Microsoft SkyDrive

[Covar]

Anyone else using this? I know it was limited to the point of uselessness when it first came out, but it's become a Dropbox replacement for me now.

For those who don't know SkyDrive is a cloud storage/syncing solution that works largely the same way as Dropbox. 7GB free space, with additional space costing roughly $0.50 per GB per year (in 20, 50, and 100 GB plans).

The big difference in free space between Dropbox and SkyDrive is largely why I've been using it more (plus it's cheaper if I want to upgrade). I've made it my default library locations for Documents and Pictures (something I should have done with Dropbox).

Fun fact: Office 2013 will be saving to a SkyDrive folder by default.

 

[klew]

I primarily use Dropbox because there is no official SkyDrive app for Android, though I also use Box and SugarSync for Android.

 

[Gared]

I am extremely conflicted about SkyDrive... mayhaps I will explain some of my conflicted feelings sometime when I'm not posting from work.

 

[strawman]

I already had to read the complete terms and conditions of dropbox and google, and I'm not keen on reading yet another set of them.

Dropbox is acceptable, but only just barely, and I can't use google's due to the rights they gain to my materials when I place them on their drive.

 

[Gared]

OK, off work and back home now, so I'm not posting potentially derogatory comments about SkyDrive from a Microsoft IP address, so here we go:

• SkyDrive is notoriously unstable when it comes to linking photos to and/or from Hotmail and Windows Live Mail (the desktop app) emails. Frequently, and for no discernible reason, people attempting to send emails with pictures inline in the email will get just gray boxes with a red "broken link" x in the corner. Also frequently, and also apparently for no discernible reason, people receiving emails with attached photos will get the same gray box/red x when they attempt to view the attached photos. Furthermore, also frequently and apparently indescernibly, people receiving emails from people who sent the emails through Hotmail or WLM and who included images inline in the email body, will instead receive an email with attached images.
• If you aren't careful and paying attention when you set up your SkyDrive account, you can easily miss the checkbox, which is unchecked by default, that tells the system that you don't want your files to be automatically deleted after 90 days. In other words, the default behavior of the service is to delete anything you attempt to store there after 90 days. Any files that are automatically deleted by the system can only be recovered within 72 hours of their deletion, and you have to go through the online support system that is no longer moderated solely by MSFT employees/vendors, but also by the community at large.
• Microsoft has an automated image crawler, for lack of a better term, that checks any and all images that touch their servers for adult content, and then checks any adult content for the presence of child pornography. That, in and of itself, can be a great thing. It, and the team that deployed it, and the vendor who supports it, do an awesome job of shutting down CP sites and getting people investigated by law enforcement. However, the automated crawler has a very loose definition of adult content, and (there've been cases of this and there's very little MSFT can do when it happens) you can lose access to your SkyDrive, Hotmail, Photo Gallery, and any other Microsoft Windows Live linked accounts, including your Xbox Live account, for posting a pic of someone working out in a sports bra, etc. If you lose an account in that fashion, it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get your XBLA balance applied to a new account.
• Whenever there's an update to the service, which happens every 3 or 4 months on average, SkyDrive has a nasty habit of losing content. Entire photo albums will just up and disappear, and there's nothing that MSFT support can do.

Now, all of that being said, if all you want to use the service for is to provide temporary links to large files for people to download and/or view, or if you've considered those risks and find them to be acceptable, go for it.

 

[Covar]

OK, off work and back home now, so I'm not posting potentially derogatory comments about SkyDrive from a Microsoft IP address, so here we go:

• SkyDrive is notoriously unstable when it comes to linking photos to and/or from Hotmail and Windows Live Mail (the desktop app) emails. Frequently, and for no discernible reason, people attempting to send emails with pictures inline in the email will get just gray boxes with a red "broken link" x in the corner. Also frequently, and also apparently for no discernible reason, people receiving emails with attached photos will get the same gray box/red x when they attempt to view the attached photos. Furthermore, also frequently and apparently indescernibly, people receiving emails from people who sent the emails through Hotmail or WLM and who included images inline in the email body, will instead receive an email with attached images.

I've never linked photos with it, but I'll take your word for it. I see why that would be annoying though. I did share some videos I took on my iPhone with my mother though, there were some issues on her end, something about needing to sign in. I believe she did manage to figure out how to just download them eventually.

• If you aren't careful and paying attention when you set up your SkyDrive account, you can easily miss the checkbox, which is unchecked by default, that tells the system that you don't want your files to be automatically deleted after 90 days. In other words, the default behavior of the service is to delete anything you attempt to store there after 90 days. Any files that are automatically deleted by the system can only be recovered within 72 hours of their deletion, and you have to go through the online support system that is no longer moderated solely by MSFT employees/vendors, but also by the community at large.

This may have changed. I don't recall ever seeing such a thing setting up my Microsoft account nor installing SkyDrive onto my PC.

• Microsoft has an automated image crawler, for lack of a better term, that checks any and all images that touch their servers for adult content, and then checks any adult content for the presence of child pornography. That, in and of itself, can be a great thing. It, and the team that deployed it, and the vendor who supports it, do an awesome job of shutting down CP sites and getting people investigated by law enforcement. However, the automated crawler has a very loose definition of adult content, and (there've been cases of this and there's very little MSFT can do when it happens) you can lose access to your SkyDrive, Hotmail, Photo Gallery, and any other Microsoft Windows Live linked accounts, including your Xbox Live account, for posting a pic of someone working out in a sports bra, etc. If you lose an account in that fashion, it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get your XBLA balance applied to a new account.

Yea that can be bad.

• Whenever there's an update to the service, which happens every 3 or 4 months on average, SkyDrive has a nasty habit of losing content. Entire photo albums will just up and disappear, and there's nothing that MSFT support can do.

Does that included the local copies? That would suck. If it was just the online copy and things needed to be re-upped, it would be a pain, but I wouldn't care.

Now, all of that being said, if all you want to use the service for is to provide temporary links to large files for people to download and/or view, or if you've considered those risks and find them to be acceptable, go for it.

I'm mostly using it as a syncing service where it works pretty much exactly like Dropbox. The biggest things for me over Dropbox is the space and the prices for upgrading (which I probably will do if they add better video/music integration). Plus being a Microsoft product there's potential for better integration into their other products (see Office 15), that tells me this is a product I want to check out and keep an eye on.

 

[jwhouk]

Gared, you might be the one to ask about this - is SkyDrive free for those of us who still pay Microsoft a monthly fee for our MSN.com e-mail account? (in other words, those of us who are "MSN subscribers" - don't laugh, it was how I got on line before cable modems came to my neck of the woods)

 

[Bubble181]

Gared, you might be the one to ask about this - is SkyDrive free for those of us who still pay Microsoft a monthly fee for our MSN.com e-mail account? (in other words, those of us who are "MSN subscribers" - don't laugh, it was how I got on line before cable modems came to my neck of the woods)

I'm sorry, the idea of having to pay for an MSN mailbox is still worthy of a laugh. *snrk*

That said, as just a place to occassionally upload a large file for people to download, I've never had any trouble with SkyDrive. Haven't used it all that much, and I've heard/seen complaints about all the things Gared said, so be wary what you use it for.

 

[Gared]

Gared, you might be the one to ask about this - is SkyDrive free for those of us who still pay Microsoft a monthly fee for our MSN.com e-mail account? (in other words, those of us who are "MSN subscribers" - don't laugh, it was how I got on line before cable modems came to my neck of the woods)

Yes it is. MSN.com e-mail accounts have been merged with Windows Live, giving you a Windows Live Hotmail account, which you pay for through your MSN.com subscription (paying for the account increases your email storage space from 5GB to 10GB). The basic 7GB storage package is free for all Windows Live account holders, and is automatically included in your account. In fact, you've had SkyDrive for the past year, whether you knew it or ever accessed it or not. If you'd like, I can check to see if the fact that you're paying for your email account also means that you get additional storage in SkyDrive above 7GB - though a response will probably have to wait until early next week, my SkyDrive contact has had the last couple days off.

 

[jwhouk]

Yeah, if you would. I don't use it (SkyDrive), but it'd be nice to know.

 

[Gared]

Yeah, if you would. I don't use it (SkyDrive), but it'd be nice to know.

OK, will do.

 

[evilmike]

I already had to read the complete terms and conditions of dropbox and google, and I'm not keen on reading yet another set of them.

Dropbox is acceptable, but only just barely, and I can't use google's due to the rights they gain to my materials when I place them on their drive.

What are the main sticking points for rights issues for google?

 

[GasBandit]

What are the main sticking points for rights issues for google?

"We don't own what you put in your google drive, but we do have rights to use it however we want and make derivative works forever, even if you stop using google drive."

 

[Gared]

jwhouk and anyone else who's wondering, if you have a paid MSN account (which comes with extra Hotmail storage space), you still have to pay for a SkyDrive upgrade if you want more than the 7GB of space that comes standard with a free SkyDrive account.

 

[jwhouk]

Loverly.

 

[Gared]

"We don't own what you put in your google drive, but we do have rights to use it however we want and make derivative works forever, even if you stop using google drive."

Along those lines, Microsoft have just updated their user agreement, which will go into effect on 10/19/2012:

3.3. What does Microsoft do with my content? When you upload your content to the services, you agree that it may be used, modified, adapted, saved, reproduced, distributed, and displayed to the extent necessary to protect you and to provide, protect and improve Microsoft products and services.

Also:

3.5. What type of content isn't permitted? Content that violates this agreement, which includes the Microsoft Anti-Spam Policy(http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=117951) and the Microsoft Code of Conduct (http://g.live.com/0ELHP_MEREN/243) or your local law isn't permitted on the services. Microsoft reserves the right to review content for the purpose of enforcing this agreement. Microsoft may block or otherwise prevent delivery of any type of email, instant message, or other communication to or from the services as part of our effort to protect the services or our customers, or otherwise enforce the terms of this agreement.

And, for anyone who doesn't want to go clicking around, here is a list of content types prohibited in the Code of Conduct:

You will not upload, post, transmit, transfer, distribute or facilitate distribution of any content (including text, images, sound, video, data, information or software) or otherwise use the service in a way that:

• depicts nudity of any sort including full or partial human nudity or nudity in non-human forms such as cartoons, fantasy art or manga.
• incites, advocates, or expresses pornography, obscenity, vulgarity, profanity, hatred, bigotry, racism, or gratuitous violence.
• misrepresents the source of anything you post or upload, including impersonation of another individual or entity.
• provides or creates links to external sites that violate this Code of Conduct.
• includes content that is protected by intellectual property laws, rights of privacy or publicity, or any other applicable law unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all necessary consents.
• is intended to harm or exploit minors in any way.
• is designed to solicit, or collect personally identifiable information of any minor (anyone under 18 years old), including, but not limited to: name, email address, home address, phone number, or the name of their school.
• invades anyone's privacy by attempting to harvest, collect, store, or publish private or personally identifiable information, such as passwords, account information, credit card numbers, addresses, or other contact information without their knowledge and willing consent.
• is illegal or violates any applicable local and national laws; including but not limited to child pornography, bestiality, incest, illegal drugs, software piracy, and harassment.
• threatens, stalks, defames, defrauds, degrades, victimizes or intimidates an individual or group of individuals for any reason; including on the basis of age, gender, disability, ethnicity, sexual orientation, race or religion; or incites or encourages anyone else to do so.
• harms or disrupts, or intends to harm or disrupt, another user's computer or would allow you or others to illegally access software or bypass security on Web sites, or servers, including but not limited to spamming.
• attempts to impersonate a Microsoft employee, agent, manager, host, administrator, moderator, another user or any other person through any means.
• promotes or otherwise facilitates the purchase and sale of ammunition or firearms.
• contains or could be considered 'junk mail', 'spam', 'chain letters', 'pyramid schemes', 'affiliate marketing' or unsolicited commercial advertisement.
• mischaracterizes content you post or upload or contains the same or similar content to other content you have already posted.
• attempts to manipulate the services, including ranking and reputation systems in the services, by violating any of the provisions of this Code of Conduct, colluding with others on voting or using multiple profiles.
• offers to make international money transfers for amounts exceeding the asking price of an item, with intent to request a refund of any portion of the payment.
• contains advertising for money making schemes, discount cards, credit counseling, online surveys or online contests.

You will not use any form of automated device or computer program that enables the submission of postings without the express written consent of Microsoft Corporation.

Emphases mine. So, no swearing, no being vulgar, no uploading pictures of personal firearms/ammo if you intend to use those pics to help you sell them, and no posting of duplicate content, even if that content is a duplicate of your own work. Oh yes, and no porn. Keep in mind that this code of conduct pertains to Windows Phone as well, so sexting (even if you're of perfectly legal age and sexting another person who is also of perfectly legal age) can get you banned.
And, no matter how wrong things might go:

10.4. Class action waiver. Any proceedings to resolve or litigate any dispute in any forum will be conducted solely on an individual basis. Neither you nor Microsoft will seek to have any dispute heard as a class action or in any other proceeding in which either party acts or proposes to act in a representative capacity. No arbitration or proceeding will be combined with another without the prior written consent of all parties to all affected arbitrations or proceedings.

 

[klew]

There is also now an official Skydrive Android app.

 

[jwhouk]

What, no iPhone/iPod app?

 

[PatrThom]

If I care about it at all, nothing that "lives" on someone else's device will ever be stored in plaintext. There are plenty of handy utilities for securing your stuff (many of them free!), and there is no excuse not to use them.

Also, these agreements will all fall due to competitive pressures once cloud storage goes mainstream enough that the costs of warehousing data go down and allow more players to enter the field. It's all going to be about the indemnity.

--Patrick