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In many cases a spin-off or sequal series can be a good thing. Things like Beast Wars or Darkwing Duck have been most enjoyable. However there seem to be more bad than good. They end up messing with too much continuity, bring new actors for characters who had actors that were all-ready fine, or just all around suck. This is where we vent.

In recent years I'd have have to say Ben Ten Ultimate Alien Force is one of the most disapointing sequal series I've ever seen. Cartoon Network made the classic mistake of continuing the series without the original creators. While I admit it's not the worst thing I've seen, even being good at times I still feel it fails as a sequel. For one, it messes way too much with established continuity. The episode where Gwen's father told her "There's no such thing a magic honey. Your grandmother's an alien" is a prime idiotic example. There have been at least 10 episodes that showed magic being used, and now their just saying it doesn't exist to force the sci-fi angle. I also like how they changed her aura to pink, even though her magical aura was seen as gold of blue in the previous series. And feminism marches on! Also, her hair color changed. I know it's nit-picky-SHUTUP!

Then there's Keven Elleven, no longer a villain who works along side the main characters. The problem with Kevin is that he's probably more interesting than Ben is. Kevin has so many episodes dedicated to his back-story it's re-DIC-ulous. They also just decided to change his powers from absorbing energy to being able to absorb anything he touches, which is really just ONE power making the name Kevin Elleven pointless.

And then there's Ben...and then there's Ben. In the first two seasons they tried to make Ben seem more mature to go with the new dark tone of the show. This ended up not going well with old fans of the show so changed his personality at the beginning of season 3 of Alien force back to be more similar to his 10 year old persona. This is good in THEORY. It makes the show definitely more humourous but in doing so makes Ben seem more unlikable. In the original series it was okay for Ben to act so selfish because he was just a dumb 10 year old so it worked. Showing Ben as a teenager act as when he 10 years old shows that rather than maturing he's simply regressed. And then we got his new aliens...URRRRRRRRRRGH. It's not the new aliens that really bothe me but so much how he got them. In the beginning of the series he's shown to not have the Omnitrix on his wrist anymore...even though he liked being a hero. Then after random aliens, he gets a holo-macguffin from his Grampa Max telling Ben "I have the Omnitrix. Don't worry, it's in good hands." Turns out Ben STILL has the Omnitrix, and when he puts it on he get's a new toyline for kids to bu-I MEAN set of aliens. Neither Max's comment, or Ben's new set of aliens are EVER EXPLAINED! I though hey, maybe it's a different omnitrix! But that can't be because apparently Albeedo said that their can't be more than one Omnitrix in the universe at one time(once again going against continuity where Ben's son in the future had AND OMNITRIX!)

I could go on and on, but it would take all day. So basically just pick a spin-off or sequal series you don't care for and rant the hell out of it! Make em as big or small as you want, just have fun letting off steam.

Sequel.

And Serenity was a big step down from Firefly.

Yoshimickster - I'm trying to think of bad spin-off situations but all I can think of are the good ones like Frasier or Tailspin (Weird that I think of those two together.....) I know alot of people will call the Matrix movies bad sequels but I found them interesting enough to accept them into the storyline.

Charlie Don't Surf said:

Sequel.

And Serenity was a big step down from Firefly.

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Charlie Don't Surf said:

Sequel.

And Serenity was a big step down from Firefly.

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Dangit, I always get that wrong! Care to elaborate on Serenity?

It was full of Bad Whedon and didn't really take advantage or in any way recognize the differences between TV and movies.

I'm honestly not trolling, this just jumped to mind since I rewatched Firefly earlier this week. It was a great show and just an okay movie.

Yeah movies based on shows can be a real let down sometimes.

Probly the sequal I hate the most would be Dragon Ball GT. Soooooooooooooo many missed oppurtunities.

Charlie Don't Surf said:

It was full of Bad Whedon and didn't really take advantage or in any way recognize the differences between TV and movies.

I'm honestly not trolling, this just jumped to mind since I rewatched Firefly earlier this week. It was a great show and just an okay movie.

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Well you're entitled to your opinion, that's for sure.

Mine is the exact opposite entirely of nearly everything you just wrote. *shrug*

You thought Serenity was a lot better than Firefly?

I thought Serenity was exactly what Firefly needed if it was going to be "sent off" permanently.

It wrapped up every storyline that the series had hanging (with the exception of Book who got his own mini-comic for that) and did it in a way that showed the strength of each of the characters in ways we didn't get to see them grow in the series.

Well, nine posts in and we have an argument. I feel disturbingly proud.

If you think this is an argument, you need to stick around a bit more. This is daily conversation round these parts

Yeah, but it's just those two. They always argue.

As for me....Highlander & the Star Wars Prequels. Both were fucking stupid, but Lucas managed to string fucking stupid out for 3 movies.

I feel this belongs here

Dave said:

Yeah, but it's just those two. They always argue.

As for me....Highlander & the Star Wars Prequels. Both were fucking stupid, but Lucas managed to string fucking stupid out for 3 movies.

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Amen to that brother. Ever see the Red Letter Reviews of those? That dude fricking tearst those movies apart!

That's pretty light for this forum. Wait 'til we start going off topic within the first three posts. Then you'll feel right at home.

Sequels or spin-offs. Hm. Well, as a comic book guru, I've got a couple:
-The Dark Knight Strikes Again (pretty much Frank Miller saying 'fuck you' to everyone)
-Fables (really, it should have ended at the conclusion of The Adversary, but then it suddenly turned into a franchise; I include the Jack of Fables book with this)
-Venom (giving the first big Spider-Man villain since all the original ones, and you give him his own series of spin-off mini-series? Ugh. Mind you, I was a huge Venom fanboy at the time and I bought them all. Dammit, that makes me a hypocrite.)

Movies? Well, there's the Superman sequels. III and IV don't exist. Though I'm in the minority that loved Superman Returns. There's Star Wars, of course, though I don't hate the prequels. They just don't hold up in comparison to the originals. I liked The Matrix and Pirates sequels, but they pale in comparison to their respective first movies.

Apparently Mass Effect 3.

GT was bad because Toriyama had nothing to do with it. That was all the studio trying to milk DB for some more sweet, sweet yen.


Edit: Superman Returns' major flaw was it being boring as shit. I wish they'd stop making Luthor into some insane real estate agent and let him do some crazy mad science and whatnot.

Anyone who says the Prequels have any redeeming factor at all have not seen the Red Letter Media reviews. They're done in a "funny way" but they expose the prequels for what they are. Not just bad Star Wars movies but piss poor films all together.

ThatNickGuy said:

-Venom (giving the first big Spider-Man villain since all the original ones, and you give him his own series of spin-off mini-series? Ugh. Mind you, I was a huge Venom fanboy at the time and I bought them all. Dammit, that makes me a hypocrite.)

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Yeah we all did back then. Still beats that Marvel Knights Spider-man book. Whoever thought Mac Gargan should be the new Venom is an IDIOT. Now Eddie Brock is Anti-Venom, Venom is now Flash Thompson ...although he looks more like Grendel than Venom.

You know, I can't really enjoy the Red Letter Media videos. Don't get me wrong, he raises a lot of good points, but like Spoony or Linkara's videos, he adds in that other side-element that has nothing to do with the video. Like being a rapist serial killer or something. It just turns me off of the whole thing.

ThatNickGuy said:

You know, I can't really enjoy the Red Letter Media videos. Don't get me wrong, he raises a lot of good points, but like Spoony or Linkara's videos, he adds in that other side-element that has nothing to do with the video. Like being a rapist serial killer or something. It just turns me off of the whole thing.

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Yeah that is one of the major criticisms toward the series. I find it hilarious, but I am a messed up man.

BOT, every Power Rangers to somebody. For 90s kids it's after Mighty Morphin, and so on and so on. Basically raising generation to generation of kids saying "Wait...their making a new ranger show? BUT WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE OLD ONE?!" Same can be said for Kamen Rider, Ultraman, and just about every long-running tokusatsu series EVER.

Yoshimickster said:

Yeah that is one of the major criticisms toward the series. I find it hilarious, but I am a messed up man.

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I tolerate that stuff--it doesn't turn me off from the analysis.

My wife, on the other hand, finds that stuff hilarious. She's messed up too. :/

Your a lucky man Quotemander.

Now as for a crappy spin-off...Cleveland Show. SOoooooooooo disapointing. They turned Cleveland from the wise reasonable character to basically Black Peter. Cleveland had his own personality before this stupid show, and it ticks me off that Seth Macfarlane succeeded in making the same stupid show three times.

Maude

Shegokigo said:

I thought Serenity was exactly what Firefly needed if it was going to be "sent off" permanently.

It wrapped up every storyline that the series had hanging (with the exception of Book who got his own mini-comic for that) and did it in a way that showed the strength of each of the characters in ways we didn't get to see them grow in the series.

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Mr. Universe was pretty shitty.

Yoshimickster said:

Yeah we all did back then. Still beats that Marvel Knights Spider-man book. Whoever thought Mac Gargan should be the new Venom is an IDIOT. Now Eddie Brock is Anti-Venom, Venom is now Flash Thompson ...although he looks more like Grendel than Venom.

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Mac Gargan Venom in the Thunderbolts was pretty awesome. Constantly demonstrated how much Gargan regretted bonding with the symbiote.

Frankie Williamson said:

Mac Gargan Venom in the Thunderbolts was pretty awesome. Constantly demonstrated how much Gargan regretted bonding with the symbiote.

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Yeah, his lines in the first Thunderbolts trade about it were pretty good. Something about how it's always there, in his stomach, like he wants to throw up but he can't, and doesn't know how he lives with it. But on the other side of the coin, he wonders how he's managed to live so long without it.

Frankie Williamson said:

Mac Gargan Venom in the Thunderbolts was pretty awesome. Constantly demonstrated how much Gargan regretted bonding with the symbiote.

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Yeah that was arright, but then Gobby gave him that serum and became the Spider-man and loved it. I still feel weird about it.

Spin-offs that disappoint?

Love Boat the Next Wave
Joanie Loves Chachi
After MASH
Flo
Baywatch Nights
The Colbys
Models Inc
The Law and Harry McGraw (I miss Jerry )

First, I love Serenity, show's better, but Serenity is really good imo

Second, another spin-off that sucked: the final season of Scrubs. While not technically a real spin-off, it pretty much was since less than half the original cast was back for the full run (including the main character), the setting changed, and they added a little "Med School" subtitle to it.

General Specific said:

First, I love Serenity, show's better, but Serenity is really good imo

Second, another spin-off that sucked: the final season of Scrubs. While not technically a real spin-off, it pretty much was since less than half the original cast was back for the full run (including the main character), the setting changed, and they added a little "Med School" subtitle to it.

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a

Yeah Scrubs went down by the season before that. I mean, what was the point in that chick being impregnated by J.D. other than to give hi m some bull-crap character development. And when they break up SHE IS ALMOST NEVER SEEN AGAIN. Why couldn't J.D. and Elliot be toghether in the second season and NOT break up. It worked in the Office, it would've worked here.

Video game wise, a couple come to mind.

Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger was the first real RPG that I ever played, and man did I love it! So of course, when I heard they were making a sequel, I was pumped. Then I played it. Absolutely hated the magic system, there were only 3 combo attacks in the entire game, and the characters were not appealing at all. The only thing I liked about the game was the music, but that was not nearly enough to save it.

Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Sands of Time was fun, engaging, and a challenge. Warrior Within was the most horrible, emo-dripping, lame-ass attempt at a follow up that I think they could have come up with. At one point I actually just dropped the controller, turned off the console, and put the game back on my shelf to never be touched again. Ugh!

Video Game Wise? That's easy.

Xenosaga not being Xenogears 2
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance not being Final Fantasy Tactics 2.

Video games are easy, uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh Mario DDR. Waluigi was the antagonist. Nuff said.

Charlie Don't Surf said:

Sequel.

And Serenity was a big step down from Firefly.

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I agree. And literally every person I know who is a fan of the show agrees as well. The movie was too flashy and over produced (One thing I noticed right away is you could hear sound in space, which they never did in the show). And they ruined the Reavers by explaining them. And I didn't like that they had Simon rescue River himself. It seemed at odds with his character and with his explanation in the first episode. I like the movie, but yeah I think its a huge step down from the show.

Shegokigo said:

It wrapped up every storyline that the series had hanging (with the exception of Book who got his own mini-comic for that) and did it in a way that showed the strength of each of the characters in ways we didn't get to see them grow in the series.

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I felt it left a whole lot of things unwrapped. The hands of blue, Mal and Inara's relationship (I mean it sort of did but not really. It did the same thing the show did by just hinting at it but offering no real closure), or the whole subplot they had going with Inara's lack of aging. Or Neska.

Most disappointing sequel I can think of off the top of my head is Spider-Man 3.

Basically I thought the whole Spider Man franchise was lame, albeit still weirdly enjoyable. I feel very neutral about them.

I am pretty sure I've said this before, but Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie ever made*


*I haven't seen Superman 1

Charlie Don't Surf said:

I am pretty sure I've said this before, but Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie ever made*


*I haven't seen Superman 1

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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah no. That would be The Dark Knight, or Tim Burton's Batman.

Another one, uuuuuuuuuuuuh Evil Inc can be kinda annoying. Especially since Lightning lady(the only character from Greystone Inn STILL IN THE COMIC) is one of the most boring characters in the comic.

Burton's Batman movies have not aged well; not since Nolan blew them out of the Batcave. The Raimi Spider-Man movies have not aged well, either. I include Spider-Man 2 in that, though it's still the best of the three, and still likely in my top ten superhero movies.

Really? I'll have to see Spider-man too again. My favorite comic book movie has to be Scott Pilgrim vs. the world of course.

Tim Burton's Batman movies are just flat out bad. The Dark Knight's third act was a mess.

if we're going down the Super Hero Movie Rabbit Hole - Watchmen

Charlie Don't Surf said:

Tim Burton's Batman movies are just flat out bad. The Dark Knight's third act was a mess.

if we're going down the Super Hero Movie Rabbit Hole - Watchmen

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While I don't nessecarily agree with you on Burton's films I will admit the end to the Dark Knight was rushed. BUT WATCHMEN. SWEET STRAWBERRY JESUS. I mean, you know how in the comics their's an actual mystery to who's the bad guy. In the movie(without spoiling)-IT-IS-OBVIOUS! Why can't Alan Moore have a good movie based on his comics. Speaking of the Watchmen, is that sequel by Gaiman really happening? It maybe the only thing I won't like from him.

And who said The Dark Knight 2? I agree. From what my brother says the original series didn't even NEED a sequel. Oh Frank Miller, what did they do to your brain?! Remember Ronin? IT WAS BEAUTIFUL! But noooooooooooow, the only thing he'll be known for is making a hilarious internet meme.

I won't say Burton's Batman movies are plain bad. They just haven't aged well. They're still watchable in comparison to so many other horrendous superhero movies out there like Catwoman, Steel, the first Captain America movie, etc. Don't know what you're trying to say there about Watchmen. Are you saying good or bad?

Charlie Don't Surf said:

The Dark Knight's third act was a mess.

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Interesting. I don't agree, but do please elaborate.

Two Face's development kind of goes at a breakneck speed to keep the movie from being three hours. I really hated the surveillance crap shoehorned in to the final Joker showdown (although I loved everything else about it). The whole morality play on the boats was just kind of limp to me.

Man now that were on Batman I keep thinking of all the horrible Batman spin-offs there are. Does that "Titans" count? I know it still sucks I've seen the AT4W.

Enterprise. I'm sorry, it started out good, but that whole "obliterate the Eastern Seaboard and chase the culprits across the galaxy through time" thing just... ew.

Oblivion, to Morrowind.

Team Knight Rider

Games:

Masters of Orion 3 - worst ever sequel.

I'd love to see a High Def remake of MoO2

Not sure if I've said this yet, but Spyro enter the Dragonfly. Ripto comes back to life with NO explanation, and he is the ONLY BOSS. This ain't Mario bros people!

Oh man, if we're including videogames, every Sonic game that followed Sonic & Knuckles, (from what I understand, less so with Sonic 4, Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations. I've only played demos of each)

Don't get me STARTED on Shadow the Hedgehog. Saying "Damn" does not make you a more interesting character.

Yoshimickster said:

Don't get me STARTED on Shadow the Hedgehog. Saying "Damn" does not make you a more interesting character.

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Well you just destroyed every 1990's comic book.

Also every Sonic cartoon since Sonic SatAM (and even though I know just about everyone disagrees with me, Sonic the Hedgehog)

sixpackshaker said:

Well you just destroyed every 1990's comic book.

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Meh. That's like destroying a condemned building.

checkeredhat said:

Meh. That's like destroying a condemned building.

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I still don't get the hate-on you youngsters have for the Dark Age of Comics. Of course I hated X-Men and various spin-offs anyway, so I was not exposed to Liefield back then.

Yoshimickster said:

Don't get me STARTED on Shadow the Hedgehog. Saying "Damn" does not make you a more interesting character.

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Ron Simmons disagrees!

sixpackshaker said:

I still don't get the hate-on you youngsters have for the Dark Age of Comics. Of course I hated X-Men and various spin-offs anyway, so I was not exposed to Liefield back then.

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90s comics are what got me into comics. They are also what very quickly got me out of comics until the 2000s.

To narrow it down more accurately, replace the second instance of "comics" with "Amazing Spider-Man", and the pronoun "They" with "The Clone Saga"

I just read the normal power DC heroes. Those were some great titles at the time.

Ugh, clone saga. Can't believe I used to think Spidercide looked cool. Ah, youth is stupidity.

Star Control 3.

The clone saga was literally the comic book that put me off of comics for almost ten years. I just gave up.

Movie wise, the biggest dissapointment I can think of right now is Men in Black 2.

Bowielee said:

The clone saga was literally the comic book that put me off of comics for almost ten years. I just gave up.

Movie wise, the biggest dissapointment I can think of right now is Men in Black 2.

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When I was a kid this was my favorite movie. Once again, stupidity of youth.

Yoshimickster said:

Don't get me STARTED on Shadow the Hedgehog. Saying "Damn" does not make you a more interesting character.

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Well, Damn.

Soliloquy said:

Well, Damn.

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Dammit.