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http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/law-enforcement-investigating-incident-at-bridgewater-plaza/34923086

A cameraman and a reporter were at a water park doing a fluff piece. As they were interviewing the park's manager, a gunman came up behind the cameraman & shot him, then gunned down the running reporter. The manager was not injured in any way. This was specifically targeted at the reporter and the cameraman.

Both have died & the gunman is still at large as of this writing.

The video is in the wild. If you post it here, spoil it. I'm not going to post it but I won't stop anyone else from doing so.

edit: The lady being interviewed was shot as well. They initially said she was unhurt.

It's currently on youtube, but I don't expect it to stay there long.
www.reddit.com/r/nova has a number of posts about it.

The manager was shot in the back and is in surgery.

Holy shit.

Police say they know who did it. Just got that from CNN and the General Manager of the station. It gets even worse.

The cameraman was engaged to be married to the producer of the station's morning show. It was her last day because she got another job at a different station in another town. She was there eating cake and celebrating her last day and then watched her fiance get murdered on live TV. Holy crap I can't even imagine.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-police-shooting-live-television-news-report/

Barb Nocera, an official with the chamber, told The Roanoke Times newspaper that Gardner was shot in the back during the shooting and was in surgery.

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It doesn't appear that there's a link to the shooting video in that article, for those who would prefer not to see it. Plenty of other online news sources are showing the video.[DOUBLEPOST=1440598286,1440597716][/DOUBLEPOST]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nalists-killed-in-Virginia-shooting-live.html

According to reports, the suspect is currently being chased North on I-81. Police have a description of the suspect and have apparently tracked him to the motorway.

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Suspect is being chased by Virginia State police on I-81, if you can believe Twitter. I'm listening to Virginia State police scanner right now and haven't heard anything.

Dave said:

Suspect is being chased by Virginia State police on I-81, if you can believe Twitter. I'm listening to Virginia State police scanner right now and haven't heard anything.

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ABC-13 and the Telegraph report the same thing.

What's interesting is that they are saying that he's being "pinged" on cell towers. They are probably using the Stingray system, which I'm personally against...but I may change my mind a bit if this helps catch the guy. Basically, it's a way of tracking cell phones by spoofing cell towers and hijacking the signal, getting "pings" for location and also being able to listen in to conversations, all without the parties knowing that it is happening. So I'm against the Stingray system, but am glad they have it up right now. So I guess you can say I'm conflicted.

This is just... Wow.

Cranky told me about this, it's hit the news airwaves as far away as BBC News.

Dave said:

What's interesting is that they are saying that he's being "pinged" on cell towers. They are probably using the Stingray system, which I'm personally against...but I may change my mind a bit if this helps catch the guy.

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This is something the phone company can actually do, there's no guarantee they're using Stingrays.

--Patrick

Virginia governor is saying the shooter is a former employee. I'm getting a real "jilted lover" or stalker vibe.[DOUBLEPOST=1440599140,1440599079][/DOUBLEPOST]

PatrThom said:

This is something the phone company can actually do, there's no guarantee they're using Stingrays.

--Patrick

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Too quick for phone company intervention. That would have taken warrants & stuff that would have taken a few hours to get. This was too fast to be anything but Stingray.

VA police scanners are on different frequencies by division. I can hear them discussing it on the division 3 scanner, and trying to coordinate stopping him. They broadcast a description of the shooter and the car, and are discussing getting a national guard helicopter into the action.

Lee Flanagan (that's what it sounded like - they were talking fast) is a name that just came over the scanner. Former employee labeled "disgruntled", which makes sense. He'd have known the news report was going to happen.

Dave said:

Too quick for phone company intervention. That would have taken warrants & stuff that would have taken a few hours to get. This was too fast to be anything but Stingray.

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You're probably right, but they wouldn't have been able to do anything (Stingray or otherwise) without already knowing who they were looking for. Also there's that thing about "exigent circumstances" which, given the current law enforcement climate, may have allowed them to procure carrier cooperation without a warrant.

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

You're probably right, but they wouldn't have been able to do anything (Stingray or otherwise) without already knowing who they were looking for. Also there's that thing about "exigent circumstances" which, given the current law enforcement climate, may have allowed them to procure carrier cooperation without a warrant.

--Patrick

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They know who he is and have been in pursuit. So I stand by my Stingray, damn it.

And listening to the coordination on the scanner is damned interesting.

http://tunein.com/radio/Virginia-State-Police-Division-3-s145408/

Dave said:

So I'm against the Stingray system, but am glad they have it up right now. So I guess you can say I'm conflicted.

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Most systems like this do have their uses in tracking down fugitives/criminals - be it tracking a cell phone, a number plate through traffic cams, following credit card trails, satellite surveillance, and so on. The problem is in defining who can use it, and when, and on who. Loss-of-freedom-for-security-and-all-that. I'm usually conflicted on this sort of issues too.

they're talking about cell tower pings from "10 minutes ago" and "45 minutes ago".

This wouldn't fit in with how stingray works, which works by fooling phones into thinking it's a cell tower, close by.

PatrThom said:

You're probably right, but they wouldn't have been able to do anything (Stingray or otherwise) without already knowing who they were looking for. Also there's that thing about "exigent circumstances" which, given the current law enforcement climate, may have allowed them to procure carrier cooperation without a warrant.

--Patrick

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As much as I hate to defend a spooky big brother tracking system like this, there is a larger practical benefit which would be cell phones and 911 calls. Being able to determine the location of a 911 caller who is unable to give their location in an emergency could be a huge boon and save lives. With sufficient oversight and restrictions of course.

Dave said:

They know who he is and have been in pursuit. So I stand by my Stingray, damn it.

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I'm not saying it isn't one.
I'm just saying that we shouldn't be changing our thoughts on how invasive they are unless/until they admit they were using one.
Also, if this person is actually running around with his actual cell phone on his person, then he's not much of a tactician.

Covar said:

Being able to determine the location of a 911 caller who is unable to give their location in an emergency could be a huge boon and save lives. With sufficient oversight and restrictions of course.

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This already exists, and has for a while.

--Patrick

Covar said:

As much as I hate to defend a spooky big brother tracking system like this, there is a larger practical benefit which would be cell phones and 911 calls. Being able to determine the location of a 911 caller who is unable to give their location in an emergency could be a huge boon and save lives. With sufficient oversight and restrictions of course.

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Yeah, I don't mind the pings, it's more the call monitoring and DDoS capabilities of Stingray that bothers me.

In other news, they are loaded for fucking bear going after this guy. Multiple US Marshalls (of which my cousin is one!), FBI, ATF, many many many different jurisdictions of police. This guy done fucked up. I hope he's caught instead of taking his own life.

Dave said:

Yeah, I don't mind the pings, it's more the call monitoring and DDoS capabilities of Stingray that bothers me.

In other news, they are loaded for fucking bear going after this guy. Multiple US Marshalls (of which my cousin is one!), FBI, ATF, many many many different jurisdictions of police. This guy done fucked up. I hope he's caught instead of taking his own life.

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Gunning people down in front of a camera and running like this pretty strongly implies an intended suicide by cop IMHO

They just mentioned that they're trying to get a "tracking vehicle" into the area. That is probably stingray.

Lester Lee Flanagan. 6'3" 250 pounds. Born in 1973.

Awful.

They found the car at the airport and are now looking for the guy.

Dave said:

They found the car at the airport and are now looking for the guy.

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If he gets through airport security, it will be the ultimate proof that the TSA is of absolutely no use whatsoever.

VESTER Lee Flanagan, not Lester. And they are saying now that he may well have an accomplice. Now THAT dude is fucking stupid if true.

Dude's twitter handle is https://twitter.com/bryce_williams7

And he posted the act to his account. *shudder*

Jesus, this guy needs more names. His full name is William Epperly Vester Lee Flannagan II. He's the one in the middle below. The reporter killed is on the left. Her live in boyfriend (who was a secret boyfriend she just moved in with) is the one on the right.

[PICTURE REMOVED BY GASBANDIT, NOT PICTURE OF ACTUAL PERP]
X

Holy fucking Christ.

Well, I guess I saw the Twitter account just under the wire. It's gone 10 seconds later.

Seeing the picture, oh boy. Can I start the countdown 'till this is turned into a race issue by some fuckwads somehow? 5....4....

Bubble181 said:

Seeing the picture, oh boy. Can I start the countdown 'till this is turned into a race issue by some fuckwads somehow? 5....4....

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He made it into a race issue. Accused the reporter of racist comments and upset she filed a complaint with HR about him.

Already has been. Also a gun control debate. But this screams jilted lover (or stalker) to me. Girl is in a secret 9 month relationship with a guy and just moves in with him. Couple days (week or so) later a guy she used to work with kills her on live TV?[DOUBLEPOST=1440602566,1440602543][/DOUBLEPOST]

DarkAudit said:

He made it into a race issue. Accused the reporter of racist comments and upset she filed a complaint with HR about him.

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Ooh. Now THAT I didn't know.

DarkAudit said:

Dude's twitter handle is https://twitter.com/bryce_williams7

And he posted the act to his account. *shudder*

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....aaaand it's gone.

He doesn't seem to be the most stable sort. His Twitter account was full of bragging about being a high end male escort.

So is the HR thing why he was a "former" employee?

Dave said:

Already has been. Also a gun control debate. But this screams jilted lover (or stalker) to me. Girl is in a secret 9 month relationship with a guy and just moves in with him. Couple days (week or so) later a guy she used to work with kills her on live TV?[DOUBLEPOST=1440602566,1440602543][/DOUBLEPOST]

Ooh. Now THAT I didn't know.

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It was on his (now suspended) twitter account, along with his POV of the shootings (which I stopped watching as soon as I saw what they were).

DarkAudit said:

He made it into a race issue. Accused the reporter of racist comments and upset she filed a complaint with HR about him.

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I saw just now. Awww.[DOUBLEPOST=1440602738,1440602675][/DOUBLEPOST]

DarkAudit said:

It was on his (now suspended) twitter account, along with his POV of the shootings (which I stopped watching as soon as I saw what they were).

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Oddly, the video ended with the camera guy and the reporter ducking for cover - she'd been shot at, but was still moving away. I wonder how he managed to not attract attention standing there visibly waving a gun for 10+ seconds.

Bubble181 said:

Oddly, the video ended with the camera guy and the reporter ducking for cover - she'd been shot at, but was still moving away. I wonder how he managed to not attract attention standing there visibly waving a gun for 10+ seconds.

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From what I saw, they were kind of up on a balcony type thing with not many people around. The three victims were not looking at him because they were busy doing the broadcast.

Bubble181 said:

I saw just now. Awww.[DOUBLEPOST=1440602738,1440602675][/DOUBLEPOST]

Oddly, the video ended with the camera guy and the reporter ducking for cover - she'd been shot at, but was still moving away. I wonder how he managed to not attract attention standing there visibly waving a gun for 10+ seconds.

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She and the lady being interviewed were looking at each other and the cameraman was shooting off to the right. I'd imagine you get used to ignoring passersby when you're a field reporter doing fluffy shit like she was for morning news.

His twitter posts before posting the videos. I can confirm they're legit.

The video was pretty horrific, they had nowhere to run.

Bubble181 said:

....aaaand it's gone.

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His facebook (with the video from his point of view) was up until about 10 seconds ago.

Dude was standing there a long time with the gun out but they didn't see him. He shot the reporter first and then the cameraman. His tweets suggest his beef was with the cameraman who complained to HR about him and the reporter, who he said made racist comments. He was pissed that he was fired and she was hired.[DOUBLEPOST=1440603390,1440603185][/DOUBLEPOST]Dude sent police a 23 page fax before he did it. He's now driving in what they believe to be a rented car. So he ditched his car at the airport and then rented one. Dude is doing a good job eluding police. He had this thing planned pretty well.

Dave said:

Dude was standing there a long time with the gun out but they didn't see him. He shot the reporter first and then the cameraman. His tweets suggest his beef was with the cameraman who complained to HR about him and the reporter, who he said made racist comments. He was pissed that he was fired and she was hired.[DOUBLEPOST=1440603390,1440603185][/DOUBLEPOST]Dude sent police a 23 page fax before he did it. He's now driving in what they believe to be a rented car. So he ditched his car at the airport and then rented one. Dude is doing a good job eluding police. He had this thing planned pretty well.

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Except for the whole "positively 100% identified immediately" thing. He can run, but he can't hide. Unless he's already got someone lined up to harbor him, I guess.

Helpful information if you use twitter on the web site:

Thanks, DA.

I wish I knew that an hour ago. At least I stopped his videos before shit went down.

They are now saying that he has shot himself. I hope it's not true, but it fits the MO.

Gutless coward.

GasBandit said:

Except for the whole "positively 100% identified immediately" thing. He can run, but he can't hide. Unless he's already got someone lined up to harbor him, I guess.

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The "sent 23 page fax" thing, once again, screams "sending a message"; not "trying to get away with it". If he wanted to get away with it he wouldn't have shot them on camera and so forth.

Something interesting that I hadn't thought of. He stood there for a while with his gun out and I thought it was weird. But he was waiting for the reporter to be back on camera. He wasn't going to shoot while the cameraman was facing the water park. He wanted her to be shot on the air.

Reported as not dead, but "very critical condition." C'mon docs. Do your thing. Use every resource at your disposal to keep this asswipe around.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/law...86?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WDBJ7

The suspected shooter has been identified as Vester Lee Flanigan, also known as Bryce Williams. He is still alive and is in critical condition. Previously, state police said Flanigan was dead.

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Maybe he'll live to face justice.

DarkAudit said:

Reported as not dead, but "very critical condition." C'mon docs. Do your thing. Use every resource at your disposal to keep this asswipe around.

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Eh. Check his blood group, use every bit of him that's useful to save some lives. Much more sensible and positive than keeping him alive just to give him a life in prison or death penalty. The difference between an organ from someone who's still alive vs someone who's been dead for half an hour is ASTOUNDING in amount of medicine necessary and rejection rates.

Hope he dies. Wasting money on him won't bring anyone back.

The station GM talked about the shooter's time there. It wasn't a pleasant one. Seems the dude would go out of his way to take offense to something coworkers said or did. And when the station finally had enough and sent him packing, he didn't go quietly. Police had to escort him off the property.

That complaint to the EEOC mentioned? Rejected out of hand.

I saw the videos from both the cameraman and the gunman. Disturbing stuff.

This just in: the shooter has died.

His manifesto kind of reminds me of the villain in The Frighteners, talking about topping numbers of other mass murderers.

FYI, folks, the pic on the first page is apparently not at all the right guy.

SpecialKO said:

FYI, folks, the pic on the first page is apparently not at all the right guy.

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"whoops! We shot the wrong guy 'cause we saw his face on Twitter! Sorry!" - is gonna happen one of these days. You just know it.

CNN website lead image photo maintains the pattern of white vs black gunmen

By the way, the shooting took place at a shopping mall that was debuting a new water park and such. This morning, when I googled the site, the website had crashed from what was probably a whole bunch of hits at the same time.

SpecialKO said:

FYI, folks, the pic on the first page is apparently not at all the right guy.

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I was afraid of that when i first ran across that picture (on twitter) early on. I couldn't find any independent verification that the pic was of the shooter, and didn't post it.

A few days ago the news over here was full of the great bravery of three unarmed American servicemen who tackled, and apprehended a heavily armed terrorist on a train in France.

Today we hear of this crime. What a contrast.

I am not qualified to comment on your gun laws, but do you really need to bear arms?

Grytpipe-Thynne said:

I am not qualified to comment on your gun laws, but do you really need to bear arms?

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Yes.

Edit - and I should also add, as is usually necessary in such threads as this, that gun crime in the US is on the downtrend and has been since the 80s, it's just getting a lot more airtime in the world of the 24/7 cable news cycle.

Additionally, not only is the right to keep and bear arms constitutionally guaranteed and indispensable, but changing the law now to ban gun ownership would only disarm the law abiding at this point. The US is a huge nation with vast swaths of undeveloped, unpatrolled territory, much of which is along its borders. The guns are already here and would continue to enter as easily as the drugs currently are that we're spending so much money and blood to try to outlaw. The difference is, the criminals would be armed and the innocents all the more helpless. For example, look at Chicago or DC - two cities with the strictest (and really, to an unconstitutional degree) gun control laws in the country - also have the worst gun crime problems.

So in summary,
1) Yes, the second amendment is arguably the most important in the bill of rights
2) Gun violence is disproportionately portrayed to hook and keep eyeballs on the news because $$$
and
3) Gun control is ineffective in the US.

Grytpipe-Thynne said:

I am not qualified to comment on your gun laws, but do you really need to bear arms?

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I'm not suggesting that we should be required to bear arms, but over here we feel like we should certainly be allowed that as a choice.

--Patrick

So a few things I've learned as I've followed up on the events.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339

He rented his car days ago, leaving his mustang in the parking garage at the airport.

Which means the cops were looking for the wrong car the whole time, which is why they had trouble finding it.

He faxed his manifesto after he shot the reporters. Then he called back later, saying cops were all over the place. So, if they'd had the right vehicle description, they probably would have caught him a lot sooner.

His manifesto talks about being discriminated against for being gay and black, but also praises several mass shooters, like Seung Hui Cho and the Columbine kids. He evidently bought his gun 2 days after the Charlston church shooting with the intention of returning the favor somehow.

He sounds like a nutcase with too much time on his hands (because of no job), stewing in his own nuttiness until he popped.

Brofist is for "spot-on summary", not because I agree with the idiot.

GasBandit said:

The difference is, the criminals would be armed and the innocents all the more helpless. For example, look at Chicago or DC - two cities with the strictest (and really, to an unconstitutional degree) gun control laws in the country - also have the worst gun crime problems.

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Actually, DC and Chicago don't even show up in the Top 10 when you look at crime rates.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

I think the problem here is people see gun control as an "all or nothing" scenario. Either they get to have every gun and ammo type they want or they'll be completely disarmed. Or they adopt a "slippery slope" fallacy wherein they believe more intensive background checks are just a couple steps away from death camps. I don't think anybody's pushing for a complete disarmament.

IronBrig4 said:

Actually, DC and Chicago don't even show up in the Top 10 when you look at crime rates.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

I think the problem here is people see gun control as an "all or nothing" scenario. Either they get to have every gun and ammo type they want or they'll be completely disarmed. Or they adopt a "slippery slope" fallacy wherein they believe more intensive background checks are just a couple steps away from death camps. I don't think anybody's pushing for a complete disarmament.

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Well, the question posed in this thread was "do you guys really need to bear arms?"

Also, your list is violent crime, not necessarily gun crime in specific, which is what I was talking about. Chicago is definitely in the top 10 for gun crime, and DC isn't too far below that.

Trust me, we have this discussion every single time there's another media spotlight on a shooting. It's become a tiresome going-through-the-motions experience.

In this case, the "good guy with a gun" mantra turns into utter bullshit. I haven't seen or gone looking for the gun nut assholes blaming the victims for not returning fire, but I'm certain it's out there.

It's hard to return fire when the first sign something is wrong is you've just been fatally shot. Hell, the first sign the guy was even THERE was you've been fatally shot.

The types who advocate arming everyone and who ridicule gun-free zones as a "target-rich environment" are people I don't want to know, and theirs is a society I want no part of.

DarkAudit said:

In this case, the "good guy with a gun" mantra turns into utter bullshit. I haven't seen or gone looking for the gun nut assholes blaming the victims for not returning fire, but I'm certain it's out there.

It's hard to return fire when the first sign something is wrong is you've just been fatally shot. Hell, the first sign the guy was even THERE was you've been fatally shot.

The types who advocate arming everyone and who ridicule gun-free zones as a "target-rich environment" are people I don't want to know, and theirs is a society I want no part of.

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The "good guy with a gun" scenario does not posit that said armed good guy automatically stops murder from happening like some kind of trump card.

It is also used in the context of an indiscriminate mass shooting, or a prolonged robbery or a hostage situation. This was a meticulously planned murder of two people, with a third unfortunate victim who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Really, given the circumstances, the preparation, and the lack of awareness of his victims, he almost could have succeeded using a knife.

So, no, any of the victims being armed would not have saved them in this circumstance. But don't hand me a tennis racket and tell me it's proof that spaghetti cannot be strained.

You beat me to the point I was wanting to make. Despite his "manifesto" or whatever hearsay pointing towards any motivation regarding the South Carolina shootings, this is just a good old fashioned chicken-shit revenge murder. The only thing making this special is that is occurred on live TV, which was by the killer's design.

Something just occurred to me: how did he know where they'd be there? He'd obviously meticulously planned this and they were the intended targets. But I don't think appearances or interviews like this are widely known to the public, right?

ThatNickGuy said:

Something just occurred to me: how did he know where they'd be there? He'd obviously meticulously planned this and they were the intended targets. But I don't think appearances or interviews like this are widely known to the public, right?

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He probably just followed them out of the studio.

Since he worked in the business and their studio, he likely knew their "formula" for the morning news show, and did what Frank said.

I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but like many, many liberal Americans, I (gasp!) support the second amendment for the reasons for which it was intended. However, I don't think that includes a bunch of idiots with CHLs or open carries in a spree shooting. All that does is make it spree-ier.

ThatNickGuy said:

Something just occurred to me: how did he know where they'd be there? He'd obviously meticulously planned this and they were the intended targets. But I don't think appearances or interviews like this are widely known to the public, right?

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Well, some are, some aren't, but it's never a big secret in any case. I don't know about this specific broadcast (it seems more likely to me that he just followed them from when they left the studio, like Frank said), but for example, when any of my stations are going to be doing a remote broadcast we pre-promote the hell out of it - complete with details about where we'll be, which jock is going to be there, and from what time to what time.

If it's anything like most morning news shows, they probably teased the hell out of it throughout the show. It's a fluff piece - between the first & second weather segments. "Coming up later... Tricia Takanawa is live at the Renaissance fair, but first...."