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http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Fire-C...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1321408942&pf_rd_i=507846

I know what I'll be buying in Novemeber.

Meh. I've yet to find a need for iPads or anything like that. I'm still not into the whole Kindle thing, either. Fill your boots, though!

For the iPad to "suck it", it's going to need some pretty good app support. Better than Angry Birds. Most people use the iPad as more than just an eReader.

fade said:

For the iPad to "suck it", it's going to need some pretty good app support. Better than Angry Birds. Most people use the iPad as more than just an eReader.

Click to expand...

Amazon has the second biggest app store on the Android platform (only behind google's) and is still growing.

I'm excited to see this come out. Amazon has a brilliant strategy of not competing with the iPad in many ways. While it's similar to the iPad and will replace it for many things, there are some striking differences that will target a different audience.

For instance, no bluetooth - so no handsfree (ie, skype), nor a bluetooth keyboard. No cameras - this isn't an everything-in-one multimedia device, it's primary goal is for the consumption of content, not creation or communication. This is Amazon's primary strategy - develop devices people want that allow them to purchase more amazon content. Many people won't want or care about cameras or bluetooth, they just want a kindle that will play movies for the kids while they're in the doctor's office.

It has about the same resolution and processing power as the iPad 2, and beats the iPad 1 in a few ways.

It's very low cost compared to the cheapest iPad, and that alone will attract many users. In fact they will likely roll out high end devices later (especially with 3G) but for now they are very obviously targeting the low cost market that Apple is ignoring. There's big money to be made in a cheap almost-ipad.

I dislike the fact that the web browser connects to amazon's servers and preprocesses all the web content prior to the user viewing it - that can't end well, but it's not a big deal since it's an android device and you can get a number of other browsers for it.

It's a good solid hit to the iPad, and differentiates itself enough that it's not directly competing, but provides a great device to a group of people that apple is simply not serving at all, nevermind well.

As long as it sells well, they'll end up making a 3G version, and possibly a larger version with more features that might actually hit the ipad more directly.

Quite frankly I welcome the competition - Apple has the tendency to develop using older technology (cost and current consumption reasons) rather than the latest technology, and is content to avoid major feature upgrades unless someone is on their tail.

The current android environment is getting better, and better, and the iOS offerings are currently just average. Even the available android apps compare favorably with the iOS apps in terms of quality and quantity.

So: YAY!

I will eventually get one so that I can develop software for it, but I doubt it'll replace my iPad 1. I use the bluetooth keyboard and the 3G quite a bit. Further, I own over 600 apps on the iOS market, and replacing just my primary apps would still be an expensive proposition in the android market.

http://www.techcentral.co.za/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-review-better-than-the-ipad/26251/

^
Said "Suck it iPAD" a while back and the tablet that is still making me drool on a daily basis...

stienman said:

it's primary goal is for the consumption of content, not creation or communication. This is Amazon's primary strategy - develop devices people want that allow them to purchase more amazon content. Many people won't want or care about cameras or bluetooth, they just want a kindle that will play movies for the kids while they're in the doctor's office.

Click to expand...

That's the key right there. It doesn't need to directly compete with the iPad. This is really meant to boost their Amazon Prime subscriptions and sell more e-books. They may not have as many videos available for streaming, but it's still cheaper than Netflix. Plus you get free shipping on stuff you buy from them.

I might be more interested in it once it's rooted.

Wow, that thing is cheap. When they make the second generation one that fills in some of the holes of this model, I am in.

I just (a coupe months ago) bought my wife a Nook Color. Now she's pissed at me. She originally wanted a Kindle, but compared to the Nook Color they sucked. I swear I wasn't withholding information! It just got announced!

Hopefully this will actually be some real competition for the iPad. Apple needs to be pushed by some good competition, which will require more than just a slick tablet but a great store/video/music service to back it up. Which Amazon has. Color me interested.

Frankie Williamson said:

Wow, that thing is cheap. When they make the second generation one that fills in some of the holes of this model I am in.

Click to expand...

They make all sorts of things to fill the holes of models. Which one are you in?

Espy said:

Hopefully this will actually be some real competition for the iPad. Apple needs to be pushed by some good competition, which will require more than just a slick tablet but a great store/video/music service to back it up. Which Amazon has. Color me interested.

Click to expand...

There is real competition, it's called the Galaxy Tab. The reason why it'll never over take the iPad is the same reason the Kindle never will. It's an Apple "i" item. they'll always be the most popular for the name. They're the McDonald's of technology. Always inferior yet always the most sold.

Galaxy Tabs and iPads are both ridiculously expensive. This thing actually might be able to compete on price alone.

Yeah, if I'm spending 500+ bucks, I'm getting a laptop, not a stupid tablet.

For 200 bucks, I might look at a tablet if it's nifty enough.

Espy said:

Hopefully this will actually be some real competition for the iPad. Apple needs to be pushed by some good competition, which will require more than just a slick tablet but a great store/video/music service to back it up. Which Amazon has. Color me interested.

Click to expand...

Samsung Galaxy 10.1 is a good contender, in fact so good that Apple feels compelled to fight it with legal measures, rather than simply beating it on the iPad's own merits.

I think we're really seeing the second generation of android tablets right now, and the third generation will truly be on par.

One thing Apple has controlled and cultivated very carefully is the development environment. While lots of Android apps exist to compete with the iOS apps, few tablet android apps exist which compete in quality and quantity with the iOS tablet apps. For developers, developing a beautiful experience on the android is about 10x harder than for iPhone and iPad due to the many variations of hardware that exist in the android ecosystem. There are only 3 iOS form factors - iPod and iPhone low resolution (and no gyro), iPod and iPhone high resolution (with gyro), and iPad (with or without gyro). There are many more options with Android, and due to the shortcomings of the OS, many manufacturers have chosen to build their own UI on top of android, further confusing the matter.

I am glad there's competition in the Android marketplace, but on the flipside as a developer I have to submit to several android marketplaces, and they each have their own terms and conditions and payment systems.

It's getting better, and the fact that there's room to grow is to android's advantage. We'll have to see what the next generation of android tablets produces in terms of sales.

I'm glad, though, that there's a real good option in the Kindle Fire - this will really stoke the android tablet app marketplace.

Frankie Williamson said:

Galaxy Tabs and iPads are both ridiculously expensive. This thing actually might be able to compete on price alone.

Click to expand...

Except that it's not a tablet, it's an e-reader, so it's not exactly going to be competition.

GasBandit said:

Yeah, if I'm spending 500+ bucks, I'm getting a laptop, not a stupid tablet.

For 200 bucks, I might look at a tablet if it's nifty enough.

Click to expand...

You won't see a "nifty" tablet for $200 though, that's the problem. However the Galaxy Tab is nearly $200 cheaper than the iPad and more flexible. As for preferring a laptop? If I'm not going to be gaming on a system, I want it as portable and convienent as possible and in that field, a tablet will out-do a laptop anytime.

Shegokigo said:

Except that it's not a tablet, it's an e-reader, so it's not exactly going to be competition.

Click to expand...

What is the difference between a tablet, and ereader, and a PDA/Phone?

Quacks like a duck.

---Damn you Steinman.

I can't tell you 100% because I'm not familiar with e-readers but from what I can gather, the tablet can run a variety of apps, surf the web, watch videos, read e-books, play app games, transport files via HD from one system to another, etc. while the ereader is for books alone?

That Fire E-Reader there has access to multimedia and Amazon's Android store. Seems awfully tabletty.

Shegokigo said:

Except that it's not a tablet, it's an e-reader, so it's not exactly going to be competition.

You won't see a "nifty" tablet for $200 though, that's the problem. However the Galaxy Tab is nearly $200 cheaper than the iPad and more flexible. As for preferring a laptop? If I'm not going to be gaming on a system, I want it as portable and convienent as possible and in that field, a tablet will out-do a laptop anytime.

Click to expand...

stienman said:

What is the difference between a tablet, and ereader, and a PDA/Phone?

Click to expand...

I expect it to get niftier once it's rooted. It's using a highly customized android build... once you can start loading other roms on that sucker, it could get pretty nifty indeed.

No tablet will ever be good enough for gaming, in my opinion, however. Angry birds doesn't count.

stienman said:

Samsung Galaxy 10.1 is a good contender, in fact so good that Apple feels compelled to fight it with legal measures, rather than simply beating it on the iPad's own merits.

I think we're really seeing the second generation of android tablets right now, and the third generation will truly be on par.

One thing Apple has controlled and cultivated very carefully is the development environment. While lots of Android apps exist to compete with the iOS apps, few tablet android apps exist which compete in quality and quantity with the iOS tablet apps. For developers, developing a beautiful experience on the android is about 10x harder than for iPhone and iPad due to the many variations of hardware that exist in the android ecosystem. There are only 3 iOS form factors - iPod and iPhone low resolution (and no gyro), iPod and iPhone high resolution (with gyro), and iPad (with or without gyro). There are many more options with Android, and due to the shortcomings of the OS, many manufacturers have chosen to build their own UI on top of android, further confusing the matter.

I am glad there's competition in the Android marketplace, but on the flipside as a developer I have to submit to several android marketplaces, and they each have their own terms and conditions and payment systems.

It's getting better, and the fact that there's room to grow is to android's advantage. We'll have to see what the next generation of android tablets produces in terms of sales.

I'm glad, though, that there's a real good option in the Kindle Fire - this will really stoke the android tablet app marketplace.

Click to expand...

One thing that will cause some issues for any competitor I would imagine, will be the fact that millions and millions of folks who have iPhones and iPods already own hundreds of apps already from the iOS store that can go right on their iPads. Many won't want to have to repurchase all of those. That ecosystem is hard to beat. Still, this Amazon tablet looks to be the best hope non-apple tablets have to provide stiff competition, especially with that sweet price point. Hell, at that price point it's a toy to buy for fun, where the iPad is a freaking commitment at 600+.

Frankie Williamson said:

That Fire E-Reader there has access to multimedia and Amazon's Android store. Seems awfully tabletty.

Click to expand...

Honestly for me what does it is the ability to have full net access (flash, videos, downloads etc) and a customizable interface/system settings. If it's just an e-reader that can play a video off it's HD or access restricted apps from Amazon? It's nothing like a tablet.

By your definition even the iPad isn't a tablet.

Frankly I've never seen the allure of the tablet, at current prices. Everything they can do a laptop of the same price can do even better. The added portability is not enough in my opinion to justify the loss in capability.

But like the man said - for 200 bucks, it's more of a toy/gadget/impulse buy.

The iPad has full net access with the exception of flash, it has a huge market of apps that allow it's interface/settings to be customized, it does alot more than just read e-books/have limited apps. So I don't see your comparison.

@Gas - The only allure a laptop has over a solid tablet is PC gaming and if I'm gaming, I'm doing it at home on a desktop anyway. For everythingelse? Surfing the web, reading e-books, keeping my apppointments, writing stories, posting on forums, etc I'd take a tablet over a laptop. The portability allure is very strong, because I can use it at work, I can use it in my car while waiting at stop lights/traffic, I can carry it in my purse and use it while I'm grocery shopping, I can use it in the kitchen when I'm cooking etc.

Out of curiosity, since it'll be going full colour for everything else, how will it affect the e-reader part of it? While I haven't gone and gotten an e-reader yet, I liked its back lighting, giving it a very page-like look to the screen. Will it be able to switch back-lighting or something?

(Note: I'm not a technical guy, so a lot of this goes over my head.)

ThatNickGuy said:

Out of curiosity, since it'll be going full colour for everything else, how will it affect the e-reader part of it? While I haven't gone and gotten an e-reader yet, I liked its back lighting, giving it a very page-like look to the screen. Will it be able to switch back-lighting or something?

(Note: I'm not a technical guy, so a lot of this goes over my head.)

Click to expand...

No, the Fire has an LCD screen just like your computer. It emits light, whereas the e-ink screens the other kindle devices have are page-like in that they only reflect the available light.

You have to try both out to find out if the LCD vs E-Ink battle matters to your eyes. People I've talked to are pretty evenly matched - most are fine with either, some prefer one, some prefer the other. I'm fine with either system. In the last few years LCD technology has improved in this area - older LCD screens were not great for reading over long periods of time. Newer LCDs with better front glass and in plane switching seem to have resolved a lot of people's complaints relating to eye strain on portable devices.

The biggest advantage of e-ink is that the battery life is measured in weeks and months, whereas all LCD systems have a battery time measured in hours. A less discussed advantage is weight - LCD screen devices are noticeably heavier than e-ink devices, which can matter when your reading position requires you to support the device yourself.

Doesn't bother me - I charge nightly. It does matter to more casual users.

Shegokigo said:

The iPad has full net access with the exception of flash, it has a huge market of apps that allow it's interface/settings to be customized, it does alot more than just read e-books/have limited apps. So I don't see your comparison.

@Gas - The only allure a laptop has over a solid tablet is PC gaming and if I'm gaming, I'm doing it at home on a desktop anyway. For everythingelse? Surfing the web, reading e-books, keeping my apppointments, writing stories, posting on forums, etc I'd take a tablet over a laptop. The portability allure is very strong, because I can use it at work, I can use it in my car while waiting at stop lights/traffic, I can carry it in my purse and use it while I'm grocery shopping, I can use it in the kitchen when I'm cooking etc.

Click to expand...

Oh I disagree entirely. There's more difference than just gaming between a tablet and a PC. I can't build a database of the over 1000 movies my father owns on a tablet. I can remotely administrate some things on a tablet but only via a VNC app to a real computer, and even then the touchscreen interface and lack of a proper keyboard is an issue. Video playback also is nowhere near as reliable on a tablet as on a laptop running VLC. I can't torrent on a tablet. I can store way, way more media on a laptop than a tablet. I can install whatever browser I want on a laptop without having to root/jailbreak it. Years down the line, I can probably put more RAM in my laptop.

Frankly, a tablet is a laptop for console tards.

I don't think you read the part where I mentioned portability. You and I would use a laptop and a tablet for two completely different things. Everything you mentioned you'd use a laptop for? I'd never bother because that's what I use my PC for.

Frankly, a laptop is a PC for console tards.

I use a tablet for my everyday life. It's my address book, it's my to-do list, it's my web surfer when I have free time, it's my video watcher when I'm not at home, it's my app gamer when I'm away from my PC for a day or two, it's my entire library of books, it's my ingredient list when I'm cooking, it's my grocery list when I'm shopping, it's my mp3 player when I'm in my car, it's my free GPS, it's my instant on hands map and location finder, it's my voice/note recorder and the list goes on and on.

I already have a Kindle that I love to death, but damn if I'm not tempted to buy the new low end keyboardless Kindle.

Espy said:

Hopefully this will actually be some real competition for the iPad. Apple needs to be pushed by some good competition, which will require more than just a slick tablet but a great store/video/music service to back it up. Which Amazon has. Color me interested.

Click to expand...

This I agree with. I want to see an iPad killer, because although the iPad is nice, it could stand some competition to force it to be nicer.

Any tablet I get is going to have to pass the pooper test. If it is going to be too unwieldy or inconvenient for me to use it while on the pooper, then I'm not going to want it. Really, that should be the litmus test for ANY tablet.

Forget how well it works when I'm on a bus/plane/break/hotel bed, it's the performance on the throne that really matters.

--Patrick

Shegokigo said:

I don't think you read the part where I mentioned portability. You and I would use a laptop and a tablet for two completely different things. Everything you mentioned you'd use a laptop for? I'd never bother because that's what I use my PC for.

Frankly, a laptop is a PC for console tards.

I use a tablet for my everyday life. It's my address book, it's my to-do list, it's my web surfer when I have free time, it's my video watcher when I'm not at home, it's my app gamer when I'm away from my PC for a day or two, it's my entire library of books, it's my ingredient list when I'm cooking, it's my grocery list when I'm shopping, it's my mp3 player when I'm in my car, it's my free GPS, it's my instant on hands map and location finder, it's my voice/note recorder and the list goes on and on.

Click to expand...

... all of that is accomplished on a previous generation smart phone that you could get for $0 with contract, and on top of all that it's a phone and instant hotspot. And I know you have one.

Completely true Gas, and you're right I do.

So why do I want a tablet? Because bigger is better and I want a 10in screen instead of the 4in I have now.

That's what she said.

Shegokigo said:

Because bigger is better and I want a 10in ... instead of the 4in I have now.

Click to expand...

Chandler: "I KNEW IT!"

Oh boys, if you only knew.

Shegokigo said:

Oh boys, if you only knew.

Click to expand...

So the rumours about what the vibrate functions is really for are true...

Aaaand here comes the 10.1 version.

GasBandit said:

Aaaand here comes the 10.1 version.

Click to expand...

Ok, after doing some reading, the Kindle Fire is NOT an e-reader. It IS a Tablet and it actually does everything I'd want in a tablet (Android Market, internal HD, Wifi, Complete Web Surfing, customizable settings/interfaces) and takes out the stuff I don't care about too much (Microphone, Cameras).

The only thing I was on the ropes about at that point was the 7in screen. Now there will be a 10in screen? If they keep it under $300, somewhere around $250? I'll buy on release day. Guaranteed.

I hope the bigger version has some sort of support for mobile internet. So much of what this tablet is about is streaming and online content. Being dependent on a wifi connection doesn't make much sense to me.

Being dependant on a wifi connection means nothing to me as I already have mobile internet on my phone plan. A simple tether app and I have moblie wifi for the Kindle Fire.

Shakey said:

I hope the bigger version has some sort of support for mobile internet. So much of what this tablet is about is streaming and online content. Being dependent on a wifi connection doesn't make much sense to me.

Click to expand...

Wifi hotspots are everywhere now, and as Shego mentions, most smartphones these days can become a wifi hotspot if you need it to.
Added at: 11:15
Though I need to amend that - between Amarillo and Albuquerque, there is not only no wifi, but also no 3G. It's like going back in time 15 years.

Driving down the highway you're not going to be able to grab a wifi signal. They're expecting you to stream all of your content, but they only give you an unreliable source of internet connection. Granted, cell connections aren't everywhere, but they are a whole lot more available than wifi hotspots.

Yet I just stated that if you already have a data plan with a phone, you can tether it to the Kindle Fire and have your wifi, even out on the highway.
Added at: 17:38
However, if you don't have a dataplan with a phone, I can see the frustration of it being wifi only.

Very few phones have the option to tether with wifi right now, and it can be a pain in the ass if you aren't very computer literate. They need to make it as easy as possible to reach their content for it to work for the masses.

*I'm talking more on how usable this will be for people in general, not if it will work for you specifically or not.

Actually there are free apps on the Amazon market right now that automate the entire process.

I don't think you realize how stupid most people are when it comes to electronics.

Shakey said:

I don't think you realize how stupid most people are

Click to expand...

Fixed

The majority of stupid people wouldn't use the 3G, they'd use wifi hot spots, which is why you see so many people huddled at Burger King's or McDonald's leeching wifi on laptops.

I favor stupidity punishing the stupid.

GasBandit said:

Oh I disagree entirely. There's more difference than just gaming between a tablet and a PC. I can't build a database of the over 1000 movies my father owns on a tablet. I can remotely administrate some things on a tablet but only via a VNC app to a real computer, and even then the touchscreen interface and lack of a proper keyboard is an issue. Video playback also is nowhere near as reliable on a tablet as on a laptop running VLC. I can't torrent on a tablet. I can store way, way more media on a laptop than a tablet. I can install whatever browser I want on a laptop without having to root/jailbreak it. Years down the line, I can probably put more RAM in my laptop.

Frankly, a tablet is a laptop for console tards.

Click to expand...

Yes you can there are apps and DB programs you can use on your iOS to build database. My wife is using a software to keep track of her 1000+ DVDs, mangas and books.
remote admin is coming along. There are some apps (in the works) for remote via iPads. I know that my boss does some work via the iPad for server management.
The touchscreen is not as good as keyboard, but there are bluetooth keyboard for iPads now.
Video playback is not bad. Even with HDMI output, looks good on LCD screen (50" TV)
Storage is a major issue on iPad vs Laptop

Chibibar said:

Yes you can there are apps and DB programs you can use on your iOS to build database. My wife is using a software to keep track of her 1000+ DVDs, mangas and books.
remote admin is coming along. There are some apps (in the works) for remote via iPads. I know that my boss does some work via the iPad for server management.
The touchscreen is not as good as keyboard, but there are bluetooth keyboard for iPads now.
Video playback is not bad. Even with HDMI output, looks good on LCD screen (50" TV)
Storage is a major issue on iPad vs Laptop

Click to expand...

When you put an external keyboard on a tablet, it's not a tablet any more... it's a 2 piece, low storage laptop with an OEM-limited OS.

Shakey said:

Very few phones have the option to tether with wifi right now, and it can be a pain in the ass if you aren't very computer literate. They need to make it as easy as possible to reach their content for it to work for the masses.

*I'm talking more on how usable this will be for people in general, not if it will work for you specifically or not.

Click to expand...

True. That is why companies like Verizon is coming out with MiFi units (We have 6 here at work for checkout) they are just portal hotspot on the verizon network. It is pretty fast 4G/3G system. I was testing it driving from Dallas to Austin and my wife was using it to watch movies on her iPad (Netflix of course) Since Verizon does have good coverage along the highway, we didn't have any single lost.

Yeah, I thought of the MiFi's after. I wonder how fast these things would use up the 5gb usage limit.

Shakey said:

Yeah, I thought of the MiFi's after. I wonder how fast these things would use up the 5gb usage limit.

Click to expand...

From what I understand, that's about 6 and a half movies.

GasBandit said:

From what I understand, that's about 6 and a half movies.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon decreases the quality for movies streaming to the devices. Still, add on the streaming music and whatever else and it'll get used up fairly quick if you aren't careful.

GasBandit said:

When you put an external keyboard on a tablet, it's not a tablet any more... it's a 2 piece, low storage laptop with an OEM-limited OS.

Click to expand...

Or as I call it, a Macbook.

A Macbook at a 10th of the price!

The MacBook Zephyr.

--Patrick

Shegokigo said:

A Macbook at a 10th of the price!

Click to expand...

Heh. I do love the "instant on" and ready to go with my iPad. I'm sure if I pay enough for a SSD, I can instaboot with my laptop/PC

GasBandit said:

From what I understand, that's about 6 and a half movies.

Click to expand...

Three if you're streaming high def, according to Netflix's website.