Something big is going down at Apple
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
- Status
fade
Staff member
And I made it clear they were both personal preference, and that the plenty of people like the alternatives both in terms of PCs and the analogies.
Added at: 18:03
I've never trolled. I just defend my position. Like I said before, apparently that bugs people here for some reason.
Added at: 18:03
I've never trolled. I just defend my position. Like I said before, apparently that bugs people here for some reason.
Yes but apparently when you defend anything Apple you must be trolling. So way to go you troll.
J
JCM
Agree pretty much 100% with Fade. And a notebook or netbook is just too incovenient and clunky for portable computing after you've got used to an iPad.
Invite these guys to watch "Pirates of the silicon Valley" and ask them whether they'd like to work for him.
While Luiza and I love the ipad, iphone and up to two years back I used mostly Macs (now that I rarely draw and have a kid, so its a cheaper Sony Vaio for me), Steve Jobs is pretty much a despicable boss in any way possible.
Invite these guys to watch "Pirates of the silicon Valley" and ask them whether they'd like to work for him.
Yeppers. I was stienman previously on these forums, going back to the image days: http://halforums.wikidot.com/stienman Cajungal, at some point in the past, said she thought First Lady Puffinstuff would be a great name, so I stole it and have been using it since. It amuses me.
On the other hand, I'm treading in dangerous waters here, because I'm now known as "pollyanna" on another site http://meta.stackoverflow.com/users/2915/pollyanna for the reason that I never downvote topics and answers there, which rankles some of the other users. I'm Adam Davis most places, including real life.
I suppose in some small way I'm fulfilling rule #29: On the internet, all girls are men, and all kids are undercover FBI agents.
By the way FLP congrats on programmers.stackexchange.com making it out of beta. I had my doubts at first, but it's proved to be a valuable and viable SE site.
Thanks. I haven't been able to spend much time there, unfortunately, but I'm glad to see there's another outlet for some questions that simply don't belong on SO. It's too bad it's not a little more free-form, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
J
Jiarn
I think the big issue is that overpriced cost of something that tends to be inferior in most ways.
J
Jiarn
Sorry I should have added "to me". But seriously, what justifies the $1000+ price hike over a powerful PC or handheld device?
$1000 + price hike on what?
What mac has a 1000 dollar price hike?
Even some basic googling reveals lots of stuff thats says when speced out similarly they all pretty much cost the same. In fact I remember a study computerworld (found it: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9023959/Mac_vs._PC_cost_analysis_How_does_it_all_add_up_) did that showed the dell actually cost more. Sure somethings cost a little more, but then you get you get into the nitty gritty of what you prefer, form factor, design, overall quality not to mention the customer support, etc.
Plus: Have fun NOT running programs that are mac only on your PC while I run both mac and PC programs on mine. Thats pretty valuable for some people.
Cost is only one way to determine worth and the myth of the higher cost mac is pretty much just that in most cases.
Even some basic googling reveals lots of stuff thats says when speced out similarly they all pretty much cost the same. In fact I remember a study computerworld (found it: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9023959/Mac_vs._PC_cost_analysis_How_does_it_all_add_up_) did that showed the dell actually cost more. Sure somethings cost a little more, but then you get you get into the nitty gritty of what you prefer, form factor, design, overall quality not to mention the customer support, etc.
Plus: Have fun NOT running programs that are mac only on your PC while I run both mac and PC programs on mine. Thats pretty valuable for some people.
Cost is only one way to determine worth and the myth of the higher cost mac is pretty much just that in most cases.
J
Jiarn
I stand corrected then.
Here's the deal though man, in the end you just get what you need you know? If a PC works best or you primarily do gaming? Get a PC. My mom had a dell for YEARS and we just paid probably twice as much over a new Dell for a Mac Mini. Why? She wants a computer that weighs next to nothing so she can easily move it (she has a really bad back) and I can log into it and fix things/provide support from my mac among other reasons (she loves the mac programs over Office and web photo apps, etc).
Now I've used PC Laptops at work for ages and I can say this: I've never yet used a PC laptop in all my years that even comes close to matching the power mixed with the form factor and design of my Macbook Pro. Yes, it's my personal preference but for me it's an enjoyable thing to have a computer that works so well for me and that I enjoy using.
I don't think there is such a thing as Mac is better than PC or vice versa, in the end it's about what works for you and what you enjoy using.
Added at: 15:54
I can't comment on whether or not the iPad is overpriced as I haven't yet found anything that seems to be real competition to it. Hopefully there will be more coming from other vendors and it can help drive that cost down though, it's more than I want to pay for one.
Now I've used PC Laptops at work for ages and I can say this: I've never yet used a PC laptop in all my years that even comes close to matching the power mixed with the form factor and design of my Macbook Pro. Yes, it's my personal preference but for me it's an enjoyable thing to have a computer that works so well for me and that I enjoy using.
I don't think there is such a thing as Mac is better than PC or vice versa, in the end it's about what works for you and what you enjoy using.
Added at: 15:54
I can't comment on whether or not the iPad is overpriced as I haven't yet found anything that seems to be real competition to it. Hopefully there will be more coming from other vendors and it can help drive that cost down though, it's more than I want to pay for one.
I think the crux of the matter is kind of outlined in this sentence from that article:
"The key to the perception that Macs are more expensive is that Apple offers very few in-between models.
I think for a good number of people, those in-between possibilities are important.
Also, that same article pointed out a roughly equivalent HP laptop for $700 less. Just sayin'
"The key to the perception that Macs are more expensive is that Apple offers very few in-between models.
I think for a good number of people, those in-between possibilities are important.
Also, that same article pointed out a roughly equivalent HP laptop for $700 less. Just sayin'
i was mistaken, i retract my statements, i assumed the line about the ipad being like satellite tv vs sticking a paperclip in the coax jack to be a bit overzealous. apparently i was mistaken, i retract my statements. also if mac wanted me as a customer they would offer their software for use on any rig, i would gladly use it if this was possible, as it is I am not buying ANOTHER computer just to use the operating system for the few things i would need it for.
Thats totally fair and actually one of the reasons I do use a Mac, because I can run windows and OSX (and linux for you mouth breathers out there
) on it.
C
Chibibar
I believe a while back people think that the "low" end of Mac is too high compare to "low end" of PC. The problem is that the low end of mac (if I remember correctly) is consider med level to PC.... thus the price point is around the same. That is how I see it.
but at the end of the day, there are something that PC are better and sometimes Mac is better.
up until recently, PC is a way to go for gaming since Steam only work on PC (not anymore) and many games are PC only. Steam has gone the way of both Mac and PC (which my wife loves) and more and more games are able to run on both. That is just my perspective from the gaming arena.
Now of course PC is more customizable than a Mac. I can change out video card, memory, HDD, motherboard and a whole slew of stuff. There are more components to choose from (thus price difference) but I don't see many OEM Apple stuff (I don't think there is any. Are there any?) thus Apple keep their parts and brand pretty tight (less competition, cost more)
but at the end of the day, there are something that PC are better and sometimes Mac is better.
up until recently, PC is a way to go for gaming since Steam only work on PC (not anymore) and many games are PC only. Steam has gone the way of both Mac and PC (which my wife loves) and more and more games are able to run on both. That is just my perspective from the gaming arena.
Now of course PC is more customizable than a Mac. I can change out video card, memory, HDD, motherboard and a whole slew of stuff. There are more components to choose from (thus price difference) but I don't see many OEM Apple stuff (I don't think there is any. Are there any?) thus Apple keep their parts and brand pretty tight (less competition, cost more)
I agree. I mean, I love having a lot of choices, but when it comes down to it, am I going to be able to notice the speed difference between a 2.6 and a 2.8 Ghz processor when I'm firing up Word? Apple's tiered approach makes a lot of sense.
Apple doesn't really change their prices as the cost of the hardware goes down. You'll find a very small price difference when apple comes out with new laptops or computers, and a large difference at the end of their life cycle. As has been said before though, most Apple buyers care more about ease of use an over all experience to cost.
No, apple has huge margins. They refresh their entire line on 12 to 18 month cycles. Even when a brand new machine comes out, it's expensive.
Let's put it this way. When Apple recently released their core i5 machines, I was building a core i7 with much more ram for much less. Now, I was building it, so there's a little difference right off the top, but even going to a pre-built machine from Dell would have yielded a measurably better machine for the same price, or a cheaper machine with the same specs.
Let's put it this way. When Apple recently released their core i5 machines, I was building a core i7 with much more ram for much less. Now, I was building it, so there's a little difference right off the top, but even going to a pre-built machine from Dell would have yielded a measurably better machine for the same price, or a cheaper machine with the same specs.
Apple will always be more expensive, I'm not arguing that. Just saying the best time to buy apple is at a new release.
Also, apple does have better off the shelf hardware. They aren't just reselling the same parts dell is. I forget where I saw the article, but I remember seeing how apple tests their hard drives to a higher standard than most, especially in the servers they sold.
This is all coming from someone who doesn't own an apple, and probably never will. They do put out good hardware that very few can match, you just have to want to pay the price.
Also, apple does have better off the shelf hardware. They aren't just reselling the same parts dell is. I forget where I saw the article, but I remember seeing how apple tests their hard drives to a higher standard than most, especially in the servers they sold.
This is all coming from someone who doesn't own an apple, and probably never will. They do put out good hardware that very few can match, you just have to want to pay the price.
Yes Adam, in general you can go find something with similar specs for cheaper. But you get what you pay for. Are you paying a little more in general for a Mac? Of course you are. But you get top of the line hardware, a super stable OS that many prefer to use, a great package of installed software, no bloatware, the highest rated customer and tech support, great design and form factor among other preferences people might have that a Mac meets.
Does that mean it's worth the extra money? Maybe not to you. Shockingly though, those are things that some people want.
One of the guys over at PC World said this and I think it sums up a bit of what I'm talking about:
The important thing here is that the cost difference is very small these days and sometimes flipped around if you go through Dell or one of the major retailers.
There are a lot of valid reasons to buy a computer and the cost is only one of them. If you want the cheapest thing you can find with the cheapest hardware then you can and will find it. If you value other stuff then there are more options out there you just have to be willing to pay for them whether its a Mac or a Windows computer.
Does that mean it's worth the extra money? Maybe not to you. Shockingly though, those are things that some people want.
One of the guys over at PC World said this and I think it sums up a bit of what I'm talking about:
The important thing here is that the cost difference is very small these days and sometimes flipped around if you go through Dell or one of the major retailers.
There are a lot of valid reasons to buy a computer and the cost is only one of them. If you want the cheapest thing you can find with the cheapest hardware then you can and will find it. If you value other stuff then there are more options out there you just have to be willing to pay for them whether its a Mac or a Windows computer.
I love my iPad. I can hold it like a book and read eBooks, play games, etc. And developers are really coming up with some neat ways to use it. While I still have eBooks and games on my iPhone for when I get stuck in a waiting room, it's still nicer to use apps on an iPad. But most importantly, my kid loves the iPad, which makes a 14 hour car trip much more pleasant when he can have a bunch of books, games and movies all in one small package!
I had relatives drooling over mine over the holidays, and none of them are "computer people" let alone "Apple fanbois".
(Actually, most of them have Windows). They all liked how easy it was to use, which is a very big deal for someone who is not a hardcore computer geek. It's small enough to hold it in your lap to read email, but not so small that you can't see the text easily. My toddler niece was "finger painting" with one of my art apps (she kept checking her finger for the "paint" 
) and the controls were big enough that she could easily select new colors and brushes. iOS is also far less intimidating to non-geeks. Not once did anyone worry about clicking the "wrong" thing or "breaking" it, and they like the intuitive tapping/swiping/pinching. And nobody ever complained about not being able to compile their own OS on it either. *snerk*
I had relatives drooling over mine over the holidays, and none of them are "computer people" let alone "Apple fanbois".
(Actually, most of them have Windows). They all liked how easy it was to use, which is a very big deal for someone who is not a hardcore computer geek. It's small enough to hold it in your lap to read email, but not so small that you can't see the text easily. My toddler niece was "finger painting" with one of my art apps (she kept checking her finger for the "paint" ) and the controls were big enough that she could easily select new colors and brushes. iOS is also far less intimidating to non-geeks. Not once did anyone worry about clicking the "wrong" thing or "breaking" it, and they like the intuitive tapping/swiping/pinching. And nobody ever complained about not being able to compile their own OS on it either. *snerk*I never quite got the people that use Dell as their example why Apple is overpriced (I get the ones that use building their own as comparable, they're just morons). It's like saying the BMW 3 series is overpriced compared to the Kia Forte. I know for a while people would compare a barebones PC sans monitor to the iMac as if that was a viable comparison.
For what it's worth if you want to buy a desktop, get a mac. If you want a PC, build one.
If you want a Laptop I suggest Lenovo or Apple.
For what it's worth if you want to buy a desktop, get a mac. If you want a PC, build one.
If you want a Laptop I suggest Lenovo or Apple.
My brother has been using Lenovo since they took over the IMB Thinkpad laptops and he says that ever since Lenovo took over they have been surprisingly mediocre computers compared to when they came out under IBM. Anyone else have any experience with them?
- Status