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Obama Supports Kindergarten Sex Ed « FOX News Radio

This is interesting, but I think 5 years old might be a bit young IMO. I personally work with faculty in community college level which is fine for teaching this stuff, but kinda iffy for kindergarten to 6th grade (i.e. elementary school level)

I know this stuff are suppose to be taught by parents, but some parents are not really teaching their kids much of anything (or rebellious kids either way) I notice a lot of technique and stuff have change over the years. I know that my parents would be in trouble if they were to raise me like they did back in the 80s.

I believe that 7-12 would be a good time to start since sadly, kids as young as 12-13 starting to have intercourse

I've seen this bit of spin before. My favorite part is the outrage over when they will teach that sex can include things other than genitalia, but leave out the part where they finish with "so you can catch all these nasty diseases that can potentially kill you those ways too". Remember, if you never tell a kid that touching someone else's junk is an option, they'll never think to do so on their own.

5 year olds do not need to know about male and female reproductive and sexual body parts.

However, basic things like "stranger danger" would be appropriate. Other than "make sure you don't get raped/abused," a kid can really wait until they're 10-12 to hear about the rest

If you don't tell a kid some of the basics at 8-10 you have screwed up. You mostly want them to know what is happening. So if some creep molests them, or a kid that has a head start in "the game" tries anything, the victim will be able to talk about it.

Thirteen is too late these days. Hell 13 has been too late to talk about sex, since sex was invented.

The thing is, and I'll admit it's been a while since I've seen the full thing, but when you look at what they're actually proposing, it's not a big deal. Am I thrilled with the idea of teaching kids about genitalia at five? I don't know - we teach them all about body parts at that age. They're not telling to have sex, or even how sex works. Just the names of the body parts. Should it matter? What makes it different from teaching them elbows or ears? Do we need to brand them as dirty at five?

First, let's point out that Obama has not personally approved this particular curriculum that's being proposed in Montana. He simply supports "age appropriate" sex education at all levels, which I think is reasonable and something most people here would support. Of course we may have differing ideas of what is and is not appropriate.

Second, the article you linked is so lazy and partisan it's borderline offensive. I especially love the claim that this new curriculum would teach "pro-gay sex education... to children as young as five years old." The reality is that the curriculum just teaches that marriage is "a commitment by two people.” Apparently by not vilifying homosexual couples, the school is now teaching pro-gay sex. Fucking bigots.

Third, from a teacher's perspective (though I teach high school and I'm not certified to teach below 7th grade), I think simple age-appropriate lessons are good for small kids. Simply teaching the names of body parts, which they are learning anyway, combined with lessons on not letting people touch their genitalia is perfectly fine. I wouldn't want kids learning about actual sex for a few more years, but I definitately don't want some sort of embargo on sex ed until an age when stupid conservatives feel more comfortable.

But if they know it's called a penis they'll CATCH TEH GAY!!!!!!!

(Am I doing this right? I'm new to it.)

EDIT: Apologies. My browser had a hiccup and created a double post.

Troll said:

First, let's point out that Obama has not personally approved this particular curriculum that's being proposed in Montana. He simply supports "age appropriate" sex education at all levels, which I think is reasonable and something most people here would support. Of course we may have differing ideas of what is and is not appropriate.

Second, the article you linked is so lazy and partisan it's borderline offensive. I especially love the claim that this new curriculum would teach "pro-gay sex education... to children as young as five years old." The reality is that the curriculum just teaches that marriage is "a commitment by two people.” Apparently by not vilifying homosexual couples, the school is now teaching pro-gay sex. Fucking bigots.

Third, from a teacher's perspective (though I teach high school and I'm not certified to teach below 7th grade), I think simple age-appropriate lessons are good for small kids. Simply teaching the names of body parts, which they are learning anyway, combined with lessons on not letting people touch their genitalia is perfectly fine. I wouldn't want kids learning about actual sex for a few more years, but I definitately don't want some sort of embargo on sex ed until an age when stupid conservatives feel more comfortable.

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I fully agree and endorse this post.

For the record, my daughter is 3 years old and she already knows that her "pee-pee" is her private area, no one is allowed to touch her there, and to tell us if someone has. My nephew is 6 and he knows the same drill in addition to what a penis is, what testicles are etc... It's part of his body! How can you not tell a kid what those parts are!?!? They're not evil parts, it's not sinful or wicked to be curious about your own body!

I distinctly remember in 5th grade (I suppose I was 10 or 11) we had the full "sex and puberty" course done in health class.

I think it's a great idea. Kids growing up with taboos about their own bodies is horrible, they should know that a penis is called penis and a vagina is called vagina. Not "pee-pee" or "winnie" or whatever. Avoiding the name of something as natural and as simple as that will obviously make them think it's bad or dirty, a healthy sex life starts at a young age and a child that is not ashamed of his own body will take better care of himself.

I hope their kindergarten teacher shows them how to properly use and apply a condom.

I got the full sex ed class thing done in 5th grade, I don't see any problems with it at about that age (9 to 11 or so).

Same here. I got no problems with people teaching kids basic body stuff either, but I would prefer parents do the teaching but we all know that ain't gonna happen (in general).

Morphine said:

I think it's a great idea. Kids growing up with taboos about their own bodies is horrible, they should know that a penis is called penis and a vagina is called vagina. Not "pee-pee" or "winnie" or whatever. Avoiding the name of something as natural and as simple as that will obviously make them think it's bad or dirty, a healthy sex life starts at a young age and a child that is not ashamed of his own body will take better care of himself.

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I'm also on board for getting kids comfortable with the real terms and not being ashamed of their bodies. That's how my niece was raised. She knows what a vagina is-- or in her case, a "ba-gina." :laugh: She also knows that the kiddie swings will tickle it if she keeps scooting forward against the buckle, so that's interesting when there are other families around....

Morphine said:

I think it's a great idea. Kids growing up with taboos about their own bodies is horrible, they should know that a penis is called penis and a vagina is called vagina. Not "pee-pee" or "winnie" or whatever. Avoiding the name of something as natural and as simple as that will obviously make them think it's bad or dirty, a healthy sex life starts at a young age and a child that is not ashamed of his own body will take better care of himself.

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You're fucking deranged if you think my 3 year old should be referring to her vagina as such.

The main reason I haven't told my 4 year old daughter the names of her parts is because she blurts out everything she knows to everyone she sees, and that is not a conversation I want to see her having on the playground. If she asked me what her parts were called though, I would probably tell her. Right now "private parts" works for her, and understanding that they are private parts actually helped break her streak of running around pantsless if she had an accident (/facepalm). My 8 year son however, has been referring to his privates as his penis for a long time, I think since potty training.

Dei said:

The main reason I haven't told my 4 year old daughter the names of her parts is because she blurts out everything she knows to everyone she sees, and that is not a conversation I want to see her having on the playground. If she asked me what her parts were called though, I would probably tell her. Right now "private parts" works for her, and understanding that they are private parts actually helped break her streak of running around pantsless if she had an accident (/facepalm). My 8 year son however, has been referring to his privates as his penis for a long time, I think since potty training.

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Once, I was walking through the supermarket with my lil' brother (who was like 3 or 4 at the time) sitting on the shopping cart and he asked me "An, do you have a penis?"
-"No, I don't have a penis"
-"Why not?"
-"Because women don't have penises, only men do"
-"Hmm... don't worry, we'll get you a penis"

Everyone in the aisle heard him. I laughed my ass off.

Chazwozel;414796][QUOTE=Morphine said:

I think it's a great idea. Kids growing up with taboos about their own bodies is horrible, they should know that a penis is called penis and a vagina is called vagina. Not "pee-pee" or "winnie" or whatever. Avoiding the name of something as natural and as simple as that will obviously make them think it's bad or dirty, a healthy sex life starts at a young age and a child that is not ashamed of his own body will take better care of himself.

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You're fucking deranged if you think my 3 year old should be referring to her vagina as such.[/QUOTE]

Now why is that?

I've always known my penis was called a penis. My parents never fucked around with calling it a pee-pee or wee wee spot or any such nonsense. Why does it bother you if your daughter calls her vagina such?

When I was 4 or 5 my best friend told me that what I had was called a penis and what she had was called a vagina. I think it's awful, no that she told me, but that I hadn't known earlier (Actully I didn't believe her for some reason).

Besides, chaz, knowing the name of something and calling it by that name are two different things.

Frank;417004][QUOTE=Chazwozel;414796][QUOTE=Morphine said:

I think it's a great idea. Kids growing up with taboos about their own bodies is horrible, they should know that a penis is called penis and a vagina is called vagina. Not "pee-pee" or "winnie" or whatever. Avoiding the name of something as natural and as simple as that will obviously make them think it's bad or dirty, a healthy sex life starts at a young age and a child that is not ashamed of his own body will take better care of himself.

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You're fucking deranged if you think my 3 year old should be referring to her vagina as such.[/QUOTE]



Now why is that?

I've always known my penis was called a penis. My parents never fucked around with calling it a pee-pee or wee wee spot or any such nonsense. Why does it bother you if your daughter calls her vagina such?[/QUOTE]

Because she's 3 years old. She doesn't need to know the proper name of since that's what she started calling it. I'm not going to correct her and give her the proper terminology because it doesn't matter at 3 years old. I was just offended at the original comment stating that it's wrong for children to state otherwise.

I usually dismiss parenting comments from people that don't have kids, but for some reason that just struck a chord with me.

Of course, not to mention at that age, the part that little girls would actually be curious about is not actually called a vagina, it's the clitoris and the labia, but I digress.

Ahhh that's alright then. Very reasonable. From your answer it seemed to me that 'vagina' was a dirty word which should never be said by 3 yeard olds, which seemed absurd. I'll blame my English for the reading comprehension fail.

I just wish people without kids would shut the fuck up with the parenting advice. You don't know how it is until you have one of your own. Period.

Morphine;415920][QUOTE=Dei said:

The main reason I haven't told my 4 year old daughter the names of her parts is because she blurts out everything she knows to everyone she sees, and that is not a conversation I want to see her having on the playground. If she asked me what her parts were called though, I would probably tell her. Right now "private parts" works for her, and understanding that they are private parts actually helped break her streak of running around pantsless if she had an accident (/facepalm). My 8 year son however, has been referring to his privates as his penis for a long time, I think since potty training.

Click to expand...

Once, I was walking through the supermarket with my lil' brother (who was like 3 or 4 at the time) sitting on the shopping cart and he asked me "An, do you have a penis?"
-"No, I don't have a penis"
-"Why not?"
-"Because women don't have penises, only men do"
-"Hmm... don't worry, we'll get you a penis"

Everyone in the aisle heard him. I laughed my ass off.[/QUOTE]

:laugh:

Yes, Chaz, the fact that I have worked with children since I was 15 puts me in no position to have an opinion on this, you are very right and I should never open my mouth when it comes to children because I'm not a parent no matter what other experience I might have.

Chazwozel said:

I just wish people without kids would shut the fuck up with the parenting advice. You don't know how it is until you have one of your own. Period.

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It's not advice but opinions.

Morphine said:

Yes, Chaz, the fact that I have worked with children since I was 15 puts me in no position to have an opinion on this, you are very right and I should never open my mouth when it comes to children because I'm not a parent no matter what other experience I might have.

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No, really, you don't have an opinion on the matter. I don't care how much experience you have with kids. You may like the kids you work with, even love them, but in no way shape or form does that equal you to their parents own concerns for them.

It's like that one South Park episode: You don't get it.

She can still have an opinion. Maybe you know better, maybe she can't give advice to you because she doesn't get it or whatever, but she can have an opinion.
(You are telling people what to do about things all the time, and you probably don't really 'get' their situations, so how about that)

Chazwozel;417217][QUOTE=Frank;417004][QUOTE=Chazwozel;414796][QUOTE=Morphine said:

I think it's a great idea. Kids growing up with taboos about their own bodies is horrible, they should know that a penis is called penis and a vagina is called vagina. Not "pee-pee" or "winnie" or whatever. Avoiding the name of something as natural and as simple as that will obviously make them think it's bad or dirty, a healthy sex life starts at a young age and a child that is not ashamed of his own body will take better care of himself.

Click to expand...

You're fucking deranged if you think my 3 year old should be referring to her vagina as such.[/QUOTE]



Now why is that?

I've always known my penis was called a penis. My parents never fucked around with calling it a pee-pee or wee wee spot or any such nonsense. Why does it bother you if your daughter calls her vagina such?[/QUOTE]

Because she's 3 years old. She doesn't need to know the proper name of since that's what she started calling it. I'm not going to correct her and give her the proper terminology because it doesn't matter at 3 years old. I was just offended at the original comment stating that it's wrong for children to state otherwise.

I usually dismiss parenting comments from people that don't have kids, but for some reason that just struck a chord with me.
[/QUOTE]

Cool, I gotcha, like I said, just curious is all.

tegid said:

She can still have an opinion. Maybe you know better, maybe she can't give advice to you because she doesn't get it or whatever, but she can have an opinion.
(You are telling people what to do about things all the time, and you probably don't really 'get' their situations, so how about that)

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Opinions mean dick if when it comes to certain things. Parenting is one of them. Everything you think you know about kids about raising them gets blown out of the water when you have your own. Trust me, I used to be one of those guys who thought they knew how to raise a proper child before I had kids, and I had experience with nephews etc... as well.

The same is true with many things. When I was an undergraduate student, I had experience in biochemistry; I thought I knew it all. My opinions on science and research were dramatically altered when I entered into the graduate level. It was something I didn't 'get' until I experienced it for myself. Having opinions without the actual experience is a teenage state of mind.

My opinion was not about parenting. It was about what I have seen with children in general.
Apparently I can't have an opinion on anything that has to do with children because I'm not a parent... yeah.
Nor do teachers, at least not those who don't have children of their own, they know nothing.

Morphine said:

My opinion was not about parenting. It was about what I have seen with children in general.
Apparently I can't have an opinion on anything that has to do with children because I'm not a parent... yeah.
Nor do teachers, at least not those who don't have children of their own, they know nothing.

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They don't when it comes to parenting.

So Chaz, are people not supposed to form opinions or get educated on child rearing principles before having kids? I guess they need to stumble into it like a bunch of redneck parents.

sixpackshaker said:

So Chaz, are people not supposed to form opinions or get educated on child rearing principles before having kids? I guess they need to stumble into it like a bunch of redneck parents.

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if you think that's what I'm saying, you need to learn some reading comprehension. All I'm saying is that your opinions mean dick when it's your turn to be up at bat in regard to the experience, which is why people without kids can have their opinions of how to raise a child, but they need to shut the fuck up when it comes to dishing out advice.

I feel the same way about people who watch sports and criticize the players' actions, despite never playing a sport. You can know all the rules to the game like the back of your hand, but unless you've played, you need to shut the fuck up.

Then I expect you to stay out of the sports discussions. You've never played in the NFL, NHL, or MLB.

Your arguments might have a little more authority if you weren't typing away like a loon.

All Chaz is saying that actually being a parent provides a level of perspective that all the research, observation, and knowledge in the world can't possibly provide. Without that perspective, any opinion is going to come coupled with a caveat on that lack of perspective.

I can see where he's coming from. I know how to interact with a student, but I don't know what it feels like to be a parent. I don't think equating it with sports talk is necessarily a good idea, because it's less damaging to bullshit about sports than a child. No one's well-being is at stake if someone yells at the man running on TV, but if someone who doesn't know any better gives someone dangerous advice about parenting, that's a huge problem.

Nothing wrong with shooting the shit as long as people here understand to take what we say with a grain of salt.

Chazwozel;417607][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:

So Chaz, are people not supposed to form opinions or get educated on child rearing principles before having kids? I guess they need to stumble into it like a bunch of redneck parents.

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if you think that's what I'm saying, you need to learn some reading comprehension. All I'm saying is that your opinions mean dick when it's your turn to be up at bat in regard to the experience, which is why people without kids can have their opinions of how to raise a child, but they need to shut the fuck up when it comes to dishing out advice.

I feel the same way about people who watch sports and criticize the players' actions, despite never playing a sport. You can know all the rules to the game like the back of your hand, but unless you've played, you need to shut the fuck up.[/QUOTE]

I heard that some coaches can teach but never played or at least played way back when but know the game. Does that count? or they can't coach either?

Does this personal experience rule apply to healthcare or the many wars we are involved in? Those have life or death effects on lives. Doesn't get much more damaging than that.

Ok, Chaz, as someone with children (both a boy and a girl) I am teaching my kids the proper terminology for their body parts. My daughter has a vagina. My son has a penis. We have always referred to them as such. Why? Because everyone (in general) gives different cutesy names to body parts. You say your daughter's privates are called a pee-pee. If she tells an adult, other than you or your wife, that someone touched her pee-pee will they know for sure what she's talking about? Maybe. And maybe not. I don't assume that anyone will know what my kid is talking about, so I am teaching them the proper names for their genitalia. I think it is important for their own safety.

As a childless person who, due to experiences with family, has some itsy-bitsy inkling about how she might like to raise a child one day, I think that this is a good decision.

Chazwozel;417607][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:

So Chaz, are people not supposed to form opinions or get educated on child rearing principles before having kids? I guess they need to stumble into it like a bunch of redneck parents.

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if you think that's what I'm saying, you need to learn some reading comprehension. All I'm saying is that your opinions mean dick when it's your turn to be up at bat in regard to the experience, which is why people without kids can have their opinions of how to raise a child, but they need to shut the fuck up when it comes to dishing out advice.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you said that people know nothing about parenting without the unique perspective blah blah. That's not so different from saying they aren't supposed to have opionions! You have also repeatedly said our opinions mean dick. Well, as I said (did I? I think I did), opinions can have more or less value depending on things such as experience and knowledge. Yes, it's reasonable to say that the opinion of a parent is far more valid than that of someone who doesn't have children, but it's not all-or-nothing, dude. My opinion is still worth something even if I don't have children. Maybe I've helped raise some baby brothers of mine, or I'm just doing that. What the fuck do you know? Actually, I think my opinion even with no experience is, must be, more valid in some way or another than the opinion of some redneck fathers I've seen.

Two more points for you:
1- There are as many different opinions among parents than there are among nonparents. So, probably, the opinion of someone without children will be shared by someone who actually does have them. BAM! My opinion is suddenly valid! (Don't pay much attention to this one)
2- Do you think you don't do this? You hate when people give their opinion, critizise, whatever, sports or parenting without the actual experience. You realize that about these two things because you DO have the experience, but do you think you don't do this, maybe without knowing? When you 'give advice' to people who are shut-ins with people problems, aren't you doing this? Do you have any experience about having this kind of problems, being this way? And you do it pretty aggressively too! (read: Mav)

I think I get what you are trying to say and I understand it somehow, but you are being far too extreme about it.

TL;DR: Someone's opinion rarely means nothing, maybe you shouldn't go around telling people to shut the fuck up.

I perfectly understand what he means, just like I wouldn't want men to try to give me advice about cramps or my period or motherhood or whatever, of course I get what he's saying, How many times do I have to say that what I said was not an advice and was not about parenting?

Seriously Chaz, with all the love that's in my heart: you need to take a chill pill.

The problem with satellite parenting is that each child is different and each situation is different. It's bullshit even for me to look at a kid in a store throwing a fit and say, "That's not the right way to do it." There are too many variables I don't have. Yes, that parent might suck and have no idea of how discipline affects kids. Or the kid could be special needs and have thrashing/yelling as a symptom. Or actually be ADHD (not just lazily diagnosed as such to get them on medication). Or the kid could be sick and not know how to express themself. Mom might not be able to just drop everything and drag junior out of the store because she really needs to buy what's in the cart. Or Junior throwing a tantrum might be something reinforced by the parents and this is a babysitter.

Just too much you don't know.


Like my son and daughter. My son couldn't handle stuff like this at a young age while my daughter could. So we have had to treat them differently since they were very young. Does that mean our approach was correct or incorrect? No. It just means that we did the best we could and hope that they don't turn out to be bell tower shooters. Kids don't come with an instruction manual. News flash! Parents don't know what the fuck they are doing no matter how much they want the kids to think they are. We hope to God we're not doing it wrong and fucking them up but we don't know!

My big problem with the education/sex ed talk is that in the interest of society, measurability and cost effectiveness we standardize everything. But that doesn't work as kids learn things differently. Sex ed is great but if the kid ain't ready the kid ain't ready.

That's an entirely different argument than the 'experience' thing, though.

Don't these programs usually let the parents opt their kids out if they don't think the kid is ready or want them to learn about sex (on any level) in school? I seem to remember it being that way when I was in middle school and high school.

Chibibar;417613][QUOTE=Chazwozel;417607][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:

So Chaz, are people not supposed to form opinions or get educated on child rearing principles before having kids? I guess they need to stumble into it like a bunch of redneck parents.

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if you think that's what I'm saying, you need to learn some reading comprehension. All I'm saying is that your opinions mean dick when it's your turn to be up at bat in regard to the experience, which is why people without kids can have their opinions of how to raise a child, but they need to shut the fuck up when it comes to dishing out advice.

I feel the same way about people who watch sports and criticize the players' actions, despite never playing a sport. You can know all the rules to the game like the back of your hand, but unless you've played, you need to shut the fuck up.[/QUOTE]

I heard that some coaches can teach but never played or at least played way back when but know the game. Does that count? or they can't coach either?[/QUOTE]

I don't think they make a very effective coach, no. How can you teach someone something if you have no experience in it?

Dave said:

News flash! Parents don't know what the fuck they are doing no matter how much they want the kids to think they are. We hope to God we're not doing it wrong and fucking them up but we don't know!

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Dave, that is one statement I could seriously kiss you for!

tegid said:

Two more points for you:
1- There are as many different opinions among parents than there are among nonparents. So, probably, the opinion of someone without children will be shared by someone who actually does have them. BAM! My opinion is suddenly valid! (Don't pay much attention to this one)
2- Do you think you don't do this? You hate when people give their opinion, critizise, whatever, sports or parenting without the actual experience. You realize that about these two things because you DO have the experience, but do you think you don't do this, maybe without knowing? When you 'give advice' to people who are shut-ins with people problems, aren't you doing this? Do you have any experience about having this kind of problems, being this way? And you do it pretty aggressively too! (read: Mav)

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So because I don't have asperger's syndrome I can't give guys like Mav ideas on what has worked for me from my social experiences? That's not a case of an inexperienced person acting as an expert. That's a case of an expert teaching someone through experience.

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Wasabi Poptart;417640][QUOTE=Dave said:

News flash! Parents don't know what the fuck they are doing no matter how much they want the kids to think they are. We hope to God we're not doing it wrong and fucking them up but we don't know!

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Dave, that is one statement I could seriously kiss you for![/QUOTE]

Word. So, let me extrapolate here. Wasabi, I'm sure you've had a case where one of your kids was sick in the middle of the night and you were terrified for their safety and well-being. Should I call a doctor? Should I wait it out? Should I induce vomiting? How would someone who has not had children be able to relate to that experience. Sure, you can read it in a book. You can know CPR, or when to induce vomiting, but that doesn't mean you can proclaim: "I'd do this in that specific situation, or I'd give my kid a piece of my mind".

Gah! If you guys don't know what I'm talking about go watch Good Will Hunting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM-gZintWDc&feature=PlayList&p=6EB3F1FB599C49E6&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=38

But, see, you are saying you can't understand those feelings if you haven't been there. I understand that! Neither does someone who hasn't felt social anxiety understand it. Can you still have an opinion, give advice? Yes you can! Anyway, if you don't like this one argument, ditch it.

I'll try to come from a diferent angle: I obviously have not felt what you describe for my own children, but that doesn't mean I can't relate! How do you know I haven't been in that situation with my younger brother, or my mom in a situation in which she could not decide for herself, or whatever? I know it's different, but come on, I can at least have an idea of what I'd do in a certain situation, based on what I know and my previous experience? OF COURSE I cannot tell you what you should do, but I can have an opinion of what I would do, even if in the situation things change dramatically and I would act differently. Much more so when it's not a more or less dramatic situation like the one you described.

In half a year I'll have 2 baby brothers with special needs, and I have some strong opinions on how they should be brought up. Am I going to voice these? Fuck yes.

---------- Post added at 05:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

PS.: I'm tired and my writing is probably very unclear. It may also seem that I'm pushing an absurd argument again and again. I don't think I am, I think I actually agree with the underlying idea of you people's posts, I'm arguing more of a nuance than anything, I guess?

Chazwozel;417639][QUOTE=Chibibar;417613][QUOTE=Chazwozel;417607][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:

So Chaz, are people not supposed to form opinions or get educated on child rearing principles before having kids? I guess they need to stumble into it like a bunch of redneck parents.

Click to expand...

if you think that's what I'm saying, you need to learn some reading comprehension. All I'm saying is that your opinions mean dick when it's your turn to be up at bat in regard to the experience, which is why people without kids can have their opinions of how to raise a child, but they need to shut the fuck up when it comes to dishing out advice.

I feel the same way about people who watch sports and criticize the players' actions, despite never playing a sport. You can know all the rules to the game like the back of your hand, but unless you've played, you need to shut the fuck up.[/QUOTE]

I heard that some coaches can teach but never played or at least played way back when but know the game. Does that count? or they can't coach either?[/QUOTE]

I don't think they make a very effective coach, no. How can you teach someone something if you have no experience in it?[/QUOTE]
Bill Belichick and Mike Shanahan

Bill Belichick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
bill: never played in NFL (play college) I was told that college vs NFL are totally different beast and yet this man got his team to 3 super bowls.

Mike Shanahan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
minimal game. Taken out early back in college and enter coach (never play NFL)

Todd Haley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
never play football on any level and got his team to super bowl (but lost) and was even offer head coach position (but retracted after the team lost)

this just tells me that some people (not me) with a lot of visual experience and play little or none (in case with Todd) CAN do certain things cause they have the knowledge or gift within them. There have been exception in our history and I believe that people who work exclusively with children on many levels may give some good parenting advice. Now, is it good for your kids? probably not, since not all kids are equal, but on the general level some advice can be valid and shouldn't be discarded.

I know you would disagree with me on this, but sometimes another person can give a fresh perspective or outlook on this from a different angle. Now that advice/opinion may not work for you, but it could work for others. Also don't forget the social experience. In many Asian culture, it takes the whole family to raise a kid.

But on the flip side, even parents WITH kids don't raise their kids properly (for whatever reason or faction) and some turn out to be criminals, murderers, rapist, or politician

Dude: I'M NOT SAYING THAT A PERSON NEEDS TO BE A PRO ATHELETE TO COACH PROS OR ANYONE, BUT THAT THEY HAVE AT LEAST PLAYED THE GAME AT ONE POINT IN THEIR LIVES. ANY SPORT FOR THAT MATTER. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST'S BALLS ON A PLATTER!

Todd Haley never played football, but he was on the golf team in college. He's experienced sport first hand. He understands the mentality of winning and losing. Do you understand? If you've never played a sport, ever, how are you expected to impart knowledge of sport to others? You can't, which is why Todd Haley is THE ONLY small exception in that he's never played Football and coaches it.

I don't have sound at the office, so I can't find the video... but has anyone seen the Louis CK bit where he talks about the non-parent looking at a tired and jaded parent saying, "What a terrible mother... when I have a child I will answer every single one of their questions!"

This thread reminds me of that.

Cajungal said:

I don't have sound at the office, so I can't find the video... but has anyone seen the Louis CK bit where he talks about the non-parent looking at a tired and jaded parent saying, "What a terrible mother... when I have a child I will answer every single one of their questions!"

This thread reminds me of that.

Click to expand...

I forget the comedian, but his skit went like this:

You can which people have kids and those that don't. If you're at the grocery store and a kid acts up around his parents. The parent is having a hard time shutting the kid up. He's screaming and whining. The person without the kids goes, "Oh that poor child, what are those parents doing to you?" People with kids go, "Oh you poor parent, look what that horrible kid has done to you."

Chazwozel;417642][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart;417640][QUOTE=Dave said:

News flash! Parents don't know what the fuck they are doing no matter how much they want the kids to think they are. We hope to God we're not doing it wrong and fucking them up but we don't know!

Click to expand...

Dave, that is one statement I could seriously kiss you for![/QUOTE]

Word. So, let me extrapolate here. Wasabi, I'm sure you've had a case where one of your kids was sick in the middle of the night and you were terrified for their safety and well-being. Should I call a doctor? Should I wait it out? Should I induce vomiting? How would someone who has not had children be able to relate to that experience. Sure, you can read it in a book. You can know CPR, or when to induce vomiting, but that doesn't mean you can proclaim: "I'd do this in that specific situation, or I'd give my kid a piece of my mind".
[/QUOTE]

I do agree with you to an extent, Chaz. It's easy to say "If I were you I'd..." when you haven't been there. No one can exactly understand how it feels to have a child who is very ill unless they have experienced it themselves. When we thought my son had meningitis this past spring, and he was hospitalized, it was probably the most frightened I have ever been. That said, I wouldn't dare to believe I understand what parents with a child who has a disability or terminal illness are going though. However, based experiences I have had in my life, I can empathize and I do have valid opinions that may apply. I think there is a difference between expressing an opinion based on personal views and giving out advice without first hand knowledge to back it up. From what I have seen in this thread, most people are expressing opinions and not saying that any of us as parents should or shouldn't do what we think is right for our own children.

Chazwozel said:

Dude: I'M NOT SAYING THAT A PERSON NEEDS TO BE A PRO ATHELETE TO COACH PROS OR ANYONE, BUT THAT THEY HAVE AT LEAST PLAYED THE GAME AT ONE POINT IN THEIR LIVES. ANY SPORT FOR THAT MATTER. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST'S BALLS ON A PLATTER!

Todd Haley never played football, but he was on the golf team in college. He's experienced sport first hand. He understands the mentality of winning and losing. Do you understand? If you've never played a sport, ever, how are you expected to impart knowledge of sport to others? You can't, which is why Todd Haley is THE ONLY small exception in that he's never played Football and coaches it.

Click to expand...

yes. I understand it, but you are saying like you have to be IN the field to understand it.

maybe I am understanding you incorrectly (it happens) so lets use the football and golf.

football = actual parent, you have your own kids
golf = you take care of children BUT not a parent

That is how I see it.
Sure both are sports = "taking care of kids" but one aspect (football) you know more about it since they are your kids, their needs, and what you learn from your parents and other parents.
so a parent (football player) would know more about taking care of kids on personal level. Cause they have worries and anxiety of their own children (their team) and can better serve the child since they know the in and outs (knowing football)
but say a teacher or uncle (golf player) work with kids and even help raise other kids (in their home but not their own) would know a bit more about children than people say, never work with kids (people don't play any sports) so while they know the taking care of kids (the sport) they might not know the intricate details (football) but they know the rules and situation cause they do similar thing (sport)

So to me, people who work with kids a lot, would know some aspect of raising a child to a degree. Do they know all? probably not, unless they have their own kids (football).

I hope that is more clear. It does sound logical in my head, but you know..... sometimes it is hard to put into words.

Wasabi Poptart;417676][QUOTE=Chazwozel;417642][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart;417640][QUOTE=Dave said:

News flash! Parents don't know what the fuck they are doing no matter how much they want the kids to think they are. We hope to God we're not doing it wrong and fucking them up but we don't know!

Click to expand...

Dave, that is one statement I could seriously kiss you for![/QUOTE]

Word. So, let me extrapolate here. Wasabi, I'm sure you've had a case where one of your kids was sick in the middle of the night and you were terrified for their safety and well-being. Should I call a doctor? Should I wait it out? Should I induce vomiting? How would someone who has not had children be able to relate to that experience. Sure, you can read it in a book. You can know CPR, or when to induce vomiting, but that doesn't mean you can proclaim: "I'd do this in that specific situation, or I'd give my kid a piece of my mind".
[/QUOTE]

I do agree with you to an extent, Chaz. It's easy to say "If I were you I'd..." when you haven't been there. No one can exactly understand how it feels to have a child who is very ill unless they have experienced it themselves. When we thought my son had meningitis this past spring, and he was hospitalized, it was probably the most frightened I have ever been. That said, I wouldn't dare to believe I understand what parents with a child who has a disability or terminal illness are going though. However, based experiences I have had in my life, I can empathize and I do have valid opinions that may apply. I think there is a difference between expressing an opinion based on personal views and giving out advice without first hand knowledge to back it up. From what I have seen in this thread, most people are expressing opinions and not saying that any of us as parents should or shouldn't do what we think is right for our own children.[/QUOTE]

I thought that's what I've been saying. Anyway, I agree.

---------- Post added at 02:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 PM ----------

Chibibar;417680][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

Dude: I'M NOT SAYING THAT A PERSON NEEDS TO BE A PRO ATHELETE TO COACH PROS OR ANYONE, BUT THAT THEY HAVE AT LEAST PLAYED THE GAME AT ONE POINT IN THEIR LIVES. ANY SPORT FOR THAT MATTER. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST'S BALLS ON A PLATTER!

Todd Haley never played football, but he was on the golf team in college. He's experienced sport first hand. He understands the mentality of winning and losing. Do you understand? If you've never played a sport, ever, how are you expected to impart knowledge of sport to others? You can't, which is why Todd Haley is THE ONLY small exception in that he's never played Football and coaches it.

Click to expand...

yes. I understand it, but you are saying like you have to be IN the field to understand it.

maybe I am understanding you incorrectly (it happens) so lets use the football and golf.

football = actual parent, you have your own kids
golf = you take care of children BUT not a parent
[/QUOTE]

Stop. That's a horrible analogy.

Chazwozel;417674][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

I don't have sound at the office, so I can't find the video... but has anyone seen the Louis CK bit where he talks about the non-parent looking at a tired and jaded parent saying, "What a terrible mother... when I have a child I will answer every single one of their questions!"

This thread reminds me of that.

Click to expand...

I forget the comedian, but his skit went like this:

You can which people have kids and those that don't. If you're at the grocery store and a kid acts up around his parents. The parent is having a hard time shutting the kid up. He's screaming and whining. The person without the kids goes, "Oh that poor child, what are those parents doing to you?" People with kids go, "Oh you poor parent, look what that horrible kid has done to you."[/QUOTE]

YES! Spending more time with my sister and my niece flipped me on this. I love my godchild dearly, but she is completely insane.

I love hanging out with my friend and his daughter in a grocery store. When she starts acting up, he'll look down and say,

"Do you want an knuckle sandwich?!?"
"With extra pepper and cheeze?"

The horrified looks on the eavesdropper's faces is priceless.

He just uses that question to clue her in that he is getting a little upset, but he would rather joke about it, than make a scene.

sixpackshaker said:

I love hanging out with my friend and his daughter in a grocery store. When she starts acting up, he'll look down and say,

"Do you want an knuckle sandwich?!?"
"With extra pepper and cheeze?"

The horrified looks on the eavesdropper's faces is priceless.

He just uses that question to clue her in that he is getting a little upset, but he would rather joke about it, than make a scene.

Click to expand...

I like to use that kind of humor with my kids, but I'm always freaked out about some dipshit calling child services on my ass.

That's actually really cute. ^_^

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

Man, Chaz... a friend of mine actually had a problem with that as a kid. One of his friends called social services after he heard some fight at his house. The things he overheard were completely out of context, and he just panicked, called someone, and completely blew it out of proportion instead of asking.