Stop reading Halforums?
[Brazelton] RIP Roger Ebert
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Done, but not voluntarily.Stop reading Halforums?
Screen reading and voice recognition software works surprisingly well.[DOUBLEPOST=1365272664][/DOUBLEPOST](I am entirely joking, btw. Just in case people get the idea that I am actually suffering vision problems...)[DOUBLEPOST=1365272699][/DOUBLEPOST]Still, I'm not about to turn down hugs.[DOUBLEPOST=1365272744][/DOUBLEPOST]Unless you're sick.
What if I'm covered in what is either chocolate or raw sewage? Can I still hug you? Will you roll the dice?
Thats not at all what I said or meant either. It's a ridiculous statement in fact. People can enjoy films, music, art, etc without being able to produce it themselves and they can have opinions on it that are relevant.
My only point about Ebert is that he had a wonderfully unique view because of his first hand knowledge that I for one think colored his critiques and made them better.
Anyway, lets move past this, it's really getting dumb.
I'm really sad to not read anymore of his reviews, this guy, even when I disagreed with him had some of the most insightful things to say about movies and I agree with whoever posted the TF2 review up there, it's a real gem.
Exactly.
That doesn't make any sense. Why should it matter if the customer understands the waiter's life story if he's terrible at his job.
Excuse me waiter, we ordered our drinks over a half an hour ago and you still haven't taken our food order.
- So, I'm only here as a favour to management.
Well, it's your job is it not? You're not doing it very well.
- YOU DON'T GET TO TELL ME I'M BAD AT MY JOB, YOU'VE NEVER DONE MY JOB!
I'm kind of disappointed you messed the entire message up. Had nothing to do with her personal life. I'm saying someone who's never been a waiter won't know what difficulties might pop up during the service that they may perceive as bad service because they themselves don't have the experience.
It is, although I think this discussion has slowly drifted to a different aspect altogether than what Espy was talking about.
As for as the waiter analogy, it may be true I don't know their struggles, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure I should care. I show up at a restaurant, I expect prompt service and courteous service. I can empathize with someone having a busy day, but it only goes so far.
My younger brother is in 4th year medical school. He says the entire process to become a doctor is pretty hellish, and if I choose to go through with it and go to med school myself, I have to fully appreciate what the words "delayed gratification" mean. It got to the point that in his 2nd year, he was eating butter sprinkled with sugar because the insane schedule he was given was destroying him mentally. Still, if he identically uses a dirty needle to give someone a shot, I doubt, "I've been on shift for 30 hours, and I'm really tired. Sorry 'bout the AIDS" is going to fly.
This:
can certainly be a relevant point is some, but not all cases.
Wrong. It's interpreted that way by those without knowledge of the inner workings. Aka the ignorant.
Very much the same can be said for many critics of almost anything without experience in the field.
How is it wrong? I'm the customer. My perception of service is paramount. If I perceive the service is crap, then I vote with my wallet and don't go back, and tell my friends not to go.
I can think I'm the best teacher in the world and the Chinese parents (who are not teachers) are dumbasses, but if they don't like my teaching or don't think my performance is up to par to be worth the money they're spending for their child to learn, then I lose my job.
Your point, gilgamesh, I think is highly dependent on the situation. If you're a waiter and I think your service is shitty, I give you a small tip. If its bad enough, I tell your manager. If I'm a geneticist and I'm publishing a groundbreaking paper on platypus DNA, then no, I don't really care what Joe the Plumber thinks and judgement by others in my field is what matters.
I never said you didn't have a right to an opinion. I simply stated you'd be wrong on why the service was bad.
This isn't about losing or keeping jobs, this is about people who think they know a situation/art form better than the server/artist. They can have an opinion, but that's all it'll be, an opinion based on their own ignorant view. A critic who has experience in the situation will hold a higher opinion more worth being treated with a response from the artist/performer. THAT is the point you're missing.[/quote]
Complete bullshit. Absolute, complete and utter bullshit.
You can make all the excuses you want, bad service is bad service.
You don't need to have done a job to know someone's terrible at it if you have someone who's good at it to compare them to. If one waiter brings you your food and drinks like they're supposed to, while another brings you fresh horse manure on a platter, then you can tell which is a good waiter and which isn't even if you've never done it yourself (unless you ordered horse manure).
If you ever saw Roger Ebert's movie... you would realize that he had no idea how to make a good movie.
This has turned into a very stupid argument, and yet I can't stay away.
Service at a restaurant is catered towards the customers, many of which are not going to have experience in the restaurant field. Service is meant to appeal to them to keep them as customers, without the need for them to have a background in restauranteering.
In the same way, (most) movies are created with an audience in mind, and that audience isn't other movie creators. This is why a movie critic doesn't have to be experienced in -making- movies (though there is no argument that this experience can add perspective) because they are entering into the experience as the audience, and their job is to translate their opinion to other laypersons in that same audience pool.
If you, as a film director, create a movie that only other movie creators are going to enjoy, you shouldn't be upset when critics reporting to the general public give it a pass.
Service at a restaurant is catered towards the customers, many of which are not going to have experience in the restaurant field. Service is meant to appeal to them to keep them as customers, without the need for them to have a background in restauranteering.
In the same way, (most) movies are created with an audience in mind, and that audience isn't other movie creators. This is why a movie critic doesn't have to be experienced in -making- movies (though there is no argument that this experience can add perspective) because they are entering into the experience as the audience, and their job is to translate their opinion to other laypersons in that same audience pool.
If you, as a film director, create a movie that only other movie creators are going to enjoy, you shouldn't be upset when critics reporting to the general public give it a pass.
The funny thing is that this has gotten way out of hand because I never meant it to be a conversation about the director and the audience (the server and the customer).
I simply meant to say that the opinion of a critic who understands the process by having experienced it has a more thorough and well versed opinion than one who doesn't. Therefore, their opinion is more valued.
That's all.
I simply meant to say that the opinion of a critic who understands the process by having experienced it has a more thorough and well versed opinion than one who doesn't. Therefore, their opinion is more valued.
That's all.
You're right, however I did say it was a bad analogy. So I refreshed my point in that post.
That's the issue, right there. Nobody else is talking about why the service is bad. Customers don't give a fuck why it's bad. They care that it is bad, and that's it. Maybe there are valid reasons, maybe they'd be clear if the customer had worked the job. It just doesn't matter to them at all.
When I worked as a waiter, I was terrible at it, so now I have a special perspective and appreciation for bad service.
On a more serious note though, rest in peace Mr. Ebert. I didn't always agree with your opinions, but I respected that your opinions were always well thought-out and reasoned. Have fun in that giant cinema in the sky.
(Though that thing you did with the video games not being art, that made me rage a bit)
On a more serious note though, rest in peace Mr. Ebert. I didn't always agree with your opinions, but I respected that your opinions were always well thought-out and reasoned. Have fun in that giant cinema in the sky.
(Though that thing you did with the video games not being art, that made me rage a bit)
Yeah we're already past that bad analogy I used.
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