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Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
So you don't believe in religious freedom, you'd rather force people to conform to your belief system?
I heard third-hand that some 'international human rights group' has crafted a set of 'basic freedoms' which includes forcing churches to drop any restrictions based on gender, sex, etc. I doubt that it amounts to much, but it seems to be part of a general trend.
It's very odd, I think, that people are now considering a reduction in religious freedom to be acceptable, whereas this is one of the primary reasons America was formed - to prevent the government from telling churches what they can and can't believe in.
-Adam
---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------
Also, given the inflammatory title this should probably be in flame wars, not politics.
-Adam
So you don't believe in religious freedom, you'd rather force people to conform to your belief system?
I heard third-hand that some 'international human rights group' has crafted a set of 'basic freedoms' which includes forcing churches to drop any restrictions based on gender, sex, etc. I doubt that it amounts to much, but it seems to be part of a general trend.
It's very odd, I think, that people are now considering a reduction in religious freedom to be acceptable, whereas this is one of the primary reasons America was formed - to prevent the government from telling churches what they can and can't believe in.
-Adam
---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------
Also, given the inflammatory title this should probably be in flame wars, not politics.
-Adam
Dave
Staff member
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
I feel about this like I do the Boy Scouts. They can think anything they like but nobody can force me to think like them.
The ONLY issue I have with this is that discrimination is against US laws and these churches should have to abide by these laws due to their tax exempt status or they should lose said status.
Shit, I think religions should be taxed anyway.
I feel about this like I do the Boy Scouts. They can think anything they like but nobody can force me to think like them.
The ONLY issue I have with this is that discrimination is against US laws and these churches should have to abide by these laws due to their tax exempt status or they should lose said status.
Shit, I think religions should be taxed anyway.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Perhaps, but we realized that SOME reduction in Religious freedom was inevitable right around the time we started killing people for being witches in the US (though I'm not sure if Salem's witch trials were before or after the founding of the country). Some tenants of some religions, such as animal/human sacrifice, drug use, and murdering of heretics, are restricted because of local and federal laws. It's not exactly like it's anything new.
Taxing some religions would be problematic... for instance, how would you tax the Roman Catholic church? It operates out of it's own country. I somehow think it would be bad policy to give a sovereign head of state a bill and tell him to pay up or his followers can't have a place of worship.
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Steven Soderburgin
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
They can think whatever they like, but I think you're being naive if you don't see this as a purely political move that has very little, if anything, to do with actual religious belief systems.
---------- Post added at 08:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------
And Re: the thread title, that's pretty much exactly what the church itself is saying. They're saying, "If you are upset that women and gays can obtain equal station within your church, then come join the Catholic Church because we continue to marginalize gays and women. We'll even make it easier to make the switch and you'll get to keep most of your traditions."
They can think whatever they like, but I think you're being naive if you don't see this as a purely political move that has very little, if anything, to do with actual religious belief systems.
---------- Post added at 08:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------
And Re: the thread title, that's pretty much exactly what the church itself is saying. They're saying, "If you are upset that women and gays can obtain equal station within your church, then come join the Catholic Church because we continue to marginalize gays and women. We'll even make it easier to make the switch and you'll get to keep most of your traditions."
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
That's also because there is very little difference in the actual religious belief systems. Lutherans are the same way. Tend to agree with Catholics on quite a lot of things.
Cajungal
Staff member
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
I'm gonna go ahead and move this as per a request. I was on the fence about it, but the title IS pretty inflammatory, and it could get crazy in here. Sorry if anyone is bugged by it, but at least you'll know who to be mad at.
<----
I'm gonna go ahead and move this as per a request. I was on the fence about it, but the title IS pretty inflammatory, and it could get crazy in here. Sorry if anyone is bugged by it, but at least you'll know who to be mad at.
<----
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
However I would offer a different interpretation:
"If you believe your church is changing according to the precepts of man, rather than staying true to the precepts of God, feel free to join with us in affirming our belief that God created us, Male and Female, for His own purpose."
You don't have to agree with them, but the title of the thread is a direct attack on a particular religion. It does not invite reasoned discussion, but blind attacks on a belief system.
-Adam
I appreciate that you feel this way about the Catholic church and many other religious institutions that have similar restrictions.
However I would offer a different interpretation:
"If you believe your church is changing according to the precepts of man, rather than staying true to the precepts of God, feel free to join with us in affirming our belief that God created us, Male and Female, for His own purpose."
You don't have to agree with them, but the title of the thread is a direct attack on a particular religion. It does not invite reasoned discussion, but blind attacks on a belief system.
-Adam
M
makare
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
There is freedom to practice religion.. not freedom to practice religion without being criticized. That is a mistake alot of people seem to make. You have the right to free speech, doesn't mean people have to like what you say.
There is freedom to practice religion.. not freedom to practice religion without being criticized. That is a mistake alot of people seem to make. You have the right to free speech, doesn't mean people have to like what you say.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Yo, moving this to flame wars is absolute BULLSHIT. You're saying we can't be inflammatory towards public institutions, people, celebrities? There have been no personal attacks in here.
Yo, moving this to flame wars is absolute BULLSHIT. You're saying we can't be inflammatory towards public institutions, people, celebrities? There have been no personal attacks in here.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Does it matter? It still shows up in the new posts link for everyone to see.
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Steven Soderburgin
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Your interpretation is valid, and vastly different from my own. My attacks on belief systems that purposefully and openly seek to marginalize homosexuals and women are anything but "blind" though.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
The opening message is a troll flame.
The opening message is a troll flame.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
From another thread:
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Neither statement is objective, but worse both statements are invitations to attack something that may well be important to many forum members.
-Adam
I'm saying that if you post something that says, "Catholics hate gays and women" it's going to be put in the flame war section just as fast as "Gays hate religion"
Neither statement is objective, but worse both statements are invitations to attack something that may well be important to many forum members.
-Adam
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Steven Soderburgin
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
If I wanted to intentionally start drama, the thread title would've said "Every single Catholic is a fucking bigot" and the body would've included a link to the article and a gif.
If I wanted to intentionally start drama, the thread title would've said "Every single Catholic is a fucking bigot" and the body would've included a link to the article and a gif.
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Steven Soderburgin
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
I didn't say Catholics hate gays and women. I said the CATHOLIC CHURCH hates gays and women. The institution. The organization. The Pope.
Dave
Staff member
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
The Pope - also known as a former Nazi Youth.
I didn't say Catholics hate gays and women. I said the CATHOLIC CHURCH hates gays and women. The institution. The organization. The Pope.[/QUOTE]
The Pope - also known as a former Nazi Youth.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Neither statement is objective, but worse both statements are invitations to attack something that may well be important to many forum members.
-Adam[/QUOTE]
The thread title is not a very liberal translation of what the Pope (head of Catholicism last I heard) is saying and doing.
I'm saying that if you post something that says, "Catholics hate gays and women" it's going to be put in the flame war section just as fast as "Gays hate religion"
Neither statement is objective, but worse both statements are invitations to attack something that may well be important to many forum members.
-Adam[/QUOTE]
The thread title is not a very liberal translation of what the Pope (head of Catholicism last I heard) is saying and doing.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
HOW DARE HE JOIN A MANDATORY ORGANIZATION AS A CHILD!!!!1
Dave
Staff member
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Know anyone who turned them down? I do. They went to jail for it but they chose not to participate. You know, like a religious leader should have done?
HOW DARE HE JOIN A MANDATORY ORGANIZATION AS A CHILD!!!!1[/QUOTE]
Know anyone who turned them down? I do. They went to jail for it but they chose not to participate. You know, like a religious leader should have done?
Cajungal
Staff member
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Yeah, sorry, I thought some people would be upset. :\ But I left the redirected thing up longer than usual, at least. It was difficult to tell how things would go, and so I made a call. Wasn't sure who else was here.
If people are smart enough to click "NEW POST", they'll still find this place and they'll be able to discuss it. But frankly, as serious and kind of hostile things have been around here lately, I think I made the right move. It was a case-by-case kinda thing; I probably wouldn't have moved it on a different week.
So, sorry you're mad but them's the breaks. Enjoy yourselves!
Yeah, sorry, I thought some people would be upset. :\ But I left the redirected thing up longer than usual, at least. It was difficult to tell how things would go, and so I made a call. Wasn't sure who else was here.
If people are smart enough to click "NEW POST", they'll still find this place and they'll be able to discuss it. But frankly, as serious and kind of hostile things have been around here lately, I think I made the right move. It was a case-by-case kinda thing; I probably wouldn't have moved it on a different week.
So, sorry you're mad but them's the breaks. Enjoy yourselves!
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
You can split a hair as finely as you want. If you believe that no one in this forum will take this title as a personal attack on their belief system, then you are ignorant.
If you instead don't care how they take it, and prefer to believe that they should just suck it up, then you are arguing that inflammatory titles attacking homosexuality should not be moved to the flame subforum, even if the poster splits hairs and words it so it's not attacking homosexuals themselves, but the 'greater homosexual movement' or some lame, ignorant attempt at pretense.
-Adam
I didn't say Catholics hate gays and women. I said the CATHOLIC CHURCH hates gays and women. The institution. The organization. The Pope.[/QUOTE]
You can split a hair as finely as you want. If you believe that no one in this forum will take this title as a personal attack on their belief system, then you are ignorant.
If you instead don't care how they take it, and prefer to believe that they should just suck it up, then you are arguing that inflammatory titles attacking homosexuality should not be moved to the flame subforum, even if the poster splits hairs and words it so it's not attacking homosexuals themselves, but the 'greater homosexual movement' or some lame, ignorant attempt at pretense.
-Adam
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Know anyone who turned them down? I do. They went to jail for it but they chose not to participate. You know, like a religious leader should have done?[/QUOTE]
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04-23-new-pope-defied-Nazis_x.htm
He avoided going as much as possible. But went enough to keep the tuition break by being in the mandatory organization.
HOW DARE HE JOIN A MANDATORY ORGANIZATION AS A CHILD!!!!1[/QUOTE]
Know anyone who turned them down? I do. They went to jail for it but they chose not to participate. You know, like a religious leader should have done?[/QUOTE]
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04-23-new-pope-defied-Nazis_x.htm
He avoided going as much as possible. But went enough to keep the tuition break by being in the mandatory organization.
Dave
Staff member
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Know anyone who turned them down? I do. They went to jail for it but they chose not to participate. You know, like a religious leader should have done?[/quote]
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04-23-new-pope-defied-Nazis_x.htm
He avoided going as much as possible. But went enough to keep the tuition break by being in the mandatory organization.[/QUOTE]
Now THAT I didn't know. Interesting. Time to cut him some slack it seems.
HOW DARE HE JOIN A MANDATORY ORGANIZATION AS A CHILD!!!!1[/quote]
Know anyone who turned them down? I do. They went to jail for it but they chose not to participate. You know, like a religious leader should have done?[/quote]
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04-23-new-pope-defied-Nazis_x.htm
He avoided going as much as possible. But went enough to keep the tuition break by being in the mandatory organization.[/QUOTE]
Now THAT I didn't know. Interesting. Time to cut him some slack it seems.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
Women in the clergy, I can see that changing.
But an openly sexually active man serving in the clergy, don't hold your breath.
The current exception is the married Anglican Clergy that have transferred to the Catholic Church. This has been going on for at least a decade.
Women in the clergy, I can see that changing.
But an openly sexually active man serving in the clergy, don't hold your breath.
The current exception is the married Anglican Clergy that have transferred to the Catholic Church. This has been going on for at least a decade.
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Steven Soderburgin
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
I don't care that he is a former Nazi Youth. That doesn't fucking matter. What matters to me is right now, the Pope is actively trying to marginalize and oppress gays and women within the Catholic organization.
And steinman, if someone wants to post those sorts of threads, then I'll call them out as the bigots they are. They're free to do so if that's what they believe, and it's up to the mods if they want to move those threads to the flame wars forum. I'm kind of annoyed that this thread was moved before any personal attacks or arguments were made, or that the thread title just wasn't changed if that's such a big deal, but whatever, ain't no worries about the move. I find it kind of funny, actually.
And anyway, I have a few issues and complaints with the "gay rights movement," as I'm sure many, many Catholics have with the Church. You see, I can separate individual Catholics from the organization of the Catholic Church. Just like with political parties, a person doesn't have to like or agree with every single move or statement made by the group to which they belong.
I don't care that he is a former Nazi Youth. That doesn't fucking matter. What matters to me is right now, the Pope is actively trying to marginalize and oppress gays and women within the Catholic organization.
And steinman, if someone wants to post those sorts of threads, then I'll call them out as the bigots they are. They're free to do so if that's what they believe, and it's up to the mods if they want to move those threads to the flame wars forum. I'm kind of annoyed that this thread was moved before any personal attacks or arguments were made, or that the thread title just wasn't changed if that's such a big deal, but whatever, ain't no worries about the move. I find it kind of funny, actually.
And anyway, I have a few issues and complaints with the "gay rights movement," as I'm sure many, many Catholics have with the Church. You see, I can separate individual Catholics from the organization of the Catholic Church. Just like with political parties, a person doesn't have to like or agree with every single move or statement made by the group to which they belong.
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
The title is inflammatory anyway.
"Hate gays and women in your clergy? Then give Catholicism a try!" would be exactly the same without the inflammation.
The title is inflammatory anyway.
"Hate gays and women in your clergy? Then give Catholicism a try!" would be exactly the same without the inflammation.
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Steven Soderburgin
Hate gays and women? Then give Catholicism a try!
A person can be gay without being sexually active.
- Status