory sold goes down significantly, and profit rises accordingly.

They won't actually reduce production costs via the development of a digital model until they begin reducing their print production inventory in response to consumer preference for digital media.

So we're still a long way from a definitive digital model. Which is why they have enormous freedom right now to experiment, hence why they should be experimenting.

 

[Necronic]

Just to bring it back to a somewhat inflamatory point, Paper is a completely renewable resource. The iPhone, and all the things that go into making it (alumninum being the most unimportant) is composed of a LOT of non-renewable resources, most importantly Indium Tin Oxide. Indium is sourced almost entirely from China and Canada, and the estimates of actual global supplies are at best questionable. The really scary thing is that its consumption rate is shooting through the friggin roof these days, as it is essentially the only material capable of making low cost touch screens. And if anyone brings up light scattering touch screens like those found in Microsoft Surface, well....please DIAF.

 

[kaykordeath]

Currently, I buy floppies week to week because I like the episodic telling of the story. Unfolding piece by piece. I also like to be a member of an online community that can discuss the story as it unfolds. As such, I spend more money than I would if I waited for the trades.

As such, I would love to subscribe to a digital book at a lower price point, as I'd still have the same exact story experience. I would also be many many times more likely to buy the trades to satisfy any "collectors" urges I might have, in effect, buying the same material twice. So count me in the "publishers are missing the boat" camp.

 

[checkeredhat]

I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.

But on the topic of the OP; while they definitely should be releasing the current comics in that format, I disagree entirely that they shouldn't be giving us old comics in a digital format as well. I think that's actually a brilliant idea that is bound to entice new readers, and probably even old readers who long ago sold their comics.

I feel like even though nerds are inarguably taking over mainstream media now FINALLY, there is still something that is seen socially as being immature about reading a comic book. I think that digital distribution would lend it a bit of class, and perhaps more importantly, a bit of personal confidentiality. Nobody needs to know that you're reading about the wonderful dual life of Tony Stark, Mr. first class flying CEO. You're just reading the news, right?

 

[Bowielee]

If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.

 

[Null]

The digital vs print issue is something I actually know a little about, or at least have a personal perspective on. To wit, 2/3 of the books we sell are PDFs, not print copies. This is good for us in a lot of ways - we don't have to order a large print run, which has a lot of up front costs. Many online gaming sites can "stock" our material readily in PDF form - DriveThruRPG is a good example. The PDF is usually 55-60% of the dead tree version in terms of price. Without digital distribution, we wouldn't be doing well at all. And that's besides all of our products that are PDF only. We're doing a few Print on Demand, but honestly, most of 4WFG's sales are digital, not print. So we have a very good perspective on what this business model can do for us.

 

[Necronic]

I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.

I like it too!

 

[Espy]

If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.

AMEN BROTHER BOWIELEE. PREACH IT.

I spend ZERO right now on comics... if they were digital my wife would be hiding my credit cards.

 

[Chazwozel]

I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.

I like it too![/QUOTE]


Who didn't like my forum union??!? Who I ask you, who?

 

[Gusto]

I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.

I like it too![/QUOTE]


Who didn't like my forum union??!? Who I ask you, who?[/QUOTE]

BlackCat, for one.

 

[Chazwozel]

I stopped reading because I don't particularly enjoy arguments between Chaz and Mav. Its really ONLY entertainging for Chaz.

I like it too![/QUOTE]






Who didn't like my forum union??!? Who I ask you, who?[/QUOTE]

BlackCat, for one.[/QUOTE]

Let me rephrase.

Who didn't like my forum union that isn't a douchebag?

 

[Covar]

If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.

AMEN BROTHER BOWIELEE. PREACH IT.

I spend ZERO right now on comics... if they were digital my wife would be hiding my credit cards.[/QUOTE]

I'm interested in hearing you, Ame and Bowielee's opinion on this; Would you purchase them if comics were delayed digtally a few months like they are with bookstores?

 

[Covar]

If they offered digital versions of current books, they'd be making a hell of a lot more money off of me than they currently are, which is zero.

AMEN BROTHER BOWIELEE. PREACH IT.

I spend ZERO right now on comics... if they were digital my wife would be hiding my credit cards.[/QUOTE]

I'm interested in hearing you, Ame and Bowielee's opinion on this; Would you purchase them if comics were delayed digtally a few months like they are with bookstores?[/QUOTE]

Why would there need to be a delay? To stop 'pirating' and make sure people still read the paper copies? That would have an adverse affect and people would still be downloading torrents of the (new, up to date) scanned comics.

Why would a delay be deemed necessary to make this feasible?

Thinking more on this.. offer both? Discount in subscription price for the bigger delay you have.. read new comics for full price, 4 weeks old for 20% less, and so on ? (up to a point).[/QUOTE]

A delay would be for the same reason they are delayed to Bookstores, to continue support of the small business that are your local comic retailers.

 

[figmentPez]

A delay would be for the same reason they are delayed to Bookstores, to continue support of the small business that are your local comic retailers.

So, sell digital subscriptions through local stores with bonuses. Those Green Lantern rings that came with issues of Blackest Night? Don't offer them direct from DC, but only if you buy through a comic shop. Allows for both digital distribution, and for comic shops to get better exposure.

 

[SpecialKO]

A delay would be for the same reason they are delayed to Bookstores, to continue support of the small business that are your local comic retailers.

I actually think that's a bad business model, because it stifles impulse purchases, which is particularly bad for comics.

I would like to see a model where you can buy individual issues digitally direct from the publisher, but local comic stores are able to "bundle" a subscription or customer loyalty licensing key for comic downloads for customers who buy through their store. As was mentioned above, different comic stores have different customer profiles. A store which does big business selling shtuff volume discounts on the number of comics downloaded for people who buy more than $50/month on other paraphernalia, for example.

Customers get their comics and support their local store, the local store gets a solid toehold into the digital download market, and the big publishers are able to sell subscriptions in volume through the stores and create a relationship making it easy to do custom in-store promotions for digital downloaders to boost sales.

EDIT: Doh! ninja'ed

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------

As much as I like having gimmicks, I solely read comics to read them, not to get a ring or any of the other fancy crap they throw with it at times. That's more for collectors who would still go to comic stores anyway.

This works out well, actually. Most comic stores make a much higher margin on the gimimcks than they do the comics.

 

[Totally Not Soliloquy]

digital copies are easier to create than physical ones. Costs will adjust accordingly, or that sector will struggle to profit.

You'd think that would be true, but the reduced cost of CDs over cassettes didn't keep music companies from charging the same prices.

Granted, the change from two different physical mediums is much different than the change to a digital medium, so you may be right.

Let me rephrase.

Who didn't like my forum union that isn't a douchebag?

That's like, the most insulting version of the No True Scotsman fallacy I've ever seen.

 

[Chazwozel]

digital copies are easier to create than physical ones. Costs will adjust accordingly, or that sector will struggle to profit.

You'd think that would be true, but the reduced cost of CDs over cassettes didn't keep music companies from charging the same prices.

Granted, the change from two different physical mediums is much different than the change to a digital medium, so you may be right.

Let me rephrase.

Who didn't like my forum union that isn't a douchebag?

That's like, the most insulting version of the No True Scotsman fallacy I've ever seen.[/QUOTE]

No true formite would dare dispute it!

 

[Andromache]

No true formite would dare dispute it!

 

[drawn_inward]

ITT: Butthurt nerd whines about other butthurt nerd

Butthurt hipster commentates on the butthurt nerd wars. :sneaky: