My friend's a woman now.

[Chazwozel]

So yesterday was quite the "what the fuck day" for me. One of my closest friends (whom I've known since high school) came out. This is all well and good. It kinda blew me away at first. Thing is, he's also a transgender.

I really have nothing against transvestites, but this completely changes the nature of our friendship. I'm a little frustrated with him since he's been married for four years. I know his wife really well and she's heartbroken. I don't want to abandon my friend, but at the same time, I know we'll never be buddies in the same manner again.

I almost wish he was just gay. I could still maintain a close friendship with him, but he's acting different now. He's taking the whole "I'm a woman" thing too far as in stereotyping how women act and think. I know that this is his path, and he should do what feels right. But at the same time, unless we can form a new relationship with the fact that he's now a woman, I think it's time I say goodbye.

 

[Dave]

Any kids?

This kind of thing is always hard on everyone involved. Not an expert or anything, but it seems that it changes every personal relationship by that person and causes everyone to have to reassess or re-evaluate. I know it sucks for you, but just think of how it is for your friend. The way that (s)he is acting could just be a defensive mechanism.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Be as good of a friend as you can be, she will likely need it. Set some ground rules that you are not interested in tapping that, and you should be OK in the friendship.

 

[Chazwozel]

No kids; they've been married for four years now. it's just a shocker to everyone cause no one saw this coming. He was admittedly bicurious/bisexual, and I guess his wife was ok with that. She's not ok with the whole taking hormones, dressing up like a woman, planning a full sex change thing...

 

[Chibibar]

I have a co-worker that I work before he changed. The process is almost complete and I personally never let our friendship change. I know who she use to be, but I just "switch" in my head and just think of her as a women and it has work for me. We still chat and talk like always so nothing has change other than gender. I know it would be kinda strange since this is a close friend, but I hope that you can continue to be a good friend after the change cause you know she will need support during this hard time.

 

[Chazwozel]

I have a co-worker that I work before he changed. The process is almost complete and I personally never let our friendship change. I know who she use to be, but I just "switch" in my head and just think of her as a women and it has work for me. We still chat and talk like always so nothing has change other than gender. I know it would be kinda strange since this is a close friend, but I hope that you can continue to be a good friend after the change cause you know she will need support during this hard time.

Co-worker anyone can deal with. This has been one of my closest friends since high school. Our friendship IS going to be a lot different.

 

[Dave]

Look at it this way...you are having issues with 1 interpersonal relationship changing. For her it's ALL of them.

Think of how you'd feel if suddenly everyone starting thinking of and treating you differently, even though you yourself don't feel any differently than you ever have before.

 

[Chazwozel]

Any kids?

This kind of thing is always hard on everyone involved. Not an expert or anything, but it seems that it changes every personal relationship by that person and causes everyone to have to reassess or re-evaluate. I know it sucks for you, but just think of how it is for your friend. The way that (s)he is acting could just be a defensive mechanism.

We'll see how it goes, but I'll tell you right now, I'm not 100% on board with the way he went about all this.

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Look at it this way...you are having issues with 1 interpersonal relationship changing. For her it's ALL of them.

Think of how you'd feel if suddenly everyone starting thinking of and treating you differently, even though you yourself don't feel any differently than you ever have before.

I know, Dave. At the same time, he's the one who sprung this all on everyone. What would anyone expect? It's not like we're all shunning him, but a lot of us are hurt that he's never discussed this previously. Like I said, it's more the shock that's getting to me more than anything.

 

[Espy]

Yeah, that sounds tough man. For everyone. For your friend, because suddenly everyone is freaking out, and for everyone because suddenly they have to deal with a HUGE change. Not an insurmountable one, but a shocking one for sure. I really feel for the wife though, I'm generally a "do what you gotta do" kinda guy, but when this sounds like its going to destroy her life, at least for a while. Thats not cool. Of course, that doesn't mean he shouldn't make the decision he made, but it sounds like maybe it could have been done in a slightly less shocking and/or painful way.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Has he finished his gender reassignment? Generally the rule was to live as your desired gender for a specific period of time before making the change permanent.

 

[GasBandit]

I've seen this happen too... a buddy of mine from high school and college who I kinda lost touch with a bit after college. I visited once every 2 or 3 years or so... he got married, got divorced, then when I came back for another visit a few years later, I get the shock of my life when my friend answers the door in a dress. I'm sure my jaw hit the floor, because she then replies "nobody told you?" (see, we have other mutual friends who I would have THOUGHT would have kept me in the loop about such things, or at least would have given me a heads up when they knew I was dropping by to visit on my way through town)

I tried to be as gracious with it as I could, but you're right, Chaz, it just so very fundamentally alters the relationship you have with the person.. I tried to be supportive, but in the back of my head a voice was screaming "WHAT are you DOING?! Stop acting like that! Go put on some real clothes!" Of course I verbalized none of that. The rest of the visit was a little awkward, but at least it wasn't some kind of comedy movie plot. I haven't passed through town again since then (about 3 years ago)... I want to be supportive of my friend, but... to me, she'll always look like my college buddy wearing a dress.

 

[IronBrig4]

I really feel sorry for his wife. I can't even begin to imagine the feelings of doubt, betrayal, and fear that are going through her head right now.

 

[Cajungal]

I can't imagine having to reveal something like that to so many loved ones, having no idea how they would react. It's one of those things that's not easy for anyone. I can understand keeping it secret. A lot of loved ones probably feel like you, Chaz.. a little betrayed because they didn't feel like they could share that. I just hope everything transitions as painlessly as possible.

 

[PatrThom]

Is she still comfortable with you? If so, she's really going to be looking to you for your support. If you're uncomfortable giving it, make sure to break it to her gently. She's likely pretty worked up right now, and if your friendship goes back as far as you say it does, rejecting her outright is going to be extra painful.

Still, I doubt this was a spur-of-the-moment thing. Let her know that, once the initial shock wears off, you might be better able to deal with it. Maybe you'll just have to communicate impersonally for a while (email, texts) until you get used to the idea. To borrow a metaphor from Masamune, only the shell is changing. The Soul is still the same...and has been for quite some time. So long as you were friends with the person, why should the change of vessel matter?

--Patrick
(Disclaimer: I realize I'm probably more open-minded than 99.44% of the World's population, and I don't expect everyone else to change...but that's something I can tolerate.)

 

[Null]

His poor wife.

The first friend of mine who came out, we all pretty much knew before he did. There was no doubt he was going to wind up gay, and that was fine. He made such a big deal out of coming out, though, and it was like, "Yeah, Tom, I've known that since middle school."

Things are going to change, and unfortunately I don't think the friendship is going to be the same for a while. That's a drastic change for anyone to make, they're fundamentally changing their own identity, so you have to adjust to that about them. You may find that the new them isn't someone you want to be friends with.

 

[Chazwozel]

Well, I'll open the door for the elephant hiding in the closet to fully step out into the open.

Ame. How did you deal with this situation? What did your friends do to help you out?

 

[fade]

Chaz, I can't speak with any expertise here, I'll admit. But I have seen the whole over-acting the part bit in other places where someone takes on a new role. I think of it like a pendulum swing. It takes a hard swing to one side to center one's self in the middle. It may be heavy makeup and flowery Sunday dresses now, but that will probably iron out. Just a guess, though.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------

Also: ... is she hot?

 

[Chibibar]

Chaz: I know that my experience dwarf in comparison to yours, but I hope some of it may help. Like I said before, my co-worker change. I work with him day in and day out, but when he became a she, it was a bit awkward at first, but then I just think of her as another co-worker and continue work closely with her. I know that some people are STILL adjusting over 3 years now, but I think it is all up to you.

Your friend can use all the support she can get right now. I know it is going to be hard for you since this is a long time friend, but in the end, she is still your friend with a different shell (stolen from above) It might take some getting use to, but I personally wouldn't write it off immediately. Give it time to sink in a little.

 

[strawman]

Keep in mind that in many cultures men relate to women fundamentally differently than they do to other men.

If his friend wants to fully integrate as a woman into their society, they must recognize that their close personal relationships must also necessarily change.

The concept "The soul is the same, the shell is different" is, at best, a rose-colored-glasses aphorism. At worst it's a dangerous lie. The shell still matters. If it didn't, then there would be no reason for his friend to change it in the first place.

 

[Chazwozel]

Chaz, I can't speak with any expertise here, I'll admit. But I have seen the whole over-acting the part bit in other places where someone takes on a new role. I think of it like a pendulum swing. It takes a hard swing to one side to center one's self in the middle. It may be heavy makeup and flowery Sunday dresses now, but that will probably iron out. Just a guess, though.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------

Also: ... is she hot?

"She" used to be a 6'4" bald man that weighs about 300 lbs. Yeah...

 

[fade]

Grrrrrrrowl.

Adult Swim Video : Robot Chicken : Spring Of The Drowned Girl

 

[strawman]

Chaz, I can't speak with any expertise here, I'll admit. But I have seen the whole over-acting the part bit in other places where someone takes on a new role. I think of it like a pendulum swing. It takes a hard swing to one side to center one's self in the middle. It may be heavy makeup and flowery Sunday dresses now, but that will probably iron out. Just a guess, though.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------

Also: ... is she hot?

"She" used to be a 6'4" bald man that weighs about 300 lbs. Yeah...[/QUOTE]

For those who don't know what 6'4" 300lb man looks like, here is a close representation from Rob's Photographic Height/Weight chart.

 

[Adam]

Chaz, I can't speak with any expertise here, I'll admit. But I have seen the whole over-acting the part bit in other places where someone takes on a new role. I think of it like a pendulum swing. It takes a hard swing to one side to center one's self in the middle. It may be heavy makeup and flowery Sunday dresses now, but that will probably iron out. Just a guess, though.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------

Also: ... is she hot?

"She" used to be a 6'4" bald man that weighs about 300 lbs. Yeah...[/QUOTE]

Well....at least boobs will be easy to acquire.

 

[Jay]

Ouch dude. Yeah, I totally see a change there. I could NOT fathom if one of my close buds suddenly does this. I'm afraid on how I'd react.

I'd had a drinking buddy in the past, many years ago come onto me and reveal that he's bisexual. I never saw that guy again.

 

[Null]

Ouch dude. Yeah, I totally see a change there. I could NOT fathom if one of my close buds suddenly does this. I'm afraid on how I'd react.

I'd had a drinking buddy in the past, many years ago come onto me and reveal that he's bisexual. I never saw that guy again.

You were just a one night stand for him, eh?

 

[Espy]

Ouch dude. Yeah, I totally see a change there. I could NOT fathom if one of my close buds suddenly does this. I'm afraid on how I'd react.

I'd had a drinking buddy in the past, many years ago come onto me and reveal that he's bisexual. I never saw that guy again.

Because he was bisexual you stopped being his friend?

 

[Jay]

Yes. I was extremely uncomfortable with the fact he made a pass at me. I couldn't picture myself hanging out with him again, even with other buddies. I have gay friends/coworkers who I have had never had an issue with them but the fact he legitemately made a pass at me freaked me out.

Though his friend never made a pass at him, I could understand Chaz about how such a thing can change your relation with the other person.

 

[Espy]

Oh my bad, I somehow misread what you said and thought you wrote that he "came out" to you not "came on to you".

That makes a lot more sense now.

 

[makare]

Do you think he wouldn't have respected your negative reaction to the pass he made at you? If it would have just gotten back to normal after I don't see why you weren't friends anymore.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Do you think he wouldn't have respected your negative reaction to the pass he made at you? If it would have just gotten back to normal after I don't see why you weren't friends anymore.

If you are friends with a guy, you make a very obvious pass at him, and he shoots you down in no uncertain terms... do you feel like you could still be best of friends when he does not want to see you naked?

 

[makare]

Do you think he wouldn't have respected your negative reaction to the pass he made at you? If it would have just gotten back to normal after I don't see why you weren't friends anymore.

If you are friends with a guy, you make a very obvious pass at him, and he shoots you down in no uncertain terms... do you feel like you could still be best of friends when he does not want to see you naked?[/QUOTE]

Oh well if the other guy is the one who ended the friendship then I guess that would make sense. But if Im the one getting hit on, like Jay is, in this situation I would be fine being friends after.

I interpreted what Jay said to mean that he is the one who broke off the friendship.

 

[sixpackshaker]

I don't really know many people that get embarrassed in that way and still remain friends with the object of their desires. It is usually very uncomfortable for people to get a stark rejection. Like you totally misread that person's intentions.

 

[Espy]

Personally I don't think its odd for someone to end a relationship after being hit on by the other person if it's not welcome. I can see someone being very uncomfortable with that.

 

[makare]

If the person doing the hitting understands and doesn't bring it up again I don't see what the big deal is. I've been hit on by both men and women I wasn't interested in and we stayed friends. There were a couple men I wasn't friends with anymore after because they were married and that just pisses me off. If the hitting on person does it again then it is a problem but just knowing that someone wants to have some kind of fling with you even if you don't want to, why is that uncomfortable unless they keep bringing it up?

 

[Espy]

Why is it? I dunno, personally I've remained friends with girls I didn't like who hit on me, but I guess I can see how it could make someone uncomfortable (although that probably depends a bit on "how" they hit on you...).