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Verdict is in. Apparently it's still cool for them to ask for papers, but that's it:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-182b5e1.pdf

Ed: Whoops I meant Arizona. Look it's a backwards state that starts with the Letter A. Actually aren't all states that start with "A" a bit backwards.

Even some provinces, too. Alberta, for example.

ThatNickGuy said:

Even some provinces, too. Alberta, for example.

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Provincial healthcare that includes family planning, subsidised education, gay marriage, pro-immigration... Yeah, I basically live in a hellscape of regressive ideology.

Huh, my bad. I was under the assumption it was like a Canadian version of Texas.

Well, Texas doesn't start with an A so I don't think it falls into that category.

ThatNickGuy said:

Huh, my bad. I was under the assumption it was like a Canadian version of Texas.

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We Albertans will forgive you... this time...

Necronic said:

Actually aren't all states that start with "A" a bit backwards.

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I thought Alaska was all right until someone decided to run for vice president.

Necronic said:

Verdict is in. Apparently it's still cool for them to ask for papers, but that's it:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-182b5e1.pdf

Ed: Whoops I meant Arizona. Look it's a backwards state that starts with the Letter A. Actually aren't all states that start with "A" a bit backwards.

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I will always marvel at the US immigration system and it's stance toward illegals because as far as I know it's unparalleled in both volume and treatment of illegals (Sanctuary cities, for example). Many countries have national IDs which identify citizenship (or not). Other countries have regular crackdowns---like China is now for example. Police have been raiding Shanghai and Beijing night clubs to catch foreigners living in China on illegal or expired visas (Guangzhou alone might have over 100,000 illegal African immigrants) and deporting them--a move that has received support from both Chinese and foreigners.. Korea and Japan offer monetary rewards for reporting illegals to police. Mexico shoots them on their southern border and European countries, like Italy, regularly ship entire boatloads of refugees back where they came from. The sheer volume makes it harder to understand as well. In Canada, wiki's highest stated estimate for illegals is 120,000. Compared to the 7-20 million in the US.


But somehow Arizona is the backward state for wanting to combat a very real problem that seems to affecting the residents living in the area. It might be fair to say that unless you happen to live in AZ, it's hard to make a judgement call on the apparent 'backwardness' of their approach as it's not an issue that you have to deal with on a daily basis.

How is it wrong, that somebody that is in a traffic stop for something else, shouldn't provide proper identification? Last I noticed, we ALL have to provide that if we are pulled over. It's called your driver's license. Illegals are a problem, they destroy property (cutting/breaking fences on private property, leaving trash mounds along the path they have chosen into the country, killing plants and trees in areas they are using for toilets...) and cost legal immigrants respect because they are breaking our laws. You enter Mexico illegally and are found/caught you will be in jail or possibly killed outright because you were caught by drug gangs that think you're looking for them. It's not as bad in Texas as Arizona, because we do have a river in the way, but a problem none the less.

The problem comes in when racial profiling rears its ugly head. Or a legal citizen, possibly even one who was the 3rd generation born here, is thrown in jail and threatened with deportation because he/she forgot her driver's license that day.

I think things get so polarized with America because our country is basically built by immigrants. That makes it a very divisive issue for many.

Bowielee said:

I think things get so polarized with America because our country is basically built by immigrants. That makes it a very divisive issue for many.

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Basically this. It's much easier for a lot of countries to enforce this kind of thing correctly because they have a huge, mono-ethnic culture and population. China is full of Chinese people. Anyone not Asian is more likely to be a tourist, investor or an illegal than a citizen. Doing a papers check seems reasonable because of the ethnic make-up of the country.

You can't do that in America. We have HUGE populations of varied ethnic groups, some of which stretch back hundreds of years. You really can't look in a room and say for sure who is and isn't a citizen by sight alone.

AshburnerX said:

Basically this. It's much easier for a lot of countries to enforce this kind of thing correctly because they have a huge, mono-ethnic culture and population. China is full of Chinese people. Anyone not Asian is more likely to be a tourist, investor or an illegal than a citizen. Doing a papers check seems reasonable because of the ethnic make-up of the country.

You can't do that in America. We have HUGE populations of varied ethnic groups, some of which stretch back hundreds of years. You really can't look in a room and say for sure who is and isn't a citizen by sight alone.

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Absolutely. However that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some enforcement either. Illegals that are caught (especially after being arrested for crimes) and are not deported galls me the most.

7-20 million illegal immigrants means the system isn't working. I am all for a streamlined, easier immigration process.

Should I ever get married to a Chinese woman, the hoops and hoops and hoops surrounded by hell flame I'd have to jump through just to get her on American soil is breathtaking. It's a sad day when It's easier become a legal citizen with all the benefits by jumping a fence than by following the legal code and doing things legit.

I thought marriage automatically granted citizenship... It's sure the premise of enough crappy movies and sitcoms.

Bowielee said:

I thought marriage automatically granted citizenship... It's sure the premise of enough crappy movies and sitcoms.

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It does not. At the very least, I'd likely have to wait for at least a year in China, filling out all the paperwork and paying large fees to *maybe* get her a green card (which is not citizenship, just legal residency). Then she'd have to go through the process of getting citizenship following the green card.

Pretty sure you can get a visa for residency while your waiting for your green card, as long as your spouse is already a citizen. She'd be able to live here, but risk being kicked out if she didn't get the green card for some reason.

Generally speaking, it takes 5-6 years for a spouse to get citizenship, counting all the hoops.

Terrik said:

I will always marvel at the US immigration system and it's stance toward illegals because as far as I know it's unparalleled in both volume and treatment of illegals (Sanctuary cities, for example). Many countries have national IDs which identify citizenship (or not). Other countries have regular crackdowns---like China is now for example. Police have been raiding Shanghai and Beijing night clubs to catch foreigners living in China on illegal or expired visas (Guangzhou alone might have over 100,000 illegal African immigrants) and deporting them--a move that has received support from both Chinese and foreigners.. Korea and Japan offer monetary rewards for reporting illegals to police. Mexico shoots them on their southern border and European countries, like Italy, regularly ship entire boatloads of refugees back where they came from. The sheer volume makes it harder to understand as well. In Canada, wiki's highest stated estimate for illegals is 120,000. Compared to the 7-20 million in the US.


But somehow Arizona is the backward state for wanting to combat a very real problem that seems to affecting the residents living in the area. It might be fair to say that unless you happen to live in AZ, it's hard to make a judgement call on the apparent 'backwardness' of their approach as it's not an issue that you have to deal with on a daily basis.

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One thing that always chaps my ass is when foreigners talk shit on america's immigration policy, when in fact, historically and currently, we have arguably the single most liberal immigration policy of any country in the (first) world. In all honesty, most european immigration policies strike me as incredibly xenophobic, and borderline racist.

It's refreshing to hear a foreigner talk like you are.

Necronic said:

It's refreshing to hear a foreigner talk like you are.

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!

Oh God, it's finally happened.

I've been in China too long.

我叫史蒂夫， 我是中国人

My name is Steve. I am an Amer...A....Ameri.....American.

S-s-o-cial security number.....

urrgghk.

I don't think anyone, liberal or conservative, doesn't think that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. (I feel like I make this statement a LOT, only scratch out "illegal immigration", insert X.) It's more that a lot of people think that this is not the right way to do it, and it seems like that feeling crosses party lines.

fade said:

I don't think anyone, liberal or conservative, doesn't think that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. (I feel like I make this statement a LOT, only scratch out "illegal immigration", insert X.) It's more that a lot of people think that this is not the right way to do it, and it seems like that feeling crosses party lines.

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fade said:

I don't think anyone, liberal or conservative, doesn't think that illegal immigration needs to be addressed

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fade said:

I don't think anyone, [. . .] doesn't think that...

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wat?

ThatNickGuy said:

Huh, my bad. I was under the assumption it was like a Canadian version of Texas.

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It is, we almost voted in a provincial government so right wing it makes the conservatives look like the NDP.

Ravenpoe said:

wat?

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Double negative; "I think everyone thinks illegal immigration needs to be addressed"; seems pretty straighforward to me. I can think of some people who DON'T want illegal immigration addressed, but that's a completely other topic of discussion so let's not.

Frank said:

It is, we almost voted in a provincial government so right wing it makes the conservatives look like the NDP.

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We must not live in the same province.

I audibly scoff every time mexico criticizes our immigration policies and border enforcement when their own is absolutely draconian and xenophobic.

Anyway, my stance has always been, sour the milk. Make the penalties for businesses who are employing illegals so onerous that it no longer becomes worth the risk, and watch them self-deport. But there's no political will for that. The Republican establishment wants cheaper-than-minimum-wage labor, and the Democrat establishment sees every illegal as a potential vote.

Azurephoenix said:

We must not live in the same province.

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It was a landslide by the skin of the teeth.

Frank said:

It was a landslide by the skin of the teeth.

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I suppose I can't argue with that.

GasBandit said:

I audibly scoff every time mexico criticizes our immigration policies and border enforcement when their own is absolutely draconian and xenophobic.

Anyway, my stance has always been, sour the milk. Make the penalties for businesses who are employing illegals so onerous that it no longer becomes worth the risk, and watch them self-deport. But there's no political will for that. The Republican establishment wants cheaper-than-minimum-wage labor, and the Democrat establishment sees every illegal as a potential vote.

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If they started enforcing the laws as written, all the gas drilling and construction in the area would stop overnight.

DarkAudit said:

If they started enforcing the laws as written, all the gas drilling and construction in the area would stop overnight.

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And resume later after a rebalancing of the economic equilibrium. You dirty republican you.

GasBandit said:

And resume later after a rebalancing of the economic equilibrium. You dirty republican you.

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You sure about that? Who else is going to be willing to get stuffed six to eight guys in a hotel room meant for a maximum of four people?

People who like money? I was under the impression that rig workers got paid fairly well because of just how dangerous it was to work on a rig.

AshburnerX said:

People who like money? I was under the impression that rig workers got paid fairly well because of just how dangerous it was to work on a rig.

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The ones who are paid well are usually one or two to a room, tops. It's the ones trying to do it on the cheap that pack the rooms with as many Mexicans as they can. Which is more often around here.