not so serious but I want to rant II: Redemption

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Annoyance: Amnesty International ordered several hundred dollars of coffee and baked goods from us for an event, which is awesome. However when they paid they tipped my employees... zip. The event they were holding? A documentary about making sure people are treated with respect and equality in the coffee industry.

strawman · Mar 10, 2011

They were probably pissed you didn't give it to them for free because they are Amnesty International, after all. It's interesting the sense of entitlement non profit and charity organizations exhibit.

makare · Mar 10, 2011

I didn't realize it was expected to tip servers in that kind of situation.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

They aren't tipping servers. It's a coffeeshop/bakery so they would be tipping the folks who made their drinks and food. They don't have to tip of course, it's not required even though it's on the credit card slip they sign as an option, but it's kind of generally an accepted thing to tip for large orders that require a lot of time/effort to make. Again, they don't have to thats why I don't hold it against them, but it still goes against normal service industry standards.

I would also add, they are the exception to the rule, most groups that order large orders from us tip very well.

Added at: 12:59

First Lady Puffinstuff said:
They were probably pissed you didn't give it to them for free because they are Amnesty International, after all. It's interesting the sense of entitlement non profit and charity organizations exhibit.

Eh, maybe, but more than likely the person paying for it just didn't know if she was allowed to tip or would get in trouble for doing it. In the end it's about how you factor your budgets. When I travelled for work part of how we billed for meals was with the tip, it was just part of the expected cost. That way clients couldn't get pissed for having it in there.

Jiarn · Mar 10, 2011

That's why you add the gratuity to the total. -wink-

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Jiarn said:
That's why you add the gratuity to the total. -wink-

It's really not something you can force. Like I said it's not required to tip, it's just a nice thing for folks to do especially with bigger/more difficult orders.

Jiarn · Mar 10, 2011

Party of 6 or more back at my old restaurant? You better believe there was a tip added on to the total.

sixpackshaker · Mar 10, 2011

$100 of coffee is only 5 cups.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Oh I know how restaurants do that, and believe me when I waited tables everywhere I worked did that as well. That being said if those parties wanted to they could have opted to not pay that gratuity. It's not a law or anything.

Jiarn · Mar 10, 2011

I'm sure it is, but at least it would have been there and they would have to had physically said "I don't want to tip you like this".

Mathias · Mar 10, 2011

Wait, what? You're supposed to tip catering now? Screw that. You want a tip, include it in your pricing. I so sick of having to tip for every goddamn service anymore.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Mathias said:
Wait, what? You're supposed to tip catering now? Screw that. You want a tip, include it in your pricing. I so sick of having to tip for every goddamn service anymore.

What the hell are you talking about?

makare · Mar 10, 2011

Yeah I thought you meant catering too.

Mathias · Mar 10, 2011

Espy said:
What the hell are you talking about?

You catered their event. Caterers don't get tips.

So you're saying you didn't? You just made them coffee and donuts and had them come pick them up? You don't tip for pick-up orders either.

Actually, it's not even required to tip at a Starbucks.

Where's my tip for doing my job, day in day out? Should I put a tip jar on my desk for students?

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

makare said:
Yeah I thought you meant catering too.

Sorry, no, it was just a big order. We don't cater stuff. And, for the 100th time, in no way do we require tips, just like every other coffee shop in existence we just have that little tip jar and a line on the credit card slip. It's just a nice thing to do at places where tipping is a generally accepted thing. Baristas don't make a ton of cash, especially at little independent (not to mention non-profit) coffee shops, so it's pretty normal to tip, even on big orders. We have one guy who does a 100 dollar coffee order every week, he always throws 10-20 bucks in for the baristas, not because he has to, but because he's a nice guy who values having an independent coffee shop and baker that he likes in the neighborhood. We wouldn't not do his order if he didn't tip, but the better tips you make the easier it is to keep better employees.

Mathias · Mar 10, 2011

Espy said:
Sorry, no, it was just a big order. We don't cater stuff. And, for the 100th time, in no way do we require tips, just like every other coffee shop in existence we just have that little tip jar and a line on the credit card slip. It's just a nice thing to do at places where tipping is a generally accepted thing. Baristas don't make a ton of cash, especially at little independent (not to mention non-profit) coffee shops, so it's pretty normal to tip, even on big orders. We have one guy who does a 100 dollar coffee order every week, he always throws 10-20 bucks in for the baristas, not because he has to, but because he's a nice guy who values having an independent coffee shop and baker that he likes in the neighborhood. We wouldn't not do his order if he didn't tip, but the better tips you make the easier it is to keep better employees.

No tip for you!

How the heck is a coffee shop not for profit? That doesn't make any sense.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Mathias said:
You catered their event. Caterers don't get tips.

So you're saying you didn't? You just made them coffee and donuts and had them come pick them up? You don't tip for pick-up orders either.

Actually, it's not even required to tip at a Starbucks.

Where's my tip for doing my job, day in day out? Should I put a tip jar on my desk for students?

You have beaten me down with your manly logic. You win. If I need anymore advice on how my business is run or how tipping normally works in America I will message you immediately.

Mathias · Mar 10, 2011

Espy said:
You have beaten me down with your manly logic. You win. If I need anymore advice on how my business is run or how tipping normally works in America I will message you immediately.

When I go back to industry this summer, I'm going to have our diagnostic clients require 20% tips on all LC runs my group does for them.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

How the heck is a coffee shop not for profit? That doesn't make any sense.

The same way anything is a not for profit?
I'm cheating here and using wikipedia but it explains what a not-for-profit is pretty succinctly:
A nonprofit organization (abbreviated as NPO, also known as a not-for-profit organization[1]) is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals.[2] Examples of NPOs include charities (i.e., charitable organizations), trade unions and public arts organizations. Most governments and government agencies meet this definition, but in most countries they are considered a separate type of organization and not counted as NPOs. In most countries, NPOs are exempt from income and property taxation.

All of our profits go to help the poor and needy in our city along with newly arriving refugees in our city and an orphange in Juarez.

When I go back to industry this summer, I'm going to have our diagnostic clients require 20% tips on all LC runs my group does for them.

If you decide that sounds reasonable then I'm sure it is.
Added at: 19:08
Holy crap I don't know what that did to my post... I think I made it work...

Mathias · Mar 10, 2011

I'm just not a fan of tipping culture. More and more tips are becoming the norm for regular service instead of what they're intended for - extraordinary service. I suppose in your case it is an instance of extraordinary service, but you should just charge the gratuity on the bill.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Mathias said:
I'm just not a fan of tipping culture.

Really? I couldn't tell

Mathias said:
More and more tips are becoming the norm for regular service instead of what they're intended for - extraordinary service. I suppose in your case it is an instance of extraordinary service, but you should just charge the gratuity on the bill.

I agree with you for the most part. However most service industry jobs like waiting tables and barista-ing are generally supplimented by tips. I didn't come up with it, it's been that way for a long time.
As to adding the gratuity on, as I said to Jiarn, I would never do that, it's NOT something they have to do. It's just a nice thing to do but no one is going to force you.

makare · Mar 10, 2011

I don't tip people who prepare food or drink but I do tip wait staff. I guess because they do alot of back and forth stuff for me. I don't tip for any kind of carry out order whether it is a coffee or a meal.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

Everyone decides what worth tipping on, thats how it is supposed to work, I always tip something. Generally just my change if I get coffee (unless I'm staying there and taking up space then it's a buck) and if it's a specialty drink over 3 or 4 bucks I always leave a dollar. I don't presume thats the "right" way to do it though, it's just how I do it. Plus I enjoy the great service you get when you tip and get to know the folks are your local coffee shop.

makare · Mar 10, 2011

See and I feel that paying 4 bucks for coffee and milk is more than enough to get superb service without a tip.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

makare said:
See and I feel that paying 4 bucks for coffee and milk is more than enough to get superb service without a tip.

And you are allowed to feel that way and while one might argue you are paying "4 bucks" for a lot more than just "coffee and milk", in most circumstance (obviously I can't speak for every coffee shop out there) you will still great service.

Shakey · Mar 10, 2011

If all you want is coffee and milk why are you paying $4 for it? Go to a gas sation and get what you pay for. If you want good coffee, good service, and good atmosphere, go to a coffee shop. These people usually get paid crap, so I'm more than willing to thank them for taking the time to make me a good drink. If you don't want to tip, make it yourself at Super America.

Null · Mar 10, 2011

I leave a tip at places where there is a wait staff who serves me, not at a place where I go to a counter, place my order, step aside and wait for the order, get it, pay for it, and leave. That level of service is included in the price of the goods.

makare · Mar 10, 2011

Shakey said:
If all you want is coffee and milk why are you paying $4 for it? Go to a gas sation and get what you pay for. If you want good coffee, good service, and good atmosphere, go to a coffee shop. These people usually get paid crap, so I'm more than willing to thank them for taking the time to make me a good drink. If you don't want to tip, make it yourself at Super America.

Then do you tip the cook at restaurants?

Shakey · Mar 10, 2011

makare said:
Then do you tip the cook at restaurants?

At the coffee shops I go to they are both the cooks and the wait staff. I make my order and sit down, they bring it to me and refill my drink if I want it.

Shakey · Mar 10, 2011

Also, cooks are paid on the idea that the don't get paid tips. Barrista's aren't.

makare · Mar 10, 2011

Shakey said:
At the coffee shops I go to they are both the cooks and the wait staff. I make my order and sit down, they bring it to me and refill my drink if I want it.

If people actually carry the drinks to me and serve me I will tip. The coffee places I go to (well when I used to) were just stand at the counter places. I'm not paying them extra for standing at a counter. I suppose if I ordered an extremely complicated annoying time consuming beverage I would tip but not for a latte.

Shakey · Mar 10, 2011

I can't speak for Espy's shop, but I've never been to a small coffee shop that hasn't brought you're order to you and been willing to stop by and ask if you want a refill.

Espy · Mar 10, 2011

In the end it's all about what you want to do folks. You do not, in any way, have to tip at any place you don't want to whether it be TGI Fridays or Starbucks or Jimmy Johns. That doesn't mean it's not customary to tip there, it just means you don't have to.

No one who comes into our coffee shop is looked down on for not tipping. Is it frustrating sometimes for the baristas when they work hard to take care of someone and they get no tip? Sure. But being frustrated and (as was the case with my RANT in the RANT thread) being angry or thinking it's a MUST are very different things.
Added at: 21:07

Shakey said:
If all you want is coffee and milk why are you paying $4 for it? Go to a gas sation and get what you pay for. If you want good coffee, good service, and good atmosphere, go to a coffee shop.

Eloquently said. The nice perk about our place is people know the money we do make (and believe me, despite what people assume, coffee shops do not make shit-tons of money, the majority of coffee shops and especially bakeries like ours operate on razor thin margins) goes to help those in need.
We actually did a really cool thing today I'm super proud of, one of our employees is single, pregnant and was just hospitalized with pnemonia and since she can't work is really hurting. So we made a special cookie that emphasized her roots (a wisconsin shaped sugar cookie with Packers colored sprinkles on it) and sold it for a little more than we normally would with all profits from it going to help her pay her medical bills.
People went NUTS. We had to make double the amount because the first tray went so fast. You know why? She knows all of our customers. They aren't just a buck, they are people who know her and she knows them. That's a good coffee shop.
Sorry, it's not a rant, but I'm just really proud and overwhelmed by the people that turned out today to support her

Jiarn · Mar 10, 2011

Real Life Photo of Mathias (the others were fake)

Mathias · Mar 10, 2011

Shakey said:
If all you want is coffee and milk why are you paying $4 for it? Go to a gas sation and get what you pay for. If you want good coffee, good service, and good atmosphere, go to a coffee shop. These people usually get paid crap, so I'm more than willing to thank them for taking the time to make me a good drink. If you don't want to tip, make it yourself at Super America.

Here's the worlds smallest violin for all the broke ass baristas.