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StarCraft 2: Heart of the Swarm (WoL Spoilers)
#1
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
So I just finished StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty, and while I felt it started out slow, it really started to intensify down the line and left me satisfied at the conclusion. However, the ending left me curious how Heart of the Swarm will occur. I am going to speak about the ending and the information we know about Heart of the Swarm, so don't read on if you don't want any type of spoiler.
Now, here is what we know about Heart of the Swarm. We play as Kerrigan, and the missions are going to involve going from place to place in order to grow in power. There are rumors it may even involve RPG-style elements much like WC3, with leveling and special abilities for Kerrigan. Now, with the ending we see above, I am not sure how that is going to happen.
My best guess?
Man the next two games are going to be intense.
So in the end, you take the Xel'Naga Artifact to Char. Kerrigan had been trying throughout the game to get the artifacts, but always was one step behind Raynor, so she is rather happy you brought it to her doorstep.
You have to hold off while the item is charged, and after some brutal assaults, you charge the artifact and unleash it. The shockwave kills all the Zerg in the area, much like the Xel'Naga Temple from Brood War, however, it leaves Kerrigan's human tissue intact, effectively converting her back to her human self minus her "hair", which retains the Zerg like tendrils.
Tychus finally reveals why he joined with Jimmy, that Mengsk released him to join with Raynor, so that he could kill Kerrigan when the time was right. Raynor jumps in front of the shot and with his pistol shoots Tychus, killing him (I feel bad for the big lug). The last shot is Raynor carrying off Kerrigan into the distance, the two looking at eachother like a barrier was broken between them before Kerrigan once again passes out from the strain of her purification.
You have to hold off while the item is charged, and after some brutal assaults, you charge the artifact and unleash it. The shockwave kills all the Zerg in the area, much like the Xel'Naga Temple from Brood War, however, it leaves Kerrigan's human tissue intact, effectively converting her back to her human self minus her "hair", which retains the Zerg like tendrils.
Tychus finally reveals why he joined with Jimmy, that Mengsk released him to join with Raynor, so that he could kill Kerrigan when the time was right. Raynor jumps in front of the shot and with his pistol shoots Tychus, killing him (I feel bad for the big lug). The last shot is Raynor carrying off Kerrigan into the distance, the two looking at eachother like a barrier was broken between them before Kerrigan once again passes out from the strain of her purification.
Now, here is what we know about Heart of the Swarm. We play as Kerrigan, and the missions are going to involve going from place to place in order to grow in power. There are rumors it may even involve RPG-style elements much like WC3, with leveling and special abilities for Kerrigan. Now, with the ending we see above, I am not sure how that is going to happen.
My best guess?
That while regaining her human form, her time among the Swarm has made her have a bond much deeper then any before her, as that was her purpose as created by the Overmind. Now with the "corruption" gone, she will join with Raynor and take over the Swarm as a much more merciful but troubled individual rather then evil queen bitch. She will reclaim the Swarm and build them to be a force to fight the coming darkness, rather then embrace it, as she was originally going to do. With her having complete control over the Swarm, she will be able to stop the hybrids from taking it over for the Dark One.
Man the next two games are going to be intense.
#2
Gared
Gared
Do we have any idea when the next two are going to be released? I mean, is Activision/Blizzard sticking to their one major release per year cycle, or is that one major release per property? I finished the game in about a day and a half (on casual, I'm not too good at RTS games), and am going back through and going for all of the accomplishments, trying to play on harder modes, might even possibly play some multi-player games once I improve my skills; but damnit, the end of this portion of the plot arc kicks ass and I want more.
#3
Chibibar
Chibibar
I dunno. I am doing one mission a day and play casual, normal and hard (and lose) I am going to be sad when I finish this and have to waitDo we have any idea when the next two are going to be released? I mean, is Activision/Blizzard sticking to their one major release per year cycle, or is that one major release per property? I finished the game in about a day and a half (on casual, I'm not too good at RTS games), and am going back through and going for all of the accomplishments, trying to play on harder modes, might even possibly play some multi-player games once I improve my skills; but damnit, the end of this portion of the plot arc kicks ass and I want more.
#4
Roxxoredizorz
Roxxoredizorz
They say that Heart of the Swarm will be out in 2012, because next year (hopefully) is Diablo 3. Then probably 2013 will be another WoW expansion, or even Diablo expansion, then 2014 Legacy of the Void. They say they want an 18 month gap between the release of each game.
#5
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
Fuck...really? Balls. I'm gonna be in my 30's before Starcraft 2's story is done? UGH.
#6
CynicismKills
CynicismKills
Nice job putting Nova in the game to twist the "ha ha you're never playing SC: Ghost" knife, Blizzard. Jerk-asses. D:
#7
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
If they release that mod they showed off at Blizzcon of a developer using the SC2 engine to "make" a playable version of SC:Ghost, that would totally rock. I can't wait for the extra maps, mods, and scenarios to become available.
#8
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
People are already using the new map editor to make various offshoots that I have to say are pretty cool. I saw someone developing an online multiplayer FPS with full class support and weapon customization, and even someone developing a working side scroller with touch power-ups. There are even some weird remakes of other games, and just other crazy things. I mean look at some of these.If they release that mod they showed off at Blizzcon of a developer using the SC2 engine to "make" a playable version of SC:Ghost, that would totally rock. I can't wait for the extra maps, mods, and scenarios to become available.
#9
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
That's pretty effin' awesome.
#10
LordRendar
LordRendar
Thats exactly what i was thinking. Bastards.Nice job putting Nova in the game to twist the "ha ha you're never playing SC: Ghost" knife, Blizzard. Jerk-asses. D:
#11
AshburnerX
Considering what you can actually do with the game engine, it's entirely possible they could release "Starcraft: Ghost" as a sort of downloadable singleplayer experience to help hype the first expansion. Hell... it worked for the Orc Campaign in Frozen Throne, didn't it?
AshburnerX
Thats exactly what i was thinking. Bastards.[/QUOTE]Nice job putting Nova in the game to twist the "ha ha you're never playing SC: Ghost" knife, Blizzard. Jerk-asses. D:
Considering what you can actually do with the game engine, it's entirely possible they could release "Starcraft: Ghost" as a sort of downloadable singleplayer experience to help hype the first expansion. Hell... it worked for the Orc Campaign in Frozen Throne, didn't it?
#12
Jay
Jay
Just finished the game. I thought it was great albeit it being short. They gave the game a great feel as you got to know the characters and built up your tech. However, no zerg control at ALL??? (in the end i was a zerg emulator whore, so i controlled a few at least)
Damnit, I truly dislike this "map pack" bullshit. Why do I have to wait so long to play more? I was really not feeling too optimistic when I heard this and in the end, despite it being a SOLID game, it's not a great game, simply because it's storyline is 1/3 of what it needed to be. They need to announce the 2nd part ASAP. 2012? Jesus Christ. We're gonna wait 2 years? Then the 3rd part will be what... in 4 years?
At least people can mod the shit out of this engine.
Damnit, I truly dislike this "map pack" bullshit. Why do I have to wait so long to play more? I was really not feeling too optimistic when I heard this and in the end, despite it being a SOLID game, it's not a great game, simply because it's storyline is 1/3 of what it needed to be. They need to announce the 2nd part ASAP. 2012? Jesus Christ. We're gonna wait 2 years? Then the 3rd part will be what... in 4 years?
At least people can mod the shit out of this engine.
#13
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
I don't agree. We got just as many missions as we did in SC1, and those missions allowed us to get more into the characters of Jim Raynor and his crew, rather then the quick characterization they originally had. People like Matt Horner didn't even have any characterization at all, even though he was around since the events of SC1. We got a full storyline, but just like the end of SC1, they are going to keep us prepared for the next continuation of it. Blizzard is known to leave almost all their games with some form of cliffhanger for this reason.Damnit, I truly dislike this "map pack" bullshit. Why do I have to wait so long to play more? I was really not feeling too optimistic when I heard this and in the end, despite it being a SOLID game, it's not a great game, simply because it's storyline is 1/3 of what it needed to be.
#14
Roxxoredizorz
Considering what you can actually do with the game engine, it's entirely possible they could release "Starcraft: Ghost" as a sort of downloadable singleplayer experience to help hype the first expansion. Hell... it worked for the Orc Campaign in Frozen Throne, didn't it?[/QUOTE]
Actually, someone already has. It's an alpha thing, and single player but you control Nova, and can move around a map (no clipping) and shoot. Not much else, but it's a start.
I've also been playing a lot of SotIS, Storm of the Imperial Sanctum, (a DotA for Starcraft 2) and it is a lot of fun. It's still in Beta, but it works very well, and only has a few issues.
I've played a bit of tower defense here and there, and I think I'll try Nexus wars soon, too.
Roxxoredizorz
Thats exactly what i was thinking. Bastards.[/QUOTE]Nice job putting Nova in the game to twist the "ha ha you're never playing SC: Ghost" knife, Blizzard. Jerk-asses. D:
Considering what you can actually do with the game engine, it's entirely possible they could release "Starcraft: Ghost" as a sort of downloadable singleplayer experience to help hype the first expansion. Hell... it worked for the Orc Campaign in Frozen Throne, didn't it?[/QUOTE]
Actually, someone already has. It's an alpha thing, and single player but you control Nova, and can move around a map (no clipping) and shoot. Not much else, but it's a start.
I've also been playing a lot of SotIS, Storm of the Imperial Sanctum, (a DotA for Starcraft 2) and it is a lot of fun. It's still in Beta, but it works very well, and only has a few issues.
I've played a bit of tower defense here and there, and I think I'll try Nexus wars soon, too.
#15
Adammon
I've found myself very disappointed with SC2. Not the gameplay, which is decent (almost identical to SC1), but just how short the game is. SC1 was limited by technology and space, SC2 was limited by wanting to suck money out of players. There's no reason that I shouldn't have a single player campaign with zerg and protoss when I can play them out of the box on multiplayer. How does that work exactly? What is the next 'expansion' pack really going to bring? The engine doesn't need to be changed or updated. They don't have to add units. They just had to write a story.
And the story..ugh. I wish they'd stop going back to the well for fall of/redemption of stories. Arthas and Kerrigan just share too much of a character arc that it seems kinda recycled.
Adammon
I don't agree. We got just as many missions as we did in SC1, and those missions allowed us to get more into the characters of Jim Raynor and his crew, rather then the quick characterization they originally had. People like Matt Horner didn't even have any characterization at all, even though he was around since the events of SC1. We got a full storyline, but just like the end of SC1, they are going to keep us prepared for the next continuation of it. Blizzard is known to leave almost all their games with some form of cliffhanger for this reason.[/QUOTE]Damnit, I truly dislike this "map pack" bullshit. Why do I have to wait so long to play more? I was really not feeling too optimistic when I heard this and in the end, despite it being a SOLID game, it's not a great game, simply because it's storyline is 1/3 of what it needed to be.
I've found myself very disappointed with SC2. Not the gameplay, which is decent (almost identical to SC1), but just how short the game is. SC1 was limited by technology and space, SC2 was limited by wanting to suck money out of players. There's no reason that I shouldn't have a single player campaign with zerg and protoss when I can play them out of the box on multiplayer. How does that work exactly? What is the next 'expansion' pack really going to bring? The engine doesn't need to be changed or updated. They don't have to add units. They just had to write a story.
And the story..ugh. I wish they'd stop going back to the well for fall of/redemption of stories. Arthas and Kerrigan just share too much of a character arc that it seems kinda recycled.
#16
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Honestly... as long as they charge the expansions at the cost of an actual expansion ($15-25), I'm cool with it.
#17
Chibibar
I've found myself very disappointed with SC2. Not the gameplay, which is decent (almost identical to SC1), but just how short the game is. SC1 was limited by technology and space, SC2 was limited by wanting to suck money out of players. There's no reason that I shouldn't have a single player campaign with zerg and protoss when I can play them out of the box on multiplayer. How does that work exactly? What is the next 'expansion' pack really going to bring? The engine doesn't need to be changed or updated. They don't have to add units. They just had to write a story.
And the story..ugh. I wish they'd stop going back to the well for fall of/redemption of stories. Arthas and Kerrigan just share too much of a character arc that it seems kinda recycled.[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly, Bliz broke into 3 stories because if they didn't, it would have push SC2 further behind.
This is my guess
The 2nd expansion (zerg) "may" contain new unit like Blizz did with Broodwars.
the 3rd expansion (Protoss) may release more units (that would be cool)
Ending of SC2 - WoL - Adammon: Yea, the redemption can get old, but I feel this one did a pretty good job.
edit: fix my error. 2nd is zerg while 3rd is protoss
Chibibar
I don't agree. We got just as many missions as we did in SC1, and those missions allowed us to get more into the characters of Jim Raynor and his crew, rather then the quick characterization they originally had. People like Matt Horner didn't even have any characterization at all, even though he was around since the events of SC1. We got a full storyline, but just like the end of SC1, they are going to keep us prepared for the next continuation of it. Blizzard is known to leave almost all their games with some form of cliffhanger for this reason.[/QUOTE]Damnit, I truly dislike this "map pack" bullshit. Why do I have to wait so long to play more? I was really not feeling too optimistic when I heard this and in the end, despite it being a SOLID game, it's not a great game, simply because it's storyline is 1/3 of what it needed to be.
I've found myself very disappointed with SC2. Not the gameplay, which is decent (almost identical to SC1), but just how short the game is. SC1 was limited by technology and space, SC2 was limited by wanting to suck money out of players. There's no reason that I shouldn't have a single player campaign with zerg and protoss when I can play them out of the box on multiplayer. How does that work exactly? What is the next 'expansion' pack really going to bring? The engine doesn't need to be changed or updated. They don't have to add units. They just had to write a story.
And the story..ugh. I wish they'd stop going back to the well for fall of/redemption of stories. Arthas and Kerrigan just share too much of a character arc that it seems kinda recycled.[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly, Bliz broke into 3 stories because if they didn't, it would have push SC2 further behind.
This is my guess
The 2nd expansion (zerg) "may" contain new unit like Blizz did with Broodwars.
the 3rd expansion (Protoss) may release more units (that would be cool)
Ending of SC2 - WoL - Adammon: Yea, the redemption can get old, but I feel this one did a pretty good job.
Raynor was going to "finish" this one way or another. In the beginning, he thought about he will be the one to pull the trigger (hopefully) but once he learn about the artifacts and the memory crystal series. It might be possible to save Kerrigan. Raynor always felt bad about leaving Kerrigan behind and responsible for it.
As for what they are going to do? I presume that Kerrigan is STILL in charge of the swarm and have control over it (The hair is still zerg-like) so I guess the last installment we will get to play Zerg and fight against the Hybrid. Heck, it would be cool to play all three and fight against the hybrid in the last battle.
As for what they are going to do? I presume that Kerrigan is STILL in charge of the swarm and have control over it (The hair is still zerg-like) so I guess the last installment we will get to play Zerg and fight against the Hybrid. Heck, it would be cool to play all three and fight against the hybrid in the last battle.
edit: fix my error. 2nd is zerg while 3rd is protoss
#18
Jay
Jay
Zerg is 3rd expansion... *homer-like* AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
#19
Chibibar
The StarCraft II Trilogy consists of the base StarCraft II game and two subsequent expansion sets. StarCraft II is subtitled Wings of Liberty (working title) and will include a lengthy single-player campaign that focuses on the terrans and puts players in the role of Jim Raynor, one of the series' main heroes. The first expansion set, Heart of the Swarm (working title), will follow later and include a single-player campaign focusing on the zerg and Kerrigan, Queen of Blades. The second expansion set, Legacy of the Void (working title), will continue the story experience with a single-player campaign centered on the protoss.
Chibibar
I am wrong!!! from starcraft 2 siteZerg is 3rd expansion... *homer-like* AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
The StarCraft II Trilogy consists of the base StarCraft II game and two subsequent expansion sets. StarCraft II is subtitled Wings of Liberty (working title) and will include a lengthy single-player campaign that focuses on the terrans and puts players in the role of Jim Raynor, one of the series' main heroes. The first expansion set, Heart of the Swarm (working title), will follow later and include a single-player campaign focusing on the zerg and Kerrigan, Queen of Blades. The second expansion set, Legacy of the Void (working title), will continue the story experience with a single-player campaign centered on the protoss.
#20
ScytheRexx
Maybe I am biased myself, but I don't think trying to stuff in an extra 60 missions into one game is reasonable, nor do I agree with the idea that they would cut down the decent campaign it did have just to fit as many races and characters in as possible.
Then you move to the Protoss, and Kerrigan falls off the face of the universe, while Raynor comes in for the last mission or two just to say "hey guys don't forget about me while you play with Zeratul and Tassadar!" They want each game to be a cohesive storyline through the eyes of one main character, and after experiencing it, I agree it was the better choice.
Really, you can argue the quality of making SC1 and improving it rather then innovating with something new, but I would never call the game small or complain about the fact they want the storyline of each game to be more cohesive, like a trilogy, then forcing us to play Zerg when they are working counter the goals of the main protagonist.
ScytheRexx
Sorry, but your bias already shows in the first sentence. "They want to suck money out of us!" is a rather tired arguement people like to use a lot, regardless of the actual obvious quality of the game. They make a lot of money off us already, and they could have gotten away with much less then they did in SC2:WOL, but they didn't. I agree with Angry Joe when it comes to the gameplay, "If it ain't broke, it don't need fixing".I've found myself very disappointed with SC2. Not the gameplay, which is decent (almost identical to SC1), but just how short the game is. SC1 was limited by technology and space, SC2 was limited by wanting to suck money out of players.
Maybe I am biased myself, but I don't think trying to stuff in an extra 60 missions into one game is reasonable, nor do I agree with the idea that they would cut down the decent campaign it did have just to fit as many races and characters in as possible.
There actually is a very good reason, one that Blizzard explained since they made this announcement. They don't want each race to be disjointed, and they want each game to feel like a cohesive story around one main protagonist. Think back to SC1. You go all that time getting to know Raynor, but then the Zerg Campaign starts, and while Kerrigan carries over, Raynor becomes a throw-away.There's no reason that I shouldn't have a single player campaign with zerg and protoss when I can play them out of the box on multiplayer. How does that work exactly?
Then you move to the Protoss, and Kerrigan falls off the face of the universe, while Raynor comes in for the last mission or two just to say "hey guys don't forget about me while you play with Zeratul and Tassadar!" They want each game to be a cohesive storyline through the eyes of one main character, and after experiencing it, I agree it was the better choice.
You are really arguing what an "expansion" is really going to bring? What did Brood War bring to SC1? What did Lord of Destruction bring to D2? What did The Frozen Throne bring to WC3? A lot, including new units/classes, tilesets, game options, etc... Since the game uses rather detailed character models that are fully animated and usable in the Galaxy Editor, that means more of those will be needed for all the interactive cutscenes.What is the next 'expansion' pack really going to bring? The engine doesn't need to be changed or updated. They don't have to add units. They just had to write a story.
Really, you can argue the quality of making SC1 and improving it rather then innovating with something new, but I would never call the game small or complain about the fact they want the storyline of each game to be more cohesive, like a trilogy, then forcing us to play Zerg when they are working counter the goals of the main protagonist.
This I can mostly agree, though I am happy Raynor finally "won" for once.And the story..ugh. I wish they'd stop going back to the well for fall of/redemption of stories. Arthas and Kerrigan just share too much of a character arc that it seems kinda recycled.
#21
Jay
Look, I won't change my opinion and he's entitled to his. There was NO need for 3 parts to this game. They could have had ONE expansion... TWO? I think it's a hard sell and makes me feel like I'm ordering from a restaurant with side orders being the knife and fork to eat my GOD DAMNED 70$ steak!
Jay
Sorry but YOUR bias already shows in the first sentence. Need I go into more detail?Sorry, but your bias already shows in the first sentence.
Look, I won't change my opinion and he's entitled to his. There was NO need for 3 parts to this game. They could have had ONE expansion... TWO? I think it's a hard sell and makes me feel like I'm ordering from a restaurant with side orders being the knife and fork to eat my GOD DAMNED 70$ steak!
#22
Dei
Dei
I think Kerrigan sounds more like Sylvanas personally. 
#23
ScytheRexx
Trust me though, if they made it one expansion, you are not suddenly going to get more content, you would be getting less. Maybe I am fine with getting more out of a series I enjoy rather then less, as long as those extras carry a decent quality. If all the games are WoL quality, I will be happy. You may not be, but then, you have the choice simply not to buy them.
ScytheRexx
As I already pointed out in the post, but nice try.Sorry but YOUR bias already shows in the first sentence.
You have a right to your opinion, but should we have asked Peter Jackson to cut the crap and make Lord of the Rings into a single movie? I mean, since there was no need for three parts after all.Look, I won't change my opinion and he's entitled to his. There was NO need for 3 parts to this game. They could have had ONE expansion... TWO? I think it's a hard sell and makes me feel like I'm ordering from a restaurant with side orders being the knife and fork to eat my GOD DAMNED 70$ steak!
Trust me though, if they made it one expansion, you are not suddenly going to get more content, you would be getting less. Maybe I am fine with getting more out of a series I enjoy rather then less, as long as those extras carry a decent quality. If all the games are WoL quality, I will be happy. You may not be, but then, you have the choice simply not to buy them.
#24
Jay
Jay
Piratebay is my friend.
#25
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
Ah, so you like the game enough to play it. That says enough.Piratebay is my friend.
#26
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
I WOULD like to point out that Star Craft DID have two more expansions after Brood War... they weren't made by Blizzard, but they WERE authorized to make them.
#27
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
I played those, they were more independent story boosters and I don't even think had voice acting, they were not real expansions. An expansion to me is a game that modifies the base game, rather then something anyone can make with the old map editor. Though I guess my term needs to be altered considering how powerful the new galaxy editor is.I WOULD like to point out that Star Craft DID have two more expansions after Brood War... they weren't made by Blizzard, but they WERE authorized to make them.
#28
Jay
Look, I'm simply not going to buy the game thrice to play it completely as I should be able to today. I'll buy it when they provide the full game and pay full price. I think that's fair. Until then I'll enjoy the free copy I downloaded along with a functional serial key I managed to get my hands on. I don't like the semi-forced semi-subscription system they tried to come up with.
Jay
LOL. Why are you taking this so personal?Ah, so you like the game enough to play it. That says enough.
Look, I'm simply not going to buy the game thrice to play it completely as I should be able to today. I'll buy it when they provide the full game and pay full price. I think that's fair. Until then I'll enjoy the free copy I downloaded along with a functional serial key I managed to get my hands on. I don't like the semi-forced semi-subscription system they tried to come up with.
#29
ScytheRexx
I can care less if you pirate it, not going to lose myself any sleep or Blizzard any money. I just find it funny for how much you complained and liked to jump on me about my counterpoints, you end up playing it anyways.
ScytheRexx
Who says I was taking it personal?LOL. Why are you taking this so personal?
I can care less if you pirate it, not going to lose myself any sleep or Blizzard any money. I just find it funny for how much you complained and liked to jump on me about my counterpoints, you end up playing it anyways.I think where we have an issue is the term "complete". I will let Angry Joe explain the rest for me though, as I don't really feel the need to argue what you or I consider "complete". I got what I paid for, and from what I have seen most others did as well. But you enjoy that pirated game.Look, I'm simply not going to buy the game thrice to play it completely as I should be able to today. I'll buy it when they provide the full game and pay full price. I think that's fair. Until then I'll enjoy the free copy I downloaded along with a functional serial key I managed to get my hands on. I don't like the semi-forced semi-subscription system they tried to come up with.
#30
Adammon
For a game that more thought was put into multiplayer than single player for. I mean Facebook integration? Really
And once the expansions come out, will they all be cross compatible with each other? Probably not. Which means to continue playing online you'll have to upgrade. Or maybe we should call it a 'subscription' instead.
But we got new graphics! Wow! No new play mechanics or even particularly dynamic missions written. No, all the cool work is being done by the community (for free).
Ah well, it was cheaper than a hooker - and lasted marginally longer n
Adammon
$180 steak if the expansions are full price.Sorry but YOUR bias already shows in the first sentence. Need I go into more detail?Sorry, but your bias already shows in the first sentence.
Look, I won't change my opinion and he's entitled to his. There was NO need for 3 parts to this game. They could have had ONE expansion... TWO? I think it's a hard sell and makes me feel like I'm ordering from a restaurant with side orders being the knife and fork to eat my GOD DAMNED 70$ steak!
For a game that more thought was put into multiplayer than single player for. I mean Facebook integration? Really
And once the expansions come out, will they all be cross compatible with each other? Probably not. Which means to continue playing online you'll have to upgrade. Or maybe we should call it a 'subscription' instead.
But we got new graphics! Wow! No new play mechanics or even particularly dynamic missions written. No, all the cool work is being done by the community (for free).
Ah well, it was cheaper than a hooker - and lasted marginally longer n
#31
ScytheRexx
If you are going to argue, should at least know what you are speaking about.
There are some things I have been wanting to find out.
ScytheRexx
You do realize that Blizzard games have not been cross compatible since Battle.net first came into existence, right? And that such never stopped old versions of the game from being played? SC2, SC2:BW, D2, D2:LOD, WC3:RoC and WC3:TFT all of them have different battle.net sets as they were released, and all of them have a respectable number of players logged on all the time that prefer the mechanics of those originals over the expansions. If "new units, storylines, tilesets, and other extras are not your cup of tea, then just play online with WoL, it won't vanish and you will still have people to play with.And once the expansions come out, will they all be cross compatible with each other? Probably not. Which means to continue playing online you'll have to upgrade. Or maybe we should call it a 'subscription' instead.
If you are going to argue, should at least know what you are speaking about.
Ah, you should let us use your crystal ball, since you can see the future and all.But we got new graphics! Wow! No new play mechanics or even particularly dynamic missions written. No, all the cool work is being done by the community (for free).
There are some things I have been wanting to find out.
#32
Chibibar
Chibibar
fromt Starcraft2.com
SC2, SC2+exp1, SC2+exp2, SC2+exp1+exp2
So I presume Battle.net will have rooms withIf I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online?Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft.
SC2, SC2+exp1, SC2+exp2, SC2+exp1+exp2
#33
Jay
Jay
Pay $40 to continue playing with your friends!
#34
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
Or convince them not to buy the expansions, good luck with that one though.Pay $40 to continue playing with your friends!
#35
Chibibar
[/QUOTE]
I personally LOVE the game. I WILL buy the expansion. That is what I will do, my friends? some will buy them cause they love the game and will support Blizzard, and some won't since they just want to play vanilla multiplayer
Chibibar
Or convince them not to buy the expansions, good luck with that one though.Pay $40 to continue playing with your friends!
[/QUOTE]I personally LOVE the game. I WILL buy the expansion. That is what I will do, my friends? some will buy them cause they love the game and will support Blizzard, and some won't since they just want to play vanilla multiplayer
#36
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
It's been way too goddamn long since I played SC1, but didn't Blizz allow you to choose (if you had both) whether you wanted to play a regular SC1 match instead of a BW match on the B.net?
Or am I just mis-remembering? Either way, especially with the B.net ID system, that should be doable.
Or am I just mis-remembering? Either way, especially with the B.net ID system, that should be doable.
#37
ScytheRexx
SC2 was rumored to break from that by making each release of the trilogy as a stand-alone game, much like Dawn of War. I think they back-stepped on that, however, after the complaining first started, and now just call them expansions and will probably sell them as such.
WoW was the only exception to the "downgrade" rule, but that was because every version of the game was always updated through patches. Buying the expansion merely unlocked the high end goodies like new races, classes, and high end zones, but all version of the game got the extras like achievements, old zone changes, mount improvements, etc... That is one of the neat things about Cataclysm, as all the zone and quest changes to the existing old world zones are going to be free to everyone, regardless of what version they own. You can play in the new troll starting area and still own vanilla.
ScytheRexx
Yes, that is how it works for all of them. You buy the original game, you can play it, you buy the expansion, you can play it, but if for whatever reason you prefer the original, you can still play it without the expansion. The only thing was, obviously, to play the expansion version you always needed to first own the original, you never could buy BW as a stand-alone game.It's been way too goddamn long since I played SC1, but didn't Blizz allow you to choose (if you had both) whether you wanted to play a regular SC1 match instead of a BW match on the B.net?
SC2 was rumored to break from that by making each release of the trilogy as a stand-alone game, much like Dawn of War. I think they back-stepped on that, however, after the complaining first started, and now just call them expansions and will probably sell them as such.
WoW was the only exception to the "downgrade" rule, but that was because every version of the game was always updated through patches. Buying the expansion merely unlocked the high end goodies like new races, classes, and high end zones, but all version of the game got the extras like achievements, old zone changes, mount improvements, etc... That is one of the neat things about Cataclysm, as all the zone and quest changes to the existing old world zones are going to be free to everyone, regardless of what version they own. You can play in the new troll starting area and still own vanilla.
#38
Adammon
Hey, and don't forget, no LAN play. Thanks Blizzard!
Adammon
I don't need a crystal ball to see the present. I can play the game I paid for right now.Ah, you should let us use your crystal ball, since you can see the future and all.But we got new graphics! Wow! No new play mechanics or even particularly dynamic missions written. No, all the cool work is being done by the community (for free).
Hey, and don't forget, no LAN play. Thanks Blizzard!
#39
Adammon
Adammon
Oh good, we get one free name change. After that, we have to pay to change our Battle.net names.
Free Character Name Change Coming Soon - StarCraft II
Yeah, money pit. Thanks Blizzard.
Free Character Name Change Coming Soon - StarCraft II
Yeah, money pit. Thanks Blizzard.
#40
Vrii
Vrii
Given that the first screen you get on loading the game explains what the name is and that it's permanent, I think it's a bit ridiculous to criticize them for "only" giving one free change.
Besides, how often do you plan on changing it that this is a big deal to you?
Besides, how often do you plan on changing it that this is a big deal to you?
#41
@Li3n
@Li3n
I for one found the story to have potential that was ruined by some weird choices... Matt telling Raynor about Tychus being booby-trapped and then it's never mentioned again etc.
And after they split the SP in 3 parts i don't get why they got rid of this stuff (from 3 years ago too):
And after they split the SP in 3 parts i don't get why they got rid of this stuff (from 3 years ago too):
#42
Chibibar
Chibibar
I was wondering about that. I was hoping that Jim could try to rescue Tychus, but never got around to it, or Jim didn't want to help his buddy.I for one found the story to have potential that was ruined by some weird choices... Matt telling Raynor about Tychus being booby-trapped and then it's never mentioned again etc.
And after they split the SP in 3 parts i don't get why they got rid of this stuff (from 3 years ago too):
#43
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
I definitely agree about Tychus. He seemed like a character that had a lot more room to develop with the whole "booby trap" thing going on, but it never was capitalized. I think they tried to weasel in the comment to explain why he never takes it off just in case people skipped the opening cut scene, and then just washed their hands of it till the ending came and revealed the purpose for the "booby trap".
#44
Chibibar
If Blizzard made a movie, I would go see it.
Chibibar
skim over?? that is sacrilege!!I definitely agree about Tychus. He seemed like a character that had a lot more room to develop with the whole "booby trap" thing going on, but it never was capitalized. I think they tried to weasel in the comment to explain why he never takes it off just in case people skipped the opening cut scene, and then just washed their hands of it till the ending came and revealed the purpose for the "booby trap".
If Blizzard made a movie, I would go see it.
#45
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
Oh, I agree, I am just trying to think of a reason for having that comment and never really going with it anywhere.
I think in the end that was my biggest issue with the single player campaign. They had a lot of room to do some cool things with the various storylines that never really ended up materializing. For example, Dr. Hanson, you just do her final mission and she either leaves or is dead, without anything further connecting back to the storyline and no promise that she will even appear in future games.
Also, I kind of wish they utilized the "hero" characters a bit more in actual combat situations.
Basically the big thing I wanted was the choices I made before the final mission to add more then just different base units and extra research upgrades. Yes, those did a great job of altering how the game plays from playthrough to playthrough, but look at some of the other things they could have done.
Hanson vs Protoss
If you choose Hanson, she appears in the final mission on a small convoy and drops down her latest research into Zerg infestation. This can do anything from increase damage to survival, or even add a special unit or building.
If you choose the Protoss, you find that they had a small force watching your progress, and they end in two carriers and a Mothership to help hold the line at the last second.
Tosh vs Nova
If you choose Tosh he enters the battle as a special unit with his base abilities plus extra abilities. If he "dies" he actually just cloaks and runs back to the merc center to "rest" and then comes out fully healed.
If you choose Nova she appears later under command of Valerian and basically is the same as Tosh otherwise, a strong hero unit for the fight with all her base abilities plus some extra.
Stuff like that would have been great to really tie all your choices together. I still think is was a great game though, just it definitely could have been better (but any game really can be).
I think in the end that was my biggest issue with the single player campaign. They had a lot of room to do some cool things with the various storylines that never really ended up materializing. For example, Dr. Hanson, you just do her final mission and she either leaves or is dead, without anything further connecting back to the storyline and no promise that she will even appear in future games.
Also, I kind of wish they utilized the "hero" characters a bit more in actual combat situations.
Basically the big thing I wanted was the choices I made before the final mission to add more then just different base units and extra research upgrades. Yes, those did a great job of altering how the game plays from playthrough to playthrough, but look at some of the other things they could have done.
Hanson vs Protoss
If you choose Hanson, she appears in the final mission on a small convoy and drops down her latest research into Zerg infestation. This can do anything from increase damage to survival, or even add a special unit or building.
If you choose the Protoss, you find that they had a small force watching your progress, and they end in two carriers and a Mothership to help hold the line at the last second.
Tosh vs Nova
If you choose Tosh he enters the battle as a special unit with his base abilities plus extra abilities. If he "dies" he actually just cloaks and runs back to the merc center to "rest" and then comes out fully healed.
If you choose Nova she appears later under command of Valerian and basically is the same as Tosh otherwise, a strong hero unit for the fight with all her base abilities plus some extra.
Stuff like that would have been great to really tie all your choices together. I still think is was a great game though, just it definitely could have been better (but any game really can be).
#46
@Li3n
@Li3n
And another thing that annoyed me was that they didn't have more story events in the mission themselves... i know they think the engine made cinematics where replacing that, but they made SC1's missions feel so much more as part of the story.
All-in-all the story could have been better integrated in the SP gameplay, and scripted better so it doesn't feel like you're jumping from one plot point to another. Especially since they removed the other 2 campaigns for the 'toss and zerg to work on the terrans more, which left us with an incomplete story anyway.
All-in-all the story could have been better integrated in the SP gameplay, and scripted better so it doesn't feel like you're jumping from one plot point to another. Especially since they removed the other 2 campaigns for the 'toss and zerg to work on the terrans more, which left us with an incomplete story anyway.
#47
R
Raemon777
R
Raemon777
Bleh. I have been waiting for a month to read this thread, and I was hoping it'd be 40+ posts discussing awesome storyline plot threads instead of mostly bitching about the expansions thing. Seriously dudes, it's the same amount of content. I'm sorry the content was not divided the way you wanted it to be, but in no way are you remotely getting "less." My complaint is not that we didn't get Zerg missions, but more along what Scythe has touched upon - there were plot threads that could have been expanded better, possibly within the same number of missions, possibly with one or two extra missions
I actually felt the ending was a little rushed. When Raynor's giving his inspiring speech that has everyone looking through their blank suit-masks... I really wanted to be all excited. Everything about the scene was done correctly. It's just that you had only been on Char, fighting the zerg for realz, for two missions. I think I needed to see one extra mission that really showcased how terrifying and oppressive the Zerg are. Kerrigan taunts us with "Infestation" in the Gates of Hell mission. I think we needed a mission where the Zerg are not merely killing your units but permanently infesting them. (I think Swanson would have been a good character to lose to Infestation. You never quite get attached to him, but as such you wouldn't be expecting it as much).
Char had been established as such a badass place.... for a scrappy band of rebels to take it down in an afternoon was just ridiculous. For that matter, for an experienced general like Warfield to honestly expect them to have a few hours to begin a generic frontal invasion was silly.
I didn't think SC1 had any more "story" embedded in the mission. If anything I thought each mission here much more flavor storylines that interacted with the gameplay.
The thing that bugged me the most? WHY THE HELL WERE THE IN-GAME CINEMATICS "IN GAME?" (referring to the high-res shipboard cinematics, not the actual in game ones).
Each of them had beautiful custom done animation, to the extent that there was no reason for them to be done using a real-time engine when you could have just rendered them in Maya or whatever, hit the "smooth" button" for the organic models so that they didn't have such awkward pixelation, and anti-aliased it. If you're going to put in that much effort for your cutscenes, why wouldn't you just put another few days on rendering them at max settings so that a) people without Omega Computers can watch them in good quality, b) even the people WITH Omega Computers won't have to wait for a level to load instead of just watching an instantly loaded .avi file.
There's no reason Hyperion needed to be realtime at all, instead of a few pre-rendered looping animations.
Barring that, we couldn't possibly let the computer set up two separate graphics settings, one for actual gameplay and one for Hyperion?
I actually felt the ending was a little rushed. When Raynor's giving his inspiring speech that has everyone looking through their blank suit-masks... I really wanted to be all excited. Everything about the scene was done correctly. It's just that you had only been on Char, fighting the zerg for realz, for two missions. I think I needed to see one extra mission that really showcased how terrifying and oppressive the Zerg are. Kerrigan taunts us with "Infestation" in the Gates of Hell mission. I think we needed a mission where the Zerg are not merely killing your units but permanently infesting them. (I think Swanson would have been a good character to lose to Infestation. You never quite get attached to him, but as such you wouldn't be expecting it as much).
Char had been established as such a badass place.... for a scrappy band of rebels to take it down in an afternoon was just ridiculous. For that matter, for an experienced general like Warfield to honestly expect them to have a few hours to begin a generic frontal invasion was silly.
I didn't think SC1 had any more "story" embedded in the mission. If anything I thought each mission here much more flavor storylines that interacted with the gameplay.
The thing that bugged me the most? WHY THE HELL WERE THE IN-GAME CINEMATICS "IN GAME?" (referring to the high-res shipboard cinematics, not the actual in game ones).
Each of them had beautiful custom done animation, to the extent that there was no reason for them to be done using a real-time engine when you could have just rendered them in Maya or whatever, hit the "smooth" button" for the organic models so that they didn't have such awkward pixelation, and anti-aliased it. If you're going to put in that much effort for your cutscenes, why wouldn't you just put another few days on rendering them at max settings so that a) people without Omega Computers can watch them in good quality, b) even the people WITH Omega Computers won't have to wait for a level to load instead of just watching an instantly loaded .avi file.
There's no reason Hyperion needed to be realtime at all, instead of a few pre-rendered looping animations.
Barring that, we couldn't possibly let the computer set up two separate graphics settings, one for actual gameplay and one for Hyperion?
#48
SpecialKO
Just because my comp couldn't maintain 30fps at max settings with a zillion zerg running around in the middle of huge explosions doesn't mean that it can't render the cinematics at max. Because it can and it did, I just didn't want to re-adjust my video settings each time.
SpecialKO
This, a thousand times this.Barring that, we couldn't possibly let the computer set up two separate graphics settings, one for actual gameplay and one for Hyperion?
Just because my comp couldn't maintain 30fps at max settings with a zillion zerg running around in the middle of huge explosions doesn't mean that it can't render the cinematics at max. Because it can and it did, I just didn't want to re-adjust my video settings each time.
#49
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
I agree with most of the points, but there is one I must disagree.
There are other things to consider, like now we know "Sarah" was still somewhere inside Kerrigan, and so she may have subconsciously spread her forces out far and wide in the hopes that Raynor would be able to do what he did. There are just to many variables, but it still remains that what they did was still not easy.
Really, it was not a scrappy group of rebels, but over half the Dominion fleet, and most of them died in the process. Don't forget it was also mentioned that the reason they did the attack was because the vast majority of the hives were out in space, destroying the fringe worlds for Kerrigan. They make mention of this during the final missions when they say how all Zerg in the sector have started back for Char, an act that would obliterate them if they didn't finish the job quickly. Remember, later on when the Dark Voice takes over the bulk of the hive, nothing can stop them.Char had been established as such a badass place.... for a scrappy band of rebels to take it down in an afternoon was just ridiculous. For that matter, for an experienced general like Warfield to honestly expect them to have a few hours to begin a generic frontal invasion was silly.
There are other things to consider, like now we know "Sarah" was still somewhere inside Kerrigan, and so she may have subconsciously spread her forces out far and wide in the hopes that Raynor would be able to do what he did. There are just to many variables, but it still remains that what they did was still not easy.
#50
R
Raemon777
R
Raemon777
The scrappy band of rebels wasn't all they had to start with, but they gave a strong impression that they were all that was left after the initial massacre. The fact that they had enough people to establish a forward base, which somehow survived any length of time WHILE they could send half their troops back UP into orbit.... strains credibility. (I briefly looked at the Kill-The-Nydus-Worms mission afterwards and I think that arc made a bit more sense - leaving most of your troops to defend the base camp and setting a tiny team to do some guerrilla ops seemed more like Raynor's style and would be more likely to actually work than splitting your forces in half.)
I could argue about individual points, but ultimately it doesn't matter much because it's the emotional arc I'm mostly concerned with. Having a bunch of reasons why an attack on Char is feasible doesn't help when those reasons aren't entirely clear and in some cases we don't even learn till the very end, when it's not important that we be scared anymore. The deaths of all the dominion troops pretty much happened off screen. I'd have liked to have a mission wherein we got to see Warfield actually doing a decent job of reacting to the surprise attack, so that we see that the Dominion troops weren't just wasted - he actually used them effectively to get SOMETHING done.
Maybe they meant to imply that, but if so they didn't really give it enough oomph to sink in. At least not for me.
I could argue about individual points, but ultimately it doesn't matter much because it's the emotional arc I'm mostly concerned with. Having a bunch of reasons why an attack on Char is feasible doesn't help when those reasons aren't entirely clear and in some cases we don't even learn till the very end, when it's not important that we be scared anymore. The deaths of all the dominion troops pretty much happened off screen. I'd have liked to have a mission wherein we got to see Warfield actually doing a decent job of reacting to the surprise attack, so that we see that the Dominion troops weren't just wasted - he actually used them effectively to get SOMETHING done.
Maybe they meant to imply that, but if so they didn't really give it enough oomph to sink in. At least not for me.
#51
Adammon
Adammon
Or hey, it's possible that it's just one of Blizzards first badly written games.
#52
Vrii
Vrii
I wouldn't say it's badly written. They experimented with non-linear storytelling, and there are definitely shortcomings there. They didn't fully flesh out some of the points they raised, and there are a few gaps between BW events and what's happening here. All that said, the story is still compelling, the characters are interesting, and I was definitely interested in what was happening from start to finish.
Is the writing worse than some of their other releases? Sure. But it's still better than 95% of the games I've played.
Is the writing worse than some of their other releases? Sure. But it's still better than 95% of the games I've played.
#53
Chibibar
Chibibar
I agree. The "side missions" (like Tosh and Hansen) could have work out more. I would have like to know more about Tychus. There was a definite cliff hanging about the trap suit but that was it???I wouldn't say it's badly written. They experimented with non-linear storytelling, and there are definitely shortcomings there. They didn't fully flesh out some of the points they raised, and there are a few gaps between BW events and what's happening here. All that said, the story is still compelling, the characters are interesting, and I was definitely interested in what was happening from start to finish.
Is the writing worse than some of their other releases? Sure. But it's still better than 95% of the games I've played.
#54
R
Raemon777
R
Raemon777
Honestly, while the writing here is far from perfect, if you think other Blizzard games are better, you are probably looking at the past through rose tinted glasses. Even StarCraft 1 (which I consider the best instance of Blizzard storytelling to date), while decent, was not a flawless scripted masterpiece. I think this matches StarCraft 1 scripting, and dramatically improves the voice acting/animation. The disappointment is not that it's worse, but that our expectations are higher.Is the writing worse than some of their other releases? Sure. But it's still better than 95% of the games I've played.
#55
R
Raemon777
R
Raemon777
Just wanted to repost this exchange from the StarCraft 2 Campaign forum:
Most folks on the Blizzard forum seem to disagree with me though.
Also wanted to ask... was I the only one that WASN'T upset at the "twist" with the Overmind? Maybe I'm assuming they will do this better justice than they will, but I thought the notion of the Overmind as something vastly intelligent but NOT having free will was a concept that was interesting in an alien (as opposed to lamely humanizing) way."Dude, Raynor just shot his friend so he could hook up with his ex. That's lame. Bros before hos dude."
"But.... millions of lives were at stake! She was going to save the universe!"
"Whatever."
"Dude, Bros before Hos, but Cosmos before Bros."
"..."
"..."
"lol"
Most folks on the Blizzard forum seem to disagree with me though.
#56
@Li3n
And the biggest problem to me was that the E3 2007 campaign demo they showed had way more potential then what we where given (like Raynor actually showing distrust of Tychus instead of looking like he's ignoring the warning signs etc), which is BS considering that they said the reason the didn't put in the other campaigns was that they wanted to concentrate on the terran one, and it looks more like they just didn't want to spend the manpower on the other 2 instead of MP...
Actually it all boils down to the fact that there are too many moments where you can look at the story and think of a way they could have done it better... SC1 has way fewer of those.
SC1 wins hands down on scripting just because the story flows better... and it's not just the non-liniar mission thing at work, even if you only take into account just the main story missions, it feels rather disjointed (Tychus is boby-trapped, lets not mention it again ever, even when we find out Valerian owns Moebius). And way to tell us from the middle how the campaign will end Blizzard... giving the artifact an unexpected side effect would have been a way better twist.
And of course voice acting, unless it's horrible, it's a matter of opionion, but SC1 wins for me because the Terrans had great accents... man, Arcturus simply doesn't sound crazy enough in #2, and doesn't have that hungry look anymore either. And 6's voice simply doesn't fit Keriggan...
Nice graphics though.
@Li3n
Well when we get some awesome storyline plot threads we will... (well the fact that Narud is something backwards is one at least).Bleh. I have been waiting for a month to read this thread, and I was hoping it'd be 40+ posts discussing awesome storyline plot threads instead of mostly bitching about the expansions thing. Seriously dudes, it's the same amount of content. I'm sorry the content was not divided the way you wanted it to be, but in no way are you remotely getting "less."
And the biggest problem to me was that the E3 2007 campaign demo they showed had way more potential then what we where given (like Raynor actually showing distrust of Tychus instead of looking like he's ignoring the warning signs etc), which is BS considering that they said the reason the didn't put in the other campaigns was that they wanted to concentrate on the terran one, and it looks more like they just didn't want to spend the manpower on the other 2 instead of MP...
Actually it all boils down to the fact that there are too many moments where you can look at the story and think of a way they could have done it better... SC1 has way fewer of those.
I think they presented it wrongly, by making the Overmind look too "nice"... it making Kerrigan as a way to try to screw over whoever gave him his "hunger" works without that.Also wanted to ask... was I the only one that WASN'T upset at the "twist" with the Overmind? Maybe I'm assuming they will do this better justice than they will, but I thought the notion of the Overmind as something vastly intelligent but NOT having free will was a concept that was interesting in an alien (as opposed to lamely humanizing) way.
R U high?!I think this matches StarCraft 1 scripting, and dramatically improves the voice acting/animation. The disappointment is not that it's worse, but that our expectations are higher.
SC1 wins hands down on scripting just because the story flows better... and it's not just the non-liniar mission thing at work, even if you only take into account just the main story missions, it feels rather disjointed (Tychus is boby-trapped, lets not mention it again ever, even when we find out Valerian owns Moebius). And way to tell us from the middle how the campaign will end Blizzard... giving the artifact an unexpected side effect would have been a way better twist.
And of course voice acting, unless it's horrible, it's a matter of opionion, but SC1 wins for me because the Terrans had great accents... man, Arcturus simply doesn't sound crazy enough in #2, and doesn't have that hungry look anymore either. And 6's voice simply doesn't fit Keriggan...
Nice graphics though.
#57
Adammon
Adammon
Kinda curious about all the claims that "SC2 is a WAYY bigger campaign than SC1". SC1 had 30 missions, SC2 has 29.
Anyways, wife and I enjoy playing cooperative against the AI. We've progressed up to medium opponents. Still haven't ventured into the online arenas yet, wayyy too many good players out there.
Anyways, wife and I enjoy playing cooperative against the AI. We've progressed up to medium opponents. Still haven't ventured into the online arenas yet, wayyy too many good players out there.
#58
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
It is nearly equal in size of missions, but much more in depth when it comes to cinematic quality, unique play changes like upgrades and research, interactivity, etc... I don't see anyone claiming it is "WAAYYY" bigger then SC1, but it sure was not "smaller" like many others wish to claim.Kinda curious about all the claims that "SC2 is a WAYY bigger campaign than SC1". SC1 had 30 missions, SC2 has 29.
#59
@Li3n
@Li3n
Well it did have more things to research, but moving them from the buildings to in between the missions wasn't that big of a change overall...
And it did feel smaller because in the end it still was 1/3 of a story, while SC1 actually had a satisfying ending. And the lack of scripted events (at least story impacting ones anyway) in most maps made them feel a bit empty...
And it did feel smaller because in the end it still was 1/3 of a story, while SC1 actually had a satisfying ending. And the lack of scripted events (at least story impacting ones anyway) in most maps made them feel a bit empty...
#60
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
It didn't feel smaller to me, but I admit it didn't feel complete either. I am fine with that. I never felt like Fellowship of the Ring was to small when it was only 1/3 of the story, and I won't feel it here either. I just hope in HOTS they improve a bit on the story flow a bit.And it did feel smaller because in the end it still was 1/3 of a story, while SC1 actually had a satisfying ending. And the lack of scripted events (at least story impacting ones anyway) in most maps made them feel a bit empty...
#61
@Li3n
@Li3n
LotR was one book, the 3 volumes where all the publishers doing...
And Non-linear missions always seem to suffer from a disjointed story... i too hope they make HotS with a better story flow.
Also, too bits make a lot...
And Non-linear missions always seem to suffer from a disjointed story... i too hope they make HotS with a better story flow.
Also, too bits make a lot...
#62
ScytheRexx
I actually feel in the end I will get more StarCraft then I was expecting, as Blizzard has a habit (At least outside of WoW) of only ever making one expansion, and this gives them a reason to release two.
Really, I think HOTS would be the perfect campaign to reapply the "hero" mechanic for the single player. It would be a good fit for Kerrigan regaining her powers over the course of the campaign.
ScytheRexx
Yes, but making it three books didn't hurt it, it was still a good story as a "whole". I am saying I don't care about the fact I only got 1/3rd of the story because I know down the line I will have the other 2/3rds, and I will enjoy them.LotR was one book, the 3 volumes where all the publishers doing...
I actually feel in the end I will get more StarCraft then I was expecting, as Blizzard has a habit (At least outside of WoW) of only ever making one expansion, and this gives them a reason to release two.
It seems to me that they won't be able to do the whole "walk about and talk to people" as much due to the nature of the faction. I even think one of the reasons they had Kerrigan get reverted at all was to just give her some people to talk with other then the screeches of Zerglings while you walk around a hive.And Non-linear missions always seem to suffer from a disjointed story... i too hope they make HotS with a better story flow.
Really, I think HOTS would be the perfect campaign to reapply the "hero" mechanic for the single player. It would be a good fit for Kerrigan regaining her powers over the course of the campaign.
#63
@Li3n
Now with DLC for everything, and Relic's DoW the situation is different.
Really, I think HOTS would be the perfect campaign to reapply the "hero" mechanic for the single player. It would be a good fit for Kerrigan regaining her powers over the course of the campaign.[/QUOTE]
Oh God, that's exactly what will happen, isn't it, except that this time Arthas isn't still evil, so we won't get to play the bad guys either. Dammit Blizzard, look into some other stock plots already...
@Li3n
but reading it all in one go feels better, don'it...Yes, but making it three books didn't hurt it, it was still a good story as a "whole". I am saying I don't care about the fact I only got 1/3rd of the story because I know down the line I will have the other 2/3rds, and I will enjoy them.
Well one expansion was the norm for quite a while there. Besides HoMM3 i can't think of any games from the old days that had more then 1 expansion.I actually feel in the end I will get more StarCraft then I was expecting, as Blizzard has a habit (At least outside of WoW) of only ever making one expansion, and this gives them a reason to release two.
Now with DLC for everything, and Relic's DoW the situation is different.
It seems to me that they won't be able to do the whole "walk about and talk to people" as much due to the nature of the faction. I even think one of the reasons they had Kerrigan get reverted at all was to just give her some people to talk with other then the screeches of Zerglings while you walk around a hive.And Non-linear missions always seem to suffer from a disjointed story... i too hope they make HotS with a better story flow.
Really, I think HOTS would be the perfect campaign to reapply the "hero" mechanic for the single player. It would be a good fit for Kerrigan regaining her powers over the course of the campaign.[/QUOTE]
Oh God, that's exactly what will happen, isn't it, except that this time Arthas isn't still evil, so we won't get to play the bad guys either. Dammit Blizzard, look into some other stock plots already...
#64
R
Raemon777
I would just like to note, things I did NOT like from StarCraft I:
•* Kerrigan's Portrait/Voice (never liked it at all, always felt like she was supposed to look and sound almost exactly like she does in StarCract II, even 10 years before the game was released).
• The fact that the Overmind creates Kerrigan specifically to develop a means to fight the psionic protoss on their own terms.... and then leaves her on Char when it actually goes to fight the Protoss.
• The fact that Zeratul talks SOOOOOOOO SLOWWWWWWLLLLYYYYYYY (this has been replaced in StarCraft II with him speaking faster, but repeated the same useless information over and over, which is a bit of a step down I admit)
• The fact the Zeratul claims he has served Raszagal for countless millenia, when he is less than a thousand years old (I realize this is nitpicking. Still, always bugged me).
• The fact that everyone's so proud of Tassadar for sacrificing himself... which didn't strike me as any more noble than the hundreds of other protoss who died so that I could make my way to the Overmind.
• The fact that, in Brood War, Kerrigan becomes such a psychotic bitch for basically no reason. Her desire to manipulate and counter-betray Mengsk made sense. The way she treated Jim and the Protoss did not. I understand her personality getting overwritten with Zerg priorities, to expand and assimilate. But she seemed to take a particular glee in tormenting Jim and Fenix that had no basis, either biologically or plotwise. Her storyline in the original was only slightly better (I liked the implications of "Okay Jim, look, I don't really have empathy or compassion any more, but I remember that you helped me in the past so if you just stay out of my way I won't bother you"). But her personality seemed to shift between Terran and Zerg campaigns in a way that was neither emotionally compelling nor justifiable simply via zerg biology. (By contrast, the Overmind and Cerebrates had GREAT personalities. One of the crowning features of StarCraft I was doing justice to such an alien mindset. Interesting that Metzen seems to have an easier time writing alien hive minds than... a woman).
So anyway... while I stand by StarCraft I being one of the best games of all time, the story was not perfect there either. StarCraft II fails in a lot of ways that StarCraft I did not, but I see that as largely because StarCraft II is trying to do far MORE than StarCraft I did.
R
Raemon777
Well, sure. But waiting an extra 3 years isn't gonna feel that great either.but reading it all in one go feels better, don'it...
This was the complaint I was making... back when WarCraft III came out and it was WarCraft III cannibalizing StarCraft's plot. I also thought WarCraft III did a lousy job of executing its story (both Arthas part and the Burning Legion/Titans/Dark Voice/Xel'Naga part), so if they can do the same story better now.... well, there are worse things they could be doing. The more I read about what we've learned about the Fallen One from the StarCraft novels, the less thrilled I am, I admit. But I see the Kerrigan story as the continuation of the ORIGINAL story that WARCRAFT stole, not the other way around, and I have few qualms about it.Oh God, that's exactly what will happen, isn't it, except that this time Arthas isn't still evil, so we won't get to play the bad guys either. Dammit Blizzard, look into some other stock plots already...
I would just like to note, things I did NOT like from StarCraft I:
•* Kerrigan's Portrait/Voice (never liked it at all, always felt like she was supposed to look and sound almost exactly like she does in StarCract II, even 10 years before the game was released).
• The fact that the Overmind creates Kerrigan specifically to develop a means to fight the psionic protoss on their own terms.... and then leaves her on Char when it actually goes to fight the Protoss.
• The fact that Zeratul talks SOOOOOOOO SLOWWWWWWLLLLYYYYYYY (this has been replaced in StarCraft II with him speaking faster, but repeated the same useless information over and over, which is a bit of a step down I admit)
• The fact the Zeratul claims he has served Raszagal for countless millenia, when he is less than a thousand years old (I realize this is nitpicking. Still, always bugged me).
• The fact that everyone's so proud of Tassadar for sacrificing himself... which didn't strike me as any more noble than the hundreds of other protoss who died so that I could make my way to the Overmind.
• The fact that, in Brood War, Kerrigan becomes such a psychotic bitch for basically no reason. Her desire to manipulate and counter-betray Mengsk made sense. The way she treated Jim and the Protoss did not. I understand her personality getting overwritten with Zerg priorities, to expand and assimilate. But she seemed to take a particular glee in tormenting Jim and Fenix that had no basis, either biologically or plotwise. Her storyline in the original was only slightly better (I liked the implications of "Okay Jim, look, I don't really have empathy or compassion any more, but I remember that you helped me in the past so if you just stay out of my way I won't bother you"). But her personality seemed to shift between Terran and Zerg campaigns in a way that was neither emotionally compelling nor justifiable simply via zerg biology. (By contrast, the Overmind and Cerebrates had GREAT personalities. One of the crowning features of StarCraft I was doing justice to such an alien mindset. Interesting that Metzen seems to have an easier time writing alien hive minds than... a woman).
So anyway... while I stand by StarCraft I being one of the best games of all time, the story was not perfect there either. StarCraft II fails in a lot of ways that StarCraft I did not, but I see that as largely because StarCraft II is trying to do far MORE than StarCraft I did.
#65
@Li3n
C'mon, no way it was going to take that long to do SP, only reason it took this long is that they had to get MP right from the get go.
And you're still waiting 3 years to get an ending... and, for me at least, aving to wait for a resolution is worse then waiting for a story...
But the part where it depowers the corrupted character wasn't in BW, even if the rest was similar.
Really, the portrait was different from the art and campaign selection model we got in BW, which was more detailed then just giving her what looked like a facial tattoo, but they where both great... now she's just a bit too boney (but her model is fine).
But the voice was perfect, it was cold and dangerous, made her sound inhuman, now not so much...
And i don't remember her personality changing that much between the BW terran and zerg campaign, it's was pretty obvious she was going to betray you even then, she was just putting on a facade. Maybe it's just because i was expecting it though...
@Li3n
Huh?? Are you talking about the game coming out?!Well, sure. But waiting an extra 3 years isn't gonna feel that great either.but reading it all in one go feels better, don'it...
C'mon, no way it was going to take that long to do SP, only reason it took this long is that they had to get MP right from the get go.
And you're still waiting 3 years to get an ending... and, for me at least, aving to wait for a resolution is worse then waiting for a story...
Wait, i didn't want to make it sound like WC3 didn't just redo SC1's story, it did.This was the complaint I was making... back when WarCraft III came out and it was WarCraft III cannibalizing StarCraft's plot. I also thought WarCraft III did a lousy job of executing its story (both Arthas part and the Burning Legion/Titans/Dark Voice/Xel'Naga part), so if they can do the same story better now.... well, there are worse things they could be doing. The more I read about what we've learned about the Fallen One from the StarCraft novels, the less thrilled I am, I admit. But I see the Kerrigan story as the continuation of the ORIGINAL story that WARCRAFT stole, not the other way around, and I have few qualms about it.
But the part where it depowers the corrupted character wasn't in BW, even if the rest was similar.
I hear they have meds for that now...•* Kerrigan's Portrait/Voice (never liked it at all, always felt like she was supposed to look and sound almost exactly like she does in StarCract II, even 10 years before the game was released).
Really, the portrait was different from the art and campaign selection model we got in BW, which was more detailed then just giving her what looked like a facial tattoo, but they where both great... now she's just a bit too boney (but her model is fine).
But the voice was perfect, it was cold and dangerous, made her sound inhuman, now not so much...
He left her to hunt down the Dark Templar, who where actually capable of killing off cerebrates, hardly a waste of resources.• The fact that the Overmind creates Kerrigan specifically to develop a means to fight the psionic protoss on their own terms.... and then leaves her on Char when it actually goes to fight the Protoss.
Voice actor existence failure at work... but at least the voice is closer in tone then Kerrigan's.• The fact that Zeratul talks SOOOOOOOO SLOWWWWWWLLLLYYYYYYY (this has been replaced in StarCraft II with him speaking faster, but repeated the same useless information over and over, which is a bit of a step down I admit)
At the time i think the timeline wasn't very well done, there are other references about the Xel'naga experimenting on the Protoss a longertime ago then current lore says etc.• The fact the Zeratul claims he has served Raszagal for countless millenia, when he is less than a thousand years old (I realize this is nitpicking. Still, always bugged me).
Eh, are you serious?! that's exactly how war works, the guy that does that one thing that is more visible or helps more always gets more credit then the countless smucks that just get shot.• The fact that everyone's so proud of Tassadar for sacrificing himself... which didn't strike me as any more noble than the hundreds of other protoss who died so that I could make my way to the Overmind.
Ehhh... in the original, and BW too actually, it's implied she lets Raynor go because she had feeling for him still... classic forshadowing.• The fact that, in Brood War, Kerrigan becomes such a psychotic bitch for basically no reason. Her desire to manipulate and counter-betray Mengsk made sense. The way she treated Jim and the Protoss did not. I understand her personality getting overwritten with Zerg priorities, to expand and assimilate. But she seemed to take a particular glee in tormenting Jim and Fenix that had no basis, either biologically or plotwise. Her storyline in the original was only slightly better (I liked the implications of "Okay Jim, look, I don't really have empathy or compassion any more, but I remember that you helped me in the past so if you just stay out of my way I won't bother you"). But her personality seemed to shift between Terran and Zerg campaigns in a way that was neither emotionally compelling nor justifiable simply via zerg biology. (By contrast, the Overmind and Cerebrates had GREAT personalities. One of the crowning features of StarCraft I was doing justice to such an alien mindset. Interesting that Metzen seems to have an easier time writing alien hive minds than... a woman).
And i don't remember her personality changing that much between the BW terran and zerg campaign, it's was pretty obvious she was going to betray you even then, she was just putting on a facade. Maybe it's just because i was expecting it though...
#66
R
Raemon777
R
Raemon777
Sorry, to clarify: Kerrigan's personality changed between the original Terran campaign (where I thought she was reasonably well written character) and the original Zerg campaign (where her actions still made sense, but in a rather one dimensional way). And then in Brood War, the change in character was amplified to the point where it just didn't make any sense. (Pretty much all of Brood War falls in this category). Why the hell did she have any personal interest in capturing Raszagal and tormenting Zeratul? The former never did anything to her, and all Zeratul did was kill Zasz (a Cerebrate she never liked anyway) and played some role in destroying the Overmind, which seemed to be a net+ for her.
If they wanted to depict her as actually ANGRY at the Overmind being killed (which I admit would have been justifiable in some ways) they needed to spend some actual effort doing so.
If they wanted to depict her as actually ANGRY at the Overmind being killed (which I admit would have been justifiable in some ways) they needed to spend some actual effort doing so.
#67
@Li3n
And her personality changing was the whole point of infesting her... making her ruthless was needed so she could lead the swarm better... remember that the Overmind's mind control was more about making her loyal then actually controlling her thoughts.
They tried to just make her pure evil, and that usually leads to a rather one dimensional character... but she was pretty fine for such a character.
@Li3n
Because playing with your food it's what predators do... she was just enjoying herself while getting rid of the forces that could be a threat to her taking over. Plus, Zeratul&Tassadar tricked her... and she is the Queen Bitch of the Universe, she couldn't let that slide.Sorry, to clarify: Kerrigan's personality changed between the original Terran campaign (where I thought she was reasonably well written character) and the original Zerg campaign (where her actions still made sense, but in a rather one dimensional way). And then in Brood War, the change in character was amplified to the point where it just didn't make any sense. (Pretty much all of Brood War falls in this category). Why the hell did she have any personal interest in capturing Raszagal and tormenting Zeratul? The former never did anything to her, and all Zeratul did was kill Zasz (a Cerebrate she never liked anyway) and played some role in destroying the Overmind, which seemed to be a net+ for her.
And her personality changing was the whole point of infesting her... making her ruthless was needed so she could lead the swarm better... remember that the Overmind's mind control was more about making her loyal then actually controlling her thoughts.
They tried to just make her pure evil, and that usually leads to a rather one dimensional character... but she was pretty fine for such a character.
#68
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Raemon777
The Overmind was interesting specifically because it was not evil in all kinds of random, cliched ways. It was easy in a very specific way - it was biologically programmed to assimilate all life. All of its other actions followed logically from that. Different cerebrates had slightly more specific types of evil-ness due to their particular function. Kerrigan should have been given a particular function and gotten personality traits to match. "Bitch" is not a valid evolutionary niche.
R
Raemon777
"Being the Queen Bitch of the Universe" isn't a justification. Arbitrarily making her that was the thing that annoyed me in the first place. My issue is that not only is pure evil boring, but they had plenty of opportunity to create a character that was evil in an incredibly interesting way, and instead made a flat stereotype. The fact that said stereotype was entertaining some ways (I disagree about how entertaining she was, even for an evil person) doesn't help much.she is the Queen Bitch of the Universe, she couldn't let that slide.
The Overmind was interesting specifically because it was not evil in all kinds of random, cliched ways. It was easy in a very specific way - it was biologically programmed to assimilate all life. All of its other actions followed logically from that. Different cerebrates had slightly more specific types of evil-ness due to their particular function. Kerrigan should have been given a particular function and gotten personality traits to match. "Bitch" is not a valid evolutionary niche.
#69
@Li3n
@Li3n
Yes it is, she's biologically programmed to destroy anyone that stands in the way of the swarm... and that isn't something that makes you a nice person.
And the Overmind being the Great Devourer didn't strike me as all that original, i guess it depends on what you've been exposed to.
But whatever your issues with SC1's story, i still don't see how you think SC2's was better... frankly "Tychus is booby-trapped, let's never mention it again" is at least as bad as Kerrigan being one-dimensional.
And the Overmind being the Great Devourer didn't strike me as all that original, i guess it depends on what you've been exposed to.
But whatever your issues with SC1's story, i still don't see how you think SC2's was better... frankly "Tychus is booby-trapped, let's never mention it again" is at least as bad as Kerrigan being one-dimensional.
#70
R
Raemon777
R
Raemon777
I don't think the new one was better. But I think the old one had flaws, the biggest of which was that Kerrigan was never, ever interesting to me so people complaining that she's suddenly bland kinda baffle me. I also think the new one was trying to accomplish more than the old one was. It failed in many ways, but that doesn't upset me when I consider that the old one didn't even try to accomplish the things that the new one failed at. I don't think they failed that badly either, and I suspect that the next one will improve on those issues.
The line I particularly liked was "we shall become... perfect." The way he says it has a certain reverence to it. It gave me a real sense that this truly was his life's purpose (and by extension, mine) and that he cared deeply about it. I don't think he was mindblowingly original, but I prefer an honest attempt to craft an alien mindset to generic bitchiness any day. Unless the bitchiness is actually interesting, which I didn't think Kerrigan was post-infestation. For the most part anyway. (One line I do remember liking is Duran's "do you think they expect anything, my queen?" to which Kerrigan replies "of course! They're not STUPID!")And the Overmind being the Great Devourer didn't strike me as all that original, i guess it depends on what you've been exposed to.
#71
@Li3n
And i though Kerrigan was done well too, generic evil bitch or not...
@Li3n
Well her lines where generic and not one-dimensionally-bitchy-for-no-reason enough, you have to admit that. Of course she got like 5 lines in the whole campaign, so i for one didn't expect anything else... but teh voice didn't really fit the "bitchy-for-no-reason" thing... maybe that's why you liked it more. Or maybe there's a cylon in your head... we should airlock you just to make sure...But I think the old one had flaws, the biggest of which was that Kerrigan was never, ever interesting to me so people complaining that she's suddenly bland kinda baffle me.
Well that's it being well done, which, at least to me, has nothing to do with originality.The line I particularly liked was "we shall become... perfect." The way he says it has a certain reverence to it. It gave me a real sense that this truly was his life's purpose (and by extension, mine) and that he cared deeply about it.
And i though Kerrigan was done well too, generic evil bitch or not...
#72
R
Raemon777
I will note that while the Overmind was not an original character, it WAS fairly innovative to let you play as and surrounded by such characters. The orcs in WarCraft 2 are "well done" bloodthirsty savages, but that's something you see it a lot of games. Genocidal alien hive minds may be a dime a dozen as far as antagonists go, but as far as actual CHARACTERS go, I haven't seen many. To date, I think StarCraft II is the only game I've played where you actually got to play them. (Let me know if there are particular other games that do that which I should check out).
R
Raemon777
This is obviously the root of our disagreement and not something I expect any lengthy dialogue to fix. Whatevs.And i though Kerrigan was done well too, generic evil bitch or not...
I will note that while the Overmind was not an original character, it WAS fairly innovative to let you play as and surrounded by such characters. The orcs in WarCraft 2 are "well done" bloodthirsty savages, but that's something you see it a lot of games. Genocidal alien hive minds may be a dime a dozen as far as antagonists go, but as far as actual CHARACTERS go, I haven't seen many. To date, I think StarCraft II is the only game I've played where you actually got to play them. (Let me know if there are particular other games that do that which I should check out).
#73
@Li3n
But i for one wasn't very impressed when it comes to them being a convincing hivemind... they where pretty much individuals with the same goal. A hivemind should be more like talking to yourself (also called thinking)... now that i have never seen.
that doesn't mean the Overmind and co. wheren't well done though...
@Li3n
How do we disagree if your arguments about it where only that she was too one dimensional?! That's exactly what a generic evil person is...This is obviously the root of our disagreement and not something I expect any lengthy dialogue to fix. Whatevs.And i though Kerrigan was done well too, generic evil bitch or not...
Oh, if you're talking about playing as them, yeah, there are not a lot of those... (though being an antagonist doesn't mean they aren't characters too).I will note that while the Overmind was not an original character, it WAS fairly innovative to let you play as and surrounded by such characters. The orcs in WarCraft 2 are "well done" bloodthirsty savages, but that's something you see it a lot of games. Genocidal alien hive minds may be a dime a dozen as far as antagonists go, but as far as actual CHARACTERS go, I haven't seen many. To date, I think StarCraft II is the only game I've played where you actually got to play them. (Let me know if there are particular other games that do that which I should check out).
But i for one wasn't very impressed when it comes to them being a convincing hivemind... they where pretty much individuals with the same goal. A hivemind should be more like talking to yourself (also called thinking)... now that i have never seen.
that doesn't mean the Overmind and co. wheren't well done though...
#74
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Raemon777
I do think Overmind and Co. could have been done better (or more accurately, done differently, in a way that would have been more realistic and innovative, but harder for most players to grok). I don't think the way they interacted was "inaccurate" per se - each creature that the zerg assimilated DID start with their own limited intelligence and willpower. For certain strains, it was beneficial to the swarm to steer their mutations towards blind obedience. In other cases they deliberately steered them towards a certain amount of intelligence and consciousness to help maintain control of the swarm. Individuals can exist within a hive, they just don't value their life/freedom over the hive. Also bear in mind that the "interpersonal disputes" among the cerebrates tended to revolve around Kerrigan who had maintained a lot of human-like mental quirks, I assume.
R
Raemon777
I just thought she was boring. There are plenty of one dimensional villains that I've found entertaining. (Sue Sylvester of "Glee," prior to her "oh I suddenly have a soft spot" episode might qualify. Jafar from Aladdin. I have no particular argument for why she was boring. I just thought she was.How do we disagree if your arguments about it where only that she was too one dimensional?! That's exactly what a generic evil person is...
I do think Overmind and Co. could have been done better (or more accurately, done differently, in a way that would have been more realistic and innovative, but harder for most players to grok). I don't think the way they interacted was "inaccurate" per se - each creature that the zerg assimilated DID start with their own limited intelligence and willpower. For certain strains, it was beneficial to the swarm to steer their mutations towards blind obedience. In other cases they deliberately steered them towards a certain amount of intelligence and consciousness to help maintain control of the swarm. Individuals can exist within a hive, they just don't value their life/freedom over the hive. Also bear in mind that the "interpersonal disputes" among the cerebrates tended to revolve around Kerrigan who had maintained a lot of human-like mental quirks, I assume.
#75
@Li3n
The Zerg where more like mind controled by the Overmind then sharing a mind (and having the Overmind simply as the best part of their brain).
@Li3n
Well that is something i can't bring arguments against...I just thought she was boring. There are plenty of one dimensional villains that I've found entertaining. (Sue Sylvester of "Glee," prior to her "oh I suddenly have a soft spot" episode might qualify. Jafar from Aladdin. I have no particular argument for why she was boring. I just thought she was.
I see a hivemind and an "ant colony" where every individual is simply wholly subservient to the "queen" as different things... a hivemind wouldn't have any individuality as they all should share the same mind... any disagreements should be simply the same as you thinking about something and looking at it form more angles.I do think Overmind and Co. could have been done better (or more accurately, done differently, in a way that would have been more realistic and innovative, but harder for most players to grok). I don't think the way they interacted was "inaccurate" per se - each creature that the zerg assimilated DID start with their own limited intelligence and willpower. For certain strains, it was beneficial to the swarm to steer their mutations towards blind obedience. In other cases they deliberately steered them towards a certain amount of intelligence and consciousness to help maintain control of the swarm. Individuals can exist within a hive, they just don't value their life/freedom over the hive. Also bear in mind that the "interpersonal disputes" among the cerebrates tended to revolve around Kerrigan who had maintained a lot of human-like mental quirks, I assume.
The Zerg where more like mind controled by the Overmind then sharing a mind (and having the Overmind simply as the best part of their brain).