[Movies] MCU: Phase 3 And Beyond

Tiger Tsang

Tiger Tsang

Just from some of the things I've read, they're going to do a bunch of stories that in the end tie together as a series, unlike the classical 'What If?' books. I'd really prefer the latter. It would just really offer a lot more storytelling.
Conan getting transported to the present day was a fun read. Bewildered by all the *to him* chaos, he mugs a guy, keeps the change and throws away the paper money in the opening panels
Conan and Logan getting swapped was another. Wolverine and Red Sonja riding off *as I remember, and that's been a long while* was nice.

So many opportunities to do some short story arcs . . . and in the end, from what I've read, they're not going to do that.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

The trailer seemed heavily to imply Doctor Strange getting sucked into the Multiverse, as he seemed to appear in all of them, even the Captain Carter reality. My guess is The Watcher is trying to prevent some catastrophe that all these realities are leading towards, but since he can't interfere himself, he opens a portal and brings in Doctor Strange to help him do it instead. Honestly, I think it will even heavily lead into the next Doctor Strange movie.
 
Tiger Tsang

Tiger Tsang

I'll need to re-watch it, but Black Widow was, to me, floating around the Thor 2 and questionable Iron Man movies. Which actually, sucks, as I love the cast.
 
Sparhawk

Sparhawk

Tiger Tsang said:
I'll need to re-watch it, but Black Widow was, to me, floating around the Thor 2 and questionable Iron Man movies. Which actually, sucks, as I love the cast.
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Please, be aware that I’m just asking. Your opinion is just that, and I’m not trying to bash or put it down in any way.

I’ve seen several people with this reaction, and almost all of them seemed to be expecting something more in the movie. What were you expecting from Black Widow?

My take is that it’s a “prequel” to where we know how the character ended, just like the Star Wars prequels, in that we know how it all ended for said character, and the movie/movies are just giving us a little more detail to the character. There isn’t going to be some huge surprise growth or twist, we already know what comes after. As an example, the first time we meet little Anni Skywalker we know that he’s going to end up a Sith and encased in a black suit until the end of his life in RotJ, not really any chance to have a twist that he spends 50 years of his life herding wampas on Hoth. So I’m just curious, what did you expect from BW?
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

I actually quite liked Black Widow, my only complaint is I stopped caring about 20 minutes until the end. Maybe I'm just immune to the big bombastic action scenes these movies have to end with, but while the climax action was really cool with some neat stunts and some amazing set pieces, none of it was suspenseful because I knew exactly what was going to happen. I could have turned it off right at the beginning of the climax and not having missed anything.


edit: though one kinda big plothole that kept bothering me. Natasha is one of the most famous people on the planet by this point. And now she's an international fugitive. And yet she walks around the whole movie 'in hiding' without so much as a disguise and never gets recognized by anyone?
 
Gryfter

Gryfter

On BW, I agree with the bombastic ending being sort of ho hum. The story would have worked just as well if they were blowing up just about any secret military installation. The location was a means to an end and this isn't the first Marvel movie to suffer from an over reliance on a big one-on-one fight scene to wrap everything up. But I actually found the over-all story and introduction of new characters to be an enjoyable ride.

Look, expectations for this one were high and it's had a long time to stew in those expectations given it was supposed to come out over a year ago, so you should temper those. Knowing all that, I would watch BW 10 times over before I would watch WW84 or Birds of Prey again so.....
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

Ravenpoe said:
edit: though one kinda big plothole that kept bothering me. Natasha is one of the most famous people on the planet by this point. And now she's an international fugitive. And yet she walks around the whole movie 'in hiding' without so much as a disguise and never gets recognized by anyone?
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This doesn't concern me so much. I don't know who these guys are:
1626020487104.png
1626020531269.png


But they're in the FBI top 10 wanted fugitives. Most wanted fugitives don't get the TV airtime that Bin Laden got...the average person's probably not going to recognize them on the street.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Tinwhistler said:
This doesn't concern me so much. I don't know who these guys are:
View attachment 38315 View attachment 38316

But they're in the FBI top 10 wanted fugitives. Most wanted fugitives don't get the TV airtime that Bin Laden got...the average person's probably not going to recognize them on the street.
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It's not that she's a fugitive, she's AN AVENGER. Her identity and face are publicly known. You might not know who those guys are, but you know what Bill Cosby did, because he's a celebrity.
 
Gryfter

Gryfter

Okay, but by the logic of comic books, she wasn't in her costume at that point so would not have been recognizable as an Avenger. Just some hot redhead riding a motorcycle with a blonde as her Betty.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Really shouldn't try overthinking it. There have been countless points in the movies where people really should have noticed the Avengers or someone important, but don't. They are not going to write the movie around their celebrity unless it's important to their plot, like Tony Stark. Even then he suddenly becomes a nobody when it's required for the plot, like in Iron Man 3 as he wanders around a small rural town where no one recognizes him outside of a single kid and a fan boy news van engineer.

Remember Thor Ragnarok? Thor and Loki stand in the middle of a busy New York intersection and like only two girls even notice him and ask for a quick selfie. They don't even notice at all that two feet away, without any coverings, is LOKI, the guy that literally lead an alien invasion in that ravaged the city years prior. Don't even get me started on Captain America TWS or even Endgame, where the Hulk is having lunch in a busy diner and only a few kids seem to notice him for autographs. If this was real life, they would be absolutely swarmed, but they ain't, because that wouldn't really help the story move forward.
 
Sparhawk

Sparhawk

ScytheRexx said:
Really shouldn't try overthinking it. There have been countless points in the movies where people really should have noticed the Avengers or someone important, but don't. They are not going to write the movie around their celebrity unless it's important to their plot, like Tony Stark. Even then he suddenly becomes a nobody when it's required for the plot, like in Iron Man 3 as he wanders around a small rural town where no one recognizes him outside of a single kid and a fan boy news van engineer.

Remember Thor Ragnarok? Thor and Loki stand in the middle of a busy New York intersection and like only two girls even notice him and ask for a quick selfie. They don't even notice at all that two feet away, without any coverings, is LOKI, the guy that literally lead an alien invasion in that ravaged the city years prior. Don't even get me started on Captain America TWS or even Endgame, where the Hulk is having lunch in a busy diner and only a few kids seem to notice him for autographs. If this was real life, they would be absolutely swarmed, but they ain't, because that wouldn't really help the story move forward.
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I understand what you’re saying, and agree with it in part. I’ve been in restaurants with celebrities (George Foreman in Houston and Deion Sanders in Plano) that they weren’t swarmed because they were a normal part of being there. GF was part owner of the place I saw him, and Deion had breakfast with his family there each week. I said hi to each, but there wasn’t anyone pestering them because they were just being treated as normal folks. That’s the same way that I feel that Bruce was being treated by the others in the place he was.
 
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Tiger Tsang

Tiger Tsang

Sparhawk said:
I understand what you’re saying, and agree with it in part. I’ve been in restaurants with celebrities (George Foreman in Houston and Deion Sanders in Plano) that they weren’t swarmed because they were a normal part of being there. GF was part owner of the place I saw him, and Deion had breakfast with his family there each week. I said hi to each, but there wasn’t anyone pestering them because they were just being treated as normal folks. That’s the same way that I feel that Bruce was being treated by the others in the place he was.
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That, and he'd probably been Professor Hulk for quite some time.
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

I've been skimming people's post about Black Widow because I didn't want to be spoiled, and maybe because the reviews around here have been mixed I went in with lowered expectations, but I enjoyed it a lot more than a thought I would. To me, it felt a lot more like the Marvel Phase 1 movies, where they'd cater the style to movie to the character's background, moreso than the more recent films which they've used the "Marvel formula". Now, having said that, it brings me to my two biggest issues with the film:

1) this movie really should have been plotted and released long before Infinity War to have more of an impact. And 2), they really should have cut Red Guardian. The first third?-Half?- felt like a Jason Bourne* movie to me, and that was great! But once they added Red Guardian, he just felt too silly and too over-the-top to fit in with the rest of the film. When they got to the Red Room, it felt like they were trying to steer it back to "spy thriller", but the tone of the movie became too muddled. I think the movie, and the ending, would have been much more emotionally impacting if they focused on the bond between just Natasha, Yelena, and Melina, and how the Widow program effected them, and the rest of the Widows. I don't even think it's David Harbour's fault. To me, Red Guardian's role reeks of a room full of male execs who barely had faith in a women-lead hero movie, and insisted that they needed a guy for "comic relief" because Yelena's sassy attitude wouldn't bring enough levity. Personally, I thought she was funny enough.


*Mr. Z watched the Bourne movies and I was just usually in the room, so I wasn't paying that close attention. If anyone's going to nit-pick the comparison, don't waste the post, because it's going to fall on deaf ears. I don't care enough. From what I SAW, it felt very Bourne-esque to me.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Celt Z said:
I've been skimming people's post about Black Widow because I didn't want to be spoiled, and maybe because the reviews around here have been mixed I went in with lowered expectations, but I enjoyed it a lot more than a thought I would. To me, it felt a lot more like the Marvel Phase 1 movies, where they'd cater the style to movie to the character's background, moreso than the more recent films which they've used the "Marvel formula". Now, having said that, it brings me to my two biggest issues with the film:

1) this movie really should have been plotted and released long before Infinity War to have more of an impact. And 2), they really should have cut Red Guardian. The first third?-Half?- felt like a Jason Bourne* movie to me, and that was great! But once they added Red Guardian, he just felt too silly and too over-the-top to fit in with the rest of the film. When they got to the Red Room, it felt like they were trying to steer it back to "spy thriller", but the tone of the movie became too muddled. I think the movie, and the ending, would have been much more emotionally impacting if they focused on the bond between just Natasha, Yelena, and Melina, and how the Widow program effected them, and the rest of the Widows. I don't even think it's David Harbour's fault. To me, Red Guardian's role reeks of a room full of male execs who barely had faith in a women-lead hero movie, and insisted that they needed a guy for "comic relief" because Yelena's sassy attitude wouldn't bring enough levity. Personally, I thought she was funny enough.


*Mr. Z watched the Bourne movies and I was just usually in the room, so I wasn't paying that close attention. If anyone's going to nit-pick the comparison, don't waste the post, because it's going to fall on deaf ears. I don't care enough. From what I SAW, it felt very Bourne-esque to me.
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I thought Red Guardian was one of the best parts. In fact, I loved everything about the 'fake' family, and I wish there was more of it. The huge bombastic (I keep using that word) action scene at the end should have been pared down to be more personal, about Natasha overcoming her demons and learning to forgive herself. And I guess we got that, but... I dunno. I feel like Cap facing down Bucky as the Winter Soldier and refusing to fight him is more iconic, and sticks with me longer. I don't know what they should have done, but it didn't have to be the literal sky falling.
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

Ravenpoe said:
I thought Red Guardian was one of the best parts. In fact, I loved everything about the 'fake' family, and I wish there was more of it. The huge bombastic (I keep using that word) action scene at the end should have been pared down to be more personal, about Natasha overcoming her demons and learning to forgive herself. And I guess we got that, but... I dunno. I feel like Cap facing down Bucky as the Winter Soldier and refusing to fight him is more iconic, and sticks with me longer. I don't know what they should have done, but it didn't have to be the literal sky falling.
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I agree with you about the fake family (well, maybe not Alexsi) and the bombastic ending, but I think that comes back to my feeling that things would have improved if they focused more on the emotional toll, and letting Natasha do what she does best: get inside people's heads. (Sorry, Wanda!) Again, I feel like the ending was men going, "Not emotions! Explosions! Skyfalls! Bond, not bonding!", and it was a wrong fit for her character in some ways. It felt like the team taking down the Red Room was too rushed to get to "everything falls from the sky!".
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I completely agree with @Celt Z about almost everything. The beginning was very grim and then there was this almost unnecessary tonal shift that tried to make things comedic and light-hearted. It would have been much better to keep the darker tone and just DC grim-dark the shit out of this. The subject matter deserved to be darker and more emotionally impactful.

And the fact that this wasn’t released before Infinity War is about the closest thing to a crime that Marvel has done. Bringing it out this late took away anything even remotely resembling suspense. It’s a real shame they dropped the ball on this because it would have REALLY made her sacrifice mean something more.

I liked the film but mourn what it could have been.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Is this the legit poster? We knew Wanda was going to be involved since it was announced, but recently there has been a lot of rumors that Loki would also be involved. It kind of makes sense, as both WandaVision and Loki were supposed to come out around the same time in spring 2021, and then lead into Doctor Strange 2 releasing in May. When the pandemic happened it threw the whole schedule into disarray, so the leads ins are no longer as clean.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

One other thing of note that isn't really talked about, is that Elizabeth Olson said Sam Raimi is making a movie that feels "Old Raimi" Aka Evil Dead and Army of Darkness. She said it's going to be the most terrifying Marvel movie yet, close to a horror movie. Will be real interesting to see how that plays out.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ScytheRexx said:
Is this the legit poster? We knew Wanda was going to be involved since it was announced, but recently there has been a lot of rumors that Loki would also be involved. It kind of makes sense, as both WandaVision and Loki were supposed to come out around the same time in spring 2021, and then lead into Doctor Strange 2 releasing in May. When the pandemic happened it threw the whole schedule into disarray, so the leads ins are no longer as clean.
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It has a Marvel Whatnow watermark, which is an unaffiliated podcast and art producer on instagram. So Probably not.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

This reminds me. The vast majority of mid and big name actors I can think of have now been in an MCU movie. A few of the hold outs like Angelina Jolie, Russel Crowe, and Christian Bale are now entering the MCU in Phase 4. We have reached a point where the list for actors I know well that have not been in an MCU movie is smaller then the ones that have.

Make me thing what actors that have moved on from this world that would have been great in an MCU movie, like Dennis Hopper playing Mephisto.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

ScytheRexx said:
This reminds me. The vast majority of mid and big name actors I can think of have now been in an MCU movie. A few of the hold outs like Angelina Jolie, Russel Crowe, and Christian Bale are now entering the MCU in Phase 4. We have reached a point where the list for actors I know well that have not been in an MCU movie is smaller then the ones that have.

Make me thing what actors that have moved on from this world that would have been great in an MCU movie, like Dennis Hopper playing Mephisto.
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There's still some big names I'm surprised haven't jumped on yet. Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, etc. For awhile, I thought Cruise could maybe play Adam Warlock. Apparently there's rumors Zac Effron might be playing him, which I think is a great choice. Of course, the others I mentioned are getting up there in age and might just not be interested in doing a big superhero movie. And I don't even know what roles are even left they could play. Hanks is old enough to play a role like, say, Uncle Ben.

Thing is, too, a lot of the roles aren't going to "big" names. Hemsworth, Evans, Pratt, Larson, Boseman, Holland, and now Simu Liu. Popular actors you could find in other popular things, perhaps, but not an actor that was ever really on a "billion dollar movie leading star" level. Even RDJ wasn't a big name when he took on the role. Iron Man was something of a comeback for him after cleaning up, so even hiring him was a risk at the time. If anything, the role that they've been hired for made them a "big" name today.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

ScytheRexx said:
what actors that have moved on from this world that would have been great in an MCU movie
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Vincent Price or Christopher Lee as Baron Mordo
Robin Williams as Madcap
Leonard Nimoy as the Living Tribunal
Cicely Tyson as Misty Knight
James Garner as Booster Gold
Agnes Moorehead or Jessica Tandy as Aunt May
Katharine Hepburn as Sue Richards
Robert Mitchum as Tombstone
Julius Carry as Cloak
Debbie Reynolds as Dagger
Manute Bol as Daddy Longlegs
Carolyn Jones as Emma Frost

--Patrick
 
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