POPECHAT: The Pope's involvement with child sex abuse coverups in the Church

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Steven Soderburgin

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.c...-is-the-pope-different-from-cardinal-law.html
A priest is discovered to have been actively molesting children. His superior is notified in 1980. One of the things he is told of is the priest's forcing an 11 year old boy to perform oral sex on him. The superior does not contact the police. He approves a transfer of the priest to a different city, where the priest is required to undergo therapy but is also subsequently able to resume his work with access to children. Six years later, the priest is again found guilty of abusing children. This time, he serves a sentence, but he is subsequently allowed to resume work as a priest, with the church authorities hiding his past from future parishes, and is only removed from his position three days ago.

Joseph Ratzinger was the superior, he reviewed the man's files in 1980, and he was subsequently in charge of reviewing all sex abuse cases as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine Of The Faith in Rome. He was integral to the policy of hushing up as much of this as possible. Money quote:
Hundreds of victims have come forward in recent months in Germany with accounts of sexual abuse from decades past. But no case has captured the attention of the nation like that of Father Hullermann, not only because of the involvement of the future pope, but also because of the impunity that allowed a child molester to continue to work with altar boys and girls for decades after his conviction.

Benedict not only served as the archbishop of the diocese where the priest worked, but also later as the cardinal in charge of reviewing sexual abuse cases for the Vatican. Yet until the Archdiocese of Munich and Freising announced that Father Hullermann had been suspended on Monday, he continued to serve in a series of Bavarian parishes.

In 1980, the future pope reviewed the case of Father Hullermann, who was accused of sexually abusing boys in the Diocese of Essen, including forcing an 11-year-old boy to perform oral sex. The future pope approved his transfer to Munich.
We don't know what lies ahead in Germany but if the story follows the pattern in the US, Australia and Ireland, the number of victims will grow, and the church hierarchy will at first blame anti-Catholic media for attacking the church, and at some point, the whole grisly truth will come out. Except this time, the current Pope himself will be - and already is - at the center of the storm.

If this person headed a secular organization, or if he were a politician, he would be forced to resign. Why are the standards for the Catholic church so much lower on tolerance of child abuse than the rest of society? On what grounds can this Pope reprimand bishops and priests in Ireland or the US when he seems deeply entangled in the same kind of cover-ups himself?

When, in other words, will the real victims come first? And moral responsibility meaningfully taken?
There have been tons of articles about this and a lot more reports about the abuse and attempts by the Church to cover them up, including many in which the now Pope was apparently directly involved in hushing up.
 


If you want to see a documentary about massive church cover-ups and watching the priest in question actually openly admit the things he did.
 
C

Chibibar

While I'm shocked at a priest are allow to have sex with young boys (note: all Catholic priests are male at this time) homosexuality in the church is a sin.

isn't that like Oxymoron?
 
While I'm shocked at a priest are allow to have sex with young boys (note: all Catholic priests are male at this time) homosexuality in the church is a sin.

isn't that like Oxymoron?
But that's part of the problem... the church only sees it as a sin, not the criminal act it is. That's one of the reasons why they don't kick pedophile priests out of the clergy: They believe it is a sin that can be overcome with sufficient prayer and devotion to God, and as such does not require the priests to get professional help or for them to be reported to the legal authorities.

Whatever happened to “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”?
 
I think chibi is saying that it's more the issue that consensual adult gay sex can get you kicked out of the catholic church, but molesting children won't.
 
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Chazwozel

It's always young boys because there's a loophole in church dogma somewhere that young boys are ok to have sex with or some shit like that...

Ash is right. The thought behind these hush ups is both to keep defamation on the lowkey and because the church tries to practice the whole forgiveness approach to it. Thing is, pedophiles are mentally disturbed individuals along the lines of rapists and serial killers. You can't just move them away to another position and hope things get better. These guys are the lowest form of scum, especially because of the position they hold over these young boys. Priests are supposed to be that one person you can go to who can and will help you with any struggle of life you're dealing with. If you want to talk about sin, I wish the church would recognize these wolves in sheep's clothing as the ultimate evil.

Even though I'm not really a practicing Catholic anymore, I was fortunate enough to experience being an alter boy for several priests who were in fact really good people. This is the case with many churches and it makes me sad to read about these horrible men that drag the whole institutions reputation down the toilet. As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
 

Dave

Staff member
As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?
 
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Chibibar

It's always young boys because there's a loophole in church dogma somewhere that young boys are ok to have sex with or some shit like that...

Ash is right. The thought behind these hush ups is both to keep defamation on the lowkey and because the church tries to practice the whole forgiveness approach to it. Thing is, pedophiles are mentally disturbed individuals along the lines of rapists and serial killers. You can't just move them away to another position and hope things get better. These guys are the lowest form of scum, especially because of the position they hold over these young boys. Priests are supposed to be that one person you can go to who can and will help you with any struggle of life you're dealing with. If you want to talk about sin, I wish the church would recognize these wolves in sheep's clothing as the ultimate evil.

Even though I'm not really a practicing Catholic anymore, I was fortunate enough to experience being an alter boy for several priests who were in fact really good people. This is the case with many churches and it makes me sad to read about these horrible men that drag the whole institutions reputation down the toilet. As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
dude, you are dissing scum. These pedophile are worst than scum. To me, they are just meaty flesh target for my swords and guns (if I have a gun)

but yea, the point I was trying to give was that two consenting adults are kick out of the church (or excommunicated) but with difference of age it is ok? That is mess up.

edit: as for sin. It is a sin to kill and it is also a crime.
 
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Chazwozel

As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...
 

Dave

Staff member
As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...[/QUOTE]

So he's not evil, just criminally stupid.
 
Another thing that plays into keeping these pedophiles on as priests after therapy; is the fact that over the last 60 years the church has been losing great numbers of priests. After the war men were not signing up in the numbers that they used to. So priests are really valuable commodities that they try to save.
 
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Chibibar

Another thing that plays into keeping these pedophiles on as priests after therapy; is the fact that over the last 60 years the church has been losing great numbers of priests. After the war men were not signing up in the numbers that they used to. So priests are really valuable commodities that they try to save.
I can see the church side trying to save what little priests they have left, but in retrospect (good old hindsight 20/20) this is NOT helping to recruit future priest.
 
C

Chazwozel

As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...[/QUOTE]

So he's not evil, just criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing he was covering his own ass by not reporting it to the media, and being that he's not a physiologist but a priest, he believed that the pedophile would get better.
 
Another thing that plays into keeping these pedophiles on as priests after therapy; is the fact that over the last 60 years the church has been losing great numbers of priests. After the war men were not signing up in the numbers that they used to. So priests are really valuable commodities that they try to save.
I think the Sexual Liberation of America had a lot more to do with it than the War. The simple fact is that Catholic Priests can't get married or have families unless they had them before they joined the Church. This is a HUGE sacrifice to ask of anyone and unfortunately most people won't give it up. What they really need to do is admit women into the priesthood if they want to drive up numbers.
 

Dave

Staff member
As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...[/QUOTE]

So he's not evil, just criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing he was covering his own ass by not reporting it to the media, and being that he's not a physiologist but a priest, he believed that the pedophile would get better.[/QUOTE]

I repeat, criminally stupid.
 
C

Chazwozel

As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...[/QUOTE]

So he's not evil, just criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing he was covering his own ass by not reporting it to the media, and being that he's not a physiologist but a priest, he believed that the pedophile would get better.[/QUOTE]

I repeat, criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]


I'd say more like naive and ignorant? He could have been a whistleblower, but the fact that he wasn't doesn't make him responsible for the crimes.
 
Him not reporting the crimes to the police and actively covering them up does make him criminally responsible.
 

Dave

Staff member
As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...[/QUOTE]

So he's not evil, just criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing he was covering his own ass by not reporting it to the media, and being that he's not a physiologist but a priest, he believed that the pedophile would get better.[/QUOTE]

I repeat, criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]


I'd say more like naive and ignorant? He could have been a whistleblower, but the fact that he wasn't doesn't make him responsible for the crimes.[/QUOTE]

If a subordinate of yours was caught molesting little boys and instead of turning him into the cops you sent him to work in another lab with the promise that he get counseling would you be at fault or not.

Why is it different if it's a clergyman?
 
C

Chazwozel

You think companies don't do this to their upper end employees?!?!
 
P

Philosopher B.

Child molesters should be taken to a field and shot, not moved around. Fuck the pope.
 
You think companies don't do this to their upper end employees?!?!
And...?

That makes it neither right nor morally acceptable. I think you are defending the indefensible.[/QUOTE]

I'm saying he's not responsible for that other priest's crimes.[/QUOTE]

Yes, actually, he is. In covering it up, he is giving his tacit approval of the crime, giving permission for the perpetrator to do it again. I'm not all that up on the legal system, but doesn't that actually make him an accessory to the crime?
 

Dave

Staff member
I'm not to blame if my brother murders someone. If I know about it, help to cover it up and make it so my brother can go someplace and do it again I damn well am to blame for everything that happens after that.
 
I

Iaculus

As for the pope. I think the media is trying to stick it to him where he really doesn't deserve it.
So moving priests into other areas when he knew they were pedophiles is forgivable? So what would he have to do to deserve what he's getting?[/QUOTE]

Be a pedophile himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't do it with the intention of having them molest kids further...[/QUOTE]

So he's not evil, just criminally stupid.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing he was covering his own ass by not reporting it to the media, and being that he's not a physiologist but a priest, he believed that the pedophile would get better.[/QUOTE]

Psychologist, right?
 
C

Chibibar

I'm not to blame if my brother murders someone. If I know about it, help to cover it up and make it so my brother can go someplace and do it again I damn well am to blame for everything that happens after that.
right... doesn't that fall under abating and aiding a criminal? (I think that is the right word)

As for corporate, yea, that could happen too until a case broke out and all people are responsible for it when they try to help cover up (assuming the evidence points to them)

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ----------

Child molesters should be taken to a field and shot, not moved around. Fuck the pope.
Let me go buy a gun and I'll help you shoot.
 
Here's something I've wondered since all the reports started coming out. What the fuck is behind all of the pedo priests?

Is there something about the church that causes pedos to flock to it? Is there something in the training that turns religious men into sick child abusing fucks? Or are there no more short eyes in the catholic church than elsewhere but they just had the opportunity to indulge their sickness?

I mean come on what the fuck is up with the crazy amount of abuse in the church?
 
C

Chazwozel

Here's something I've wondered since all the reports started coming out. What the fuck is behind all of the pedo priests?

Is there something about the church that causes pedos to flock to it? Is there something in the training that turns religious men into sick child abusing fucks? Or are there no more short eyes in the catholic church than elsewhere but they just had the opportunity to indulge their sickness?

I mean come on what the fuck is up with the crazy amount of abuse in the church?
It happens in a lot of positions were people have power over others. As I recall, I remember reading a huge scandal in the orthodox Jewish community over rabbis that molested children. These were never brought to light until recently because to besmirch the name of a rabbi in orthodox communities pretty much means you excommunicate yourself.
 

Dave

Staff member
Here's something I've wondered since all the reports started coming out. What the fuck is behind all of the pedo priests?

Is there something about the church that causes pedos to flock to it? Is there something in the training that turns religious men into sick child abusing fucks? Or are there no more short eyes in the catholic church than elsewhere but they just had the opportunity to indulge their sickness?

I mean come on what the fuck is up with the crazy amount of abuse in the church?
It happens in a lot of positions were people have power over others. As I recall, I remember reading a huge scandal in the orthodox Jewish community over rabbis that molested children. These were never brought to light until recently because to besmirch the name of a rabbi in orthodox communities pretty much means you excommunicate yourself.[/QUOTE]

And do you support the rabbis who covered it up?
 
Here's something I've wondered since all the reports started coming out. What the fuck is behind all of the pedo priests?

Is there something about the church that causes pedos to flock to it? Is there something in the training that turns religious men into sick child abusing fucks? Or are there no more short eyes in the catholic church than elsewhere but they just had the opportunity to indulge their sickness?

I mean come on what the fuck is up with the crazy amount of abuse in the church?
Is it crazy high? When you think of how large the organization is (with 1B followers worldwide, the organization itself has to be pretty big) is the incidence of it any higher than in the population at large?

I've seen conjecture both ways (people saying it's higher, people saying it's not), but does anybody have anything resembling "real" links on to the actual numbers?

For example, if 1 in 1000 adults are pedophiles (I pulled that number out of a hat), then it makes a difference if 5 out of 1000 priests are pedophiles, or if it's 1 out of 10,000 priests. Which is it?
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
Here's something I've wondered since all the reports started coming out. What the fuck is behind all of the pedo priests?

Is there something about the church that causes pedos to flock to it? Is there something in the training that turns religious men into sick child abusing fucks? Or are there no more short eyes in the catholic church than elsewhere but they just had the opportunity to indulge their sickness?

I mean come on what the fuck is up with the crazy amount of abuse in the church?
Is it crazy high? When you think of how large the organization is (with 1B followers worldwide, the organization itself has to be pretty big) is the incidence of it any higher than in the population at large?

I've seen conjecture both ways (people saying it's higher, people saying it's not), but does anybody have anything resembling "real" links on to the actual numbers?

For example, if 1 in 1000 adults are pedophiles (I pulled that number out of a hat), then it makes a difference if 5 out of 1000 priests are pedophiles, or if it's 1 out of 10,000 priests. Which is it?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the problem is the number or the % of priests, but how the churches allow them to get away with it.
 
C

Chibibar

Here's something I've wondered since all the reports started coming out. What the fuck is behind all of the pedo priests?

Is there something about the church that causes pedos to flock to it? Is there something in the training that turns religious men into sick child abusing fucks? Or are there no more short eyes in the catholic church than elsewhere but they just had the opportunity to indulge their sickness?

I mean come on what the fuck is up with the crazy amount of abuse in the church?
Is it crazy high? When you think of how large the organization is (with 1B followers worldwide, the organization itself has to be pretty big) is the incidence of it any higher than in the population at large?

I've seen conjecture both ways (people saying it's higher, people saying it's not), but does anybody have anything resembling "real" links on to the actual numbers?

For example, if 1 in 1000 adults are pedophiles (I pulled that number out of a hat), then it makes a difference if 5 out of 1000 priests are pedophiles, or if it's 1 out of 10,000 priests. Which is it?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the problem is the number or the % of priests, but how the churches allow them to get away with it.[/QUOTE]

sadly. like Rape cases, many people may not come forward with this. We have already seen hundreds of children cases on this. It could be thousands (which to me is a lot regardless of 1 to 1000 or 5 to 1billion.)

I have to agree with GL. The main problem is that these priest are not being dealt with. They are just shuffle to a new location and STILL have access to children.

A normal non-priest would have a court order not to be NEAR children like 500+ feet or something, but being a priest, there is no such restriction.
 
Also you guys need to look into the laws that were on the books at the time of the offenses. It was not until the 70's and 80's that it began to be a felony. It was the 90s before it was prosecuted as a serious crime. Many of the cases that are being discussed here happened 30-50 years ago.

Across the entire Western World it was swept under the rug in all walks of life. The only exception I can think of is when my Granddad likely killed a guy that molested one of his daughters.
 
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