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Norway blast

Jul 22, 2011#1

strawman

There was a blast, possible two, in Oslo, Norway in, around, or near the government buildings. Ongoing coverage at CNN, BBC, etc.

Jul 22, 2011#2

Dave

Someone has also opened fire at a youth camp. The gunman was dressed as a policeman and "several people have been shot".

Norway's 9/11. I can hear it now.
Added at: 11:46
There's a guy on Reddit who is giving live updates on this. http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/iwsj7/huge_explosion_in_downtown_oslo/

Here's what he has so far:

The fuck is this? Any possibility at all of accident? When I heard it I thought it was thunder or an accident at the building site next to me.
edit: Seems that the newspaper VG was hardest hit. It lies close the majority of the government buildings in oslo.
edit2: Lots of shattered windows on a government building
edit3: smoke cloud in the city centre
edit4: Rain until midday sunday and then this, great weekend.
edit5: Live Norwegian News, via Swedish Television in order to get around norway-only block.
edit6: Picture of damage
edit7: Supposedly there was a second explosion 30 minutes after the first (via google-translate), I didn't hear the second one. TV is saying the explosion was from the 4th story.
edit8: BBC article on event
edit9: Supposedly there was a second explosion a few hundred meters away.
edit10: Politician who was close by at time of explosion said he noticed a strong smell of explosives/gunpowder.
edit11: Lots of pictures from state TV's reporting.
edit12: Loop of damage being shown on state TV shows a car that is seriously damaged and flipped.
edit13: Experts on norwegian TV says that it's the political heart of Norway that is damaged. But it occurred on a friday during summer vacation. I just feel that they are already sensationalizing it, but that's just my opinion.
edit14: One person confirmed dead.
edit15: Article in Norwegian with pictures of damage to main government office building
edit16: BBC News stream, Al Jazeera stream
edit17: BBC just zoomed in on smoke, looked like a cloud to me

edit18: 7 patients have arrived at main hospital (ullevål). Main hospital in emergency mode (calling in more employees, making more room for patients).
edit19: I'm starting to doubt edit7 (that there was a second explosion further away), no follow up on the news from it.
edit20: VG confirms that several people are dead
edit21: Dagbladet says police confirm it was a bomb
edit22: Probably a large car-bomb
edit23: Press confrence by Oslo-police in 10 minutes, I'll update. Fire department have stopped their activity, seems like fires are out.
edit24: 9 People now in the hospital, still "several" people dead. Large portions of city centre closed of due to fears that there are more bombs.
edit25: Google Streetview before the explosion, this is the focus of several loops running on the news. Picture of same place after explosion
edit26: Press conference was short and improvised. Main target was oil and energy department. He confirmed that the prime minister was safe. He would not comment on the oil or justice minister, and said "We know that people are injured, but not who"
edit27: Several cars being towed and pushed away from the scene, one car significantly more damaged than others. Extremely likely it was a car bomb but no confirmation yet. More official press-conference soon.
edit28: Several large commuter hotspots closed. Oslo airport working as normal, but heightened security with real police in addition to the normal G4S posers. From the hospital 10 patients, 9 seriously hurt. They think all of the most seriously injured are there. They can not comment on deaths, since deaths do not arrive at the hospital. Oslo Police press conference soon.
edit29: Video of damage Watch for that car around 0:59
edit30: Paraphrased the press confrence: Explosion 15:26, two confirmed dead, 15 injured. Police have secured the scene, technicians (?), bomb squad, firemen at scene. All available police at work, policemen have their vacation cut short. Police urge the public to leave Oslo City until police have full control over situation. Police do not have a motive to go by despite all of the speculation. One or more bombs, no warning before attack, possibility of car used [I've been thinking this for a long time, no confirmation of car bomb], TV2 News station evacuated due to package. Everything that the police considers a target is evacuated. Too early to consider link to terror-suspect-case earlier in the year. 8001502800 is the hot-line for victims and their families etc. Police want tips, I missed the number. Police urge people to go home and avoid large crowds [I think it's due to fear of other bombs] The situation is not over, and the police are considering it as current/happening now That's basically it. Another press conference in about an hours. edit30b: Via nycerene: >It's (+47) 815 02 800, and the number for witnesses is (+47) 22 66 99 66.
edit31: Also today, a shooting at a summercamp for the youth section of the Labour party. Large strain on the police departments of south-eastern norway today. The police was not willing to comment on a link beyond that.Aftenposten via Google-Translate
edit32: Interview with PM: thinking about victims copypasta, in contact with defence minister, justice minister. the cabinets emergency council is assembeled. Not willing to speculate on motive, he will update as soon as he knows more. [So the justice and defence minister are also confirmed alive, he did not comment on oil minister.]
edit33: More info on the summer camp shooting, several people injured. Speculation that it is a coordinated attack. Little information from the camp. The camp is the annual Youth Labour Party summercamp. The Labour party is the major player in the coalation government of norway which has been in power since 2005 (?). The other two parties are SP (centrist farmer party) and SV (leftist socialist).
Police confirm at least one shot, it was a man dressed as a police officer that shot.
edit34: Wikipedia article on the explosion, thanks to Feuraeu
edit35: Mini press conference by police. *There are dead people in the buildings, they have been declared dead and left by rescue personnel who are looking for the living. No comment on how many people are dead. Few leads in the rest of the city center, nothing they want to comment on. No longer fear of more explosions by police. *
edit36: Regarding the shooting, there is a police helicopter over the island where the camp is. Many campers evacuated, many people ran to swim away. A boat with a swat team recently left in a boat towards the islands. Shots still heard from the island. Reporter: There's a little war out there

Jul 22, 2011#3

Dave

In the last week we've had 106 visits from Norway.

To our Norwegian Halforumites - STAY SAFE!

Jul 22, 2011#4

Adammon

One of the safest places in the world in my eyes. I wonder which Amish sect is going to take responsibility for this.

Jul 22, 2011#5

Espy

Adammon said:
I wonder which Amish sect is going to take responsibility for this.

What?

Jul 22, 2011#6

North_Ranger

Oh bloody hell...

I'm torn between shock for what has happened and disgust over the fact that there's bound to be people who are just waiting to use this as an excuse in their own political agenda.

Yes, I'm a cynic.

But to any Norwegian Halforumites about... Stay strong, lads and lasses.

Jul 22, 2011#7

Vrii

Sounds like there's a possibility of 20+ people killed at the camp. "Bodies floating in the water" is the description I'm seeing.

This is just...I hope it's being exaggerated.

Jul 22, 2011#8

Adammon

Espy said:
What?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?_r=2&hp

A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referred to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed.

Bolded for emphasis. I suspect they're full of shit but you never know.

Jul 22, 2011#9

drifter

Adammon said:
I wonder which Amish sect is going to take responsibility for this.

Jul 22, 2011#10

Adammon

It's funny if I say Amish. If I say Muslim, I'm racist.

Jul 22, 2011#11

Chad Sexington

Vrii said:
Sounds like there's a possibility of 20+ people killed at the camp. "Bodies floating in the water" is the description I'm seeing.

This is just...I hope it's being exaggerated.

I saw some tweeted photos. There are definitely bodies in the water, assuming the photos aren't fakes or from another incident.

Jul 22, 2011#12

strawman

Adammon said:
Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami ... issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack... The message said the attack was a response to ... insults to the Prophet Muhammad

It's been over 5 years, but sometimes revenge takes that long:

Cartoons in Danish and Norwegian newspapers depicting the prophet Muhammad in unflattering poses... (circa 2006)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001316.html

It started in September 2005 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy and spread through Europe.

Further, the Danish paper that printed it first issued an apology for offense, while still asserting the right to publish the drawings. It doesn't appear that those newspapers that reprinted them elsewhere, including Norway, issued any sort of apology, and in fact they published them intentionally to assert their right of free speech in publishing potentially offensive material.

There was also an arrest associated with an attack planned in Norway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllan...qi_terrorist_in_Norway_suspect_planned_attack

Jul 22, 2011#13

@Li3n

Adammon said:
It's funny if I say Amish. If I say Muslim, I'm racist.

Also, wrong, as extremists are not a sect...

Jul 22, 2011#14

Adammon

@Li3n said:
Also, wrong, as extremists are not a sect...

What?

Jul 22, 2011#15

Frankie Williamson

@Li3n said:
Also, wrong, as extremists are not a sect...

That's....generally exactly what they are.

Jul 22, 2011#16

@Li3n

Frankie Williamson said:
That's....generally exactly what they are.

No, a sect really needs to have some new beliefs/philosophy... not simply take the normal beliefs to ridiculous extremes...

EDIT: I meant it in the way that most of the Muslim extremists are not a Muslim sect, like say the Branch Davidians where an extremist sect, but they're more along the lines of a catholic that thinks killing non-christians (crusades style) is fine...

Jul 22, 2011#17

Frankie Williamson

A sect can also be a splinter group of a larger organization, their beliefs do not need to be entirely new or different.

Jul 22, 2011#18

@Li3n

Yeah, but when talking about beliefs it tends to get a bit more complicated... like if you where to separate from teh Roman Catholics you'd immediately no longer recognize the Pope etc...

Anyway:

2056:
The foreign minister has also confirmed that the man arrested following the shooting on the island is Caucasian.

Added at: 21:12
Wow, might actually have been just the work of one guy:

2100:
Acting Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim in Oslo says the shooter had also been spotted in the capital prior to the explosions.

Jul 22, 2011#19

Gared

There are also reports of a mysterious package near the rail line to the airport. Airport express service has been halted while the package is investigated by police officials, but apparently they are having trouble locating the package.

Jul 22, 2011#20

strawman

Gared said:
they are having trouble locating the package.

That's what she said.

Jul 22, 2011#21

Adammon

stienman said:
That's what she said.

Sounds like TNG's prom night, amirite?

Jul 22, 2011#22

DarkAudit

These Islamist terror groups will claim to have dealt it no matter who smelt it.

Sky news reporting man in custody is a right-wing nut, not Muslim.

Jul 22, 2011#23

Dave

Holy fuck. Numbers are in and confirmed. 7 killed in the blast. The shooting at the kid's camp? 80 dead. I'm so fucking glad this guy didn't kill himself.

Jul 22, 2011#24

Frankie Williamson

Holy Christ.

Jul 22, 2011#25

Dave

The blast was nothing more than a diversion and excuse to get on the island, it seems. This guy had it all worked out. He called the kids over to him to give them information about the bombing. Since he was dressed as a policeman they came willingly. Then he opened fire on them with automatic weapons, going first for those on land and then picking off those who tried to swim away.

The camp had kids ages 14-18, boys and girls.

Jul 22, 2011#26

Officer_Charon

Jesus... this dude had best get the utmost maximum that Norway can provide...

Jul 22, 2011#27

AshburnerX

Officer_Charon said:
Jesus... this dude had best get the utmost maximum that Norway can provide...

I think Life is the most any EU country can give.

Jul 22, 2011#28

strawman

Ugh. He decided the best way to politically ruin a party was to destroy a portion of its next generation?

80 people is not insignificant in a country with only 5 million citizens. Scale it up to the US population (one death per 62,500 people) and you reach 5,000 - this is more per-capita deaths per terrorist act than our own 9/11. Not only that, but these were youth - as bad as 9/11 was, we would have been so much more incensed if they had succeeded in killing 3,000 high school students.

Unfortunately Norway doesn't have the death penalty, although they are, to some degree, on the fence about it. They fought against a European-wide ban on the death penalty, and 1 in 4 Norwegians think the death penalty is a reasonable punishment for the most egregious crimes.

The worst he can get is life in prison, and I see no reason why he won't get it.

Jul 22, 2011#29

drifter

Max sentence in Norway is 21 years, isn't it?

Jul 22, 2011#30

sixpackshaker

drifter said:
Max sentence in Norway is 21 years, isn't it?

Hopefully for each count.

Jul 22, 2011#31

Vrii

I don't even have words for this. There are pictures circulating that are just sickening. Killing 80 people anywhere, any time is bad enough, but to arrange an opportunity like this to target kids is beyond what I can express.

Jul 23, 2011#32

strawman

Leaks suggest his name is Anders Behring Breivik. A google search shows a lot of people have already done a lot of research on him. Interestingly he only started a facebook and twitter page about a month ago
Added at: 01:23

drifter said:
Max sentence in Norway is 21 years, isn't it?

Oh wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway

That's very interesting.

Kill someone, get out as soon as 7 years later. Your life is only worth 7 years of imprisonment, should somone get pissed at you.

Jul 23, 2011#33

Charlie Don't Surf

AshburnerX said:
I think Life is the most any EU country can give.

Yes, the first world is quite civilized compared to the United States and the rest of the third-world.

I wonder if any of my facebook friends blaming this on Al Queda will even bother posting a mea culpa.

Jul 23, 2011#34

strawman

Charlie Don't Surf said:
the first world is quite civilized compared to the United States

Jul 23, 2011#35

North_Ranger

Huh... that's a kick to the teeth for some people. The Norwegian police refuses to comment on any political sympathies of Breivik (the local media called him "a right-wing extremist"), but they do mention him being a "Christian extremist". I'd give you the link, but the article's in Finnish...

And yes, they're going for the 21-year sentence, no question about it.
Added at: 11:48
Oh crap... He plays World of Warcraft, and watches True Blood and Dexter (again, Finnish article).

Jul 23, 2011#36

DarkAudit

stienman said:

This. double and triple this.

Jul 23, 2011#37

Denbrought

This is all a damn shame, sigh. At least no government official was harmed, that I know of, that would've been the icing on the shit cake.
Now I just hope Norway doesn't go post-9/11 too hard.

North_Ranger said:
Oh crap... He plays World of Warcraft, and watches True Blood and Dexter (again, Finnish article).

Perkele. Tomorrow, we'll find out he played D&D, read Tolkien, and recycled.

Jul 23, 2011#38

Espy

Just caught up with this... holy crap... glad they got the guy.

Jul 24, 2011#39

@Li3n

Guy says he acted alone: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14266815

I wonder how he got that much explosives...

Jul 24, 2011#40

LordRendar

Well,he had years of planning and who knows what a crazy,albeit patient,mind can whip up in that time.

Jul 24, 2011#41

Dave

Dude's been planning for years, all right.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1UPMWXTEq9DqhcWBXXRZhMwqDuYsiMahzVIpeK6s9-j0&pli=1

Jul 24, 2011#42

@Li3n

I just bought Modern Warfare 2, the game. It is probably the best military simulator out there

Jul 24, 2011#43

North_Ranger

Couldn't find this in English, so hears a quick translation of a small Finnish article I just came across:

Heroic Couple Saves Dozens of Campers

Hege Dalen and Toril Hansen saved youngsters near Utöya.

Hege Dalen and her partner Toril Hansen were having dinner at the camping ground opposite Utöya, when they heard gunfire and screams coming from the island.

"The smell of gunpowder started to waft from the island. Then we heard terrible screams. We saw how young people were running in panic into the lake", Dalen told Helsingin Sanomat.

The couple wasted no time and pushed their boat into the Tyrifjorden Lake.

Many people near the island also did the same.

Dalen and Hansen drove their boat to the island, picked up wounded and shocked young people from the water and transported them across to the mainland. From time to time bullets hit the water right next to their boat.

Because they couldn't fit all of the people aboard at once, they made the trip next to the island four times.

They may have saved up to 40 people from the killer.

"We didn't sleep a wink last night. Today we've been together and talking about what happened", Dalen says.

Jul 24, 2011#44

@Li3n

North_Ranger said:
Couldn't find this in English,

And you probably never will, because it's not a terrorist attack any more: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/23/nyt/index.html

Jul 24, 2011#45

General Specific

I read through some of the manifesto crap that was posted and it became clear immediately that this man; no, I refuse to label him a man for planning and carrying out this act; this monster is an elitist, racist, self-important asshole. Any claim that he did this for a certain cause is bullshit. No cause or group will be bolstered by the murder of children. He did this for himself only. He wanted to be remembered and now, sadly, he will be.

Fortunately, we have people like the couple and the others in NR's story that will head into unknown danger to help fellow humans. They are truly heroes.

Jul 24, 2011#46

strawman

@Li3n said:
Guy says he acted alone: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14266815

I wonder how he got that much explosives...

Early reports indicate he worked for a nursery/farm/garden or something of the sort, where fertilizer (ie, bomb compounds) would be readily available.

Jul 24, 2011#47

@Li3n

stienman said:
Early reports indicate he worked for a nursery/farm/garden or something of the sort, where fertilizer (ie, bomb compounds) would be readily available.

The blog/diary stuff Dave posted actually explains it in detail...

Jul 24, 2011#48

North_Ranger

stienman said:
Early reports indicate he worked for a nursery/farm/garden or something of the sort, where fertilizer (ie, bomb compounds) would be readily available.

A farm, Stienman. A farm in eastern Norway. The articles and news I've read and heard indicate that he ordered several tons of nitrate-rich fertilizer that could be used to manufacture bombs.

As for the use of the word 'terrorism', it was somewhat painful for me to read the morning papers yesterday. By morning the Norwegian police had arrested Breivik and ruled out the possibility of Islamic extremists, yet the morning papers - printed some hours before the press release about Breivik and his motives - were all about the attacks likely being committed by Muslim terrorists. Granted, Abu Sulaiman, a relatively well-known blogger with connections to the Al-Qaeda, did hail this as the beginning of a new time of terror, and there was a terrorist group who said they did it. All before Breivik was revealed, of course.

As a bit of a devil's advocate, I have to agree with some of the experts: the likes of Abu Sulaiman saw an opportunity and took it, using the Oslo bombings as an excuse to make threats and demand the withdrawal of Nordic peacekeepers from Afghanistan (Finnish peacekeepers included, stationed in Mazar-i-Sharif) and trying to make the transition from peacekeepers to Afghan military as difficult as possible. That, however, does not excuse some of the reactions by the press and politicians - including the Finnish ambassador to Norway, who apparently claimed having been told where the "Muslim bombers" were originally from. At least a lot of the papers today had the balls to clarify the events this morning and giving space to columnists who challenged this kind of idea that you can't speak of terrorism if it isn't done by Muslims.

I'm still hoping that some of the more vocal right-wing parties in my country have the common decency to keep their mouths shut, though... The True Finns and the Christian Democrats would have had a field day if the events in Norway had indeed been committed by Muslim terrorists. The manifesto might be a bit tricky, though; Breivik actually mentioned a True Finn MP, Jussi Halla-aho, who a few years back was well-known for anti-multicultural, anti-Muslim statements in his blogs and writings - and is generally considered the 'heir apparent' in the True Finn Party.

Jul 24, 2011#49

@Li3n

An article about it on kotaku of all places: http://kotaku.com/5824147/oslo-terr...raining+simulation-world-of-warcraft-as-cover

Seriously, MW2 as a simulator... next time someone will talk about how NFS is a great simulator for driving a getaway car...

But none of the big networks seems to have started with any of this yet... maybe they realise it would be in bad taste...

Jul 24, 2011#50

Denbrought

@Li3n said:
Seriously, MW2 as a simulator... next time someone will talk about how NFS is a great simulator for driving a getaway car...

Seriously, did nobody tell him about the ArmA series, or SOCOM?

Jul 24, 2011#51

Cajungal

God bless all the people who went towards the danger to help. Their courage is admirable.

Jul 24, 2011#52

Adammon

I hope the friends he writes about in his manifesto come out and publicly denigrate this asshole. The fact that he thinks anyone would consider the massacre of children a 'positive thing' just blows my mind.

Jul 25, 2011#53

strawman

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-to-wear-uniform-at-court-lawyer-claims.html

"He has two wishes: the first is that there is a public hearing and the second is that he is allowed to wear a uniform," Geir Lippestad told the NRK television channel late Sunday.
"I don't know what uniform," he said, adding that the 32-year-old wanted to explain why he unleashed the carnage and "wants to do it publicly".

Dude kills a bunch of people, and then wants us to build a grandstand for him, and allow him to dress up as though he held some official status of some sort?

Give him a closed hearing in an orange jumpsuit like the criminal he is. Don't give him the attention he so desperately craves.

Send a message. "We are not interested in hearing the rantings of a murderer."

But the press and public will eat it up if such a forum is provided for him.

Jul 25, 2011#54

@Li3n

For all the ideology bluster in the end they're all just attention whores...

Jul 25, 2011#55

@Li3n

Jul 25, 2011#56

DarkAudit

Hearing is to be closed.

If we can't have this useless shit stomped to death by an elephant, the next best thing is to lock him up in absolute isolation. Let him not see or hear another living thing for the rest of his days. No radio, no TV, no news. Even light should be a privilege denied him.

Jul 25, 2011#57

@Li3n

So, a local radio just said something about the guy saying he did it because of what happened with the military intervention in the former Yugoslav states... if it's not just a rumour then this guy's definitely an attention whore...

Jul 25, 2011#58

Overflight

DarkAudit said:
Hearing is to be closed.

If we can't have this useless shit stomped to death by an elephant, the next best thing is to lock him up in absolute isolation. Let him not see or hear another living thing for the rest of his days. No radio, no TV, no news. Even light should be a privilege denied him.

From what I heard Norway's maximum penalty is 21 years in prison. However, they can also extend the sentence 5 years as many times as they want if the authorities decide the guy is "too dangerous to be released", so...

Jul 25, 2011#59

@Li3n

Glenn Beck is still an awful human being: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006

Jul 25, 2011#60

North_Ranger

@Li3n said:
Glenn Beck is still an awful human being: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006

Holy fucking hell... I think you just insulted all awful human beings by saying they're like Glenn Beck. Most awful human beings still retain some shred of human dignity...

Jul 25, 2011#61

Allen who is Quiet

:|

Glenn Beck can go fuck himself.

Jul 25, 2011#62

drifter

Just this month a political group started by Glenn Beck also held a summer kids camp where they could learn "the principles of liberty, free markets, and limited government."

I'm going to guess this will go unmentioned by Mr. Beck.

Jul 25, 2011#63

Espy

drifter said:
Just this month a political group started by Glenn Beck also held a summer kids camp where they could learn "the principles of liberty, free markets, and limited government."

I'm going to guess this will go unmentioned by Mr. Beck.

Jul 25, 2011#64

Jay

My prayers go out to the families who lost loved ones in these senseless acts. No one deserves to be affected as such by this insanity especially in a beautiful country like Norway. On my cruise I had the pleasure of being assigned seating for my evening meals with a couple from Norway and they were great people. They were absolutely appalled by the news I gave them a few nights ago. They made calls as they had a nephew who they thought may have been in the camp who thankfully wasn't... because he got mono.

Jul 25, 2011#65

strawman

So you could say he got the kiss of life?

Jul 25, 2011#66

Chad Sexington

My friend left Norway like a week before this. She wasn't in Oslo, but man, that's crazy.

Jul 26, 2011#67

North_Ranger

Anonymous has declared war on Anders Breivik and his manifesto, in an effort to take away one of Breivik's objectives, namely people reading his manifesto. Apparently the Operation Unmanifest means taking the manifesto and cutting bits out, putting stupid jokes in and photoshopping the pictures included, so as to "make Anders become a joke, such that nobody will take him seriously anymore".

While I do believe humour is a good way to take away the power of fanatics, despots and assholes, a not-so-diminutive part of me feels like this isn't quite the way to go about it. It's part of this whole "TERRORISM!" shabang: before Breivik's name came out, everyone was sure this was an act of terrorism by Muslim extremists. But now, many people seem unwilling to call this terrorism anymore and just think it was just some lone nutbag who was likely mentally unstable, too.

One columnist put it quite nicely: "Why is it that we ask about Breivik's mental stability, but not of that of al-Qaeda bombers?". I guess it's easier to discredit Breivik as just a solitary douchebag who's not playing with a full deck than to think him clinically sane (I say 'clinically' because this kind of wholesale massacre goes against any definition of sanity I have) - and therefore face the possibility that there might be more people like him about. Hannu Lauerma, the director of the Finnish Prison Psychiatric Care, actually considered Breivik's case in a Finnish article recently, seeing no over signs of mental illness, but considering the possibility that Breivik has a severely pathological personality:
- He spent a long time planning the attacks.
- He was active in local politics and was able to maintain a career and his own business.
- He had a state-issued firearms license.
- Like a terrorist, he operated with precision and efficiency when carrying out his attack.

Of course, it's not until that Breivik goes through a psychological profile in Norway that they can decide if he will be tried or sent to a mental institute. But as Lauerma points out, the above are signs of a person acting in complete knowledge of what he was doing, not the actions of a raving lunatic. Even if (and hopefully when) Breivik gets the maximum penalty of twenty-one years, they're still likely going to keep him in... what is the word... forced psychiatric treatment? I don't know the proper translation of the top of my hat... In any case, Breivik's sentence can end, yes, but if he is considered a threat to the society, he will remain behind bars as long as the doctors treating him see fit. Probably for the rest of his life.

Jul 26, 2011#68

David

I choose not to click that Glenn Beck link. In fact, I deny Glenn Beck's existence. Glenn who?

Jul 26, 2011#69

North_Ranger

David said:
I choose not to click that Glenn Beck link. In fact, I deny Glenn Beck's existence. Glenn who?

I do the same thing when people keep mentioning a movie version of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Jul 26, 2011#70

@Li3n

North_Ranger said:
Anonymous has declared war on Anders Breivik and his manifesto, in an effort to take away one of Breivik's objectives, namely people reading his manifesto. Apparently the Operation Unmanifest means taking the manifesto and cutting bits out, putting stupid jokes in and photoshopping the pictures included, so as to "make Anders become a joke, such that nobody will take him seriously anymore".

While I do believe humour is a good way to take away the power of fanatics, despots and assholes, a not-so-diminutive part of me feels like this isn't quite the way to go about it. It's part of this whole "TERRORISM!" shabang: before Breivik's name came out, everyone was sure this was an act of terrorism by Muslim extremists. But now, many people seem unwilling to call this terrorism anymore and just think it was just some lone nutbag who was likely mentally unstable, too.

I'd rather they do the same to all of them... maybe more people will realise that the terrorists they're so scared of aren't that much of a threat they're made out to be...

Jul 27, 2011#71

@Li3n

And it's time i go to Norway and get myself arrested: http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html

Well ok, no PC's, and i needs me my netcrack...

Oh, and O'Reilly might not be Beck, but he's sure a hypocrite: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/26/bill-oreilly-media-breivik-christian_n_909498.html

Jul 27, 2011#72

Cajungal

I can't believe I just read that. No, no, I can... I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really want Bill O' Reilly to be struck mute and unable to write, sign, or blink in morse code.

Jul 27, 2011#73

General Specific

Make sure no one tells O'Reilly about the Crusades or the inquisition

Jul 27, 2011#74

Frankie Williamson

It's a pretty hilarious reaction of those who've been demonizing all muslims since 9/11.

Jul 27, 2011#75

Chibibar

I hope this guy is denied any access to the outside world. He does not need to be remembered, martyr or iconize.

Jul 27, 2011#76

Null

This monster should be labeled a terrorist, because that is a label not restricted to any race or religion or political belief. People used to know that - the IRA, Tamil Tigers, Aum Shinrikyo / Aleph, Mau Mau, and FARC, while wildly different in ethnicity, religion, and cause, are all united in that they use violence and terror as their methodology the same as the boogeyman of Al'Queda.

Jul 28, 2011#77

@Li3n

General Specific said:
Make sure no one tells O'Reilly about the Crusades or the inquisition

Dude, those weren't REAL Christians...

Null said:
are all united in that they use violence and terror against civilians as their methodology the same as the boogeyman of Al'Queda.

Fixed.

Jul 28, 2011#78

North_Ranger

@Li3n said:
Dude, those weren't REAL Christians...

Unfortunately that's what Päivi Räsänen, the head of the Christian Democratic Party here in Finland, keeps saying about Breivik, too. That Breivik who called himself a Christian extremist is not a Christian extremist, and therefore the Oslo and Utöya attacks have nothing to do with religion.

Oh, and because of the Oslo and Utöya attacks we should put more resources into curtailing extremist movements, she adds. Real ones, like those pesky muslims and such...

I think Bill O'Reilly would like to have her as his bride.

Jul 28, 2011#79

@Li3n

You know someone should follow these people around and pull out one of those giant cartoon signs with a fallacy on each one and pull them out when they use one as an argument... you'd pay them 1$ for each one... they'd be rich in no time...

Of course, it's the lack of business cards with Jesus on it:

I guess calling yourself a crusader just isn't enough these days.

Jul 28, 2011#80

Chibibar

I don't approve of wars since civilians are usually the victim of such attacks, BUT the convention of wars TRY to keep the battle against the soldiers of nations. Wars sometimes are necessary evil when diplomacy fails.

But when people or an organization target directly at civilians (men, women or children) in their fight, that is a whole different ball game. I personally feel that these people should NOT be given any media attention at all (which is hard to do since it sells paper/news/feed whatever) but as a society, we should exercise such option to these scums. Giving them the attention only help promote their message to the world, instead, they should be shut off from the world (media wise) from their crimes.

Jul 28, 2011#81

@Li3n

Chibibar said:
I don't approve of wars since civilians are usually the victim of such attacks, BUT the convention of wars TRY to keep the battle against the soldiers of nations.

Geneva Convention - 1949 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I

One must not forget, those conventions aren't that old.

Chibibar said:
Giving them the attention only help promote their message to the world, instead, they should be shut off from the world (media wise) from their crimes.

Hushing them up just makes it seem like they had something worth hushing up to say...

Ridicule is still the best way to deal with attention whores imo...

Jul 29, 2011#82

Officer_Charon

Actually, ignoring attention whores would be the best way to handle them. By ridiculing them, they're STILL getting their name out there... which is all they want.

Jul 29, 2011#83

CrimsonSoul

I still like my idea of everyone like the Norway guy and the fort hood shooter should be found too crazy to stand trail and be made to live in s mental institution on zombie pills for the rest of their life

Jul 31, 2011#84

Adammon

CrimsonSoul said:
I still like my idea of everyone like the Norway guy and the fort hood shooter should be found too crazy to stand trail and be made to live in s mental institution on zombie pills for the rest of their life

No no, you want them aware of everything while living there. That's the punishment - complete and utter awareness but an inability to do anything about it.

Jul 31, 2011#85

Espy

CrimsonSoul said:
I still like my idea of the Norway guy and the fort hood shooter made to live in room together) for the rest of their life

After a little creative editing... Now that I can get behind. It'll be a real life odd couple!

Aug 1, 2011#86

@Li3n

Officer_Charon said:
Actually, ignoring attention whores would be the best way to handle them. By ridiculing them, they're STILL getting their name out there... which is all they want.

The problem with ignoring them is that for it to actually be ignoring them then it would require censorship...

Apr 16, 2012#87

redthirtyone

Well to necro this from last summer:

Norway mass murder suspect claims self-defense

I uh, well, I guess it lends to insanity in the long run. Megalomaniac is a form of insanity right?

Apr 17, 2012#88

North_Ranger

If my reading on the matter is correct, he wants to appear as a legitimate anti-Islamic fighter in defense of Europe. At least according to the latest, more detailed psych evaluation he was not psychotic when he went and killed all those people. I mean, if he was crazy, nobody would listen to him. But if he is "sane" (as much as a 77-person-killing man can be), he will get his moment in the court to rant about multiculturalism.

I actually feel sympathy for his lawyer, Geir Lippestad. They did an article of him recently in my morning paper, and he seemed like a genuinely good, liberal-minded person who isn't after the glory in defending Breivik. More like he believes in a lawful, democratic society in which even people like Breivik deserve a fair trial. Not that he's not feeling the impact of all this: I think the article quoted him saying he feels like he has lost his soul, and hopes that once the trial is over, it will come back to him.

I also applaud the Norwegian response to this whole tragedy. From the article:

"I think that one of the main messages from Norway after the tragedy ... was that we were going to protect our democracy. And part of our democracy is the divisions of responsibilities between the government and the courts. It's up to the courts to decide whether this man is going to be sentenced or not, whether he is insane or not. It's not a question which is going to be decided by politicians. That's part of our democratic society," [Norwegian Prime Minister] Stoltenberg said.

Tore Bjorgo, a terror expert and professor at Norwegian Police University College, said Breivik appears to be overly concerned about his self-image and sees himself in the role of a "fantastic, great person who will save Europe."

"It's we who should decide what kind of a society we want; it's not the terrorists," he said. "And the logic of terrorism is to try to provoke responses to get people to act in ways the terrorists want, and it was important that we didn't do that. We didn't go down that road, and that was, I think, a big victory."

Apr 17, 2012#89

Dave

He also said today that he'd do it again if he had the chance.

Apr 17, 2012#90

LordRendar

And for other people to do the same.He is scum and I hope he will be locked away for the rest of his life.After due process ofcourse.

Apr 17, 2012#91

sixpackshaker

Dave said:
He also said today that he'd do it again if he had the chance.

That type of attitude will not be helpful at his parole hearings.

Apr 18, 2012#92

General Specific

At this point he'll likely be kept under lock and key for the rest of his life even if for his own safety. I can imagine he'd suddenly become extremely accident prone were he to ever be released.

Apr 19, 2012#93

North_Ranger

General Specific said:
At this point he'll likely be kept under lock and key for the rest of his life even if for his own safety. I can imagine he'd suddenly become extremely accident prone were he to ever be released.

You make it sound like every Norwegian is going to jump his ass if he ever gets out of prison.

Dude, you're talking about Norway, not the parts of the United States where they greet you with banjo music and a hard buggering.

Apr 19, 2012#94

LordRendar

He probably talkig about the hundred of family members out for revenge.

Apr 19, 2012#95

LittleSin

North_Ranger said:
You make it sound like every Norwegian is going to jump his ass if he ever gets out of prison.

Dude, you're talking about Norway, not the parts of the United States where they greet you with banjo music and a hard buggering.

How about the black metal dudes? Would they go after him?

Perhaps they would worship him.

Apr 19, 2012#96

sixpackshaker

North_Ranger said:
... greet you with banjo music and a hard buggering.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

OR

Sounds like Nick's Prom Night.

Apr 22, 2012#97

General Specific

North_Ranger said:
You make it sound like every Norwegian is going to jump his ass if he ever gets out of prison.

Dude, you're talking about Norway, not the parts of the United States where they greet you with banjo music and a hard buggering.

I wasn't meaning every Norwegian, but I think there'd be a few that would see to his life outside being rather unpleasant.

Aug 25, 2012#98

North_Ranger

Breivik ruled "sane", goes to prison.

Aug 25, 2012#99

bhamv3

To paraphrase what @lien said, damn I wanna go to prison in Norway. You know what I have to pay to have that sort of nice (if slightly small) room, a flat screen TV, access to healthcare, indoor and outdoor recreation facilities, education and training, and a really nice view outside my window? This guy's going to get it all for free for the next 21 years.

Still though... no net access. That's a minus.

Aug 25, 2012#100

North_Ranger

bhamv3 said:
To paraphrase what @lien said, damn I wanna go to prison in Norway. You know what I have to pay to have that sort of nice (if slightly small) room, a flat screen TV, access to healthcare, indoor and outdoor recreation facilities, education and training, and a really nice view outside my window? This guy's going to get it all for free for the next 21 years.

Still though... no net access. That's a minus.

Count how many times a week you go out. To eat out, to see a movie, to meet friends, to see new places...

Then come back and tell how sweet prison life sounds like.

Aug 25, 2012#101

bhamv3

North_Ranger said:
Count how many times a week you go out. To eat out, to see a movie, to meet friends, to see new places...

Then come back and tell how sweet prison life sounds like.

I'm a shameless otaku though. I don't go out unless I have to. My record, back when I had a flatmate to do all the grocery shopping, was ten weeks without leaving our front door.

Aug 25, 2012#102

Frank

bhamv3 said:
I'm a shameless otaku though. I don't go out unless I have to. My record, back when I had a flatmate to do all the grocery shopping, was ten weeks without leaving our front door.

....Jesus.

Aug 25, 2012#103

AshburnerX

I'm a recluse with whose had an anxiety disorder since the start of high school. Before I started volunteering, I easily had bhamv beat by full months. I assure you, some people would never leave their houses if they didn't have to eat.

Nov 9, 2012#104

bhamv3

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20270325

The Norwegian convicted of the massacre of 77 people last year has said he is being held in "inhumane" conditions.

Anders Behring Breivik complained in a letter to the prison service that his coffee is served cold, he does not have enough butter for his bread, and he is not allowed moisturiser.

Shut the hell up, you tool.

Nov 9, 2012#105

Cajungal

bhamv3 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20270325

Shut the hell up, you tool.

I read this today. Ridiculous.

Nov 9, 2012#106

sixpackshaker

Bring him to a High Security Prison here in Texas. That'll shut him up.

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