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That was disappointing.

Everything you expected, then?

--Patrick

Yeah pretty much.

I liked it. It was rushed at spots, but overall good. Will post more when I don't have 4 hours until I have to wake up and go to work.

General Specific said:

I liked it. It was rushed at spots, but overall good. Will post more when I don't have 4 hours until I have to wake up and go to work.

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I'm with you. It was rushed for a while until they made back what story they had to catch up after VIII (like, VIII? What VIII? I mean, they more or less pulled a Highlander III almost pretending the movie before did not exist; I liked how they justified the lack of Holdo manoeuvers before the one) and could go into what was properly Ep IX. It sure could have been more, and better, overall, but I liked it and will see it a second time, then in the english version.
Even the sceptics we had along felt good enough afterwards that all they complained about was the looks of Adam Driver and why they couldn't just bomb the nav beacon. Need to see it again before I would rate it, but I still feel satisfied by now.

I'm still not certain if we need to buffer spoilers for the "new posts" feature or not. So, I'm doing it in the interest of not accidentally spoiling things.


not yet



a bit more



There, I think that should be good?

So, my feelings. The movie is rushed, they jump from set piece to set piece in an effort to explain away or correct most of the issues I had with Last Jedi. I will now go over some of my thoughts on the plot.

• Palpatine's not dead, ok, interesting. Seems he was gravely injured by the fall, but not entirely killed. Though he did say he had been "dead before", so maybe this is more sith necromancy than really surviving. How that happened though is a mystery. I do like that they had a simple explanation for Snoke though and can put that issue to rest. Plus, Palpatine was just badass in this, I really liked how they used him all throughout. He felt like the OT Emperor and not the cartoony version from the Prequels.
• I am not really a fan of Rey being the granddaughter of Palpatine, but it works in service to the story. I don't have a problem with it and it does explain why she is so powerful. I also like that she adopted the name Skywalker at the end.
• We finally see the Knights of Ren! No info on them, though, they are just there to be menacing and give Kylo Ben someone to slow him down in the conclusion. Maybe we will see more of them later in some other form.
• The whole Chewie died, oh no there was another ship thing. Eh, not my favorite, but fine, they wanted the dramatic tension and to show off the lightning. Probably could have been done better if they had more time and didn't have to clean up so much.
• C-3P0's quick subplot. I liked it. The jokes worked and it gave 3P0 something to actually DO other than to simply be fussy and there.
• Plenty of saber battles, which were all fine. The connection being brought up again and the actual displacement of items was interesting and proved useful later on when they transferred the saber so that at least was worthwhile.
• The final battle (both on land and in space) was epic and I loved it, even if it was a bit predictable. Everyone knew the good guys would rally and win.
• Ben bringing Rey back at the end worked, the kiss not so much. Ben dying right after and fading away at the same time as Leia felt right.
• And finally, LEIA. So they had some issues fully integrating what little of Carrie Fisher they had. Body double was obvious and there were scenes where you could tell they essentially gave Leia's dialogue to the other person in the scene. Most notably Rey. "I'll go run the course"/"I'll earn your brother's saber someday." etc. all felt like they should have come from Leia instead of being spoken at her. They did what they could and while not totally happy with it, they did end up giving her the sendoff she deserved.

I'm still mulling things over, so may have more to say later.

Overall I liked it (granted, I also liked TLJ, for different reasons than this one). I definitely see why critics were harsh about how much of a re-tread it was (resurrect the old "scary" bad guy, visit all the same old places, basically no new characters) but for the (ostensibly) last movie of an epic like this, I was fine with it. Some things I thought were neat:

• All the major characters having something to do throughout the movie that felt like it actually advanced the plot (e.g. no Canto Bight nonsense). For me, it felt like Finn finally had a plot for the first time since he helped Poe escape in TFA.
• The new characters didn't seem overly shoehorned in (Poe's old flame from the planet with the black market droid baby-alien, the crew of people who were all First Order defectors around the Death Star wreckage). The latter seemed particularly nice to finally add in - clearly not everyone would blindly follow orders and there would be other defectors around. I thought they helped to round out Finn's character a bit.
• Poor General Hux was a bit of a deus ex machina, but I'm glad that he wasn't presented as "hey, I'm a good guy!" and more "I just don't want that bastard to win" type of character.
• I loved the light(n)ing for the Emperor's face - it made the shifting features and hulking machinery creepier in the Evil Sith Lair.
• I admit, I giggled a bit at the fact that translating the "forbidden language" made C3P0 catch a case of red-eye disease - like, why is that a feature of his programming?
• My favorite totally minor detail that I spotted was in Kylo's costuming - after the fight and subsequent resurrection on the Death Star wreckage, as Kylo turns to watch Rey fly his ship away, you can see he has a little stab hole in his cloak from where the light saber came out his back. Kudos to the costume designer and continuity people for that!

General Specific said:

I am not really a fan of Rey being the granddaughter of Palpatine, but it works in service to the story. I don't have a problem with it and it does explain why she is so powerful. I also like that she adopted the name Skywalker at the end.

The final battle (both on land and in space) was epic and I loved it, even if it was a bit predictable. Everyone knew the good guys would rally and win.

And finally, LEIA. So they had some issues fully integrating what little of Carrie Fisher they had. Body double was obvious and there were scenes where you could tell they essentially gave Leia's dialogue to the other person in the scene. Most notably Rey. "I'll go run the course"/"I'll earn your brother's saber someday." etc. all felt like they should have come from Leia instead of being spoken at her. They did what they could and while not totally happy with it, they did end up giving her the sendoff she deserved.

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I am also a bit sad that they made Rey be a Palpatine, but if the alternative for generating a super-powerful Jedi is what we got in TPM ("You are JediJesus, born of woman and The ForceMidichlorians, hence your enormous power") then the Palpatine plot was definitely the way to go. It made Rey's struggles/fears about the dark side much easier to understand, though certainly not presented in a novel way.

I was dreading what they would do with Leia, but overall I think they did the best they could. I'm glad they didn't go the Peter Cushing route and CGI her (as the General, anyway). They still can't quite get her younger self's face right, though.

The final battle seemed appropriately epic, with just a touch of novelty (Foot soldiers storming a ship by fighting on its surface! That was pretty neat!) I thought it was a bit of mostly believable tension when the newly-revived emperor was electrocuting all the ships in the sky - though by that late in the movie, of course the heroes would have to win (it IS Disney after all) but wouldn't it be such a cruel twist if the Emperor managed to demolish every one of that massive not-Navy in one fell swoop? Some of the fanservice bits did feel a bit rushed (like Maz Kanata giving Chewie his "missing" medal from ANH in the last moments) but overall I was happy with the cheesy, feel-good ending.

This God damn movie is a hilarious car crash.

https://www.polygon.com/fortnite/20...ker-fortnite-opening-crawl-palpatines-message

The opening scrawl refers to a message you only heard if you played fucking Fortnite.

I had an over-all good experience. I didn't feel like I wasted my money, and I was entertained. But it wasn't perfect, and nothing ever is, not even the original trilogy.

The Bad: The Palpatine connection. The Emperor being alive? Eeeeerrrrrgggghhhhhhhhh... okay, I'll allow it. Rey being a Palpatine? C'mon. Look, I know Star Wars is a soap opera, and it's like Checkov's Family Tree, where is someone is introduced in the first act, they're going to be related somehow in the third act. For a second, I though they were going to make Jannah Landos's kid, and then I would have thrown something at the screen. I was hoping they'd go the Star Wars Rebels route where the Empire was hunting down Force-sensitive kids and they realized Rey was super-powerful and so they hid her. I would explain the early vision of Luke on a burning desert planet. OR maybe have them go the Ego route, where Palpatine had a lot of kids running around in the hopes that one would develop Sith powers. But the, "Hey, I had a son I never mentioned, like, ever, and you're his kid" was honestly my biggest letdown in this whole movie. Star Wars canon gives so many outs for this, and we wouldn't have Jesus!Anakin crap again.

The pacing. They were trying to squeeze a LOT of story in there, and I really think they should have slowed down from time-to-time to let a little more emotion sink in. They didn't meander the plot like gambling-planet in TLJ, but it was just ACTIONACTIONACTIONALLTHETIME, which isn't great, either.

The kiss. That felts wholy unnecessary, but then he died, so I was okay with it. I just didn't want it to turn into Jedi Wuv.

The Good: Leia. I like that for all his faults, at least J.J. Abrahms kept some of the better parts of TLJ going. Yes, it wasn't perfect because they could only do so much with Carrie Fisher's passing. But Leia being shown having Jedi training is like a big middle fingers to all those bitchers and whiners seeing her use the Force in TLJ. I said it before, I'll say it again: She's Princess-Fucking-Leia. She commandeered her own rescue from the get-go. She's going to use every resource she has, and if she find out she has the Force? Hell yeah she's going to try to use it! And I can buy her stepping away from it when she worried about Ben. Her only teacher was Luke, who was still pretty new to being a Jedi and teaching anyone else. He had a very minimal education, too, but I think the only thing that saved his ass was being trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda. Also, I want Leia's lightsaber.

The Jedi talk. I like that all the Jedi came together with Rey. I recognized a lot of the voices from all the movies and the tv shows. It was an easter egg that made me so happy.

The no-kiss. I liked that Poe ACTUALLY ASKED Zorii if it was okay to kiss her. Twice! And making it okay that she said no! Thank you, Hollywood, it's about time! Yes, it is sexy to ask, and even better that hearing "no" wasn't a giant ego-strike. Please do this more instead of assuming it's okay to kiss someone because you feel like it.

The core group. I still love Rey, Finn and Poe together, and they made the trilogy for me.

There's probably more good and bad, but I have to go do some errands, so they'll come to me later.

I liked it. I don't think it was any worse than most of the other movies. I think it would have been better if the first half of this movie was the middle movie, because I think it did a much better job of setting stakes we'd expect from Star Wars.

That said, poly relationship between Finn, Poe, and Rey when?

(Also, I was complaining to my husband when I made my Saber at Disney that I couldn't make a yellow one and it was bullshit. Now I'm even more mad.)

Movie was terrible but I loved it.

Except the lightsaber battles. Those were easily the worst in the series.

• Am i the only one who thinks it would have been better if Palpatine was a fake, and the actual reason why the Sith Lord wanted Rey there was so he can take over her body as revenge for being killed in his sleep by grampa?

• And yes, it would have been nice if Palpatine was mentioned as having a couple of bastards from his young days on Naboo.

• Also, again, this has too many rehashed and remixed elements from the OT (turn to the dark side or my trap will kill your friends; destroy the antenna thing to allow us to attack the planet destroying weapon/s). As i mentioned before, that was understandable for TFA, but they have no excuse for the 2 after.

Every planet has breathable atmosphere. Rey can stand in the middle of a storm at sea and not get wet. Fucking HORSES IN SPACE?!?

Dave said:

Every planet has breathable atmosphere.

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That's always been true of Star Wars. Even asteroids can be walked on with nothing more than a bag over your face. This is fantasy, not sci-fi.

*Note, movie is still meh though. As others have said it's... Fine.

SUPER cheesy & predictable. I'm glad they only made 3 Star Wars movies. Had they tried sequels or - god forbid - prequels, they'd have sucked and ruined everything.

I liked it!

But still the greatest secret is unrevealed.

It was fine. My kid absolutely loved it so a successful Star Wars movie.

I am now ready for new Star Wars adventures that do not rely or need to call back to.... anything.

Gryfter said:

It was fine. My kid absolutely loved it so a successful Star Wars movie.

I am now ready for new Star Wars adventures that do not rely or need to call back to.... anything.

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I was in that exact mood. Which is why I subscribed to Disney+ and started watching The Mandalorian. I'm only 3 episodes in and I'm already hooked and definitely more engaged than I was for 90% of this movie.

For me, the conceit was the biggest folly. Palpatine raising an unstoppable armada of planet killers literally from the ground (No factories? The crews came from...?) was all terribly eye-rolling. The reliance on a bunch of civilians to show up when needed was also completely stupid.

Where a lot of the critics were wrong:

- TLJ didn't get retconned. I think making Rey someone special was less than ideal but it definitely served the story, so...okay. In fact, I think Abrams picked up what TLJ left him more often than not.

- Also, most of the fan service stuff was fine. The medal at the end was dumb. The x-wing coming out of the water was great, though, and foreshadowed in TLJ.

- I feel like Leia was actually not well placed in the movie. Her dialog felt pasted in. Her scenes often seemed out of place to me.

- They don't all stay together the whole time. Why are people saying this?

Where the critics are mostly right is the pacing. It doesn't slow down enough to establish the stakes properly. There were nice moments to breathe, but it wasn't enough.

I agree with someone above. The lightsaber battles were forgettable.

I'm the end, it was a serviceable conclusion to the nonology. It tied together some things across the whole series and I left feeling like the saga was over. That's all I could ask for, really.

DUDE! WEDGE ANTILLES SHOWED UP!

... because of course he did.

sixpackshaker said:

DUDE! WEDGE ANTILLES SHOWED UP!

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Hey! A spoiler I hadn't heard yet! Neat!
(I don't mean this as any sort of dig, I'm aware I'm in the spoiler thread - people all just tend to consider the same things "important" spoilers which means you'll hear those a hundred times, and this isn't one of them)

I dunno what thread to put this in, so here it goes.

It is canon now that the Ren in Knights of Ren means lightsaber. So, Ben Solo's chosen name is Kylo Lightsaber.

Star Wars is stupid.

I was disappointed that Rey buried the lightsabers instead of handing one to Finn, and training him.

sixpackshaker said:

I was disappointed that Rey buried the lightsabers instead of handing one to Finn, and training him.

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She didn't destroy them, so you never know...
I also read somewhere that with the Final Order's fleet having star-destroying capabilities, there's now a glut of Khyber crystals, so she might be encouraging any future Force-users to seek out their own path/lightsabers. It would make sense, considering she rejected being a Palpatine and Ben seemed to be seduced to the dark side by his grandfather's legacy.

sixpackshaker said:

I was disappointed that Rey buried the lightsabers instead of handing one to Finn, and training him.

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She should just make him a new training saber...

Frank said:

So, Ben Solo's chosen name is Kylo Lightsaber.

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To be fair we have been following a story whose main surname has been Skywalker. It's pretty on brand.

I'm more annoyed by the fact that the Knight of Lightsaber had none...

A lot of movie characters have used Christ symbology to show their hero as a savior. Rey gets to be the Ark of the Covenant and melt the face off a space nazi.

I think I'm okay with this.

blotsfan said:

That was disappointing.

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I finally actually watched it.

Quoted post, to say the LEAST.

When I made this thread I was planning on posting expanded thoughts. But its been a week and I'm still just...blah

Twitter asks a good question, "why did Snoke bother with Starkiller base when his boss/creator had a thousand planet-destroying ships parked in his garage?"

How the hell were they able to fit planet destroying weapons on Star Destroyers anyway? Weren't the Death Stars and Starkiller Base huge because they had to be in order to have planet destroying weapons?

figmentPez said:

Twitter asks a good question, "why did Snoke bother with Starkiller base when his boss/creator had a thousand planet-destroying ships parked in his garage?"

How the hell were they able to fit planet destroying weapons on Star Destroyers anyway? Weren't the Death Stars and Starkiller Base huge because they had to be in order to have planet destroying weapons?

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The answer is hey look, it's Wedge! Remember Wedge? Here's Lando! You like Lando, right? Lap it up you dumb Star Wars nerds and give us your money!

figmentPez said:

Twitter asks a good question, "why did Snoke bother with Starkiller base when his boss/creator had a thousand planet-destroying ships parked in his garage?"

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Apparently it's cheaper to drive a planet around than an entire fleet of starships? Why bring out the ExtraSuperMassive weapon if the SuperMassive weapon will do to quash the rebel resistance scum? Or possibly the legion of Sith Minions (who may or may not have been spirits of sith past or current living groupies) were still installing the cupholders and air fresheners in the Fleet o' Doom during TFA so they couldn't deploy yet? And per TRoS, Snoke was a (potentially literal) puppet with the Emperor pulling the strings, so it wasn't particularly his call to make to deploy the huge fleet.

(All that being said, I enjoyed TFA and TRoS...)

netsirk said:

Apparently it's cheaper to drive a planet around than an entire fleet of starships? Why bring out the ExtraSuperMassive weapon if the SuperMassive weapon will do to quash the rebel resistance scum? Or possibly the legion of Sith Minions (who may or may not have been spirits of sith past or current living groupies) were still installing the cupholders and air fresheners in the Fleet o' Doom during TFA so they couldn't deploy yet? And per TRoS, Snoke was a (potentially literal) puppet with the Emperor pulling the strings, so it wasn't particularly his call to make to deploy the huge fleet.

(All that being said, I enjoyed TFA and TRoS...)

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Each ship in the fleet is capable of destroying a planet on it's own. Why build Starkiller base at all?

And, yes, Snoke was just Palpatine's puppet. Palpatine knew he had the tech to put a superweapon on a Star Destroyer. Why build Starkiller base if he already miniaturized the tech?

And before you say "well, maybe the tech wasn't ready yet", one of the points of Star Was canon was supposed to be that tech was relatively stagnant and that the galaxy has been at roughly the same level of tech for thousands of years. Knights of the Old Republic takes place nearly 4,000 years before the current trilogy, and has pretty much the same level of tech.

figmentPez said:

Each ship in the fleet is capable of destroying a planet on it's own. Why build Starkiller base at all?

And, yes, Snoke was just Palpatine's puppet. Palpatine knew he had the tech to put a superweapon on a Star Destroyer. Why build Starkiller base if he already miniaturized the tech?

And before you say "well, maybe the tech wasn't ready yet", one of the points of Star Was canon was supposed to be that tech was relatively stagnant and that the galaxy has been at roughly the same level of tech for thousands of years. Knights of the Old Republic takes place nearly 4,000 years before the current trilogy, and has pretty much the same level of tech.

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Starkiller Base is revealed in Fallen Order to be a project started right with the original rise of the empire, and is in fact Ilum, the Jedi planet where Jedi would pilgrimage to get they kyber crystals.


So the first order didn't really build starkiller Base so much as they just finished it.


As for palatine's killer fleet, my question is who is crewing all of those? He just rose them up fully crewed?

Ravenpoe said:

As for palatine's killer fleet, my question is who is crewing all of those? He just rose them up fully crewed?

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Droids? That's all I got.

Celt Z said:

Droids? That's all I got.

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Is that the Star Wars version of "a wizard did it"?

I'd like to add, all of this is pretty common solutions for the Empire; when the Rebellion blew up the Death Star, what do they do? Build the same thing again! What could go wrong?!

Ravenpoe said:

As for palatine's killer fleet, my question is who is crewing all of those?

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At the risk of getting this whole thread moved to the politcal sub-forum: The space-midwest built them. He promised them factory jobs and they came flocking. The crew have been told they'll get their college educations paid for. Which makes the Knights of Ren a cross between fratboys and Masons.

DarkAudit said:

Is that the Star Wars version of "a wizard did it"?

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Nah. We know Jedi are the real Space Wizards.

--Patrick

figmentPez said:

Each ship in the fleet is capable of destroying a planet on its own. Why build Starkiller base at all?

And, yes, Snoke was just Palpatine's puppet. Palpatine knew he had the tech to put a superweapon on a Star Destroyer. Why build Starkiller base if he already miniaturized the tech?

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I mean, the *real* reason is just story writing 101 - Word of God says you always have to come up with a bigger menace than in the previous installment, or otherwise it's anticlimactic (story/canon justification be damned). But that's less fun than coming up with goofy theories as to why highly illogical things happen in the plot. (And wasn't there a throwaway line from Poe or someone basically saying that Palpatine had scuttled off with his crew immediately after being chucked down the vent shaft to start rebuilding, implying that Palps didn't just magic up the fleet out of thin air, but had his minions in the salt mines actually building things in secret away from the less-crazy eyes of the First Order starting around 4-5ABY or so?)

PatrThom said:

Nah. We know Jedi are the real Space Wizards.--Patrick

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So evil space wizards, then.

netsirk said:

I mean, the *real* reason is just story writing 101 - Word of God says you always have to come up with a bigger menace than in the previous installment, or otherwise it's anticlimactic (story/canon justification be damned). But that's less fun than coming up with goofy theories as to why highly illogical things happen in the plot. (And wasn't there a throwaway line from Poe or someone basically saying that Palpatine had scuttled off with his crew immediately after being chucked down the vent shaft to start rebuilding, implying that Palps didn't just magic up the fleet out of thin air, but had his minions in the salt mines actually building things in secret away from the less-crazy eyes of the First Order starting around 4-5ABY or so?)



So evil space wizards, then.

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Who knows what Poe said, the entire movie played at like 3x speed

Ravenpoe said:

Who knows what Poe said, the entire movie played at like 3x speed

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They did sort of lightspeed-skip the whole movie. Granted, I normally watch shows at 1.5x speed when I can, so I wasn't too fussed by the pace.

While I haven't watched the movie yet...the Emperor does have a history with both druids and clones, so either could work for equipping a fleet.

Bubble181 said:

While I haven't watched the movie yet...the Emperor does have a history with both druids and clones, so either could work for equipping a fleet.

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She didn't look Druish...

As someone who adores The Force Awakens and thinks highly of The Last Jedi:

This was a mess. It was like rather than complete the narrative, character, emotional, and thematic arcs of those movies, JJ decided to try to please the complaints lobbied at each of those movies (which each have had distinct complaints sent their way).

I'm sick of Colin Trevorrow, too.

This was not worth Julie spraining her ankle trying to see.

Hailey Knight said:

As someone who adores The Force Awakens and thinks highly of The Last Jedi:

This was a mess. It was like rather than complete the narrative, character, emotional, and thematic arcs of those movies, JJ decided to try to please the complaints lobbied at each of those movies (which each have had distinct complaints sent their way).

I'm sick of Colin Trevorrow, too.

This was not worth Julie spraining her ankle trying to see.

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I feel like I can't even blame Abrams here because I knew exactly the kind of movie he was going to make, he already made it in the force awakens. He was brought in to start the trilogy because he's a discount Spielberg who loves nostalgia and they wanted the first movie to be as safe as possible. The plan then was to have new directors take the next two movies. But when people complained about TLJ being too different they went into full panic because this isn't a film franchise, it's a product.

Ravenpoe said:

I feel like I can't even blame Abrams here because I knew exactly the kind of movie he was going to make, he already made it in the force awakens. He was brought in to start the trilogy because he's a discount Spielberg who loves nostalgia and they wanted the first movie to be as safe as possible. The plan then was to have new directors take the next two movies. But when people complained about TLJ being too different they went into full panic because this isn't a film franchise, it's a product.

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I got an especially Spider-Man 3 vibe from TRoS.

I guess I'm not done.

I love Star Wars for the emotional stuff, and that's the big reason I dislike the prequels (among other reasons) and like the OT, TFA, and TLJ. But Rise of Skywalker gives SO LITTLE of that for the actors to even work with.

.Finn talking about the Force (solid character moment)
.Chewie's reaction to Leia's death (that broke me)
.I'm a sucker for the "putting out the word for help with little hope and then everyone shows up at the key dramatic moment" scene, so I'll give that to the movie. It probably didn't earn it, but I can't tell because I'm biased.

But I feel TRoS failed the new characters. Rose is shoved aside, Finn is given little to do, Poe probably has the best of it since he's given leadership late in the movie, and Rey, who wanted companionship and family, is last seen on another desert planet alone, looking to the horizon; one of Luke's flaws is turned into the end of her journey. The first two movies had me love these new characters and then just shit.

I could've forgiven all the sloppy pacing, redundant plot points, mcguffin hunt, pointless extra bits ... I can forgive a lot of a Star Wars movie and even come to enjoy if the emotional beats are engaging and satisfying, worth talking about with Julie after the movie.

John Williams was on his A-game as usual. There were some solid renditions of different Star Wars themes.

Edit: okay, STILL not done

The characters keep saying "If we lose, it was all for nothing" except that's what it feels like at the end anyway if Rey is just alone. It's a fucking desert. Palpatine wasn't going to be oppressing the Hutt crime families all that much.

I really want my brain to move onto the not caring stage so I can stop feeling bummed about this. I would've rather the story ended in horrible tragedy, something with a heartbeat, than this gray lump. That's why it feels like the prequels to me.

I need to find an engaging movie to watch tonight.

Ugh, Greg Fucking Grunberg and Dominic Monaghan both have more lines and screen time than Kelly Marie Tran did.

Fuck off JJ Abbrams.

I feel like the argument was pretty weak too. They said it's because all the scenes they filmed, they wanted Rose leading the resistance base alongside Carrie by having them interact with older footage from before Carrie's death. It was all cut though, when they felt the older scenes "wouldn't digitally fit" in post production.

Remember, this is the same studio that brought Peter Cushing back from the dead for Rogue One, but couldn't digitally make old footage of Carrie work with Kelly Marie Tran. I don't buy it.

This isn't even going into the fact she seemed to have a scene interacting with Rey that was also cut, only seen in promotional material. Did that one just not work in digital editing either? I really think it was all just pandering to the asshats.

ScytheRexx said:

Remember, this is the same studio that brought Peter Cushing back from the dead for Rogue One, but couldn't digitally make old footage of Carrie work with Kelly Marie Tran. I don't buy it.

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Though Peter Cushing looked pretty awful in RO when you could actually see his features. From afar, he was great. Up close? Not so much. Glad they didn't do that with Carrie (the digital version of her younger self was bad enough).

(Would I have liked more KMT in TRoS? Absolutely! Though perhaps they'd have to run the movie at 4x speed to fit her in too...)

Or you know, not write in JJ's buddies.

Don't forget to blame Colin Trevorrow.

And the other screenwriter was off Batman vs Superman. For quality assurance. :|

Hailey Knight said:

Don't forget to blame Colin Trevorrow.

And the other screenwriter was off Batman vs Superman. For quality assurance. :|

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Batman v Superman -and- Justice league

Last weekend I read a list on Rotten Tomatoes of the 110 best scifi movies. Last Jedi made the list, not only that but was the highest rated Star Wars movie. Beating out the original and Empire. I really don't see how.

I'm not really surprised. Every Star Wars movie has some weird pacing issue (and the original has a lot of controversy due to Lucas edits), but Last Jedi had a lot of great character building moments. Regardless of the vocal minority screaming about Luke being ruined, most people love a flawed hero.

sixpackshaker said:

Last weekend I read a list on Rotten Tomatoes of the 110 best scifi movies. Last Jedi made the list, not only that but was the highest rated Star Wars movie. Beating out the original and Empire. I really don't see how.

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I stil kinda like TLJ and thought its...heavy borrowing from ANH was an over-correction from the prequels, but it was much more SW than APM and it showed potential (that hasn't quite been realized, apparently). I can see why it would make the list, maybe. How it can score higher than ESB or ANH...I guess youngsters these days really just need a good whack on the side of the head?

Bubble181 said:

I stil kinda like TLJ and thought its...heavy borrowing from ANH was an over-correction from the prequels, but it was much more SW than APM and it showed potential (that hasn't quite been realized, apparently). I can see why it would make the list, maybe. How it can score higher than ESB or ANH...I guess youngsters these days really just need a good whack on the side of the head?

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Are you confusing the last Jedi for the force awakens?

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.

Ravenpoe said:

Are you confusing the last Jedi for the force awakens?

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.

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Yes, I was.
I've only seen TLJ once and didn't dislike it as much as many others, but I sure wouldn't give it to #1 spot on any star wars movie list.

The more I learn about the writing of SW:TROS the more I'm bothered by it:

That's what I understood when I watched it.

Ravenpoe said:

Are you confusing the last Jedi for the force awakens?

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.

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I'd put it behind Empire PERSONALLY, but it's my second for sure.

figmentPez said:

The more I learn about the writing of SW:TROS the more I'm bothered by it:

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"I like to think I'm saying things, but I actually don't know how to tell stories" - Chris Terrio (BvS, Justice League)

Good grief.

Ravenpoe said:

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.

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Quick question, did you ever watch the new BSG?

@Li3n said:

Quick question, did you ever watch the new BSG?

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Nope, couldn't get into it

Ravenpoe said:

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.

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No, you are allowed to have your own opinions. No matter how wrong they may be.

Ravenpoe said:

Nope, couldn't get into it

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You should give it another chance. It is very good. But any comparisons to TLJ are just another form of whataboutism.

It seems like everyone with a major part in TROS has something against Disney over the movie except Daisy Ridley, so I wonder if she has something else coming up.

And Empire still reigns supreme as the best Star Wars movie.

Just saw it. It's definitely not the best SW movie, and there's lots of things to critique, but all in all, I enjoyed it and thought most storylines were closed with some semblance of coherence.
I'd definitely rank it above 1, 2 and probably 8. Some bits were obviously rewritten around Fisher's death, and some of the fan service was unnecessary and some characters...ugh. but overall, not the train wreck I was expecting given some of the comments and reviews I'd seen.

https://news.avclub.com/turns-out-colin-trevorrows-version-of-star-wars-episod-1841002112

Treverrow's story treatment leaked and while it probably would've still been kinda shitty, it sounds, I dunno, dozens of times better than RotS was.

It was titled Duel of the Fates, didn't have Palpatine alive in it, didn't have a sudden Kylo face turn for no reason, had Rose as a character that did things, etc.

It also had a 7000 year old dark side Lovecraftian monstrosity be Palpatine's teacher.

Did nobody understand TLJ? Kylo is the main bad guy. That's the interesting thing.

blotsfan said:

That's the interesting thing.

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Is it though?

I thought so. It was setting up something besides "he's redeemed and helps take out the main bad guy."

blotsfan said:

I thought so. It was setting up something besides "he's redeemed and helps take out the main bad guy."

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Well, that's just being more interesting then that, but on his own he was just being annoyingly emo.

It's more interesting for the antagonist to be someone the protagonists have interacted with on multiple occasions and have shared relationships toward than Ominous Space Evil, whether that be Palpatine or Sith Cthulhu. This is basic storytelling.

More complex and character-driven though;
Having a haunted outburst-prone antagonist try to command a military/government which is completely out of his character's grasp is more interesting than Perfect Evil Guy antagonist.

Its been one year. I'm still mad.

blotsfan said:

Its been one year. I'm still mad.

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Watch one of the films you do enjoy. It's like the James Bond series. You can still enjoy the ones you like even though The World is Not Enough exists.

Shawn said:

Watch one of the films you do enjoy. It's like the James Bond series. You can still enjoy the ones you like even though The World is Not Enough exists.

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The difference is that most Bond movies are not directly related via an interconnected story, so they can be enjoyed separately. That Star Wars ended so poorly sours the previous movies as well. For other examples, see Game of Thrones, Lost, The Matrix, etc.

I can readily ignore a worse spinoff movie - if Solo was a complete train wreck, it doesn't really impact much (I'm not a huge Solo fan, though I don't consider it a train wreck, just an example).
The Main Nine were supposed to tell one great big overarching heroic saga. The Lord of the Rings style.
If Return of the King had been a quick cash grab that violated half the lore of the first two books, the whole trilogy wouldn't be well known. A deconstruction like TLJ can most certainly work - but it had no business being the follow up to TFA. A "boring" retread of the originals like TFA could have been a good stepping stone - Rey and Luke were similar, in similar situation, but with some elements changed around - it could've lead somewhere interesting. Instead, because of TLJ, it's a useless repetition that doesn't help anyone. TROS could have worked mostly as-is, if TLJ had been a completely different film. Palpatine returns could have worked if it had been telegraphed. Instead it's an asspull. Etc etc.

blotsfan said:

Its been one year. I'm still mad.

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I'm less mad after this season of the mandolorian. Star Wars isn't any stranger to ignoring bad movies.

Ravenpoe said:

I'm less mad after this season of the mandolorian. Star Wars isn't any stranger to ignoring bad movies.

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It's harder to ignore TROS than to ignore the Christmas Special

Since SW is on the brain I just wanted to say I watched this great break down on Droids recently, and honestly, I can never look at it all the same way again.

ScytheRexx said:

Since SW is on the brain I just wanted to say I watched this great break down on Droids recently, and honestly, I can never look at it all the same way again.

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A great watch. And as mentioned droids are absolutely used by the narrative to be whatever the narrative requires them to be. This is not unlike how we want to feel bad for a human character in a story if he/she dies, but make that character a Nazi and suddenly it's absolutely fine. I think that artificial intelligence is a fascinating idea that fuels many in-depth discussions regarding the moral implications of servitude. Personally if something in reality could show the equivalent of full on human-worth intelligence I too would be on the side of giving them a place in society as equals.
But Star Wars isn't reality. It's just a story. And I think, like Nazis in our other favorite films, they are disposable until they have proven their worth as good guys.
I could offer a very long comprehensive on why characters in the SW universe treat droids as just a work-force, but I think it's best not to put too much thought into it either way. It's just made up fiction that's supposed to be silly and fun. Most people are smart enough to know the difference between fiction and reality. This just puts this topic straight into the same ring as discussions about if its okay to glamorize violence in films.

Shawn said:

I could offer a very long comprehensive on why characters in the SW universe treat droids as just a work-force, but I think it's best not to put too much thought into it either way.

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The Failsafe AI character in Destiny 2 puts it best, I think:



--Patrick

In other news I believe we should categorize Wampas as Pokémon.

Director: "Ok, kid, just make the Wampa roar or something."

Kid: "WAMPAAA!!"

Director: "No, a roar like a lion or a tiger."

Kid: "WAMPAAA!!"

Director: "Ok, fine, whatever."

Kid: "WAMPAAA!!"

Last week when it snowed, I went out to play with Li'l Z and at some point, he suggested pretending we were on Hoth. Thanks to the appearance on the baby Wampa in Lego Star Wars All Stars, he starts chasing me across the yard, shouting, "Rrrraaarrr! Wampaaaaa!".

Pokemon Wampa Battle Cry is apparently a natural default.