Superman Reboot

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@Li3n

@Li3n

Covar said:
I have to call Bullshit with this. Superman was sent to earth as an infant, not a young adult. By this logic a child whose family immigrates to America when they were a baby will never be an American, or know what it means to be an American. Superman does what he does because of the morals and values that were instilled to him by his parents. Not Jor-El and Lara, Jonathan and Martha Kent.
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If the kid had super-strength and was with the awareness that he's different then sure.

Sure, he was raised by the Kents, but he always had to be keenly aware that he's more then human (originally his powers where there even when he was a baby). And his kryptonian cultural heritage (and Jor-El and Lara) has always played a big part in most of his life in almost all incarnations.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

See, I'm of the belief that the best version of Superman is where his powers don't develop until his teenage years. With that in mind, then it works great for the idea that he thinks of himself as Clark first, Superman second. And that's the way I like to see him, personally. That's the way that they portrayed him in my favourite rendition of his mythos, The Animated Series.

Now, if he's referring more to the pre-Crisis Superman, where we see pictures of a baby Kal-El lifting cribs and trucks and such, then sure, that works.

And I do agree with parts of what Bill says. A lot of the comics are poorly written but the mythology is fantastic. That's the same for most superhero comes.

The most important thing to realize, though, is who is speaking about this belief: the bad guy. Bill is a villain. He's the Lex Luthor of the movies and therefore, has a different outlook on life than others. He's insane in many ways. So of course, much similar to how Luthor would percieve it, dressing up in a civilian identity who is clumsy, wears glasses, etc, is a sign of weakness. But that's part of the identity that he holds. It's not just a pair of glasses that trick people; it's his entire performance. It's not about how he percieves the ordinary human, it's that he is essentially the total opposite of Superman: weak, cowardly, quiet, clumsy, etc. No one would suspect Clark not because he looks similar to Superman, but because he acts entirely different from him.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

That is my point, Kal'el is not weak and clumsy, but Clark is. Clark is the costume he wears to fit in and hide in broad daylight. Does he need glasses to read? no. It is a disguise.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
But the glasses and weakness aren't the entirety of Clark Kent. He's also a Pullitzer Prize winning writer and a valued friend. Personally I think the Clark in the Justice League episode "Comfort and Joy" is more his identity than most of the Superman in any other episode. Also, I don't think that he has to be completely one or the other. It's not an issue of which one is the false front, because he's both. The glasses and the clumsiness aren't what make Clark, they're just a boundary between man and Superman.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Right, but he didn't grow up thinking of himself as Kal-El or Superman. He grew up as Clark, first. It's like in the Animated Series, where he accidentally rips off the wing of a crashing plane. He doesn't say "Nice one, Kal" or "Nice one, Superman". He says to himself, "Nice one, Clark".

It's the argument of nature vs. nurture. He doesn't see himself as a superior alien being because he wasn't raised that way. He was raised as a humble, small town, honest, hard working farmboy. The only thing that matters about where he comes from is that's how he got his powers, but it's not how he is as a person.

The thing is, Superman is his disguise. He puts on a strong face for everyone around him, but he tends to doubt himself because deep down, he still has those humble beginnings. He still thinks of himself as Clark, the kid in Smallville who always felt a little different. He would much rather lead a normal life, have a family with Lois, maybe own a farm of his own. But because of who he is and what he can do, he only feels responsible to put on the costume and do what's right. Because that's what he was raised to do. You take away his powers and he's still the same person underneath.

Personally, I see the Clark identity as his true identity. However, he plays THREE different roles: the one of Superman, Metropolis Clark Kent and Smallville Clark Kent. Smallville Clark Kent is who he really is; humble, honest, hard-working, a bit of a mama's boy, total boy scout, a little shy because he feels different from everyone else (something a lot of human beings can relate to). Metropolis Clark is kind of like a pro-wrestler. Some have said that most successful characters, such as Steve Austin, are the ones who take their real personality and just push it a little furhter in the extreme. And that's Metropolis Clark Kent. He's still a good, hard-working guy, but he's also shy, unsure of himself, etc. But all three are always the kind of guy who you can go to for help.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

Also, can I just say for a moment that it's discussions like this that make me glad that I came back? :) I love you guys so much. You know, in that platonic fellow-Halforumite kinda way. :)
 
Calleja

Calleja

Goddammit, now I need to watch justice league...

should i start from the beginning or just go straight to JLU? Or skip JLU and just watch JU? Or just watch S:TAS instead? Or should I just shut up and watch Superman with Mr. Reeve?

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

Also, Nick, I don't really see Metropolis Clark and Smallville Clarks as different personas... it's the same guy in a different setting, home vs work. Any guy that comes from a small town and moves to the big city is gonna act a bit differently, but it doesn't mean it's a different persona.

100% agree with the rest of your post, though.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Really, any of the DCAU (DC Animated Universe) is great to watch. Batman: THe Animated Series (not THE Batman, which sucks), Superman, Batman Beyond, JL and JLU. I would say you'd be best off to watch 'em all right from Batman through to the end of JLU to fully appreciate everything, but you don't necessarily HAVE to.

And yeah, that's a good point about work vs. home. He acts different at home with Lois, for example. And I'd say in the last 5-10 years, most writers have portrayed Clark just as capable, winner Pulitzers and such. I love how Mark Waid writes him in Birthright. It's not so much that he's cowardly and shy, it's that he's near unnoticeable at the Daily Planet. He avoids fratenizing for the most part, works during the parties, etc. He's like that quiet guy at work that's a good guy, but just really quiet and anti-social. As Perry White said to him, "How the hell did a mousey guy like you get a Pulitzer winning interview with *some famous leader*!?!" That's paraphrasing, since I don't have the book in front of me.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Bill's also very old, older then Dave even... like i told JCM, for someone his age pre-crisis Supes was around way longer, so it's easy to see why he would consider that the definitive version.

And you all are talking about the Byrne reboot...

Goddammit, now I need to watch justice league...

should i start from the beginning or just go straight to JLU? Or skip JLU and just watch JU? Or just watch S:TAS instead? Or should I just shut up and watch Superman with Mr. Reeve?
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Well the first 2 films you should see anyhow, and if you're gonna start the DCAU Batman: TAS is a must see, it's still one of teh best cartoons ever.
 
S

Soliloquy

I just think that Tarantino dialogue scene sucks because it's long and drawn out without any tension, since Beatrix is drugged and we know that nothing's going to happen in that scene besides a barely-interesting lecture.

Tarantino's most effective dialogue scenes involve a crapload of tension. For instance, the dialogue between Bill and Beatrix at the wedding rehearsal in Kill Bill Vol. 2 is very effective because we know that Bill is going to kill everyone at the end of it, giving everything that's said a sadistic twist. The dialogue between Vincent and Mia is effective because there's a clear sexual tension that we know could end very badly if Vincent gives in. Pretty much every dialogue scene in Inglourious Basterds works because they all involve Nazis that would kill the people they're talking to if they knew who they were (save the dialogue scenes at the beginning and end, which have tension for other reasons).

But the superman lecture? We know nothing's going to happen during the scene, and we know something awesome is going to happen after the scene, so the only thing I felt while watching it can be summed up thusly:

 
Bowielee

Bowielee

If you're going to dive fully into the DCAU, you have to start with Batman: TAS, then Superman: TAS, then Justice League, then JLU. Definately don't jump right to JLU as there are things from the first series that are alluded to strongly in JLU.
 
A

Alucard

I just don't think any live action movie of Superman would do well in my opinion.
Now an animated one with a decent enough budget could pull it off though.
 
Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

Not the best choice, but try www.Seriesyonkis.com

Sometimes, the shows are just in spanish (American or from Spain) but you may find them in english with awful subtitles, wich I usually cover with a small browser window.

At least it will allow you to "try" a few episodes of a series before deciding if you want to watch it or not. It worked for me and LOST. I saw the first episode, loved it, and got the first season for christmas on DVD. And I'm completely hooked.
 
Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

I'm so tempted to try to write a short film with this "You don't know this is Bizarro" idea... I don't think I can make it work, but, damn! I want to!
 
L

LordRavage

Silver Jelly said:
I'm so tempted to try to write a short film with this "You don't know this is Bizarro" idea... I don't think I can make it work, but, damn! I want to!
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Write it anyway. Worst thing that could happen is everyone calling you a hack. I would read it. :)
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

If you're only fat you'd be a micro-Kurtz. Mini-Kurtz would be obese.












.....I'm sorry. I don't really mean that Kurt.
 
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