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Texas GOP Publishes Party Platform
#1
JONJONAUG
JONJONAUG
http://static.texastribune.org/media/documents/FINAL_2010_STATE_REPUBLICAN_PARTY_PLATFORM.pdf
Some highlights, with some good stuff and some horribly terrible stuff. Not putting it in quotes so it's easier to read.
We Believe in:
1. Strict adherence to the Declaration of Independence and U.S. and Texas Constitutions.
2. Preserving American Freedom and Texas Sovereignty.
3. Limiting the expanse of Government Power.
4. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.
5. Personal Accountability and Responsibility.
6. Self-sufficient families, founded on the traditional marriage of a natural man and a natural woman.
7. Having an educated population, with parents having the freedom of choice for the education of their children. [personal note: read on to see why this is bolded]
8. Americans having the right to be safe in their homes, on their streets, and in their communities, and the
unalienable right to defend themselves.
9. A free enterprise society unencumbered by government interference or subsidies.
10. Restoring American sovereignty and leadership, and we honor all of those that serve and protect our
freedom with peace through strength.
[...]
Patriot Act – We urge review and revision of those portions of the USA Patriot Act, and related executive and military orders and directives that erode constitutional rights and essential liberties of citizens.
[...]
Constitutional Convention – We oppose any constitutional convention to rewrite the United States Constitution. We
demand the Legislature rescind its 1977 call for such a convention. We call upon other states to rescind their votes for such a convention.
[...]
Restore Constitutional Integrity in the Legislative Process – We call upon the U.S. congress to pass legislation to restore Constitutional integrity in the legislative process demanding Single Issue Legislation that prohibits the current practice of inserting into otherwise unrelated legitimate legislation funding for or federal regulations for special interest issues into virtually every piece of legislation.
[...]
Protecting Union Member’s Dues – We support legislation requiring labor unions to obtain consent of the union member before that member’s dues can be used for political purposes. [personal note: I can get behind this]
Campaign Contributions – We support full disclosure of the amounts and sources of any campaign contributions to political candidates, whether contributed by individuals, political action committees, or other entities. [Oh hey this section looks pretty cool...]
Felon Voting – We affirm the Constitutional authority of state legislatures to regulate voting, including disenfranchisement of convicted felons. [God damnit]
Filibuster – We support return to the traditional Filibuster in the U.S. Senate.
[...]
Ten Commandments – We oppose any governmental action to restrict, prohibit, or remove public display of the
Decalogue or other religious symbols.
Pledge of Allegiance – We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also demand that the National Motto “In
God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack.
Symbols of American Heritage – We call upon governmental entities to protect all symbols of our American heritage from being altered in any way.
Confederate Widows Plaque – We call for restoration of plaques honoring the Confederate Widow’s Pension Fund contribution that were removed from the Texas Supreme Court building.
[...]
CELEBRATING TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE [oh boy, here we go, just pretend this entire section is in bold with extra bold for certain parts]
Family Values – We affirm that this section is a response to the attacks on traditional family values. These include wellfunded, vigorous political and judicial attempts by powerful organizations and branches of the government to force acceptance, affirmation and normalization of homosexual behavior upon school children, parents, educational institutions, businesses, employees, government bodies and religious institutions and charities. These aggressive, intolerant efforts marginalize as bigots anyone who dissents.
Marriage Licenses – We support legislation that would make it a felony to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple and for any civil official to perform a marriage ceremony for such.
Homosexuality – We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin), custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.
Texas Sodomy Statutes – We oppose the legalization of sodomy. We demand that Congress exercise its authority granted by the U.S. Constitution to withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy. [Sodomy in Texas is defined of "any oral or anal sex between two members of the same gender"]
Pornography – We urge our governmental bodies to enforce laws regarding all forms of pornography. We urge more stringent legislation to prohibit all pornography including virtual pornography and operation of sexually–oriented businesses. We oppose the sale of “Not Rated” (NR) movies and video games to minors.
[...]
PROTECTING INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE
Right To Life - [I'm too lazy to format this, but the gist is "repeal Roe vs Wade, ban all abortion"]
Sonograms – We urge the Texas legislature in its next biennial session to enact legislation requiring a sonogram be
performed and offered as part of the consent process to each mother seeking an elective abortion.
Morning After Pill – We oppose sale and use of the dangerous “Morning After Pill.”
Human Cloning – Each human life, whether created naturally or through an artificial process, deserves protection. We confirm that somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT) is the process by which a human being is cloned, and that SCNT creates a unique human being with the same properties of a human embryo created through the union of sperm and egg. We seek a ban on human cloning for reproductive purposes (where a cloned human embryo, created through SCNT, is implanted in a womb and the human clone is birthed). We also seek a ban on research cloning (where a cloned human embryo, created through SCNT, is created, grown in the laboratory, and then destroyed when its stem cells are extracted for research purposes). Furthermore, criminal penalties should be created and experimenters prosecuted who participate in the cloning of human beings. No government or state funding should be provided for any human cloning.
Gene Manufacturing – We support a ban on research that alters human DNA in living human beings at any stage of life, including the altering of artificial, manufactured, and natural genes and chromosomes.
[...]
Foster Care – We support eliminating bureaucratic prohibitions on corporal discipline and home schooling in foster homes to help alleviate the shortage of foster parents.
[...]
EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN
Classroom Discipline –We recommend that local school boards and classroom teachers be given more authority to deal with disciplinary problems. We urge the Legislature, Governor, Commissioner of Education and State Board of Education to remind administrators and school boards that corporal punishment is effective and legal in Texas.
Controversial Theories – Realizing that conflict and debate is a proven learning tool in classrooms, we support objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories, including evolution, Intelligent Design, global warming, political philosophies, and others. We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be taught as challengeable scientific theory subject to change as new data is produced, not scientific law. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.
Pledge of Allegiance in Public Schools – Students should be led daily in the Pledge of Allegiance, the Texas Pledge, the National Anthem, and be taught flag etiquette and patriotic songs to ensure that the loyal and patriotic spirit of Texan and American heritage is preserved.
Traditional Principles in Education – We support school subjects with emphasis on Judeo-Christian principles including the Ten Commandments) upon which America was founded and which form the basis of America’s legal, political and economic systems. We support curricula that are heavily weighted on original founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and Founders’ writings.
U.S. Department of Education – Education falls under the 10th Amendment to our United States Constitution. Given this, the Department of Education (DOE) and No Child Left Behind (NCLB) have no jurisdiction and must be repealed.
[...]
Judeo-Christian Nation – As America is a nation under God founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship in the religion of their choice.
And that's all I feel like posting, read the rest yourself. After this it's a mix of pretty good stuff and pretty horrible stuff.
tl;dr: Texas GOP party platform includes making the act of marrying a gay couple a felony, making all porn illegal, making sodomy illegal, bans cloning, bans abortion, loves the traditional Fillibuster, and would be pretty hilarious if it weren't real.
EDIT
AHAHAHAHA Never mind I have one more
Israel – Blah blah blah we support Israel. Our policy is based on God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.
Some highlights, with some good stuff and some horribly terrible stuff. Not putting it in quotes so it's easier to read.
We Believe in:
1. Strict adherence to the Declaration of Independence and U.S. and Texas Constitutions.
2. Preserving American Freedom and Texas Sovereignty.
3. Limiting the expanse of Government Power.
4. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.
5. Personal Accountability and Responsibility.
6. Self-sufficient families, founded on the traditional marriage of a natural man and a natural woman.
7. Having an educated population, with parents having the freedom of choice for the education of their children. [personal note: read on to see why this is bolded]
8. Americans having the right to be safe in their homes, on their streets, and in their communities, and the
unalienable right to defend themselves.
9. A free enterprise society unencumbered by government interference or subsidies.
10. Restoring American sovereignty and leadership, and we honor all of those that serve and protect our
freedom with peace through strength.
[...]
Patriot Act – We urge review and revision of those portions of the USA Patriot Act, and related executive and military orders and directives that erode constitutional rights and essential liberties of citizens.
[...]
Constitutional Convention – We oppose any constitutional convention to rewrite the United States Constitution. We
demand the Legislature rescind its 1977 call for such a convention. We call upon other states to rescind their votes for such a convention.
[...]
Restore Constitutional Integrity in the Legislative Process – We call upon the U.S. congress to pass legislation to restore Constitutional integrity in the legislative process demanding Single Issue Legislation that prohibits the current practice of inserting into otherwise unrelated legitimate legislation funding for or federal regulations for special interest issues into virtually every piece of legislation.
[...]
Protecting Union Member’s Dues – We support legislation requiring labor unions to obtain consent of the union member before that member’s dues can be used for political purposes. [personal note: I can get behind this]
Campaign Contributions – We support full disclosure of the amounts and sources of any campaign contributions to political candidates, whether contributed by individuals, political action committees, or other entities. [Oh hey this section looks pretty cool...]
Felon Voting – We affirm the Constitutional authority of state legislatures to regulate voting, including disenfranchisement of convicted felons. [God damnit]
Filibuster – We support return to the traditional Filibuster in the U.S. Senate.
[...]
Ten Commandments – We oppose any governmental action to restrict, prohibit, or remove public display of the
Decalogue or other religious symbols.
Pledge of Allegiance – We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also demand that the National Motto “In
God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack.
Symbols of American Heritage – We call upon governmental entities to protect all symbols of our American heritage from being altered in any way.
Confederate Widows Plaque – We call for restoration of plaques honoring the Confederate Widow’s Pension Fund contribution that were removed from the Texas Supreme Court building.
[...]
CELEBRATING TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE [oh boy, here we go, just pretend this entire section is in bold with extra bold for certain parts]
Family Values – We affirm that this section is a response to the attacks on traditional family values. These include wellfunded, vigorous political and judicial attempts by powerful organizations and branches of the government to force acceptance, affirmation and normalization of homosexual behavior upon school children, parents, educational institutions, businesses, employees, government bodies and religious institutions and charities. These aggressive, intolerant efforts marginalize as bigots anyone who dissents.
Marriage Licenses – We support legislation that would make it a felony to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple and for any civil official to perform a marriage ceremony for such.
Homosexuality – We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin), custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.
Texas Sodomy Statutes – We oppose the legalization of sodomy. We demand that Congress exercise its authority granted by the U.S. Constitution to withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy. [Sodomy in Texas is defined of "any oral or anal sex between two members of the same gender"]
Pornography – We urge our governmental bodies to enforce laws regarding all forms of pornography. We urge more stringent legislation to prohibit all pornography including virtual pornography and operation of sexually–oriented businesses. We oppose the sale of “Not Rated” (NR) movies and video games to minors.
[...]
PROTECTING INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE
Right To Life - [I'm too lazy to format this, but the gist is "repeal Roe vs Wade, ban all abortion"]
Sonograms – We urge the Texas legislature in its next biennial session to enact legislation requiring a sonogram be
performed and offered as part of the consent process to each mother seeking an elective abortion.
Morning After Pill – We oppose sale and use of the dangerous “Morning After Pill.”
Human Cloning – Each human life, whether created naturally or through an artificial process, deserves protection. We confirm that somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT) is the process by which a human being is cloned, and that SCNT creates a unique human being with the same properties of a human embryo created through the union of sperm and egg. We seek a ban on human cloning for reproductive purposes (where a cloned human embryo, created through SCNT, is implanted in a womb and the human clone is birthed). We also seek a ban on research cloning (where a cloned human embryo, created through SCNT, is created, grown in the laboratory, and then destroyed when its stem cells are extracted for research purposes). Furthermore, criminal penalties should be created and experimenters prosecuted who participate in the cloning of human beings. No government or state funding should be provided for any human cloning.
Gene Manufacturing – We support a ban on research that alters human DNA in living human beings at any stage of life, including the altering of artificial, manufactured, and natural genes and chromosomes.
[...]
Foster Care – We support eliminating bureaucratic prohibitions on corporal discipline and home schooling in foster homes to help alleviate the shortage of foster parents.
[...]
EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN
Classroom Discipline –We recommend that local school boards and classroom teachers be given more authority to deal with disciplinary problems. We urge the Legislature, Governor, Commissioner of Education and State Board of Education to remind administrators and school boards that corporal punishment is effective and legal in Texas.
Controversial Theories – Realizing that conflict and debate is a proven learning tool in classrooms, we support objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories, including evolution, Intelligent Design, global warming, political philosophies, and others. We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be taught as challengeable scientific theory subject to change as new data is produced, not scientific law. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.
Pledge of Allegiance in Public Schools – Students should be led daily in the Pledge of Allegiance, the Texas Pledge, the National Anthem, and be taught flag etiquette and patriotic songs to ensure that the loyal and patriotic spirit of Texan and American heritage is preserved.
Traditional Principles in Education – We support school subjects with emphasis on Judeo-Christian principles including the Ten Commandments) upon which America was founded and which form the basis of America’s legal, political and economic systems. We support curricula that are heavily weighted on original founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and Founders’ writings.
U.S. Department of Education – Education falls under the 10th Amendment to our United States Constitution. Given this, the Department of Education (DOE) and No Child Left Behind (NCLB) have no jurisdiction and must be repealed.
[...]
Judeo-Christian Nation – As America is a nation under God founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship in the religion of their choice.
And that's all I feel like posting, read the rest yourself. After this it's a mix of pretty good stuff and pretty horrible stuff.
tl;dr: Texas GOP party platform includes making the act of marrying a gay couple a felony, making all porn illegal, making sodomy illegal, bans cloning, bans abortion, loves the traditional Fillibuster, and would be pretty hilarious if it weren't real.
EDIT
AHAHAHAHA Never mind I have one more
Israel – Blah blah blah we support Israel. Our policy is based on God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.
#2
Krisken
Krisken
Jesus christ in a bucket. I didn't even get through "We oppose any constitutional convention to rewrite the United States Constitution" before my brain started to rebel against me. There are a couple good things, but the religious dogma is fucking ridiculous.
Overall- Fuck you, Texas GOP. Fuck you in the ear.
Overall- Fuck you, Texas GOP. Fuck you in the ear.
#3
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
What, the Texas GOP making everything about religion, gay people, and abortion? Shocker...
EDIT: I'm always wary of declared party platforms by the party in charge (regionally). It smells like they're getting ready for another purge of the "non-faithful".
EDIT: I'm always wary of declared party platforms by the party in charge (regionally). It smells like they're getting ready for another purge of the "non-faithful".
#4
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
It is time for Gay Republicans to go back and hide in the Log Cabin.
#5
Denbrought
Denbrought
What is this I don't even
#6
Element 117
Element 117
wait, i was bedazzled by all the insanity. Point them out please?J. There are a couple good things,
#7
JONJONAUG
They want to repeal the Patriot Act so that's something I guess. They want Union members to dictate whether or not their fees are used to support political causes and they're for full disclosure of campaign contributions. There's a couple of other things in my post that are good things, and a good deal of stuff in the full document is a good idea. It's kind of negated by the whole homosexuality is an affront against God nonsense though.
JONJONAUG
wait, i was bedazzled by all the insanity. Point them out please?[/QUOTE]J. There are a couple good things,
They want to repeal the Patriot Act so that's something I guess. They want Union members to dictate whether or not their fees are used to support political causes and they're for full disclosure of campaign contributions. There's a couple of other things in my post that are good things, and a good deal of stuff in the full document is a good idea. It's kind of negated by the whole homosexuality is an affront against God nonsense though.
#8
Baerdog
They want to repeal the Patriot Act so that's something I guess. They want Union members to dictate whether or not their fees are used to support political causes and they're for full disclosure of campaign contributions. There's a couple of other things in my post that are good things, and a good deal of stuff in the full document is a good idea. It's kind of negated by the whole homosexuality is an affront against God nonsense though.[/QUOTE]
It's like taking a crap and then looking at it and going "well there are still a few good pieces of corn in there."
Baerdog
wait, i was bedazzled by all the insanity. Point them out please?[/QUOTE]J. There are a couple good things,
They want to repeal the Patriot Act so that's something I guess. They want Union members to dictate whether or not their fees are used to support political causes and they're for full disclosure of campaign contributions. There's a couple of other things in my post that are good things, and a good deal of stuff in the full document is a good idea. It's kind of negated by the whole homosexuality is an affront against God nonsense though.[/QUOTE]
It's like taking a crap and then looking at it and going "well there are still a few good pieces of corn in there."
#9
DarkAudit
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.
DarkAudit
This... except maybe...Overall- Fuck you, Texas GOP. Fuck you in the ear.
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.
#10
The Lovely Boehner
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.[/QUOTE]
No, fuck you
The Lovely Boehner
This... except maybe...Overall- Fuck you, Texas GOP. Fuck you in the ear.
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.[/QUOTE]
No, fuck you
#11
DarkAudit
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.[/QUOTE]
No, fuck you[/QUOTE]
I rest my case. :smug:
DarkAudit
This... except maybe...Overall- Fuck you, Texas GOP. Fuck you in the ear.
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.[/QUOTE]
No, fuck you[/QUOTE]
I rest my case. :smug:
#12
Dave
Dave
Stupidity squared.
#13
Null
Null
That's pretty asinine, I'll tell you what.
#14
Krisken
Krisken
I know I tease Texas as a state and make a lot of jokes, but honestly it is just that. I don't think the whole state is like this, but it does frighten me that this kind of thing isn't seen as politically dangerous in this area. It is mind blowing to me.
So Charlie, I don't say fuck Texas. I say fuck to all those crazy bastards who think they are the second coming of Jesus and have the right to tell everyone else what to believe and try rewriting history to support their derangement.
So Charlie, I don't say fuck Texas. I say fuck to all those crazy bastards who think they are the second coming of Jesus and have the right to tell everyone else what to believe and try rewriting history to support their derangement.
#15
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
From the make of this, Shego could actually get arrested and imprisoned for something that's opposite of her sadistic tendencies.
Same goes for other homosexual forumites living in Texas, like Charlie and Gasbandit.
Same goes for other homosexual forumites living in Texas, like Charlie and Gasbandit.
#16
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
That's why I *do* say fuck Texas as a whole for not having the guts to stand up and scream THIS IS WRONG! and actually put a stop to this asshattery. Instead Texas has become a national joke and an international embarrassment.I know I tease Texas as a state and make a lot of jokes, but honestly it is just that. I don't think the whole state is like this, but it does frighten me that this kind of thing isn't seen as politically dangerous in this area. It is mind blowing to me.
So Charlie, I don't say fuck Texas. I say fuck to all those crazy bastards who think they are the second coming of Jesus and have the right to tell everyone else what to believe and try rewriting history to support their derangement.
#17
phil
phil
Arizona is the national joke these days. :humph:
Texas is an international embarrassment but I feel Walker, Texas Ranger had more to do wit that than anything.
Texas is an international embarrassment but I feel Walker, Texas Ranger had more to do wit that than anything.
#18
Denbrought
Them roundhouse kicks were mah childhood edutainment.
Denbrought
Oh come on, Walker is the only cool/positive about Texas recognized in my household, last time I checked.Arizona is the national joke these days. :humph:
Texas is an international embarrassment but I feel Walker, Texas Ranger had more to do wit that than anything.
Them roundhouse kicks were mah childhood edutainment.
#19
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
It wouldn't matter. It would all somehow disappear from the History texts anyway...That's why I *do* say fuck Texas as a whole for not having the guts to stand up and scream THIS IS WRONG! and actually put a stop to this asshattery. Instead Texas has become a national joke and an international embarrassment.
--Patrick
#20
The Lovely Boehner
I am screaming this is wrong. I don't vote for the GOP.
The Lovely Boehner
I'm not homosexual.From the make of this, Shego could actually get arrested and imprisoned for something that's opposite of her sadistic tendencies.
Same goes for other homosexual forumites living in Texas, like Charlie and Gasbandit.
That's why I *do* say fuck Texas as a whole for not having the guts to stand up and scream THIS IS WRONG! and actually put a stop to this asshattery. Instead Texas has become a national joke and an international embarrassment.[/QUOTE]I know I tease Texas as a state and make a lot of jokes, but honestly it is just that. I don't think the whole state is like this, but it does frighten me that this kind of thing isn't seen as politically dangerous in this area. It is mind blowing to me.
So Charlie, I don't say fuck Texas. I say fuck to all those crazy bastards who think they are the second coming of Jesus and have the right to tell everyone else what to believe and try rewriting history to support their derangement.
I am screaming this is wrong. I don't vote for the GOP.
#21
Iaculus
Iaculus
Soo... they want to repeal the death penalty, then? Interesting.4. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.
#22
Krisken
Hah! I bet that wasn't intentional!
Krisken
Soo... they want to repeal the death penalty, then? Interesting.[/QUOTE]4. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.
Hah! I bet that wasn't intentional!
#23
PatrThom
PatrThom
Only where it suits. Texas has a long history of experience with the practice of selective breeding.
In other news, the Texas GOP wants to make it a felony to commit a felony, thereby streamlining the whole 'repeat offender' process.
--Patrick
In other news, the Texas GOP wants to make it a felony to commit a felony, thereby streamlining the whole 'repeat offender' process.
--Patrick
#24
Hailey Knight
I'm sorry. Someone said you and Kissinger were a couple, and I guess they were trying to be insulting passive-aggressively; I thought it was the truth.
Gasbandit was the one I threw in to be the "straight guy I'm calling homosexual hahaha".
Hailey Knight
I'm not homosexual.[/QUOTE]From the make of this, Shego could actually get arrested and imprisoned for something that's opposite of her sadistic tendencies.
Same goes for other homosexual forumites living in Texas, like Charlie and Gasbandit.
I'm sorry. Someone said you and Kissinger were a couple, and I guess they were trying to be insulting passive-aggressively; I thought it was the truth.
Gasbandit was the one I threw in to be the "straight guy I'm calling homosexual hahaha".
#25
RealBigNuke
RealBigNuke
These are the guys so adamant about fighting the taliban, right?
This is half a step off of Sharia fucking law. Good god.
Also, "Judeo-Christian Nation – As America is a nation under God founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship in the religion of their choice." No, actually, with that you're affirming the constitutional right of less than 10% of the planet to worship in the religion of their choice, dickweeds.
This is half a step off of Sharia fucking law. Good god.
Also, "Judeo-Christian Nation – As America is a nation under God founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship in the religion of their choice." No, actually, with that you're affirming the constitutional right of less than 10% of the planet to worship in the religion of their choice, dickweeds.
#26
sixpackshaker
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.[/QUOTE]
No, fuck you[/QUOTE]
I rest my case. :smug:[/QUOTE]
Dude, West Virginia is giving Texas crap?
My Mind Is Officially Blown.
sixpackshaker
This... except maybe...Overall- Fuck you, Texas GOP. Fuck you in the ear.
Overall- Fuck you, Texas. Fuck you in the ear.
Yeah. That's better.[/QUOTE]
No, fuck you[/QUOTE]
I rest my case. :smug:[/QUOTE]
Dude, West Virginia is giving Texas crap?
My Mind Is Officially Blown.
#27
bhamv3
bhamv3
This is my favorite part. In theory, I strongly support science being scrutinized and its weaknesses identified. That's how we get scientific progress and advancement. But I wonder what'll happen to teachers who go around saying, "Yes, there are weaknesses in the theory of Intelligent Design, such as it not being a scientific theory at all."We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be taught as challengeable scientific theory subject to change as new data is produced, not scientific law. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.
#28
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Obviously, they'll be cashiered for "stifling scientific development and debate".This is my favorite part. In theory, I strongly support science being scrutinized and its weaknesses identified. That's how we get scientific progress and advancement. But I wonder what'll happen to teachers who go around saying, "Yes, there are weaknesses in the theory of Intelligent Design, such as it not being a scientific theory at all."We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be taught as challengeable scientific theory subject to change as new data is produced, not scientific law. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.
#29
Jonzac
Jonzac
True, but there is limited phyical support and many glaring holes in Darwin's Theories as well...and those are not questioned anymore than Creationist theories are. Evolution has neiter been conclusivly proven or disproven...but that fact is somehow never explained or taught in schools either.
Right now...no one knows, but somehow everyone knows Creationism is incorrect. I understand there is no proof...but then Darwin's viewing of an isolated pond can't really be extrapolated to the degree it has either.
Right now...no one knows, but somehow everyone knows Creationism is incorrect. I understand there is no proof...but then Darwin's viewing of an isolated pond can't really be extrapolated to the degree it has either.
#30
Denbrought
Denbrought
It's still the best we have, and what the scientific community largely agrees with, right?
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
#31
Krisken
Krisken
Not that it isn't correct, that it isn't fucking science and is religious teaching which doesn't belong in a public classroom. There is an important distinction here which gets glossed over and ignored to push a religious agenda.True, but there is limited phyical support and many glaring holes in Darwin's Theories as well...and those are not questioned anymore than Creationist theories are. Evolution has neiter been conclusivly proven or disproven...but that fact is somehow never explained or taught in schools either.
Right now...no one knows, but somehow everyone knows Creationism is incorrect. I understand there is no proof...but then Darwin's viewing of an isolated pond can't really be extrapolated to the degree it has either.
#32
LordRendar
LordRendar
It just boggels my mind on how retarded that is.If someone tried to pass this in Germany,they would have people rioting.
#33
ThatGrinningIdiot!
ThatGrinningIdiot!
Texas GOP Party platform = glorified Ku Klux Klan doctrine.
#34
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
It is not that much different from the GOP platform. This is what Fox News Nation believes.Texas GOP Party platform = glorified Ku Klux Klan doctrine.
#35
Jonzac
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.
Jonzac
I can agree with that, although Debate normally starts at the high-school level. My point is, evolution is a THEORY. Others have another THEORY, neither can be proven or disproven at this point. People generally like one and hate the other. All I'm saying is that right now...evolution is taught as a proven, ironclad TRUTH not theory and there is a HUGE difference.It's still the best we have, and what the scientific community largely agrees with, right?
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.
#36
Iaculus
Iaculus
You do realise that the theory of evolution is not exclusively based on Darwin's research, right?True, but there is limited phyical support and many glaring holes in Darwin's Theories as well...and those are not questioned anymore than Creationist theories are. Evolution has neiter been conclusivly proven or disproven...but that fact is somehow never explained or taught in schools either.
Right now...no one knows, but somehow everyone knows Creationism is incorrect. I understand there is no proof...but then Darwin's viewing of an isolated pond can't really be extrapolated to the degree it has either.
#37
Jonzac
---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------
That is its base, and while there have been other additive theories, Darwin's research still remains the basic of the theory. I personally will not refute the fact that natural selection exists, but I also have trouble agreeing to the fact that somehow I'm a direct decendent of a small furry mammal 60,000,000 years ago.
Jonzac
Really? Nice retoric...does Pleosi email you this drivel directly or do you pull it off NPR?Texas GOP Party platform = glorified Ku Klux Klan doctrine.
---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------
You do realise that the theory of evolution is not exclusively based on Darwin's research, right?[/QUOTE]True, but there is limited phyical support and many glaring holes in Darwin's Theories as well...and those are not questioned anymore than Creationist theories are. Evolution has neiter been conclusivly proven or disproven...but that fact is somehow never explained or taught in schools either.
Right now...no one knows, but somehow everyone knows Creationism is incorrect. I understand there is no proof...but then Darwin's viewing of an isolated pond can't really be extrapolated to the degree it has either.
That is its base, and while there have been other additive theories, Darwin's research still remains the basic of the theory. I personally will not refute the fact that natural selection exists, but I also have trouble agreeing to the fact that somehow I'm a direct decendent of a small furry mammal 60,000,000 years ago.
#38
Covar
Covar
I should hope so. That's a platform not a law.It just boggels my mind on how retarded that is.If someone tried to pass this in Germany,they would have people rioting.
#39
Iaculus
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
- Scientific theory does not equal layman's theory. Common mistake. A scientific theory is defined as being supported by sufficient evidence that it can be presumed to present a reasonable picture of how the world works. It is only scientific theories which are supposed to be taught in science classes, which is why the burden of proof currently rests on intelligent design, rather than the burden of disproof resting on everyone else.
- Evolution consists of uncounted billions of different, tiny adaptations according to what was most suitable for the environment at the time. That is where organic complexity and diversity develops from. Large, complex organisms did not spring into being from a single roll of the dice, and so your argument only points out that it is chance that we turned out how we did, not that we did at all. Even then, the dice for each roll were weighted by survival of the fittest (which, I should reiterate, means 'survival of those most fit for their environment', not 'survival of the best').
- We are not descended from chimpanzees and the like. Rather, evolution postulates that we had a common ancestor, and evolved differently according to our environments.
Iaculus
I can agree with that, although Debate normally starts at the high-school level. My point is, evolution is a THEORY. Others have another THEORY, neither can be proven or disproven at this point. People generally like one and hate the other. All I'm saying is that right now...evolution is taught as a proven, ironclad TRUTH not theory and there is a HUGE difference.It's still the best we have, and what the scientific community largely agrees with, right?
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
- Scientific theory does not equal layman's theory. Common mistake. A scientific theory is defined as being supported by sufficient evidence that it can be presumed to present a reasonable picture of how the world works. It is only scientific theories which are supposed to be taught in science classes, which is why the burden of proof currently rests on intelligent design, rather than the burden of disproof resting on everyone else.
- Evolution consists of uncounted billions of different, tiny adaptations according to what was most suitable for the environment at the time. That is where organic complexity and diversity develops from. Large, complex organisms did not spring into being from a single roll of the dice, and so your argument only points out that it is chance that we turned out how we did, not that we did at all. Even then, the dice for each roll were weighted by survival of the fittest (which, I should reiterate, means 'survival of those most fit for their environment', not 'survival of the best').
- We are not descended from chimpanzees and the like. Rather, evolution postulates that we had a common ancestor, and evolved differently according to our environments.
#40
Krisken
Krisken
I'm sorry. "I can't fathom the leading theory so the cause must be magic" isn't a valid hypothesis.
#41
Denbrought
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
Shit son, it doesn't get better than "a theory." I guess we could restrict science material to only be about laws, but then we'd run really out of simple enough curriculum really fast.
And now, to lighten up the conversation, coooomiiiiics
Denbrought
I can agree with that, although Debate normally starts at the high-school level. My point is, evolution is a THEORY. Others have another THEORY, neither can be proven or disproven at this point. People generally like one and hate the other. All I'm saying is that right now...evolution is taught as a proven, ironclad TRUTH not theory and there is a HUGE difference.It's still the best we have, and what the scientific community largely agrees with, right?
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
Shit son, it doesn't get better than "a theory." I guess we could restrict science material to only be about laws, but then we'd run really out of simple enough curriculum really fast.
And now, to lighten up the conversation, coooomiiiiics
#42
Jonzac
I can agree with that, although Debate normally starts at the high-school level. My point is, evolution is a THEORY. Others have another THEORY, neither can be proven or
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
- Scientific theory does not equal layman's theory. Common mistake. A scientific theory is defined as being supported by sufficient evidence that it can be presumed to present a reasonable picture of how the world works.
- Evolution consists of uncounted billions of different, tiny adaptations according to what was most suitable for the environment at the time. That is where organic complexity and diversity develops from. Large, complex organisms did not spring into being from a single roll of the dice, and so your argument only points out that it is chance that we turned out how we did, not that we did at all. Even then, the dice for each roll were weighted by survival of the fittest (which, I should reiterate, means 'survival of those most fit for their environment', not 'survival of the best').
- We are not descended from chimpanzees and the like. Rather, evolution postulates that we had a common ancestor, and evolved differently according to our environments.[/QUOTE]
So somehow, the mere chance of all the necessary 1:1,000,000 situations that needed to happen over and over again is somehow more palatable that labeling the process as "God" because you can't understand it? Its somehow easier to believe the vanishing small series of chances over ANYTHING else...heck, why not imagine the chance that aliens crashlanded.
I'm not here saying I can prove or even believe in either way to describe the history of life, which is currently undescribable...however, I'm NOT willing to disregard either one...like many of you are.
Jonzac
[/COLOR]It's still the best we have, and what the scientific community largely agrees with, right?
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
I can agree with that, although Debate normally starts at the high-school level. My point is, evolution is a THEORY. Others have another THEORY, neither can be proven or
disproven
at this point. People generally like one and hate the other. All I'm saying is that right now...evolution is taught as a proven, ironclad TRUTH not theory and there is a HUGE difference. AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich
enviroment
and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
- Scientific theory does not equal layman's theory. Common mistake. A scientific theory is defined as being supported by sufficient evidence that it can be presumed to present a reasonable picture of how the world works.
- Evolution consists of uncounted billions of different, tiny adaptations according to what was most suitable for the environment at the time. That is where organic complexity and diversity develops from. Large, complex organisms did not spring into being from a single roll of the dice, and so your argument only points out that it is chance that we turned out how we did, not that we did at all. Even then, the dice for each roll were weighted by survival of the fittest (which, I should reiterate, means 'survival of those most fit for their environment', not 'survival of the best').
- We are not descended from chimpanzees and the like. Rather, evolution postulates that we had a common ancestor, and evolved differently according to our environments.[/QUOTE]
So somehow, the mere chance of all the necessary 1:1,000,000 situations that needed to happen over and over again is somehow more palatable that labeling the process as "God" because you can't understand it? Its somehow easier to believe the vanishing small series of chances over ANYTHING else...heck, why not imagine the chance that aliens crashlanded.
I'm not here saying I can prove or even believe in either way to describe the history of life, which is currently undescribable...however, I'm NOT willing to disregard either one...like many of you are.
#43
ThatGrinningIdiot!
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
There is no proof, largely because it would be impossible to survey organisms over the course of millions of years. We can see traces of evolution from micro-organisms like bacteria, though I'll refrain from saying more, Chaz has the degree here, and I don't discount that I could talking outta my ass.
ThatGrinningIdiot!
I can agree with that, although Debate normally starts at the high-school level. My point is, evolution is a THEORY. Others have another THEORY, neither can be proven or disproven at this point. People generally like one and hate the other. All I'm saying is that right now...evolution is taught as a proven, ironclad TRUTH not theory and there is a HUGE difference.It's still the best we have, and what the scientific community largely agrees with, right?
Also, isn't debating ideas supposed to be left for college-level education? My understanding was that up to there you're supposed to learn from the wiser.
AS forFUCKING science...what proof that the DNA of a single cell or even less an amino acid generated in a methane rich enviroment and large static electricity somehow mutates into the large complex organisms that roam the earth today? Or perhaps since we are evolutionary down the chain from chimps and gorilla and we've found the "missing links" of Lucy and the new fossils of Lucy's 400,000 year older fossils that the other primates haven't completely died out...which is a central tenet of evolution.
So while I won't claim to have all the DAMN answers, your rant about religous and science...your vehement denial of creationism for evolution just shows you treat it with the same scared blinders that "bat-crazy" creationist use against evolution.[/QUOTE]
There is no proof, largely because it would be impossible to survey organisms over the course of millions of years. We can see traces of evolution from micro-organisms like bacteria, though I'll refrain from saying more, Chaz has the degree here, and I don't discount that I could talking outta my ass.
#44
Krisken
Krisken
Yeah, that's why what you are proposing is called BELIEF and the other is called SCIENCE. We're still willing to disregard the theory of evolution if proof is presented to support a better theory.
#45
Iaculus
Evolution is not destiny, merely a slight weighting of many, many options.
Iaculus
Again, you are assuming that it was only this one outcome, out of all the countless billions, that would prove evolution. This is incorrect. Evolution would still work even if we were six-eyed blob-monsters living on the bottom of the ocean, provided there was sufficient evidence that we had adapted into that form (or one similar to it) due to natural selection triggered by environmental pressures.So somehow, the mere chance of all the necessary 1:1,000,000 situations that needed to happen over and over again is somehow more palatable that labeling the process as "God" because you can't understand it? Its somehow easier to believe the vanishing small series of chances over ANYTHING else...heck, why not imagine the chance that aliens crashlanded.
I'm not here saying I can prove or even believe in either way to describe the history of life, which is currently undescribable...however, I'm NOT willing to disregard either one...like many of you are.
Evolution is not destiny, merely a slight weighting of many, many options.
#46
bhamv3
bhamv3
Is there a "summon Zarvox" button around here? I think of him every time there's an evolution discussion.
#47
Covar
This conversation is why I love being a Catholic. Evolution? Fine by us.
Covar
rofl.And now, to lighten up the conversation, coooomiiiiics
This conversation is why I love being a Catholic. Evolution? Fine by us.
#48
Fun Size
Fun Size
Yeah. I was just trying to remember the address of his site.
#49
bhamv3
bhamv3
I found it on his HF profile: EvoEdu – Evolution EducationYeah. I was just trying to remember the address of his site.
#50
LordRendar
But isnt a platform the first step to trying to pass it as laws someday in the future?
Please correct me if im wrong,since im not that well versed with American Laws/Politics.
LordRendar
I should hope so. That's a platform not a law.[/QUOTE]It just boggels my mind on how retarded that is.If someone tried to pass this in Germany,they would have people rioting.
But isnt a platform the first step to trying to pass it as laws someday in the future?
Please correct me if im wrong,since im not that well versed with American Laws/Politics.
#51
Covar
But isnt a platform the first step to trying to pass it as laws someday in the future?
Please correct me if im wrong,since im not that well versed with American Laws/Politics.[/QUOTE]
A parties political platform, is the party saying these are the ideas and stances on issues that we have and feel are important to us. The parties political views. If you were to go and write out your position and stance on everything in politics that would be your platform.
Covar
I should hope so. That's a platform not a law.[/QUOTE]It just boggels my mind on how retarded that is.If someone tried to pass this in Germany,they would have people rioting.
But isnt a platform the first step to trying to pass it as laws someday in the future?
Please correct me if im wrong,since im not that well versed with American Laws/Politics.[/QUOTE]
A parties political platform, is the party saying these are the ideas and stances on issues that we have and feel are important to us. The parties political views. If you were to go and write out your position and stance on everything in politics that would be your platform.
#52
LordRendar
Here in Germany we have quite a lot of Political Parties:
Christian Democrats (your Conservatives)
Socialsists (SPD)
Liberals (FDP)
Eco-friendly (Grünen)
Leftists (Linke)
Rightwing (Braunen)
Depending on how many votes they get,they will have a corresponding number of seats in the Bundestag (Senate).Each party brings their platforms with them once they enter Government and try to shape the laws accordingly.Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
LordRendar
But isnt their view and stance on things the main factor on what laws they are gonna pass/try to pass? From what I know (and that aint much) the GOP has people in Senate/Congress.A parties political platform, is the party saying these are the ideas and stances on issues that we have and feel are important to us. The parties political views. If you were to go and write out your position and stance on everything in politics that would be your platform.
Here in Germany we have quite a lot of Political Parties:
Christian Democrats (your Conservatives)
Socialsists (SPD)
Liberals (FDP)
Eco-friendly (Grünen)
Leftists (Linke)
Rightwing (Braunen)
Depending on how many votes they get,they will have a corresponding number of seats in the Bundestag (Senate).Each party brings their platforms with them once they enter Government and try to shape the laws accordingly.Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
#53
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
Two parties, they never dare to debate any issues whatsoever, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars instead making the other side look evil. The only thing they can agree on is that voting for any third party is throwing your vote away and destroying the country. Once one gets in power, it proceeds to do nothing and blame the party that isn't in power.Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
#54
Denbrought
Denbrought
Winner takes all, LordRendar.
#55
LordRendar
For a country priding itself to be the most progressive that seems very unproductive to me.
I mean,the current Partys in power in my country (Conservative/Liberals,we can have alliances between parties to get the majority of seats in the bundestag and so controll most of the government) isnt the best,and Lord knows,they screwed us over hard at times, but they do try to do what is right in their eyes/opinon,which thanks to democracy is the opinion of the majority of people in the country. The other parties bicker,complain and oppose,but not to try to hinder the others,but to try to work it so that the minorities dont get shaftet.And at the end of the day,its the German people that matter.Not the respective egos of the Party leaders.
LordRendar
Two parties, they never dare to debate any issues whatsoever, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars instead making the other side look evil. The only thing they can agree on is that voting for any third party is throwing your vote away and destroying the country. Once one gets in power, it proceeds to do nothing and blame the party that isn't in power.[/QUOTE]Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
For a country priding itself to be the most progressive that seems very unproductive to me.
I mean,the current Partys in power in my country (Conservative/Liberals,we can have alliances between parties to get the majority of seats in the bundestag and so controll most of the government) isnt the best,and Lord knows,they screwed us over hard at times, but they do try to do what is right in their eyes/opinon,which thanks to democracy is the opinion of the majority of people in the country. The other parties bicker,complain and oppose,but not to try to hinder the others,but to try to work it so that the minorities dont get shaftet.And at the end of the day,its the German people that matter.Not the respective egos of the Party leaders.
#56
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
Is the United States the most progressive country? really? Last I checked, it's us and the third-world rallying behind the Death Penalty still. Isn't our "radical left wing" hilariously conservative in all of Europe?
#57
Covar
You've just won the thread.
Covar
Two parties, they never dare to debate any issues whatsoever, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars instead making the other side look evil. The only thing they can agree on is that voting for any third party is throwing your vote away and destroying the country. Once one gets in power, it proceeds to do nothing and blame the party that isn't in power.[/QUOTE]Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
You've just won the thread.
#58
LordRendar
It's that bad that even we people on the other side of the the ocean use Fox Watchers as a joke.
LordRendar
I didnt say it was.But they sure as hell like to think so.We'll your Fox News demographic at least.Is the United States the most progressive country? really? Last I checked, it's us and the third-world rallying behind the Death Penalty still. Isn't our "radical left wing" hilariously conservative in all of Europe?
It's that bad that even we people on the other side of the the ocean use Fox Watchers as a joke.
#59
AshburnerX
For a country priding itself to be the most progressive that seems very unproductive to me.
I mean,the current Partys in power in my country (Conservative/Liberals,we can have alliances between parties to get the majority of seats in the bundestag and so controll most of the government) isnt the best,and Lord knows,they screwed us over hard at times, but they do try to do what is right in their eyes/opinon,which thanks to democracy is the opinion of the majority of people in the country. The other parties bicker,complain and oppose,but not to try to hinder the others,but to try to work it so that the minorities dont get shaftet.And at the end of the day,its the German people that matter.Not the respective egos of the Party leaders.[/QUOTE]
We know it's horrible, and we agree it is, but the problem is that the two parties in power seem to agree on the fact that there shouldn't be any successful third parties ever since Roosevelt won under the Elk Party. They are willing to go to any lengths to prevent 3rd parties from succeeding. What's more, each of the two bigger parties has literally hundreds of billions of dollars at it's disposal, meaning it is impossible to compete with them in advertising/propaganda. Campaign reforms get shot down every time they are proposed in Congress, because why would they want anybody else to have a shot?
The US system is fatally and irredeemably flawed, but short of a revolution, it's never going to be changed. Our only REAL hope is that the Conservative Party (The Republicans) keeps screwing up to the point that Conservatives go over to ether the Tea Party or Libertarian party, but that's not exactly a better solution. It's just the same people going to new party, like the Southern Democrat Shift during the Civil Rights Movement.
AshburnerX
Two parties, they never dare to debate any issues whatsoever, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars instead making the other side look evil. The only thing they can agree on is that voting for any third party is throwing your vote away and destroying the country. Once one gets in power, it proceeds to do nothing and blame the party that isn't in power.[/QUOTE]Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
For a country priding itself to be the most progressive that seems very unproductive to me.
I mean,the current Partys in power in my country (Conservative/Liberals,we can have alliances between parties to get the majority of seats in the bundestag and so controll most of the government) isnt the best,and Lord knows,they screwed us over hard at times, but they do try to do what is right in their eyes/opinon,which thanks to democracy is the opinion of the majority of people in the country. The other parties bicker,complain and oppose,but not to try to hinder the others,but to try to work it so that the minorities dont get shaftet.And at the end of the day,its the German people that matter.Not the respective egos of the Party leaders.[/QUOTE]
We know it's horrible, and we agree it is, but the problem is that the two parties in power seem to agree on the fact that there shouldn't be any successful third parties ever since Roosevelt won under the Elk Party. They are willing to go to any lengths to prevent 3rd parties from succeeding. What's more, each of the two bigger parties has literally hundreds of billions of dollars at it's disposal, meaning it is impossible to compete with them in advertising/propaganda. Campaign reforms get shot down every time they are proposed in Congress, because why would they want anybody else to have a shot?
The US system is fatally and irredeemably flawed, but short of a revolution, it's never going to be changed. Our only REAL hope is that the Conservative Party (The Republicans) keeps screwing up to the point that Conservatives go over to ether the Tea Party or Libertarian party, but that's not exactly a better solution. It's just the same people going to new party, like the Southern Democrat Shift during the Civil Rights Movement.
#60
Covar
Covar
Any third party will always consist of people shifting from one of the two parties into the new one. You can't magically create voters.
#61
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Yes, but what usually happens is that people from the party that is splitting usually go to more than one party. Right now, they are all hemorrhaging to the Tea Party because it's actually getting press.Any third party will always consist of people shifting from one of the two parties into the new one. You can't magically create voters.
#62
Hailey Knight
I'm really confused, because I never made that post. :/ That was LordRendar.
Hailey Knight
Two parties, they never dare to debate any issues whatsoever, and spend hundreds of millions of dollars instead making the other side look evil. The only thing they can agree on is that voting for any third party is throwing your vote away and destroying the country. Once one gets in power, it proceeds to do nothing and blame the party that isn't in power.[/QUOTE]Can you tell me what the difference is with the American system is?If you dont mind.
I'm really confused, because I never made that post. :/ That was LordRendar.
#63
zero
---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------
zero
Oh please, that's a fallacy and you know it... What you just said is the equivalent of looking at last week's lottery result and then claim it must be God's doing, since the odds of that exact result are infinitesimal.So somehow, the mere chance of all the necessary 1:1,000,000 situations that needed to happen over and over again is somehow more palatable that labeling the process as "God" because you can't understand it?
---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------
More than fine. Don't forget it was a Catholic priest who laid down the foundations of modern genetic science.This conversation is why I love being a Catholic. Evolution? Fine by us.
#64
Norris
1) "Secular" Intelligent Design Hypothesis: That some form of intelligent originator crafted and designed, possibly via guided selection.
2) "Liberal" Creationism: The Judeo Christian God created everything, through means unknown that may resemble unguided means.
3) "Young Earth" or "Biblicaly Literal" Creationism: The Christian God created everything exactly in the form it is today six to ten thousand years ago, flooded the world a while back, and all living beings are descended from those on the Ark.
The problem with the first two is that they don't pass scientific muster because they rely on a SUPERnatural explanation that can not be observed in any way, shape, or form. The problem with the third is that it relies on the same explanation while at the same time claiming that almost every last thing we know about all branches of science (astronomy, physics, geology, et al) would have to be so nackered as to be useless.
Is it a valid belief system, something one feels in their heart to be true regardless of evidence? Of course. Is it science? Not by a long shot.
Norris
The problem is that while evolutionary theory is based on a century and a half's worth of scientific observation and discovery, creationism is based on some immediately contradictory accounts in an ancient book that we can't really peg an author down for. Besides, which brand of creation are we talking about:I'm not here saying I can prove or even believe in either way to describe the history of life, which is currently undescribable...however, I'm NOT willing to disregard either one...like many of you are.
1) "Secular" Intelligent Design Hypothesis: That some form of intelligent originator crafted and designed, possibly via guided selection.
2) "Liberal" Creationism: The Judeo Christian God created everything, through means unknown that may resemble unguided means.
3) "Young Earth" or "Biblicaly Literal" Creationism: The Christian God created everything exactly in the form it is today six to ten thousand years ago, flooded the world a while back, and all living beings are descended from those on the Ark.
The problem with the first two is that they don't pass scientific muster because they rely on a SUPERnatural explanation that can not be observed in any way, shape, or form. The problem with the third is that it relies on the same explanation while at the same time claiming that almost every last thing we know about all branches of science (astronomy, physics, geology, et al) would have to be so nackered as to be useless.
Is it a valid belief system, something one feels in their heart to be true regardless of evidence? Of course. Is it science? Not by a long shot.
#65
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
The first world to exist was Muspell, a place of light and heat whose flames are so hot that those who are not native to that land cannot endure it.
Surt sits at Muspell's border, guarding the land with a flaming sword. At the end of the world he will vanquish all the gods and burn the whole world with fire.
Beyond Muspell lay the great and yawning void named Ginnungagap, and beyond Ginnungagap lay the dark, cold realm of Niflheim.
Ice, frost, wind, rain and heavy cold emanated from Niflheim, meeting in Ginnungagap the soft air, heat, light, and soft air from Muspell.
Where heat and cold met appeared thawing drops, and this running fluid grew into a giant frost ogre named Ymir.
Ymir slept, falling into a sweat. Under his left arm there grew a man and a woman. And one of his legs begot a son with the other. This was the beginning of the frost ogres.
Thawing frost then became a cow called Audhumla. Four rivers of milk ran from her teats, and she fed Ymir.
The cow licked salty ice blocks. After one day of licking, she freed a man's hair from the ice. After two days, his head appeared. On the third day the whole man was there. His name was Buri, and he was tall, strong, and handsome.
Buri begot a son named Bor, and Bor married Bestla, the daughter of a giant.
Bor and Bestla had three sons: Odin was the first, Vili the second, and Vé the third.
It is believed that Odin, in association with his brothers, is the ruler of heaven and earth. He is the greatest and most famous of all men.
Odin, Vili, and Vé killed the giant Ymir.
When Ymir fell, there issued from his wounds such a flood of blood, that all the frost ogres were drowned, except for the giant Bergelmir who escaped with his wife by climbing onto a lur [a hollowed-out tree trunk that could serve either as a boat or a coffin]. From them spring the families of frost ogres.
The sons of Bor then carried Ymir to the middle of Ginnungagap and made the world from him. From his blood they made the sea and the lakes; from his flesh the earth; from his hair the trees; and from his bones the mountains. They made rocks and pebbles from his teeth and jaws and those bones that were broken.
Maggots appeared in Ymir's flesh and came to life. By the decree of the gods they acquired human understanding and the appearance of men, although they lived in the earth and in rocks.
From Ymir's skull the sons of Bor made the sky and set it over the earth with its four sides. Under each corner they put a dwarf, whose names are East, West, North, and South.
The sons of Bor flung Ymir's brains into the air, and they became the clouds.
Then they took the sparks and burning embers that were flying about after they had been blown out of Muspell, and placed them in the midst of Ginnungagap to give light to heaven above and earth beneath. To the stars they gave appointed places and paths.
The earth was surrounded by a deep sea. The sons of Bor gave lands near the sea to the families of giants for their settlements.
To protect themselves from the hostile giants, the sons of Bor built for themselves an inland stonghold, using Ymir's eyebrows. This stonghold they named Midgard.
While walking along the sea shore the sons of Bor found two trees, and from them they created a man and a woman.
Odin gave the man and the woman spirit and life. Vili gave them understanding and the power of movement. Vé gave them clothing and names. The man was named Ask [Ash] and the woman Embla [Elm?]. From Ask and Embla have sprung the races of men who lived in Midgard.
In the middle of the world the sons of Bor built for themselves a stronghold named Asgard, called Troy by later generations. The gods and their kindred lived in Asgard, and many memorable events have happened there.
In Asgard was a great hall named Hlidskjálf. Odin sat there on a high seat. From there he could look out over the whole world and see what everyone was doing. He understood everything that he saw.
Odin married Frigg, the daughter of Fjörgvin. From this family has come all the kindred that inhabited ancient Asgard and those kingdoms that belonged to it. Members of this family are called the Æsir, and they are all divinities. This must be the reason why Odin is called All-Father. He is the father of all the gods and men and of everything that he and his power created.
The earth was Odin's daughter and his wife as well. By her he had his first son, Thor. Might and strength were Thor's characteristics. By these he dominates every living creature.
As all informed people know, the gods built a bridge from earth to heaven called Bifröst. Some call it the rainbow. It has three colors and is very strong, made with more skill and cunning than other structures. But strong as it is, it will break when the sons of Muspell ride out over it. The gods are not to blame that this structure will then break. Bifröst is a good bridge, but there is nothing in this world that can be relied on when the sons of Muspell are on the warpath.
The chief sanctuary of the gods is by the ash tree Yggdrasil. There they hold their daily court. Yggdrasil is the best and greatest of all trees. Its branches spread out over the whole world and reach up over heaven.
Surt sits at Muspell's border, guarding the land with a flaming sword. At the end of the world he will vanquish all the gods and burn the whole world with fire.
Beyond Muspell lay the great and yawning void named Ginnungagap, and beyond Ginnungagap lay the dark, cold realm of Niflheim.
Ice, frost, wind, rain and heavy cold emanated from Niflheim, meeting in Ginnungagap the soft air, heat, light, and soft air from Muspell.
Where heat and cold met appeared thawing drops, and this running fluid grew into a giant frost ogre named Ymir.
Ymir slept, falling into a sweat. Under his left arm there grew a man and a woman. And one of his legs begot a son with the other. This was the beginning of the frost ogres.
Thawing frost then became a cow called Audhumla. Four rivers of milk ran from her teats, and she fed Ymir.
The cow licked salty ice blocks. After one day of licking, she freed a man's hair from the ice. After two days, his head appeared. On the third day the whole man was there. His name was Buri, and he was tall, strong, and handsome.
Buri begot a son named Bor, and Bor married Bestla, the daughter of a giant.
Bor and Bestla had three sons: Odin was the first, Vili the second, and Vé the third.
It is believed that Odin, in association with his brothers, is the ruler of heaven and earth. He is the greatest and most famous of all men.
Odin, Vili, and Vé killed the giant Ymir.
When Ymir fell, there issued from his wounds such a flood of blood, that all the frost ogres were drowned, except for the giant Bergelmir who escaped with his wife by climbing onto a lur [a hollowed-out tree trunk that could serve either as a boat or a coffin]. From them spring the families of frost ogres.
The sons of Bor then carried Ymir to the middle of Ginnungagap and made the world from him. From his blood they made the sea and the lakes; from his flesh the earth; from his hair the trees; and from his bones the mountains. They made rocks and pebbles from his teeth and jaws and those bones that were broken.
Maggots appeared in Ymir's flesh and came to life. By the decree of the gods they acquired human understanding and the appearance of men, although they lived in the earth and in rocks.
From Ymir's skull the sons of Bor made the sky and set it over the earth with its four sides. Under each corner they put a dwarf, whose names are East, West, North, and South.
The sons of Bor flung Ymir's brains into the air, and they became the clouds.
Then they took the sparks and burning embers that were flying about after they had been blown out of Muspell, and placed them in the midst of Ginnungagap to give light to heaven above and earth beneath. To the stars they gave appointed places and paths.
The earth was surrounded by a deep sea. The sons of Bor gave lands near the sea to the families of giants for their settlements.
To protect themselves from the hostile giants, the sons of Bor built for themselves an inland stonghold, using Ymir's eyebrows. This stonghold they named Midgard.
While walking along the sea shore the sons of Bor found two trees, and from them they created a man and a woman.
Odin gave the man and the woman spirit and life. Vili gave them understanding and the power of movement. Vé gave them clothing and names. The man was named Ask [Ash] and the woman Embla [Elm?]. From Ask and Embla have sprung the races of men who lived in Midgard.
In the middle of the world the sons of Bor built for themselves a stronghold named Asgard, called Troy by later generations. The gods and their kindred lived in Asgard, and many memorable events have happened there.
In Asgard was a great hall named Hlidskjálf. Odin sat there on a high seat. From there he could look out over the whole world and see what everyone was doing. He understood everything that he saw.
Odin married Frigg, the daughter of Fjörgvin. From this family has come all the kindred that inhabited ancient Asgard and those kingdoms that belonged to it. Members of this family are called the Æsir, and they are all divinities. This must be the reason why Odin is called All-Father. He is the father of all the gods and men and of everything that he and his power created.
The earth was Odin's daughter and his wife as well. By her he had his first son, Thor. Might and strength were Thor's characteristics. By these he dominates every living creature.
As all informed people know, the gods built a bridge from earth to heaven called Bifröst. Some call it the rainbow. It has three colors and is very strong, made with more skill and cunning than other structures. But strong as it is, it will break when the sons of Muspell ride out over it. The gods are not to blame that this structure will then break. Bifröst is a good bridge, but there is nothing in this world that can be relied on when the sons of Muspell are on the warpath.
The chief sanctuary of the gods is by the ash tree Yggdrasil. There they hold their daily court. Yggdrasil is the best and greatest of all trees. Its branches spread out over the whole world and reach up over heaven.
#66
Norris
Norris
The Norse Creationist doctrine is the one I would put my money on being true.
Because it is so bad ass. Some immortal, super powered vikings murdered a giant and made his corpse into the universe. That's fucking metal.
Because it is so bad ass. Some immortal, super powered vikings murdered a giant and made his corpse into the universe. That's fucking metal.
#67
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
It's kind of hard to beat the Japanese creation myth in the Kojiki, which is actually NSFW.
Before the heavens and the earth came into existence, all was a chaos, unimaginably limitless and without definite shape or form. Eon followed eon: then, lo! out of this boundless, shapeless mass something light and transparent rose up and formed the heaven. This was the Plain of High Heaven, in which materialized a deity called Ame-no-Minaka-Nushi-no-Mikoto (the Deity-of-the-August-Center-of-Heaven). Next the heavens gave birth to a deity named Takami-Musubi-no-Mikoto (the High-August-Producing-Wondrous-Deity), followed by a third called Kammi-Musubi-no-Mikoto (the Divine-Producing-Wondrous-Deity). These three divine beings are called the Three Creating Deities.
In the meantime what was heavy and opaque in the void gradually precipitated and became the earth, but it had taken an immeasurably long time before it condensed sufficiently to form solid ground. In its earliest stages, for millions and millions of years, the earth may be said to have resembled oil floating, medusa-like, upon the face of the waters. Suddenly like the sprouting up of a reed, a pair of immortals were born from its bosom. These were the Deity Umashi-Ashi-Kahibi-Hikoji-no-Mikoto (the Pleasant-Reed-Shoot-Prince-Elder-Deity) and the Deity Ame-no-Tokotachi-no-Mikoto (The Heavenly-Eternally-Standing-Deity). . . .
Many gods were thus born in succession, and so they increased in number, but as long as the world remained in a chaotic state, there was nothing for them to do. Whereupon, all the Heavenly deities summoned the two divine beings, Izanagi and Izanami, and bade them descend to the nebulous place, and by helping each other, to consolidate it into terra firma. "We bestow on you," they said, "this precious treasure, with which to rule the land, the creation of which we command you to perform." So saying they handed them a spear called Ama-no-Nuboko, embellished with costly gems. The divine couple received respectfully and ceremoniously the sacred weapon and then withdrew from the presence of the Deities, ready to perform their august commission. Proceeding forthwith to the Floating Bridge of Heaven, which lay between the heaven and the earth, they stood awhile to gaze on that which lay below. What they beheld was a world not yet condensed, but looking like a sea of filmy fog floating to and fro in the air, exhaling the while an inexpressibly fragrant odor. They were, at first, perplexed just how and where to start, but at length Izanagi suggested to his companion that they should try the effect of stirring up the brine with their spear. So saying he pushed down the jeweled shaft and found that it touched something. Then drawing it up, he examined it and observed that the great drops which fell from it almost immediately coagulated into an island, which is, to this day, the Island of Onokoro. Delighted at the result, the two deities descended forthwith from the Floating Bridge to reach the miraculously created island. In this island they thenceforth dwelt and made it the basis of their subsequent task of creating a country. Then wishing to become espoused, they erected in the center oPound the island a pillar, the Heavenly August Pillar, and built around it a great palace called the Hall of Eight Fathoms. Thereupon the male Deity turning to the left and the female Deity to the right, each went round the pillar in opposite directions. When they again met each other on the further side of the pillar, Izanami, the female Deity, speaking first, exclaimed: "How delightful it is to meet so handsome a youth!" To which Izanagi, the male Deity, replied: "How delightful I am to have fallen in with such a lovely maiden!" After having spoken thus, the male Deity said that it was not in order that woman should anticipate man in a greeting. Nevertheless, they fell into connubial relationship, having been instructed by two wagtails which flew to the spot. Presently the Goddess bore her divine consort a son, but the baby was weak and boneless as a leech. Disgusted with it, they abandoned it on the waters, putting it in a boat made of reeds. Their second offspring was as disappointing as the first. The two Deities, now sorely disappointed at their failure and full of misgivings, ascended to Heaven to inquire of the Heavenly Deities the causes of their misfortunes. The latter performed the ceremony of divining and said to them: "It is the woman's fault. In turning round the Pillar, it was not right and proper that the female Deity should in speaking have taken precedence of the male. That is the reason." The two Deities saw the truth of this divine suggestion, and made up their minds to rectify the error. So, returning to the earth again, they went once more around the Heavenly Pillar. This time Izanagi spoke first saying: "How delightful to meet so beautiful a maiden!" "How happy I am," responded Izanami, "that I should meet such a handsom youth!" This process was more appropriate and in accordance with the law of nature. After this, all the children born to them left nothing to be desired. First, the island of Awaji was born, next, Shikoku, then, the island of Oki, followed by Kyushu; after that, the island Tsushima came into being, and lastly, Honshu, the main island of Japan. The name of Oyashi- ma-kuni (the Country of the Eight Great Islands) was given to these eight islands. After this, the two Deities became the parents of numerous smaller islands destined to surround the larger ones.
In the meantime what was heavy and opaque in the void gradually precipitated and became the earth, but it had taken an immeasurably long time before it condensed sufficiently to form solid ground. In its earliest stages, for millions and millions of years, the earth may be said to have resembled oil floating, medusa-like, upon the face of the waters. Suddenly like the sprouting up of a reed, a pair of immortals were born from its bosom. These were the Deity Umashi-Ashi-Kahibi-Hikoji-no-Mikoto (the Pleasant-Reed-Shoot-Prince-Elder-Deity) and the Deity Ame-no-Tokotachi-no-Mikoto (The Heavenly-Eternally-Standing-Deity). . . .
Many gods were thus born in succession, and so they increased in number, but as long as the world remained in a chaotic state, there was nothing for them to do. Whereupon, all the Heavenly deities summoned the two divine beings, Izanagi and Izanami, and bade them descend to the nebulous place, and by helping each other, to consolidate it into terra firma. "We bestow on you," they said, "this precious treasure, with which to rule the land, the creation of which we command you to perform." So saying they handed them a spear called Ama-no-Nuboko, embellished with costly gems. The divine couple received respectfully and ceremoniously the sacred weapon and then withdrew from the presence of the Deities, ready to perform their august commission. Proceeding forthwith to the Floating Bridge of Heaven, which lay between the heaven and the earth, they stood awhile to gaze on that which lay below. What they beheld was a world not yet condensed, but looking like a sea of filmy fog floating to and fro in the air, exhaling the while an inexpressibly fragrant odor. They were, at first, perplexed just how and where to start, but at length Izanagi suggested to his companion that they should try the effect of stirring up the brine with their spear. So saying he pushed down the jeweled shaft and found that it touched something. Then drawing it up, he examined it and observed that the great drops which fell from it almost immediately coagulated into an island, which is, to this day, the Island of Onokoro. Delighted at the result, the two deities descended forthwith from the Floating Bridge to reach the miraculously created island. In this island they thenceforth dwelt and made it the basis of their subsequent task of creating a country. Then wishing to become espoused, they erected in the center oPound the island a pillar, the Heavenly August Pillar, and built around it a great palace called the Hall of Eight Fathoms. Thereupon the male Deity turning to the left and the female Deity to the right, each went round the pillar in opposite directions. When they again met each other on the further side of the pillar, Izanami, the female Deity, speaking first, exclaimed: "How delightful it is to meet so handsome a youth!" To which Izanagi, the male Deity, replied: "How delightful I am to have fallen in with such a lovely maiden!" After having spoken thus, the male Deity said that it was not in order that woman should anticipate man in a greeting. Nevertheless, they fell into connubial relationship, having been instructed by two wagtails which flew to the spot. Presently the Goddess bore her divine consort a son, but the baby was weak and boneless as a leech. Disgusted with it, they abandoned it on the waters, putting it in a boat made of reeds. Their second offspring was as disappointing as the first. The two Deities, now sorely disappointed at their failure and full of misgivings, ascended to Heaven to inquire of the Heavenly Deities the causes of their misfortunes. The latter performed the ceremony of divining and said to them: "It is the woman's fault. In turning round the Pillar, it was not right and proper that the female Deity should in speaking have taken precedence of the male. That is the reason." The two Deities saw the truth of this divine suggestion, and made up their minds to rectify the error. So, returning to the earth again, they went once more around the Heavenly Pillar. This time Izanagi spoke first saying: "How delightful to meet so beautiful a maiden!" "How happy I am," responded Izanami, "that I should meet such a handsom youth!" This process was more appropriate and in accordance with the law of nature. After this, all the children born to them left nothing to be desired. First, the island of Awaji was born, next, Shikoku, then, the island of Oki, followed by Kyushu; after that, the island Tsushima came into being, and lastly, Honshu, the main island of Japan. The name of Oyashi- ma-kuni (the Country of the Eight Great Islands) was given to these eight islands. After this, the two Deities became the parents of numerous smaller islands destined to surround the larger ones.
#68
Necronic
Necronic
The whole evolution thing can be answered quite easily by saying that it can be an answer to the question of how and not the question of why. I <3 South Park.
Anywho....
To those that think that Texas is a backwards state because of this, you have to understand that Texas maintains dichotomies that almost no other state in the south can. Our Capital City is arguable the most liberal city in the Southwestern United States. Houston, our big bad oil town, has had a Democrat for a mayor for the last couple of terms and just elected the first openly gay mayor to a town of over 1 mil.
We are also world leaders in medicine and tech. Which is why this provision:
Our economy is profoundly strong. We haven't broken 10% unemployment rate since the beginning of the recession. We have no state income tax, and our
People think we are big polluters, and that may be true to a point, but we are also one of the only states to have emissions tests required in almost every major city (there is no smog in Houston!)
Our education system is not good, however we (houston) have the highest teacher salary relative to standard of living in almost anywhere in the US.
None of this is to say that Texas is perfect, we definitely have problems, but most people profoundly misunderstand the real nature of Texas.
That said, I am embarrassed by multiple parts of the GOP platform, and I will most definitely be voting for Bill White for governor. He is a moderate democrat that is perfectly suited to become the next governer of Texas, and based off of what he has done for Houston I can't for a second doubt he will push Texas even farther forward without making any of the boneheaded economic policies that democrats seem to push forwards everywhere else.
Anywho....
To those that think that Texas is a backwards state because of this, you have to understand that Texas maintains dichotomies that almost no other state in the south can. Our Capital City is arguable the most liberal city in the Southwestern United States. Houston, our big bad oil town, has had a Democrat for a mayor for the last couple of terms and just elected the first openly gay mayor to a town of over 1 mil.
We are also world leaders in medicine and tech. Which is why this provision:
is embarrassing, since modern cancer research is coming to the realization that this is the only way to fight cancer.Gene Manufacturing – We support a ban on research that alters human DNA in living human beings at any stage of life, including the altering of artificial, manufactured, and natural genes and chromosomes
Our economy is profoundly strong. We haven't broken 10% unemployment rate since the beginning of the recession. We have no state income tax, and our
People think we are big polluters, and that may be true to a point, but we are also one of the only states to have emissions tests required in almost every major city (there is no smog in Houston!)
Our education system is not good, however we (houston) have the highest teacher salary relative to standard of living in almost anywhere in the US.
None of this is to say that Texas is perfect, we definitely have problems, but most people profoundly misunderstand the real nature of Texas.
That said, I am embarrassed by multiple parts of the GOP platform, and I will most definitely be voting for Bill White for governor. He is a moderate democrat that is perfectly suited to become the next governer of Texas, and based off of what he has done for Houston I can't for a second doubt he will push Texas even farther forward without making any of the boneheaded economic policies that democrats seem to push forwards everywhere else.
#69
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Really makes you wish that 3rd parties were more viable, and not seemingly dominated by more extreme versions of the Big Two.I am embarrassed by multiple parts of the GOP platform
#70
Krisken
Or crazy in their own right.
We need a party of 'Meh'
Where do you stand on abortion? Meh
Gay rights? Meh
The environment? Meh
Wait, is there anything you feel strongly about? Yeah, lunch.
Krisken
Really makes you wish that 3rd parties were more viable, and not seemingly dominated by more extreme versions of the Big Two.[/QUOTE]I am embarrassed by multiple parts of the GOP platform
Or crazy in their own right.
We need a party of 'Meh'
Where do you stand on abortion? Meh
Gay rights? Meh
The environment? Meh
Wait, is there anything you feel strongly about? Yeah, lunch.
#71
Espy
Espy
I could vote for that. Who doesn't like lunch?
#72
Krisken
Krisken
The party of 'Meh' acknowledges there are hot-button issues. They just don't care.
I think this party would have been more successful in the 90's.
I think this party would have been more successful in the 90's.
#73
Denbrought
Or crazy in their own right.
We need a party of 'Meh'
Where do you stand on abortion? Meh
Gay rights? Meh
The environment? Meh
Wait, is there anything you feel strongly about? Yeah, lunch.[/QUOTE]
And their young-age platforms could be aptly named The Jaded Youths or something, I guess. Eh.
Denbrought
Really makes you wish that 3rd parties were more viable, and not seemingly dominated by more extreme versions of the Big Two.[/QUOTE]I am embarrassed by multiple parts of the GOP platform
Or crazy in their own right.
We need a party of 'Meh'
Where do you stand on abortion? Meh
Gay rights? Meh
The environment? Meh
Wait, is there anything you feel strongly about? Yeah, lunch.[/QUOTE]
And their young-age platforms could be aptly named The Jaded Youths or something, I guess. Eh.
#74
Krisken
Krisken
Their slogan
"You know nothing will get done anyways."
"You know nothing will get done anyways."
#75
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
That party already got 43% in the last election.
#76
GasBandit
GasBandit
So I'm late to the party, but I'll just chime in with a few bullet points -
The Texas GOP is a pretty wacky bunch all right... and you should see the Texas Democrats!
All of the personal responsibility with none of the theocracy and homophobia.
- Ban gay marriage = bad.
- Ban abortion = bad.
- Reform/revise/repeal patriot act = good.
- There's no bureaucrat like a Texas Bureaucrat.
- I just learned today you have to have a concealed-carry permit to pretty much have a gun ANYWHERE in your car at any time in Texas, so stick that in your "Texas is Anarchy and Guns" pipe and smoke it.
- Texas haters can go gargle dicks. Or rather, go BACK to gargling dicks
The Texas GOP is a pretty wacky bunch all right... and you should see the Texas Democrats!
All of the personal responsibility with none of the theocracy and homophobia.
#77
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Is it wrong that your image makes me think of a basketball team logo? Because I swear to god, for a second I thought the Statue of Liberty was trying to dunk.
#78
Covar
The Libertarian party would be ok with that, as long as it was her choice to dunk.
Covar
Is it wrong that your image makes me think of a basketball team logo? Because I swear to god, for a second I thought the Statue of Liberty was trying to dunk.[/QUOTE]
The Libertarian party would be ok with that, as long as it was her choice to dunk.
#79
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
But where is the compassion for human beings? Or common sense?
#80
Krisken
Krisken
Compassion is for suckers. That's the lesson of Jesus.But where is the compassion for human beings? Or common sense?
#81
GasBandit
GasBandit
Libertarianism is the most compassionate. It grants you your freedom to forge your own destiny instead of go to seed in the prison of good intentions that statists inflict upon you.But where is the compassion for human beings?
Yeah, like you'd know that if you saw it.Or common sense?
#82
Krisken
Krisken
Man, some people can rationalize anything!
#83
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
Look, I just need a political party that supports the existence of a fire department and police force. That's all I ask.
#84
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Fuck you, hippie!Look, I just need a political party that supports the existence of a fire department and police force. That's all I ask.
#85
Troll
Troll
It's socialist bastards like you that are ruining this country.Look, I just need a political party that supports the existence of a fire department and police force. That's all I ask.
#86
Necronic
Republican - Legislating Morality and enforcing police state laws, but high levels of economic freedom
Democrat - Steal from the rich and give to the poor, but little legislation of morality and generally against too much police power.
The good thing is that White is a nice moderate democrat, definitely someone who used to run an oil town.
Necronic
You gonna vote for Bill White? Please tell me you aren't throwing your vote away on some libertarian shmoe. Don't get me wrong, I am a libertarian too, but as a libertarian you get a choice.So I'm late to the party, but I'll just chime in with a few bullet points -
- Ban gay marriage = bad.
- Ban abortion = bad.
- Reform/revise/repeal patriot act = good.
- There's no bureaucrat like a Texas Bureaucrat.
- I just learned today you have to have a concealed-carry permit to pretty much have a gun ANYWHERE in your car at any time in Texas, so stick that in your "Texas is Anarchy and Guns" pipe and smoke it.
- Texas haters can go gargle dicks. Or rather, go BACK to gargling dicks
The Texas GOP is a pretty wacky bunch all right... and you should see the Texas Democrats!
All of the personal responsibility with none of the theocracy and homophobia.
Republican - Legislating Morality and enforcing police state laws, but high levels of economic freedom
Democrat - Steal from the rich and give to the poor, but little legislation of morality and generally against too much police power.
The good thing is that White is a nice moderate democrat, definitely someone who used to run an oil town.
#87
GasBandit
GasBandit
I don't think it counts as "compassion" if the "giving" is done with the government's monopoly on the use of deadly force poking you in the back of the ribs reminding you to get out your checkbook. Liberals are big on socialism, conservatives are big on private charity.Man, some people can rationalize anything!
A lot of people confuse Libertarianism for Anarchism, but it isn't the same. The Libertarian party still wants police departments, fire departments, public libraries and schools and all that stuff. They just aren't into telling people what to do with their money, their dick, or their soul.Look, I just need a political party that supports the existence of a fire department and police force. That's all I ask.
I haven't decided yet who to vote for in the gubernatorial election, because Kathy Glass hasn't chimed in on all the issues yet. But as long as she doesn't say something stupid and contrary to Libertarianism, like wanting to ban all abortion or something, she'll probably get my vote. I'll definitely be voting Libertarian for any legislative positions that come up, however. I don't care how moderate Chet Edwards is, he's keeping the Speaker title in front of Nancy Pelosi's name, which has to stop. I'm hoping Wayne Allyn Root gets the presidential nomination in 2012.You gonna vote for Bill White? Please tell me you aren't throwing your vote away on some libertarian shmoe. Don't get me wrong, I am a libertarian too, but as a libertarian you get a choice.
Republican - Legislating Morality and enforcing police state laws, but high levels of economic freedom
Democrat - Steal from the rich and give to the poor, but little legislation of morality and generally against too much police power.
The good thing is that White is a nice moderate democrat, definitely someone who used to run an oil town.
#88
Norris
I voted Libertarian in the last presidential election, and I doubt I will ever do so again. Bob Barr is just as much of a dick as a Libertarian as he was as a Republican. If an intolerant jerk can get their nomination, then they can't get my vote. (To head off potential argument: "live and let live" is not defined as "I laugh at your religion and wouldn't want to serve with you in the military". Matter of fact, its kinda the opposite).
Norris
I don't think it counts as "compassion" if the "giving" is done with the government's monopoly on the use of deadly force poking you in the back of the ribs reminding you to get out your checkbook. Liberals are big on socialism, conservatives are big on private charity.[/QUOTE]But the problem is that private charity has no where near the built in resources to find and help people in need that the government does. Besides, the simple fact is that it seems (to me, and I might be wrong) that Americans, rich or middle class, are more interested in sending charitable contributions to the other side of the world.Man, some people can rationalize anything!
But all those things you listed ARE telling people what to do with their money. And I think many libertarians would do away with public libraries and schools, completely ignoring the fact that it would put education in the hands of the rich.A lot of people confuse Libertarianism for Anarchism, but it isn't the same. The Libertarian party still wants police departments, fire departments, public libraries and schools and all that stuff. They just aren't into telling people what to do with their money, their dick, or their soul.Look, I just need a political party that supports the existence of a fire department and police force. That's all I ask.
I voted Libertarian in the last presidential election, and I doubt I will ever do so again. Bob Barr is just as much of a dick as a Libertarian as he was as a Republican. If an intolerant jerk can get their nomination, then they can't get my vote. (To head off potential argument: "live and let live" is not defined as "I laugh at your religion and wouldn't want to serve with you in the military". Matter of fact, its kinda the opposite).
#89
GasBandit
You better have some numbers to back that up, because that sounds like something you pulled entirely out of your preconceptions. The fact is, private charities actually do very well at what they do because they ARE set up to do it. Especially at the local level. I know my community, for example, has multiple local charities which specialize in dealing with poverty, homelessness, drug and child abuse right here. They get lots of contributions, help lots of people, and have much less overhead because they're not centrally managed out of DC or anywhere else.
Now, to your former point - Libertarianism. Is. Not. Anarchy. It's not even a form (or lack of) government - it's the idea that government should be as small as possible, being only used for that which it is absolutely necessary for - like fire departments, police, armies, and yes, libraries. Schools are another issue altogether - for another thread. But Libertarians don't want to disband the government and cancel all government-provided services, they just want to stop government from doing the things that it has no business doing - like telling you on what days you can buy liquor, or telling you what cars you can and can't buy, or forcing you to sell your house so that they can build something there that they think will bring in more tax revenue... or refusing to let a . The list of government abuses goes on and on. There's plenty of fat to be trimmed before you worry about cutting into the muscle, much less bone structure of government.
GasBandit
I don't think it counts as "compassion" if the "giving" is done with the government's monopoly on the use of deadly force poking you in the back of the ribs reminding you to get out your checkbook. Liberals are big on socialism, conservatives are big on private charity.[/QUOTE]But the problem is that private charity has no where near the built in resources to find and help people in need that the government does. Besides, the simple fact is that it seems (to me, and I might be wrong) that Americans, rich or middle class, are more interested in sending charitable contributions to the other side of the world. [/quote]Man, some people can rationalize anything!
You better have some numbers to back that up, because that sounds like something you pulled entirely out of your preconceptions. The fact is, private charities actually do very well at what they do because they ARE set up to do it. Especially at the local level. I know my community, for example, has multiple local charities which specialize in dealing with poverty, homelessness, drug and child abuse right here. They get lots of contributions, help lots of people, and have much less overhead because they're not centrally managed out of DC or anywhere else.
Why is he a dick, because he is made uncomfortable by the phoney baloney spiritualism that is marginalized even by the phoney baloney organized religions? Note that his statement is not that paganism should be banned, or used as a basis of military or social discrimination, just that he has a negative opinion about it. This is the dichotomy that so many statists of both flavors (left and right) cannot grasp - that personal beliefs and policy decisions can and must be separate from each other.But all those things you listed ARE telling people what to do with their money. And I think many libertarians would do away with public libraries and schools, completely ignoring the fact that it would put education in the hands of the rich.A lot of people confuse Libertarianism for Anarchism, but it isn't the same. The Libertarian party still wants police departments, fire departments, public libraries and schools and all that stuff. They just aren't into telling people what to do with their money, their dick, or their soul.Look, I just need a political party that supports the existence of a fire department and police force. That's all I ask.
I voted Libertarian in the last presidential election, and I doubt I will ever do so again. Bob Barr is just as much of a dick as a Libertarian as he was as a Republican. If an intolerant jerk can get their nomination, then they can't get my vote. (To head off potential argument: "live and let live" is not defined as "I laugh at your religion and wouldn't want to serve with you in the military". Matter of fact, its kinda the opposite).
Now, to your former point - Libertarianism. Is. Not. Anarchy. It's not even a form (or lack of) government - it's the idea that government should be as small as possible, being only used for that which it is absolutely necessary for - like fire departments, police, armies, and yes, libraries. Schools are another issue altogether - for another thread. But Libertarians don't want to disband the government and cancel all government-provided services, they just want to stop government from doing the things that it has no business doing - like telling you on what days you can buy liquor, or telling you what cars you can and can't buy, or forcing you to sell your house so that they can build something there that they think will bring in more tax revenue... or refusing to let a . The list of government abuses goes on and on. There's plenty of fat to be trimmed before you worry about cutting into the muscle, much less bone structure of government.
#90
Necronic
Necronic
I'm still surprised that you would intentionally vote for a third party in this election though. Rick Perry really needs to go, before he can put in his ridiculous trans texas corridor, and Bill White is a very solid democrat for a libertarian to get behind.
He's strongly moderate, so strongly moderate that he has been called soft by the GOP, and even members of his own party. And then there is this awesome quote:
The fact is that if the independants don't work with the democrats then we will never get rid of Rick Perry, and that should be the number one goal. Remember, this isn't Harry Reed, this is a Texas Democrat, hell, this is a Houston Democrat.
He's strongly moderate, so strongly moderate that he has been called soft by the GOP, and even members of his own party. And then there is this awesome quote:
He is also strongly financially conservative. I mean hell, he ran Houston. You can't do that as a bleeding heart. Somehow he ran one of the biggest industry towns in the world and actually improved air quality without damaging the businesses.Bill White on the GOP said:The Christian Coalition has taken over and made it the party of zealots," he said then.
The fact is that if the independants don't work with the democrats then we will never get rid of Rick Perry, and that should be the number one goal. Remember, this isn't Harry Reed, this is a Texas Democrat, hell, this is a Houston Democrat.
#91
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
I am no card-carrying Democrat by any means, but I am hella voting for Bill White.
#92
GasBandit
GasBandit
Well, I'm not set in stone, so I may decide to vote for White. I just hate promulgating the two-party paradigm, where you HAVE to vote for one or the other. That's an entirely fictitious creation that only self-reinforces. If we could get enough people voting for so-called "third" parties (no matter how many third parties there are), we'd all be a lot better off.I'm still surprised that you would intentionally vote for a third party in this election though.
#93
Norris
You better have some numbers to back that up, because that sounds like something you pulled entirely out of your preconceptions. The fact is, private charities actually do very well at what they do because they ARE set up to do it. Especially at the local level. I know my community, for example, has multiple local charities which specialize in dealing with poverty, homelessness, drug and child abuse right here. They get lots of contributions, help lots of people, and have much less overhead because they're not centrally managed out of DC or anywhere else.[/QUOTE]I withdraw that point because you are right, it is based on preconception. But I see ads for stuff like Christian Childrens' Fund, telethons for disasters in far off nations, and read about how much money Bill Gates gives to fight AIDs in Africa (all worthy causes, to be sure) a hell of a lot more than I ever hear about people raising money to provide healthcare or housing to the poor in THIS country.
Norris
I don't think it counts as "compassion" if the "giving" is done with the government's monopoly on the use of deadly force poking you in the back of the ribs reminding you to get out your checkbook. Liberals are big on socialism, conservatives are big on private charity.[/QUOTE]But the problem is that private charity has no where near the built in resources to find and help people in need that the government does. Besides, the simple fact is that it seems (to me, and I might be wrong) that Americans, rich or middle class, are more interested in sending charitable contributions to the other side of the world. [/quote]Man, some people can rationalize anything!
You better have some numbers to back that up, because that sounds like something you pulled entirely out of your preconceptions. The fact is, private charities actually do very well at what they do because they ARE set up to do it. Especially at the local level. I know my community, for example, has multiple local charities which specialize in dealing with poverty, homelessness, drug and child abuse right here. They get lots of contributions, help lots of people, and have much less overhead because they're not centrally managed out of DC or anywhere else.[/QUOTE]I withdraw that point because you are right, it is based on preconception. But I see ads for stuff like Christian Childrens' Fund, telethons for disasters in far off nations, and read about how much money Bill Gates gives to fight AIDs in Africa (all worthy causes, to be sure) a hell of a lot more than I ever hear about people raising money to provide healthcare or housing to the poor in THIS country.
He is a dick because is saying that religion of soldiers is sillier than his own beliefs (it ain't) and the quote "one might legitimately wonder just how far such tolerance should extend" sounds a hell of a lot like it would influence his policies. Someone who claims to be libertarian should not be questioning how far religious tolerance should extend unless laws are being broken.Why is he a dick, because he is made uncomfortable by the phoney baloney spiritualism that is marginalized even by the phoney baloney organized religions? Note that his statement is not that paganism should be banned, or used as a basis of military or social discrimination, just that he has a negative opinion about it. This is the dichotomy that so many statists of both flavors (left and right) cannot grasp - that personal beliefs and policy decisions can and must be separate from each other.
But there are already private military corporations, private security agencies, private ambulance services, and even privately owned libraries. My question to a strict libertarian such as yourself is why does the line exist with these on the government side of things when private alternatives are not only possible but already existent?Now, to your former point - Libertarianism. Is. Not. Anarchy. It's not even a form (or lack of) government - it's the idea that government should be as small as possible, being only used for that which it is absolutely necessary for - like fire departments, police, armies, and yes, libraries.
Fair enough, I suppose. But why the hell private institutions would open to provide schooling for people who have not the money to pay nor the population to make it cost effective is my big question on that.Schools are another issue altogether - for another thread.
A standpoint that can be awfully subjective.But Libertarians don't want to disband the government and cancel all government-provided services, they just want to stop government from doing the things that it has no business doing -
Agreed on this point. Either a jurisdiction should be either "wet" or "dry", not change based on days of the week.like telling you on what days you can buy liquor,
Um, when have they done that? I mean, I live in the Detroit Metro Area, the car capital. Other than emissions standards...I don't know of which you speak.or telling you what cars you can and can't buy,
Pretty sure you'd need a constitutional amendment or a very specific Supreme Court ruling to restrict eminent domain.or forcing you to sell your house so that they can build something there that they think will bring in more tax revenue...
A what?or refusing to let a .
But what you consider fat and what someone else considers fat may vary wildly. I've found that libertarians (I used to identify as one) tend to be REALLY harsh and bordering on social darwinistic and naive when it comes to concepts like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or the effectiveness of private charity. I've also met more than a couple who believed the police to be brutal fascists. So, while YOU may not be a nigh-anarchist, plenty of folks (in my admittedly limited experience) who claim to share your beliefs are.The list of government abuses goes on and on. There's plenty of fat to be trimmed before you worry about cutting into the muscle, much less bone structure of government.
#94
Necronic
I hear you but its a very difficult (and potentially dangerous) agenda to go after. Generally speaking a third party will draw votes away from the party they are closest too. This means that by pushing the third party concept you are actually hurting the progress of your other political beliefs. Case in point would be the 2k elections, but many many other examples exist (Strom Thurmand).
The way I see it the legislative branch is the place to push the third party concept, as its not an "all or nothing" situation. If you loose, you will only have given away 1 seat among hundreds to the party you are least favorable too. In the executive branches, when you loose (and you will) you loose the entire branch to the main opposition.
In the executive branch the place to fight is in the primaries. Ron Paul's support in the Republican primaries arguably did more to push certain concepts of the libertarian party than any vote cast for Bob Barr.
Necronic
Well, I'm not set in stone, so I may decide to vote for White. I just hate promulgating the two-party paradigm, where you HAVE to vote for one or the other. That's an entirely fictitious creation that only self-reinforces. If we could get enough people voting for so-called "third" parties (no matter how many third parties there are), we'd all be a lot better off.[/QUOTE]I'm still surprised that you would intentionally vote for a third party in this election though.
I hear you but its a very difficult (and potentially dangerous) agenda to go after. Generally speaking a third party will draw votes away from the party they are closest too. This means that by pushing the third party concept you are actually hurting the progress of your other political beliefs. Case in point would be the 2k elections, but many many other examples exist (Strom Thurmand).
The way I see it the legislative branch is the place to push the third party concept, as its not an "all or nothing" situation. If you loose, you will only have given away 1 seat among hundreds to the party you are least favorable too. In the executive branches, when you loose (and you will) you loose the entire branch to the main opposition.
In the executive branch the place to fight is in the primaries. Ron Paul's support in the Republican primaries arguably did more to push certain concepts of the libertarian party than any vote cast for Bob Barr.
#95
GasBandit
2) Security Agencies - For a similar reason to PMCs, and going further - I don't know about where you are, but where I am, Sheriffs are elected and the Chief of Police is appointed by and answers to the Mayor's office (though I've heard some places, such as in parts of Louisiana, Chief of Police is also an elected position). As with the Military, Law Enforcement has to be directly answerable to the elected legislators and executives to ensure accountability in so broad a mission.
3) Private Ambulances - I don't see a problem with private ambulances, or making health care in general more privatized. It's a service that can be provided in competition, unlike the above two.
4) Private Libraries - Yes, there are some, but there needs to be public ones too to ensure access. Plus, a public library forces nobody to read or learn, and is relatively inexpensive so far as government spending goes.
GasBandit
Wondering how far religious tolerance could extend is a valid concern, when some religions require adherence to tenets that can become dangers to health and safety in a military setting. Just as a f'rinstance, GIs don't shear their hair because it looks butch... but there are religions where cutting your hair or facial hair is discouraged. Also, the Fort Hood massacre happened BECAUSE a blind eye was turned to an obvious murderous intent, because of fear of being called religiously or culturally intolerant.He is a dick because is saying that religion of soldiers is sillier than his own beliefs (it ain't) and the quote "one might legitimately wonder just how far such tolerance should extend" sounds a hell of a lot like it would influence his policies. Someone who claims to be libertarian should not be questioning how far religious tolerance should extend unless laws are being broken.
1) Private Military Corporations - first of all, because the nation needs its own army. A nation without an army doesn't remain a nation for long, and it isn't prudent to put all your eggs in a mercenary's basket.But there are already private military corporations, private security agencies, private ambulance services, and even privately owned libraries. My question to a strict libertarian such as yourself is why does the line exist with these on the government side of things when private alternatives are not only possible but already existent?
2) Security Agencies - For a similar reason to PMCs, and going further - I don't know about where you are, but where I am, Sheriffs are elected and the Chief of Police is appointed by and answers to the Mayor's office (though I've heard some places, such as in parts of Louisiana, Chief of Police is also an elected position). As with the Military, Law Enforcement has to be directly answerable to the elected legislators and executives to ensure accountability in so broad a mission.
3) Private Ambulances - I don't see a problem with private ambulances, or making health care in general more privatized. It's a service that can be provided in competition, unlike the above two.
4) Private Libraries - Yes, there are some, but there needs to be public ones too to ensure access. Plus, a public library forces nobody to read or learn, and is relatively inexpensive so far as government spending goes.
In some places, they already are. And many privatized school systems in europe are showing better results for less money spent per student than we spend here. I don't want to divert this thread, but a good intermediary step here would be school vouchers - let the parents pick the school, have the money follow the child, and watch competition improve the quality of education... because what makes capitalism such a great thing for the consumer is competition.Fair enough, I suppose. But why the hell private institutions would open to provide schooling for people who have not the money to pay nor the population to make it cost effective is my big question on that.Schools are another issue altogether - for another thread.
That's why we have a constitution.A standpoint that can be awfully subjective.But Libertarians don't want to disband the government and cancel all government-provided services, they just want to stop government from doing the things that it has no business doing -
Um, when have they done that? I mean, I live in the Detroit Metro Area, the car capital. Other than emissions standards...I don't know of which you speak.[/quote] Well, as you point out, they already control what you can buy by decreeing what can be sold. You know why there are no station wagons any more? I'll give you a hint, it's not because people stopped wanting station wagons. The answer is CAFE standards. Enter the SUV.or telling you what cars you can and can't buy,
We've had a very bad Supreme court ruling on exactly that. Kelo vs. New London. Eminent Domain is supposed to be for things like rail lines, roads or military bases... not for private development. It sent such shockwaves through the nation that many states enacted their own ED amendment laws to explicitly prohibit use of ED to benefit private developers.Pretty sure you'd need a constitutional amendment or a very specific Supreme Court ruling to restrict eminent domain.or forcing you to sell your house so that they can build something there that they think will bring in more tax revenue...
Sorry, that was my fault.. I meant to link the story about the taiwanese oil-sucking boat that the federal government wouldn't give permission to do its things because 1% of the oil might slip back out through the water exhaust, and the Coast Guard had to count their life preservers and such. But I went looking for the link, couldn't find it, and then got sidetracked.A what?or refusing to let a .
Anything not described in the constitution, its amendments or acts derived directly from them are pretty safe to call "fat." We can later determine if local government oversteps their bounds on certain issues - at least their reach is limited by jurisdiction for the time being. But the most egregious abuses come from the Federal Level.But what you consider fat and what someone else considers fat may vary wildly.
Well, there are nuts in every mix, sure. After all, look at Democrats and Republicans. The more ways we split power in government, in my opinion, the better. I'm not saying the Libertarian party should be the ONLY party. I'm saying two is too few. I'd like to see five. Yes, even a socialist party. Then we could debate the merit of their ideas openly on the national stage, rather them having to watermelon their way through the democrat party's eco-guerrilla wing.I've found that libertarians (I used to identify as one) tend to be REALLY harsh and bordering on social darwinistic and naive when it comes to concepts like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or the effectiveness of private charity. I've also met more than a couple who believed the police to be brutal fascists. So, while YOU may not be a nigh-anarchist, plenty of folks (in my admittedly limited experience) who claim to share your beliefs are.
#96
Necronic
Necronic
I was listening to NPR this morning and they were talking about the third parties in Germany, and it got me thinking. One major thing about the third parties there and the ones here is that there they form coalitions. Here the third parties simply play spoiler.
What kind of bargaining power could a major third party like the libertarians or the green party have with one of the big 2? Like if I said to the dems "give us these 3 items in the party platform and remove this other one and we will back you." The bigger third parties have a fair amount of members, bob barr took what, 0.5%?
When it comes to the executive branch elections, I think that is the only legitimate move by a third party.
What kind of bargaining power could a major third party like the libertarians or the green party have with one of the big 2? Like if I said to the dems "give us these 3 items in the party platform and remove this other one and we will back you." The bigger third parties have a fair amount of members, bob barr took what, 0.5%?
When it comes to the executive branch elections, I think that is the only legitimate move by a third party.
#97
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
But there are no legitimate 3rd parties. If they throw there weight anywhere it will be back to the BIG-2.
You really can not compare American politics with the geographically small nations of Europe. Every election in an European Nation is a local election. So smaller concerns, one issue parties are viable. The US needs broad catch all parties to get the needed votes to put an executive into office.
You really can not compare American politics with the geographically small nations of Europe. Every election in an European Nation is a local election. So smaller concerns, one issue parties are viable. The US needs broad catch all parties to get the needed votes to put an executive into office.
#98
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
A lot of parliamentary systems are like that; their 3rd-parties are based less on acrimonious opposition to the ruling parties and more on focusing on key issues that are important to their supporters, which gives them flexibility as far as their negotiating with the ruling parties since they stay very open to political positions that their supporters don't care as much about.
In this country, for whatever reason, our 3rd parties tend to have vague, yet widely encompassing platforms with positions that are simply more extreme, in one direction or another, than the positions on those same issues of the Big Two. So not only are they often less compelling to voters, the Big Two know that the 3rd-parties are simply part of their fringe instead of a genuine voting bloc, and believe (justifiably) that they don't need to court those voters back into the fold.
EDIT: 6pack said is shorter.
In this country, for whatever reason, our 3rd parties tend to have vague, yet widely encompassing platforms with positions that are simply more extreme, in one direction or another, than the positions on those same issues of the Big Two. So not only are they often less compelling to voters, the Big Two know that the 3rd-parties are simply part of their fringe instead of a genuine voting bloc, and believe (justifiably) that they don't need to court those voters back into the fold.
EDIT: 6pack said is shorter.
#99
GasBandit
GasBandit
America is at that awkward stage where it's too late to affect change within the system, and too early to just start shooting the bastards.
#100
Krisken
Krisken
Didn't you write that exact same line of bullpucky in another thread?
#101
GasBandit
GasBandit
No, I said it in IRC yesterday. I didn't come up with it though, I forget where I got it. But it's true.Didn't you write that exact same line of bullpucky in another thread?