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Having a weird problem with my router and can't figure it out, yet.

Basically it will disconnect every 3 minutes and stay offline for ~1 minute. It will do this for hours at a time, then wot do it for a while, then back again. It's happening more and more....

I've run through my modem and it seems fine. Call words and power levels are good. The problem durin these disconnects is that the router and modem stop talking.

It's an Asus RTN16 with the current Asus firmware. I updated the firmware after the problem started and it didn't fix it. I then reset to factory settings. This fixed it, for a while (3 days or so). Now it's happening again.

I've had some strange problems with Hamachi in the last so I've fully uninstalled that. I may reset the router settings again and see if hamachi was corrupting it?

I'm also going to put DD-WRT or Tomato on it.

Any other ideas of stuff?

I had a ZyXEL router that would do this, and it turned out to be simply that I was taxing it too much, and it would overheat/cool down/overheat/etc.

--Patrick

I should clarify. I know the disconnect is happening between the router and the modem. When i lose connection I can log into the router but not the modem. It also affects every computer.

Ed: man it better not be a heat issue...wtf do I do abou that?

You know, I dunno about heat. If it was heat wouldn't it reboot the router? Even when disconnected I can access the router firmware.

I had similar problems with a dlink router some time ago, that it turned out it just couldn't handle the computational strain. Wasn't overheating or anything, just... was a shit router.

But I'm assuming your router previously worked fine? Otherwise I'd assume you would come to the same conclusion very quickly if this had been a chronic problem from the start.

What about your modem logs/lights? If it's resetting itself, there should be something in the logs.

Put a fan blowing across the router/modem. Get some good, strong airflow right across them. If it fixes it, then it's heat related.

If the router overheats wouldn't it reset?

Also, I haven't really gotten any strange errors on my router log, but I did find these in my modem:

QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Wed Aug 21 10:03:23 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:09:24 2013 Critical (3) Unicast Ranging Received Abort Response - initializing MAC
Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected message syntax error;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected unspecified reason;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Error (4) T6 Timeout and retries exceeded
Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:09:51 2013 Critical (3) REG RSP not received;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected message syntax error;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected unspecified reason;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Error (4) T6 Timeout and retries exceeded
Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:15 2013 Critical (3) REG RSP not received;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected message syntax error;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected unspecified reason;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Error (4) T6 Timeout and retries exceeded
Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:10:40 2013 Critical (3) REG RSP not received;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:10:56 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:11:12 2013 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected message syntax error;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Critical (3) Registration RSP rejected unspecified reason;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Error (4) T6 Timeout and retries exceeded
Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:11:24 2013 Critical (3) REG RSP not received;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:12:07 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:12:07 2013 Critical (3) TFTP failed - Request sent - No Response;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:12:07 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:12:07 2013 Critical (3) TFTP Request Retries exceeded, CM unable to register;CM-MAC=00:24:2c:af:6d:73;CMTS-MAC=00:19:2f:e6:3b:60;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Fri Aug 23 12:35:45 2013 Fri Aug 23 12:35:45 2013 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Fri Aug 23 12:37:19 2013 Fri Aug 23 18:19:52 2013 Critical (3) Unicast Ranging Received Abort Response - initializing MAC[DOUBLEPOST=1377363781,1377363480][/DOUBLEPOST]I'm having a hard time blaming the modem though. Power levels, S/N, and code words look good.

[DOUBLEPOST=1377363827][/DOUBLEPOST]hrm, upstream looks a little wonky. 2 bonded channels, one of which is getting a lot of timeouts:

yeah ok I got 14 T4 timeouts in 30 minutes on one of my two upstream channels

Necronic said:

If the router overheats wouldn't it reset?

Click to expand...

Nope.

Well, I'm replacing the modem right now. We'll see what that does. I have a vague suspicion that there may be problems with signal splitters.

After replacing the modem I restored the router to factory defaults and everything was going fine for about 3-4 hours. None of the intermittent disconnects. Then, after about 3-4 hours the modem stopped working. It would repeatedly try to reconnect and it wouldn't stick. The problem seemed to be on the Upstream side with the db level getting too high (apparently it should be below 56) and it could never establish a connection. This would lead to a bunch of T3 timeouts.

I moved to another jack in the house and it seemed to do a little better, but then turned off again after a little bit. Right now it is working (for the moment), with a power level on the upstream of 52. Downstream looks good, but the upstream seems fucked. It probably will disconnect again. My understanding is that upstream issues are often caused by shitty spliters. I have a technician scheduled for Tuesday. This is the second time I have had one come out in like 9 months. First was for bad SNR on the downstream which was caused by an open splitter that was apparently working like an antenna and just dumping noise into the line.

Anyways. I think after the technician comes out I will probably transition over to ATT u-verse. The in person techs I get from Comcast seem to be competent and can usually find my problems, but I should not be having problems like I am, and the phone support is godawful. When I told the tech support person I was looking at power levels on my modem she didn't know what I was talking about. It bothers me a bit to go to ATT because there is no way I can get my 80mbps speed from them. But v0v, I don't see another option. I pay way to fucking much for this to repeatedly happen.

edit: ugh. Uverse will cost me like 150$ in installation fees at least. I do not understand how cable is not considered a monopoly. DSL is not really a competitor. Its a completely different service. Its like saying that minivans and dirtbikes compete in the same market.

GasBandit said:

I had similar problems with a dlink router some time ago, that it turned out it just couldn't handle the computational strain.

Click to expand...

That was what ultimately forced me to retire the ZyXEL. A couple extra heatsinks mounted atop the chassis took care of the heat problem, but once the number of devices inside my network hit double digits + the rules + other demands, the processor inside the router couldn't keep up and it had to be retired. It still works great, and has some really nice features (The port forwarding and DHCP reservation tools are amazingly easy to use), but once you exceed its capabilities, it just keeps dropping out and has to "rest" before it comes back online.

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

That was what ultimately forced me to retire the ZyXEL. A couple extra heatsinks mounted atop the chassis took care of the heat problem, but once the number of devices inside my network hit double digits + the rules + other demands, the processor inside the router couldn't keep up and it had to be retired. It still works great, and has some really nice features (The port forwarding and DHCP reservation tools are amazingly easy to use), but once you exceed its capabilities, it just keeps dropping out and has to "rest" before it comes back online.

--Patrick

Click to expand...

I used to have the same issue as well until my roommate started working out of town during the week so the amount of devices connecting on a regular basis was reduced by 80%. He's got devices galore that he connects to the router, whereas I have 2 max at any given time.

Ok, looks like I have a solution, sort of, to the upstream issue. Apparently you can buy a signal amp for your upstream, which should fix my issues. There is a good video of this here:



Its going to cost me like 60$ for it, but hopefully it will help fix the issue. As for multiple devices I'm not too concerned about that. The Asus router is a beast. Good processor and a shit ton of memory. Although that could be leading to disconnects....

edit: ok so apparently putting an active return drop amp on your cable modem is a bit of a no no, and kind of a dick move. It will inject a bunch of noise into the lines and screw up your neighbors lines. It can also get you disconnected from service. I dunno if this will be a problem since my power is so damned low, even amped it will be pretty small.

Have you tried putting the cable modem further up in the chain? That is, closer to the point where the line goes to the pole?
As someone who has UVerse, I can vouch for the reliability of the network (except for the occasional 2am modem updates), but the tech support doesn't get much better (unless you go to the tech tiers, which are pay-by-incident).

--Patrick

It might be worthwhile disconnecting everything from the cable line but the router and see what the signal levels are.

Dunno if you've been here yet, but it might be useful.

--Patrick

Cable modem must be powered by a UPS? Really? I kept reading after that tidbit though and its got some pretty solid info in there. One of the points in there was about upstream power, which should be <42db. Mine is reading 54 to 56. At 57 the upstream will die, killing the modem connection.

However, the upstream signal issue is independent of the repeated disconnects. Seems like I am lucky enough to have two problems with my internet. So far it looks like after I do a factory reset on the router I get a period of no disconnects. I am somewhat tempted to believe that the problem is with overheating. But if that were the case why would a factory reset temporarily fix it? Now, there is an interesting post here where someone with the same router as mine seems to be having the exact same problems, and it has to do with the router firewall killing the DHCP renewal requests.

So, I'm shutting off my router firewall. Tomorrow I will instal the DD-WRT firmware, apparently there is a script that allows you to disable this cleaner in there.

I'm also going to go grab a fan and stick it onto the router.

edit: hrm. my lease timer is 24 hours. I'm getting 5 minute disconnects. Doesn't add up.

Necronic said:

edit: hrm. my lease timer is 24 hours. I'm getting 5 minute disconnects. Doesn't add up.

Click to expand...

Renewal request time is usually 1/2 whatever the lease time is, but that would be 12hrs, not 5 min.

--Patrick

Yeah, shutting off the firewall didn't do anything. I'm going to check one other thig and them I'm calling Asus up. I think this is going to be an RMA.

Darn. If only you had a generic, crappy router lying around so you could swap out and isolate the ASUS.

--Patrick

Actually I found my old Linksys WRT54G2 and plugged it in. It seems to boot up fine but I'm having issues with it as well. Here was my basic install path for it:

1) modem and router powered down.
2) plug in modem, wait until I get stable connection
3) power on router, once its on and stable plug it into modem.

I was able to connect to the router but no internet was getting through. I thought this may be due to MAC address issues, so I restarted the modem and plugged it into my laptop. I got stable internet. Then I unplugged the modem from my computer and plugged in my router to modem and computer. In the router firmware I cloned the MAC address from the laptop.

Still no joy. That should have fixed any MAC address issues right?

Lol. Ok.

I got the WRT54g2 to work. But for SOME FUCKING REASON, I can't enable encryption through the router firmware.

Fuck it. I'm renaming the SSID to "Raw Dog" and just going bareback.

So the WRT54g2 is now disconnecting every minute or two. I've replaced the modem. The problem seems to be with something upstream. Either outside wires or further on their end.

I'm sure the tech support will want you to go through all the stuff you've already tried (but while you're on the phone) before they'll entertain the idea that anything is wrong on their end.

--Patrick

Yeah, I was trying to explain the to my girlfriend. She though it was stupid for me to spend so much time on it. I have to remove my equipment from the equation or I won't get help easily

What's the modem doing through all this? Are the lights all on? It sounds like it is rebooting itself at the slightest hint of trouble. I had an RCA modem that would do that multiple times a day. Comcast swapped it out for an Arris, and that was the end of that... after they did some extensive work outside to fix some bad nodes in the neighborhood, too.

When you take your router out completely, and go directly to your laptop, do you get disconnects? Have you replaced the network cable coming out of your modem?

It sounds like it's most likely not your equipment, but it doesn't hurt to try if you haven't done it yet.

I just hope this doesn't end up being that his modem is set to stealth mode (not respond to ping requests) so the ISP keeps resetting his connection. I am assuming you're not famous enough (or whatever) that you're being DDoS'd.

--Patrick

Shakey said:

When you take your router out completely, and go directly to your laptop, do you get disconnects? Have you replaced the network cable coming out of your modem?

It sounds like it's most likely not your equipment, but it doesn't hurt to try if you haven't done it yet.

Click to expand...

Ok so yeah, that's the one part I can't figure out. When I connect directly from my laptop to my modem it doesn't disconnect. wtF. Maybe I need to mess with this some more to see if it will disconnect.

Necronic said:

Ok so yeah, that's the one part I can't figure out. When I connect directly from my laptop to my modem it doesn't disconnect. wtF. Maybe I need to mess with this some more to see if it will disconnect.

Click to expand...

You could go to the command line and run "ping google.com -t" Let it go for 10 minutes, or however long you want. It'll go until you do ctrl+c. When you do, it'll tell you if it lost any packets during that time.

Have you tried connecting to your router with a network cable? Maybe you've got something interfering with your wireless signal.

Yeah, I've connected router with the cable, and I've swapped out cables. No joy. So the cable guy came out this morning. Showed up an hour late so I had to leave instructions with my gf to talk to him. Apparently the upstream power is now down to 45-47. So...that's weird. I'll see if everything is working tonight.

Either way I'm going to try and get a month free out of this, then I'm switching to U-Verse. I've noticed that it has a 250 gB monthly limit on it. Does anyone know if they enforce that?

Necronic said:

I've noticed that it has a 250 gB monthly limit on it. Does anyone know if they enforce that?

Click to expand...

I have never hit the limit, so I don't know. Not a big consumer of data (no netflix, no torrents more than once a month, tops).

--Patrick

What about the install cost? It seems like a pretty big up front cost. I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I either stick with comcast and its unreliable problems, or switch to U-verse with a high up front cost, 12 month contracts, and possible data limits. Not to mention the lost bandwidth.

You know.....the whole internet situation just sucks. This is the exact reason why monopolies were abolished. Yet somehow the cable companies have been able to cut up the markets to create local monopolies. AT&T is the only source of competition, I'm not sure if it even counts since the service is so different. FIOS is dead. All we have left is Google.

Call up uverse and say, "I'm thinking about switching but can't stomach the upfront costs. Can you offer a better deal, or should I stick with comcast?" then call up comcast and say, "I'm having way too many problems to stick with you guys. You have to sort this out quickly or I'm leaving."

See which one jumps higher.

ISP bloodsports. I like it.

edit: The best part is that since there is no contract with Comcast I can take the reward and cancel anyways.

Necronic said:

You know.....the whole internet situation just sucks. This is the exact reason why monopolies were abolished. Yet somehow the cable companies have been able to cut up the markets to create local monopolies. AT&T is the only source of competition, I'm not sure if it even counts since the service is so different. FIOS is dead. All we have left is Google.

Click to expand...

It's called an "Oligopoly."
(warning, language is NSFW but video is too awesome not to post again)


And as far as Google riding in on their horse to save us, don't count on it. Their TOS forbids non-business customers from attaching any kind of server to their network. Unless and until they alter this language, this means you could violate their TOS with Slingbox, Minecraft, DNS, VPN, or even by just enabling remote login. No word on whether seeding counts as a server.

--Patrick

I'm not really counting on google.

The only thing that will fix this is a 60s era politics where people recognize that certain items aren't luxuries but are in fact utilities, and need to be managed at some level by the national government. As a resident of Texas it really bothers me to hear all these conservatives talk about how there are free-market solutions to everything, while conveniently ignoring the fact that a LARGE part of their voting demographic comes from rural areas that were brought utility services by evil socialism.

I think Obama's chance to have a real legacy was lost the moment he decided to not use the stimulus package to drop a fiber optic network across the entire nation (which could be self-sustaining after the up-front cost by selling bandwidth to a competitive market of cable companies.)

edit: Apparently there was about 7 bil in the stimulus package for this. I'm really curious how it worked out. My guess is that a bunch of cable companies got free lines laid and were able to maintain their monopolies in the area.

COMMUNIST.

When it comes to utilities I am absolutely a communist (at least in the sense that you have to have competition on the lines, I'm ok with some level of privatisation ala Houston power grid.) I'm actually pretty conservative in a lot of other areas. I just came to the surprisingly rare conclusions some years ago that hard line "one size fits all" ideologies are for idiots.

There's a good argument for claiming internet access is infrastructure like highways and railroads. The problem is that a lot of the existing ISP stuff was laid privately, and nationalizing it would have serious implications. I guess the only real way to implement it would make it so that there would have to be a new agency that basically is a nationwide ISP business. Kind of like the post office, I suppose. It would be a heck of an expenditure to get it going, but that sounds like a jobs program even a Libertarian like me could get behind.

Necronic said:

edit: Apparently there was about 7 bil in the stimulus package for this. I'm really curious how it worked out. My guess is that a bunch of cable companies got free lines laid and were able to maintain their monopolies in the area.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what happened. Where I live we have one telephone company, and it's a government enforced monopoly. I will finally be getting high speed internet at my house because of it. They got 7 mil from the government to lay new fiber out to rural areas. Government get's nothing back, and the telco will get to gouge us on the price of it. I still think it would have been better for the government to keep ownership of the lines themselves and lease them out to whoever wants to offer service.

Other companies can offer internet if they want, but they cannot offer phone service. Charter started offering internet in the city, but couldn't offer their phone service. Even cell phone companies have to use an exchange that is long distance to the area.

GasBandit said:

There's a good argument for claiming internet access is infrastructure like highways and railroads. The problem is that a lot of the existing ISP stuff was laid privately, and nationalizing it would have serious implications. I guess the only real way to implement it would make it so that there would have to be a new agency that basically is a nationwide ISP business. Kind of like the post office, I suppose. It would be a heck of an expenditure to get it going, but that sounds like a jobs program even a Libertarian like me could get behind.

Click to expand...

Wow, see this is a place where I am more conservative than you. I actually would prefer that the ISP side of things be managed by a private company, but I would want the lines themselves to be that weird sort of public/private blend that forces competition on them and keeps them regulated, but maintains a degree of autonomy. The idea of a government controlled ISP is actually quite frightening to me.

Gasbandit wants the government reading your emails.

Shakey said:

That's exactly what happened. Where I live we have one telephone company, and it's a government enforced monopoly. I will finally be getting high speed internet at my house because of it. They got 7 mil from the government to lay new fiber out to rural areas. Government get's nothing back, and the telco will get to gouge us on the price of it. I still think it would have been better for the government to keep ownership of the lines themselves and lease them out to whoever wants to offer service.

Other companies can offer internet if they want, but they cannot offer phone service. Charter started offering internet in the city, but couldn't offer their phone service. Even cell phone companies have to use an exchange that is long distance to the area.

Click to expand...

Mother of god. Who in their right mind thought that was ok.

Necronic said:

Wow, see this is a place where I am more conservative than you. I actually would prefer that the ISP side of things be managed by a private company, but I would want the lines themselves to be that weird sort of public/private blend that forces competition on them and keeps them regulated, but maintains a degree of autonomy. The idea of a government controlled ISP is actually quite frightening to me.

Click to expand...

I believe that's the way a lot of European countries do it. The big ISP/telephone providers have to lease their lines to other companies that want to provide competing service. We tried that for a bit, but the Ilecs pissed and moaned until it got removed.

Necronic said:

Mother of god. Who in their right mind thought that was ok.

Click to expand...

It's funny how the phone company maintains the monopoly. Apparently it only apples to small phone companies in rural areas, so they keep all the small local companies they've bought operating as the original company, even though the service is offered to customers under the parent companies name. If it was all absorbed into the parent company, they would lose their monopoly.

Necronic said:

Wow, see this is a place where I am more conservative than you. I actually would prefer that the ISP side of things be managed by a private company, but I would want the lines themselves to be that weird sort of public/private blend that forces competition on them and keeps them regulated, but maintains a degree of autonomy. The idea of a government controlled ISP is actually quite frightening to me.

Gasbandit wants the government reading your emails.

Click to expand...

I didn't say I wanted the government being the ONLY ISP, just that they would have a service.

Oh, and that 7 mil that was spent to get me internet access finally? It's only expected to serve a couple hundred people.

GasBandit said:

There's a good argument for claiming internet access is infrastructure like highways and railroads. The problem is that a lot of the existing ISP stuff was laid privately, and nationalizing it would have serious implications.

Click to expand...

In other news, all railway lines in all of the US were government-laid and never, ever privately owned. *cough*


Anyway, yeah, like sewers, gas and electricity lines, highways and railroads, in Belgium and most of Europe, the infrastructure is maintained by a public or semi-public company. Unless you want 3 competing railways to put rails down next to one another, it's pretty much the only way to avoid monopolies. Unfortunately, the government-backed infrastructure providers manage to ask monopoly prices for government efficiency and quality. Y'know, the worst of both worlds.
In Europe, there's (still) a very strong push to further liberate all kinds of markets, even those where it's been shown to be a pretty bad idea. Of course, in some cases, the only solution would be to fire anyone and everyone who ever worked in a sector and start all over, but that's not really possible.

ok, well on Tuesday the dude came out and replaced all the lines outside. Upstream power went down to 45. The WRT-54G2 worked without a hitch for 5 days. I have now switched back over to my Asus router (higher bandwidth). We'll see if I get the disconnects. I doubt I will.

So it was (not) inside you all along?

--Patrick