Lion (OS 10.7) thread

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Apple is holding a "special event" on the 20th, and all we know is that the invitation has a lion on it, strongly suggesting the next OS X will be lion. Let the speculation begin.

Rumors hold it that Apple held off on using the king of cats until the end of OS X's life cycle. And from Apple's own mouth, it's something "big". Elsewhere, Apple has purchased a very expensive server complex (which could be for anything from iTunes/App store to whatever) prompting rumors of more cloud-based services. I'm hoping for something spectacular. Leopard's getting long in the tooth, even with the Snow Leopard upgrade. Most of the point releases (which are really full version releases, mr. windows fanboi--they just wanted to keep the X branding) have had something spectacular to offer. Esp. panther to tiger. That was awesome.

Anyway... Rumors? Confirmed info? Speculation? Put it here.

 

[Espy]

This is me, super excited.

 

[MindDetective]

I'm new to a Mac. What do the major OS upgrades usually cost?

 

[SpecialKO]

Last one cost $30, $10 if you had just bought a mac.

 

[figmentPez]

Last one cost $30, $10 if you had just bought a mac.

That was only if you were upgrading from 10.5 Leopard, though (at least according to the EULA, it wasn't enforced by the software). Upgrades from older versions of Mac OS were a higher price ($130, if memory serves). If 10.7 is a major release it's not going to be $30.

 

[fade]

Yeah, it's usually $129, and they've made a big deal about how stable the price is in the past.

 

[MindDetective]

Hmm...a bit steep for me at the moment. I'll be a late adopter, I think.

 

[Espy]

Well, it can be a chunk of change but for a full OS it's pretty damn affordable. They could rape us with 8 different versions if they felt like it that cost 399 dollars.

 

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One rumor is that the whole OS is going "app". I sure hope not. I think it would drive off a lot of mac users.

 

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Today's coverage from Gizmodo.

How Mac OS X Lion Brings the Best of iPad to Your Mac

Also, re my previous comment, which turns out to be true. I re-thought it, and some commenters had a point. This is no different from the way Linux works. Instead of calling it an "app store", linux distros use package managers like apt-get and rpm, which are maintained by and authoritative source. And the same power-users complaining about the app model have no problem with that.

 

[SpecialKO]

That's pretty cute, though I wonder about how easy it will be to actually use multi-window apps (I don't trust OS tech demos that don't include a substantial hands-on portion).

Also, concerned about Apple closing the Mac platform up even more via the Mac Appstore. How exactly is this going to work? Will it be like the iPhone/Pad where only software from the app store will work, or will it be more like the Android platform where the store and the developer tools will be separate?

 

[strawman]

That's pretty cute, though I wonder about how easy it will be to actually use multi-window apps (I don't trust OS tech demos that don't include a substantial hands-on portion).

Also, concerned about Apple closing the Mac platform up even more via the Mac Appstore. How exactly is this going to work? Will it be like the iPhone/Pad where only software from the app store will work, or will it be more like the Android platform where the store and the developer tools will be separate?

Pretty sure it means that only software developed to Apple's guidelines will be allowed, and that apps will be tested just as iOS apps are now tested. They are going to build a closed system, and it will be an up-front, major feature of the OS so new users will automatically go towards it (especially since it's a unified buying experience with consistent reviews and feedback) and chances are good it'll cause the competition to increase, which will drop prices.

In other words, Apple wins big (they suddenly get a 30% cut of software they previously got nothing for), users win big (reviews, safety knowing the software was tested by apple, lower costs, and a lot more "free with advertising" apps), and most developers lose (some will win big, but it will likely be a system that has few big winners with most developers doing poorly).

But.

Apple has NEVER catered to developers. They have ALWAYS made the customer the #1 priority.

So, meet the new apple, same as the old apple.

 

[SpecialKO]

Hmmm, good points, Puffster.

I wonder if this means that Steam for Mac will go bye-bye. Apple already re-sells Mac Office, Final Cut, CS5, etc., so I imagine that programs like that will have different financial arrangements behind them (Apple is not going to have much luck bullying Adobe/M$/etc. into giving them a much larger cut) along the lines of traditional distributor contracts.

 

[strawman]

Apple already negotiates with the larger music labels - they each get custom rates in itunes. I imagine the larger software companies will get better than 70% in the mac app store, and there are many incentives for them to use it.

One nice thing steve mentioned that isn't getting a lot of attention is that once you buy a mac app, it's available on all the mac computers you apply your account to (for iOS devices it's up to 5 I think) so it will help consumers that have multiple macs - no need to buy that program 3 times just so the kids can use it occasionally without using the parent's computer.

 

[SpecialKO]

I imagine the larger software companies will get better than 70% in the mac app store, and there are many incentives for them to use it.

Sure, but Steam is a delivery platform for multiple different publishers. Publishers may find it far more useful to negotiate rates with Apple directly, and drop out of the mac side of Steam, which would be a shame. I didn't look at every video, did they talk about what will happen to programs already installed if you upgrade to Lion?

One nice thing steve mentioned that isn't getting a lot of attention is that once you buy a mac app, it's available on all the mac computers you apply your account to (for iOS devices it's up to 5 I think) so it will help consumers that have multiple macs - no need to buy that program 3 times just so the kids can use it occasionally without using the parent's computer.

That is very cool. Will it apply to programs which have a limited number of licenses?

 

[strawman]

I imagine the larger software companies will get better than 70% in the mac app store, and there are many incentives for them to use it.

Sure, but Steam is a delivery platform for multiple different publishers. Publishers may find it far more useful to negotiate rates with Apple directly, and drop out of the mac side of Steam, which would be a shame. I didn't look at every video, did they talk about what will happen to programs already installed if you upgrade to Lion?

My experience with Steam is that most of the games are also available through other distributors. My expectation is that most game developers will have games in every venue they believe they can make a profit from. I expect that Apple will eventually have the iphone game center on the mac to replace many of steams other functions, so ultimately steam may lose out.

Nothing happens to you existing programs. Your mac continues to operate as before, and you are welcome to install programs directly from publishers, etc. All this does is add an app dashboard and a way to install apps from the app store. It's all in addition to everything you can already do with the mac.

One nice thing steve mentioned that isn't getting a lot of attention is that once you buy a mac app, it's available on all the mac computers you apply your account to (for iOS devices it's up to 5 I think) so it will help consumers that have multiple macs - no need to buy that program 3 times just so the kids can use it occasionally without using the parent's computer.

That is very cool. Will it apply to programs which have a limited number of licenses?

Since the apps will be limited to an account (your apple ID) then I don't think publishers will worry too much about it, since they are then selling a user license, rather than a machine license, and most developers already permit users to load a few copies for their own personal use (notably most allow one install on a desktop, and one install on a laptop), so it's not a big change.

We'll have to wait and see if it becomes a problem though. I imagine some publishers will push back against it, but again - they aren't blocked from developing and selling through normal channels. I hope Apple just says, "tough cookies" so that every app in the store follows the same distribution rules and rights. I'd be annoyed if confusing mechanisms were added to limit how many macs I could use a given app on.

 

[Sara_2814]

My experience with Steam is that most of the games are also available through other distributors.

I can get some casual games available on Steam cheaper from Big Fish Games or MacGamestore and I do, unless the Steam version offers something extra (like achievements). Steve said that the App Store won't be the only distribution point, but it will provide "a better experience" to end-users (auto-installs, auto-upgrades, etc.), which Steam already offers. If Apple's App Store starts offering social tools and achievements, then Steam will just have to one-up them with something new (and the end-user can make the choice). Steam also has the advantage of multi-player with Windows users, which I don't see Apple adding anytime soon. I really don't see Steam worrying too much about the App Store, anymore than they worry about Big Fish or GameTree or Amazon.

I see the App Store as an evolution of Apple Downloads -- rather than just getting demos, now you can actually buy the apps. While I and other geeks have no trouble digging through Google looking for software, the casual computer user is probably going to appreciate having Mac apps all in one place, just like with their iPhone.

In Lion, I'm looking forward to the Launchpad, since I already "hack" that with a folder in my dock. I have way too many apps... :lol:

I'm also getting used to gestures from using the iPad, so it will be interesting to see how that translates to the desktop. If it works well, I hope developers start using it, because I would love to have gesture/multi-touch capability in manipulating objects in 3D modelers!

I am really jazzed about the new iMovie. It's making me want to use my video camera more. I'm glad the sound editing is improving (which is what iMovie really lacked). And the Movie Trailer feature looks like a lot of fun.

 

[figmentPez]

My experience with Steam is that most of the games are also available through other distributors. My expectation is that most game developers will have games in every venue they believe they can make a profit from. I expect that Apple will eventually have the iphone game center on the mac to replace many of steams other functions, so ultimately steam may lose out.

For a long time Apple didn't care at all about gaming on the Mac, and Valve didn't develop for the Mac because of that. I can only assume that the success of gaming on the iPhone has changed Apple's outlook on gaming, because Steam wouldn't be on Mac if Apple hadn't worked with Valve on it, and given some kind of support in developing better video drivers. Hopefully Apple realizes that Valve is as valuable to them as they are to Valve, because if Apple kills off Steam on the Mac, they're the ones who will be loosing out.

Here's what I see that Steam brings to the party that Apple's app store can't/won't.
1. SteamPlay - getting games on both the PC and the Mac may help with converting more PC users to Mac. "Hey, I've already got most of my games on Mac."
2. Valve's games are only on Steam and other games are starting to require Steam as well (as Civilization 5 does, and it seems like likely it will on the Mac as well)
3. An established gaming community (30 million active accounts, with as many as 6 million unique users in a day) who have friends lists and achievements and whatnot. Steam's userbase is also growing at a tremendous rate.

 

[MindDetective]

Hey, Appleheads. Does anyone here use DEVONThink for data organization? I'm considering it at the moment...

 

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I tried the trial. It seemed neat, but it also didn't really seem to do much beyond what the OS X shell already does. It's almost like a mini os x on top of os x in a way. I mean, I can already organize data into folders, apply metadata, search really quickly thanks to Spotlight, and create links that use zero disk space. I know that's an oversimplification, but it didn't seem to offer all that much, even though I went into it highly excited about the idea.

 

[MindDetective]

Yeah, I'm trying the trial out right now. I keep most of my scientific downloads in Mendeley (do you use it, Fade?) and so far I am not seeing much worth the price of the full version.